Big let Down!! - Armthorpe Falconry

[AlexB]

Nearly a year ago I ordered £150 worth of kit from Armthorpe Falconry all AI kit. After 10 months of both myself and Sandy at Armthrope Falconry trying to locate the lost package it has now come to completion. Because Armthorpe Falconry did not insure the package being sent and apparently because I didnt ask for it to be insured (I thought this was the senders responsibility). I am only getting a £20 refund of my original £150 spent. Explanation given was it was my fault for not requesting ther package to be insured. All I can say is this is lousy customer service at best. Lesson learnt in future i will ensure i ask for insurance costs to be added on anything i order, but will never order from this company again and will defo not be recommending it out to anyone.

Alex

[TLDWB]

I would have thought the sender would take full responsibilty for the goods.

Tom

[Sean White]

We live and learn. Likewise I also thought it was senders responsibility to cover insurance costs with anything being mailed. I'm sure you've checked your legal rights with this incident but all the same I'm still suprised.

[Giant Panda]

Nearly a year ago I ordered £150 worth of kit from Armthorpe Falconry all AI kit. After 10 months of both myself and Sandy at Armthrope Falconry trying to locate the lost package it has now come to completion. Because Armthorpe Falconry did not insure the package being sent and apparently because I didnt ask for it to be insured (I thought this was the senders responsibility). I am only getting a £20 refund of my original £150 spent. Explanation given was it was my fault for not requesting ther package to be insured. All I can say is this is lousy customer service at best. Lesson learnt in future i will ensure i ask for insurance costs to be added on anything i order, but will never order from this company again and will defo not be recommending it out to anyone.

Alex

We send a lot through the mail and various delivery systems, and we offer the option to insure the goods every time.if the customer declines then it's their loss.

Jim

[Gozzhawk]

i have in the past sent off semen with royal mail , and insuring is done as you send it. sounds like excuses to me

[AlexB]

We send a lot through the mail and various delivery systems, and we offer the option to insure the goods every time.if the customer declines then it's their loss.

Jim

I was quoted £5 for P&P to germany, now I know everytime I send things to the Uk I always insure the package. There was no mention of insurance and as I have now been advised by Armthorpe it was my responsibity to ask for it?

Alex

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi Alex
Surely the problem is with the postal service , not Armthorpe ? I am constantly suggesting folk insure parcels, but as often as not they decline to spend the extra? after all none of us like paying for insurance, but of course we all never need insurance until it is too late if that makes sense?
I know Chris ( not sure if I know Bryn , but am sure I met him before) and he is one of the real good honest guys in falconry... a true Gentleman in every sense of the word. Have you not spoken to them about this at length before posting on here?

[BlueBoy]

Nearly a year ago I ordered £150 worth of kit from Armthorpe Falconry all AI kit. After 10 months of both myself and Sandy at Armthrope Falconry trying to locate the lost package it has now come to completion. Because Armthorpe Falconry did not insure the package being sent and apparently because I didnt ask for it to be insured (I thought this was the senders responsibility). I am only getting a £20 refund of my original £150 spent. Explanation given was it was my fault for not requesting ther package to be insured. All I can say is this is lousy customer service at best. Lesson learnt in future i will ensure i ask for insurance costs to be added on anything i order, but will never order from this company again and will defo not be recommending it out to anyone.

Alex

Youv'e lost £130, but this falconry Co will lose alot more if thats how they treat customers. Have you tried consumer direct.

[AlexB]

Youv'e lost £130, but this falconry Co will lose alot more if thats how they treat customers. Have you tried consumer direct.

Not yet but thanks for the prompt.

Alex

[PenelopeP]

I believe with Royal Mail (if thats who it was sent with) The standard coverage for a package is £36 (not £20) Not much good to you I know when you have lost £150 but its still a little more than you have been quoted. Also I would have thought that if you do not have in writing from them that any loses will be down to the customer if they do not request insurance then the company sending them should be responsible for any loses.

Why do you think sellers always stipulate this on Ebay :yawinkle:

[CopperBarn]

I'd just like to say that although I do sympathise with your situation and it is very frustrating when things like this happen, I would like to defend those at Armthorpe falconry as I have been there on many occasions and they have beautiful birds, with immaculate facilities, I have always recieved a warm welcome and a cup ot tea and the friendliest conversation and I can guarentee this was probably a one off and WOULD reccommend Armthorpe to anyone.
I do sympathise though.

Cheers

Anna

[Kennelre]

The postal service is not to be trusted and stuff gets lost.
Because of this possibility some 'sellers' insist on insurance before they are prepared to send because they just don't want their reputation damaged by messy situations. Others leave the option of insurance to the buyer and the buyer therefore takes the risk.
If there is 'proof of sending' in this instance then the 'seller' can't actually be held responsible for the loss.
Fairness and legality won't make anyone actually feel any better about it though.


...Rene.

[AlexB]

Hi Alex
Surely the problem is with the postal service , not Armthorpe ? I am constantly suggesting folk insure parcels, but as often as not they decline to spend the extra? after all none of us like paying for insurance, but of course we all never need insurance until it is too late if that makes sense?
I know Chris ( not sure if I know Bryn , but am sure I met him before) and he is one of the real good honest guys in falconry... a true Gentleman in every sense of the word. Have you not spoken to them about this at length before posting on here?

I spoke to Sandy who phoned me on behalf of Bryn, sorry but to be honest i have got fed up of chasing this for 10 months. i have wasted more than £20 on phone calls to the place. It was stated in the conversation that Bryn is happy to refund the £20 and no more. I have no doubt about Chris, Sandy or Bryn but at the end of the day I was buying in good faith and now I am £130 out of pocket.

At no time was insuring the package offered or suggested so as far as i was aware it was their responsibility not the postal service to ensure the contents against the possible loss. I was quoted £5 p&p and thats what was paid.

Alex

[AlexB]

I'd just like to say that although I do sympathise with your situation and it is very frustrating when things like this happen, I would like to defend those at Armthorpe falconry as I have been there on many occasions and they have beautiful birds, with immaculate facilities, I have always recieved a warm welcome and a cup ot tea and the friendliest conversation and I can guarentee this was probably a one off and WOULD reccommend Armthorpe to anyone.
I do sympathise though.

Cheers

Anna

As I said I in no way doubt anyone at Armthorpe, but its their customer care that is in question. I have only spoken to Bryn on the phone and he was more than helpfull.

Alex

[AlexB]

The postal service is not to be trusted and stuff gets lost.
Because of this possibility some 'sellers' insist on insurance before they are prepared to send because they just don't want their reputation damaged by messy situations. Others leave the option of insurance to the buyer and the buyer therefore takes the risk.
If there is 'proof of sending' in this instance then the 'seller' can't actually be held responsible for the loss.
Fairness and legality won't make anyone actually feel any better about it though.


...Rene.

Rene,

Yes Armthorpe have proof of posting, but surely if no offer of insurance was given it is their responsibility till its delivered. Why would any company send goods overseas without insurance or at least offer it as part of the costs?

Alex

[Ramberandt]

I would have thought the sender would take full responsibilty for the goods.

Tom
thats right...

[Kennelre]

Rene,

Yes Armthorpe have proof of posting, but surely if no offer of insurance was given it is their responsibility till its delivered. Why would any company send goods overseas without insurance or at least offer it as part of the costs?

Alex

Nope...it ceased to be their responsibility once the package hit the postal system. They can prove it was posted and that fulfills their obligation....unless insurance was directly discussed. Sadly, insurance cannot be assumed to be integral to the quoted postal charge unless that was clearly established prior to posting.:(
At least...I firmly believe this to be so.


...Rene.

[Dave G]

sorry to hear you lost £130 :( couldnt you contact royal mail as they have proof it was posted and lost by them and see the outcome ??

[CopperBarn]

Is it really necessary to suggest to other falconers not to use Armthorpe on an open forum? It seems a bit bitter and harsh. Obviously if id had been a case of being deliberately conned by a breeder then definately publicise it to the maximum but this is merely a case of the Royal Mail cocking up again, not anyone at Armthorpe out to pull the wool over anyones eyes.
At least we have all learnt now to insure our packages whether the option is offered or not?

[Redeye]

sorry to hear you lost £130 :( couldnt you contact royal mail as they have proof it was posted and lost by them and see the outcome ??
I doubt they would be the slightest bit interested.....and remember it is not necesarrily Royal Mail as this package was going to Germany so could just as well be Deutsche Post or whoever.

Don't supposed you paid by credit card, not sure if they pay up in trhese instances?

[BlueBoy]

One would think Armthorpe falconry would do the right thing, they will be losing £££££s as we speak.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Thats as may be ,but I can see Chris at least ( and presumably Bryn) have not seen this yet?

[CopperBarn]

Thats as may be ,but I can see Chris at least ( and presumably Bryn) have not seen this yet?

I don't think they have but if I was them I'd be mighty p*ssed off!

[BlueBoy]

Sometimes you need to bite the bullit, do whats neccesary and reep the good publicity.

[PenelopeP]

I doubt they would be the slightest bit interested.....and remember it is not necesarrily Royal Mail as this package was going to Germany so could just as well be Deutsche Post or whoever.

Don't supposed you paid by credit card, not sure if they pay up in trhese instances?

You may be onto something there. Im sure if you have insurance on your credit cards they do pay out if goods from abroad are lost.

[CopperBarn]

One would think Armthorpe falconry would do the right thing, they will be losing £££££s as we speak.

No because everyone else that they have ever dealt with im sure has recieved top notch service and this is a one off. Not their fault its the mail system. I think this thread has turned into an unnecessary slagging match. The point has been made, like I said before I sympathise as it is a pain in the backside wehn things get lost in the mail but no good is going to come of it by slating Bryn or anyone at Armthorpe.

Leave it now

[Kennelre]

One would think Armthorpe falconry would do the right thing, they will be losing £££££s as we speak.

Well...just turn it on it's head for a minute and consider it from a seller's point of view.
How do they protect themselves from people who would claim that a package had not been received when it actually had? Not everyone is honest...we know this. So there has to be a framework within which people operate if they are sending packages through the post and, technically, the sellers have fulfilled their obligation. It should not cost them custom... only, perhaps, inspire a rethink of their policy relating to insurance.


...Rene.

[Mick]

wouldnt say its a slagging match the lad is angry hes waited so long for his stuff then to be told only get 20 quid is a kick in the teeth he might of posted this in anger

[Falconry Equipment International]

Well said Anna !:supz:

[BlueBoy]

No because everyone else that they have ever dealt with im sure has recieved top notch service and this is a one off. Not their fault its the mail system. I think this thread has turned into an unnecessary slagging match. The point has been made, like I said before I sympathise as it is a pain in the backside wehn things get lost in the mail but no good is going to come of it by slating Bryn or anyone at Armthorpe.

Leave it now

im not slagging these people off, i just think they have policy that can be improved, the point is if they dont act they will lose customers...new ones.

[BlueBoy]

You may be onto something there. Im sure if you have insurance on your credit cards they do pay out if goods from abroad are lost.

if you spend over £100 on your card your covered and will be refunded

[CopperBarn]

Well said Anna !:supz:

Too right
:lol:

[CopperBarn]

im not slagging these people off, i just think they have policy that can be improved, the point is if they dont act they will lose customers...new ones.

Nothing personal but it will be your loss if you never use Armthorpe as a result of this thread.
I have said before, I sympathise but lets look at this from another point of view...

The AI kit which is ordered comes to a total of 150 english pounds...the buyer pays 150 english pounds...surely it is evident here that no other costs have been covered? E.g insurance costs? Whats Bryn meant to do fork out a few quid out of his own pocket to cover the off chance that the Royal Mail would possibly c*ck up...again?
If insurance had been discussed at the time of the transaction, then the outcome would have I'm sure been different. But as the original post said, no insurance was offered, but I'll bet my salary it was not asked for either.
Not a personal dig at anyone, but this forum is not the sort of media which should be used to single out and bad mouth anyone, whether its for the right intentions or not.
The International Falconers Forum is for debate, making new friends and aqquaintances and for sharing and gaining knowledge, not to commit slander.

If people choose not to use Armthorpe as a result of this thread, then its a shame to this forum, its a shame to every falconer on it and I hope that in the future no one decides to slander you or any business you may be involved in on a thread like this.

[Saker-Clive]

When ever I've sent parcels or packages I've sold, I always send either Recorded for small packages that are not valued above £32 and that costs a couple of quid but when I've sent binos, scales etc. I send them parcel force at £18, which has insurance upto £150 as standard.
Anyone who sends things regularly would usually have an account with one of the mailing services and should know if there is insurance cover or not. Now some people will sell and charge top dollar for p&p, only to send in basic post.................................not saying that this is the case but you only have to look at Ebay and see some peoples p&p charges of X-pounds but only sent in a 50p jiffy bag and standard letter post!!!!!
Next time anyone takes a parcel to the post office, I guarrantee they will ask if the parcel has any value and to what value it is.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Another point I wish to make is that folk whom are not in business seem to sometimes fail to realise is that if goods are lost in the post or have been stolen / shoplifted the business owner has a far greater loss than the actual cost.. eg if something was shoplifted that had a retail price of £150 and the net profit on that is £20 , then the owner is going to have to sell more than 7 more (7.5 ), just to get even. Therefore IMHO don't you think Bryn and all at Armthorpe are actually being very fair?

[SSL]

Another point I wish to make is that folk whom are not in business seem to sometimes fail to realise is that if goods are lost in the post or have been stolen / shoplifted the business owner has a far greater loss than the actual cost.. eg if something was shoplifted that had a retail price of £150 and the net profit on that is £20 , then the owner is going to have to sell more than 7 more (7.5 ), just to get even. Therefore IMHO don't you think Bryn and all at Armthorpe are actually being very fair?

Do you work for Chesterfield Council?

[AlexB]

Nothing personal but it will be your loss if you never use Armthorpe as a result of this thread.
I have said before, I sympathise but lets look at this from another point of view...

The AI kit which is ordered comes to a total of 150 english pounds...the buyer pays 150 english pounds...surely it is evident here that no other costs have been covered? E.g insurance costs? Whats Bryn meant to do fork out a few quid out of his own pocket to cover the off chance that the Royal Mail would possibly c*ck up...again?
If insurance had been discussed at the time of the transaction, then the outcome would have I'm sure been different. But as the original post said, no insurance was offered, but I'll bet my salary it was not asked for either.
Not a personal dig at anyone, but this forum is not the sort of media which should be used to single out and bad mouth anyone, whether its for the right intentions or not.
The International Falconers Forum is for debate, making new friends and aqquaintances and for sharing and gaining knowledge, not to commit slander.

If people choose not to use Armthorpe as a result of this thread, then its a shame to this forum, its a shame to every falconer on it and I hope that in the future no one decides to slander you or any business you may be involved in on a thread like this.

Sadly i think the biggest problem here was possibly a breakdown in communication. I asked for the total cost including all p&p costs in my opinion this included insurance because of the value and because it was being sent too germany. I was quoted £5 and paid it. That was the last it was ever mentioned until the package has now been accepted as los. Only then to be told it is my responsibility to request insurance on the postage. As far as i was aware it is the sellers responsibility to offer it at source. As in the case of Ebay etc. I was never told it wasnt insured thus if any loss i would bare the brunt of the expence. I do not want to get into any slagging or slandering matches here but I have only stated the facts and they are as follows.

1. I ordered 10 months ago and reported not received after about 4 weeks. Left to me to chase up.

2. Finally Armthorpe started to chase but only on 1-2 occasions returned my calls to chase this up. The reason being they lost my number? i gave it several times.

3. once it was accepted as lost i was told then i was only going to receive £20 compensation because I did not ask for it to be sent with insurance, a service never offered or mentioned by the sender.

These are the basic facts.

As far as anything else goes i would not recommend them to any of my friends to use them due to the fact I feel their customer care is poor. this is based on this mornings offer of £20 but based over the last 10 months of chasing and getting very little back from them.

ATB

Alex

[GoodFooter]

Another point I wish to make is that folk whom are not in business seem to sometimes fail to realise is that if goods are lost in the post or have been stolen / shoplifted the business owner has a far greater loss than the actual cost.. eg if something was shoplifted that had a retail price of £150 and the net profit on that is £20 , then the owner is going to have to sell more than 7 more (7.5 ), just to get even. Therefore IMHO don't you think Bryn and all at Armthorpe are actually being very fair?

If you bought something but didnt get it how would you feel??? the bottom line is they have the money for the goods which Alex never received......so no I wouldnt say they were being 'very fair'......if i paid for something not surprisingly I would want to receive it:rolleyes:

[AlexB]

Another point I wish to make is that folk whom are not in business seem to sometimes fail to realise is that if goods are lost in the post or have been stolen / shoplifted the business owner has a far greater loss than the actual cost.. eg if something was shoplifted that had a retail price of £150 and the net profit on that is £20 , then the owner is going to have to sell more than 7 more (7.5 ), just to get even. Therefore IMHO don't you think Bryn and all at Armthorpe are actually being very fair?


I understand your point but i dont give a fig for poor old sellers when it come to me or them loosing my hard earned cash. They have ended up with £130 of MY money in their bank for the last 10 months for services not completed. i have only had one other packe go missing and that was sorted very quickly due to the good customer care offerd by that company and you know exactly who that was, hence i have always sung the praises of the goods and services supplied by you. However this is not the case elsewhere.

Sadly I will stay out of pocket no matter how much is put on here the main message to punters is make sure you get it insured for postage or you could end up more out of pocket.

ATB

Alex

[Gozzhawk]

I have had a couple of companies I would not use again.
I think it is fair and right to let people know if you are not satisfied
Also there are threads on here where people are thanked for the service provided , its a two way thing.
Anyhoo people will have differing opinions and experiences as always

[AlexB]

I have had a couple of companies I would not use again.
I think it is fair and right to let people know if you are not satisfied
Also there are threads on here where people are thanked for the service provided , its a two way thing.
Anyhoo people will have differing opinions and experiences as always


Very true.

Alex

[CJTaylor]

If you bought something but didnt get it how would you feel??? the bottom line is they have the money for the goods which Alex never received......so no I wouldnt say they were being 'very fair'......if i paid for something not surprisingly I would want to receive it:rolleyes:
I can understand your upset , and sympathise my own mate often has to resend goods that have been "lost" in the post ( lakeland guns) however , they must have their reasons , as its obviously not their usualy method of being " bad business men" , as its only a few months ago they offered and gave away £ 3000 s worth of falcons to members of the forum , surely that would contradict what your suggesting in terms of " customer care".....Colin

[Gozzhawk]

also , just a little point , and I have discussed this with a few folk.

here in the UK we have a 'put up with it' attitude and rarely complain.

I for one , as those who know me will testify , will not stand for being messed about

same as if you fanny someone around they will tell others you are a fanny.

[AlexB]

I can understand your upset , and sympathise my own mate often has to resend goods that have been "lost" in the post ( lakeland guns) however , they must have their reasons , as its obviously not their usualy method of being " bad business men" , as its only a few months ago they offered and gave away £ 3000 s worth of falcons to members of the forum , surely that would contradict what your suggesting in terms of " customer care".....Colin

Colin as i said it is possibly a breakdown in communications and a one off for the company. However it doesnt make it any easier to swallow a £130 loss at my expence. At the end of the day if they can afford to give away £3000 of birds then why cant the repay £150 to me?

Alex

[GoodFooter]

I can understand your upset , and sympathise my own mate often has to resend goods that have been "lost" in the post ( lakeland guns) however , they must have their reasons , as its obviously not their usualy method of being " bad business men" , as its only a few months ago they offered and gave away £ 3000 s worth of falcons to members of the forum , surely that would contradict what your suggesting in terms of " customer care".....Colin

Colin, they seem like really nice guys....to do what they did....... I have no qualms with the guys.......read my comments on that thread

But for 'J' to say they were being 'very fair' seems perverse to me when a guy is some £130 out of pocket. The situation is a 'no win' one. However in a business customer care and reputation go a long way.....90% of my business comes from referals....and they say do a good job and that customers may tell another but do a bad job and that customer will tell atleast 10 others:yawinkle:.......ps I'm not upset ....its not my £130:yawinkle:......maybe they shoudl have sold one of the falcons cheaply to cover this guys loss????

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Enough!

As Armthorpe Falconry are not online to respond at the moment, the thread will be closed for now. If they wish to respond the thread will be reopened.

[Marra]

Alex, firstly I would like to say that I am responding to your inflammatory postings with reluctance, to be honest I much more important things to do with my time.
We at Armthorpe Falcons posted the goods ordered by you on the 12th March 2008, the package was sent to a P.O. box number in Germany, which turns out to be a British force Barracks and proof of posting was obtained.

You were informed at the time of the cost of postage and did not request any special posting arrangement; it was not until over 2 months from the date of posting that you informed us that you had not received the goods.
By this time the trail had gone cold and made tracking the items very difficult, if I had not received my goods within a week I would have informed the seller immediately.
Bryn spoke with you personally by phone and discussed the situation, at no time was he or his secretary anything more than polite and helpful, unfortunately the same can not be said for your self.

We contacted the B.F.P.O (British Forces post office) and endeavored to track down the items, a Mrs. Chambers of that department was very helpful and did all she could to sort out the situation.
The B.F.P.O informed us that they had contacted you and requested that you reply to them in writing, informing them of your failure to receive your goods. This request was made several times, on no occasion did you respond and therefore they could not proceed with an official complaint.
We were also informed that postal items sent to these addresses and not collected in a fixed time were destroyed.

All our correspondence with the parties involved is here on record, and available to view at any time.
We feel that we have fulfilled all our obligations in this matter and will take no further action, if you would like to call in at our premises personally to discuss it further, you are more than welcome to do so.

We at Armthorpe Falcons pride our selves on our customer service, whether providing a falcon or a falconry related item.
We endeavor to give the best service we can, and go beyond the norm in our efforts fulfill our customers’ needs as our many, many satisfied customers will attest.

We will not respond to any further discussion on this subject and consider the matter closed, it is a shame that you were not as diligent in your actions as we have been in trying to resolve this situation, if you had it may have concluded in a more satisfactory manor.


Chris