Pale Chanting Goshawk

[FalcoSahara]

So I finally managed to get hold of a Pale Chanting Gos. At least, I think that's what it is. The adult bird I saw near the nesting site certainly was, but I am a bit perplexed as to how un-pale the eyas is! Can anyone confirm that this is what it really is? I assume that the immature plumage must be much darker than the adult.
Are they real goshawks? It seems more like a spar in size (560g). Ok it's not full grown yet...
So, anyone have stories to tell about these birds? I hope to get it catching pigeons and doves, as these are the commonest quarry here. There are also some kind of small game birds here, francolin I think, I don't know if it will be capable of catching them.

[Hawkmaster]

The confirmation of the bird is right BUT I am not convinced? Is there barring under the tail? The eyes are usually a more red colour and the legs more orange.

The difference may be that I had mine and I have trapped and trained 2, in the old Transvaal of South Africa and your is a million miles away. The weight is more or less right although a lot higher now before training.

It also from that photo does not have the foreheadlessness if there is such a word of the PCG.

I will tell you it is the best Gos I have ever flown for kills and they will take torries (collared doves) from the fist if they are flying away within say 30 yards of you and take them out the air. Awesome little birds. Keep us updated.

[FalcoSahara]

The legs are pretty orange, the flash has not brought that out too well. Yes, there is barring under the tail. The legs and cere of the adult birs are almost red - does this develop when the bird is older?

What do you mean 'foreheadlessness'?

It is one of the commonest raptors here, I guess that says something about it's ability to take a range of quarry.

[Hawkmaster]

What do you mean 'foreheadlessness'?
It sort of has a stright sloping head to cere and beak that one looks more like a dented in bit by the cere, once again could be the picture.

Looks like it is one then. You will have tons of fun.

[Finnish]

It looks like a nice little bird got any more pics of it.

[FalcoSahara]

Here's a pic of another one a friend has just given me. Hopefully one of the two will turn out well. This one is a bit older. It looks darker. I assume it is the same species... my problem is I have absolutely no reference guide to the birds here, so I am going by what I learn by internet, which isn't much. No one seems to know much about west african raptors.

[Finnish]

Looks nice mate what weight is that little beauty??

[North East Harris Hawker]

the feet look massive ,proportionally :shock:

[FalcoSahara]

Looks nice mate what weight is that little beauty??

Now flying at 335g. Been trying to enter him to pigeons, but he seems much more interested in lizards at the moment! I am still not 100% sure it is a PCG, anyone confirm, if you have access to an id guide? Maybe it is a dark chanting gos?

[Hawkmaster]

Those feet look right but not the rest of it? Not sure mate sorry!

[FalcoSahara]

Ok, just found a pic, so now I am sure it is a pcg.

http://www.kenyabirds.org.uk/juvenile_goshawk2.htm

[Ben C]

that is a black harris hawk

[Adam Barrett]

what is? :rolleyes:

[OhMyGod]

whatever it is I don't believe it will be a success on feather. I think the chanting gosses and african gos take mostly reptiles in the wild. Sure they may take a few feathereds but I reckon they are mostly reptiles. I know for sure that nobody really wants to fly african gos or chanting as they are incredibly lazy and nothing like our gosses, more like small roadside buzzards. If you don't believe me look at those legs and feet. says it all. little spars and black spars have thin legs and extremely long toes with inch long tallons designed for taking feather 2 or 3 times their weight. That bird up there has feet for catching lizzards that take ages to die when the hawk is sat on its head being dragged around, thats why the legs are strong and the feet like a crow and tallons like a mouse those tallons couldn't hold on to a bird I don't think. sit on a lizzards head and peck its eyes out, good tactics.

[OhMyGod]

ok just looked at the link of the picture of the adult.

Falcosahara

You see the way the gos is sitting?

they have evolved to sit this way over thousands of years, both pale and dark, the reason being they do not really chase birds or fast moving mammals.

The way they hunt is sitting down on an angle where the body is more inline with the branch instead of facing forward so when a lizard of small rodent passes underneath they can jump off either forwards or behind themselves and land on it. I have sat and watched them with binoculars. I think you will struggle to get this bird to catch doves, i honestly do.

Hawkmaster says he has taken many with a chanting gos, I do not believe that the bird you have will ever take doves succesfully, but there's no harm in trying, I know they don't take them in the wild.

But good luck

[Hawkmaster]

The link you put above looks like the same bird, so that may explain the different looks.

Here is a link of what they look like, down south:
http://www.justbirds.org/Sud%20Africa/Pale-chanting%20goshawk%202.htm

PCG will take almost anything in the wild and DO take birds most the time, but like anything this depends on where the bird is located.

[FalcoSahara]

Cheers OMG, I thought I was on to a winner. Now feel slightly discouraged! Well, you gotta make do with what you can get I guess. At least I don't pay anything for my birds here so if they turn out rubbish, I can release them and try something else. For example, I have had a tawny eagle for 2 months, and have finally come to the conclusion that it is no good for me. The place where I live does not have the right kind of quarry for it (desert hares are rare, and gazelles even rarer and protected). So I will probably release it soon. If I had had to pay the terrible UK prices, of course this would not be an option, as it would have been a huge investment.

[OhMyGod]

Falcosahara

What birds do you have in your area for the taking?

lanner?
peregrine?
sparrowhawk?
african hawk eagle?
booted eagle?

Sure tawny eagles are a large bird able to catch fairly large prey, they are related to golden eagles or your black eagles, but again in the wild these birds are more of a scavenger and are another bird that can be a bit lazy. If you have taken this bird as a passage or haggard it may have spent most of it's time stealing it's food from other birds and scavenging or taking small rodents or emtying nests of young, which are alot easier to catch. I honestly don't think these birds if taken from the wild as adults will have much GO in them as they would have learnt already the characteristics of the wild tawny eagle, and I wouldn't think them very succesful in the falconry world. I don't mean to be a kill joy, but do think it's best to find out how they hunt in the wild and try and fly them in a similar way. have you seen how the chanting gos hunts in the wild in your area. When you took the eyas you should surely be able to see some carcases around the nest to get some idea of their main prey in that perticular area. I would imagine it quite easy to go out and see them hunting, and get some idea of what they are doing.

Hawkmaster has already said they will take doves, if this is what you want to achieve I would recomend feeding it on doves only and then slipping the bird at doves only in easy circumstances to start until it starts to kill a few and see how it fairs on this quarry, before it gets used to going for other easier lizards etc, otherwise when you slip the bird it will end up just flying off into trees where it will just sit there self hunting lizards and rodents, refusing to come to the fist.

[FalcoSahara]

I guess you are right. The prey around the nest was mainly spiny-tailed lizards. I will still persevere a bit though on the pigeons.
The main birds we have here are:
Snake eagle
PCG
lanner (but quite rare)
some kind of small falcon (maybe african kes or something)
desert eagle owl
many vultures

so I would really like to get a lanner, but it is difficult. I spent 3 days trying to trap one with no sucess. They nest high up on cliff faces and I have no decent climbing gear to get to them. Plus local people try to sell them to arab falconers at ridiculous prices, so they are pretty hard to get.

[Hawkmaster]

FalcoSahara where exactly are you?

[OhMyGod]

Falco sahara.

You do not need to imprint!

You can trap young eyas lanners quite easily. When they have taken their first flights and are still reliant on their parents they can not help but chase things. You can catch pigeons near your home using seed, or however else you think can work. You simply tie your pigeons legs to a rock or brick, or better to use a tent peg with a swivel. Using fine nets made from fishing line you set up a screen of netting in front of the pigeon toward the cliffs and the lanners can't help but show an interest in the pigeon, fly into the nets and you have one. Alternativly you can use a pigeon harness with lots of nooses made from fishing line. I went out trapping with a guy and got a whole clutch and an adult in one day, we then took two females home. we didn't have pigeons so we used love birds which aren't even their prey but it worked well as they keep moving about, jumping up and down.
Lanners taken at this age are easily managed and after 2 weeks will appear quite tame and 2 weeks after will show no fear of you what so ever.

I don't think lanners are really worth a great deal in eastern africa, india, or the arab countrys, but sure they will be worth somthing.

Do you know when the young lanners will be about? are they flying around now? some birds of prey in africa like the black sparrowhawk (or great sparrowhawk) will breed every 6 months, not sure if lanners do this also. I trapped the lanners in southern africa and I think they had just fledged in september or october time, but perhaps it is different where you are.

[FalcoSahara]

FalcoSahara where exactly are you?

In the Air mountains, North Niger, Sahara desert

[Finnish]

http://www.justbirds.org/Sud%20Africa/Pale-chanting%20goshawk%202.htm


Nice picture there Paul.

[FalcoSahara]

I don't think lanners are really worth a great deal in eastern africa, india, or the arab countrys, but sure they will be worth somthing.

I hear rumours that arabs will buy falcons from people here for upto about £1000. I really doubt if it is true, as rumours abound here, but still I wonder if you know better? What kind of price do they really go for? I assume they are after lanners or sakers?