HOODED OR NOT

[JackWelsh2005]

HI EVERYONE,
WHAT YOUR VIEWS ON HOODING HARRIS HAWKS AND WHAT IF ANY TIPS YOU CAN GIVE ME ON THE SUBJECT
CHEERS

[Tim Laycock]

Depends what kind of flights your trying to achieve M8

[Jack Merlin]

Personally, I prefer to hood. But it is a personal thing.

For example, last night I was giving the gos some carriage and feeding her on a rabbit head. I really needed to pull the skin on the head down so she could get at more meat. But to do that, I needed 1.5 hands<g> If I had been able to hood her, I could have popped it on and used the fingers of my left hand to hold the head while I cut some of the skin off with the knife in my right hand. As it was, I knew if I tried that she would adjust her hold to include my thumb! A small thing but annoying. And very very painful!

There are many situations when it is nice to be able to "turn off" your hawk by sticking on the hood. But not everyone can make a bird to the hood and not every bird wants to be hooded. As I say, its a personal thing. Each to his own.

[Darren]

my male harris is made to the hood & it is an advantage, especialy when walking to the hunting ground or when doing something that might startle the bird. it is a good tool the hood

[GriffMJ]

:)

http://www.m-jhoods.co.uk/images/Hawk%20Range/Maynes52.JPG

[Darren]

Griff how much is that hood.....very nice

Daz

[GriffMJ]

£40 ....u can buy from my website :)

[SakerJack]

JW,
As hoodmakers of course we would rather you hood every bird!! As a falconer it is always an advantage when your bird hoods well. You may not always use the hood but there will be times where even a sound Harris Hawk will get un-nerved causing a bate. This is something you always want to avoid. The hood can and will avoid those potential mishaps.
As well hooding will make you a more complete falconer, someday you may get a bird that has to be hooded, and Whalla, you are a competant hooder..
Sakerjack
Falconry Hoods International

[Tim Laycock]

Personaly I dont dont like to have a hawk that is not good with the hood,
The time taken to make a hawk so will pay off a hundred fold in your time together.
Some may disagree but this is my view on hooding.
A hood made hawk is not a diffficult thing to achieve so why neglect to make your bird good with the hood.

[Darren]

griff is it the maines hood?.....what colours do you do them in.....as I only have 1 dutch hood from www.falconryhoods.co.uk & should really get a spare for him

[Ali]

Here we only hood hawks (red eyed birds) while they are in the process of training, its must for them to be hooded at that time otherwise all the hard work you have been doing with your hawk during the training process its gone with the wind, when its tamed then there is no need for a hood on hawks, but falcons always should be kept hooded coz all the black eyed birds no matter how tamed they are keep fear within themselves.

[Jack Merlin]

Ali,

That is interesting to hear. Also, that you call them red eyed birds. At what age do they get red eyes? (I think that varies with subspecies).

Is it still one hawk per falconer with the goshawks and sparrowhawks? Or does a falconer sometimes have several birds in his charge?

[Kornie]

As well hooding will make you a more complete falconer,


Good marketing strategy!

[Ali]

All hawks got red eyes or yellow no hawk has black eyes (do they?) thats why we call them red eyed birds but thats a very old fashioned term which we use here localy while talking with our trappers old guys who are by birth falcon trappers coz this is their main profession and a way to earn their bread and butter, yes one guy only handles one bird at a time coz its also a living thing and its also got feelings, thoughts, and a better instinct than a human if you keep it wisely and with care in my own personal experience and a one guy can only handle a single bird properly in real means though 2 can be kept too but you cant give the proper attention what a bird needs to 2 at a time at least not me.
Ali

[Ben C]

Ali, Very interesting reading my friend :) :) I agree with it all. However after training here in the uk we have lots of things which would startle hawks.

Hooding you hawk is very important Jackwelsh. There are numerous situations that a hood requires: Bites from squirrels (hooding and then rushing home/to the vet), paunching kills in the field, cars, dogs, horses, crossing roads, travelling short distance in the car, calming down on the walk home, builders, ferrets.................the list is endless.

I would reccommend using the hood 100%. My Harris found it hard and they do not like it, but if you are careful and delicate and slow then a Harris takes it well.

Also they do look very cool if you get a good un.

Cheers

ben

[Jack Merlin]

I think where Ali lives one falconer lives with one hawk (goshawk or sparrowhawk) 24 hours a day and at night the hawk roosts on the side of the falconer's bed! That, at least, is what I was told many years ago by a falconer who came from that area. The hawks (all passagers) are so well manned, they will tolerate everything. We don't have the time or the commitment to achieve that in the west, so it is a good idea to use the hood.

I reckon I must have put the hood on my gos and taken it off 2,000 times when making him to the hood! He still does not take it well, but it is do-able. Just have to keep going, gently repeating, until they accept it.

[Ali]

yes Jack you are very well right in saying it here when a wild gos is trapped i assure you it scares the hell out of you i have once been grabbed by one and its tallons went across my thumb and the pointing finger i got this mark till now it was 14 years ago i got slapped by my dad coz i tried to get my hand away and he said let your hand loose it will let it go and let the hawk do wht it tends to and it will let it go and trust me it let my hand free after a few minutes it was sealed at that time when i did this foolish act, yes ,mate falconry is a 24 hour job or hobby wht ever you prefer to call it you got to be a bird with the bird :) the tollerance is due to the care and picking it on the wirst mate it very well knows who it is with its kind of a secure feeling for the bird, though i like to fly a captive bred to see how it tastes :P in the flights coz passage birds give you a thrill and after a days flights you dont feel that you just wasted your time in the desert or if youre with a gos then its the woods, Jack when you train a gos does it just fly and grab its quarry or it runs after it once its on the ground or if it gets in the bushes?

[Jack Merlin]

Jack when you train a gos does it just fly and grab its quarry or it runs after it once its on the ground or if it gets in the bushes?

If the gos does not catch in the air or immediately the quarry puts in, in my country the quarry is usually lost. But the country I hunt is planted with young trees and the ground cover is very thick. At first, my gos tried to catch them on foot but he soon learned to fly to a tree. Usually, if the gos misses and the quarry puts in, the gos will take stand nearby. I trained my hawk to wait near the put in by rewarding it. Then, if I want, I can sometimes reflush with the dogs -- but usually a pheasant will run in the cover and be lost. I do not re-flush hen pheasants but I do re-flush cocks (roosters) because they are difficult enough for a male goshawk.
Then sometimes the dogs may find it again and point it, usually 15 - 20 yards from the put in. But then the pheasant knows it is discovered and will fly off as quickly as possible before the hawk can get up! My quarry is mostly pheasants. After they have been flown a few times, they get very clever. But I hunt for sport, so that is OK. I get another flight another day!

My gos is captive bred but the last three seasons he got flown almost every day during the season. In November I try to catch woodcock but no kills yet. They are very difficult! I think it is only possible with a good pointing dog and letting the hawk fly out of a tree. Do you have woodcock?

[Ali]

we have pheasants,wild cocks and hens here in some areas as well as partridges, and sand grouse are in large numbers but never heard of a woodcock mate.
Ali

[Miguel Gomez]

Jack when you train a gos does it just fly and grab its quarry or it runs after it once its on the ground or if it gets in the bushes?

If the gos does not catch in the air or immediately the quarry puts in, in my country the quarry is usually lost. But the country I hunt is planted with young trees and the ground cover is very thick. At first, my gos tried to catch them on foot but he soon learned to fly to a tree. Usually, if the gos misses and the quarry puts in, the gos will take stand nearby. I trained my hawk to wait near the put in by rewarding it. Then, if I want, I can sometimes reflush with the dogs -- but usually a pheasant will run in the cover and be lost. I do not re-flush hen pheasants but I do re-flush cocks (roosters) because they are difficult enough for a male goshawk.
Then sometimes the dogs may find it again and point it, usually 15 - 20 yards from the put in. But then the pheasant knows it is discovered and will fly off as quickly as possible before the hawk can get up! My quarry is mostly pheasants. After they have been flown a few times, they get very clever. But I hunt for sport, so that is OK. I get another flight another day!

My gos is captive bred but the last three seasons he got flown almost every day during the season. In November I try to catch woodcock but no kills yet. They are very difficult! I think it is only possible with a good pointing dog and letting the hawk fly out of a tree. Do you have woodcock?


That's what i would call a rat hunt, hunting Gosses from trees is not sport, try a HH, if you cannot kill the quarry with one flight then let it go, and tip you hat and wish it well.

it does not deserve to be hounded to death,

that's what Falconry is all about, surely ?

[BrianM]

wonder who this is

[Moses]

we have pheasants,wild cocks and hens here in some areas as well as partridges, and sand grouse are in large numbers but never heard of a woodcock mate.
Ali

lol sorry bros it made me laugh

in scotland a wild cock and hen means something sexy :D

[GriffMJ]

My lurcher took one "sitting" once (woodcock)...lol

[Moses]

how big is your lurcher or even girth size :D haha

just kidding mj, sorry moderators ali got me going, many wild cocks in scotland :D

[Ali]

Its ok mates every place has diffrent meanings and if you knew punjabi you would agree with me coz that language also got double meanings of everything :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

im not one for hoods, i like harriss to become familiar with everything around them, make s a steadier bird me thinks. I can see the advantages of the hood though. its a personal choice at the end of the day.

[Finnish]

When i had my first HH some one at club told me to hood it so i did and he just fell of my glove every time so i soon gave that up. he was just one of tho's birds that did not like the hood.

[North East Harris Hawker]

i hooded mine in the first season (even though i knew she did not like it) but then binned it in the second. definately handy if your bird has a dislike to say...dogs, but then hiding her from them is just a cop out in the long run me thinks :?

[Tim Laycock]

Without doubt valuable it the field for picking and choosing slips though, even with a Harris, or a group of Harris's

[Moses]

Its ok mates every place has diffrent meanings and if you knew punjabi you would agree with me coz that language also got double meanings of everything :D


lol bros i know, see hen is a hen here too but in scots language we call a woman a hen too

and a cock is also a bird like woodcock or cockeral a male hen

but we use it for slang for our manhoods :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

Without doubt valuable it the field for picking and choosing slips though, even with a Harris, or a group of Harris's
true, theres nothing like a bunch of bating harrises bells to scare all the quarry away :D

[Goldie]

[
cockeral a male hen



Moses, you don't half crack me up :lol:

[Moses]

lol cheers :D mate, where u fae anyway

u aint too far from glasgow r u, motherwell or hamilton area


cheers

[Finnish]

cockeral a male hen

I have never heard of this before. :!:

[Moses]

i meant the breed a male cockeral cooco roo co coo , wake up wake up the corn flakes logo :D


what do u think of my big brown cockeral with a redhead :D


http://www.stuntdogs.net/images/cockeral_big.jpg

[Moses]

or do u like a white one with a red head, it gets very dirty if u put it in the wrong pen :D

http://www.triple-h.ca/images/rock_cockeral.jpg

[Tim Laycock]

Put a hood on it.
But dont forget to do the braces or you might have to go back in the "pen" to retrieve it. :vom: :rolleyes:

[Jack Merlin]

but we use it for slang for our manhoods

When on some American lists, I always use "rooster" for male pheasant fo avoid the confusion. And its amazing what innocent stuff my email program objects to!<g>

[M & J Raptors]

Jack when you train a gos does it just fly and grab its quarry or it runs after it once its on the ground or if it gets in the bushes?

If the gos does not catch in the air or immediately the quarry puts in, in my country the quarry is usually lost. But the country I hunt is planted with young trees and the ground cover is very thick. At first, my gos tried to catch them on foot but he soon learned to fly to a tree. Usually, if the gos misses and the quarry puts in, the gos will take stand nearby. I trained my hawk to wait near the put in by rewarding it. Then, if I want, I can sometimes reflush with the dogs -- but usually a pheasant will run in the cover and be lost. I do not re-flush hen pheasants but I do re-flush cocks (roosters) because they are difficult enough for a male goshawk.
Then sometimes the dogs may find it again and point it, usually 15 - 20 yards from the put in. But then the pheasant knows it is discovered and will fly off as quickly as possible before the hawk can get up! My quarry is mostly pheasants. After they have been flown a few times, they get very clever. But I hunt for sport, so that is OK. I get another flight another day!

My gos is captive bred but the last three seasons he got flown almost every day during the season. In November I try to catch woodcock but no kills yet. They are very difficult! I think it is only possible with a good pointing dog and letting the hawk fly out of a tree. Do you have woodcock?


That's what i would call a rat hunt, hunting Gosses from trees is not sport, try a HH, if you cannot kill the quarry with one flight then let it go, and tip you hat and wish it well.

it does not deserve to be hounded to death,

that's what Falconry is all about, surely ?




Hello Guest ?


Well said my friend, my sentiments entirely,


Mick why not sign on, you would enjoy it :P

[Ben C]

Aside from whether a gos should kill in cover or not (seems like the picking of old and tired scabs fellas :D :D ). Cmon be nice.

A hood should always be used, it does take time and effort but it can be done using a bit of noodle.

Harris Hawks don't like it, but if you can take your time and use food as a motivating factor for getting used to, and being rewarded from it, then you should be fine.

Jackwelsh..............hood your Harris as soon as possible mate. But get guidence from your mentor of from other more experienced.

Good Luck
:wink: :wink: :D :D
Ben

[Jack Merlin]

Hello Guest ?


Well said my friend, my sentiments entirely,


Mick why not sign on, you would enjoy it

Mick,

The first sign of madness is talking to yourself! Do you imagine that none here know you posted both messages in your usual style of disrupting an interesting thread and contributing nothing?

You dare to speak to me about sportsmanship? Sonny, I was training hawks, hunting a pack of hound, ferreting, running dogs, foxing with terriers, shooting and fishing before you were born. I have lived in the Highlands for forty years and in that time I was on the management team of one 170,000 acre sporting estate, then managed two others, 26,000 acres and 66,000 acres respectively. I had free access to all of it, whenever I wanted.

You think you can pontificate about falconry when your intention is to breed bigger and bigger goshawks. What on earth for? What can a 3lb gos do that a 2lb gos cannot do with more sport? What sport is there in flying a huge great female goshawk at a rabbit? You say that rabbit hawking bores you, yet you say you have been doing a round trip of 800 miles every year for the last twenty years to come up here to hawk rabbits! You must be mad!

And from the standard of dog handling you put up with it is quite clear that you do not have the faintest clue. You might impress your friends in suburbia, but not someone who spends every day with working dogs.

IF you were a sportsman, you would be catching rabbits and pheasants with a male and not having to travel hundreds of miles to pay for your sport. My male at 1lb 10oz catches 3lb 8oz rabbits with a tussle but at least it is sport. You might as well go shooting with an 8 bore as fly one of your useless monsters at them. What on earth does anyone do with one of these monsters?

BTW, how many goshawks HAVE you flown? Probably dozens. Which impresses me not at all. If you were a falconer you would make a good job of just one hawk and fly it for many seasons without chopping and changing every five minutes.

Go back to my original post and anyone can see that I was talking about flying a male goshawk at cock pheasants. If you do not think a 1lb 10oz male on a 2lb 8oz cock/rooster pheasant is sporting, you do not know much. I was also talking about flying wild pheasants in thick cover where they know they only have to drop down and run to escape the hawk and dogs. In those circumstances, re-flushing COCKS ONLY is not only fair but sporting. You clearly DO NOT KNOW.

Both Ali and Jastreb have praised passage goshawks for being better hunters that eyasses from their own experience. I don't need confirmation that flying passage sparrowhawks is a different ball game to flying eyasses as I have done it. Not everyone wants to fly a hawk which does not offer a challenge! But of course you know better because you have flown TWO passage goshawks -- wow!

I have to judge you by what you post here and the company you keep. Oh, and one day's hawking up here. Some of your friends are so foolish that they brag about catching released pheasants in September with a goshawk on a public newsgroup open to the world. Last I heard, that was illegal. Not difficult to get photos of a gos catching half fledged pheasants off the dogs nose in September, is it? But if someone does not know the background, it is REALLY impressive.

What happened to ukgoshawkers? I heard you bored everyone so much that they all left, so you have to come here and bore us all here. You contribute NOTHING. Just whine on and on. For God sake, grow up or **** off.

[M & J Raptors]

Derry

Have you completely lost the plot, if you think i cannot make comments in my own name then you have lost it. i merely agreed with the guest comments, so what.

barking mad.


Mick Kane

[Ali]

Falconry is a game of patience and wisdom, Goshawks are described as the King in the world of falconry and birds, in courage,bravery resourcefulness,strength of wing and dignity. Jack i agree very much with your hunting mate coz all is logical pure and it can be understood very nicely i have never flown a captive bred though i wish to to see what is the diffrence between a passage and a captive bred, though to be very honest we dont weigh our birds here in this part of the world but its a natural thing when you got a bird you know its heavy or less in weight.
Ali

[Ben C]

Ali and Derry, I find yet again I am in agreement with you both. I fly my 1lb 5oz Harris at all sorts of far bigger game. I have said many times before that he has a 'lions heart' (thats for Ali) and even though sometime these flights have been in cover (sometimes not) the weight to battle ratio is huge. So it is in fact good sport without a mugging.

Apart from which a lot of these kills in cover a never simple, never just cause and effect. They are prolonged and protracted. And although not from the glove some have taken clever strategy and effort on both mine and the hawks behalf. This is something that no one ever mentions.

However the need for a hood is still important Jackwelsh2005. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Ben C]

Oh and I tried to weigh 'Cody' using just my hand, arm and eyes only. You have to be very keen, but it can be done and we enjoyed a good two weeks hunting. But it is very scary. :) :)

[M & J Raptors]

Ali and Derry, I find yet again I am in agreement with you both. I fly my 1lb 5oz Harris at all sorts of far bigger game. I have said many times before that he has a 'lions heart' (thats for Ali) and even though sometime these flights have been in cover (sometimes not) the weight to battle ratio is huge. So it is in fact good sport without a mugging.

Apart from which a lot of these kills in cover a never simple, never just cause and effect. They are prolonged and protracted. And although not from the glove some have taken clever strategy and effort on both mine and the hawks behalf. This is something that no one ever mentions.

However the need for a hood is still important Jackwelsh2005. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



Ben

Explain to me why you think killing Game on the floor is good sport,

[Ben C]

Because rabbits run along the floor! I can't kill rabbits anywhere else mate!

Before we carry on do not drag me into a **** poor argument either! I am trying to talk to others not get involved in a fight mate. It is boring. :D :D

[M & J Raptors]

Because rabbits run along the floor! I can't kill rabbits anywhere else mate!

Before we carry on do not drag me into a **** poor argument either! I am trying to talk to others not get involved in a fight mate. It is boring. :D :D

Ben

If you do not want to get involved why do you agreed that killing Game on the floor is good sport,

Game is pheasants not rabbits,

[Ali]

well killing the game on the ground depends on the area, its surroundings as well as a few other things which can be weather,trees,bushes anything mate and afterall the main thing your hawks mood, its not confirm that if youre in a good mood your bird is too? So anything can happen i dont like to make issues nor i would prefer my falconry friends to do so instead of opposing one should learn but (thats my personal thought)
Ali

[M & J Raptors]

well killing the game on the ground depends on the area, its surroundings as well as a few other things which can be weather,trees,bushes anything mate and afterall the main thing your hawks mood, its not confirm that if youre in a good mood your bird is too? So anything can happen i dont like to make issues nor i would prefer my falconry friends to do so instead of opposing one should learn but (thats my personal thought)
Ali

Hi Ali

Thanks for that, but do you hunt your Goshawks from trees, ?

[Ali]

Mate i told you depends on alot of things it can also happen if the gos wants it to happen wht can you do in that case? but everyones got a method of his own way, though the falconry here is far more diffrent from yours and no one new can enter the sport only the families who are in it are in this sport and its a sport of the sourceful people here i tell you, I train my birds to the perfection of everything there are no mistakes and i do it quick. My birds grab their quarry in air or stoop down on the ground but i will not disagree with anyone coz everyones got their own methods its a game mate not a ring for 2 boxers to fight

[Ben C]

Right, Ok, if Game is Pheasant not rabbit (which it is my mistake) then obviously it is important to catch it in a sporting manner. But this takes on many guises does it not mate :) :).

There are many variables, not least the type of hawk you fly, the terrain you hunt on and the need for food over sport. It also matters if you use a dog. I don't use a dog, so the chance of me sniffing out a piece of game in cover is silch.

Killing in cover happens, but is not what you want in an Ideal world. However if you need an explanation of acceptable re-flushes and killing in cover, refer back to the SPECIFIC argument that Derry outlined.

No one has 100% cover free kills in their life time, not least beginners. However even if it is not in complete free flight, cover hunting is natural, happens in the wild, and the difference in weight out weighs any handwringing and guilt people should have. :) :)


Now my problem is that I am setting myself up here. I can feel it. I am taking on someone in an argument of sporting prowess and I have only been doing this a year. Ask yourself Billy, is it Sporting?? Or is this going to be a mugging?? :) :) :)

[Varmint]

Im sorry Mick, but good sport may mean something differrent to everyone here, i for my part mate do enjoy catching rabbits with my hawks, so long as they have been found by and i can enjoy the work of my pointer, i can select the ideal position from which to flush relative to my bird and finally use or abuse the wind.

Birds of what ever species have a relative reaction to the wind in flight, mammals based on terra firma are not so effected.

Id say that can produce some of the best "sport" and does for me?

Come on Guys, this is getting boring and Mick i do feel that without malice, you are being confrontational towards Derry.

You are a very talented Guy and i repect your opinions and knowledge, but this is kids stuff!

No body needs this mate! lifes to short and my Dads D*CK is bigger than yours and all that, cant we just agree to disagree?

[M & J Raptors]

Right, Ok, if Game is Pheasant not rabbit (which it is my mistake) then obviously it is important to catch it in a sporting manner. But this takes on many guises does it not mate :) :).

There are many variables, not least the type of hawk you fly, the terrain you hunt on and the need for food over sport. It also matters if you use a dog. I don't use a dog, so the chance of me sniffing out a piece of game in cover is silch.

Killing in cover happens, but is not what you want in an Ideal world. However if you need an explanation of acceptable re-flushes and killing in cover, refer back to the SPECIFIC argument that Derry outlined.

No one has 100% cover free kills in their life time, not least beginners. However even if it is not in complete free flight, cover hunting is natural, happens in the wild, and the difference in weight out weighs any handwringing and guilt people should have. :) :)


Now my problem is that I am setting myself up here. I can feel it. I am taking on someone in an argument of sporting prowess and I have only been doing this a year. Ask yourself Billy, is it Sporting?? Or is this going to be a mugging?? :) :) :)


Ben

Rabbits are not Game and have to be killed on the ground, Pheasants have wings and can fly,

it all depends what you call sport.

a year, ???

[M & J Raptors]

Mate i told you depends on alot of things it can also happen if the gos wants it to happen wht can you do in that case? but everyones got a method of his own way, though the falconry here is far more diffrent from yours and no one new can enter the sport only the families who are in it are in this sport and its a sport of the sourceful people here i tell you, I train my birds to the perfection of everything there are no mistakes and i do it quick. My birds grab their quarry in air or stoop down on the ground but i will not disagree with anyone coz everyones got their own methods its a game mate not a ring for 2 boxers to fight

Ali

It was merely a question, and interested to hear how others fly their gosses and what they look for in our sport.

None of my Goshawks have ever hunted from trees, i do not encourage it and if you do then it will be hard to stop, it promotes self hunting and have seen many a Gos lost by using this method
also i never re flush not matter how good the flight is.

like i said each to their own.

thanks

Mick

[Ben C]

Billy, are you drunk?

Because it is clear you are being overly patronising and I AM AN EASY TARGET. For god sake man, take as many pot shots as you like mate. I couldn't give a rats arse.....
Anyway rabbits are sporting.......I thought it was all about the flight and not what you catch........****** I've got that wrong again haven't I. SILLY ME.

:) :) :)

[M & J Raptors]

Im sorry Mick, but good sport may mean something differrent to everyone here, i for my part mate do enjoy catching rabbits with my hawks, so long as they have been found by and i can enjoy the work of my pointer, i can select the ideal position from which to flush relative to my bird and finally use or abuse the wind.

Birds of what ever species have a relative reaction to the wind in flight, mammals based on terra firma are not so effected.

Id say that can produce some of the best "sport" and does for me?

Come on Guys, this is getting boring and Mick i do feel that without malice, you are being confrontational towards Derry.

You are a very talented Guy and i repect your opinions and knowledge, but this is kids stuff!

No body needs this mate! lifes to short and my Dads D*CK is bigger than yours and all that, cant we just agree to disagree?

Ade

If you read through Derry's post, look at who's being confrontational, he has problems holding himself together without using personal insults,
please tell me where i have replied in the same manner ?

Ade i love hawking Rabbits, but the thread was killing pheasant on the ground with a Gos, would you call that sport, i for one do not.

that just my opinion, agree or disagree i could not give a **** but some do,

all the best

Mick

[Varmint]

8) Not worth falling out over guys!

I believe the thread was about Hooding or not hooding a Harris Hawk?

[M & J Raptors]

Billy, are you drunk?

Because it is clear you are being overly patronising and I AM AN EASY TARGET. For god sake man, take as many pot shots as you like mate. I couldn't give a rats ****.....
Anyway rabbits are sporting.......I thought it was all about the flight and not what you catch........****** I've got that wrong again haven't I. SILLY ME.

:) :) :)

If you feel out of depth, then why make silly comments you cannot back up,

again Rabbits where not mentioned in the original posts, Pheasants were,

all the best

Mick

[Ali]

Mate nor do mine hunts from the trees its a bad habbit though and if i do it infront of my local falconers an elderly falconer might insult me that wht is my bird doing and it will be a big thing for me so we keep our birds very well tammed and very well mannered ..........Coz my family is very well respected in this field and everyone is a practical falconer.
Ali

[M & J Raptors]

yes Jack you are very well right in saying it here when a wild gos is trapped i assure you it scares the hell out of you i have once been grabbed by one and its tallons went across my thumb and the pointing finger i got this mark till now it was 14 years ago i got slapped by my dad coz i tried to get my hand away and he said let your hand loose it will let it go and let the hawk do wht it tends to and it will let it go and trust me it let my hand free after a few minutes it was sealed at that time when i did this foolish act, yes ,mate falconry is a 24 hour job or hobby wht ever you prefer to call it you got to be a bird with the bird :) the tollerance is due to the care and picking it on the wirst mate it very well knows who it is with its kind of a secure feeling for the bird, though i like to fly a captive bred to see how it tastes :P in the flights coz passage birds give you a thrill and after a days flights you dont feel that you just wasted your time in the desert or if youre with a gos then its the woods, Jack when you train a gos does it just fly and grab its quarry or it runs after it once its on the ground or if it gets in the bushes?

Ade

It was till it went off topic,

[M & J Raptors]

Mate nor do mine hunts from the trees its a bad habbit though and if i do it infront of my local falconers an elderly falconer might insult me that wht is my bird doing and it will be a big thing for me so we keep our birds very well tammed and very well mannered ..........Coz my family is very well respected in this field and everyone is a practical falconer.
Ali

Thank you Ali for your comments.

[Ben C]

OFF topic? This thread was about hoods you narna. :) :) JUST LOOK AT THE TITLE.

I am not out of me depth really mate, and any comments by me are not really silly. Only people with more experience who are un willing to correct my errors are silly sunshine. And aprt from which I bowed to your knowledge yonks ago. :) :)

And as I say in a perfect world everyone would take pheasants cleanly and in mid flight. But they don't, why? For many reasons. I have even seen phtographs of gos hawks on here killing in cover.


:) :) :)
Ben

[Ben C]

Billy you have PM

[North East Harris Hawker]

just steady on here ladies :o

[Jack Merlin]

Mick inferred that it is unsporting to (1) re-flush cock pheasants, even to a male goshawk, and (b) it is unsporting to let a hawk fly at quarry out of a tree.

If that his opinion, I have no quarrel with that but perhaps it would be nice if he kept his opinions to himself as voicing them here adds nothing to our knowledge and is very very boring. We hear a lot of opinions from him but very few facts.

Now, it is my opinion that flying an over sized bird at normal sized quarry is unsporting. I do not see the sense in carrying around, say, a 3lb goshawk which should be more than capable of taking a 3lb rabbit or a 2.5lb goshawk when a smaller bird would do the same in a more sporting manner.

On the other hand, taking this quarry with a good male or small female would be a better match and should give better sport.

I fly my hawk as I wish and as suits the ground and quarry I fly. As a matter of fact, I have a surplus of cock pheasants and may have to resort to knocking them off with a .22 rifle. So why not kill them with a hawk any way I can? It is called "game management" and if our Thick friend knew a bit more about the countryside he would know that it is routine policy on some shoots to catch up surplus cock pheasants, ring their necks, and sell them to the game dealer.

As for my gos self-hunting, there is not much danger of that as I TRAIN my birds and animals. But that is another thing Mick doesn't seem to know much about which is why he sneers at passagers and only flies imprints.

Sport is not about "wacking stuff" or clocking up big scores to most of us. Not, apparently, to Mick who brags about killing "1,000 rabbits with one goshawk". Jeezus! Who is counting? I don't even keep a game book! If that turns you on, go work in an abattoir.

Whether I let my hawk fly out if a tree is my business. Whether I fly my hawk at woodcock or not is my business. In a previous post, you inferred that there was something stupid about flying a hawk at woodcock, presumably because it is a difficult quarry. Again, Mick demonstrates that he knows very little about sport.

I have no doubt that Mick is an excellent parrot breeder, sorry -- correction -- goshawk breeder, but he knows absolutely nothing about sportsmanship outside of a brawl in the public bar.

As I've said before, **** off or grow up.

[M & J Raptors]

Mick inferred that it is unsporting to (1) re-flush cock pheasants, even to a male goshawk, and (b) it is unsporting to let a hawk fly at quarry out of a tree.

If that his opinion, I have no quarrel with that but perhaps it would be nice if he kept his opinions to himself as voicing them here adds nothing to our knowledge and is very very boring. We hear a lot of opinions from him but very few facts.

Now, it is my opinion that flying an over sized bird at normal sized quarry is unsporting. I do not see the sense in carrying around, say, a 3lb goshawk which should be more than capable of taking a 3lb rabbit or a 2.5lb goshawk when a smaller bird would do the same in a more sporting manner.

On the other hand, taking this quarry with a good male or small female would be a better match and should give better sport.

I fly my hawk as I wish and as suits the ground and quarry I fly. As a matter of fact, I have a surplus of cock pheasants and may have to resort to knocking them off with a .22 rifle. So why not kill them with a hawk any way I can? It is called "game management" and if our Thick friend knew a bit more about the countryside he would know that it is routine policy on some shoots to catch up surplus cock pheasants, ring their necks, and sell them to the game dealer.

As for my gos self-hunting, there is not much danger of that as I TRAIN my birds and animals. But that is another thing Mick doesn't seem to know much about which is why he sneers at passagers and only flies imprints.

Sport is not about "wacking stuff" or clocking up big scores to most of us. Not, apparently, to Mick who brags about killing "1,000 rabbits with one goshawk". Jeezus! Who is counting? I don't even keep a game book! If that turns you on, go work in an abattoir.

Whether I let my hawk fly out if a tree is my business. Whether I fly my hawk at woodcock or not is my business. In a previous post, you inferred that there was something stupid about flying a hawk at woodcock, presumably because it is a difficult quarry. Again, Mick demonstrates that he knows very little about sport.

I have no doubt that Mick is an excellent parrot breeder, sorry -- correction -- goshawk breeder, but he knows absolutely nothing about sportsmanship outside of a brawl in the public bar.

As I've said before, **** off or grow up.




Christ Derry

Bit touchy tonight aren't we,

Why should i keep my opinions to myself ? do you ? this is a public forum what shall we all agree ?

Goshawks are sprinters and should be matched against quarry equal to them, to see a Gos overhaul Game birds in fair law, is a site to behold,

to see a Gos drop onto a Pheasant from a tree in my book not sport,

if you look back at your posts it sounds like already your Gos is waiting for the re flush, already he has Learned that its much easier to kill from trees than to overhaul in fair flight,

This is all down to inexperience on your part, and what you have trained your bird to expect,

if the kill is more important to you than a good sporting flight, then best of luck and i hope you are happy with that, and i hope you catch your woodcock from a tree, Christ its only took you 40 odd years :oops:


like i said quality is a word that has different meanings.


all that and not a personal insult,


I am willing to offer a Field meet next season to see just what you call sportsmanship,

any takers, ? after all that's were it counts in the field not behind the keyboard.

so cum on Derry get your name down, someone has seen you fly a Hawk or Falcon surley to god.

[Natch]

FAIR SHOUT BC

[M & J Raptors]

Jack when you train a gos does it just fly and grab its quarry or it runs after it once its on the ground or if it gets in the bushes?

If the gos does not catch in the air or immediately the quarry puts in, in my country the quarry is usually lost. But the country I hunt is planted with young trees and the ground cover is very thick. At first, my gos tried to catch them on foot but he soon learned to fly to a tree. Usually, if the gos misses and the quarry puts in, the gos will take stand nearby. I trained my hawk to wait near the put in by rewarding it. Then, if I want, I can sometimes reflush with the dogs -- but usually a pheasant will run in the cover and be lost. I do not re-flush hen pheasants but I do re-flush cocks (roosters) because they are difficult enough for a male goshawk.
Then sometimes the dogs may find it again and point it, usually 15 - 20 yards from the put in. But then the pheasant knows it is discovered and will fly off as quickly as possible before the hawk can get up! My quarry is mostly pheasants. After they have been flown a few times, they get very clever. But I hunt for sport, so that is OK. I get another flight another day!

My gos is captive bred but the last three seasons he got flown almost every day during the season. In November I try to catch woodcock but no kills yet. They are very difficult! I think it is only possible with a good pointing dog and letting the hawk fly out of a tree. Do you have woodcock?

Derry


Read it you wrote it


can any other Gos chap help Derry with his problem, has i see your gos is already waiting for the reflush, already in his mind during the first flight hes looking to tree up, why ? because has you say by rewarding it, how did you do this ?

[Jack Merlin]

Mick,

So far as I am concerned, you represent the yob element that modern falconry could well do without; the bar room loud mouth who shouts down any opinion but his own and sneers at learning and knowledge.

The only one good thing I can say about you is that you appear to have a sense of humour if you seriously believe I would be interested in spending any time in your company.

Falconry is not a competition and I certainly have nothing to prove to a congenital idiot like you. For one last time, I do not have the slightest interest in your opinion. As you have nothing useful to contribute I would be very grateful if you would also try to avoid replying to my posts. (We'd hate to keep you from your admirers!)

As I have said before, why not go back to ukgoshawkers? As there is no one there these days, you could always talk to yourself. You seem quite good at that.

[M & J Raptors]

Mick,

So far as I am concerned, you represent the yob element that modern falconry could well do without; the bar room loud mouth who shouts down any opinion but his own and sneers at learning and knowledge.

The only one good thing I can say about you is that you appear to have a sense of humour if you seriously believe I would be interested in spending any time in your company.

Falconry is not a competition and I certainly have nothing to prove to a congenital idiot like you. For one last time, I do not have the slightest interest in your opinion. As you have nothing useful to contribute I would be very grateful if you would also try to avoid replying to my posts. (We'd hate to keep you from your admirers!)

As I have said before, why not go back to ukgoshawkers? As there is no one there these days, you could always talk to yourself. You seem quite good at that.


I will take that means you cannot make the field meet then,

i could make sure the venue is well wooded, :lol: cum on Derry make a name for yourself and lets see what you call sport.

i see you did not last long on UK Gos, i have your introduction post, it would make good reading on here but i will save you the embarrassment.

ignore my questions but they are constructive to Goshawking are they
not ?


so long and keep spilling the bull.

[Moses]

lets be friends shall we

talk about whos kebab is bigger, u circumsized derry :D what about u bc

[Jack Merlin]

has i see your gos is already waiting for the reflush

There is no "H" in "as".
So it is "As I see your gos".
On the other hand, there is an H in "has" (possessive) as in "I have, you have, he HAS, they have, you have, they have".
Got it now? A small point but it does make you stand out as an idiot and I'm sure you would rather conceal the fact.

Yes, my hawk is waiting at the put in because I trained him to wait at the put in. Presumably, you want your hawk off self-hunting, or on his way back to where the flight started which is equally as dangerous as you might flush stuff on your way to reach him.

Just one of the little wrinkles I learnt from those musty old falconry books you don't read.

What do you want your hawk to do at the put in, then? Sit on the ground? That makes a lot of sense when I have already said where I fly there is a lot of ground cover (rose bay willow herb). You'd never find the bird!

Why don't you just **** off and spread your "pearls of wisdom" where they are appreciated? I have been training birds and animals since before you were born and my experience is not limited to imprints and captive breds, and I've even trained 12 year olds so can deal with the likes of you.

Ye gods this is getting boring. Surely he can't be banned from ALL the bars in the Midlands?

[North East Harris Hawker]

it would be nice if he kept his opinions to himself as.....
I if our Thick friend knew a bit....
...
As I've said before, **** off or grow up.

no need for this....

[North East Harris Hawker]

congenital idiot like you. .

neither is this, everyone is entitled to an opinion on here but name calling and obscenities is overstepping the line. if you dont like what you read and you cant control your temper jack merlin, best you stay out of this thread...
or log off for half an hour, have a brew and calm down :wink:
you know it makes sense

[M & J Raptors]

has i see your gos is already waiting for the reflush

There is no "H" in "as".
So it is "As I see your gos".
On the other hand, there is an H in "has" (possessive) as in "I have, you have, he HAS, they have, you have, they have".
Got it now? A small point but it does make you stand out as an idiot and I'm sure you would rather conceal the fact.

Yes, my hawk is waiting at the put in because I trained him to wait at the put in. Presumably, you want your hawk off self-hunting, or on his way back to where the flight started which is equally as dangerous as you might flush stuff on your way to reach him.

Just one of the little wrinkles I learnt from those musty old falconry books you don't read.

What do you want your hawk to do at the put in, then? Sit on the ground? That makes a lot of sense when I have already said where I fly there is a lot of ground cover (rose bay willow herb). You'd never find the bird!

Why don't you just **** off and spread your "pearls of wisdom" where they are appreciated? I have been training birds and animals since before you were born and my experience is not limited to imprints and captive breds, and I've even trained 12 year olds so can deal with the likes of you.

Ye gods this is getting boring. Surely he can't be banned from ALL the bars in the Midlands?

Deery Derry

Your losing it man get a grip,

how did you train him to wait at the put in ?

12 year old boys eh, no wonder you been a bachelor for so long :shock:

[Moses]

u know when i first came in this forum, i never ever knew i will come across these kind of threads, i always get a shock of my life here :D

i thought it was only us young ones having flame wars in car forums :D

u guys beat us all , i was expecting old guys drinking whisky and talking about sport and sitting next to fires having cakes and scratching their wrinkly baws

i was proven wrong :D

[JackWelsh2005]

i agree they are off they heads i only asked if i should hood a harris hawk or not

[Moses]

so lets all calm down now and have a coffee

http://www.mediachance.com/realdraw/gallery/Coffee%20Cup.jpg

[M & J Raptors]

Thread done for me, i will leave the old timer in peace. for now anyway :wink:

[Jack Merlin]

NEHH,

Mick Kane has been targetting me ever since I was on ukgoshawkers. I will always defend myself if I am attacked, even though it may take a while for me to get sufficiently annoyed.

I have already appealed to two moderators to sort this out, but no action. I thought that was what moderators were for?

So far as I can recall I have only posted "opinions" which Mick says is alright. So if he is not objecting, where is the problem? If he can do it, why the double standards? Just look at his previous posts. Everyone else is aware of them. And I am not conscious of posting any "obscenities".

Perhaps you should have a word with Mick who started this fight in the first place with his repeated attacks on my book, "The Short-Winged Hawk", and Edmund Bert's thoughts on training goshawks? And he has not even read either the original book or my own transcription so why should anyone be interested in what he says?

It is really very simple. I am not the slightest bit interested in Mick's opinion so if he will stop popping up and putting his oar in every time I post, all will again be restored to peace and tranquility. If he continues to go out of his way to annoy me (and, yes, he can be very clever and subtle about that!) I will defend myself in the best way I know how. His choice. As the saying goes, "Don't mess with the Press".

[OutFlying]

Attacked - where was this Jack ? asked questions maybe but attacked I don't think so. You post your opinions (as is your right) but seem to take exception when anyone asks you why or to expand on your theories. Why post on a forum if you can't expand or debate a point ?

When asked a decent question you choose to ignore (your right again) and turn the thread into a personnel quarrel, why not logically give a straight answer and the debate on different training methods could provide a decent thread ----- some people might presume you haven't any answers to the questions and just throw insults out to divert attention. But it seems that once asked a question, you are unable to reply without name calling or a bitchy comment.

Going back to your book, which you happily quote from. Nobody from what I've read has said Bert has written bad advice, but times have changed and the types of goshawk available has also changed. Bert listed problems with eyasses and you have quoted but you fail to acknowledge that they aren't the same as todays eyass.

[Jack Merlin]

OutFlying, or should I say Jim Entwistle?

The subject was "What is sporting?"

Do you agree that flying a goshawk at pheasants in September is both unsporting, illegal, and likely to bring our sport (that word again) into disrepute?

If you hear of such conduct, and have evidence of it, what would you consider your duty to be? Do you report it to the police? To the RSPB? To the BFC? I would seriously like to have your advice as I rather think it should be reported to all three and then be written up in the press as an example to all others.

Has (!) I have said before, I am not going to answer Mick's questions on this forum as they are argumentative and provocative and not designed to increase our knowledge. So why do you keep on and on asking the same things?

Rather, as a writer and author, I will put my thoughts into print and make some money out of the story which, in the light of your interest, quite a few editors should be willing to pay to publish.

[OutFlying]

Do whatever you think is required Derry,
If you can't answer a simple question and need to turn it into something personnel then carry on. But which of my questions where threatening or below your level of knowledge to answer ? None - you don't like to be questioned upon your statements and if it appears that you will be wrong on your assuptions you then turn the question around rather than admit a point and then discuss it further.

But from your replies I now have a fuller picture of the person answering. I won't be bothering to ask any more questions as you obviously don't know.

Yours Jim ( as many of my posts have been signed, never been a secret ).

[Falcon]

Ok chaps can we get back on thread please, if you want to have a school squabble do it via pm. all the best :lol: :wink:

[Jack Merlin]

Couldn't agree more. I don't know how many times I have stated that I am not going to answer Jim and Mick's questions as they clearly just want to have an argument. How difficult is it for this message to get through?

I think one of the main things about hooding is that the hood should fit properly and be comfortable for the hawk. That is a point that a lot of novice falconers do not understand. I am very fussy about this and have upset a few hood makers by being picky!

The main points are contact with the cere or lips of a hawk, also in front of the eyes. The hood should not touch any area of the cere at the beak opening. If the hawk's eye are watering or the hood is damp inside, there is contact and if left, the hawk will eventually go blind.

Then there are the braces. For some reason, some braces always seem to catch one or two feathers at the nape which get pulled out. I am sure the hawk doesn't find that pleasant.

Anything that makes a hawk feel uncomfortable will tend to make it hood shy and then you will have double the problems getting it on in the first place.

Just a few ideas. Hoods should be judged on the above points and not on how pretty they are. See picture. As ugly as sin but made by the late Jack Mavrogordato and a perfect fit on a peregrine falcon!

[GriffMJ]

Any 1 want a mavro pattern hood ....I make em :)

[M & J Raptors]

Attacked - where was this Jack ? asked questions maybe but attacked I don't think so. You post your opinions (as is your right) but seem to take exception when anyone asks you why or to expand on your theories. Why post on a forum if you can't expand or debate a point ?

When asked a decent question you choose to ignore (your right again) and turn the thread into a personnel quarrel, why not logically give a straight answer and the debate on different training methods could provide a decent thread ----- some people might presume you haven't any answers to the questions and just throw insults out to divert attention. But it seems that once asked a question, you are unable to reply without name calling or a bitchy comment.

Going back to your book, which you happily quote from. Nobody from what I've read has said Bert has written bad advice, but times have changed and the types of goshawk available has also changed. Bert listed problems with eyasses and you have quoted but you fail to acknowledge that they aren't the same as todays eyass.


James

I have come to the conclusion that the man is a raving lunatic, he will only answer questions he has the answers to, and the ones which he cannot or will not, he responds with personal abuse, or changes the topic.

absolutely unbelievable.

save your breath Jim, hes not worth it, i would love to get him on a Field meet, and end all this, but no Chance of that.

Derry get some help soon, before it too late.

[North East Harris Hawker]

spot on there sparrow, no need for all the "beaching" its not even constructive arguments over the thread title. so if you want to have go at each other ladies do it via pm otherwise I'll lock it back down.
last chance.

[Tim Laycock]

Has any one ever tried making a manned down Harris to the hood??
I believe a manned down Harris is more difficult to hood than a manned down Goshawk.

I think the most dificult bird to mace to the hood is the Sparrowhawk, Manned or not, P/R or otherwise!

[North East Harris Hawker]

t5hose spars are so small and quick i can imagine hooding one would be a right pain in the a$$ !

[Sean]

if u were to hood a harris, should u train it to the hood before or after manning? ive seen in a few books and in a dvd that you should use the hood for the first few days, but i was thinking this doesnt do anything except prevent bating? because teh hawk doesnt get use to its surroundings

[Ali]

Hooding a passage saker is only problem for a few hours or a day though we dont hood them at once when they are trapped we seel them then place the hood for just a few seconds then take it off we keep on doing this for a few hours and while this is done the hood stays lose we dont tighten it from the back and after a day we unseel the bird and hood it by that time it accepts the hood very comfortably, though never had any experience with a HH or RT coz we dont have them here in Pakistan
Ali

[Mary Quite Contrary]

[quote="Blackbird"]Has any one ever tried making a manned down Harris to the hood??
I believe a manned down Harris is more difficult to hood than a manned down Goshawk.









That would be me. I hooded mine after her second season

[Wightwings]

have also hooded a manned hawk.....they dont like it initially as dont most birds but if done patiently can be done without too much stress.

goota ask the question why you would need to without specific reasons first before you do it tho most HH are fine without.

[Varmint]

but i was thinking this doesnt do anything except prevent bating? because teh hawk doesnt get use to its surroundings

Rem that manning isnt a race, there will be plenty of time to get used to the surroundings after the first couple of days training and stresses are out of the way.

Dont forget stress in the early times can and will kill a HH if too much too soon?

Yep a hood is an early stage tool, but also a life long aid to many situations and it's constructive use far outweighs the reasons for not using it!

Hooding Hh's can be hard, esp birds never made to the hood and requires perfect hooding technique, something that most beginners dont posses?

[GriffMJ]

Jim Nelson's book 'Hoods, Hooding and Hoodmaking' ( Western Sporting
Publications) should be published shortly and will contain many aspects of the hood.

Jim Nelson is a long established hood maker in the US and is considered one of the greats of the art. He is also en established falconer.

I will let you know when its out ....

[Sean]

hi varmint
if it prolongs the training, will this increase the chances of screaming?

[Varmint]

No Sean, what will increase the chances of screaming will be keeping your eyass screwed down in weight over prolonged periods without any mental stimulation or daily progessive kills.

Dont fool yourself kid, if you are hopeing that your first Harris will be absolutley silent?

Your biggest hurdle will be trying to find the amount of game needed for daily flights as i understand it?

[Sean]

Ill be starting to get a bit of permission soon, got some 3rd party insurance now so the farmers wont have any excuse to say no :D. Another reason why im wanting a male is i'll hopefully be able to take crows, theres plenty of those around lol

[Ben C]

I didn't hood Cody properly until he was flying free and then realised I had made a big mistake, becuase of an incident with crossing a road. So even though Emma Ford's book said it was difficult to 'late stage' hood I gave it a go.

We spent about 3 days getting the hood progressively closer and closer to him, then spent a few days rubbing his chest, feeding him from it (as in putting food in it), then we made it progressively harder and harder for him to get the food, so he was in fact putting his head into it himself.

Eventually we got him in it for brief periods, which were then extended. We gave him some small rewards but then gradually gave him nothing.
Now he is very steady in it, although he does a little suffle now and again. And bob up and down as any buteo does. Just a little time and effort and the ability to give up quickly if the hawk looked uncomfortable.

And I repeat a hood is one of the most elemental aspects of safety and manning. You owe it to your hawk or it will eventually bate away from things it doesn't like and towards things it does. And you have to ask yourself, is that fair? Also how on earth are you going to slip your hawk without a hood? :) :) :)

[Ben C]

That sounds as if I know what I am talking about.......I don't, it is just what I observed when Lucy and I trained him. Also it does look cool sean. :) :) :) :)

[Sean]

:)

[Tim Laycock]

That sounds as if I know what I am talking about.......I don't, it is just what I observed when Lucy and I trained him. Also it does look cool sean.

Good observation Ben!!
I think you pull yourself down too much :mrgreen:

[North East Harris Hawker]

mmm you guys have changed my mind a bit about the whole hooding issue, im gonna give it a go next season

[North East Harris Hawker]

mmm you guys have changed my mind a bit about the whole hooding issue, im gonna give it a go next season
MJ how much for one for my FHH killing weight 2lb4 start 2lb 8 finish?

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Everything must come form the hood if late hooding.

I.e no food, hunting , flying, manning,

Conditioned the hawk to think its a good thing and positive.

Its like when your bird jumps on to the scales, it does it because of routine and because it knows good times are ahead.

Make it sparkle when it sees the hood.

[GriffMJ]

Hi NEHH

The "Maynes Hawk Hood" is ideal for the FHH and is £45(inc P&P and Nylon Braces) :)

[North East Harris Hawker]

:oops: thats a bit more than i wanted to pay, i'll have a look at your site and see what else you have

[Gary.B]

Save up dude its a very nice hood :wink:

[Ben C]

However chuffpiece I was given another bit of advice. NEVER get it to jump to stuff otherwise you'll get bating towards things in the future. I had this minor problem which I ironed out quickly. :) :)

Because we have our permission outside our front door, I used to un-jess Cody get him to jump to my glove, jump to the scales then release him straight away. Now Bob Dalton in an article said he had the same 'easy relaxed fun' type of hunting. However when he moved house the hawk took the behaviour with it. YOU guessed it, everytime it was on the glove off the perch it bated towards stuff.

"If I should set her upon a perch, whensoever it were in her sight she would bate to go to it; I ask what is the difference between bating to the perch, and bating to fly from all things else?

Now this is a little out of context I know, but this is from edmund berts 'training the short winged hawk', an essentiallly it means get the ****** used to one thing at a time and get it sitting still!!! Otherwise you'll have a badly manned hawk. Not bad for 1619.

What this has to do with hood I don't know..............yes I do, its all about manning the hawk properly, hood etc etc. :) :) :) :)

[MickeyDredd]

However chuffpiece I was given another bit of advice. NEVER get it to jump to stuff otherwise you'll get bating towards things in the future. I had this minor problem which I ironed out quickly. :) :)


Very good advice BenC :)

[North East Harris Hawker]

i must confess i have allowed my bird to get into this habit.
i walk into the garage and she flies from one end to the other onto the scales, once weighed i open her box (other end of the garage) and she flies from the perch into the box
i like it personnally but then if i take her into the garage for "surgery time" talons/beaks clipping and filing/etc she does bate at the scales.
a little bit miffing but something i can put up with. 8)

[Ben C]

It is very easy to do because it does look good, and LOOKS like good manning, i.e "it is doing this because it is trained etc etc" But I am of the opinion that most "ticks" like this can be stopped, or de-creased. Look at it as reverse manning and give it a go.......................HARK at ME! Philip Glasier before lunchtime!!!!:) :) :):)

[Mary Quite Contrary]

[quote="BenC"]However chuffpiece I was given another bit of advice. NEVER get it to jump to stuff otherwise you'll get bating towards things in the future. I had this minor problem which I ironed out quickly. :) :)

Because we have our permission outside our front door, I used to un-jess Cody get him to jump to my glove, jump to the scales then release him straight away. Now Bob Dalton in an article said he had the same 'easy relaxed fun' type of hunting. However when he moved house the hawk took the behaviour with it. YOU guessed it, everytime it was on the glove off the perch it bated towards stuff.

"If I should set her upon a perch, whensoever it were in her sight she would bate to go to it; I ask what is the difference between bating to the perch, and bating to fly from all things else?












Ben C

Tree-------barking------------------wrong one.

My post didnt say to get your bird to jump to stuff or onto the scales.

It's in the words old boy. Make you bird sparkle inside and she will flow.

[Ben C]

.

Its like when your bird jumps on to the scales, it does it because of routine and because it knows good times are ahead.



I assumed that was what you were saying with this mate. WOOF WOOF

[Mary Quite Contrary]

.

Its like when your bird jumps on to the scales, it does it because of routine and because it knows good times are ahead.



I assumed that was what you were saying with this mate. WOOF WOOF



ARE YOU BARKING AT ME BEN C

Never assume, i learnt that through being marriage.

Its the reason the bird does it , not because you have trained the bird to do it.

know wot i mean Arry , huh huh huh

[Ben C]

True my mate. But the reason it does hops to the scales will not change the fact that it will then carry this behaviour forward, and bate towards objects if you are like me. NOT VERY CLEVER :) :) :)

Ding Ding Dingalingaling Round 3! BARK! WOOF! :) :) :)

[North East Harris Hawker]

you looneys! im not planning on moving anywhere again, this house im in should be the last one i buy, poppy doesent bate a great deal when i take her out on field meets, when its just her and me though she is flown following on in most cases anyway 8)

[Ben C]

How long you had her though :) :).....Mr Dalton said that the problems didn't start to manifest themselves to a bad level until the 3RD SEASON!!!!!!!! The it became a real drag!!!!! :) :) :)

BARK WOOF WAGGLE WAGGLE :) :) :)

As I say NEHH, you could be completely fine, ALL of what I write is specific to me and no other hawker. If you are happy then so be it, most of these things are very tiny in the whole scale of things anyway.

Do you walk with Poppy (nice name!) at these meets without a hood??

:) :) :)

[Mary Quite Contrary]

True my mate. But the reason it does hops to the scales will not change the fact that it will then carry this behaviour forward, and bate towards objects if you are like me. NOT VERY CLEVER :) :) :)

Ding Ding Dingalingaling Round 3! BARK! WOOF! :) :) :)


Arrgh Mr Dalton of the falcon leisure clan you talk of.

HHmm well i enjoyed the talk he gave at my club last year.

I am talking about the Root not the flower.

No prob with de bird b8ting guv!

she sparkles like the sun on a winters days


However if Mr dalton is right i will eat my birds mutes in a crusty bloomer. :roll:

[GriffMJ]

However if Mr dalton is right i will eat my birds mutes in a crusty bloomer.

lmao Chuff

[Gozzhawk]

hood everything , make your own , dont buy cheap leather and make sure when you make an arse of it it's someone elses bird!! Covered!!

[North East Harris Hawker]

Do you walk with Poppy (nice name!) at these meets without a hood??

:) :) :)

heheh! thank you! (its cos she is a girl) 8) yes she is fine to be walked with unhooded, ok she bates when its not her slip but so does everyone elses

[Ben C]

Tis true, Mr Dalton of the clan dalton of shire leisure alot, a most respected if slightly grumpy clan. And from the scriputres of the said Lord Dalton I quote:

"Now my built-in fault manifested itself......It wasn't as if she was disobediant or hated the fist; it was just she wanted to get on with hunting"
(to set it in context the hawk flew straight from the weathering after NOT being put on the fist)
For further reading please check April 28th 'The Countrymans Weekly'

However I still think stopping and getting the hawk to step up and down at each SIGNIFICANT place is the best way for ME. And I emphasise ME.

Good luck my knoble lord Chuffy.......you may now go in peace from this virtual place. :) :) :) :) :)

[North East Harris Hawker]

i always have to laugh at his first video when he blows the stop whistles for his dogs and they just gallop off after hawk/quarry heheheh!

[Ben C]

NEHH,
Having not been to these meets everyone raves about I do not know the protocol. I have read about it of course. But wouldn't it be sensible to hood your bird between slips so it doesn't bate? Or am I missing something in my interpretation of field meets. :):)

[North East Harris Hawker]

yes it would be handy,which is why im gonna give it a go next season 8)

[Ben C]

Aaahhhh I thought so. :D :bear: :bear: :fball:

[North East Harris Hawker]

you see! old dogs DO learn new tricks :lol:

[MickeyDredd]

i always have to laugh at his first video when he blows the stop whistles for his dogs and they just gallop off after hawk/quarry heheheh!

Yeah, and then it cuts to him blowing the whistle and his dog sitting as it should - when there are no bunnies around for it to chase alongside the hawks :!: :o :o

[Tim Laycock]

Known Bob Dalton since I was eight years old.

Large pinch of salt required with any BD omissions :!:

[Ben C]

BB..................don't say that mate, your craking the thin ice of faith in a respected older gent! His Aplomado Vid was great, and his weekly writing in the countrymans (although a bit moany) are a good read.

AND I MEAN THIS SERIOUSLY, NOT AS A **** TAKE. HE KNOWS HIS STUFF FELLAS C'MON, LEAVE THIS WITH ME BOYS. DON'T F**K THIS LAST DREAM OF FALCONRY HONESTY UP!

:) :)

[Tim Laycock]

Sorry Ben but I stick to my guns.
I will give you that, The man is good with a pen.
But I could tell you a story or two that would melt your "thin ice" mate.

[Wightwings]

AND.........................NOOOOOO dont go there BB many a budding falconers awe would be shattered......... :roll: :shock:

[Tim Laycock]

Too right WW.
I realise this is not the appropriate place for the tales I have to tell :wink:

I have many of these tales. Lets see how leathered I get at the B'Day bash :lol:

[Ben C]

RIGHT.........................BAR KEEP, Give that handsome man TIM a juggard of ale and send him my way........for proffessional reasons only :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

:D :wink: :lol:

[TheGosHawking]

Hooding is something that carnt be ignored what if your on a field meet and un birds un hooded on your fist and a pheasent busted it gunna go crazy HOODING is essential if you go on field meets

[Tim Laycock]

:D I find this too M8!
However some dont and thats cool with me 8)

[M & J Raptors]

Hooding is something that carnt be ignored what if your on a field meet and un birds un hooded on your fist and a pheasent busted it gunna go crazy HOODING is essential if you go on field meets

Never needed to hood any of my Gosses in the last 18 years, and i have been on a few Field meets in my time, :wink:
so not essential,

in fact i have only ever seen 1 gos hooded on a meet, and when he took it off his Gos bated from his fist constantly, so guess what he did, he put it back on problem solved :shock:

just one question how do you bring you Gos into Yarak with a hood on :?:

[Falconry Equipment International]

just one question how do you bring you Gos into Yarak with a hood on :?:
Hi BC/ mick, This made me think , how many listers truly understand what yarak is??? I have heard talk of Harrises being in yarak!( just being deivlis advocate here<BG> trying to promote a proper understanding of the word )
regards
SJ

[M & J Raptors]

just one question how do you bring you Gos into Yarak with a hood on :?:
Hi BC/ mick, This made me think , how many listers truly understand what yarak is??? I have heard talk of Harrises being in yarak!( just being deivlis advocate here<BG> trying to promote a proper understanding of the word )
regards
SJ

Hi Julian

Yarak is a word that is not used much in modern Falconry, and i doubt that some do not really know what it means, i for one still use it for Gosses and i have seen many Gos in good yarak but many not,

and most Gosses still need to be brought into yarak, before hawking.


BC

[Tim Laycock]

and most Gosses still need to be brought into yarak, before hawking

You will almost certainly be in the **** if it isnt :lol:

[Kevin Massey]

Moved from GFT

[Eagle Dares]

i think there are more pros than cons to having a bird made to the hood, for HH as much as any others. if it's done properly then it's only a bonus, there's nothing to lose providing it's done properly and i find it can always be made use of.
as an example to demonstrate my point: i was out hawking some months back when one of the female HH went across the lake, over some land where we don't have permission and out of sight. by the time we had got round there was no sign. with the help of the transmitter we picked her up a couple of miles away soon after. she is made to the hood and so was hooded for the trek back home which made road crossings and fence hopping much easier on her and me both.
i can understand the arguement that hoodeed hawks loose out on manning and so suffer from being hooded unneccessarily but imho a balance can be found

[Mark Collins]

Never used to hood me harris hawks or goss, even in the car , this was before carrying boxes came out, the more a hawk sees the better it gets was always my policy , went to field meets all over the country , dont think hooding is a bad thing , but its certainly not essential.

[Sprout]

If the bird is made to the hood, you have that option to use it. You never know when that ONE time it might have been useful crops up as an emergency.