gyr/saker versus gyr/peregrine

[BlueHawk]

So, what are the subtle nuances between them both, I've heard so many good things about these hybrids, but what are your experiences of them and for those lucky enough to have one of each, what is their difference in style, wing loading, attitude and temprament? And if you're pushed which one is best for you and why?

[Varmint]

Hi Bluehawk, what you are really asking is to compare two birds which to all intents and purposes might as well be diff species?

The Gyr/Peri is prob one of the fastest and tenatiouse hybrids in the world and makes an ideal Game Hawk being naturally very buoyant and Tend to fly more like the peregrine but with a slightly more reserved attitude esp in their first season.

The Gyr/SAk makes for a more natural tail chaser having very pig pectoral muscles and massive reserves of energy for flying stuff down, a bit more like the Gyr.

There is no "Best", just horses for courses depending on what you want to catch and in which sort of terraine?

[BlueHawk]

Cheers Varmint

Wasn't asking "best", just best for you, that's all. We all have different agendas.

I'm interested to see where hybrids fit in between pure bred species and where there advantages and disadvantages are. Ethics aside, why for instance wouldn't you just take a pure gyrkin as opposed to a hybrid or even the tribrids I've read about?

Do you get variation when the donor male is peregrine or saker? I know about hybrid vigour, but are there downsides?

I'm at your mercy here as I have no experience in this field, only read a lot (for what it's worth). Just nice to get some 1st hand views.

[Varmint]

For me personally mate, i find that hybrids tend to be more controllable than pure species, esp in ythe early stages of entering; being less inclined to just charge in!

This can be of particular use to the beginner who would easily lose a bird such as a gyr or peregrine self hunting?

Peregrine tends to improve anything it is put into, where as Gyr add size and raw power.

These big hybrids need a lot of room to really sparkle, but i think the worldwide demand for these big hybrids speak volumes.

[Falconry Equipment International]

BH Varmint speaks eruditely and concisely on this. Only thing I would add is that I have seen folk whom are not game hawkers by any stretch of the immagination , fly PXG or PXS etc and the hawk has made them look mighty fine gamehawkers, with no disrispect meant to those facloners. Their propensity to make pitch can be awesome, esp the males & this can laos be said at the beginning with pure peregrines with tiercels showing a natural talent also to make pitch. With falcons they can often be quite slow on the uptake in comparrison. ( why do I fle Pure pere females for my own pleasure... should not be too difficult to work out!) :yawinkle:

[BlueHawk]

Thanks SJ

This is when the forum actually works for me, it seems to be (often) full of egotistic SOBs who seem only interested in blowing their own trumpet, rather than sharing opinions and sharing actual fact in a constructive way which we can get some benefit from.

My own view is that we all should have a common goal, to improve our art in whatever form we pursue it.

Unfortunately we cannot police the people who bring falconry into disrepute, or do the bulk of their business from the armchair or PC. The only reason I'm on the forum is because we're in the moult, my new bird is still in down and I've finished my book, otherwise I'd be out doing it rather than talking about it.

And no, I don't think you're slow on the uptake (I've read a lot of your posts!)..

Cheers

Big G

[Falconry Equipment International]

Thanks SJ
This is when the forum actually works for me, it seems to be (often) full of egotistic SOBs who seem only interested in blowing their own trumpet, rather than sharing opinions and sharing actual fact in a constructive way which we can get some benefit from.

Hi BH I am very confused & not sure whether you are deriding or congratulating me although as I read through you you post it seem to be more of the former.I do hope you do not think I am an "egotistic SOB" although it seem to be that most with even a modicum of experience & learning ( myself included) could be certainly deemed as being self opinionated at best. If this is being levied at me then I am very embarrassed, I know I can be cantankerous, and certainly do not suffer fools gladly, however if someone shows genuine interest and passion for the sport then i like to think , with tenacity the beginner would see through any 'pomposity" i may have & then find I am fully supportive of their introduction into the sport.
Please note my comments which were supposed to be of help and that you seem to have taken offense to(unless of course I have misread your posts which well may be the case, what with my dyslexia) . These are also only my words and where certainly not meant to be derogatory or unsavory to any one on the list regardless of their experience in Falconry..
My own view is that we all should have a common goal, to improve our art in whatever form we pursue it.
I quite agree
Unfortunately we cannot police the people who bring falconry into disrepute, or do the bulk of their business from the armchair or PC.
Absolutely , where was this being discussed????
I don't understand what you are getting at here?
The only reason I'm on the forum is because we're in the moult, my new bird is still in down and I've finished my book, otherwise I'd be out doing it rather than talking about it
.I know the fealing, if you noticed when I joined ( after the end of teh season!

And no, I don't think you're slow on the uptake (I've read a lot of your posts!)..
so what does this mean!!!!

Cheers

Big G
I look forward to the piublication of your book where when I read it I may be able to glean more imformation that may help to improve my ablities as a falconer
CYA SJ

[BlueHawk]

SJ

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, no, I'm not having a pop at you or Varmint, in fact the reverse is true. Its just I read so many posts from some members who do actually have good understanding but are on to indulge themselves, its just a personal rant that was a bit off thread.

Thought the slow on uptake comment was on your own self depracation because female pure peregrines are the same as you!!

And, no I won't be writing a book unless its "The compleat guide to being a novice falconer who needs about 20years more experience before he can have an opinion on anything.." What do you think? Catchy? :lol:

ATB

G

[Falconry Equipment International]

SJ

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression,
Hi BH/ G thatts ok , but don't you think, this is part of the problem with email etc rather than speaking to someone face to face ,IMHO as it is very difficult to put words down that may not be misinterpreted by others :roll:
no, I'm not having a pop at you or Varmint, in fact the reverse is true. Its just I read so many posts from some members who do actually have good understanding but are on to indulge themselves, its just a personal rant that was a bit off thread.
Ok I Know what you mean 8)

Thought the slow on uptake comment was on your own self depracation because female pure peregrines are the same as you!! :lol: :lol:

And, no I won't be writing a book unless its "The compleat guide to being a novice falconer who needs about 20years more experience before he can have an opinion on anything.." What do you think? Catchy? :lol:
ATB
G :lol: :lol: Having said that of course experience and obtaining a certain understanding & 'feel' for both falconry and the hawks themselves( can't think at the mo' how to put thus succinctly, Hopefully you have got the jist of what I am trying to say, although I am sure Varmint could put it far more eruditely) is far more important than actual time spent in the sport, I hope this makes sense . ATB SJ

[Varmint]

A wise man once said it takes 10yrs to train a peregrine!

9 1/2 yrs to train the falconer and 6 mnths to train the bird, never a truer word spoken!

[Falconry Equipment International]

A wise man once said it takes 10yrs to train a peregrine!

9 1/2 yrs to train the falconer and 6 mnths to train the bird, never a truer word spoken! :lol: :lol: :lol: Although I wish i could train a peregrine as a made high pitching gamehawk in 6 months!, or nperhaps this shows ineptitude on my part :wink: :rolleyes: :yawinkle:

[BlueHawk]

Thank you chaps,

I hope to take some shortcuts by picking the brains of you with experience, but as you say some things can only be learned through touch and feel.

And absolutely, it is difficult to interpret a persons tone by the written word. I'll try to be a bit more careful in future..
:D

[Falconry Equipment International]

Thank you chaps,

I hope to take some shortcuts by picking the brains of you with experience, but as you say some things can only be learned through touch and feel.

And absolutely, it is difficult to interpret a persons tone by the written word. I'll try to be a bit more careful in future..
:D
Hi BH , Actually I thought it was me whom should be a little more careful as I misunderstood what you had written :roll: now I am getting really confused :rolleyes: hey ho , what ever you fly I wish you the very best of luck. ATB SJ

[BlueHawk]

Thanks SJ,

What do you guys think about hybrids and the future i.e. if they're easier to do and more accessible does it make them more open to the inexperienced for abuse, or can you level the same argument at all birds these days?

I eventually worked out for myself what bird I could fly was directly related to the kind of ground I have and my own circumstances (I will be a father of 5 in about 8wks). I would love to have a gos, but can't make the outright sacrifice to do one justice. The pere/saker I'm taking is absolutely ideal and fits me just now.

I've read a lot of posts about people wanting to have as broad a cross section of birds, picking something up for a couple of seasons then discarding them like a kids toy.

Again, I have to say good luck to them. But I hope to keep all of my birds till they fall off their perch (or I do!).

I have always been interested in people's motive and drive for enjoying what they do. Myself, I have been a climber, a Thai Boxer, played various sports all for different reasons all with different "highs", but falconry is much bigger than any of that, I was always fascinated by birds as a boy, but especially birds of prey and every season, when they go free and you have that tenuous link between them and nearly wild, well it just takes your breath away.

Again apologies for descending into deep and meaningful, but it is good when you speak to like minded people, who understand what it is that drives you..

Think I'll go and start a therapy group now.. :cry: :shock: :rolleyes:

[Varmint]

Yep, once it gets in your blood it's a bloody hard habit to break?

What are you gonna fly your hybrid at Bluehawk? have you any other longwing experience??

[Falconry Equipment International]

Thanks SJ,

What do you guys think about hybrids and the future i.e. if they're easier to do and more accessible does it make them more open to the inexperienced for abuse, or can you level the same argument at all birds these days?

I eventually worked out for myself what bird I could fly was directly related to the kind of ground I have and my own circumstances (I will be a father of 5 in about 8wks). I would love to have a gos, but can't make the outright sacrifice to do one justice. The pere/saker I'm taking is absolutely ideal and fits me just now.

I've read a lot of posts about people wanting to have as broad a cross section of birds, picking something up for a couple of seasons then discarding them like a kids toy.

Again, I have to say good luck to them. But I hope to keep all of my birds till they fall off their perch (or I do!).
Hmmmm I think we probably sing from the same songsheet here & I am not wanting to be elitist here,atleast as far as what walk of life you come from,how much wonga you have in your wallet or whether you belong to a certain clique in a falconry club etc etc but then I do feel in a utopian world that it would be ideal to have constraints about supply of these birds, dependant on the falconer's skill/ ability to get the best out of a particular species/ hybrid. Unfortunately I cannot ever see this happening :(
I have always been interested in people's motive and drive for enjoying what they do. Myself, I have been a climber, a Thai Boxer, played various sports all for different reasons all with different "highs", but falconry is much bigger than any of that, I was always fascinated by birds as a boy, but especially birds of prey and every season, when they go free and you have that tenuous link between them and nearly wild, well it just takes your breath away. Too true, as ex rugby player, xcountry runner,motorcycle racer & competitive water skier I beleive know where you are coming from & yes the highs are incredible.however there are equally as many deep deep lows and it is probably these that make the highs seem so fantastic. One thing I would say is that I do not consider falconry is competetive and tend to shy away from anything that makes it so.
Again apologies for descending into deep and meaningful, but it is good when you speak to like minded people, who understand what it is that drives you..
Think I'll go and start a therapy group now.. :cry: :shock: :rolleyes:
Hey I think its the moult blues!
ATB
SJ

[BlueHawk]

Yep, once it gets in your blood it's a bloody hard habit to break?

What are you gonna fly your hybrid at Bluehawk? have you any other longwing experience??

Going at the black stuff, no experience at all varmint, seen them going, thats all. Should see my ground though, corvid capital of Scotland!!

[Varmint]

Well rem mate, a good rook hawk must hood well and remain in good feather to do it's job, bit harder management than a HH so take your time and if you need any help, you just gotta ask! :wink:

[BlueHawk]

Well rem mate, a good rook hawk must hood well and remain in good feather to do it's job, bit harder management than a HH so take your time and if you need any help, you just gotta ask! :wink:

Don't you worry mate I'll be banging down the door..
I pass it once a fortnight anyway..
Looks like you have some prime ground in Perthshire anyway, although thought you might have difficulty getting on with the paid shooters.

[Bird_Dog]

Hi Varmit, I gather from the thread that a you might suggest a gyrXsaker hybrid for Rooks rather than a gyrXperegrine?? I've seen Nick Fox's hawking video on Rook hawking. There are opportunities to flight Crows in West Texas, but WNV is a concern. Rooks are larger than Crows, right??. Large flocks of Crows will congregate in open winter wheat fields. The thought of 200 Crow mobbing my falcon... I think I'll stick to ducks and upland game. What about Cattle Egrets? They migrate out in early fall, but setting up the slip might be similar to Rooks.

-- BIRD_DOG

[OutFlying]

rooks are smaller

[Varmint]

Hi Bird dog, Yep Rooks are smaller and crows tend to congregate in smaller groups or pairs.

Most good rook hawks eventually end up mounting anyway, so the transition between flown out of the hood and waiting on isnt a big one, The old Hawking club had some excellent partridge hawks which started out every spring on the rooks and then transferred over to this diff flight style in the autumn.

Rook Hawking is an option to those who dont have masses of game, but to answer your question bluehawk, if you cant beat em , join em!

I rent a sporting estate myself to guarentee some sport :wink: