Career in Falconry??

[Harris91]

Hello,
L8ly I have been seriously considering a career in Falconry but am unsure!Both my parents say tht there is no money in it and dnt regaurd it as a career so they dnt wnt me to persue it. I want to wrk in Wildlife and the Environment and had in mind a job on a nature reserve type thing perhaps as a warden or conservation officer??but arfter looking into it i have learnt that its a difficult area to get into as there are more applicants than there are postions avaliable plus every1 seems to need degrees nowdays!!...So anyways now im looking into a career in FALCONRY!

Has any1 any advice.....anything atal eg..routes into a job....types of wrk ??...ANYTHING!!!!!!!


I no Iv waffled on a bit soooooo rl shut uppp:oops::oops: haha


Thanks:supz:

[KJL]

Dont do it. Listen to your parents, find a well paid job.... Then when you have time and game consider taking up a hawk. Volunteer at a good centre and learn that way as you go.

[Harris91]

Thanks for your comment...iv done a course and stuff and am looking for a mentor perhaps?? I just think maybe in the furture I could be a display falconry sumwhere???

maybe ur right they du talk sense most of the tym haha !!!


Thanks agen

[David Rampling]

Too many go into a career as a display falconer without the many years of training it needs. You need a proper grounding in REAL falconry first. You need to be able to answer every question propperly, your standards need to be of the highest order. I am afraid the standard of displays in this country is appaling in many cases. Dont add to it. Get a proper job first and learn and enjoy your hawking, when you really know what you are doing, consider it again.

[Harris91]

Thanks ,,

I was never thinking of like my first job or neything like tht I was only thinking of a time in the distant future when I have lots of expirence in Falconry.

dnt worry i wudnt be dumb enough to apply rite now !!:lol::lol:lol

[Harris91]

thanks agen it was helpful!!

[David Rampling]

Thanks ,,

I was never thinking of like my first job or neything like tht I was only thinking of a time in the distant future when I have lots of expirence in Falconry.

dnt worry i wudnt be dumb enough to apply rite now !!:lol::lol:lol
Lol, sorry, didnt mean to jump on you!

[Harris91]

i no exactly wot u mean ...it was a helpful comment !:supz:

[Hawking]

You may want to consider other options.......I know one person who works with bop all day most day's of the week. He could fly any bird he wishs. He does not have his own bird or hunt anymore. Says he would rather do something else when he gets home from work. Not saying i agree with his take on it but it is some thing to think about.

You are obviously young yet, I say go with a degree...law or medicine. This way you have both the time and money to fly when, what, where and for as long as you like, to a very high standard with no expense spared. Better to have the time and money to do it right them always be short of either time or money, as you most certainly be if you do not choose your career wisely.

Of course there are the fortunate, hard working few, who get both....time and money and a career in falconry...............

Just my take on it.

Mike

[Seals]

To Make money in falconry you need a good base first a hand full of cash, plenty of land and good contacts in places such as dabi and country's like that.... who will pay good money for their birds (20 grand plus...)

[Island Lad]

Too many go into a career as a display falconer without the many years of training it needs. You need a proper grounding in REAL falconry first. You need to be able to answer every question propperly, your standards need to be of the highest order. I am afraid the standard of displays in this country is appaling in many cases. Dont add to it. Get a proper job first and learn and enjoy your hawking, when you really know what you are doing, consider it again.


What utter **** ! My missus manages a pub, I'm a cleaner at a local leisure center early in the morning and have been volunteering in falconry for just over two years and as of march will be payed to do the job I love. So firstly it all depends on the persons circumstances at the time, secondly Ive learned more in just a couple of years working with anything from American kestrels all the way up to golden eagles than I ever would hunting a Harris season after season. I consider it a proper job and these people (not suggesting your one of them) who catch the odd rabbit with a Harris but would brick it at the thought of flying, talking, reading weather conditions and keeping an eye on large crowds of people don't regard us as proper falconers. Nothing annoys me more. :evil: and believe it or not us display falconers actually hunt our birds as well !!

[Island Lad]

Thanks for your comment...iv done a course and stuff and am looking for a mentor perhaps?? I just think maybe in the furture I could be a display falconry sumwhere???

maybe ur right they du talk sense most of the tym haha !!!


Thanks agen

Mate, A local lad of 14 has recently taken on a female Harris hawk and yes he lives on a farm and yes he has supportive parents, but all he's ever learned from is reading books and the odd bit off advice from my boss. He'd never even picked up a bird before and through hard work, enthusiasm and spending lots of time with her he's ended up with a fantastic bird. So if its what you want to do weather it be your own bird or working at a center then just get out there and do it. Someone told me many years ago not to do it because its specialist, hard work and doesn't pay well, and I just though what a d**k head and now I'm doing what I :heart:. life's to short just to get up every day and do a job you hate.

p.s - ever thought about pest control ?

Steve

[Icarus Fell]

Hello,
L8ly I have been seriously considering a career in Falconry but am unsure!Both my parents say tht there is no money in it and dnt regaurd it as a career so they dnt wnt me to persue it. I want to wrk in Wildlife and the Environment and had in mind a job on a nature reserve type thing perhaps as a warden or conservation officer??but arfter looking into it i have learnt that its a difficult area to get into as there are more applicants than there are postions avaliable plus every1 seems to need degrees nowdays!!...So anyways now im looking into a career in FALCONRY!

Has any1 any advice.....anything atal eg..routes into a job....types of wrk ??...ANYTHING!!!!!!!


I no Iv waffled on a bit soooooo rl shut uppp:oops::oops: haha


Thanks:supz:


My opinion is - There isn't much money in falconry and there are only a few people doing VERY well for themselves but I suspect that a few others are doing ok at it. - very much the minority.
It is a career - I think that the recent economic climate has made some of us aware of how precarious a falconry career can be.

If you think that you want to work at a centre be careful - some centres are just ****. You'll not do much more that clean and fetch and carry. The thrill of working around birds will wear off quickly. Other centres are good and will teach you a lot if you can get a job there.

Pest control will require good abilities with a bird at the very least and probably experience flying - hunting and retrieving falcons - do you have that experience?

Breeding - You'll need space for aviaries, money to buy birds, incubators, artificial insemination knowledge, a safetly net if birds fail to breed. Or if you work for a breeder - you'll need the experience to do all of the above without having to fund it but you probably won't fly a bird at all in your job.

If the falconry career doesn't work out, then what?

Maybe just somethings to think about. At the start of a falconry career you'll work like a dog and not get paid much more.

[John Beaumont]

Another option is to become a volunteer on one of the high-profile raptor conservation projects around the world. Some of them have ornithological laboratories where the incubation and brooding is done and where you would learn avicultural skills; some projects are involved in other stages, such as hacking, and require hack site attendants to watch over youngsters and ensure that mongooses or wild raptors don't get them. Other projects are rehabilitation centres - there you would learn how best to set up your facility with weatherings, moult pens, breeding chambers and seclusion pens; I think the University of Minnesota's is where Pat Redig works and is a very eminent place where you may learn the application of falconry techniques in one of their widest possible contexts. You may find, for example, that, if you work as a volunteer on the San Diego Zoo California Condor Project you are learning applied avicultural skills/raptor conservation in a laboratory environment - you may discover that you have a passion for laboratory work or ornithology. That, in turn, could lead to your doing a degree at Oxford and joining Wildcru!
I've found that fieldwork is not sexy nor glamorous. Do it because you're a passionate field man or don't do it. Do it because you might get a paper out of it and therefore some professional kudos. But be prepared to be bitten, stung, sweaty, dirty, itchy, talked down to and other antisocial things.
I started out several years ago on the Mauritius kestrel project when that was at its highest profile (international team of raptor biologists; living in a tented camp in Maccabé forest, working as a voluntary hack site attendant and sometimes in the laboratory; killing things). Some of those personnel need no introduction and have remained where they are because they founded their respective organisations (eg Tom Cade); others have been lucky enough to remain as raptor biologists in the UK. Many were/are falconers.
After Mauritius I went on other projects and then did my degrees and then worked in admin before telling myself enough was enough and high-tailing it out to Brazil where I founded the Pantanal Institute. I now enjoy some involvement with Neotropical raptors, but raptor biology is not my bread-and-butter - yet. Instead, I teach and translate the work of other raptor biologists. We are developing other courses but it'll be a while before I'm a practicing raptor biologist or professional falconer or whatever. I just dig being around things with hooked beaks. On the plus side, I do love what I do now, even if it's not all creances and washed meat, all the time.
What I would definitely say, though, is travel and hook up with a genuine conservation project for a season, preferably in the tropics.

Hope this helps.

[Casper]

What utter **** ! My missus manages a pub, I'm a cleaner at a local leisure center early in the morning and have been volunteering in falconry for just over two years and as of march will be payed to do the job I love. So firstly it all depends on the persons circumstances at the time, secondly Ive learned more in just a couple of years working with anything from American kestrels all the way up to golden eagles than I ever would hunting a Harris season after season. I consider it a proper job and these people (not suggesting your one of them) who catch the odd rabbit with a Harris but would brick it at the thought of flying, talking, reading weather conditions and keeping an eye on large crowds of people don't regard us as proper falconers. Nothing annoys me more. :evil: and believe it or not us display falconers actually hunt our birds as well !!

To your response to David Rampling... David is spot on, in two years you will know nothing really. Your daft reply says it all.. Keeping an eye on large crowds?? Brick it?? Perhaps when you have done birds for as many years as David and myself then you will know how it works.. I bet you catch Woodcock all round when you are not displaying ...after few years experience. I expect a good response. Have a good think..

[Casper]

Mate, A local lad of 14 has recently taken on a female Harris hawk and yes he lives on a farm and yes he has supportive parents, but all he's ever learned from is reading books and the odd bit off advice from my boss. He'd never even picked up a bird before and through hard work, enthusiasm and spending lots of time with her he's ended up with a fantastic bird. So if its what you want to do weather it be your own bird or working at a center then just get out there and do it. Someone told me many years ago not to do it because its specialist, hard work and doesn't pay well, and I just though what a d**k head and now I'm doing what I :heart:. life's to short just to get up every day and do a job you hate.

p.s - ever thought about pest control ?

Steve

And they all lived happily ever after:rolleyes:

[Kennelre]

[QUOTE=Island lad;1007505] have been volunteering in falconry for just over two years and as of march will be payed to do the job I love. QUOTE]

I'm just thinking that it might be important to note that Harris 91's profile says he is a student which I assume means he's still at school. The advice he receives at this point is quite important in terms of both job satisfaction and a secure financial future. I wouldn't personally be encouraging him on a path where he worked for two years without getting paid at all....especially when it's also contrary to his parent's advice.


...Rene.

[CJTaylor]

What utter **** ! My missus manages a pub, I'm a cleaner at a local leisure center early in the morning and have been volunteering in falconry for just over two years and as of march will be payed to do the job I love. So firstly it all depends on the persons circumstances at the time, secondly Ive learned more in just a couple of years working with anything from American kestrels all the way up to golden eagles than I ever would hunting a Harris season after season. I consider it a proper job and these people (not suggesting your one of them) who catch the odd rabbit with a Harris but would brick it at the thought of flying, talking, reading weather conditions and keeping an eye on large crowds of people don't regard us as proper falconers. Nothing annoys me more. :evil: and believe it or not us display falconers actually hunt our birds as well !!

Well , i personaly think you will read this post and cringe ! in a few years.....you may have handled , you may fly a few birds , you may even be able to talk to the public , however the above post as a reply to Davids genuine suggestion shows just how little experience you have actually got.........he aint suggesting flying a harris catching a few bunnys , has talking about realy learning about falconry , hunting differing game , the plus and the minus of it all , how to handle much much more than you yourself are ,infact what hes talking about is something beyond your perception ,this will be learned over a few years of flying and hunting. as against as yourself whos probably , flying pre trained pre handled birds , being heavily guided by some one , your the typical 2 minute wonder , in in all honesty i doubt your very knowlegable...but hey , that dont matter as long as you can quote ! parrot fashion...................

Harris 91.......making money in falconry is not easy son , but in life theres only one person that can make you happy , and thats you...so theres nothing wrong in chasing your dream and trying , just ensure youve something to fall back on ( qualifications)....2 years in this game isnt a long time , after more than 25 years of actively hunting gosses and falcons i learn a new trick every day ,ive done displays etc for favours , but its not for me , my opinon is , if you can find someone near who hunts regular ( pref falcons or gosses ) and has done for many years you will learn more about falconry in a few months,than if you spend 2 years picking up pre trained birds and flying for the public, at a centre...atb col

[Daave77]

What utter **** ! My missus manages a pub, I'm a cleaner at a local leisure center early in the morning and have been volunteering in falconry for just over two years and as of march will be payed to do the job I love. So firstly it all depends on the persons circumstances at the time, secondly Ive learned more in just a couple of years working with anything from American kestrels all the way up to golden eagles than I ever would hunting a Harris season after season. I consider it a proper job and these people (not suggesting your one of them) who catch the odd rabbit with a Harris but would brick it at the thought of flying, talking, reading weather conditions and keeping an eye on large crowds of people don't regard us as proper falconers. Nothing annoys me more. :evil: and believe it or not us display falconers actually hunt our birds as well !!

See to me that is utter ****!
I think what David is getting at is you should have a grounding in proper Falconry first, but I like the way you assume thats a couple of seasons with a Harris! How sad it is that should be the definition of proper Falconry!! Then you quote some lad in another post who gets a Harris!!!
A grounding in proper Falconry IN MY EYES would be hunting VARIOUS different raptors over a good few seasons, getting out with experienced folk who HUNT with their raptors.
I feel I can comment on this as when I was 17 (14 years ago), I did exactly what the originator in this post wanted to, I got a job as a Falconer for the (then) National School of Falconry. Daily I would either be involved in one of their pest control contracts or taking people on Hawk Walks or involved in hunting days (as well as all the crappy jobs possible) - I loved it but there was NO money in it and I wasn't paid - thats not a job!
All to often people are told to get to their local centre to volunteer and whilst that may teach you how to handle birds of prey it doesn't teach you Falconry in its true meaning.
"Display Falconer" indeed! there is a contradiction in terms if ever I heard it! thats like saying "Car Polisher Driver", IE you get to polish lots of cars but the only one you drive is the garages Vauxhall Astra, or in the case of a most centres you only hunt with Harrises! Yes good displays wow members of the public who know nothing of birds of prey, but don't suddenly think you're gods gift to all things Raptor! I've done it and it wasn't hard!

My advice to the originator like others (including your folks) is get a job that allows you time and money to get the raptor of your choice and hunt with it - centres are all well and good but all to often when I have been there is some teenager (yep that was me once but at least i'd done it on my own first) telling me how the birds hunt having never seen a Long or Shortwing do so, like David I would like to see a credible FALCONER at the helm, not the local kids.

Now the "DISPLAY FALCONERS":rolleyes: can jump on my back....:roll:

[Little Joe]

It all depends on how serious you are about falconry as a career. Thats it!

If nothing else will do, then go for it with all your heart. Its true that not many people make truckloads of cash out of it, and when you get to the position where money gets better, it becomes a nasty business just like everything else with politics and back biting galore.

For a youngster like yourself, the best route would be to start working at a centre to broaden your knowledge on the various raptor groups and thier behaviour in a hands-on environment. At the same time you can start hunting, giving intensive attention to one bird at a time. A harris for a season, a gos for a season, a longwing, etc. In the meantime you meet people in the business and maybe get involved in the breeding side. After a few years of earning peanuts and learning all you can, you might be in the position to start your own business or at least join an existing concern for better money.

Dont let any of the doom prophets put you off. If its your passion and dream, go for it!!!

[Icarus Fell]

Another option is to become a volunteer on one of the high-profile raptor conservation projects around the world. Some of them have ornithological laboratories where the incubation and brooding is done and where you would learn avicultural skills; some projects are involved in other stages, such as hacking, and require hack site attendants to watch over youngsters and ensure that mongooses or wild raptors don't get them. Other projects are rehabilitation centres - there you would learn how best to set up your facility with weatherings, moult pens, breeding chambers and seclusion pens; I think the University of Minnesota's is where Pat Redig works and is a very eminent place where you may learn the application of falconry techniques in one of their widest possible contexts. You may find, for example, that, if you work as a volunteer on the San Diego Zoo California Condor Project you are learning applied avicultural skills/raptor conservation in a laboratory environment - you may discover that you have a passion for laboratory work or ornithology. That, in turn, could lead to your doing a degree at Oxford and joining Wildcru!
I've found that fieldwork is not sexy nor glamorous. Do it because you're a passionate field man or don't do it. Do it because you might get a paper out of it and therefore some professional kudos. But be prepared to be bitten, stung, sweaty, dirty, itchy, talked down to and other antisocial things.
I started out several years ago on the Mauritius kestrel project when that was at its highest profile (international team of raptor biologists; living in a tented camp in Maccabé forest, working as a voluntary hack site attendant and sometimes in the laboratory; killing things). Some of those personnel need no introduction and have remained where they are because they founded their respective organisations (eg Tom Cade); others have been lucky enough to remain as raptor biologists in the UK. Many were/are falconers.
After Mauritius I went on other projects and then did my degrees and then worked in admin before telling myself enough was enough and high-tailing it out to Brazil where I founded the Pantanal Institute. I now enjoy some involvement with Neotropical raptors, but raptor biology is not my bread-and-butter - yet. Instead, I teach and translate the work of other raptor biologists. We are developing other courses but it'll be a while before I'm a practicing raptor biologist or professional falconer or whatever. I just dig being around things with hooked beaks. On the plus side, I do love what I do now, even if it's not all creances and washed meat, all the time.
What I would definitely say, though, is travel and hook up with a genuine conservation project for a season, preferably in the tropics.

Hope this helps.


This just might be the best post on this thread!!
Certainly made me think.

[Daave77]

Dont let any of the doom prophets put you off. If its your passion and dream, go for it!!!

It's not about being a doom prophet , it's about being realistic about Falconry being a serious career proposition in the over-centred UK!
I read with sheer admiration John Beaumonts post, but such skilled dedication to raptor biology and conservation is undertaken by a select and dedicated few, the impression I get from the originator makes me think they're after a far more general Falconry career flying birds of prey as opposed to studying them.
Joe I think you need to pop over to the UK and see some of these centres, they mostly attempt to be mini versions of The National Bird of Prey Centre, with a small selection of raptors, they'll be a Kestrel and/or Barn Owl for the kids to hold, a Harris or Buzzard (usually the former) for Hawk Walks for the adults and some of the more experienced kids will fly a Lanner to the lure for the wow factor, some places opt for a Eeo or similar to fly through the crowd and many will offer 'hunting days' flying a couple of Harrises at bunnys on the local farms (courses with these are offered too). You can
forget hunting long or short wings (too difficult) or any decent conservation projects, as for fieldcraft, forget it but you may be lucky enough to name owl chicks from the latest Barn Owl clutch!

Whilst centres of this nature help to show school kids what things with a hooked beak look like they do very little else, there are far too many of them with the blind leading the blind - trying to forge a career in it over here is a non starter unless you get local sponsorship and even then it's hardly a career for life as the money soon runs out! there is more money to be made clearing landfill sights but even then unless you hold the contracts yourself you'll be on a pitance!

In the originators position I would go with his parents (let's face it as a kid these days you need them) and find a career that allows him to earn enough money to live in a poor financial climate, I wanted to be a Rally Driver or Stuntman when I was a kid (think the latter was due to Lee Majors ;-) ) but I wouldn't thanked my parents for allowing me to p1ss my life away on a dream, there is nothing wrong with being realistic!!

Pete

[FlameHairedFalconer]

In life the answer you want is not often the answer you get.

The earlier you learn this lesson the better your life will be.

[CJTaylor]

In life the answer you want is not often the answer you get.

The earlier you learn this lesson the better your life will be.

Possibly one of the best bits of advice ive read on this forum...Col

[Daave77]

Possibly one of the best bits of advice ive read on this forum...Col

Agreed, but these days we have the 'Pop Idol' generation - 'I want it so I'll have it, if I don't get it I'll throw a tantrum/cry till I do, I don't intend work hard to get it either, the world owes me it!'

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Agreed, but these days we have the 'Pop Idol' generation - 'I want it so I'll have it, if I don't get it I'll throw a tantrum/cry till I do, I don't intend work hard to get it either, the world owes me it!'

Tell me about it, I hear it every day! However this is absolutely not aimed at the thread starter, who is clearly thinking carefully about his future.

[Island Lad]

Agreed, but these days we have the 'Pop Idol' generation - 'I want it so I'll have it, if I don't get it I'll throw a tantrum/cry till I do, I don't intend work hard to get it either, the world owes me it!'


I'm in full agreement with you. And in response to other post's on this thread, I'm sure my knowledge isn't that vast nor do I think I'm gods gift after working with birds for just a few years. Maybe I went a bit O.T.T over the display falconer thing. I just remember the lack of encouragement my then boss gave me when I was a teenager, and because of my passion for raptors I can remember feeling upset at his response when I approached him. (by the way, I worked at an animal park at the time not a falconry center and knew he kept birds at his home). I just don't like peoples don't do it attitude that's all.

[Island Lad]

See to me that is utter ****!
I think what David is getting at is you should have a grounding in proper Falconry first, but I like the way you assume thats a couple of seasons with a Harris! How sad it is that should be the definition of proper Falconry!! Then you quote some lad in another post who gets a Harris!!!
A grounding in proper Falconry IN MY EYES would be hunting VARIOUS different raptors over a good few seasons, getting out with experienced folk who HUNT with their raptors.
I feel I can comment on this as when I was 17 (14 years ago), I did exactly what the originator in this post wanted to, I got a job as a Falconer for the (then) National School of Falconry. Daily I would either be involved in one of their pest control contracts or taking people on Hawk Walks or involved in hunting days (as well as all the crappy jobs possible) - I loved it but there was NO money in it and I wasn't paid - thats not a job!
All to often people are told to get to their local centre to volunteer and whilst that may teach you how to handle birds of prey it doesn't teach you Falconry in its true meaning.
"Display Falconer" indeed! there is a contradiction in terms if ever I heard it! thats like saying "Car Polisher Driver", IE you get to polish lots of cars but the only one you drive is the garages Vauxhall Astra, or in the case of a most centres you only hunt with Harrises! Yes good displays wow members of the public who know nothing of birds of prey, but don't suddenly think you're gods gift to all things Raptor! I've done it and it wasn't hard!

My advice to the originator like others (including your folks) is get a job that allows you time and money to get the raptor of your choice and hunt with it - centres are all well and good but all to often when I have been there is some teenager (yep that was me once but at least i'd done it on my own first) telling me how the birds hunt having never seen a Long or Shortwing do so, like David I would like to see a credible FALCONER at the helm, not the local kids.

Now the "DISPLAY FALCONERS":rolleyes: can jump on my back....:roll:

Firstly when did I say that flying a Harris for a couple of seasons was the true meaning of falconry. Secondly, why just because I've learned a lot in a short space of time do I think I'm gods gift to falconry. I would be the first to admit that I'm just a novice and will not think otherwise for a good many years to come. I may have been a bit over the top in my first post and apologize for that but there are no issue's where my ego is concerned. That's the problem with forums/text - all too often it gets miss understood. I also like to add that I hunt privately as well ( Eagles, Hawks Falcons and buzzards) for roughly six months of the year.

[Little Joe]

It's not about being a doom prophet , it's about being realistic about Falconry being a serious career proposition in the over-centred UK!
I read with sheer admiration John Beaumonts post, but such skilled dedication to raptor biology and conservation is undertaken by a select and dedicated few, the impression I get from the originator makes me think they're after a far more general Falconry career flying birds of prey as opposed to studying them.
Joe I think you need to pop over to the UK and see some of these centres, they mostly attempt to be mini versions of The National Bird of Prey Centre, with a small selection of raptors, they'll be a Kestrel and/or Barn Owl for the kids to hold, a Harris or Buzzard (usually the former) for Hawk Walks for the adults and some of the more experienced kids will fly a Lanner to the lure for the wow factor, some places opt for a Eeo or similar to fly through the crowd and many will offer 'hunting days' flying a couple of Harrises at bunnys on the local farms (courses with these are offered too). You can
forget hunting long or short wings (too difficult) or any decent conservation projects, as for fieldcraft, forget it but you may be lucky enough to name owl chicks from the latest Barn Owl clutch!

Whilst centres of this nature help to show school kids what things with a hooked beak look like they do very little else, there are far too many of them with the blind leading the blind - trying to forge a career in it over here is a non starter unless you get local sponsorship and even then it's hardly a career for life as the money soon runs out! there is more money to be made clearing landfill sights but even then unless you hold the contracts yourself you'll be on a pitance!

In the originators position I would go with his parents (let's face it as a kid these days you need them) and find a career that allows him to earn enough money to live in a poor financial climate, I wanted to be a Rally Driver or Stuntman when I was a kid (think the latter was due to Lee Majors ) but I wouldn't thanked my parents for allowing me to p1ss my life away on a dream, there is nothing wrong with being realistic!!

Pete

I hear you Pete. I havent been to England...yet ;)

A stuntman, hey? :lol:

Maybe in this financial climate one should be a banker - their bonuses seem to be intact....:roll:

But I wonder what advice Richard Branson wouldve given the lad?

[Daave77]

Firstly when did I say that flying a Harris for a couple of seasons was the true meaning of falconry.

You answered David Ramplings post You need a proper grounding in REAL falconry first.

With:

Ive learned more in just a couple of years working with anything from American kestrels all the way up to golden eagles than I ever would hunting a Harris season after season.

So faced with a question on "proper falconry" you've come up with hunting a Harris - not a massive leap for me to assume really was it??


Secondly, why just because I've learned a lot in a short space of time do I think I'm gods gift to falconry.

For a start off the very fact you've think you've learnt more from displaying birds than hunting them.

I would be the first to admit that I'm just a novice and will not think otherwise for a good many years to come. I may have been a bit over the top in my first post and apologize for that but there are no issue's where my ego is concerned. That's the problem with forums/text - all too often it gets miss understood.

There is a place for display centres and there is no reason the Isle of Wight shouldn't have its own, but don't confuse centres with Falconry, its displaying birds of prey. When YOU have hunted a variety of birds i'd be interested in hearing a demonstration from you, in the meantime you're quoting others and that doesn't a Falconer make.

[Island Lad]

Yawn

[Daave77]

Yawn

Wow, good reply! Certainly put me firmly in my place.....:rolleyes:

[Jan1]

Ask a dozen opinions & you'll get a dozen different answers! At the end of the day you have to make your own decision & stand by it. All life's big decisions carry an element of risk, but if you shy away from them just because of that, then you'll live a dull life & end up regretting you'd not been braver. And if it all goes wrong for you its not the end of the world, for when one door closes another door opens. There's plenty of graduates out there, not to mention ex-merchant bankers, working on tables. So if you have a dream then do your research, plan out how you're going to achieve it & sooner or later you'll get there - it's not a race. You could start with getting more involved with falconry because, as yet, you've little experience of it. You're young with your whole life ahead of you - I envy you.

[David Rampling]

What utter **** ! My missus manages a pub, I'm a cleaner at a local leisure center early in the morning and have been volunteering in falconry for just over two years and as of march will be payed to do the job I love. So firstly it all depends on the persons circumstances at the time, secondly Ive learned more in just a couple of years working with anything from American kestrels all the way up to golden eagles than I ever would hunting a Harris season after season. I consider it a proper job and these people (not suggesting your one of them) who catch the odd rabbit with a Harris but would brick it at the thought of flying, talking, reading weather conditions and keeping an eye on large crowds of people don't regard us as proper falconers. Nothing annoys me more. :evil: and believe it or not us display falconers actually hunt our birds as well !!

Its sounds like you are exactly what I was talking about. 2 years part time and now you are giving displays. I can only asume your shows are awfull, two years isnt enough to clean out a weathering properly.

[Daave77]

Its sounds like you are exactly what I was talking about. 2 years part time and now you are giving displays. I can only asume your shows are awfull, two years isnt enough to clean out a weathering properly.

Steady David, you're lining yourself up to be shot down with a well thought out and cutting reply such as the one I received!:wink:

[Daave77]

Ask a dozen opinions & you'll get a dozen different answers! At the end of the day you have to make your own decision & stand by it. All life's big decisions carry an element of risk, but if you shy away from them just because of that, then you'll live a dull life & end up regretting you'd not been braver. And if it all goes wrong for you its not the end of the world, for when one door closes another door opens. There's plenty of graduates out there, not to mention ex-merchant bankers, working on tables. So if you have a dream then do your research, plan out how you're going to achieve it & sooner or later you'll get there - it's not a race. You could start with getting more involved with falconry because, as yet, you've little experience of it. You're young with your whole life ahead of you - I envy you.

Excellent reply! :supz:

[David Rampling]

If you read this one Island lad, I DO give displays for a living, run a centre and practice REAL falconry in the winter. And I am still learning something new about my birds every day.

[Hawking]

........ I just don't like peoples don't do it attitude that's all.

I don't think you see the point here!......yes most often in a passion such as falconry you get very diffrent opinions. Most strongly held..........now if you stop and think about it instead of having a attitude(yawn:confused:) over being told what others beleave, you will relize that the lad is getting very consistant advice from well rounded and experianced people. Don't you think that maybe getting close to the same advise from so many different sources, is a huge red flag? That he should stop and consider what they say instead of rejecting it? These people have been there, done that. So unless he has some information he feels they do not or a diffrent buisness model than others who have tried, maybe he should really slow down and think long and hard about what advise he is getting for the question he asked. The fact that he is looking for a falconry career and not sure where to start suggests that maybe he doesn't know all he thinks he does......There are ways to make money and just as many to spend it. Yes he could do it.....but he better consider well the choices he makes.

[Jan1]

Excellent reply! :supz:

Thanks - my apologies for the appalling cliches :oops::lol:

[Greg]

If you read this one Island lad, I DO give displays for a living, run a centre and practice REAL falconry in the winter. And I am still learning something new about my birds every day.

I should dam well think so David! Time to give up when we don't!

[Harris91]

Hi all

Thanks to all the comments on this thread. As I dnt think I made it quite clear in my original thread Im not planning on going into a Falconry career straight away!!...i think im smart enough to nt atempt tht.haha its jus something tht I would like to learn more about as a career choice and the surrounding posibilities so perhaps i can consider it l8r when Im an expirenced falconer. I plann to spend at least a year with a falconer before I even consider getting my 1ST BIRD obv at the age I am, im trying to figure out what I want to du so tht I can plan for the future accordingly. I like the idea of perhaps vollenteering at a falconry centre mabye jus cleaning out the odd whethering to begin with and gaining expirence in handling their birds and slowly participating more in their management. ?? how does tht sound?????



Thanks agen for every1's advice:supz:

rich

[CeeGee]

Not having the falconry experience of the previous guys I feel in some way non qualified to comment here, however I will.
There are thousands of career paths you could follow, some of them may prove easier in terms of financial reward than others. Having said that i'm sure if the correct passion, drive and imagination are employed, there are non that would not allow you to be succesfull in both monatry and personal terms.
Why falconry should be different I dont know.
good luck in what ever you decide

[Icarus Fell]

Rich/ Harris91

I think from your last post that you seem to seem to have all (or most) or your dots joined up. There are a huge range of jobs that will allow you to work with or for raptors. There is also a huge range of jobs that will pay you a decent wage and allow you the time to fly you birds.

Maybe you need to decide if you want to work for birds or if you want them to work for you.

I'm a display falconer.I'.ve been doing it for 3 full years. I haven't hunted a bird properly for 2 years.
Next year I should have sorted my **** out and will be back in the swing of things but don't think that being in the business means that you are the business.

Ross

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Good luck, its hard and dont make you rich, but its extrodinary rewording to work with animals, and its more a way of life then a job....

BTW am I the only prson here who really really struggles to read all this weird so called enlish..... m8, any1, dnt, jus, tht, obv, du, agen etc etc etc.......:confused:, my spelling is appaling, but at least I try, all that stuff is just lazyness or am I just getting old.....:oops:

[Haek]

AS THE FALCON HER BELLS Methinks you are developing the curse of the ageing process (not like that in my day), but dont worry people generaly make allowances and smile at you in a condecending way.
Harris91 As to the self proclaimed "experts" who pass advice and advertise proudly their knowledge, a much wiser person than I will ever be explained and defined an "expert" for me. by looking at the build up of the word we find, ex a has been, spert/spurt a drip under pressure.
I have been flying hawks for over 30 yrs and know for an absolute certainty that I have more to learn than I know. I have flown most of the readily available ones in the UK and had the privilege to fly others in Southern Africa that most can only dream of. None of this could have been done without the education I had as well as having to earn the best living I could. All this amounts to the age old advice offered by parents down the ages "get the best education you can", earniing a good salary does not guarantee a happy and fulfilled life, but it sure as hell lets you pick your own way to be miserable.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

AS THE FALCON HER BELLS Methinks you are developing the curse of the ageing process (not like that in my day), but dont worry people generaly make allowances and smile at you in a condecending way.
Harris91 As to the self proclaimed "experts" who pass advice and advertise proudly their knowledge, a much wiser person than I will ever be explained and defined an "expert" for me. by looking at the build up of the word we find, ex a has been, spert/spurt a drip under pressure.
I have been flying hawks for over 30 yrs and know for an absolute certainty that I have more to learn than I know. I have flown most of the readily available ones in the UK and had the privilege to fly others in Southern Africa that most can only dream of. None of this could have been done without the education I had as well as having to earn the best living I could. All this amounts to the age old advice offered by parents down the ages "get the best education you can", earniing a good salary does not guarantee a happy and fulfilled life, but it sure as hell lets you pick your own way to be miserable.


:( I feel old, but felt better when I realized that you have flown birds as long as I have lived all together :lol:

[Brad79]

Harris91

My advise is find a rich women and marry her....lol

When my son was choosing his gcse's he wanted to choose whats best for a job in what he loves (PE) and my advise was simple, you can either go for a job in something you love with low pay and enjoy work but struggle for money which when you have the cost of living these days could make your home life un happy, or you could go towards a job that you dont like so much but earn well have a nice house, car, hollidays and still do what you love as a hobby and have a happy home life.

People say that money dont make you happy, ha they must be rich or bought a house when they cost 3 grand, trust me earning low money and struggling to pay bills can put huge pressure on you and your familly (when you have one) and make life awfull at home, i'v been there.

The good thing with falconry is you dont have to do it as a career to learn about it, read books, watch dvd's, join a club, get a mentor, go to displays, if you can...get your own bird and train it youfself and of course surf the net and visit here as much as you can.
Once you know enough to change career into falconry your probably look at your nice house, car and the hawk and falcon weathered on the lawn and think **** that i'm fine where i am.

Please dont think i'll work at a centre for now and persue a career later, studdy hard now and work towards a good job and enjoy your falconry.

Best of luck what ever you decide.

[RubyTuesday]

As has already been said, You will never, or very rarely anyway, get rich practising falconry as a career. Iv been doing it about 2 years now, With my partner, who has been doing alot longer. Although I've never been happier, I've also never been poorer, and we really struggle outside of the tourist season, to survive.

It's highly demanding, and you have to be there every hour of daylight there is. Your life changes, there is no longer a christmas day, or a new years night where you can relax into the idea that you dont have to get up at first light.

The rewards do, in the end outweigh the negatives and the demands, but i think you have to have a certain type of personality to be able to enjoy it. You have to be carefull that turning it into a job, doesnt take away from the passion that you have. I know that when I turned music into my job, it took away from the joy and passion i had for playing. I think that maybe our passions should stay as that little escape window from reality, where you can get away from the real world for a while.

Just my thoughts.

Rox

[Island Lad]

I don't think you see the point here!......yes most often in a passion such as falconry you get very diffrent opinions. Most strongly held..........now if you stop and think about it instead of having a attitude(yawn:confused:) over being told what you did not want to hear, you will relize that you are getting very consistant advice from well rounded and experianced people. Don't you think that maybe getting close to the same advise from so many different sources, is a huge red flag? That you should stop and consider what they say instead of rejecting it? These people have been there, done that. So unless you have some information you feel they do not or a diffrent buisness model than others who have tried, I would really slow down and think long and hard about what advise you got for the question you asked. The fact the you are looking for a falconry career and not sure where to start suggests that maybe you don't know all you think you know......There are ways to make money and just as many to spend it. Yes you could do it.....but you better consider well the choices you make.


Looking for falconry career and not sure where to start ? Ive already started. It was the other guy who started this thread not me. :roll:

[Island Lad]

Its sounds like you are exactly what I was talking about. 2 years part time and now you are giving displays. I can only asume your shows are awfull, two years isnt enough to clean out a weathering properly.


Firstly don't assume, Secondly don't slate the displays that I'm involved in. Not once have I assumed the quality of work that you do or am I suggesting that I'm as good or any better than you. 2 miles up the road from where I live a guy runs a falconry center on a certain national heritage site. And he thinks hes the best falconer in the country and even his ex thinks he should be shot for the way he treats his birds. And he's been doing it a lot longer than I have. So just because Ive only been involved in falconry for three years doesn't mean that I'm awful at it. I think you've been bang out of order. Maybe I should have been a bit more polite in my first post on this thread but I dont diserve this. Thanks.

[Island Lad]

I think I will use this forum purely for reference purposes from now on and not get involved in discussions. It aint worth the grief.

[AndyP]

Agreed, but these days we have the 'Pop Idol' generation - 'I want it so I'll have it, if I don't get it I'll throw a tantrum/cry till I do, I don't intend work hard to get it either, the world owes me it!'

Hear Hear and this is why we are in a recession I want it I'm getting it!! Oh **** now I can't pay for it!!!

[David Rampling]

Firstly don't assume, Secondly don't slate the displays that I'm involved in. Not once have I assumed the quality of work that you do or am I suggesting that I'm as good or any better than you. 2 miles up the road from where I live a guy runs a falconry center on a certain national heritage site. And he thinks hes the best falconer in the country and even his ex thinks he should be shot for the way he treats his birds. And he's been doing it a lot longer than I have. So just because Ive only been involved in falconry for three years doesn't mean that I'm awful at it. I think you've been bang out of order. Maybe I should have been a bit more polite in my first post on this thread but I dont diserve this. Thanks.

You should have been more polite,.....!, and maybe so should I, my temper got the better of me, and I am big enough to say so, lets burry the hatchet and start with a clean slate. No need to dissapear, thats not what I intended. Dave

[Hawking]

Looking for falconry career and not sure where to start ? Ive already started. It was the other guy who started this thread not me. :roll:


:oops: My apoligies........nothing personal but non the less I stand by my opinion.

[Island Lad]

That's the problem with forums, text can be miss interpreted.

[Wise_As_The_Wind]

i am well qualified to do many things. I turned down a very respectable job to be a bird controller.

I f*$ing love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i still get offers for well paid employment but im quite happy earning half that money, afterall its not like i do any work...(i even go to "work" when i dont have too!!):oops:

[Kylie]

Too many go into a career as a display falconer without the many years of training it needs. You need a proper grounding in REAL falconry first. You need to be able to answer every question propperly, your standards need to be of the highest order. I am afraid the standard of displays in this country is appaling in many cases. Dont add to it. Get a proper job first and learn and enjoy your hawking, when you really know what you are doing, consider it again.i would agree with everything you say here apart from 1 thing you say in many cases the standards appauling i would say in the last three yrs i have seen only 2 good displays the rest were rubbish

[Island Lad]

i would agree with everything you say here apart from 1 thing you say in many cases the standards appauling i would say in the last three yrs i have seen only 2 good displays the rest were rubbish


How would you determine a good Falconry display ?

[HallBeck]

How would you determine a good Falconry display ?

Well mannered birds in good condition flying to a high standard. Falcons not sitting in trees and Harris Hawks not sitting on peoples heads. Telemetry used and all equipment in clean and serviceable order. The handler well turned out, properly trained and prepared and using a quality PA system. A professionally delivered informed commentary that appeals to the audience.

Proper insurance should be carried and a zoo license held if required. Any vehicle used for away demos should be clean and properly adapted. Any static display should conform to the Hawk Boards minimum standard.

[David Rampling]

How would you determine a good Falconry display ?

Hope you dont mind me answering that one. In my opinion a good display is when the birds are fit, and in great condition, perfectly obedient and very well trained. The display giver is giving sensible,accurate information in an entertaining way. Lure work must be top rate. That would be a start.

[Casper]

i would agree with everything you say here apart from 1 thing you say in many cases the standards appauling i would say in the last three yrs i have seen only 2 good displays the rest were rubbish

Again to your response to David R.. Display falconry was needed in the late 70's and earl 80's due to the general dislike to b.o.p and d.d.t etc , etc.. Personally i hate displays, static or flying but when done right like Blewitt , you think o.k..maybe . Far too many people are @ it everywhere, expertiodes like butiodes, Ban the Harris????? Breeding???? and yes nearly all displays are misled and inaccurate, polite way of saying etc, etc .....

[Island Lad]

Hope you dont mind me answering that one. In my opinion a good display is when the birds are fit, and in great condition, perfectly obedient and very well trained. The display giver is giving sensible,accurate information in an entertaining way. Lure work must be top rate. That would be a start.


Well all those boxes are ticked I'm glad to say. I also think it's good to put fresh idea's into practice (as long as the birds/public's safety is kept as priority. We use a 500yard coursing track to show the Harris hawks hunting ability which always gets the crowd on there feet.

[Icarus Fell]

Well all those boxes are ticked I'm glad to say. I also think it's good to put fresh idea's into practice (as long as the birds/public's safety is kept as priority. We use a 500yard coursing track to show the Harris hawks hunting ability which always gets the crowd on there feet.

Takes a brave man to say that his OWN lure work is top rate.
I was ticking boxes too. I'll leave the lure one to others to decide.

[Daave77]

Takes a brave man to say that his OWN lure work is top rate.
I was ticking boxes too. I'll leave the lure one to others to decide.

Good point - I put my skills in that department firmly in very average!

[Moritz]

I started with falconry straight after school, but with the possibility of going to uni at a later stage. after 2 years i went back to uni. Best thing i ever did in my life was the 2 years as a falconer. now uni is a compleatly different ball game than it would have been if i had gone into it straight after school. so may be a gap year or 2 might be an option to find out if you like it, than get a qualification and go back to falconry after uni, if you still want to. like i said best thing i ever did.

Mo

[Kennelre]

I started with falconry straight after school, but with the possibility of going to uni at a later stage. after 2 years i went back to uni. Best thing i ever did in my life was the 2 years as a falconer. now uni is a compleatly different ball game than it would have been if i had gone into it straight after school. so may be a gap year or 2 might be an option to find out if you like it, than get a qualification and go back to falconry after uni, if you still want to. like i said best thing i ever did.

Mo

Not everyone goes to University and the whole concept of gap years is to develop some life experiences which might allow you to develop as a person before taking on a further course of study.
Perhaps Harris91's talents don't lie in the degree/Uni. direction...no one has actually asked him.:yawinkle:


...Rene.

[Moritz]

Not everyone goes to University and the whole concept of gap years is to develop some life experiences which might allow you to develop as a person before taking on a further course of study.
Perhaps Harris91's talents don't lie in the degree/Uni. direction...no one has actually asked him.:yawinkle:


...Rene.

well uni can be replaced with apprenticeship or any other form of training for a job. what i am saying is, he is young and 1 or 2 years testing falconry as a job won't prevent him from still getting another job. that way he does not get a career and 10 years down the line decides to give up his job and try falconry and than realises it is not for him. so lost a potentialy good employment. from my 2 years i learned that i want to be in falconry, but not in the way i thought. and now i am finding new ways of making money with falconry using the knowledge i gaind befor hand.

Mo

[Island Lad]

Takes a brave man to say that his OWN lure work is top rate.
I was ticking boxes too. I'll leave the lure one to others to decide.


Maybe The lure bit slipped my mind. :D I'm awfull

[David Rampling]

Maybe The lure bit slipped my mind. :D I'm awfull

:DEasily done, but you are forgiven!

[Kylie]

How would you determine a good Falconry display ?after watching them for well over 20yrs i know the difference between good and bad one of the best in her time was jpj

[BFG1]

Hi Harris91,

Alot of mixed replies on here, and all of it useful information on taking a career in falconry.
If you want a career in falconry then please contact me by private message.

Many thanks

[Pandamonium]

Hello,
L8ly I have been seriously considering a career in Falconry but am unsure!Both my parents say tht there is no money in it and dnt regaurd it as a career so they dnt wnt me to persue it. I want to wrk in Wildlife and the Environment and had in mind a job on a nature reserve type thing perhaps as a warden or conservation officer??but arfter looking into it i have learnt that its a difficult area to get into as there are more applicants than there are postions avaliable plus every1 seems to need degrees nowdays!!...So anyways now im looking into a career in FALCONRY!

Has any1 any advice.....anything atal eg..routes into a job....types of wrk ??...ANYTHING!!!!!!!


I no Iv waffled on a bit soooooo rl shut uppp:oops::oops: haha


Thanks:supz:

I would have to agree with others that you need to get a 'real job' like your pairents say, it may not be what you want today, but tomorrow it will help you, you can volenteer at a centre, get to know what its really like and your day job can pay for your hobby a while - maybe do a course at an agricultural collage? animal management then facilities management and when you are my age maybe you could own your own centre if that is your desire.

The other option is to keep doing the lottery?

[Falcon77]

My career advice in falconry is to find a shift work job or a self-employed trade that allows you plenty of daylight hours free to train/hunt your hawk (especially in the short days of the winter hunting season).

[Eagleseeker]

Harris91, I hope you havn't given up on this thread yet.

My thoughts for what they're worth are this. I broadly agree with most of the sensible posts. John Beaumonts (sp?) was superb. You seem to be thinking right.

My advice would be to qualify as a vet with a degree in zoology. The raptor/falconry world is always in need of specialist vets. With those qualifications you could just about walk into any job anywhere in the world in a conservation/breeding/falconry project. As an urban (dog & cat) vet you would earn a very good living and have time to do your own birds justice and money won't be short either.

One last thought, from early childhood I wanted to be a vet. In my latter teen years my parents let me walk away from that dream. A decision I have regretted almost daily ever since. NEVER give up on your dream and don't let anyone steal it either!

[Daave77]

My advice would be to qualify as a vet with a degree in zoology.

:shock:

Good career but far from easy that one - Best of luck Harris91, if you haven't already start studying, you need to achieve some VERY good grades to become a Vet - what results have you been predicted?? May give a good indication if the suggested path is achievable.

I wanted to be a a Tornado pilot in the RAF at one stage, then I saw what had to be achieved and settled for something else instead :D

[Kennelre]

:shock:

Good career but far from easy that one - Best of luck Harris91, if you haven't already start studying, you need to achieve some VERY good grades to become a Vet - what results have you been predicted?? May give a good indication if the suggested path is achievable.

I wanted to be a a Tornado pilot in the RAF at one stage, then I saw what had to be achieved and settled for something else instead :D

Hah!!! I was making that point in post 66...but I'm used to being ignored!!:lol:

I wanted to be a ballerina...got way too tall!!!:roll:


...Rene.

[MusketMad]

What utter **** ! My missus manages a pub, I'm a cleaner at a local leisure center early in the morning and have been volunteering in falconry for just over two years and as of march will be payed to do the job I love. So firstly it all depends on the persons circumstances at the time, secondly Ive learned more in just a couple of years working with anything from American kestrels all the way up to golden eagles than I ever would hunting a Harris season after season. I consider it a proper job and these people (not suggesting your one of them) who catch the odd rabbit with a Harris but would brick it at the thought of flying, talking, reading weather conditions and keeping an eye on large crowds of people don't regard us as proper falconers. Nothing annoys me more. :evil: and believe it or not us display falconers actually hunt our birds as well !!Working at a centre does not qualify people as falconers ..Falconry is completely different to bird of prey demostrating ,The pay is also not as good as some people would like to think ...I dont want to come on here and rubbish your post thats not my intention but have you hunted a golden eagle or an american kestrel come to that ?..
I know what you are saying about flying and talking in front of large crowds though as i done it everyday at one of the biggest centres about and you need certain qualities to be able to do it properly ,While i was doing this i found my proper falconry suffered quite badly ...The amount of competition from people trying to get jobs in this industry is fierce and hands on experience is what centres look for ...If i was going to give any young person looking for work i would tell them to volunteer at a centre for at least two years and get a foot in the door ....Ive lectured at many colleges for animal manegement courses etc and to be honest most of the youngsters were more intrested in texting while i was talking etc and i found that most are there just because they think its gonna be an easy ride ....its not easy and only the hard working and dedicated ones will end up working in the animal industry..

[Harris91]

Hi
Thank u to everyones post and im sory I havent replied in a while! as the posts slowed down i forgot about it.:oops:!and have only just relised the recent input... unfortunitly im not taking the right a levels to become a vet u need to have done two or all three of the sciences to be considered to do a degree, But i have considered it before. To be honest I dont think im gunna go to uni but am thinking of an open uni degree after college maybe???thtat way i can have a job and gain experience and a little bit of money whilst doing a qualification.:supz:

One thing is for sure is im not gunna fully decide wht my career will be untill I leave college!

Thanks every1 :D wil not forget about this thread again soo input is still very welcome!!!

Rich

[Norm]

Hi, Harris 91 I used to live in North Walsham, I have a friend who lives not far from you, why don't you go down to the seal and rescue centre at Walcot and have a word with Bev and tell her Norm sent you. She has just got a peregrine and has other things that might interest you, she may be of some help.

Norm

[Harris91]

Iv sent u a pm norm

rich

[Norm]

you have pm back Rich

[SoldierHawker]

Do what the hell you like! i bunked most of school! used to jump the fence at dinner time and go fly my harris when i was 14+ Havent got a career in falconry but would love one in it! could never get bored of it ... im an electrician now but always fighting for time to " Go fly the Birds" Learn by yourself! as to be told is not to learn!!!!!

[Falconry Equipment International]

well as someone whome is a master saddler ( got onto working as a a saddler 35 years ago as I was making gloves , hoods etc at the time ) and having produced and supplied falconry equipment nearly all my life, and run a falconry experiences business for nearly 15 years I would strongly suggest what KJL says listen to your parents work hard , make as much money as you can , if you can find shift work or even a job that will allow you to work double shifts in the off season ? moult and then either take more time off / 1/2 shifts during the flying/ hunting season you will end up having a far less frought / stressful life. hth

[ColMartin]

If you really want to do something like this as a living you will find a way, and you will manage one way or the other, if its not for you you will soon find out. Having done it full time I know its not for me, it sort of took the pleasure from my sport, and i missed it.

[Kennelre]

I just keep coming back to the fact that Harris91 is still at school and doesn't even have his first hawk yet. His total experience of falconry to date appears to be a five day course and he has sensibly pointed out that he intends to spend a year with a practising falconer before he commits to his first hawk.
Surely the only truly sensible advice would be for him to see if he actually remains interested in falconry as he learns to manage his own hawk...assuming he actually gets to that point. To encourage a potential career in an area about which he currently knows little doesn't seem the best message to give to an adolescent attempting to work out what direction to take in life..IMHO.


...Rene.

[NavyRaven]

Just my thoughts, having tried it and then packed it in. I would say you are better off doing it in your spare time as many have suggested. You can train the birds you want, for the purpose you want without any other considerations or pressures coming in to play. My first boss told me 'If you enjoy falconry, don't do it as a job' and, of course, i ignored it and went ahead anyway. Some only learn by personal experience and if your one of those people all the advice in the world won't help you, although medication might...

Good Luck either way

[Bateleur J]

Falconry= hunting its something I love to do and I do run a business doing falconry demos, weddings, landfills and airports and make a good wage from it however I have 2 personal hunting birds that aren't flown to their full potencial and it really pains me so what I'd advise is listen to your parents get your grades (I ****ed up amazingly at school I'm 19 and one of those people who say if I could have my time again...) volenteer at a centre get exprience with raptors then if anything you like comes up you have enough exprience to apply if not you have grades and other options ,also I wouldn't employ someone without grades unless I know them personally as my mentality is well they failed school they mustn't be very dedicated and thats coming from someone who did **** up at school! grades and exprience mate then the worlds always open! atb Jakk

[Island Lad]

Just my thoughts, having tried it and then packed it in. I would say you are better off doing it in your spare time as many have suggested. You can train the birds you want, for the purpose you want without any other considerations or pressures coming in to play. My first boss told me 'If you enjoy falconry, don't do it as a job' and, of course, i ignored it and went ahead anyway. Some only learn by personal experience and if your one of those people all the advice in the world won't help you, although medication might...

Good Luck either way

I disagree with the advice your boss gave you. (if you enjoy it don't do it as a job). Surely if you can do a job you love then doesn't that make life all the more enjoyable. I'd rather earn an ok wage doing flying demo's and hunting courses than earning a lot of money sat in an office all day.
My missus has supported me from day one because she can see the love I have for birds. Not once has pay been an issue for her. I guess im lucky in that sense. Oh by the way I failed misserably at school but always knew i'd work with animals in some shape or form.

[Bird Girl]

i havent read the whole thread because i found it really offensive and a lot of people are talking out of their backsides. i have a career in falconry. or i should say in falconry centres and zoos. i have been working with birds of prey for 8 years, some might think that this isnt a very long time, i agree i learn new things every day, and even the people on here who have been doing it for 50 odd years still dont know everything about birds of prey. i have found a very rewarding career in what i do. i work with birds ranging from a merlin right up to griffon vultures and eagles. and on a busy day i have to talk publicly in front of up to 2000 people. if people think that is easy then they dont no what they are talking about. any self respecting presenter will no what i mean. so on a day to day basis i have to take into consideration weather conditions, the health and safety on the public and the safety of the birds i fly, whilst giving a presentation to a high standards. i agree that you learn a lot more about birds of prey working in this environment than if you just have one harris hawk and hunt with it 3-4 times a week. a lot of these "falconers" dont have a clue about different training techniques and natural behaviour. in a falconry centre you look after a varity of birds with different requirements different flight styles and different behavious. what more could you ask for as a keen bop enthusiast. as well as educating and raising awareness to the general public.

[Kennelre]

[QUOTE=Bird Girl;1058127]i havent read the whole thread because i found it really offensive and a lot of people are talking out of their backsides.

I'm impressed that you could know the comments on a thread are offensive without even needing to read them!!
That's a singular talent!!:yawinkle:


...Rene.

[David Rampling]

i havent read the whole thread because i found it really offensive and a lot of people are talking out of their backsides. i have a career in falconry. or i should say in falconry centres and zoos. i have been working with birds of prey for 8 years, some might think that this isnt a very long time, i agree i learn new things every day, and even the people on here who have been doing it for 50 odd years still dont know everything about birds of prey. i have found a very rewarding career in what i do. i work with birds ranging from a merlin right up to griffon vultures and eagles. and on a busy day i have to talk publicly in front of up to 2000 people. if people think that is easy then they dont no what they are talking about. any self respecting presenter will no what i mean. so on a day to day basis i have to take into consideration weather conditions, the health and safety on the public and the safety of the birds i fly, whilst giving a presentation to a high standards. i agree that you learn a lot more about birds of prey working in this environment than if you just have one harris hawk and hunt with it 3-4 times a week. a lot of these "falconers" dont have a clue about different training techniques and natural behaviour. in a falconry centre you look after a varity of birds with different requirements different flight styles and different behavious. what more could you ask for as a keen bop enthusiast. as well as educating and raising awareness to the general public.

Whilst I understand your point, I dont entirely agree. Falconry is about hunting, and fieldcraft. And a thourough grounding in this, with a variety of real falconry birds, should be obtained before going into demos. This enables a good defence of true falconry to the public, talking from experience rather than recieved wisdom. 5 seasons with a Goss, or a good hunting falcon, is invaluable experence, and I think more valuable than 5 years demo work. I can always tell a display falconer without real falconry experience. But hey! thats just me.

[NavyRaven]

I disagree with the advice your boss gave you. (if you enjoy it don't do it as a job). Surely if you can do a job you love then doesn't that make life all the more enjoyable. I'd rather earn an ok wage doing flying demo's and hunting courses than earning a lot of money sat in an office all day.
My missus has supported me from day one because she can see the love I have for birds. Not once has pay been an issue for her. I guess im lucky in that sense. Oh by the way I failed misserably at school but always knew i'd work with animals in some shape or form.

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make, or not how I interpreted it anyway. I believe he was suggesting, and as a believe now, that the pressures of trying to do falconry commercially would twist your enjoyment of it to the point that you no longer enjoyed it. Having see a couple of falconers that have sacrificed practicing the sport to the highest standard for commercial gain I don't believe it is beyond belief.

I will qualify this by saying though that I don't believe that all commercial falconers sacrifice standards for commercial gain, I have met many that prove otherwise and have a great deal of respect for them.

[Island Lad]

I will qualify this by saying though that I don't believe that all commercial falconers sacrifice standards for commercial gain, I have met many that prove otherwise and have a great deal of respect for them.[/quote]


Nicely put, and agreed. We do it for enjoyment and always put the birds welfare before the benefit of the public so in that sense we do keep standards high.

[Miliscer]

At the weekend I watched a very well known and capable falconer do 4 "flying" displays - The public enjoyed the displays but he got quite a ribbing off some of the falconers watching - as we always do!!

So much so that in his last display on the 2nd day he actually made a point of telling the audience about the ribbing he was getting.

In fairness to the guy he actually pointed out in every display that what he was showing was NOT falconry but "showmanship" and he was putting on the displays for the crowd as a whole and nothing else (fair play to him)

Flying a hawk, falcon or eagle in an arena is not and never will be falconry.

Just because you can train a falcon to the lure, a hawk to the fist or a vulture to do tricks, does not make you a falconer - it makes you a bird trainer/presenter - there is a vast difference.

There is a very good bird trainer/presenter on this forum whom I have seen at work, now in his own words he will tell anyone and everyone he is not a falconer - but I can tell you now he is a dam good bird trainer/presenter.

I agree with David in what he says about having the broad background and experience of hunting with the various birds - this will of course give anyone a greater understanding of BoP in the whole.

Mind the same can be said for quite a few of the "New" generation of breeders who have never flown let alone hunted the birds (Or even the species) they are now breeding and selling to people - how can these people offer advice on said birds?

Just my thoughts

Mike

[Bird Girl]

At the weekend I watched a very well known and capable falconer do 4 "flying" displays - The public enjoyed the displays but he got quite a ribbing off some of the falconers watching - as we always do!!

So much so that in his last display on the 2nd day he actually made a point of telling the audience about the ribbing he was getting.

In fairness to the guy he actually pointed out in every display that what he was showing was NOT falconry but "showmanship" and he was putting on the displays for the crowd as a whole and nothing else (fair play to him)

Flying a hawk, falcon or eagle in an arena is not and never will be falconry.

Just because you can train a falcon to the lure, a hawk to the fist or a vulture to do tricks, does not make you a falconer - it makes you a bird trainer/presenter - there is a vast difference.

There is a very good bird trainer/presenter on this forum whom I have seen at work, now in his own words he will tell anyone and everyone he is not a falconer - but I can tell you now he is a dam good bird trainer/presenter.

I agree with David in what he says about having the broad background and experience of hunting with the various birds - this will of course give anyone a greater understanding of BoP in the whole.

Mind the same can be said for quite a few of the "New" generation of breeders who have never flown let alone hunted the birds (Or even the species) they are now breeding and selling to people - how can these people offer advice on said birds?

Just my thoughts

Mike



very good post. u are absolutly right, people in centres, zoos, etc giving displays to the public are not falconers and are not practising falconry. they just just use the same methods to train their birds. i am an animal trainer and presenter, not a falconer. and i always say this in my displays. :D

[Bird Girl]

people are right when they say there isnt much money in a centre of zoo's, however if all you care about is cash then working in this environment is not for you. i dont earn a hell of alot, however i rent my own little house, live on my own, drive a nice car and always have enough money for beer fags and food, and can save 50 pounds a month. so you can survive well on the money if you no how to bugit ureself. and its a very rewarding job working in this type of career.

[Dean]

I worked the other way,did an awful lot of bird training before I actually practised falconry,it has held me in good stead over the years and was helluva an apprenticeship!!!Especially regarding training gamehawks!

[Dean]

Sorry but just thinking back.If you are able to train a first class display falcon ie.....Waiting on at great height,intermittently pulling off great vertical stoops,several passes and back on top again to repeat the performance thrice or more times I think this gives one a great grounding for greater things!Display is all about watching,interacting,controlling both lure and falcon,gamehawking is not dissimilar,obviously not as honest but you are almost there!

[David Rampling]

Sorry but just thinking back.If you are able to train a first class display falcon ie.....Waiting on at great height,intermittently pulling off great vertical stoops,several passes and back on top again to repeat the performance thrice or more times I think this gives one a great grounding for greater things!Display is all about watching,interacting,controlling both lure and falcon,gamehawking is not dissimilar,obviously not as honest but you are almost there!

And thats the problem,... how can anyone defend our sport in front of the tens of thousands who watch the displays, if they have no true understanding, and have never practiced REAL falconry?

I feel real hunting with hawks needs explaining in a thorough and matter of fact way to the public during a display, when done well, no one ever questions it, and much good is done for falconry.

[Harris91]

Thank you to every1 who has posted!! it has evolved into an informative thread for beginers or anyone for that mannor.

Unfortunity I havent been witness to a huge amount of displays but I also feel if the person presenting the birds has had exerience hunting them they would be able to communicate certain aspects of the birds behaviour to their audience. I would love to put on displays when im older but I should and will concentrate on learning how to hunt with birds of prey myself. When I get the oppotunity to vollenteer at my local wildlife trust I take part in local fairs, carnivals and festivals there I interact the with the public talk about the birds on display and what the centres role and aim is I no its on a lower scale to a long wing display but Im stil expected to talk confidently to public and answer any questions they may have if I dont no a question I turn to the chairman (a very knowlegeable women) and ask then I make sure I get back to the spectator who asked the question and tell them the correct answer if there is one.


Im still loooking for a mentor to take me out with their birds next season but their doesnt seem to be a huge amount of people practising falconry in north norfolk :cry: LOL however I will join the BFC this year and try and gain some contacts through that way.

thanks!!...GREAT thread

[Dayglo]

Dont do it. Listen to your parents, find a well paid job.... Then when you have time and game consider taking up a hawk. Volunteer at a good centre and learn that way as you go.

Wise words! By all means find your way into it later in life but for now think about a solid stable job/career.

TB

[Harris91]

That is my plan I want to work in the evironment possibibly do a foundation degree when I leave college. As I have sed previously I want to become a deadicated falconer before I comitt to displays I just want to learn more about what is needed to become a good bird presenter and what advice people had to youngerster like me who are interested in doing something simmilar in the furture.

Thanks

[Island Lad]

And thats the problem,... how can anyone defend our sport in front of the tens of thousands who watch the displays, if they have no true understanding, and have never practiced REAL falconry?

I feel real hunting with hawks needs explaining in a thorough and matter of fact way to the public during a display, when done well, no one ever questions it, and much good is done for falconry.


Spot on, and that is exactly what we do in our demo's. Talk about the birds from a proper Falconry perspective.

[Giant Panda]

That is my plan I want to work in the evironment possibibly do a foundation degree when I leave college. As I have sed previously I want to become a deadicated falconer before I comitt to displays I just want to learn more about what is needed to become a good bird presenter and what advice people had to youngerster like me who are interested in doing something simmilar in the furture.

Thanks

It may be the case that you decide to become a falconer and leave it at that!
It doesn't always follow that being a compitent falconer means you are a natural display giver.Till you're ready therefore,I would offer the same advice that Shakespeare offer the young man considering marraige.........................DONT!;-)

[Bird Girl]

[QUOTE=David Rampling;1063271]And thats the problem,... how can anyone defend our sport in front of the tens of thousands who watch the displays, if they have no true understanding, and have never practiced REAL falconry?

I feel real hunting with hawks needs explaining in a thorough and matter of fact way to the public during a display, when done well, no one ever questions it, and much good is done for falconry.[/QUO


not all people who do displays are falconers. they dont practise falconry. im not a falconer im a bird trainer, when i do shows to the public i dont talk about falconry, and others shouldnt either because what they are doing is nothing to do with falconry. when giving demos i talk about the bird i am flying where it comes from what it eats and natural behavious the way it flys is a natural hunting style etc etc. i never bother mentioning falconry because its pointless. why chat about something which isnt even relevent to what im displaying. what i do is raise awareness, educate, entertain, and inspire people.

[Icarus Fell]

not all people who do displays are falconers. they dont practise falconry. im not a falconer im a bird trainer, when i do shows to the public i dont talk about falconry, and others shouldnt either because what they are doing is nothing to do with falconry. when giving demos i talk about the bird i am flying where it comes from what it eats and natural behavious the way it flys is a natural hunting style etc etc. i never bother mentioning falconry because its pointless. why chat about something which isnt even relevent to what im displaying. what i do is raise awareness, educate, entertain, and inspire people.

Like it or not the general public think that the person flying birds of prey is a falconer.
I think it is worth talking about falconry, the fact that the methods used to train most of the birds are pretty much the same as those used to train falconry birds.
Explain what falconry is all about and why a display is not falconry.

That's what I do anyway.

[FlameHairedFalconer]

people are right when they say there isnt much money in a centre of zoo's, however if all you care about is cash then working in this environment is not for you. i dont earn a hell of alot, however i rent my own little house, live on my own, drive a nice car and always have enough money for beer fags and food, and can save 50 pounds a month. so you can survive well on the money if you no how to bugit ureself. and its a very rewarding job working in this type of career.

Cant be that bad, over half my monthly salary goes on educational loans. I have no savings, no car, no home and no money for anything other than bare essentials.

Guess I went wrong somewhere.....

[Giant Panda]

Like it or not the general public think that the person flying birds of prey is a falconer.
I think it is worth talking about falconry, the fact that the methods used to train most of the birds are pretty much the same as those used to train falconry birds.
Explain what falconry is all about and why a display is not falconry.

That's what I do anyway.

To be fair to Liz, she works in a Zoo environment and it has a heavy bent toward education/animal behaviour.To wax lyrical about falconry isn't what she's paid to do..just explain to the zoo's visitors where a particular raptor is from-what it eats-etc.
I'm sure we all appreciate that falconry methods have been used to teach most hawks in centres/zoo's the basics, but when you are demonstrating a Gymnogene using it's legs inside a pipe, replicating what it does inside tree trunks in wild, how does that depend on falconry?Or Striated Caracara running through pipework and diving into dustbins?
Not really faconry is it?
There's more to display work than HH's and stooping lanners!
Jim

[David Rampling]

[quote=David Rampling;1063271]And thats the problem,... how can anyone defend our sport in front of the tens of thousands who watch the displays, if they have no true understanding, and have never practiced REAL falconry?

I feel real hunting with hawks needs explaining in a thorough and matter of fact way to the public during a display, when done well, no one ever questions it, and much good is done for falconry.[/QUO


not all people who do displays are falconers. they dont practise falconry. im not a falconer im a bird trainer, when i do shows to the public i dont talk about falconry, and others shouldnt either because what they are doing is nothing to do with falconry. when giving demos i talk about the bird i am flying where it comes from what it eats and natural behavious the way it flys is a natural hunting style etc etc. i never bother mentioning falconry because its pointless. why chat about something which isnt even relevent to what im displaying. what i do is raise awareness, educate, entertain, and inspire people.

Cant agree with that, to my (perhaps old fashioned) ideals, its ALL about falconry, and educating the public about falconry, as well as giving them an insight into, and appreciation of, birds of prey!

[Island Lad]

not all people who do displays are falconers. they dont practise falconry. im not a falconer im a bird trainer, when i do shows to the public i dont talk about falconry, and others shouldnt either because what they are doing is nothing to do with falconry. when giving demos i talk about the bird i am flying where it comes from what it eats and natural behavious the way it flys is a natural hunting style etc etc. i never bother mentioning falconry because its pointless. why chat about something which isnt even relevent to what im displaying. what i do is raise awareness, educate, entertain, and inspire people.[/quote]


:lol::lol::lol::lol: - Thats just a daft comment. We always talk about birds in their natural habitat and Falconry, including training and The falconry bits always grab their attention. A few examples of questions I get asked. ...........

... What does it eat, how old is it, why doesnt it fly off, how do you train it etc etc.

People are more interested in the fact that man and bird are working together to put on a display infront of the public and most dont actually care where they come from and unfortunately if its realavant - a large number arent that concerned if the species is endangered or not.
Sad but laregly true.

[Giant Panda]

People are more interested in the fact that man and bird are working together to put on a display infront of the public and most dont actually care where they come from and unfortunately if its realavant - a large number arent that concerned if the species is endangered or not.
Sad but laregly true.[/QUOTE]


I think you'll find in this case, the visitors to Banham zoo are far more interested in wathching the rats clamber along a rope and the baby Giraffs than the magical bond man and bird have,

Jim

[Icarus Fell]

To be fair to Liz, she works in a Zoo environment and it has a heavy bent toward education/animal behaviour.To wax lyrical about falconry isn't what she's paid to do..just explain to the zoo's visitors where a particular raptor is from-what it eats-etc.
I'm sure we all appreciate that falconry methods have been used to teach most hawks in centres/zoo's the basics, but when you are demonstrating a Gymnogene using it's legs inside a pipe, replicating what it does inside tree trunks in wild, how does that depend on falconry?Or Striated Caracara running through pipework and diving into dustbins?
Not really faconry is it?
There's more to display work than HH's and stooping lanners!
Jim

I have heard from a number of people that the displays at Banham are excellent so this is in no way a slight to Liz.

You say there's more to flying displays than Harris Hawks and Lanners like I'm a little child who can't even do up their own trousers. I'm well aware that not all the birds used in bird of prey displays are falconry birds.
But quite a number are. What's wrong with explaining why a falcon is flown to a swung lure? Why a Harris catches a rabbit lure? How the White Tailed Sea Eagle was trained to take a fish lure out of a loch - Oh no! My mistake - we did that! 8-)
Where the hybrid falcon came from
Where the birds were bred?

The whole basis of birds being flown by people comes from the world of falconry. What's wrong with talking about it? It can be done alongside the form-function and behaviour stuff. I should know, I do it every day.

Ross

[Giant Panda]

I have heard from a number of people that the displays at Banham are excellent so this is in no way a slight to Liz.

You say there's more to flying displays than Harris Hawks and Lanners like I'm a little child who can't even do up their own trousers. I'm well aware that not all the birds used in bird of prey displays are falconry birds.
But quite a number are. What's wrong with explaining why a falcon is flown to a swung lure? Why a Harris catches a rabbit lure? How the White Tailed Sea Eagle was trained to take a fish lure out of a loch - Oh no! My mistake - we did that! 8-)
Where the hybrid falcon came from
Where the birds were bred?

The whole basis of birds being flown by people comes from the world of falconry. What's wrong with talking about it? It can be done alongside the form-function and behaviour stuff. I should know, I do it every day.

Ross

Steady on fella!
I'm not having a pop at anyone who does displays,(god knows I did enough of them when i worked at the Hawk Conservancy).
Did I say you were a little child?
All I was (attempting) to point out is that not every display is in a falconry centre situation and it's not always prudent to talk falconry,especially to mums n kids visiting a zoo.
I'm sure you're a very competent falconer,much better than myself as I don't fly every day:wink:

Jim

[Icarus Fell]

Steady on fella!
I'm not having a pop at anyone who does displays,(god knows I did enough of them when i worked at the Hawk Conservancy).
Did I say you were a little child?
All I was (attempting) to point out is that not every display is in a falconry centre situation and it's not always prudent to talk falconry,especially to mums n kids visiting a zoo.
I'm sure you're a very competent falconer,much better than myself as I don't fly every day:wink:

Jim

Yeah, perhaps I should apologise. I was a bit stonger in my reply than I had intended.
I still think that falconry theory had a place in displays but I'll try to put it forward less agressively next time

Ross

[Giant Panda]

Yeah, perhaps I should apologise. I was a bit stonger in my reply than I had intended.
I still think that falconry theory had a place in displays but I'll try to put it forward less agressively next time

Ross

No worries.:D
It occurs to me that any non falconer coming in here for a wee browse must think we are a bunch of loonies.
We are an emotive bunch and no mistake.

Jim

[Jason Rees]

Hi im new to this site but can offer you some advice
A career in wildlife or the countryside is not impossible, i am 42 and just about to finish my National Diploma in Countryside management, this is not degree level but if you put enough volunteer time in this will offset it and give you valubal contacts in the industry you choose,[ try your local councils countryside department] gave a up a well paid job to follow my dream i,ve always hunted with dogs and birds but had to give it up due to work[big mistake] follow your dream and put in the hard work to achieve it.
Look at the various college sites for your nearest for the above course
good luck

[CeeGee]

I couldnt find how old you are but Im sure there are many members on the forum who wished they had followed their dreams when they where younger. Like myself the vast majority of us fall into the rat race and spend far too much of our lives chasing money in order to service our large mortgages, overly expensive car costs and maintain our increasingly demanding children. My advice to you, if you have the desire , is to go for it. Its far easier to resort to a "normal" job than to leave one .
good luck

[Harris91]

thats what im worried about I dont want to be stuck for cash in the future!! and also weather there would be much oppotunity in the years to come...I would love to work with birds and educate people its just those things that are holding me bk from deciding its that I shud go into. For now I will stick to my plan after college do a foundation degree in ecology and wildlife conservation and then become a falconer and see where I am at that point. Then I will decide if I want to follow the environment side or train to become a bird presenter.


Rich

[Johnson C]

thats what im worried about I dont want to be stuck for cash in the future!! and also weather there would be much oppotunity in the years to come...I would love to work with birds and educate people its just those things that are holding me bk from deciding its that I shud go into. For now I will stick to my plan after college do a foundation degree in ecology and wildlife conservation and then become a falconer and see where I am at that point. Then I will decide if I want to follow the environment side or train to become a bird presenter.


Rich

I went straight into the world of centres from 6 form, worked doing hunting days for 3 years during school, then in a centre for 8 months and have been in my current job for 2 years (not flying any birds, but breeding), and I have to say I love the job I do, I work alongside some of the most experienced people in falconry, and I'm doing very well here. saving atleast £200-300 a month (and I'm a bad saver)


As for advice for you? so long as you enjoy it, stay in school and then think about it. volunteer with a centre or someone close to you who is involved in birds of prey during this time for a few days a week.

All the best!

[Bird Girl]

not all people who do displays are falconers. they dont practise falconry. im not a falconer im a bird trainer, when i do shows to the public i dont talk about falconry, and others shouldnt either because what they are doing is nothing to do with falconry. when giving demos i talk about the bird i am flying where it comes from what it eats and natural behavious the way it flys is a natural hunting style etc etc. i never bother mentioning falconry because its pointless. why chat about something which isnt even relevent to what im displaying. what i do is raise awareness, educate, entertain, and inspire people.


:lol::lol::lol::lol: - Thats just a daft comment. We always talk about birds in their natural habitat and Falconry, including training and The falconry bits always grab their attention. A few examples of questions I get asked. ...........

... What does it eat, how old is it, why doesnt it fly off, how do you train it etc etc.

People are more interested in the fact that man and bird are working together to put on a display infront of the public and most dont actually care where they come from and unfortunately if its realavant - a large number arent that concerned if the species is endangered or not.
Sad but laregly true.[/QUOTE]

well thats not really true, seems how last year we were raising awareness for the gyps vulture restoration project during our displays and through a small collection pot manages to raise £3000 over 6 weeks from our visitors. this shows that a large number of visitors were concerned that the species was endangered, more so than the bond between me and my bird. rambling on about my bond with my bird.....its not all about me!! i dont stand in front of a crowd and promote the bond between me and my bird i dont want everyone to think its easy or a good idea to go and buy one. my job is to educate and promote awareness. i do appreciate though that there are falconers out there who do displays and want to talk about falconry to educate people on its history, but its very different to what i do.

[Island Lad]

fair comment, wont argue with that :wink:

[Bird Girl]

ta :)

[Harris91]

How about breeding??..It would be great to hear from the big breeders on here how u started what its like as a career...:supz:


Rich

[Harris91]

Any big time breeders wish to comment on how they started?? and any aspects of it they think might be important for youngsters to know??

[Daave77]

Any big time breeders wish to comment on how they started?? and any aspects of it they think might be important for youngsters to know??


The fact that the market is pretty much saturated with them so unless you are breeding exotics or doing it on a very large scale it won't be much of a career over here I wouldn't have thought.

[Island Lad]

The fact that the market is pretty much saturated with them so unless you are breeding exotics or doing it on a very large scale it won't be much of a career over here I wouldn't have thought.


Yep, saturated with idiots as well.

A local lad who's had one season with a Female Harris (and done a great job) was offered a PR spar from the same breeder. Money driven idiot !

[Harris91]

The fact that the market is pretty much saturated with them so unless you are breeding exotics or doing it on a very large scale it won't be much of a career over here I wouldn't have thought.


I did get tht impression but are breeders generally successfull in making money???...


Rich

[Daave77]

I did get tht impression but are breeders generally successfull in making money???...


Rich

Dont know where you get that impression from - The big breeders maybe but the majority don't make much if any money and tend to do it for love of the birds as opposed to finiancial gain, Harris breeders for instance would be lucky to cut even these days with the costs involved and the small amount of money made from sale - a fair few are still trying to palm off last years stock to those that know no better.

[Icarus Fell]

I think the main profits are in the high value birds. Barn Owls, Eagle Owls, Harris', Kestrels etc - if reared on a good diet will probably end up making very little if any profit.
Peregrines - particularly the more unusual strains, Gyrs, Goshawks and probably Eagles should all make a reasonable profit. You need to have the intial outlay first of course.

[Diegovog]

Fantastic information in this thread.

Would like to thank you all for sharing your experiences and would love to hear more about it. I have recently earned my uni degree and am at the very beginning apprenticeship on falconry, but the time is soon when I will have to decide if I will pursue a full career on it or not... I know at first it can be all excitement and it could be blinding me for a reasonable decision and I still have some months before actually having to take a decision, but still any wise word is valuable to me.

[Flash Gordan]

I also want to get a career in falconry, but I don't really care if I don't get much money, I want to teach about falconry. I'm too young, so Im going to watch shows all that I can. believe me, I know how tempting it is to want to teach about falconry. you should get more experience, and learn as much as you can before you take up teaching. so get a real job first, and maybe you could join something small and see what its like to teach about falconry. :)

best of luck,
Eric

[TonySmith]

That was a very good read, thanks to all who contributed.
My 13 year old ( going on 37...) has decided Falconry is for him, we are extremely fortunate to know a Falconer, and my lad flies the birds quite regularly.
It is really the only thing that he pays intense attention to when the Falconer is explaining and teaching him.
We are attending the Festival of Falconry on both days this weekend...that should be quite an eye opener for him...
A couple of pics of him 'at work'.......

Tony

[BeetleBasher]

Nice to see someone supporting their kid, it isn't easy being into falconry when your parents aren't without lots and lots of support.

Working with hawks all day then flying them in your spare time is too much for some people. No matter how much you may think that you could never get bored of them, at times it can feel like you're stuck in a rut and become pretty boring.

The jobs available are breeding, doing shows and talks, or working for a charity. The money (what little of it there is) is in breeding, and only if you have a large establishment and little competition. Breeding harris hawks in your back garden, needless to say, is not a money spinner.

Doing shows and talks can make money depending on how determined you are to get high up in the job. As has been said before, you have to have some good falconry experience under your belt before going for it, and genuine enthusiasm which will rub off on others. You can't just be a natural show off.

All of these jobs do not involve actual falconry. They are demand-meeting jobs (no matter how much you want to fly eagle owls, there is no point in breeding them because there is no demand). When doing shows, you fly what the boss gives you the way that the boss wants you to fly it - you can't go off and do your own thing until you get higher up the chain.

There is clearance work, which I don't know much about other than it is poorly paid. But that is more like proper falconry, and you are often given more freedom with the hawks you fly. Of all the careers, I think I would pick this one.

However, there is nothing like having your own hawks, trained your own way, hand-picked by you, flying them by yourself at your own quarry on your own permission. You can tell other people to bog off, stop doing it if it starts to rain, and your hawks are like an extension of your body. This is freedom! You're not told what to do by anybody and even if you have a non-ideal job during the day (I'm not saying get one you hate. I couldn't have a job that I wasn't happy with, however you could be a gamekeeper, scientist (research!), zookeeper etc etc), to come home and spend as much time as you want with your own hawk is a joy.

My ambition is to be a research fellow, part of a university doing zoological research in the local area around wherever I happen to live (hopefully Scotland, possibly New Zealand). If I'm able, I will have my hawks and all the freedom in the world to fly them. If I'm in New Zealand I will be a rehabber, perhaps with a small research and conservation centre - but these plans change constantly with my experiences. Everything is possible! The world is your oyster, hitch your wagon to a star etc etc.

Good luck, all fellow ambitious people, especially your son, Tony.

[John Beaumont]

Beetlebasher,

I read your last paragraph with interest. Admit it: you're me, aren't you, writing a decade ago!

[FireAsh123]

That was a very good read, thanks to all who contributed.
My 13 year old ( going on 37...) has decided Falconry is for him, we are extremely fortunate to know a Falconer, and my lad flies the birds quite regularly.
It is really the only thing that he pays intense attention to when the Falconer is explaining and teaching him.
We are attending the Festival of Falconry on both days this weekend...that should be quite an eye opener for him...
A couple of pics of him 'at work'.......

Tony

where in west london are you? im from hanwell-acton but now live near ascot, if he fancys a day out with a goshawk im willing to let him come along and work the dog or ferrets for me:D failing that theres a club that meet near walton on thames.
all the best Ash

[FireAsh123]

ps you could always do shift work of some sort or another and breeding on a semi largeish scale would or could increase your income.
some thing id would like to do one day possible.

[TonySmith]

Hi BeetleBasher and Ash

Thanks for your comments, the Falconry Festival was just amazing, the 'little man' was just knocked out by it all, he loved it,everyone was so friendly, he was chatting with everyone...I think he came away well 'imprinted'...

Ash
Thanks for your kind offer, could you let me know the address at the Walton club meet please.I am from Hanworth TW13 area.

Attach pic, one of 'made his day' moments.....

Best regards
Tony

[carracarra13]

Im a new be to the way of life because I feel hobbie is the wrong word, at 44 Ive decied its time to do my life long dream and make it reality, this discussion has raised some very good points and been very helpful as all aspects are discust, I feel the displays are very important, also the skill of both hunting and displaying I rispect deeply, sorry to jump in on some one elses post, in the very near fucher (after ive had experience with birds including cleaning housing feeding health( you catch my drift) I would love to have a harris to hunt with (ive got use of 20 acers of land and a bird friendly farmer not far away 600 acers) my wife and kids a very keen too

[Daave77]

Im a new be to the way of life because I feel hobbie is the wrong word, at 44 Ive decied its time to do my life long dream and make it reality, this discussion has raised some very good points and been very helpful as all aspects are discust, I feel the displays are very important, also the skill of both hunting and displaying I rispect deeply, sorry to jump in on some one elses post, in the very near fucher (after ive had experience with birds including cleaning housing feeding health( you catch my drift) I would love to have a harris to hunt with (ive got use of 20 acers of land and a bird friendly farmer not far away 600 acers) my wife and kids a very keen too

Start a new thread - you've got plenty of Falconers up your way i'm sure could help.

[Harris91]

Thanks for all your posts its all great stuff!!!

Keep em commming!!

Rich