Just wondering...

[Sean]

Are you allowed to fly birds in local parks? i mean doing creance work and things, not actually hunting.

[Hawkmaster]

I can not see why not? Besides they make great place to do it as long as it is safe and the grass is always just right!

[Goldie]

Sean, if dogs are allowed in the park then you shouldn't have a problem.
However just remember that the dogs themselves WILL be

[Sparrow Hawker]

I do all my training and manning at our local Recreation ground. Like HM said grass is cut nice and short. Dogs arn't supposed to be allowed but you always get a few dog walkers and my Harris dislikes them so I tend to go there when it's nice and quiet and find a secluded spot.

As far as I know it's ok.

Regards,

HH

[Ben C]

...................and the people, kids, parents, etc etc. Cody was very timid at first and so the needs of how the hawk is going to react is paramount at this stage mate. I wouldn't bother, it might not like it in the park and then have a bad association to your daily lesson, and that is bad news mate. :) :)

Remember it is flying out in the open for the first time.......make it LOVE doing that with you :) :) :) :) :)

[Sean]

hi ben
would this not be good manning?
I can easily find a secluded part in the park anway and will be going very early before work anyway

[Ben C]

Anything that can happen will mate!!!! It is a public park. Drunks? druggies? joggers? Dogs? etc etc I know you are supposed to expose you hawk to loads of stuff, but honestly mate you will be surprised what a Harris will find startling.

Shadows, sticks, wind, acorns dropping: Loads of stuff that a human has no idea would be a problem is for a Harris (well mine anyway :) :) ). No book ever told me how hard it is in these intial flights, and other more experienced people said 'don't worry its a breeze Harris Hawks are simple'. Honestly mate is not a breeze no matter who says so. :) :) :)

Personally speaking I would not risk it until you have formed a real bond with your hawk. Walking with it yes, walking with it with a rabbits back bone through the park yes.

But something as important as flying to your fist, gaining your trust, and remaining focused on what is a serious lesson, then the less distractions the better.

Ohers may disagree however. But when you learn't to ride a bike, or when you practiced your guitar (or whatever), did you want anyone watching you! Think like a hawk........then think like a hawk with very powerful vision. :) :) :)

[Ben C]

One more thing Sean.............Ask yourself this

"Am I using the park because its best for the hawk, or Am I using the park because it is nearby and easy for me?"

I mean all of this is a very nice way because mate :) :) :) I am only 12 months ahead of you so this stuff is still fresh in my mind.....Good Luck mate!

[Sean]

The park is actually about the same distance to a few fields near me. but the fields usually have pretty long grass. I thought that being a harris, and seeing dogs, id would really help him get over it. but there a parts of the park that r very secluded. and its a well looked after park, no drunks or anything,

[Ben C]

A Harris and a dog is like adding water to oil on fire. The scream is amazing and quiet shocking. Showing a Harris a dog while doing creance work is a big no no. They will never 'get over it' they just tolerate a dog, I think it is a big difference.:)

Introduce your dog or ferrets early on, but it needs to be in a space the hawk knows well and is relaxed in. If it is in a park, what control have you got in respect to a dog running up to you? None really.

Imagine if the owner was stupid and just let the dog go as you are changing the creance over and the hawk bates REALLY FRANTICALLY and it flies off!!!

As I said, try and think of the worst possible senario....and IT WILL HAPPEN. So prevention is the best cure.

Take your creance up to the field with long grass and see if it is too long for using it. How about a cricket pitch nearby? Ask some farmers for a small paddock? Ask at you local club? But I suggest finding a VERY quiet place for your lessons. Remember you can hood your hawk and travel a fair distance before you start each lesson.

As I say mate....I am probably being over sensitive, but you never know. :) :) :)

[Sean]

a cricket pitch:o here? lol. I was thinking about asking people a a large football stadium, my grandad drinks in their pub, and has been for about 40 years lol so might be in with a chance. only worry is, when i do take the creance off and fly it free, if it ****s of, it will be in the middle of a housing estate :S

[Iamtheweasel]

Ben, If I thought like a hawk, I more than likely would not feel bashful about people watching.... :wink: Doing away with anthropomorphism isn't easy. The two basic states we have to deal with most of the time for fresh birds are fear and hunger. Of course we all know that fear is overcome by hunger and likewise they become fearful when they do not need you for food. Birds don't get bashful about flying anywhere, it is simply that they are afraid of something or they are not hungry enough to warrant the effort to come to you( I will stay away from the possibility of too low condition). I fly my birds on the creance with as much going on as possible. In fact, I schedule times to fly them while a football match it on and I will set up in the field next to it. This tells me that if she will come to me under these circumstances that she is about ready to be turned loose. I man all my birds under the most hectic conditions as possible and within a few days, they are ignoring all but the worst of it. I have three dogs that could walk up and lick the hawks feet without it even looking down to see what was there. I have been at falconry parties and there are twenty people yelling and moving about....all while my bird has it's head tucked under it's wing oblivious to all.
I do alot of educational displays with a local rehab center so I take advantage of the crowds and bring my birds to the events. If you ask me, there is no better way to man a bird than to completely engulf it in human activity from the minute you get it.
Cheers,
Weasel

[Ben C]

Thats great and I admire you for that wease :) I am not anthropomorphising at all mate, I am not asking him to project human emotions onto a hawk, just sympathise with its reactions to new sensory stimuli. :) :)

It would seem to me that you have way more experience of how to handle hawks, this is sean's (and mines) first bird and although it is admirable that you can work with your hawks in this manner. It is way too much for a total green horn. :) :)

It is a massive gaping chasm of fear and wonder flying on the creance, and to do it in a public space when you are still learning to change a swivel over, your glove isn't properly broken in, your still a little frightened of a hawks feet, you are getting used to using only one hand, you have to wind the creance in, and the hawk doesn't respond anyway....is just TOO MUCH. And along with the chance of a bloody great dog bounding up would make a negative experience for hawk and handler.

But as I say Sean it is your call, but I would go for a smooth ride mate......................:) :) :) :)

[GDN]

I'm not sure it is such a good thing to do the training in the park. I was always told to do the training where you are going to fly the bird so it gets used to that environment. If the grass is to long ask the landowner if it is ok to cut it

What happens when you want to fly it free. Do you fly it free in the park the first couple of times it is ok but as the bird gets more confident and as you start to get more confident you start to get it to follow on and then it sees something and it is off chasing something and grabs a small dog. Nice advert for the sport. NOT.

Also you have to deal with people coming up and asking questions. About 5 or 6 years ago a guy was flying a HH in his local park somewhere in Glasgow. A whole load of kids came up asking questions. Something happened and the bird got spooked - not sure what. It footed 1 of the kids in the face. The kid had to get stitches. When the papers (Sun and Daily Record) got hold of the story they made it sound like HH were roaming the countryside taking out kids at will.

Don't do it there is to much that could go wrong

[Iamtheweasel]

As with all things associated with birds of prey, it takes alot of competance on the falconers part to be safe in all situations for both the birds safety and the safety of the public. All the more reason to have a bird that does not freak out at the slightest thing. As for the guy who's Harris's hawk footed some kid in the face.....Sounds as though he needs to have his falconry skills and ethics reviewed for not having control of his bird.

[Ben C]

As with all things associated with birds of prey, it takes alot of competance on the falconers part to be safe in all situations for both the birds safety and the safety of the public. All the more reason to have a bird that does not freak out at the slightest thing.

Absolutely, which is why a beginner should not be encouraged to practice in a public park. Just to be on the safe side. :) :) :) :) :)

[Sean]

the reason i dont wanna do creance where where i will be hunting is because the game might get smart, especially all the rooks and magpies lol

[North East Harris Hawker]

i have started training in parks before in the past. the only trouble with it is people with dogs who allways seem to rock up just at the moment your bird is about to fly :evil: they then seem to hang around for ages "wasting your life" best to pick your bird up and do the training on a football pitch that is not being used :wink:

[GDN]

Sean

How big is the area you are planning to fly on?
Your BoP will not be the first BoP the prey has seen. They probably have been up against a lot better BoP which are more skilled and fitter than yours. Nothing against your bird I am sure it is very healthy and very good but i am talking about the wild population of birds of prey. When you turn up with your BoP the prey species are going to know what the game plan is and it won't make any difference if they have watched creance work or not.

[Sean]

yes there is a few spars sbout and a pair of buzzards have been spotted nearby

[BlackHawke]

i have permission from a small local football club to train my birds there (goal posts made great perches, nowt to catch the creance on!). i think when training your bird just use your common sense at the end of the day especially if its your first bird you are always more cautious. you just have to be aware of the environment around you and whos about.

If you get approached by a member of the public ALWAYS keep one eye on ya bird!!

[North East Harris Hawker]

watch out for low power cables too when you are using a creance :wink:

[Ben C]

Sean.............do not worry about the quarry getting smart. YOUR FIRST AND ONLY CONSIDERATION AT THIS STAGE IS YOUR HAWK mate :) :) :)
What the prey does and doesn't do is about 1000th on any list you could make at this stage. Take it a step at a time and give 100% at each stage.

Ask yourself "What does my hawk want, what does my hawk need, how safe will it be, what will scare it, how calm and controlled is the set up?"

good luck. :)