Longwingers - How Long Do You Give It ?

[Pete Kent]

I'm interested to know how long you would continue to train your bird if it is not naturally gifted in the particular area you are aiming for, for example: 'Game Hawking', 'Rook Hawking' etc. etc..

Obviously not everyone has the resources to change birds whenever they want to but that aside how long do you keep trying before you decide it's a lost cause ?

[Dean]

I'm interested to know how long you would continue to train your bird if it is not naturally gifted in the particular area you are aiming for, for example: 'Game Hawking', 'Rook Hawking' etc. etc..

Obviously not everyone has the resources to change birds whenever they want to but that aside how long do you keep trying before you decide it's a lost cause ?
Im a firm believer that if the falcon is a fine specimen,purchased at the correct age and trained correctly there shouldnt be a problem!

[Stephen]

hi pete
how goes it down your end m8
i dont tent to give up on any of them and always hope they will turn the corner
and realise what they have to do
some take longer than others :roll:

atb
stephen

[David Rampling]

It might not be relevant, but as far as demo falcons are concerned, some take several years to become top class, improving year on year. But some are born amazing and take very little work to be impressive.

Hunting falcons I believe are much more straightforward, as long as enough suitable slips are given to a young bird under the right conditions, then you dont have to wait so long.

[Pete Kent]

hi pete
how goes it down your end m8
i dont tent to give up on any of them and always hope they will turn the corner
and realise what they have to do
some take longer than others :roll:

atb
stephen

Hi Steve,

Good thanks mate. Hope you're well.
I have the same thoughts but lately I have seen a few falconers give up on birds.

I tend to keep going and try different techniques if a bird isn't performing to a good standard but there are those who will give a bird one season and then think their time would be better spent on another bird.

In case you're wondering I'm still flying that rascal you and me walked through rivers, ripped the bums out of our pants on barbed wire fences, huffed and puffed up hills, and appeared at the crack of dawn in freezing driven rain to recover ! Oh and climbed a tree in your case.

[Pete Kent]

It might not be relevant, but as far as demo falcons are concerned, some take several years to become top class, improving year on year. But some are born amazing and take very little work to be impressive.

Hunting falcons I believe are much more straightforward, as long as enough suitable slips are given to a young bird under the right conditions, then you dont have to wait so long.
I agree. Also I think some types of hybrids can take a little more time and dedication.

[Stephen]

Hi Steve,

Good thanks mate. Hope you're well.
I have the same thoughts but lately I have seen a few falconers give up on birds.

I tend to keep going and try different techniques if a bird isn't performing to a good standard but there are those who will give a bird one season and then think their time would be better spent on another bird.

In case you're wondering I'm still flying that rascal you and me walked through rivers, ripped the bums out of our pants on barbed wire fences, huffed and puffed up hills, and appeared at the crack of dawn in freezing driven rain to recover ! Oh and climbed a tree in your case.

well he does fly well pete
i was still trying with the gyr/saker until he started moulting he was getting really close knocking the feathers out of some pheasants just not binding to them
well theres always the coming season :roll:

stephen

[BarbaryHawking06]

I'm interested to know how long you would continue to train your bird if it is not naturally gifted in the particular area you are aiming for, for example: 'Game Hawking', 'Rook Hawking' etc. etc..

Obviously not everyone has the resources to change birds whenever they want to but that aside how long do you keep trying before you decide it's a lost cause ?

my first peregrine tiercel (gamehawk) annoyed me with sitting behaviour for 2 month a lot due to my inexperience at the time, I re-trained him from scratch and he turned out to be the most outstanding performer that till now I ever had. For a female peregrine I would say 2 years, at least...

[Hatchero]

eight weeks on game and you will know if the bird will be on the team or not. find another home for it if it is not getting with the program at that point. life is too short to keep average birds, let alone below average birds. i cant say what a great bird would be but i know it when i see it--no mistake.
Jim

[Pearl]

funny you should post this question mate ive been flying my pere x lanner now for her 4th season and she is going down hill as time goes on , the only problem i have i love this falcon to bits and has in her past served me well , people keep telling me to sell her as she is no longer doing what she used to , fact of the matter is i dont think i can i take her out 7 days a week without fail some times she does well sometimes not but ill keep ,
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/PICT0369.jpg
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/PICT0340.jpg
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/perexlanner030.jpg

[Pete Kent]

well he does fly well pete
i was still trying with the gyr/saker until he started moulting he was getting really close knocking the feathers out of some pheasants just not binding to them
well theres always the coming season :roll:

stephen

Had some good days with him lately. I hope you stick with it with your Gyr/Saker, that's a cracking looking bird and goes up well.

[Pete Kent]

eight weeks on game and you will know if the bird will be on the team or not. find another home for it if it is not getting with the program at that point. life is too short to keep average birds, let alone below average birds. i cant say what a great bird would be but i know it when i see it--no mistake.
Jim

Hi Jim, do you not think a bird who is for want of a better expression 'a late starter' can be turned ?

[Hatchero]

Hi Jim, do you not think a bird who is for want of a better expression 'a late starter' can be turned ?
sure, you can make even a complete dud be ok. it takes time and patience--just the thing for someone else. you only have so many birds ahead of you why fiddle around with a late starter that takes up a valuable slot on the dance card? i would rather not, due to my lazy streak and a strong desire to see really great birds and those birds are all born not made.
Jim

[Pete Kent]

sure, you can make even a complete dud be ok. it takes time and patience--just the thing for someone else. you only have so many birds ahead of you why fiddle around with a late starter that takes up a valuable slot on the dance card? i would rather not, due to my lazy streak and a strong desire to see really great birds and those birds are all born not made.
Jim

I understand and can see your point but I on the other hand I know a falconer who bought a Gyr/Peregrine, in its first year to use his words it was "a pile of ****" but he pursued it with this bird. It turned out to be phenomenal and was the envy of everyone who saw it fly.

I do think birds can be like us, some are quick to learn and some are slower but the slower ones can be better in the end. That's just my opinion.

There are a lot of birds out there which have been sold due to their being slow to learn (I'm talking about hunting birds not just lure birds).

[Bateleur J]

funny you should post this question mate ive been flying my pere x lanner now for her 4th season and she is going down hill as time goes on , the only problem i have i love this falcon to bits and has in her past served me well , people keep telling me to sell her as she is no longer doing what she used to , fact of the matter is i dont think i can i take her out 7 days a week without fail some times she does well sometimes not but ill keep ,
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/PICT0369.jpg
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/PICT0340.jpg
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/perexlanner030.jpg

mark that has got to be my favourite falcon on this entire site seriously stunning bird regardless of how its performing in the field. what is their flying style? its proboly the only hybrid longwing that has an appeal to me

[Pearl]

mark that has got to be my favourite falcon on this entire site seriously stunning bird regardless of how its performing in the field. what is their flying style? its proboly the only hybrid longwing that has an appeal to methanks jakk ,
she was been used on landfill, displays, and now flown for fun she dont hood but with a face like that why cover it up lol , she is as steady as they come , she will stoop to the lure and can at times speck out , and she will catch the odd crow , as she stands at the min would make an excellent display bird as she is the most loyal falcon ive ever flown ive only had the telem out once in fours years for her
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/PICT0151-1.jpg

[Bateleur J]

thanks jakk ,
she was been used on landfill, displays, and now flown for fun she dont hood but with a face like that why cover it up lol , she is as steady as they come , she will stoop to the lure and can at times speck out , and she will catch the odd crow , as she stands at the min would make an excellent display bird as she is the most loyal falcon ive ever flown ive only had the telem out once in fours years for her
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/stoop09/PICT0151-1.jpg

i think if a peri/lanner has the personality of a lanner and the tenaciousness of a peri i think its something i'm defo gonna consider in the very near future but i guess from what your saying is they are like a peri and then eventully mellow out like a lanner or is that wide of the mark, all the best Jakk

[Bird Girl]

Hi, I think different birds often have different preffered styles of flight and its the falconers job to enhance their particular birds style and shape it best as possible to suit their own needs as a falconer. I dont think its about giving up on your bird... more about reconcidering your aim.

[GDN]

There are a lot of birds out there which have been sold due to their being slow to learn (I'm talking about hunting birds not just lure birds).[/QUOTE]

I would also say there is a lot of birds that have been sold due to their owners being a slow to learn and don't want to admit to it. It is always very easy to blame the bird after all it can't talk back and tell it's side.

The way i look at is that when you get a young you should look at as a blank canvess. You decide what goes on it.

Now i am not saying that if a bird flies badly or not to it's full potental then that the owner doesn't know what he/she is doing as there is alot of other things that influence as to how a bird turns out like the weather and luck whern getting it entered.

There is also natural ability and it is maybe the birds that seem to have natural ability that are the ones that would survive in the wild while others would die. In captivity though as we know it is very different and if the birds misses it still gets fed.

I would always stick with a bird

[Little Joe]

really great birds and those birds are all born not made.
Jim

There's something in what you say Jim, but its not that cut and dried I reckon.

There are good birds and good falconers - when both come together you see magic, but the best bird in the world can be messed up and a good falconer can create a fantastic gamehawk from an average bird.

I think a really outstanding bird takes a few seasons to come to its own.

Nature's statistics tell us that only one out of four birds should be good enough, but I think a falconer should have more patience than natural selection. There is a special feeling of achievement in bringing a bird around that was considered a dud. But maybe thats just the rebel in me talking... ;)

[Jack]

Pete, what is it that you are trying to do that you find so frustrating? Are you flying at game or rough? It is true what Jim says about great birds being born, but that will not happen without some fine tuning in most cases, and a falconer must have the skills to expose that ability. Not saying you don't have it, but there seems to be a problem here somewhere. Give us a rundown on what you are trying to achieve and what problems you have run into while doing it.

Jack

[Pete Kent]

Pete, what is it that you are trying to do that you find so frustrating? Are you flying at game or rough? It is true what Jim says about great birds being born, but that will not happen without some fine tuning in most cases, and a falconer must have the skills to expose that ability. Not saying you don't have it, but there seems to be a problem here somewhere. Give us a rundown on what you are trying to achieve and what problems you have run into while doing it.

Jack

Hi Jack,
The main problems my mates and I come up against are caused mainly by having unsuitable land to train 'game hawks', it makes it hard work. Given our restrictions locally we don't do too bad. The thing is a couple of mates are tending to give up on their birds if they don't show signs of being 'superstars' real early on. Personally I tend to stick with it and try other metrhods if I encounter a problem.

The point I'm interested in is more or less what Jim said, which is: do you look for a natural good bird or do you persist and make a good bird ? Seems to me that sadly a lot of people these days give up too quickly.

PS I see you're a retired printer - same as me.

[Dean]

Hi Jack,
The main problems my mates and I come up against are caused mainly by having unsuitable land to train 'game hawks', it makes it hard work. Given our restrictions locally we don't do too bad. The thing is a couple of mates are tending to give up on their birds if they don't show signs of being 'superstars' real early on. Personally I tend to stick with it and try other metrhods if I encounter a problem.

The point I'm interested in is more or less what Jim said, which is: do you look for a natural good bird or do you persist and make a good bird ? Seems to me that sadly a lot of people these days give up too quickly.

PS I see you're a retired printer - same as me.
Sorry to butt in Pete but a lot of it is down to expectations,there are a lot of dreamers in this area of flying,usually those that search too far are usually the failures!

[Pete Kent]

Sorry to butt in Pete but a lot of it is down to expectations,there are a lot of dreamers in this area of flying,usually those that search too far are usually the failures!
Hi Dean, I think 'game hawking' is definately the hardest and most testing area in falconry. We live ever more increasingly in a 'throw away society'.

[Dean]

Hi Dean, I think 'game hawking' is definately the hardest and most testing area in falconry. We live ever more increasingly in a 'throw away society'.
Thats why I fly only duck mate,making the falcon up is fairly basic and the set ups are very true!