2005 Female Social Imprint Sparrowhawk

[OutFlying]

Day 15, 188 grams empty.

[Finnish]

Is this the new bird then Jim.

[ColdZero]

...

[OutFlying]

Yes, she is the new addition to the household. The Gsp pup is learning all about hawks and the my youngest son Joseph (5) is handling her constantly. Hope to put last season imprint experiences and new techniques to full use this season. More physical handling and petting than advised in The Imprint Accipiter, which was my main reference material last year.

[OutFlying]

good luck, what is that you are feeding her?

Full quail, minus beak, guts and feet - put through the hand mincer. Will alternate with pigeon.

OF.

[Finnish]

Nice one mate let us no how you get on then. :wink:

[Falcon]

Happy memories come flooding back seeing the pics Jim, hope she turns out a gooden!

[Moses]

mate whats the going rate on them


cheers

[OutFlying]

you have to find one first :roll:

[Tim Laycock]

you have to find one first:wink:

Your lad looks a lot more awake than he did yesterday Jim :lol:
I see she has shat in the tank already :x :lol:

[OutFlying]

The should have seen the marker she laid down when the plastic cover was off :lol:

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

Nothing ****s quite like a Spar does it!! :lol:

[Adam Barrett]

you have to find one first
8) nice one mate

[M & J Raptors]

Jim

I would have thought that you had enough Gos **** last year to last you a lifetime, :lol: its an early bird that Jim.

[OutFlying]

Mick,
I think I'm a glutton for punishment, or I'm getting a liking for housework :oops:

Jim.

[Tim Laycock]

Pmsl :lol:

[OutFlying]

Mick,
I'm aiming to get the imprinting technique worked out using last years results and lessons learnt. Anything you think that not's applicable to a spar when compared to an imprint gos during inital raising and entering ?
Jim.

[M & J Raptors]

Mick,
I'm aiming to get the imprinting technique worked out using last years results and lessons learnt. Anything you think that not's applicable to a spar when compared to an imprint gos during inital raising and entering ?
Jim.

No,

Fly the **** out of her, or you could fly a PR spar, or maybe a passage, :?

[OutFlying]

Fly the **** out of her, now there's an idea :lol: It will be an interesting year out from the gosses to see just what a spar is capable of and to compare the initial speed difference from the slip from the fist between the 2.

Jim.

[M & J Raptors]

Jim

Bit like the thread Ferrari and evo, :D

[OutFlying]

Mick,
If I had the time it would be a gos, but time is short and I want to experience the sport with a spar and not have to read about it in a book :wink: If they require more handling skill in the field it will be helpful when the next gos comes along.
Jim.

[Moses]

you have to find one first :roll:

so if i catch or find one in the countryside i wont get fined 2k then , is that what u mean :D

[NightOwl]

OF - just curious as to why flying a spar would be less time consuming than a gos?
cheers

[Tim Laycock]

Because you can just put some bread out in the garden :rolleyes: :lol: pmsl

[OutFlying]

you have to find one first :roll:

so if i catch or find one in the countryside i wont get fined 2k then , is that what u mean :D

No Moses, I mean try and find a breeder of spars in this country that has one available then ask the price. £200 ish is the going rate for a female.

OF.

[GoshawkRST]

OAU !!!!!!! What a bird!!!!!! I'll get mine at the end of this month (spar female). More fotos.... please :D !!!
Best regards!
Sergiu...

[OutFlying]

OF - just curious as to why flying a spar would be less time consuming than a gos?
cheers

Due to the fact I can walk out my front door and find suitable quarry to fly the spar at. If I want to fly a gos at pheasant or partridge, I would need to spend the summer rearing them, pest control, filling feed hoppers etc - this is very time consuming and this is only during the summer then winter comes. Winter flying with the gos is very time consuming trying to get a good setup flying over a pointer walking miles over moors etc, driving to and from the land. It all adds up but to find quarry for a spar is much easier and not as time consuming.

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

I mean try and find a breeder of spars in this country
Or failing that get a mate that can get you one from another country :wink: :wink: :D

[Moses]

you have to find one first :roll:

so if i catch or find one in the countryside i wont get fined 2k then , is that what u mean :D

No Moses, I mean try and find a breeder of spars in this country that has one available then ask the price. £200 ish is the going rate for a female.

OF.

cheers mate :)

lol @ blackbird :D maybe give that a try someday

[OutFlying]

Day 16, can stand for short periods, eats and sleeps a lot. Followed a fly flying in the kitchen - her head was bobbing and tracking the flies movement, very alert. Tail feathers and outer wing feathers just emerging from their sheaths.

Now got to get round to painting the front room once the spar moves out.

[GoneHawking]

Nice one Jim, My Spar cost me £250 last year from a guy up Norfolk way, I was really lucky to get her as someone dropped off the waiting list, Well worth the money, The only thing I would say is that it is very hard to get a slip when your on you own or just out with the dog, everything seems to slip out the other side of the hedge, the ideal setup would be to have some reliable active beaters.

[OutFlying]

I found the same when a friend flew one for a season, without beaters it was pretty bleak. Lucky for me - the wife provided my with 2 ready made beaters (2 sons). :lol:

OF.

[Hawkmaster]

Looks good Jim, have FUN. As has been said before brings back GOOD memories, I just love these little rockets.

I like your tube, did you make it?

THREAD MOVED BECAUSE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO FOLLOW THE PROGRESS :twisted:

[Tim Laycock]

OK Jim, So she watches the Fly, But how long before she can catch it with a pair of chop sticks :lol:pmsl

I like your tube, did you make it? :mrgreen:

[OutFlying]

BB,Is the imprint tube maestro :lol: made to ISO 9002 specifications.

[Tim Laycock]

made to ISO 9002 specifications. :lol: Rpmsl

[Hawkmaster]

BB maybe you need to start a thread on that one mate? Nice Job!

[Tim Laycock]

Will Do HM, Soon as I get back off holliday :D

[Jastreb]

OF do you have lots of baggies for your spar?
Will you feed your bird on dead body of prey like McDermott said and will you finish your lure lesson with baggies-also McDermott?
Cheers J

[NightOwl]

CHEERS FOR THE PREVIOUS ANSWER OF. WHAT IS THE BREEDING IN YOUR POINTER - I MUST SAY HE LOOKS A CRACKER. SIMILAR TO THE ONES YOU ADVERTISED?

[OutFlying]

CHEERS FOR THE PREVIOUS ANSWER OF. WHAT IS THE BREEDING IN YOUR POINTER - I MUST SAY HE LOOKS A CRACKER. SIMILAR TO THE ONES YOU ADVERTISED?

he's 8 months old but he's a german shorthaired pointer, the advert was for english pointers.

[NightOwl]

YES SILLY ME. WHAT ABOUT THE BREEDING THEN?

[OutFlying]

YES SILLY ME. WHAT ABOUT THE BREEDING THEN?

No famous lines to speak of, bred locally - shows good potential if a little immature. Good nose.

OF.

[OutFlying]

224 grams today

[Jastreb]

230 grams ring number 22-mine
234 grams ring number 23
Male is sold out yesterday, he was 200 grams!

[OutFlying]

230 grams ring number 22-mine
234 grams ring number 23
Male is sold out yesterday, he was 200 grams!

What age ?

[Jastreb]

Pic few seconds ago!
I got her on my knees while I am snooping around on the forum :D 8) !

[Musket]

Nice pic . how old is She?

[Jastreb]

20 days old!
They were a bit earlier.
They are eating 3 times a day.

[Musket]

I would realy love to fly a spar! but I am being told to keep with the larger hawks first, for all the reasons that have been talked about B4
on the forum,

[Jastreb]

Thats good idea few biger birds are better before spar if you are beginner, you will have more expirience for spar!
OF one of my friends who also has female spar, called me few minutes ago.
His female, 21 days old 225 grams!!!!!!!!!! :partyman: :supz: :prayer:
Piece of her!!!!!

[Shaun Byrne]

Pic few seconds ago!
I got her on my knees while I am snooping around on the forum :D 8) !

Jastreb, are you wearing a white dress???? :D

[Goran]

Jastreb, what will you bring here this fall?

[OutFlying]

now standing steady

[GoneHawking]

Jim, she is looking great, I love rearing spars and looking at these pics and hearing stories about flying them, I might just take mine up at the end of the moult and fly her again this year, I was hoping to find a musket and try and breed them, But who knows if I can't get a finnish male gos this year then thats what I might do. :lol:

[OutFlying]

Jim, she is looking great, I love rearing spars and looking at these pics and hearing stories about flying them, I might just take mine up at the end of the moult and fly her again this year, I was hoping to find a musket and try and breed them, But who knows if I can't get a finnish male gos this year then thats what I might do. :lol:

Decisions decisions :wink:

[GoneHawking]

Just wondering how wild the little girl will be after the summer free lofted in the mews :(

[OutFlying]

Have you maintained physical contact with her, can she see you ? I liked to know as I will need the information for the spar next summer.

What did you fly the spar at and was she successful ?

OF.

[GoneHawking]

I go into the mews daily to feed her, so she see's me alot, she is skitty though at her fat weight (to be expected) the main problem I can see with free lofting a spar is that when food is given adlib, she can pick it up and carry to a higher perch, thus encouraging her to carry.
Due to the fact I mainly flew solo (with the pointer) she was not very succesfull, a couple of dickie birds, a cock blackbird (her best flight and kill), she is a small spar and flys at 8oz, she doesn't really look at magpies or pigeons, but loves to chase blackbirds and smaller fry, One thing though she never ever stops chasing, even though kills have not always come her way, something a Gos would have surely got fed up with and started to self hunt, She was great fun to fly and we had some really good flights, good quality aswell.

[Anton Deja]

Hi ,

Mi spar is now 20 days old and 209 grams .

Anton

[Anton Deja]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[OutFlying]

bright yellow legs - like it

[Anton Deja]

xxxxxxxxxxxx

[OutFlying]

what are you feeding her ?

[Anton Deja]

1 day old chiks
Rat
Small birds

[Musket]

shes a real buauty Anton,

[Tim Laycock]

(wolf whistle) Nice set of pins :mrgreen:

[Jastreb]

Goran I hope I will bring her or male german(maybe female german :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )!
Čut ćemo se uskoro!
And H4wka, yes I am wearing a dress :oops: :oops: , you got me 8) :mrgreen: !
Cheers boys!

[Shaun Byrne]

:D :D :D

[Jastreb]

Yo boys,
These to spars are littel dragons, tey are running everywhere :supz: !
It is very interesting to make notice between two almoust same birds, their charackters, feeding habits.....
Here will be some interesting things, I will post you on time :supz: :D !

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
When did you (what age ) swap to carcass feeding ? Is that minced food place on top of the carcass or just cut carcass meat ?

OF.

[Jastreb]

I started with feeding on carcass (pheasnt wings, magpie wings, whole dead quails and partridges) at 10 days old.
I put food on the top of the carcass in the beginnig, and last few days I just cut carcass meat.
When I was placing other meat on the carcass, I just cut it with knife. I was using quails, DoC's, rabbit, wilde hare, starlings and sparrows meat-cut on the pieces and mixed with my hands.
It was interesting yesterday, when I put them out in the field, and they saw prepaird death pheasant, they start running on him like mad :twisted: 8)
Are you doing with carcass?
Cheers Jastreb

[Finnish]

Love all these pictures keep them coming. :wink:

[OutFlying]

Not yet, will start after the weekend. She's still with 24 hour chopped food, with 3 good feeds a day.

Jim.

[Jastreb]

Will you give her 3 times a day food avaylability until she will have full grown feathers, or you will start with smaller portions when she starts running around!
I saw that my are not soo keen all two or three times per day because they have lots of food.
Viktor

[Anton Deja]

Hi Amigo's
Mi spar now 255 grams and eating for the first time horse hart .
Tomorrow starting with quail wings .
See you !!


Anton

[OutFlying]

Will you give her 3 times a day food avaylability until she will have full grown feathers, or you will start with smaller portions when she starts running around!
I saw that my are not soo keen all two or three times per day because they have lots of food.
Viktor

Viktor,
I'll leave 24 hour food till full feathered, but will use carcass and garnised lure for feeding. She only eats 3 times a day now, 2 small meals during day and large one late evening. Maybe when stronger on foot will feed in different places by taking her near meal times to strange locations with the lure already in place and get her to go to the food.

Jim.

[Ben C]

Awesome and full respect my true accipiter friends. Brilliant. :) :)

[M & J Raptors]

OF

Why is the colour of your spars feet very pale, compared to the other spars on the forum. :lol:

are the others from good wild breeding stock. :shock:

[Jastreb]

Good looking NBK-natural born killer :mrgreen: :twisted: :twisted: !
Cheers

[OutFlying]

OF

Why is the colour of your spars feet very pale, compared to the other spars on the forum. :lol:

are the others from good wild breeding stock. :shock:

I'm thinking of feeding her "corn on the cob", will this help :oops: Now on a diet of pigeon, was fed on honeybrook enhanced vitimin E prime quail - feathers, bone, meat everything through the mincer as per the gos.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Day 22, 250 grams this morning empty.

[Adam Barrett]

Who bred her mate???

[OutFlying]

A guy from Newcastle,

[Adam Barrett]

o right-hope you have a good season with her mate,
she looks a craker 8)

[GoneHawking]

Jim, Was that Dave from Newcastle under lyme?

[OutFlying]

No, Newcastle upon Tyne

[Jastreb]

Look at those feather pups.
It was very interesting when they were thinking that tits from Ina(bitch) are pieces of meat :D :twisted: :D !

[Jastreb]

SPAR GANGSTAS 8) :twisted: 8) :twisted: !

[OutFlying]

Viktor,
Have you decided which one your keeping ? How long before you split them ?
Jim.

[Ben C]

What would happen if they were not split? Would they eventually fight with one another? Superb jastreb......you are making life very hard for a lot of falconers with this thread. I am sure there are a lot of girlfriends/wives asking about getting 'one of those fluffy things'. :) :) :) :) :)

[Wilfred]

well..i guess the adult sparrowhawk will also be much or more appreciated by the family....

[Jastreb]

OF one girlie spar is littel bit more active when she sees me, but another is more active when she grabs the lure or carcass :rolleyes: , so I have one more week to make decision.
Think, number two will be my decision, I will post you!
BenC you must split them if you want to fly them, for few weeks they must introduce bow perch, jesses, bells etc. If you give them big feed they are calm. Only when they grab the food, for first few secs they are mantling over it and then everything is allright!
WIMAN LIKS THEM A LOOOOOOT :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :!mrgreen:

[Ben C]

If you reared them up together until adulthood, would you be able to fly them in a cast or would they just kill each other?

[Jastreb]

Only time when I saw cast of imprint Accipiters was Dave Jones gosses, so I think there is possibilitie of flying them in cast.
Unfortunatly, I also have male imprint gos, so I think I want be able to try that, because I don't have so much free time :cry: :cry: !
If I try I will save that on film!

[OutFlying]

There is no quarry on this planet that needs two accipiters to catch it ......................................

OF

ps if so, then you shouldn't be flying it.

[M & J Raptors]

There is no quarry on this planet that needs two accipiters to catch it ......................................

OF

ps if so, then you shouldn't be flying it.

HeH Jim

Just think group hawking with Goshawks :shock:

what a load of ********,

a Gos should be flown from the fist at selective quarry that will give a sporting flight,

if you want to mug stuff in groups fly a HH. :twisted:

[Shaun Byrne]

There is no quarry on this planet that needs two accipiters to catch it ......................................

Unless you were flying at HH :twisted:

[Ben C]

:)

[Ben C]

Aaaah the plaintive cry of the goshawkers :) :) Don't worry boys It's all theory and speculation. But from your reaction and kindly shared information it must stay that way. And I am not likely to ever get one so your species will be safe from my nonsense :) :)

What about 2 goses on an Ostritch, thay can shift pretty fast :) :) :) :)

[Jastreb]

Hawking with one acipiter in is quit enough for you and your :heart: !

[Ben C]

I can imagine, thanks jastreb :) :) :)

[OutFlying]

Conditioning the spar to noise, a nice bit of grass mowing

[Finnish]

She is looking good and love the umbrella

[Finnish]

You should name her Stella. :wink:

[Falcon]

:lol: :twisted: She's looking good Jim!

[Jastreb]

Well boys, I should make decision this week, which one to chose :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:!
When I put them out in the field today afternoon, I swung the lure and girl (262 g empty) came very fast, grabed the chick and mantled over it. I touch her feet, she was no agressive, make noise.
Girl (259 empty) went in wrong direction, then came on the lure, took chick No. 2, didn't mantle and made very littel nois :?: :idea: :?: :idea: :!: :idea:
They are still young, but you know that you always take care about some details!!!!
SOOOOOOOOOOO :?: :idea:

[OutFlying]

what age Viktor ?

[Jastreb]

27 days old!
And????

[Goldie]

Jim, how is your spar measuring up against Viktors regards weight at same age etc ? I dont ask as to a competative nature but merely as comparison with regards Uk and eastern block accipiters like we do with gosses. ie Czech and hungarian being smaller than UK which in turn are smaller than German.
Prob didn't phrase that right but you know where i'm coming from
Jim

[OutFlying]

Just getting an idea what difference a few days makes, mine is 5 days younger. Now standing strong and getting a couple of inch off the floor with wing beats.

OF.

[Goldie]

Yeah I understand yours is younger, but do you have a weight on viktors 5 days ago to compare yours with today or previous weights of his that ties in when yours reached the same age

[OutFlying]

Jim, how is your spar measuring up against Viktors regards weight at same age etc ? I dont ask as to a competative nature but merely as comparison with regards Uk and eastern block accipiters like we do with gosses. ie Czech and hungarian being smaller than UK which in turn are smaller than German.
Prob didn't phrase that right but you know where i'm coming from
Jim

I haven't weighed her for a couple of days, but there doesn't seem to be a difference from previous comparisons. I will weigh her empty tomorrow.
She was 250 grams empty on day 22.
Jim.

[Goldie]

Jim, by my reckoning, Viktors have increased by approx 30g from 20 to 27 days, to a weight of 259 and 262.
As yours was 250g at 22 days i would reckon you will be in the 270g+ region and although only one instance it may be that our spars are slightly bigger than the one from that part of the world as per gosses.
what might throw a spanner in the calculations is if the 3 to 4 wk period is a period of slower growth rate.
What weight would you expect to reach with an imprint spar

[Shaun Byrne]

Well boys, I should make decision this week, which one to chose :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:!
When I put them out in the field today afternoon, I swung the lure and girl (262 g empty) came very fast, grabed the chick and mantled over it. I touch her feet, she was no agressive, make noise.
Girl (259 empty) went in wrong direction, then came on the lure, took chick No. 2, didn't mantle and made very littel nois :?: :idea: :?: :idea: :!: :idea:
They are still young, but you know that you always take care about some details!!!!
SOOOOOOOOOOO :?: :idea:

Go for number 2 Jastreb.

No 1 is just a greedy bad tempered bitch :evil:

No 2 made a mistake, used her head and finished with finesse :D

[OutFlying]

Jim, by my reckoning, Viktors have increased by approx 30g from 20 to 27 days, to a weight of 259 and 262.
As yours was 250g at 22 days i would reckon you will be in the 270g+ region and although only one instance it may be that our spars are slightly bigger than the one from that part of the world as per gosses.
what might throw a spanner in the calculations is if the 3 to 4 wk period is a period of slower growth rate.
What weight would you expect to reach with an imprint spar

Hello Jim,
I don't think there is a size difference between european spars due to location, Anton's from Belgium seems the biggest but that difference in size can be found in the Uk.

I don't know what weight to expect her to reach, my imprint male gos didn't eat a lot during rearing and penned at a lower weight than his flying weight. Whether the spar does the same I can't say or know. I would think she fly in the 9 oz region.

Yours Jim.

[OutFlying]

weight at 10 am, very small amount of food - 274 grams.

OF.

[Jastreb]

OF when we finnish job we will make comparsion if you want.
If you or anyone else know some scientific magazine where we can publish that, it will be very nice, cause it is also import for my PhD, and benefit of falconry in scientific area.
Offcours, I will put my dates here so anyone can see it :supz: !
H4wka, thanks :D
And someone else, what do you think which bird should I leave :idea: :?:
Cheers Viktor

[OutFlying]

It will be good to compare different techniques, problems encountered, problems cured and quarry available. Thanks Victor for your input.

All the best Jim. OF.

[Sokoly]

Viktor, since we come from similar region I am telling you the bird will go up with it's weight. Try to find the book The imprint accipiter from Mike McDermot. Its very comprehensive and detailed.
In my opinion it's very hard to say which to choose. Both of them may turn out to be very succesful game hawks. Do you plan to fly them on partridges? I used to have such a bird and it was deadly on partriges.

[OutFlying]

Viktor, since we come from similar region I am telling you the bird will go up with it's weight. Try to find the book The imprint accipiter from Mike McDermot. Its very comprehensive and detailed.
In my opinion it's very hard to say which to choose. Both of them may turn out to be very succesful game hawks. Do you plan to fly them on partridges? I used to have such a bird and it was deadly on partriges.

Do you remember how the spars penning weight compared to entering and final hunting weight.

Yours OF.

[Jastreb]

Hello Sokoly!
Where are you exactly from?
I already flew spar on partridge, and you are right, they are deadful for them.
Jim, I remember that my last musket had penning weight at about 230 grams, flying weight 180 grams when I enterd him, and hunting weight on the end of the season was 185-192 grams.
Which onw to choose :idea: :?:
Greedier came to me emediatly three times on the lure from 10 meter, less greedier once when I gave her littel bit more calling!?!
Look at them-littel bitches :twisted: :wink:

[Jastreb]

Bitchieeeees!

[Jastreb]

On the lure!

[Jastreb]

Together!

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
The spar tonight found out it could run at a good speed, at my sisters he decided to flap, take off out the nest bowl and run about the patio. Anklets and tethering now very close.

I like the photographs, 2 spars must be a handful - how's the gos coming along ?

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

Viktor.
For what its worth :rolleyes:
I would choose bird number one M8 :D

[Finnish]

Viktor i'am sure you will choose the wright one for you.

[Sokoly]

Jastreb, I am from Skopje MK. Maybe you should consider the greedier one. Seems like it's smarter or perhaps it was hungrier. Go with the greedier one and forget the size. Few grams more or less will not take the edge out of a real hunting beast. Your birds are really promissing.

[Jastreb]

OF gos is fine I am trying to do littel test with his imprintation and when I finish I will post you abuot that.
You are right tethering is very close,I am just going to finish bars on my mew where one of these cratures will be!
Boys, here is this morning report:
Sokoly I have some relatives in Skopje, my grandmom second husbund was from there-their last name is Mirčevski, what are you flying?
Few minutes ago I woke up and went in my living room where they are. Greedier started to call emediatly and stop when I move out of her sight, less greedier call just few secs and then stop!
I will bring them out now and start with lure lesson.
BB I also have littel more points for No. 1-greedier littel
:twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:
Your comments please!?!

[Sokoly]

Jastreb, at the moment I have two peregrines. I used to fly Spar and goshawks but I decided to try on longwings. I had alot more succes with shorthwings. But I am one of those stupporn kind of guys that do or die.
So succes is close I can smell it. :-)
I use to go to Faculty with Mr. Filip Mircevski - any relative?

[Anton Deja]

Puna and a jonger sister

[Anton Deja]

I will trow her to the game .

[Anton Deja]

I have big hands , and the spar the same .

[Anton Deja]

Hi , I am for sale for 300 € .
Call www.kunstdervalkerij.be

[OutFlying]

anklets fitted today

[Tim Laycock]

How did she find them Jim?
Was she impressed :lol:

[OutFlying]

Not a problem, fitted them while she stood on my hand. A mate used a plier type closure tool - no need to cast her, she hasn't picked at them yet.

Jim.

[Tim Laycock]

when slipping her will you fly her with just almeri or use slitless button jesses Jim?

[OutFlying]

slitless flying jesses

[Tim Laycock]

I have been considdering using old style traditional jesses but made without swivel slits attached to a leash with a built in swivel "Arab style".
What do you reckon Jim?

(Appologies for the photo but I get a new camera tomorrow :D )

And before anyone takes the p1ss, The loop is stiched & glued as well as whipped :lol:
The leash attachment is a makeshift splice.
I can swing by it and I weigh 16 stones!

[OutFlying]

Tim,
It would probably work well, but i prefer to use a system that if the spar becomes lost permantly - at least the jesses will most likely become detached.
I was going to use flying jesses with a small pin ***** hole and then use a snap lock fishing swivel for tethering indoors, If tethered unattended on the garden most likely use a small falconry swivel and mews jesses. You've more experience with the spars than me and don't need my opinion :lol:

All the best Jim.

[OutFlying]

Which make and model of transmitters have people used on their spars, and how where they mounted ?

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

Never used one with a spar but I would rubber band it round the neck

[Musket]

There is a spar that has been flying free (escaped) for two years now (not far from me), and it still has slitless flying jesses attached, she has a mate but i dont know if she has any young . (just an observation thay must be quite safe)

[Jastreb]

Both girl was good today, and less greedier start to become greedier at the evening :idea: :?:
I finished aviary bars and will put mesh wire in front of bars tommorow!
Boys are you going to use tail bell or legg bell, and where are you going to attach transmitter :?:

[Jastreb]

I will put two straight perches from wall to wall with astroturf on-your comments please.
Sorry for blury pic!

[Jastreb]

And finaly MY LADIES :twisted: 8) :twisted: :!:

[OutFlying]

Viktor,
Not sure on the transmitter mounting yet, might try the marshalls micro back pack and micro transmitter. Tail bell.

OF.

[GoneHawking]

Jim, Last year because I couldn't get a marshall micro (nothing supplied to the uk) I had to use an old martin jones merlin transmitter, I have got a marshall micro now, so if I fly her this year I will attach it to her tail.

[Musket]

Viktor, what is the Dimensions of your aviary? length , hight, width ?
are you going to keep the two of them in it ?
it might be a good idea to put some sort of washable sheet on the back wall to aid cleaning (just a thought)

[OutFlying]

Cheers Mark

[Tim Laycock]

Tail bell Viktor.
Possibly twinned with a neck bell (my transmitter is like a house brick so will not be using it :lol: )

[Jastreb]

Aviary is 3,5 meters length - 1,80 width - 2 meters high.
I was thinking about washable sheet, but then I try to wash walls with miniwash and it goes very well.
I am not going to keep the two of them inside, one of them is leaving this weekend.
I didn't mean to attach tail mount for transmitter and bell right now, but OF are you going to use leather for attaching tail bell and transmitter or are you going to use method like Nick Fox did in his video.

[GoneHawking]

Jastreb, Is the that sterling board treated or are you going to paint it with wood preserver?

[Jastreb]

I am going to paint it with wood preserve. I found one on water base, neutral colour and it's 4 pounds for one liter!

[GoneHawking]

Sounds like a good deal :lol:

[Jastreb]

OF are you going to use leather mount for attaching tail bell and transmitter or are you going to use method like Nick Fox did in his video?

[OutFlying]

Sorry Jastreb,
I forgot to answer your post yesterday, not sure what Nick Fox did in his video (I have seen it but can't remember how he did it). I've tail mounted before on the gosses using a small guitar plectrum, with 3 holes horizontally across the top, a thin bewit of leather is then threaded up through the end hole and down the last hole (in the bewit has one hole which lines up the middle hole in the plectrum). The leather bewit at both ends goes round one center deck feather (small amount of glue) and back up through the center hole. The leather left protruding up through the hole is then punched with a small hole for the bell to attach to. Further down the plectrum is 2 vertical holes for the brass tubing to fix with a small tie wrap. This is one method.

The other method I've used is a leather plectrum fixed using tie-wraps only, this works well. If I've the time I post a few pic's to demonstrate the methods of fixing to a couple of straws etc.

Yours OF.

[Sokoly]

Jastreb i would suggest that you put the bell on the leg. Why? Because I have had a situation when My hawk was fighting with partridge and got kicked. The worst thing was that prays leg kicked the tail bell and pulled out that feather. I suggest Tail mount for falcons, and leg bell for accipiters.

[Anton Deja]

First time on the block at 29 days and 290 grams .
check out these super licht jesses .

Anton

[OutFlying]

weight today 288 grams empty, 27 days old.

Anton, do you think there is enough support for the legs with such small / narrow anklets or will you change these once flying ?

OF.

[Jastreb]

Thanks for avice.
Sokoly I had one problem with leg bell on my musket, when he was in tall grass he kept prey very strong and didn't move with his legs, so I didn't hear the bell well.
Any sugestion?
Cheers Viktor

[Jastreb]

OF I will post my hawks weight in the evening.
You have BIG BIRD!

[GoneHawking]

I personally use wider than normal anklets on my spar, I think thier slender legs benifit from the extra support, Jim my anklets are nearly identical to those on your spar.

[Anton Deja]

hi ,

I use these jesses on ovampo spars , cooper hawks , am ... kestrels and on normal sparrowhawks .
Never had anny problems .
The total of the 2 jesses , 2 swivels and the leash is 8 grams .
I think this is a good thing for the hawk .
The swivels stay on the bird while flying .
The jesses are 9 cm long .
These swivels are the same diameter of the spars legs and verry small things .

[Tim Laycock]

I dont mean to spew out judgements, but I would never put an accipiter (Especialy a spar) on a block as it will strech and dammage the flexor tendons :|

[Sokoly]

Jastreb, I just posted my opinion, and my personal experience. It works for me it doesn' necesserily mean it will work for you. Usually accipiters work with their feet when thay catch their pray. That's way I think you will have a good chance of hearing the bell.

[Sokoly]

Nice jesses Anton, but don't fly the bird with the swivel on. It will influence the equilibrium of the bird. The bird will struggle to keep the balance, and not to mention the possibility of the bird getting tangled in the grass or branches. The well being of your bird should be the first thing on your mind.
Good luck.

[Tim Laycock]

The swivels stay on the bird while flying
You'll have someones eye out with that. :lol:

No offence meant Anton :D If it works for you and her, Thats what matters m8

[Anton Deja]

OK I will take the swivels of for flying .

Bay the way
for sale

1 female sparrowhawk 16 days old 300€
3 hen harriers 2005 15 days old 900 € 2 bubo africanus 2005 pair 600€ pair
1 white backed vulture 2004 1500 €

If you want a complete list please send me a E- mail
d.anton@belgacom.net

[SparsTheOne]

your making wish i got one this year now.

jase,

maybe next year.

[Tim Laycock]

Im waiting for mine :wink: :lol:

[Jastreb]

They are 267 grams and 262 grams empty!
I put them in the aviary they took it very nice!

[OutFlying]

I see the wall decorating has already started............ :lol:

[Adam Barrett]

Anton are your jesses made of string with electrical cable sleving???

sorry if i am mistaken.

all look like cracking little birds :)

[Tim Laycock]

I see the wall decorating has already started
Its going to have a modernist feel to it, While creating a fusion between light and space :lol: rpmsl

[Ben C]

Mines got the exact same plants growing in it Jastreb. :) :)

[OutFlying]

All food via the lure

[Tim Laycock]

when are you going to start carriage Jim. Or have you already started to a degree?

[Anton Deja]

About the jesses : si senior .


Asta ?

[OutFlying]

Already pick her up now, but she's not that steady on her feet yet (tail not that long)

[Tim Laycock]

8)

[Jastreb]

BB my birds are more postmodernist oriented with their paintings.
Benc take care about PLANTS :weedman:, if you are flying or going to fly accipiter they can relax you :mrgreen: :mrgreen: !
I have only one spar from today, friend picked his!
I had first flight this afternoon. I put her on the top of my car and swung the lure - 5 meters flight from 1,70 meter high ! :prayer: :supz: :partyman:

[Shaun Byrne]

Which bird did you keep Jastreb?

[Jastreb]

Greedier!
On the end, less greedier start to be much greedier and vocal. friend took her yesterday, and she stop vocalize at his place.
I had today three flights from tree, 2.5 meter high on 15 meterssssssss!
Happy I ammmmmm!
Cheers Viktor

[OutFlying]

Introduced to the bow perch yesterday, no problems - immediately took a perch with one foot up and started to preen. Today shown the bath for the first time and in she went for half an hour having a good splash about. Plumage starting to look good.

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

Good stuff Jim!
How many bars down on the tail?

[Jastreb]

The same question like BB?
Mine has about 2/3 grown tail. I will put up some pics today. I feed her twice a day, one flight from the tree in the morning on one chick, and 2-3 flights on 20 meters in the afternoon. It is 35 celsius whole ***cin day!

[Sokoly]

Jastreb - Cestitam!
Good luck with your new killing machine. :-)
From now on you should give her as much opportunity to kill as possible.
Lot's of baggies dude! Make this bird fly for it's meal.Make her earn it. As the bird progresses give her harder and harder slips.

"Man, sometimes I think I was better with accipiters"

[OutFlying]

Good stuff Jim!
How many bars down on the tail?

Number 3 bar is now visible. Budgie like tame and very very steady, you can hoover round her and she still has a foot up or carries on pruning.

Jim.

[Tim Laycock]

Budgie like tame
:lol: Good stuff!

[Anton Deja]

Hi ,

My spar is flying lose .
265 grams and is looking to AL flying things .
Yesterday she took a mole that was coming out of the ground just next to her , but it was not her taste .
Tomorrow i will tray with a blackbird .



Asta Pronto !

[Finnish]

Jastreb Of anymore pics for us to see. They both sound like there coming on good. Hope it goes well for you both.


Lee

[Jastreb]

Sokoly hvala-thanks, go back on accipiters! :D :D
My falconry friends here is SHE MY IDA -TODAY AFTERNOON!
260 grams, I gave her one chick in the morning and 5-6 flights today afternoon on two chicks!
What do you think, should I skip tommorow her BREAKFAST and go HAWKING in the afternoon! :twisted: :D

[Jastreb]

Her back!

[Jastreb]

Beautiful killing machine! :twisted: :D :twisted:

[OutFlying]

Is she flying strong now Jastreb ?

OF.

[Finnish]

She looks very nice Jastreb.

[Jastreb]

OF she was pumping today for the first time, and turned back on the lure and then she chased it very hard!
What do you think-leave her next few days on the lure or start HAWKING!?!

[GoneHawking]

Jastreb, she looks like a cracking bird, give her a day or so killing the lure and then take her into the field and present her with a easy slip.

[Jastreb]

I will, she will have some chance on sparrows from car window!

[Anton Deja]

Tip :

Don't slip her at sparrows in the beginning .
Give her bigger game in the first month .
So she will learn not to fly away with her prey .

See you .

Anton

[OutFlying]

a few pictures has of today -

[M & J Raptors]

OF is that a Finnish Spar ? nice white feathers in the back and large feet, :shock:

[Finnish]

Of she is very nice.

[Isaac]

What is the flying weight of your Spar? I have what I thought was a female but looking at your weights I'm now wondering. I flew my spar right around 205g last year, its up around 260 for the moult but I wouldn't dare free fly her at this weight! What do you think, at that weight is my bird a male or female? (Either way, she/he is killer on the local pigeon population! :twisted: )

[Tim Laycock]

should I skip tommorow her BREAKFAST and go HAWKING in the afternoon!

Jastreb.

I would give her the smallest breakfast from the lure early on and then in the early evening! :supz: :supz: :twisted: :mrgreen:
:twisted: :twisted: :mrgreen:

Isacc.

Your spar is parent reared isnt she?
This coupled with geography would perhaps account for the size difference, her legs also betray her feminine beauty :D
A musket would weigh a lot less than your spar too.

[Jastreb]

Last ten days were 28 celsius in the morning and 35-40 celsius in the afternoon. Last night was hard raining and temp was around 18 celsius this morning!
WHEN I SWUNG THE LURE THIS MORNING OH BOOOOOOOY!
BB I did it with breakfast just like you said :twisted: :mrgreen: :supz:
OF niceeeee bird, and the big one!!!
Cheers Viktor

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
It is very warm here at the moment, at this weight she is not keen to the lure or take a good sized crop. Once her feathers are full length I will bring her weight down a touch and see how she responds.

OF.

[Jastreb]

OF what do you think, how long should you waiting for that?

[OutFlying]

Not sure Jastreb,
This is my first spar, but would guess another week maximum. I'm in no rush and want to make sure everything goes smoothly. I've used knowledge for the imprint gos and some recent advice off imprint spar flyers to rear her and at the moment is turning out very good. I don't want to rush the final stages and spoil the previous work. I think she is 4 / 5 days younger than yours.

OF.

[Jastreb]

No rush ofcours.
I ask you to make compairson with you. My last spar needed 6 days from that stage to introducing to the game. It was musket.
Jastreb

[Tim Laycock]

This is my first spar, but would guess another week maximum.
I would guess you were spot on Jim :supz:

[OutFlying]

No rush ofcours.
I ask you to make compairson with you. My last spar needed 6 days from that stage to introducing to the game. It was musket.
Jastreb

Jastreb,
I am following your progress as an indication for my next steps, I haven't owned a spar before and everything is new with her - so I follow your emails as an indication of what comes next and when.

yours OF.

[OutFlying]

The spar likes the tv...............

[OutFlying]

The spar likes the bath..........

[Tim Laycock]

Nice Bow Jim. Your own work? :D

[OutFlying]

Nice Bow Jim. Your own work? :D

Yes Tim.

[OutFlying]

couple more

[GoneHawking]

Jim, I can't belive you make the poor bird watch Big brother :D

[GoneHawking]

Jim she's looking like a proper spar now, Nice bow perch aswell, could do with a new one myself, do you sell any??

[OutFlying]

Jim, I can't belive you make the poor bird watch Big brother :D

Mark, How do you think you make them bombproof :lol: . If that doesn't upset her nothing will :shock:

Jim.

[Finnish]

Very nice Jim very good pics there.

[Tim Laycock]

How do you think you make them bombproof
PMSL :lol:

[Finnish]

If she can sit through Big Brother she can do any thing. :lol:

[OutFlying]

caught her voting the other night

[Finnish]

I hope she never voted for Maxwell!!

[OutFlying]

don't know she wouldn't tell me

[Falcon]

RPMSL!

[Jastreb]

Jim is right, we have one Big Brother and one Survivor at the moment-I leaved my spars to watch it, only in that way they can be BOMBPROOF :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Four flights on 30 meters with lure chasing, she has her attitude about the lure :twisted: :twisted: !
Jastreb

[GoshawkRST]

Very nice spars!!! Si senor :D !!!

I have a few questions for you: your spar did not kill enything yet? You say is flying well to the lure, but did not kill anything yet? I am asking because in some days now (some 2 or 3 days), i'l get mine, imprinted and at a age of 15 - 20 days. I wana imprint it by the Recipe. I have a friend that has imprinted one by the recipe, and the bird is just like your birds (the age), flying VERY well to the lure, but ignoring the baggies.... :? ... that's preaty strange, because McDermott is saying in his book that the bird is more interested on Baggies and is got a very poor response to the lure. Well, this is strange! They only feed the sparr on the lure with small quantities of meat, and more reward on the kill. The bird is not striking very well the baggies, and it seems to PLAY with them!!! What do you say???? :?

[GoshawkRST]

Or it's good to fly the sparr hard to the lure, at least 1 week, and then to introduce it to easy baggies, so thet the sparr understand that the baggies are more easy to catch that the lure, and he receive more reward??? What to you say?

[GoneHawking]

From what I remember, Mcdermott was introducing disable baggies from a very early age, as soon as they stood if I remember rightly, maybe someone will correct me, It is a couple of years since I read the book, Don't forget Mike is an american falconer and can produce baggies for his bird legally.

[Sokoly]

Yes, you should give her baggies as early as it can. It's better for the bird it will learn how to use its legs and develop good feet work. It is good preventative against screaming because the bird will understand that she has to kill her own food.
You should buy some coturnix queil, they make good baggies for the begining. Ofcourse I am saying what is best for the bird not what is legal or ilegal. Because the laws of the nature are different than laws that people set. In the wild there parents throw the youngsters dissabled pray so they can learn how to handle it, when they grow up.

[OutFlying]

Very nice spars!!! Si senor :D !!!

I have a few questions for you: your spar did not kill enything yet? You say is flying well to the lure, but did not kill anything yet? I am asking because in some days now (some 2 or 3 days), i'l get mine, imprinted and at a age of 15 - 20 days. I wana imprint it by the Recipe. I have a friend that has imprinted one by the recipe, and the bird is just like your birds (the age), flying VERY well to the lure, but ignoring the baggies.... :? ... that's preaty strange, because McDermott is saying in his book that the bird is more interested on Baggies and is got a very poor response to the lure. Well, this is strange! They only feed the sparr on the lure with small quantities of meat, and more reward on the kill. The bird is not striking very well the baggies, and it seems to PLAY with them!!! What do you say???? :?

Sounds like the spar is too high. Also I don't feel you need to give as many baggies or at such an early age as advised by Mike McDermott. The spar at an early age can hardly stand or have any strengh in its grip - HOW could it kill at 19 / 20 ish days. If you feed off the carcass I'm 100% sure once your spar is on weight it will chase prey whether its killed a baggie or not.

If legal to use baggies they can be a useful aid, but you can train an imprint to a good standard without needing to kill large amounts of baggies during the rearing process.

OF.

[GoneHawking]

I personally never fed baggies and my spar chased most things right from the word go, I did feed on an open cacase at some point but I can't remember the exact age, As Outflying says if they are imprinted and conditioned well then they will just chase.

[GoshawkRST]

OK....that's better :D ! Thanks for your replyes!!! So, if you don't use baggies from that early age, it will not start screaming? Thanks again!

[OutFlying]

Screaming will occur whatever, not during rearing but during the early periods of training before she has hunted successfully for a few weeks.

Will post more later if required.

[OutFlying]

OK....that's better :D ! Thanks for your replyes!!! So, if you don't use baggies from that early age, it will not start screaming? Thanks again!

Forgot to add, if you've read The Imprint Accipiter you'll know even with multiple baggies Mike McDermott still has screaming in his eyasses - get ready for it and make sure you have plenty of time to hunt everyday for the first few weeks after fully feathered.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
Due to work commitments had to delay the evening fed tonight by 2 hours, 10 gram reduction. Very much improved response to lure etc, her body actions indicated she meant business (282 grams).

OF.

[Jastreb]

Man you will see when you for the first time skip one meal ooooooooooooooooooh booooooy, you will see :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: !
My Ida was introduced with strong wind today. She flew 30 meters in the wrong direction, then she turned, returned and grabbed the lure in the air :D :D!

[Tim Laycock]

The metabolism of a spar is truly amazing thing if she is fed in the morning to "keep her lusty" but goes without in the afternoon in the early evening they are usualy ravenous and infinatly more agreeable :D

[Ben C]

Serious question: How long does it take to IMPRINT a Sparrowhawk?

[Tim Laycock]

To finnish the job and create a well rounded individual!
At least four months IMO.

[OutFlying]

Serious question: How long does it take to IMPRINT a Sparrowhawk?

Ben,
Collect at 10 days ish, flies free at 36 days ish. Then you start hunting and after a period of success everything should click into place. By late September most things should be going well ( I hope).

OF.

[Ben C]

The key is the flight, but the prey is what..........rooks, crow, maggies, pigeon, partridge.....etc etc :)

[OutFlying]

not sure yet Ben,

[Tim Laycock]

The key is the flight, but the prey is what..........rooks, crow, maggies, pigeon, partridge.....etc etc

Blackbirds!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Jastreb]

The key is the flight, but the prey is what..........rooks, crow, maggies, pigeon, partridge.....etc etc :)
I don't prefere rooks and crows because you have gos for them, but they will fly at them if you want, and everything other what you said! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: AND BLACK BIRDS! :twisted: :twisted:

[Jastreb]

Well boys,
I put her out of the aviary this morning, and she was 255 grams. We drived on the few places looking for pidgeons, she had interes but not so much.
I put her back in the garden. Before 1 hour I weighd her-246 grams. Back in the car, and we found five pidgeons on one place.
I just open window and she did it :twisted: :D :twisted: :D !
She is full crop now, tommorow is another day........ :D 8) :D 8)

[Jastreb]

She was mantling but withouth agression :D :D 8) 8)

[Adam Barrett]

wicked jestrab! :D

Well done mate looking forward to hearing lots more about this little bird.

also what is the average price for a spar in england at the moment??

I know people say they are like rocing horse droppings to get hold of but i have seen muskets going for 3100 and females for £200.

Is that about right?

[OutFlying]

Adam,
Those prices are correct, just not many people breeding them.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

Well done Jastreb,
I think mine will need to come down some, at 282 grams not much appetite (still warm today) will start a slow reduction ready for mid week.

OF.

ps Good pictures

[Tim Laycock]

Jastreb.
That has made my day! Congratulations my freind :D :supz: :partyman:

Adam.
Females £200-£250. I would pay no more than £50 for a musket!
People used to give them away not so long ago!!!! :(

[Adam Barrett]

is this purley because of their size bb??

What quarry is there for a musket??

Thanks 8)

[Tim Laycock]

Yes Adam.
The Musket is a most fragile creature.A fact that cannot be fully appreciated until you have had one on the fist.
An imprint is a viable proposition but I have never dared to try!
The female presents enough calculations, difficulties and challenges to a competent austringer, I could not be bothered with the musket.

Muskets will take blackbirds with correct management. Similar to the way that a tiercel Goshawk will take cock pheasants(Roosters), convincingly but not with the grace of the female.

PCHay has flown a musket. perhaps he would like to add to this?

[Jastreb]

OF I had luck that temperature was few celsius down because it was hard raining last night!
Thanks BB, by the way my friend has bachelor party tonight, and we will celebrate both !
:drinkers: :drinkers: :partyman: :partyman: :drinkers: :drinkers: :partyman: :partyman: :vom: :vom: :vom: !
Adam I was flying musket last year and I can tell you it is hellowa hard job! If you are going to fly spar, fly female!

[Shaun Byrne]

Nice one Jastreb, thats what its all about mate.

[GoshawkRST]

Nice capture!!! I have one question more: you start to cut his weight like McDermott say, just before hard penning, or no? In the recipe, is telling that when the bird penns, her caracter will change in worst... and if you cut his weight some few grams very day, just before hard penning, the bird will not change... What do you say?

(sorry for so many questions, but I' just curios).

PS - tomorrow I will call to see what's happen with my female sparr, and see if I can get her sooner (in some 2 days). If not, I will get her in some 4 - 7 days, that's for sure!

Best regards and keep up the good work!

[Musket]

Wow that was fantastic Jastreb I am so envious Well done ! I Just love reading your posts , please keep them coming

[Sprout]

I flew a musket a few years ago and have since flown a male gabar goshawk (flew at 78g). Both had to be fed a skinned chick in the morning before flying in the afternoon. Didn't have much success with the Gabar, flew a few small birds never caught anything but deadly on bees and butterflies! The musket was the best spar I've ever flown, used to wait on over head whilst I kicked the hell out of bushes trying to flush. Took on long slips but for some reason only ever caught yellow hammers. Never purposely slipped on a yellowhammer and never really noticed them around until I flew the musket, he caught about 20 in his first season.

[Jastreb]

GRST I cut her weight normaly, just skip breakfast and you have very keen bird in the afternoon.
I had two slips few minutes ago on the sparrows. She was not succsesful but she was on the 20 meter tree for the first time, and she emediatly came back on the lure :D :D 8) 8)

[OutFlying]

Nice capture!!! I have one question more: you start to cut his weight like McDermott say, just before hard penning, or no? In the recipe, is telling that when the bird penns, her caracter will change in worst... and if you cut his weight some few grams very day, just before hard penning, the bird will not change... What do you say?

(sorry for so many questions, but I' just curios).

PS - tomorrow I will call to see what's happen with my female sparr, and see if I can get her sooner (in some 2 days). If not, I will get her in some 4 - 7 days, that's for sure!

Best regards and keep up the good work!


At this time the blood out of feathers is being reabsorbed into the hawks body, all hawks go through a funny time in this period - when I imprinted the gos a small reduction in weight negated this problem.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
Are you using a transmitter on the spar ?

OF.

[Jastreb]

I am waiting three weeks transmiter from Martin Jones. I was speaking yesterday with Jim Chick who works with Martin and he told me that I will have my transmitter this week. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[M & J Raptors]

I am waiting three weeks transmiter from Martin Jones. I was speaking yesterday with Jim Chick who works with Martin and he told me that I will have my transmitter this week. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Hi Jastreb

Martin Jones,

Does he produce a small Transmitter for a spar ?


BC

[GoneHawking]

Jim chick designs and makes the telemetry for Martin Jones, jim is an ex telecoms engineer, I have one of his micro transmitters, it is good, with a decent range, I have also now got the marshall micro with the tap on and off option aswell as low battery indicator, excellent transmitter with a brilliant range.

[Finnish]

How much does he charge for these transmitter's??

[Tim Laycock]

http://www.falconryelectronics.co.uk/

Good stuff!

Eddie did a talk the other month at an NEFC meeting. His gear was very impressive.
He had some that were turned on and off by waving a magnet over them.
Buying one of his transmitter from him is like buying a new car!
You get an options list :shock: :D

[Finnish]

waving a magnet over them.

I think you will find that Marshall were first to bring out the magnet transmitter. And they have one that is small to suit a spar.

[Sprout]

How do the falconry electronics transmitters rate against the marshall?

[Tim Laycock]

I think you will find that Marshall were first to bring out the magnet transmitter. And they have one that is small to suit a spar.

:shock: I never for one moment suggested otherwise!
What I was saying was that you could have all manner of options :|

[Jastreb]

Finissh it is 75 pounds for spar transmitter.

[OutFlying]

waving a magnet over them.

I think you will find that Marshall were first to bring out the magnet transmitter. And they have one that is small to suit a spar.

They have been an option on the Merlin transmitters long before Marshall's.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

How do the falconry electronics transmitters rate against the marshall?

Rate - in price, range, size, battery duration ?

The marshalls micro has far greater range than the merlin transmitter (falconry electronics) - so can be used on a longwing as well as the spar. Duration is about the same. Price, the Marshall's is about £40 dearer. Size, the micro is 3.5 grams with battery, merlin 4ish grams. Finally the merlin transmitter is leg mount only.

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

Finally the merlin transmitter is leg mount only.

Modify it! :mrgreen: (Tight git!! :oops: :lol:)

[OutFlying]

BB,
The marshall micro tx is a flater sleaker profile more suited to the tailmount, very flat to the feathers when fitted (ordered mine today). The merlin transmitter is a fatter rounder shape with a higher profile, it is designed to be leg mount only.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Flown on creance today, came 30 foot slowly in the morning at 272 grams. Tried again this evening at 268 grams, instant to the lure. When feeding on the lure tonight a female spar flew overhead with a small bird in its grip.
Will try again tomorrow, and most likely flown free the day after. Lets hope the weather stays dry for the next few days to enter her.

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

BB,
The marshall micro tx is a flater sleaker profile more suited to the tailmount, very flat to the feathers when fitted (ordered mine today). The merlin transmitter is a fatter rounder shape with a higher profile, it is designed to be leg mount only.
What about neck mounting it?
Flown on creance today, came 30 foot slowly in the morning at 272 grams. Tried again this evening at 268 grams, instant to the lure. When feeding on the lure tonight a female spar flew overhead with a small bird in its grip.
Will try again tomorrow, and most likely flown free the day after. Lets hope the weather stays dry for the next few days to enter her.

8)

[OutFlying]

Yes neck mounting is possible with the merlin transmitter, it has a bewit strap. the marshall tail mount micro doesn't have a bewit strap anymore.

OF.

[Jastreb]

BOYS LITTEL STORY FOR YOU:
I was flying Ida at starlings yesterday. She was good, and suddenly there appeard two big crows :evil: :evil: ! She saw them for the first time in her life!
They started to attack her very hard, and she flew into deep forest! She tried 4 times to return back on the lure, but crows just didn't leave her alone. I let her out whole night in really deep forest, 5 km from place where we are usualy flying.
When I went there this morning and whistle, she almoust knock me out. She flew only few inches from my head. Screaming like mad - WHERE THE ***C WERE YOU WHOLE DAMN NIGHT!
She is in the aviary now with full crop :D :twisted: :mrgreen: 8)
From now on, my gos will have full claws of job with crows, rooks, magpies etc. :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:
CHEERS JASTREB

[Tim Laycock]

From now on, my gos will have full claws of job with crows, rooks, magpies etc.
I hate b4stard Crows!!! You know it makes sense Jastreb :wink:

[Jastreb]

Cheers mate!

[GoshawkRST]

Hello everybody. I have a few questions for you.

I have a friend that imprinted an sparrowhawk female, and now the bird is flying VERY Well , it's hard penned for about 1 or 2 weeks. Is flying extreamly well to the lure, chatching it very agresive, but doesnt' catch any wild prey!!! Is chasing blackbirds and other birds, but always when you think he almost catch it, she let the pursuit and land in a tree. Well, they always let her go to birds that feed on the ground, about some 5 -10 metters far, but the sparr never wana catch one. Just chasing them and then let them go... Her flying weight, 251 grams, in this flying weight she's flying to the lure and screamming very mucho, and is very agresive with the lure. She is not agresive toward peoples, (rise by the recipe), and the only bad habbits are those two: screaming and chasing birds withouth trying to catch.

What do you say??? I have seen that you sparr already caught an pigeon.... and they'r bird did not wana catch anything... I will try to put some pics and clips of this bird.

What could they do to make it catch something?

[GoshawkRST]

Some pics of the sparr...

[GoshawkRST]

one more...

[GoshawkRST]

And 2 videos of that sparr, flying to the lure...

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Nice pictures, couldn't see the videos anywhere though....

If the bird is chasing and pulling off at the last minute, it sounds as though her weight may be just slightly over, maybe even just a few grams.....

I have a challenging season ahead........mine turned out to be a musket!

Regards,
LLL.

[Tim Laycock]

Good stuff M8 :D

[Finnish]

Love the pics there.

[Jastreb]

Already happend to me with one spar before. Put her under 251 g, she will probably do the job.
And this is also her's teenage period, she wants to play, nois and agression on the lure are allright.
If you can legaly car hawking try with that!
Cheers Jastreb

[GoshawkRST]

Well, how can I put the videos??? One is 700 kb, and the other, 1 mb.
How can I put them on the site??? That birds is awesome!

[GoneHawking]

Lovely pics mate, love to see the videos, I think like Jastreb says they are still in the teenage period, mine did a fair bit of happy flying (sometimes really high), you could see she was just playing around in the hot weather, maybe it was the warm days that made her less keen to do the business and maybe she thought it was still my obligation to provide the food in the early days, once she killed for herself though she changed dramatically, and she chased everything with great enthusiasm. Hope this all makes sense.

[OutFlying]

Try flying her at near dusk time, and make the first kills easy don't expect too much too soon.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
The spar will be hunted free for the first time tomorrow. Work and weather have prevented it happening this week. Her speed to the lure is impressive, so looking forward to see her behind some wild quarry.

OF.

[Adam Barrett]

i have just found out first hand about the courage and balls that these little spars have.

i was flying my female harris along a wooded edge of the golf corse directly behind our house when she was attacked several times by a musket obviously protecting his young????

he stooped at her three times in all and on his last stoop actually hit her and sat a few branches above her giving me a clear view of him chanting at her.

also found o less than five plucking postsin that area but have been unable to locate the nest or the female spar? :roll:

Good luck tommorow jim mate-im sure the girl will do you proud 8)

[OutFlying]

Adam,
I have had my gos pinned flat to the floor by a stooping kestral and saw a finnish female gos well and truely put in its place by a wild tiercal peregine, she had to be picked up of the floor she wouldn't move.

Jim.

[Adam Barrett]

Jim,
i was simply amazed at the courage of these little birds, untill now i have never seen one in the flesh but to see that little musket standing pround with a full crop defending its young against a hawk 5-6 times its own size was amazing.

within the next few years i would love to aspire to fly a spar-the little pocket roket :twisted:

[Tim Laycock]

Good luck Jim! 8)

[Gaz]

Glad its going allright Jim,entering soon :?:

[OutFlying]

Hopefully in the next couple of hours, just waiting for her to come into condition.

Jim.

ps Not forgot about the tail sheaths, original seamster died - now being sewn by someone else.

[Ben C]

Cmon little spar :) :).....if its as clear and warm where you are, you should get some nice fat pigeons feeling tired in the heat. If thats what your after

[Jastreb]

Good hawking Jim!
I was hawking before half hour.
1 quail and 1 sparrow :wink: 8) !
Man you will enjoy!
Cheers Jastreb

[Tim Laycock]

I was hawking before half hour.
1 quail and 1 sparrow !
Man you will enjoy!

:supz: 8)

[OutFlying]

Too hot today 29c, the spar was panting in the field- decided to cancel the day. Will try again first thing tomorrow, as the forecast is for hot weather again.

OF

[Tim Laycock]

Wise move Jim :wink:

"Oh to be walking abroad at dawn with the finest hawk for the bush" :supz: 8)

[OutFlying]

pics from today, the next generation (hay fever kicking in) of falconer...

[OutFlying]

BB,
I would have tried late this evening but it's my father's surprise party function tonight - wouldn't have gone down well with the family and friends. The morning should be a better option - as Jack Merlin stated in one of his books "The better the day, the better the deed" or something similar :wink: .

OF.

[Ben C]

I hope you realise how much EVERYONE HATES YOU!!!

That is one AMAZING little hawk........you should be suitably proud mate. I will however be needing those socks in the VERY distant future. :)

Like the new article for the Euro site as well, some good pics there.

[Jastreb]

Maaaaaan thats a piece of bird!
Well done, briliant feather condition!
I love your hawking ground!
Cheeeeers mate
Viktor

[Adam Barrett]

great pics mate
Where abouts wereyou hawking?

Has anyone got any pics of a musket on the fist? just to see the size differance?
thanks

[Tim Laycock]

The morning should be a better option - as Jack Merlin stated in one of his books "The better the day, the better the deed" or something similar
:D
The morning will be the better option for sure.
She will have far more spark at daybreak than in the evening as the waking countryside will quicken her 8)

Best of british to ya m8 :mrgreen: :D

[Finnish]

Good luck for tomorrow Jim. Hope she does well.

[Gaz]

:finga: Cheers Jim,..Gos be here soon :mrgreen:

[GoshawkRST]

Hello again! Nice fotos (very nice birds!!!!). I'll get mine femalle, this week!!! :D

I have 2 important questions, if someone can answer, I could say I have no questions more! (i have read McDermott's book -imprint accipiter and the recipe, 9 times now, in just 2 monts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: ) - i gues i'm a little bit nerdy :D ).

1. How can you know when the sparr is hard penn???
2. What do you do, during the molt?????????????????????? McDermott is not telling NOTHING in his book!!! What can I do not to create bad habbits, with my sparr, during the molt??? (i will imprint her by the recipe!).

I'll be bak in 2 minutes, to put some fotos of one of my friend's sparr!

Best regards!

[GoshawkRST]

Here are the fotos I promise.... hope you enjoy! :D

[GoshawkRST]

2 more....

Best regards from Spain!

[Jastreb]

Hard penned-no bars on the tail, withouth fluffy feathers.
During the molt you can feed her on the glove or the lure, or you can give her food on the post.
If you don't manning her during the molt she will be littel bit wilde in the beginning, but you will manage with that when you reduce her weight.
Another thing you will be involved with imprint spar is FALSE FLYING WEIGHT. When you enter her she will fly at everything, but after week or two she will refuse long flights, but she will be very responsiv on the lure.
That just happen to me today. She was briliant yesterday at 243 grams, but today she was not very keen for long flights. But she was briliant on the lure and waiting on. I just didn't full her crop, I will try late in the evening, and if she will be the same we will try tomorow. It is very easy to manage with that, just must know the right moment.
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
Flew her this morning at 264 grams, too high for entering. At this weight responsive to lure but with the hot weather even that response is slow at present. Two good recalls out of tall trees and fed up 3/4 daily ration on the lure. Will try again in the morning at slightly reduced weight.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Hello again! Nice fotos (very nice birds!!!!). I'll get mine femalle, this week!!! :D

I have 2 important questions, if someone can answer, I could say I have no questions more! (i have read McDermott's book -imprint accipiter and the recipe, 9 times now, in just 2 monts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: ) - i gues i'm a little bit nerdy :D ).

1. How can you know when the sparr is hard penn???
2. What do you do, during the molt?????????????????????? McDermott is not telling NOTHING in his book!!! What can I do not to create bad habbits, with my sparr, during the molt??? (i will imprint her by the recipe!).

I'll be bak in 2 minutes, to put some fotos of one of my friend's sparr!

Best regards!

A general rule for hard penning is 2 weeks after the feathers are fully grown. You will be able to tell by looking at the base of the tail feathers, if they are dark then they are still in blood.

OF.

[Jastreb]

Well done Jim. Hot weather is not faconers friend, I can't wait season and cold mornings!
I did try again in the afternoon and she was briliant on the lure and not to keen for long chase.
I gave her 4 DoCs legs and waiting tomorow for replay :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: !
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

Tried her this morning at 6 am (still bloody hot), poor response at 258 grams. This weather is the worst, don't won't to try and take her too low to compensate for the weather and introduce problems but need to get her entered. trying again early tomorrow.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
How sharp is the breast bone on your spar at 243 grams ?

OF.

[Jastreb]

Mate not too sharp!
I just want to post you about today!
Like you know I leave her at 4 DoCs legs yesterday, then I came from work and it was bloody rain whole ***cing day.
I was flying her before hour an a half at 20h30min-***cing rain finaly stop.
She was 240 grams, :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:, man I will try to make pic of her in that stage-FULL YARAK.
She wants to fly at snails, frogs and everything what moves!
Do you keep yours free in the aviary or on the perch, my is free, she is fit like hell, and she flys at the lure like hellowa good longwing!
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
I think mine as a bit more to come off, well rounded at present weight without much interest in wildlife YET. She is still tethered at the moment and kept indoors in the living room till Wednesday.

Last week in cooler temps - she was very keen to the lure (272 grams), full speed, first call and a quick wing over to kill the lure but since the temperature rose to 29 c her response has deteriorated. I know she must have gotten use to the weight reduction but combined with the temperature is proving a slower process. No panic I will keep slowly reducing and hope for the weather to become cooler.

OF.

[Finnish]

Sounds like you doing a good job Jim keep up the good work.

[GoshawkRST]

Hello everybody, me again :) ...

I was atracted by this frase "...How sharp is the breast bone on your spar at 243 grams... " . The sparr I'm talking about, the one in the fotos right up here, has the same problem. The falconer telled me that the sparr doen not catch anything, and is flying slowly. I tell him to cut the weight a little bit more (just 2 grams), and little by little, the sparr now is flying with 248 grams (from 250), but still not catch anything! Well, that falconer telled me that he does not want to cut the weight again, because the breast bone is little sharp (like you say).

Well, now I see that he is right in the same situation like you are, there is a hot climate where he lives, and this is the reason why the sparr is flying lazy... I will tell him right now to try in the afternoon, to see if there are some changes.

[OutFlying]

Hello everybody, me again :) ...

I was atracted by this frase "...How sharp is the breast bone on your spar at 243 grams... " . The sparr I'm talking about, the one in the fotos right up here, has the same problem. The falconer telled me that the sparr doen not catch anything, and is flying slowly. I tell him to cut the weight a little bit more (just 2 grams), and little by little, the sparr now is flying with 248 grams (from 250), but still not catch anything! Well, that falconer telled me that he does not want to cut the weight again, because the breast bone is little sharp (like you say).

Well, now I see that he is right in the same situation like you are, there is a hot climate where he lives, and this is the reason why the sparr is flying lazy... I will tell him right now to try in the afternoon, to see if there are some changes.

My spar is still over weight, how is the response to the lure for your friends spar ? Is she roused and in yarrak in the field ? If she is to be flown in a hot climate country then she will need to be flown sharper than here in the UK.

OF.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Well, my musket :cry: is weighing in at a monstrous 160g.... :cry:

I still have a few weeks to go until we'll be flying........

Gutted,
LLL.

[Tim Laycock]

:shock: Be carefull the monster doesnt eat you LLL :lol: 8)

You nutters that fly muskets have far too much time on your hands 8)

[Jastreb]

Jim you don't need to worry, and you have something what I didn't have, you keep your spar still in the house. Believe me you will prevent screaming very much, mine is screaming, not always, but when she hears me or my car.
Don't worry mate you are doing job wery well, and if she will not bee keen, you will skip one whole day with food, and it will be allright.
Believe me I did that with my last, and from that day everything goes well. Nothing can happen to her if you skip one whole day with food, specialy if is 29C.
Keep your good work!
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
Better morning today (still hot) - 252 grams and she looked a lot keener. Chased a swallow briefly from a tree top, and returned to lure over good distances better, I only recall twice in a session - first small offering, second remainder of daily ration. No real hunger and took time to feed on the lure. Still more to come off.

OF.

[Jastreb]

Nice mate, I told you. And in this moment flying her on that weight will much more build her muscles!
Cheers jastreb

[Tim Laycock]

in this moment flying her on that weight will much more build her muscles!

Too right m8!. Right little powerhouse :supz:

[Matt]

come on out flying get her killing my blood lust is at boiling point !!!!

are you gona try her at crows or just hedge row stuff . mabe even partradge ?
im sure you will already of coverd this some where else on this thresd its just that there is only 24 hours to each day and im a very slow reader .!!!!

any way all thje best with her and i look forward to congratulating you on you enevitable succes .
all the best matt

[Jastreb]

It was fu***ng rain again, whole fu***ng day, but I went out!
She was 239 grams, she tried at ducks but thats to big for month and a half old spar, but I like her effort!
Then I saw about 200 starlings in front of me, some 300 meters, and I fanaticly started to sneak at them. BUT, I forgot lots of rain and fell into one hole full of water till my belt :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: , she missed the slip and rain started harder! Boy, I was ****ed, I was yelling, screaming mada faka dem falkonry!
And finaly, I can't wait tomorow to try again :supz: :supz: :supz: :supz:!
Cheers Jastreb

[Tim Laycock]

Have patience Jastreb.
You know it will make you appreciate the good stuff more m8 :D

[Finnish]

Hope the weather is better for you tomorrow Jastreb.

[Sprout]

By the way, it's been nice and sunny here! :wink:

[Finnish]

All Day :lol:

[Tim Laycock]

It is so sunny it is almost *****! :lol:

[Gaz]

Come on Viktor..and you Jim :twisted: :!: ...LETS SEE SOME DEATH AND DESTRUCTION... :finga: :mrgreen: :finga: :twisted:

[OutFlying]

Calm down Gaz, go rent a DVD............ :lol: When she's ready and catches something worthy of a photograph, then it will appear here if it's not too gruesome :wink:

Jim.

[Tim Laycock]

...LETS SEE SOME DEATH AND DESTRUCTION...

The [glow=red:57943d109f]blood lust[/glow:57943d109f] is cresting!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Anton Deja]

:cry: Mi second spar was kilt by a rat today .

[Tim Laycock]

:cry: :evil: What a kick in the ******** Anton!
Had you slipped her at it or did it get into your mews?

[Anton Deja]

slipped her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SparsTheOne]

sorry to here that m8,but what were you doing flying at rats with a spar,or did you slip at a bird and then it hit the rat instead.

jase.

[Tim Laycock]

Spars. Not for rats!!!

Thats a poor do m8 Im sorry for you! :(

[Jastreb]

Yo Gaz, you know that I will have some littel present for you, it is still ***cing rain whole ***cing day, I just had 5 minutes of waiting on, but rain ruin everything!
Cheers Jastreb

[Gaz]

:finga: :mrgreen:

[OutFlying]

Now the weather has cooled a bit, the spar was VERY keen today. Maybe to keen, with no beaters or driver today struggled to get a slip but lure and fist recalls at over 100 yards from tall trees was first class. Weight had crept up a bit (fed off fresh pigeons last 2 days) to 262 grams but at this weight at this temperature is keen. Looking forward to cooler weather and the weekend.

[Finnish]

Hey Jim got any more pics of her.

[OutFlying]

here you are Lee,

[Finnish]

She looks like a little star mate.

[Tim Laycock]

Stunning :D

[Jastreb]

I am in :heart: ,I hope my spar will not read this!
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

I won't tell if you don't :wink:

[Jastreb]

Thanks mate :D !

[GoshawkRST]

Hello everybody!!!!!!!! I am HAPPY!!! Finaly, I received my sparr!

Well, it's an imprinted female, withouth bad habbits, just doesnt like the hood, so i don't use the hood. Well, the bird is not moving on her perch, not screaming...nothing. It's a little bit scared (but not much), because of the change - it came from England, so it's preaty scared. Now it's better.
Is 50 days old today.

The only...bad thing, is that the bird is a small female - only 234 grams and some 250 FULL crop. :( . Well, i hope it's a good weight, and i hope it will be able to catch pigeons and magpies. What do yuo think about her weight?

Is eating on the fist a few tidbits, and also I feed her on the lure some more, but is not eating much, i thing because of the wheader outside (some 40 g...very hot!).
Here are some fotos with her! I am the hapiest man in the world!!! :D

[GoshawkRST]

What the.... ??? where are the fotos??? Let's see again...

[GoshawkRST]

Blody hell.... why I am not able to put fotos???

[OutFlying]

GoshawkRST,

Are you following the same practices as the person who imprinted the spar ? ie feeding off the fist etc. Also it's the size of heart not the size of the spar which will decide if she takes magpies and pigeons.

OF.

[Jastreb]

[quote="OutFlying"]GoshawkRST,

Also it's the size of heart not the size of the spar which will decide if she takes magpies and pigeons.

OF.

[GoshawkRST]

Outflying - i don't know and it's imposible to know. I have buy it from a breeder, but he did not imprint her, but imported from England. SO, when i asked him about this, he only telled me thet "is imprinted", so, he not know....

The bird is not a screamer, is not bating on the perch... nothing! It's like a stone! Wery cool bird! I have tried to feed her on the fist, but i could see that is not acoustomate with that, and she learn (hard... :) ) to eat on the fist. NOw, i want to make her eat on the lure, to avoid hand asociation. On the lure is eating only if I put it right next to her feets, and when I call her, she NOT MOVE! I have call her to the lure from only 20 centimetres, but no move.

Her veight now, 229 grams (still don't move!). I have feed her this morning on the lure, and I will continue with that to asociate the lure with food.

Well, if you have some advices, i apreciate!!!! :) ! Any help is good!

PS - she caught the lure by the head yesterday, and she got very strong feets!!!!!!
PS2 - you can see the fotos or not???

[OutFlying]

No photographs. if the pic's are too big to post - Using Windows XP, email the photographs to yourself and select make pictures smaller option. Save the email attachment - now the photographs will be small enough to post to the forum.

[GoshawkRST]

Hello. I will try to make them smaller.
I have looket into her documents, and there is saying that she was "creche raised"..... what is that?????????

The bird is eating on the lure, but not catch the lure with her feets, only with her beek. Also, i have tried to call her from only 20 centimeters, but is not comming! Strange....
Well, i am thinking to let her eat more on the lure, maybe she will asociate it with the meat??? Any ideas??? Is very shy on the lure, and only eats if y put the lure on her feets....

[Tim Laycock]

What kind of meat are you using on the lure?

[OutFlying]

Hello. I will try to make them smaller.
I have looket into her documents, and there is saying that she was "creche raised"..... what is that?????????

The bird is eating on the lure, but not catch the lure with her feets, only with her beek. Also, i have tried to call her from only 20 centimeters, but is not comming! Strange....
Well, i am thinking to let her eat more on the lure, maybe she will asociate it with the meat??? Any ideas??? Is very shy on the lure, and only eats if y put the lure on her feets....


Creche reared - means she was raised without her parents in the company of other eyass spars with human presence, food supplied from breeder. Does she eat her daily ration in one go or does she leave some ?

OF.

[GoshawkRST]

BlackBird - i use pigeon meat on the lure (legs with the broken bones, so the bird is eating the whole leg). Also pigeon heart.

OutFlying - so, that explain everything...that's why she is not a screamear... that's why is so serious and is not playing like an imprint... She's got a temperement like a kestrel! I like it very much!

NOw i have other questions - if she is breed like that, with other sparrs, that means she is not like an imprint...no? I wana say - if you call her to the fist, she will have bad habbits like the imprint sparrowhawks or no? Or it;s better to follow my will - to call her only to the lure to avoid bad habits... what do you think ???

As for the meat - i never let her eat as much as she can, because here are 40 degreas and i fear about the sour crop !!! I have always let her eat only what i gave her. Exemple - today i have tryed to call her to lure, just a few steps. The sparr got 229 grams, and i fed her to 240 grams. With 229 grams, she is moving SLOWLY, and "caught" the lure with the beek, from only 20 cm distance!!! :cry: I let her eat the meat...
I don't understand what's with that poor response to lure, it seems that is not interest in eating, yet is very SHARP !!!!!!!

[Tim Laycock]

Your creche reared spar is probably best trained as a parent reared in my opinion.

[Adam Barrett]

would these spars still breed naturally??

Will imprint spars breed naturally like imprint barn owls and stuff?

sorry if this is a stupid question
:roll:

[Tim Laycock]

would these spars still breed naturally??
Probably?
Will imprint spars breed naturally like imprint barn owls and stuff? very unlikley!

[OutFlying]

I think BB, that imprint spars will breed naturally.

OF.

[Ben C]

Creche reared Spar???? Who does that in the UK?

[OutFlying]

Creche reared Spar???? Who does that in the UK?

Many breeders do Ben, Andy Peel (bell maker) for one.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Here Ben,

2005 Sparrowhawks, imprints, crèche and parent reared, fed on quality diet, ready now, females £250, males £150, all with A10's. Also 2004 female social imprint £250. Tel 01613 718541 or 07749 441669 (Manchester) (050910224).

[Ben C]

Interesting.........in your experience have you ever met anyone who has made the leap from a Harris to a Spar successfully? I say this in terms of a LONG DISTANCE PLAN, between 5 and 7 years.

I am looking for a fast off the fist pursuit hawk or falcon at maggies, pigeon or crows. And I am unable to have a dog, so that cuts off a lot of choices. But a creche reared spar sounds promising (with help of course).

(don't worry I wont hi-jack the thread after this post mate) :)

[Adam Barrett]

So what are the benifits of these creche reared birds over imprints and PR?

I would imagine the goal to be a totally relaxed bird with non of the bad traits associated with imprints such the screaming and mantling.
But does it really work ourt like that??

[OutFlying]

BenC,
A friend of mine went from a female harris, to a spar and a merlin. Not a problem if your methods are solid. Any slackness in handling will be soon exposed.

OF.

[Ben C]

Just one more: Has he got a email address and would he be prepared to correspond with me at some point.

Cheers :)

[OutFlying]

So what are the benifits of these creche reared birds over imprints and PR?

I would imagine the goal to be a totally relaxed bird with non of the bad traits associated with imprints such the screaming and mantling.
But does it really work ourt like that??

Adam,
Screaming is not permanent, only present till the hawk is catching regularly and then it works out where it food really comes from. Imprints also have benefits - like returning to look for you without any prompting at top weight.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

Just one more: Has he got a email address and would he be prepared to correspond with me at some point.

Cheers :)

What do you want to know Ben ?

[Ben C]

Sorry I didn't think to ask you! Doh!.

Whats the leap like? How do they behave differently? What are the mannerisms to look for? What are the less obvious pitfalls? How hard is it compared to a Harris? Does the Harris get side lined inadvertantly? What is the daily grind like? Is it possible to alternate between the Harris and Spar, i.e one day on one day off?
Cheers OF

[GoshawkRST]

Well, it seems that is so tame, that nothing scare her! I walk into the town (FULL OF PEOPLES) with the sparr on the fist hood - less, and the bird is not bating!!!!!!!!!!!! I think she's got this from the imprints. And she is very very serious bird, not playing around etc... Today, I was amazed: blody hell what look she got on her face when saw a pack of big pigons!!! She bated so hard to get there, that I was obligated to go from that place! I LOVE THIS SPARR!!! :twisted:

Tha only problem, is still the lure: she is not interestet, and she already eat a few times on the lure! Her weight 229 grams, and is very sarp (almost "V", but ofcorse not quite a "V", but you can feel very vell the bone... :( ).
And the questions still remain the same: it;s better if I introduce the fist, or the lure like McDermott say?

[OutFlying]

Sorry I didn't think to ask you! Doh!.

Whats the leap like? How do they behave differently? What are the mannerisms to look for? What are the less obvious pitfalls? How hard is it compared to a Harris? Does the Harris get side lined inadvertantly? What is the daily grind like? Is it possible to alternate between the Harris and Spar, i.e one day on one day off?
Cheers OF

Ben,
I always found that working full time only allows time to make one good hawk, anymore and you end up with 2 or more mediocre hawks. If your going to do the hawk justice and want the top draw performance from it - only fly one.

The trouble with a harris hawk is that anyone can fly one but only a few people ever get the best out of one. As I said earlier if your methods are good and can control weight accurately - you can fly most hawks easily, maybe needing a little advice specific to that hawk only. My friend went from a female harris to an imprint spar / imprint merlin with no problems. The spar wasn't the best performing spar ever but the merlin was something else.

Jim.

[Ben C]

This is the problem.......in my heart of hearts its one hawk one man......

However my day ends at 2.40 pm and I get a tonne of holidays, but I am still not convincing myself.

[OutFlying]

This is the problem.......in my heart of hearts its one hawk one man......

However my day ends at 2.40 pm and I get a tonne of holidays, but I am still not convincing myself.

Still not enough time, in winter I try to finish flying one hour before dark - to allow searching time if a long flight happens etc. It is dark by 4 pm mid winter and you wouldn't have time to fly 2 hawks to any standard. If you happy with what you've got why change ? Go out with a few other people flying different hawks and see if its what you want. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.......... :wink:

Jim.

[OutFlying]

Well, it seems that is so tame, that nothing scare her! I walk into the town (FULL OF PEOPLES) with the sparr on the fist hood - less, and the bird is not bating!!!!!!!!!!!! I think she's got this from the imprints. And she is very very serious bird, not playing around etc... Today, I was amazed: blody hell what look she got on her face when saw a pack of big pigons!!! She bated so hard to get there, that I was obligated to go from that place! I LOVE THIS SPARR!!! :twisted:

Tha only problem, is still the lure: she is not interestet, and she already eat a few times on the lure! Her weight 229 grams, and is very sarp (almost "V", but ofcorse not quite a "V", but you can feel very vell the bone... :( ).
And the questions still remain the same: it;s better if I introduce the fist, or the lure like McDermott say?

I would doubt the spar has even seen a lure before and I would be willing to bet it hasn't been recalled to either the fist or lure. Start by calling her to a chick on the fist ( I suspect she would have seen plenty of these already) from close range and increase distance daily. Just because its tame doesn't mean its trained or on correct weight.

OF.

[Ben C]

Yep............................thats why I have still not convinced myself :)

Thanks OF

[GoshawkRST]

I am afraid that the fist will make bad habits. What do you say about introducing her to the lure? For exemple, today she made some 40 cm to the lure, walking slowly and not interested. but when caught it with the beek, i let her eat her reward, and "call" her again. Again some 40 cm walking slowly. That's the progres today.... :cry:

[OutFlying]

Why will the fist introduce bad habits ? it no use applying McDermotts methods on a 50 day old creche reared spar - you are not dealing with a social imprint. As i said earlier does she eat her full daily ration in one go without pausing ? She sounds over weight to me.
Have you read A Hawk for the Bush ?
OF.

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
Further weight reduction required with my female, 252 grams today - very keen to kill pigeons at this weight but reluctant to take on the wild stuff.

OF.

ps The pigeon is already freshly killed before the spar see's it

[Jastreb]

Good job mate, temperatures are horible, this is pain in the arse not falconry. Few days of hard rain than 35 celsius.
Cheers Jastreb

[Ben C]

you boys are clever......just spoken to my mentor.....tricksy stuff fellas, keep it up. :)

[OutFlying]

Ben,
If it was easy everyone would be doing it :wink:

Jim.

[Ben C]

OF, please don't think I ever thought it was easy mate. :)

A challenge, yes.....but Jay told me some complex problems beyond my scope and grasp.

It's at this point falconry may move from craft to art (we shall see), and I should probably eat your socks.............but then again you wouldn't want that eh mate :) :)

[OutFlying]

No, I've only the one good pair...........................

[Ben C]

I'll buy you a pair soon monkey man! :)

[OutFlying]

8)

[Matt]

hello fellas im off in the morning to collect a 10 day old spar from manchester iv been in contact with the guy for a week or so . im not imprinting it to fly just breed .(hopefully with me through ai using finnish gos seamen ) please dont bombard me with opinions on this hybred they have all been expresed before its somthing me and a friend have talked about doing for a wile and are now in the position to try.
i might pick up somthing to fly wile im there aswell as he has birds of differant ages .
he also has a good last years imprint that is a very agressive hunter taking many magpies doves morehen and the like last year . if i had the money i would by her my self.
all the best matt

[Tim Laycock]

:shock: I think BB, that imprint spars will breed naturally
Never heard of it before m8. perhaps I stand corrected! 8)

I am afraid that the fist will make bad habits.
I would get her coming to the fist. She will soon know from this what she can achieve with her feet! then if you are intent on using the lure you can reintroduce it but this will probably not be required.

Have you read A Hawk for the Bush ?
If you have not then you realy should! Its like a bible except its actualy full of relevant stuff 8) :D

[GoshawkRST]

Hello and lots of thanks.
Well, i guess I never sayd beforne what i like on this forum? That peoples answer to the questions very fast!!! THANKYOU !

NO, i did not read the hawk for the bush, only the imprint accipiter (some 10 times now, the whole book), and some other articles about accipiters. Als, I have encounter about sparrs (training etc...) in other books.

As for the food, I did note let her eat FULL CROP, because it's very hot here (in Spain), some 40 g. I am afraind of SOUR CROP. But I feed her so that the second day at the same hour, to be again in the weight (229 grams). So, she's eating some...25 grams of pigeon, with bones, some few feeders and internal organs.

When I was saying that it will make bad habits, I am refering on agression like McDermott say. I was thinking yesterday to introduce the fist (like you say here), and then no introduce it to lure, only if I see that she starts to cover and signs of agression.

As for the weight.... she's got a "V" chest !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am afraid to cut she's weight again. She's 229 grams in wheight, and some 250 - 255 g, afret feeding. I give her 2 meals / day (morning and afternoon).

Today, I will train her to the fist. I got a feeling that she will progres very well to fist! I will try to put some fotos, but i see that I am not able...the fotos have some 150 - 200 kb, I don't receive any error, is just that doesnt apear when I submit my reply. I will try again...
Thankyou again.

[OutFlying]

You are not answering my question - I'm not asking if you give her a FULL CROP, does she it eat her full ration of food for the day in one go without pausing or does she take her time eating it.

McDermott book isn't going to be very relevent to a 50 day creche reared spar that has been reared completely different to a social imprint.

I would only give a very small meal in the morning and give the main meal later on when cooler. I'd feed her on the fist and get her use to yourself and the type of food your offering.

Where is she kept indoors or outdoors ?

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

You really need to get hold of "A Hawk for the Bush"

[GoshawkRST]

OutFlying, I am very sorry, I didn't get your questios, I was thinking you are asking about the full crop (that's why I have replyed 2 times about that). Sorry.
She starts eating a little bit slow, but once she eats a few tidbits, start to eat fast. I hope I've understtand well your questions and gave you the right reply.

I will introduce the fist, and call it to it.
Yes, I keep it Indoors, 24/7, right in the midlle of the living room, and the whole day is siting on top of the perch without a SINGLE bate!!! This morning bates one time (but not agitated), to get from the perch on the chair (a higher perch). On the fist is OK (!) I as yesterday morning with it in something like a market, withouth hood, and the bird was SUPER TAME, did not bate neighter 1 time!!!!!!!!!! And think that there where lots of cars, peoples, dogs....it's a crazy life out there! She just sets there and watch everiting around her, and when see sparrows, COMPLETLY ignore everithing and fully concentrate on the small birds! That means that she did not care about the speed cars that pase by, or sounds, peoples etc....
It's very tame, yet very serious (because is not playing like an imprint, neighter screaming....).

I will introduce it to the fist, and if the things go bad (agresion), to the lure.
Thankyou again (sorry for the bad english).!

[Tim Laycock]

sorry for the bad english
Its better than my spainish! :D

[OutFlying]

GoshawkRST,
If she is kept indoors then only feed once a day, it should be cool enough for her. I'm sure you'll notice a BIG difference when feeding once a day, as she nears feeding time she should be very keen - feeding twice a day will not produce the same hunger levels even though the weight is the same.
OF.

[GoshawkRST]

Thankyou BlackBird and OutFlying.

I just feed her on the fist a few tidbits, and then call her to it, from a chair. She made some 5 or 6 sort flights to the fist (abour 40 centimeters). It's very good for her first jumps. :o

So, if I feed her only 1 time per day, let's say in the afternoon, it will be better? I have feed her 2 times / day, because i was thinking that more repetition is better and will learn more easy. I will try feed her 1 (the afternoon), and feed her more. Also, i will use for the next fist jumps session, some RED mucle, since I've observed that she's got a lot more response when sees red meat.

How is your bird's chest? I guess it's preaty sharp for the hot wheader? MIne was 225 grams today, and made those 5 or 6 jumps... Now is 242 grams.

Thankyou again for your time!!!

[Tim Laycock]

(abour 40 centimeters).
Its better than the lure and at least shes catching your fist with her feet! :wink:

I would prefer to feed her early morning due to the hot weather. my second preference would be for the evening for the same reasons.
If you have her appetite adjusted this way then you will find entering her at quarry much less of a task too.
You might also find that you dont need her to be quite so sharp to progress steadily at these times.

[OutFlying]

Hotter than ever today, she's now 250 grams. Superb to recall one whistle whilst in flight she turns and returns to the fist no problem or called off to the lure at 200 meters not instant but then decides to come. Still no interest to chase or come into yarrak, short rations will try again tomorrow. This is the worst time with an imprint, reducing weight to enter combined with the hot weather - screaming I'm starving but not really that hungry when it comes to hunting.

OF.

[GoshawkRST]

I know what your saying BlackBird, yet the sparr is not catching the fist, she is only stepping/jumping on it.
Well, I will adjust her to feed 2 times / day, morning and afternoon, because of her methabolism.

The wheader here is critical, so hot.....!!!!!!!!!......

Today I have shown her a pigeon, right next to her perch, to see what reaction does she have. It seems that ignore the pigeon, even if i put it very close. The pigeon bate, but the sparr only loke at it with curiosity.
This is good for the moment, I am happy that she is not scare of "large" birds like pigens. Yesterday she bates toward some wild pigeons, but today...nothing.

I will continue update you with infos of her progress.

Thankyou and good hawking!

[Tim Laycock]

yet the sparr is not catching the fist, she is only stepping/jumping on it.
At least she is coming to realise that feet are an seesntial part of eating dinner. :D
I think this part of your problem stems from creche reared eyasses all being fed from a shared bowl of chopped food and never having to tear their own meat.
I have had a similar problem with my Gos but she has now "got to grips" with meat tied directly to the lure 8)

[Jastreb]

Pidgeon in the bag half hour ago, from wait on. She was 240 grams, screaming like hell, but very hot pursuit :twisted: :supz: .
It is hellowa hot, and horible to go out in the field. I will try the same field tommorow, LOTS OF PIDGEONS :twisted: :twisted: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I am very jelous at you boys who still can keep your birds inside!
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

Sounds similar to here at the moment.................Not good for hawking

[GoshawkRST]

Waiting on sparrowhawk??????? And I was thinking I've hear everything!!!
How is your bird's chest in this wheader???????

Mine just made some 10 jumps to the fist, from around 1 meter distance. She responds better that this morning when I introduce the fist!

[Matt]

hello there im in posetion of two young spars a 10 day old female and a fair bit older musket . they are from the guys in manchester that advertise on the ibr website and c.&a.b . they are realy nice lads with some realy nice spars big to . they have unrelateds and plenty of muskets on offer if any body is intrested. i cant recomend them enough . all the best maTT
PS THE 2004 FEMALE IS A SMASHER AND I WANT HER SO HANDS OF LOL

[Jastreb]

Waiting on with imprint spar is not a problem. In the case if you have open area withouth trees shee will starts to follow you in the air. In the first few times that will be only for a few seconds. Then you serve her the lure. Next time you serve the lure littel bit later and so on. After few days if you have chance to flush game while she is in the air-YOU ARE DONE!
But very best of spar you will see when you will flying her from fist :D :mrgreen: :twisted: :supz: !
P.S. Breast bone is sharp, but in cold weather will be better!
Cheers Jastreb

[GoshawkRST]

Outflying...only one question more (i promise is the last one :) )... you say that feeding only once per day, it will respond far more better... I feed her 2 per day, and even if she is in weight (the cest bone...quite sharp....), she seems that is not very interested, and always waiting to call her from VERY sort distances... can you tell me more about this 1 time feeding / day ??? If so, LOTS OF THANKS for your time and reply!!!!

Best regards!

[Finnish]

Goshawkrst you can ask as many questions as you like. This is what the forum is for. Iam sure that Outflying will not mind if it helps you.

Finnish

[OutFlying]

Outflying...only one question more (i promise is the last one :) )... you say that feeding only once per day, it will respond far more better... I feed her 2 per day, and even if she is in weight (the cest bone...quite sharp....), she seems that is not very interested, and always waiting to call her from VERY sort distances... can you tell me more about this 1 time feeding / day ??? If so, LOTS OF THANKS for your time and reply!!!!

Best regards!

If you (yourself) had 2 meals a day you wouldn't feel very hungry during the time between meals but if you ate once a day - I bet you be ready for your meal. The spar or any hawk is the same, the most common timescale used is the 22 hour period between feeding. So at the same weight and with a bigger meal (for instance 30 grams of meat rather than 2 lots of 15 grams) going through the spar it will have a greater appetite or hunger at the time of flying.

Try it and see.

Yours OF.

[Jastreb]

245 grams, one missed spar and 300 meters pidgeon chase.
Didn't have enough chance today!
OF how is yours spar and weather?
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

240 grams today, hot weather replaced with strong winds and rain - nothing in between for good hawking.

Flew at 6 am first this morning - wild spar came andtried to take mine from a bush top. She wasn't keen at 249 grams anyway so decided to feed very little and try again this evening. But winds too strong for a young imprint to hold the glove without creating problems so decided to call it a day - tried on moving fresh moving magpie lure - hit it in an instant.

Trying again tomorrow, I've never struggled like this before to enter a hawk - someone up top doesn't want this season to be too easy :lol: - it would be nice for a cool still day for a change.

OF.

[Afshimo]

Hiya,

Just been flicking through all the pages (yep, right from number 1) and was thinking for the thread of the month, how about this one?

Tons of info for the ppl interested in spars etc, great pics...good idea?

I have a question for you, how does the training differ from a pr to an imprint? I dont have any books on shortwings, but that might be changing lol, fancy reading up on them out of interest.

Good luck with all you spars and muskets!

[M & J Raptors]

240 grams today, hot weather replaced with strong winds and rain - nothing in between for good hawking.

Flew at 6 am first this morning - wild spar came andtried to take mine from a bush top. She wasn't keen at 249 grams anyway so decided to feed very little and try again this evening. But winds too strong for a young imprint to hold the glove without creating problems so decided to call it a day - tried on moving fresh moving magpie lure - hit it in an instant.

Trying again tomorrow, I've never struggled like this before to enter a hawk - someone up top doesn't want this season to be too easy :lol: - it would be nice for a cool still day for a change.

OF.

OF

You have been blessed in the past with quality breeding, :yawinkle:


BC

[GoshawkRST]

Finnish - ok, thankyou, but I don't wana hit you all with so many stupid questions :) , and in a post that is speaking about the progress of the OutFlying and Jastreb ' s spars. Thankyou again and sorry for interuping the discussion.

OutFlying - thankyou again. I will try that! Today, the sparr flew to the fist outside, with the crence, in a local forest. But again, the distance was only 1 meter. She's response was....let's say..good for her first day flying on the crence. I let her eat a tiring on the fist, there in the forest.
Well, walking there a large wild forest pigeon have seen the sparr, and start's falling to the ground and bating like he was heart - you know how the pigeons made when they have nest around, to atract the predator's atention. Preaty good image, as the sparr was watching the "crazy" pigeon how bates on the ground, in front of us. :)

Jastreb - my sparr's response was a little bit better today, as the wheader was cooler. Yet, she still had a "V" chest... (not V, but almost).
The wheater here....BLODY HOT...and there are lots of hectars of forest burning... :cry: ... just watch the news and you will see how is here in Spain....

[Matt]

thanx hanna i wll try to get a few pics of my pair up in a day or so its just that we have not properly unpacked from our move.
the musket we have called "punch" and my son (finn) has named the female "miff" im not sure why but he is only 2 1/2 years old lol.
the musket "punch" is manning up well deffo the most delicate bird i have handeled . but is bright steady in nature and very confidant i would think it will not be long before he is flying free and entered.
all the best matt

[OutFlying]

240 grams today, hot weather replaced with strong winds and rain - nothing in between for good hawking.

Flew at 6 am first this morning - wild spar came andtried to take mine from a bush top. She wasn't keen at 249 grams anyway so decided to feed very little and try again this evening. But winds too strong for a young imprint to hold the glove without creating problems so decided to call it a day - tried on moving fresh moving magpie lure - hit it in an instant.

Trying again tomorrow, I've never struggled like this before to enter a hawk - someone up top doesn't want this season to be too easy :lol: - it would be nice for a cool still day for a change.

OF.

OF
You have been blessed in the past with quality breeding, :yawinkle:
BC

:lol: :lol: Hows he moulting out ?

[Jastreb]

OF I am curios about mine and your spars hunting weight, because yours was much bigger. We must make some paperes about that :D :supz: !
Hannah you have much more security with imprint spar but that doesn't mean that you can't loos imprint. Advantage is that you can fly them on the higher weight specialy during winter months, and that can saves your spar life.
GRST I was jut listening about fire on Croatian BBC NEWS, thats horible thing. We also had lots of problem with fire during summer months on the Adriatic coast. They were talking on the NEWS that they caught some young man who was making the barbique and then leave it and went to take a bath in the nearest river. They also told that he can get 20 years of prison!
Today is a bit colder here, I hope it will be good hawking this afternoon!
Cheers Jastreb

[Finnish]

240 grams today, hot weather replaced with strong winds and rain - nothing in between for good hawking.

Flew at 6 am first this morning - wild spar came andtried to take mine from a bush top. She wasn't keen at 249 grams anyway so decided to feed very little and try again this evening. But winds too strong for a young imprint to hold the glove without creating problems so decided to call it a day - tried on moving fresh moving magpie lure - hit it in an instant.

Trying again tomorrow, I've never struggled like this before to enter a hawk - someone up top doesn't want this season to be too easy :lol: - it would be nice for a cool still day for a change.

OF.

OF
You have been blessed in the past with quality breeding, :yawinkle:
BC

:lol: :lol: Hows he moulting out ?


I take it your on about the Gos now. :?:

[M & J Raptors]

240 grams today, hot weather replaced with strong winds and rain - nothing in between for good hawking.

Flew at 6 am first this morning - wild spar came andtried to take mine from a bush top. She wasn't keen at 249 grams anyway so decided to feed very little and try again this evening. But winds too strong for a young imprint to hold the glove without creating problems so decided to call it a day - tried on moving fresh moving magpie lure - hit it in an instant.

Trying again tomorrow, I've never struggled like this before to enter a hawk - someone up top doesn't want this season to be too easy :lol: - it would be nice for a cool still day for a change.

OF.

OF
You have been blessed in the past with quality breeding, :yawinkle:
BC

:lol: :lol: Hows he moulting out ?


I take it your on about the Gos now. :?:


Yes Lee sorry,

OF his decks have not come through, :cry:

[GoshawkRST]

Jastreb - yes, it's true about the fire thing.

Well, I see you already have lots of fun with your sparr! I (better yet, "we"), wait some fotos with the blody pigeon in her talons :D !!!
I will try to atach a foto of my sparr here to this message, to se if now I am able to do it.

Best regards!

[GoshawkRST]

Yes, finaly i made it with the fotos! ONe more....

[GoshawkRST]

One more and i'm outy :D

[Tim Laycock]

You were up with the Larks this morning OutFlying. :supz: 8)

How did she Do?

[Matt]

nice !!!!!!!!
im hoping in 20 more days to have my screaming little social food imprint looking like that.
i have a question have you found that mcdermonts writings and formular is worth the hastle ? in terms of trained individuals ? as far as im aware people have been flying imprint spars for anout 15 /20 years , is there any need to go to such lengths to atcheve imprinting at this leavel ? im sure the theary is sound as i have read the article manny times myself but not got my hands on the book so far.
but living as we do in the uk we can not serve our birds (legaly) with the copiouse amounts of baggies that mcdermont does . im shore that this is the key stone to his recipie .

having said all that manny of his handling training and housing methods are sound and well worth adopting. is this the level of involvment you are using in the imprints both uk ans croatia ?
in the past i have talked to manny people that have flown imprint spars and i was firmly under the impresion that beacause of there wayward nature and there small size that as long as the bird was healthy , the imprinting method matterd littel just as long as the bird was imprinted to humans cars dogs ect ect.
food imprinting and screaming seem to disapear after "good hard flying" as spars do not hold imprinting like other birds (falcons ect) reverting back to wild instinct and breeding with there own kind.
all the best matt

[Jastreb]

I think it is, with some personal thinghs which we are doing on our own recepie.
Use McDermott and your own instinct, and you are going to have good imprint!
Cheers Jastreb

[Gaz]

and your own instinct

[GoshawkRST]

Well, today...another lost day...extreamly bad response. I have reduced to only one session / day, in the afternoon. In the forest, the sparr only fly to the fist (and with a very bad response), from 30 cm!!! If I try to call her to the fist for about 1 meter, she compleatly ignores me and starts to preen on the trees brache (to make her plumage).
Her weight today - 228 grams, and with 257 grams does'n want to eat any more...nothing! Is FULL.

What do you say...shall I cut her weight a little bit more? With 257 grams is FULL. With 228, is hoping to the fist from 30 cm... :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Tim Laycock]

How much were you feeding her whan you were feeding her two times a day GoshawkRST?

[OutFlying]

You were up with the Larks this morning OutFlying. :supz: 8)

How did she Do?

BB,
I had to be in Troon Scotland for 8 o'clock this morning - the reason for a very early posting. I took her with me and flew her on the way back tonight. No idea of weight as I didn't return home before flying her (traffic jam). I tried her out the car window and spotted a magpie on an unmade farm road. Only 10 foot away and totally in a world of its own - slipped the spar and bang, she had bound to it and had it pinned down nicely. As I approached she must have loosen her grip on the maggie, and a bit of struggle developed and the magpie made good its escape. Little bit more off required I think.

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

Even so thats a good do :D
A few more grams and she'll be there :supz:

Nice one!

[OutFlying]

nice !!!!!!!!
im hoping in 20 more days to have my screaming little social food imprint looking like that.
i have a question have you found that mcdermonts writings and formular is worth the hastle ? in terms of trained individuals ? as far as im aware people have been flying imprint spars for anout 15 /20 years , is there any need to go to such lengths to atcheve imprinting at this leavel ? im sure the theary is sound as i have read the article manny times myself but not got my hands on the book so far.
but living as we do in the uk we can not serve our birds (legaly) with the copiouse amounts of baggies that mcdermont does . im shore that this is the key stone to his recipie .

having said all that manny of his handling training and housing methods are sound and well worth adopting. is this the level of involvment you are using in the imprints both uk ans croatia ?
in the past i have talked to manny people that have flown imprint spars and i was firmly under the impresion that beacause of there wayward nature and there small size that as long as the bird was healthy , the imprinting method matterd littel just as long as the bird was imprinted to humans cars dogs ect ect.
food imprinting and screaming seem to disapear after "good hard flying" as spars do not hold imprinting like other birds (falcons ect) reverting back to wild instinct and breeding with there own kind.
all the best matt

Matt,
You are right in saying a large part of the recipe is the use of baggies, the book differs from the article and goes into great detail on all aspects of imprinting accipiters. The handling techiques are well thought out. I decided to put the same if not more effort with this spar as my last gos. If you get your imprinting and handling skills to a high level then they can be applied to different accipiters with a high chance of success. I rather use every hawk I own to further my knowledge and not adopt methods based on "its only a spar". I'm sure if she upset at some bad handling or rearing mistake a face bind could be in order.

Yours Jim.

[GoneHawking]

Jim, sounds like the little girl is doing well, not long now until the first kill, keep up the good work mate. 8)

[OutFlying]

Cheers Mark,
I've just weighed her after a feed of one chick at 1915, 274 grams (248 grams empty) - so she was over weight tonight as I thought. Its getting her to focus on quarry for food rather than looking to me for it at the moment, then I'm sure the weight will be regained. Quite noisy now........... :rolleyes:

Jim.

[GoshawkRST]

Blackbird - I have feed her 2 times / day, pigeon meat + bones and feeders. Yesterday nightm I have feed her more that usualy, because this morning she will miss the meal, so from now one, only one session / day.

[GoneHawking]

Jim, I had to drop mine alot too as the weather was bloody hot just at the wrong time last year, she even went up quite high first of all and drifted and played in the breeze, and as you say her focus was on me not really on quarry, the other thing was that there virtually sod all to fly at along the hedgrows, very hard work.

[OutFlying]

I'm going to give the hedges a miss until the cover dies down a bit and shes going better. Window hawking and flying on the moor over a pointer in the next few days - now the temp has dropped to an acceptable level for the dog. Hopefully loads of game flushed right in front of her will get the message through.

Jim.

[GoneHawking]

sounds like a good setup, good idea to leave the hedgerows, maybe in a couple of months or so, do you have any partridges to fly at?

[OutFlying]

only 3 coveys on my own piece - was wanting to give them a year off this season. Might have an invite to fly wild greys, but have to wait till the 1/09/05 :oops:

[GoneHawking]

Looks like it's the old humbugs for you for a while, still good fun, do you window hawk on your own or have you got a driver?

[OutFlying]

I usually have a driver, but tonight with time running out I tried it solo - very difficult with a maual gear change and your further away from the nearside where all the magpies usually are...............

[GoneHawking]

I tried it up the fields once with my imprint gos, I had the auto Discovery at the time and I was concentrating so much on the rooks that I nearly ditched it, I was the driver for Ivan the other night, no slips but he managed to break the interior and get blood over the leather, good time though and looking forward to some more window hawking with him.

[Matt]

have you guys still got them spars ????? i will have this musket enterd before you guys next post at this rate ... not realy to be honest im not happy with him in turms of weight . 4 3/4 oz flying weight . i think you will agree thats tiny even for a musket . i will hope to send him back and replace him with a much bigger male of a differant breeding . or take a chick for imorinting.
he is bred from andy peel a nice dark bird but just tiny. he was in with other muskets and there was a differance in size that would have you think they were 2 males in with one female.
the little imprint female miff is getting big now she is in pinn with her wings styarting to show the first signs of her primarys. she has gained 3/4 of an once in 4 days . im very happy with her i only wish i could fly her this season but she is destined for other things.
all the best matt

[OutFlying]

Matt,
I thought 5 oz is about average for a musket, he won't be muscled up and its still summer.

Jim.

[GoshawkRST]

Hello. My sparr still in problems. Even with a small weight ( 225 grams ), she still responde VERY bad... always waiting to call her for around 10 cm. If I try to call her from more that 30 cm, she is ignoring me and looking around. I feel bad, since I have now from 8 days, and still bad response, no progress..... :cry: ... I don't know what the hell to do with her!!!!!!!!
I was thinking to feed her only on the lure, for one week or so, and then to start calling her to the lure, from short distances.....

In rest, is tame and everyting fine, just that doesn't respond neighter to fist, nor lure..... Someone have just buyed a sparr from the same breeder, the same age like my sparr, and already killing bagged partidges!!!

[Jastreb]

Come on Viktor..and you Jim :twisted: :!: ...LETS SEE SOME DEATH AND DESTRUCTION... :finga: :mrgreen: :finga: :twisted:
Yo Gaz :twisted: :mrgreen: :finga: :finga: :finga: :butthead: :finga:
Cheers Jastreb

[Jastreb]

:twisted: 8)

[SparsTheOne]

thats one sweet little hawk you have there m8.


jase.

good luck this season with her.

[Jastreb]

Thanks mate!
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

Hello. My sparr still in problems. Even with a small weight ( 225 grams ), she still responde VERY bad... always waiting to call her for around 10 cm. If I try to call her from more that 30 cm, she is ignoring me and looking around. I feel bad, since I have now from 8 days, and still bad response, no progress..... :cry: ... I don't know what the hell to do with her!!!!!!!!
I was thinking to feed her only on the lure, for one week or so, and then to start calling her to the lure, from short distances.....

In rest, is tame and everyting fine, just that doesn't respond neighter to fist, nor lure..... Someone have just buyed a sparr from the same breeder, the same age like my sparr, and already killing bagged partidges!!!

CAN'T BE HUNGRY THEN>>>>>> What are you feeding her

[Tim Laycock]

And how much?

[GoshawkRST]

Hello.
I feed pigeon meat (with feeders and bones), also internal pigeon organs.
Some... 35 - 40 grams / day...
She's got a "V" chest...and I am afraid to cut the weight a little bit more.
Well, I hade birds before, but never tryed to train a sparrowhawk, and my humile opinion: she is not hungry...she is not in weight!!! But I am asking you more, because she's got this "V" chest and I am afraid to cut more... what do you say???

In the forest, is sitting o the breanch, and start to make the plumage, and ignores me (compleatly ignores me).
Yesterday, she was 225 grams in the woods, and after a very bad response and from short range (smaller that 1 meter distance), and with the full crop, she weighted some 255 grams.

The only think that I have in mine, is that she is not in weight, yat I am afraid of her condition....

[Matt]

mmmmmmmm nice bird lovly marking and doing what shes soposed to do . im very jelouse indeed i hope this situation improves with punch and i can post a few pics of him on blackys ect. all the best to all you sparvitos this year .
out flying im was hoping for the biggest musket i could find for the odvious reson of keeping it alive all season . the way he is going i dont think i would dear weather him at all in the winter as he went under the other day in not to cold weather after a good mice feed 4 hours earler. it conserns me is all . i know this is gona be the way with a musket , but im lucky i work from home and am around my birds 24/7 so its not to much bother to weight 3 or 4 times a day untill im confterble with him and his weight controll . i think the richer the food the better so cant aford to give him less than quial mice and rat meat pluss what ever we catch. we are underway setting up our quial breeding/incubation mice collony and rattery as we speak . as a bill for £30 in mice the other day was a shock aspesialy as between the to imprints has allmost gone .
all the best matt

[Tim Laycock]

GoshawkRST
You may be worying over the "V" chest unnecessarily. dont forget you are not training a "Fat" recipie imprint. The sparrowhawk does have a pronounced "V" chest to start with.
Feeling the body muscles under her wings combined with feeling her "Keel" will give you more information to cross-reference with the weighing scales
The training methods you need to employ are more akin to what would be applied to a parent reared or dual imprinted hawk.

If you consider tomorrows lesson to be a failure, Instead of feeding her twice or once a day I would try this course the day after-

In the morning feed her a small offering on the fist with no casting (an amount roughly the size of a skinned day old chick leg) then let her pluck at the end of a pigeon wing or some similar tiring with very little meat but lots of tough feathers.
The energy she expends on pluming the tiring will set her "Engine" working and make her "Put over" the small amount of food she has just had.
In the afternoon/evening give her an hours carriage on the way to your training ground and also let her plume on an even less generous tiring prior to begining the lesson.
This will serve to relax her and at the same time remind her of her hunger.
I realy hope this works. Otherwise I am at a loss :?

[Matt]

well **** me punch has turned a big corner. picked him up at 12.30 am for about the 100th time today and he was 5oz and 1/8 had him on the fist wile i checked all the usual **** on the net. took him in the kitchen to weigh him at12.50 and he baited to attack the imprint miff who lives in there at the mo. calmed him moved the scales across the room and weighed him for about 4 seconds as he sptoted her and wanted to kill her again. still 5oz 1/8 but well in yarak heckles up nd looking bisnes like. moved him to the computer room /dinning room and he blasted the 10meter in the blink of an eye 3 times in total from diferant perches . bear in mind at 12.30 he would not even look at meat or miff with any intrest.
he is tearing at a rabbit thigh bone right now as i wright this(the left overs of the sakerets dinner)
well there you go may be he will be staying with us after all as this i his fattest response weight so far and it can be improved i feel.
all the best matt look at the time im off to bed

[Isaac]

GoshawkRST
I am by no means a spar expert but my spar flew between 205-210 grams last year even though shes at 260 in the off season. Sometimes spars do come in smaller packages. If you drop her more just do it very slowly (a gram or two a day). She should be coming instantly to the lure when you've got her weight right. If my bird was any higher than 210 last year she'd take forever to come to the lure and then when she did come she'd usually check off at the last second and fly in the opposite direction. Once I dropped her down to 205 though as soon as the lure came out she was all over it. Good luck!

[GoshawkRST]

LOTS of THANKS for your replyes.
I was thinking that if she is a chrcace reared sparr, will pe more like an imprint. That's why I was so worry about her "V".
Anyhow, I will SLOWLY reduce her weight, some 1 or 2 grams / day, and I will see her response.

Thankyou again for your reply!!!

AmericanFalconerinJapan - your small sparr was capable to catch big pigeons???? I was thinking to introduce mine to madpies, as we have lots here, but I was afraid of her small size..... I have made some CHAPS, like the squirrel chaps, to protect her feets, but I am not sure if she got enought strengt to take the magpie and keep her down there until I aproache.....

[OutFlying]

LOTS of THANKS for your replyes.
I was thinking that if she is a chrcace reared sparr, will pe more like an imprint. That's why I was so worry about her "V".
Anyhow, I will SLOWLY reduce her weight, some 1 or 2 grams / day, and I will see her response.

Thankyou again for your reply!!!

AmericanFalconerinJapan - your small sparr was capable to catch big pigeons???? I was thinking to introduce mine to madpies, as we have lots here, but I was afraid of her small size..... I have made some CHAPS, like the squirrel chaps, to protect her feets, but I am not sure if she got enought strengt to take the magpie and keep her down there until I aproache.....

The magpies beak is its main weapon, I don't think chaps will do anything to protect your spar - you will need a keen and brave spar to take the magpies.

Can you get hold of day old chicks ? I feel your feeding too rich a source of food to reduce the weight without only feeding small crops. If you gave her a full crop of skinned chicks - her appetite would increase with a small reduction possible everyday without the spar feeling short changed.

You will need to go to the weight that she responds at not a prefixed idea of a weight on the scales, if she has to be cut fine to start with then so be it.

OF.

[Jastreb]

Like OF said.
You skinn chick, wash them, put them in littel water and leave them with water in the fridge till tommorow. That can help you!
Cheers Jastreb

[GoshawkRST]

Ok. Thankyou.

[OutFlying]

Best day so far. 1st flight a mid air bind to a moorhen but released when the both of them hit the deck together, the spar was underneath. 2nd flight tail chased full grown cock pheasant for 50 metres before pulling off wisely. 3rd flight, she was bobbing her head on a hillside - so I let her go, down the hillside in a stealth glide climbing 2 dry stone walls and a fence before hitting into a flock of starling. All hell breaks lose and starling are blasting out from everywhere but she comes up empty handed. Just that little bit more to come off and she's there - 240 grams today. She is only interested in the big stuff totally ignores larks etc.

Very noisy now Jastreb.

[Tim Laycock]

She is only interested in the big stuff totally ignores larks
:supz: good do!

[GoshawkRST]

Good for you my friend!!! It seems that your sparr is doying grate thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, finaly I encounter the problem, after another blody BAD day :evil: .... she needs to lose some weight! When I get home, I toke some warm water on my finger and start to touch the brest feeders, to discover the bone, to see it with my eyes! And the chest is GRATE !!!! Si needs to lose some weight!!!!!!!!!!! I am so happy that this is tha problem!
Here i let you a foto to see!!!

Blackbird - i have a question for you - i have seen that you gave advices how to create a hood. Well, I do create hoods, but not so perfect like your, and I wana ask you why did you put the hood in water for 10 minutes???? And how is the water (warm) ????? And this is to make the hood a little bit harder (the lether)??? Thankyou for your reply!

Yesterday and today, my spar - 5 meters fist (finaly), and some high jums from only 30 cm. That's a good start....

[Tim Laycock]

That sounds much more promising :D
Blackbird - i have a question for you - i have seen that you gave advices how to create a hood. Well, I do create hoods, but not so perfect like your, and I wana ask you why did you put the hood in water for 10 minutes???? And how is the water (warm) ????? And this is to make the hood a little bit harder (the lether)??? Thankyou for your reply!

If you soak it before beating the eye seams the leather retains the shape that you work it into. also this helps the stiches to bed in well. The water is warm but not as warm as bathwater for example.

[GoshawkRST]

Lots of thanks again my friend!

Best regards and keep up the good work!

[Isaac]

GoshawkRST
Yes, my little spar will take big pigeons. She took one last year that was weighed over 400 grams, twice as much as she did! It's not the size of the body that counts, it's the size of the heart! 8)

[Jastreb]

OF here is the same with nois!

[GoshawkRST]

Oau.... very good!!! Thanks for the foto! That's a small sparr, or a really big pigeon :P !

best regards!

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
238 grams tonight, sods law kick in and no easy slips found. She took on a snipe at range (I don't hold the jesses) and flew it well, but still doesn't take on the small stuff every time. Aggression beginning to show but will continue slightly down in weight, I think she nearly spot on weight just needs to get the full idea of her purpose. She makes out she's starving but still messes about on the lure mantling and looking round rather than eating immediately.

OF.

[Jastreb]

Same thing here mate, I get yestarday GWP bitch, she saw her today for the first time and when she was feeding on the lure she didn't take care about GWP and was hellowa agressiv.
Same flying weight here, but some slips are not very long. That's normal for young spar!
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

Jastreb,
This spar thinks it is a goshawk, today at 234 grams binds to full grown rabbit, attempts a curlew and heron but refuses larks etc. Only the big stuff gets her attention.

OF.

[Finnish]

OF did she keep the Rabbit tho mate.??

[Tim Laycock]

:lol:

[Jastreb]

Well OF that's nice!
I put tail bell yesterday I will put some pics later!
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

OF did she keep the Rabbit tho mate.??

No, she just hitched a ride to the rabbit hole, no stopping power for something of that size.

[Gaz]

A proprerly trained ,confident spar would have reached a leg out and tripped the coney ...all down to the austringer i say. :finga: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[OutFlying]

228 grams - totally different spar. Taking on the small stuff, one good flight with plenty of twists and turns on a lark - she's been on the equivalent of the Top Gun course now. Noise in the field down and in full yarrak for the first time. Will continue down a touch and hopefully then increase the weight back up once catching regularly.

OF.

ps Sorry Gaz, the tripping up the rabbit sounds like a harris hawker trick :shock:

[Finnish]

OF did she keep the Rabbit tho mate.??

No, she just hitched a ride to the rabbit hole, no stopping power for something of that size.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[OutFlying]

Marshalls micro back pack fitted tonight, now preening in. Will try it fitted with transmitter in the field tomorrow.

[Matt]

can we see her with the back pack on please . i would love to see how weel they look and fit.
ha i got the musket out and fliying free its a matter of time now lads and lasses. just a matter of time.
all the best matt

[OutFlying]

Will do tomorrow Matt.............

[GoshawkRST]

Hello there! I see you have fun with your spars!!!

Mine, needs to lose some weight (i verify that "V" chest with water, and still needs to lose weight!!! :shock: ...she's got a preaty chest!!! :wink: ).
Anyhow, she is flying to the fist some 10 meters and yesterday I presented the lure, she strike it from 2 meter (inside the house) and wat on the lure. I call her 5 times, until FULL CROP. She flew with 223 grams.

I have a question for you: what are the signs of YARAK ??? With 223 grams, she caught preaty good the glove.. she's got lot of power on her feets!!! But still, in the field is waiting to call her from short distances. Needs to lose some veight. I'll try again today, with 220 - 223 grams.

Best regards and keep up those good flights!

[GoshawkRST]

.."wat" on the lure... :? ...wana say "EAT". Sorry for that!

[Tim Laycock]

I have a question for you: what are the signs of YARAK ???
Fluffed out feathers, Erect crest. The hawk will also appear to be very alert and is likley to vocalise.

[GoshawkRST]

Thankyou BlackBird!

I am not sure about the erect crest , but I do understand the other terms.

Well, McDermott say that is good to cut the food aveability 24 hours for a brancher, but I think that;s not possible, because the bird will die...
Exemple: My spar on 225 grams today at 19:00. I feed her full crop, and weights 258 grams (or 260). Tomorrow, at 19:00, again will have 225, or even 223! That is after 12 hours, but what will happen if you not feed the bird, until the next morning at 7:00, like McDermott say??? The bird will be undervheight and die! :? .... I don't understand why McDermott say that you cut the weight in an brancher, 24 hours??? :? :? :? And if I am right, he also say to cut the weight like this, on Sharpies????????

[OutFlying]

Thankyou BlackBird!

I am not sure about the erect crest , but I do understand the other terms.

Well, McDermott say that is good to cut the food aveability 24 hours for a brancher, but I think that;s not possible, because the bird will die...
Exemple: My spar on 225 grams today at 19:00. I feed her full crop, and weights 258 grams (or 260). Tomorrow, at 19:00, again will have 225, or even 223! That is after 12 hours, but what will happen if you not feed the bird, until the next morning at 7:00, like McDermott say??? The bird will be undervheight and die! :? .... I don't understand why McDermott say that you cut the weight in an brancher, 24 hours??? :? :? :? And if I am right, he also say to cut the weight like this, on Sharpies????????

No it wouldn't die

[Tim Laycock]

Crest Erect-The feathers on the neck and top of the head raised as a dog might "Raise its Hackles" (similar to a threatening posture)

Why the intrest in a branchers perscribed food intake GoshawkRST? :?
Your bird is no longer a brancher. If she were wild she would be on the verge of being a passage bird.

She will definately not die.

Passage birds "go to bed with no supper" often at first.