Sick Spar

[Sprout]

Had a wild female spar brought in today, found in Liverpool and apparently checked out by their local vet. They were told there was nothing wrong with it and to release it straight away. On release it collapsed to the floor so they brought it to me. Never seen a bird in such a bad state - severely dehydrated, razor sharp and only 2 tail feathers. Further examination found a large wound on one leg which is nerotic and massively contaminated and infected, the leg appears to be paralysed. There is also a broken digit on the same limb. The bird also has frounce (trichomonas), capillaria, candida and an overgrowth of bacteria in the mouth!! Where to start! Started symptomatic treatment but biggest problem is correcting the dehydration and emaciation first so regular crop tubing I think for now, deal with the other problems later. Keep you updated.

[Goldie]

:shock: :shock: makes you wonder if that so called "VET" even took the spar out the cardboard box it was probably in. This sounds a case for self policing your own profession Sprout or is it a case of their practice not willing to fund the expense? whatever the reason somebody should be held accountable for lack of professionalism
Do keep us informed of its progress

[Jiff]

to be quite honnest it sounded like euphanasia was the answer but like the rest of the members it's easier said than done, but i must say with the amount of injury i think shock will do the rest, sprout you have the job in hand by administering fluids, a good electrolite solution is the answer,and if the bird survives a day or so then you may be on a winner, electrolite will reduce the effect of shock the bird realy needs a dark quiet place but as i said with the injuries you describe and the low condition it's an up-hill strugle mate, keep us informed.

[OhMyGod]

what do you intend on doing with a spar with one foot. releasing it into the wild with no musle just fat. to compete with wild spars?

[Bubo]

Well done sprout and thanks for giving details of problems and how you are going about treating it, i appreciate posts like this. Good luck with the spar and will look forward to your updates (just hope they are to say he is on the up).

[Bubo]

what do you intend on doing with a spar with one foot. releasing it into the wild with no musle just fat. to compete with wild spars?

lets just see if it makes it that far first!

[Sprout]

Pulled though night ok and relatively bright this morning. Started adding small amount of A/D to electrolyte solution but still having to crop tube. Cleaned wound up just with dilute hibiscrub and continuing broad spectrum antibiotics. Of all the problems I'm most concerned about the dehydration and emaciation, if it pulls through the next 24 hours or so then I suspect it will stand a good chance. I think it has suffered the injury to it's leg preventing it from hunting effectively, its become weak and all the other problems are secondary to this. It does still have 2 feet and providing it dpesn't die from being so emaciated the leg wound should respond to debriding the dead tissue and antibiotics. Long term plan would be to moult it out and possibly fly it to ensure it is fit enough for release. I hope you realise OMG by now from my previous posts that I am 100% against keeping wild raptors in captivity because they are not fit enough for release, if it is unable to be released it will be euthanased.

[OhMyGod]

Will the broken digit not give it problems when trying to get pigeons, especially in the cold winter months? What about the paralized leg, will it recover?

Are you going to train it and find slips for it every day, until it is catching pigeons on a daily basis, moult it out next year then do the same again for a couple of months getting it real fit again? This would be a bit of a task and it would remain in your possesion for the next 17 months, unless it breaks feathers again then you would have to keep it for another year.

I have not seen the bird but if it survives the treatment I wouldn't think it would survive the winter having had injuries in the past as enough of these birds die in the winter when they are 100%

[Sprout]

Leg improved already, standing on it ok and able to move toes, digit should be ok and not cause any long term problems. True mortality rate is high but thats no reason not to attempt rehabilitation. As I said, if it survives (looking really good so far) I will imp it up, fly it to assess it's hunting abilities and all being well moult it out and release it in the spring. True it won;t be fit then but will be fat and planty of young prey around so should stand as good a chance as any other bird. If you've got any other solutions apart from euthanasia OMG I would be very interested.

[OutFlying]

If it regained good health but didn't regain full fitness would it be suitable and legal to use for breeding ?

OF.

[Sprout]

Not sure. I'm not 100% happy keeping wild birds in captivity. Would much rather see it released though. Ate about 1/4 crop of quail/DOC tonight of own accord so definitely improving.

[Goldie]

If it regained good health but didn't regain full fitness would it be suitable and legal to use for breeding ?

OF.

No reason why not Jim, my mate in Wales has a gos with injured wing and only needed a Cert. from vet saying it was unfit for release. He had to get it microchipped before Defra would allow him to breed from it

[OutFlying]

Not sure. I'm not 100% happy keeping wild birds in captivity. Would much rather see it released though. Ate about 1/4 crop of quail/DOC tonight of own accord so definitely improving.

Best of luck, only enquiring if she made good recovery but not 100 % to release.

OF.

[OutFlying]

If it regained good health but didn't regain full fitness would it be suitable and legal to use for breeding ?

OF.

No reason why not Jim, my mate in Wales has a gos with injured wing and only needed a Cert. from vet saying it was unfit for release. He had to get it microchipped before Defra would allow him to breed from it

Thanks Jim.

[Goldie]

Just to add to that, he has been breeding gosses for about 10yrs and always had his rings sent to him but this year as he also used the wild gos and he got a visitor who brought the rings :rolleyes:

[Sprout]

Cheers OF. With response so far just goes to prove how important fluid therapy is. I know she has a lot of problems requiring quite a lot of intensive caring but without the fluid therapy she wouldn't have made it this far. More birds can be saved by knowing how and when to crop tube fluids than by any other means.

[OhMyGod]

O.k. so say the bird is used to breed, who do the profits of the youngsters go to?

They will obviously go to falconry as releasing sparrowhawks would be totally pointless as their numbers are already at the max their prey species, habitat and game keepers allow.

I could quite easily get hold of an injured gos, take it to a mate to fix and breed with for extra income, isn't this open to abuse just slightly.

(no offence sprout)

[Jiff]

look mate! if that bird makes a full recovery from the injuries you described and then goes on to breed well it must be gods willing, i do not believe that a bird from the wild could ever survive in captivity the injuries that you discribed,usualy a wild bird with as much as an impact injury would usualy die from shock in a captive enviroment,it is extremely difficult to keep any wild bird alive especialy one with major contaminated wounds as described,if that bird goes on to breed then you're more than welcome to any procedes from the off-spring.

[Tim Laycock]

Too Right Jiff! I like that.

[Bubo]

Jiff, that is a good point!

black bird i like your signature :lol: 8)

[Sprout]

How has this got onto a thread about the politics of breeding from wild injured raptors? As initially stated, the plan is release eventually, if not it WILL NOT be kept as a breeding bird, I've already stated I don;t agree with keeping wild injured birds in captivity (unless there is some conservational value which as OMG has rightly pointed out there isn't in spars).
As an update the leg is looking really good, there is still a wound present that has scabbed over now, the inflammation is settling quickly and there is only healthy granulation tissue present. The spar is using the foot well and the toe is well aligned (took splint off today). I've stopped crop tubing it and it is eating 4 chicks mixed with quail daily and putting weight on well. Castings are looking good and there is no longer any evidence of frounce or capillaria. There are still some bacterial lesions in the mouth but these are much improved.
The whole point of this topic was to give people an idea of how treatment progresses in raptors. Unless a very thorough examination had been performed with the diagnostic tests done there and then all the secondary problems would have been missed. The leg wound may have been treated but would have succumbed to the secondary problems. By identifying these early and treating early, the bird has now almost fully recovered. Again, forget the range of drugs and surgery required so far, the bird would have died in the first 24hours without fluid therapy. If you don't know how to perform this life saving procedure learn now before it's too late.

[Tim Laycock]

I take my hat off to you for putting a gangly girl back on the right road Sprout.
Top man! :D

[Bubo]

I join Blackbird!! well done sprout and thank you for this thread.

[Ben C]

I found a buzzard that had been mobbed by crows and had a small hole in its head (the size of a 5 pence piece, a little smaller maybe). Cody flew next to it on a branch and it just sort of fell of onto the floor. I picked it up and took it home. It was wet, its eyes were closing and it was a gonna. I checked it over etc etc and then the first thing I did was give it some electrolyte via the crop tube. I had never done it before and was ******** myself. Anyway I moisted the tube and added the mix and sent it off to the vets the next morning. It sorted itself out and was released back into the wild.

Now perhaps I should have left it (thats one of those things and if I had very possibly illegal??) but I am glad I had a 'test' bird if you will, because as sure as eggs is eggs one day I'll have to do it to Cody. I wonder how many people have attempted a mock up or at least measured all the stuff out and tried to pop the tube down a makeshift hole (no jokes gentlmen :) ).

[Tim Laycock]

no jokes gentlmen
DAMMIT! :mrgreen:

[Bubo]

:lol: does that mean us ladies can :wink:

[Tim Laycock]

:D :D :mrgreen:

[Ben C]

I will pop my tube down any ladies hole if you like bubo, can't garuntee a full squirt of electrolyte or a full recovery though :) :) :)

[Bubo]

:lol: :lol: this is definately way off subject and hit the gutter.. blush blush so..erm .sprout buddy... tell us more... (just changing the subject rather smartishly) :lol:

[Tim Laycock]

Ben. Mostly you make me laugh :lol: but then I read that over my dinner I nearly bawked up :vom: :rolleyes:

Sprout.
Save us please :!: :D

[Sprout]

Crop tubing is something easily done but best practiced before it is really needed, insert the tube in the wrong hole and you're in sh*t

[Sprout]

:shock: :wink:

[Ben C]

Your just as bad as me........it took me about 3 minutes to get that you crafty ****** :) :)

[OutFlying]

****** :oops: :oops: :oops:

[Shaun Byrne]

Your just as bad as me........it took me about 3 minutes to get that you crafty ****** :) :)

Took me abot 15, DOH!! :D

[Tim Laycock]

I got it on the button. Pmsl (Is my mind filth? :twisted: )lmfao

[Ben C]

Yep mon amiee, surely it is :)

[Ben C]

What does mon amiee mean???.....its not french for 'my love' is it. In which case you can sod off BB! :)

[Sprout]

My friend

[Ben C]

Phew............

[Tim Laycock]

Yes thank fark for that :!: :rolleyes:

[Sprout]

Anyway, spar definitely improving. Footed me good and proper with the so called bad leg! Now need to source some tail feathers to imp it, I've got most already but missing LHS deck and 2 outers from the right.

[Ben C]

Pictures please. :)

I've got pheasant and harris feathers if thats any good?? I dare you to send it back out with harris feathers (gonna get some stick now!!!)

[Tim Laycock]

Anyway, spar definitely improving. Footed me good and proper with the so called bad leg! Now need to source some tail feathers to imp it, I've got most already but missing LHS deck and 2 outers from the right
Is it not halfway througn renewing them anyway sprout?

[Sprout]

Unfortunately not. There are only 2 feathers in the whole tail, the others have been broken right at the base but all still present. Either it hasn't started the moult yet or worse it's already moulted and been damaged since. It still needs imping now to protect the new feathers coming through if it does start moulting soon. Getting pretty fat now, think might put it in an aviary for a few weeks to assess it, if ok poss man it up and start flying.

[Tim Laycock]

I understand your problem Sprout, as the bird is a wild hawk it will be an untimley moulter and bearing in mind your intentions towards the bird with regard to a prompt release I hope you find some.
I did have a couple of spar tails but they got burned recently :x :roll:

[Sprout]

Thinking of using Jackdaw tail feathers, bit easier to get hold of and roughly same length. Bit more flexible than a spars but should at least be enough to support any new feathers coming through.

[Tim Laycock]

Saw a kestrel tail imped on to a spar a while back!!!
Worked prety well I heard :|

[Bubo]

ready guys?? here comes a bubo special :wink: i know how to imp but i dont know much about it. Will the imped feathers just fall out if new ones come through? Do the imped feathers not hinder the new ones coming through properly?

cheers
bubo

[Shaun Byrne]

Bubo, once a feather has broken, it will not regrow until the moult, hence the need to imp one in.

You can only imp if there is some of the broken feather left, if it has been pulled out, nothing can be done.

An imped feather will be pushed out as normal by the new feather growth during the moult.

HTH

[Bubo]

Cheers mate!

[Kornie]

Had to crop tube trinity, me and mother, very useful skill. I advice everyone to go to a book and just glance over what needs to be done. Just avoid the air hole like the plague (like that? very scientific "air hole" ill have you know!):)

[Ben C]

Bubo, imping is also a very very delicate skill that needs to be learn't practically. You have got to have all the stuff ready and do it on a 'live' hawk to know how to do it. When its done properly its invisable (haven't managed that yet!!! :) ) The same with coping and clipping really.

How people manage to do this stuff without going on a course is beyond me. :) :)

Have we got a pictures yet sprout.....I'd love to see this Sparrowhawk. :) :) Even with a parrots tail. :)

[Bubo]

I have found a great falconer here in belgium who lives not far from me. He has been kind enough to let me tag along with him and his hawks so I can start to get some hands on training (with the birds 8) ) He will be showing me how to imp so that will be pretty neat as i have only really read about it in books and from here.

As for crop tubing, i have seen it done at the rehab centre I used to go to but have never tried it myself.

[Goldie]

How people manage to do this stuff without going on a course is beyond me. :) :))

That is a fair question mate, the strange thing is, I do not personally know ANYONE who has been on one. All my friends and acquaintances either tagged along with another falconer or picked up the basics by reading and then phoning someone they knew for further advice.
This might be worth taking to a new thread.

[Tim Laycock]

Go Ahead! :D It is a good idea Goldie!

[Sprout]

Luckily (or unluckily for the bird) our other practice has had a spar brought in tonight but was dead before it arrived (flew into a window I think). Not sure if a female or a musket but from the size they told me over the phone sounds more likely to be a female so hopefully should have a complete tail to imp into the one I've got (unless it's moulting). I've got some pre-photos, look pretty grim! but shall imp her up tomorrow and try and get more photo's and have a go at posting them. Could someone PM me and tell me how to re-size them please? I know this has been covered loads of times before but not really followed it in the past!

[Sprout]

Flew free for first time tonight! Manned and got flying quicker than any other bird I've ever handled! Fully imped up now thanks to the other spar. The only problem now with her is if you look at her whilst she is flying or feeding on the fist she launches directly at your face! Bit of a pain. Think will just fly her to the lure, might be a bit safer. New plan is to see if she is able to hunt effectively and if all ok/not too long poss leave her on a kill and remove all equipment. Unfortunately she has started moulting since I imped her up and dropped 1 tail feather so far so will also depend on whether the moult beats me entering her. Any other ideas guys? Don't really want to leave her in an aviary over winter if can help it.

[Sprout]

Also noticed she appears to be left footed (at least when going for me!) but not sure how significant this is as it was the right leg she had all the problems with but certainly appears to tie in with Bubos theory.

[Bubo]

cheers sprout that is quite a neat piece of information - we have notes on a wild bird as well as captive birds. thanks a lot. Eye contact, i find is something very interesting too and I have found communication with my owl can happen through eye contact especially if i need to get him settled about something. Weird i know but there does seem to be something to study there too :mrgreen:


I think you would have noticed if she was right footed as i have found out that a bird having an injury to one foot makes it more noticeable. If she was right footed then I think you would have seen her trying to make an effort to use it no matter how slow or clumsy she would have been. This is really what confirmed in my mind that kadabra was left footed. He really tried to use it (instinctively) and realised it hurt so resorted to using his right foot. There is some clumsiness too for some actions when he used the other foot rather like us when we try to write with the other hand.

cheers sprout and good luck with your bird
bubo

[Sprout]

Flying well and imps look good. Respomding well to the lure but still a cow bag to pick up off lure afterwards. Eye contact is not recommneded with this bird bubo! still launching at face if look at her whilst eating. Had slips this afternoon, all quite long distance but it's amazing to see the difference with a wild bird compared to an eyass - flew straight to hedge and slipped over opposite side, flying along far side before flipping over last minute although me being on the "right" side of the hedge alerted the sparrows and they were off before she flipped over. Just going to take a bit of time and luck I think.

[UKJay74]

sprout is great to hear a wid bird that is injured is going so well :D hope it makes it right the way back to its wild flight status

[Sprout]

Thanks. One perk to the job? :yawinkle:

[UKJay74]

Thanks. One perk to the job? :yawinkle:

definatley mate one hell of a perk :D

[Bubo]

Eye contact is not recommneded with this bird bubo! .


No i didnt mean for message to come across like that :oops: I meant eye contact is something the birds react to, either aggressively,evasively or otherwise. I am allowed to look my bird into the eyes because i know him so well and how he reacts to it.

bubo

[Sprout]

First kill today!! So looking promising for an early release. Been a little difficult entering as she refuses direct, straight of line slips, always prefering to veer off to one side to try to mug them or take stand from trees and flush towards her. Anyway, slipped today on some sparrows but veered off down the track to the edge of the field and up into a tree. Walking back through the field to the edge so I could find some clear ground to throw the pure out onto I flushed some finches feeding which flew straight towards the corner where she was sat. Just before they reached the cover of the bushes she dropped out of the tree and grabbed one but then flew back into another tree to devour it before returning to the lure 20 minutes later!

[Goldie]

Been a little difficult entering as she refuses direct, straight of line slips, always prefering to veer off to one side to try to mug them !

Things are looking good for an early release Sprout, you've done well.
The style of her flight is what she has learned in the wild as it's what works for most spars (ambush them) :lol: I flew a wild spar many years ago and she hunted exactly the same, it just meant I missed the actual taking of the quarry as it was usually on the other side of a hedge on many occasions.

[Bubo]

that is really great news! it is great reading her progress

[Tanith]

How rewarding for you to see such good progress.

[Sprout]

Improving in fitness each day although getting very sticky footed. As soon as a slip is sighted she tenses up so much and grips the glove that she ends up bating on the fist rather than flying! Missed 2 relatively easy slips today because of sticky footedness but doesn't really matter too much as she never chases properly directly off the fist anyway, much better out of trees. No luck today but looking promising for a release, need some regular kills first though.

[Bubo]

how can you get a bird to understand not to be so sticky footed?

[Musket]

What do tou think about slipping her in the palm of your hand and have her thrown or tossed in the direction of the quarry, as described in A Hawk fo the Bush, it might help solve the sticky fotted problem

[Sprout]

Already tried that. Spar doesn't mind being handled in that way as I've been casting it frequently to medicate it but still won't take slips on directly.

[Bubo]

would placing her on a branch or something do any good? (if not why not?) sorry for asking so many questions but this is interesting.

[Kornie]

THis has been one of the most interesting threads ive read Sprout, shame about no pictures though :(

[Sprout]

Released today!!!! Had 4 kills in 4 days so let her carry her quarry today as usual (couldn't tell what it was). Then called her to the lure for a whole quail and whilst she fed cut her anklets off and sat back and left her. Once finished flew straight up into a tree and is still there now. Left with a good set of feathers, proven she can hunt and should be nicely fattened up for a few days at least. Back to being bored now! Nothing to fly.

[Ben C]

Hooray for Sparrow.......:) :) :) (NOW PAY ATTENTION AT THE BACK..........yes that includes you too Ohmygod!!!!! :) :) :) )

Well done, you have now earn't your right in heaven sitting next to Edmund Bert no less and a pleathora of swaying naked beauties, who are calling your name and gently stroking your skin with Dodo feathers, while pouring fine wine down your throat. :) :)

[Bod]

Nice one Sprout. :)
I've enjoyed the read. Well done mate.

[Varmint]

Now you'll just have to get Sprout out of Moult and tell us all about him :lol: :wink:

Bored? you are getting married in 4 weeks man, you havent got time to be bored and i've got to sort out the stag night this week!!!!

any one fancy a good night out in the midlands?

[Hawkmaster]

Loveed reading your thread Sprout, many thanks! Also nice to see it was not hijacked by people wanting to take the P or just talk rubbish. :winb: