How many times to the lure??

[SkyGod]

Hi all, was just wondering how you gamehawkers fly your falcon to the lure during training. Have been reading through the threads on here some people fly their falcon to the lure once for all of that days ration. Some fly it three or four times. I have also read a thread where someone does not use a creance he just uses an eight foot leash. I am just interested in everyones views, Cheers.

[SkyGod]

anyone?

[Flash]

twice but i wouldnt really call myself a game hawker (yet)

[SkyGod]

twice but i wouldnt really call myself a game hawker (yet)

is this for there full ration?

[SkyGod]

come on gamehawker :rolleyes:

[WhiteTail]

Im not a game hawker, but i do wait on falcons over Magpies.

I only fly once to the lure each day for the full ration during training
and the same when hunting.

I cant see the reason you might want to rinse & repeat unless you have failed the bird by moving either to fast or failed to explain whats wantedto the bird.

I also only fly haggard birds once, as i want to finish on a fullcrop to suggest end of session

Bird i have seen flown twice often are badly behaved in the hood, either winging up or bating!

which i hate almost as much as birds that have been fed throu the hood and pull at the perch or glove constantly

[SkyGod]

Im not a game hawker, but i do wait on falcons over Magpies.

I only fly once to the lure each day for the full ration during training
and the same when hunting.

I cant see the reason you might want to rinse & repeat unless you have failed the bird by moving either to fast or failed to explain whats wantedto the bird.

I also only fly haggard birds once, as i want to finish on a fullcrop to suggest end of session

Bird i have seen flown twice often are badly behaved in the hood, either winging up or bating!

which i hate almost as much as birds that have been fed throu the hood and pull at the perch or glove constantly

this is the sort ov reply i was looking for cheers

[WhiteTail]

Very basically..

I man the bird till it picks up off the block and wont bate from me or the dog

I then pull the hood off (falcon on block) with a lure at my feet
next day 5ft
second day 5ft
third day on a creance 20 ft
fourth day 30ft
fifth day 100ft lose,
hood off, no lure shown, falcon flies straight at me.. get VERY confused flies past looks over shoulder & i throw lure out.

DAY SIX, 200ft, no lure shown, left to do 3 circles, lure out

Its really not hard, yo just teach the bird to focus on you..
i was lucky, my current falcon which has been lose for 2 months now
was at 100ft by day 6

not because of some special training, but because it was simple,
easy to understand, and he was flown in a desireable area wind wise.

The VERY important factor is that the bird comes off someone fist & Flies TOWARDS YOU.

You need a second person

I put my big black dog beside me for two reasons.
firstly because thats where the dogs going to be when ever the hood is off
second because i hope that this falcon just might have enough brain juice to work out that the big black dog together with me is what he should be looking for, rather than some stranger walking down a road half a mile away

[SkyGod]

DAY SIX, 200ft, no lure shown, left to do 3 circles, lure out



by how many circles round you do you increase it per day?
thanks alot this has helped me very much

[WhiteTail]

The clever bit is knowing what you can get away with

If you think the bird wont circle.. then keep flying it in a straight line but just increase the distance

then reduce the distance & dont throw out the lure,
if you are scared.. then use a whistle each time, and only aim for half circles

draw back to not having any balls, will result in a bird that circles your knees waiting for a lure,

You really want to encourage a little wondering freedom, so that the bird is doing something you want to encourage, ie gaining height,
Very few Falcons will just wonder about lost
they are confused when there is no lure, and often the resulting effect is to gain height & problem solve (think)

If your bird is at a nice high weight, well manned, and knows what a lure is
You really have to just have some confidence,

Using a sensible bit of land, with good wind & weather will only make your case stronger

Remember the only hard bit about game hawking it getting permission to hunt the game on it!

Its easy to do, often over complicated by so many,
And i think with the right understanding
Any beguiner can make a half decent Game hawker,

one thing to note, in the early days, a young Bird is so open minded its amazing

I did a "lets prove a point"
I took a falcon that had been lose for 5 days that was hanging about at 50ft
And when over head i whistled & threw out a dead pheasant,
the bird dropped like a stone & landed on the pheasant,
obviously the falcon was VERY confused, as his little leather pad had grown & changed colour!, but the meat on show soon made him have happy thoughts..

[SkyGod]

this is very good info i will take it all on bord

[Greg]

You must be the only falconer in the country that is able to get hold of legal Haggards!
May I take it from your post that you only ever fly a bird once a day and have never gone for two kills?
In over 40yrs I've never had a bird behave badly in the hood because it is flown twice three times or even four times! Although I accept that you are talking in general terms it is not really advisable to give a timetable to train a bird as they are all different, not only as individuals but also the variations between species! A prairie falcon and a Merlin are nothing alike both in terms of temperament and average training times. A beginner will take longer to train a bird than a person with several years of experience and this is nothing to be ashamed of!


Im not a game hawker, but i do wait on falcons over Magpies.

I only fly once to the lure each day for the full ration during training
and the same when hunting.

I cant see the reason you might want to rinse & repeat unless you have failed the bird by moving either to fast or failed to explain whats wantedto the bird.

I also only fly haggard birds once, as i want to finish on a fullcrop to suggest end of session

Bird i have seen flown twice often are badly behaved in the hood, either winging up or bating!

which i hate almost as much as birds that have been fed throu the hood and pull at the perch or glove constantly

[SkyGod]

[QUOTE=Greg;1048419]You must be the only falconer in the country that is able to get hold of legal Haggards!
May I take it from your post that you only ever fly a bird once a day and have never gone for two kills?

hes only talking about during training

[WhiteTail]

You must be the only falconer in the country that is able to get hold of legal Haggards!
May I take it from your post that you only ever fly a bird once a day and have never gone for two kills?
In over 40yrs I've never had a bird behave badly in the hood because it is flown twice three times or even four times! Although I accept that you are talking in general terms it is not really advisable to give a timetable to train a bird as they are all different, not only as individuals but also the variations between species! A prairie falcon and a Merlin are nothing alike both in terms of temperament and average training times. A beginner will take longer to train a bird than a person with several years of experience and this is nothing to be ashamed of!

I have been lucky enough to practise falconry in the far corners of this earth
so haggards have been played with

With regards to the time table its based on

"unless you have failed the bird by moving either to fast or failed to explain whats wanted to the bird."

Suggesting that if the bird does not understand what your asking your moving to fast, and hence the time table shall flex

with regards to flying falcons multiple times,
i have seen many birds with bad traits due to multiple flying
I would love to hear your routine with multiple flying
because i have seen MANY falcons over the last year that would mess about
And i have one falcon here that i almost put a brail on because it would get so worked up once hooded.. just wanting to fly.! that is was almost usless once in the air due to it being worn out
Maybe you dont have a routine as such? so the bird does not pre empt!

and i think, if you are putting together your flights correctly, you should not have the need to try better it that day
And Game hawking.. once is enough, otherwise get a Shotgun. you'll miss more!

And with pursuit hawking, i can see where flying a second time might be nessersary, but i would rather have a second bird.

Im not going to suggest to a beguiner that he flies a bird multiple times
breaking down one training session and understanding exactly what your aim is & what you think u achieved is a brain full enough

[CJTaylor]

Im not a game hawker, but i do wait on falcons over Magpies.

I only fly once to the lure each day for the full ration during training
and the same when hunting.

I cant see the reason you might want to rinse & repeat unless you have failed the bird by moving either to fast or failed to explain whats wantedto the bird.

I also only fly haggard birds once, as i want to finish on a fullcrop to suggest end of session

Bird i have seen flown twice often are badly behaved in the hood, either winging up or bating!

which i hate almost as much as birds that have been fed throu the hood and pull at the perch or glove constantly

Id agree with some of this post ,but not all , gamehawking is quite demanding , so often with my own falcons flying once is enough , although i do occasionally put them up twice , the second time though is never quite as good as the first , either in height or performance , however ive not seen any evidence ever of badly behaved falcons in the hood through multi flying ! , also feeding through the hood as contentious as it is , can be very usefull with gyrs or very high% gyrs , in keeping them calm during initial training , as they are very prone to asper , however , once they have been taken through this stage the hood feeding completely stops ,for the next few days to a week they do indeed grab at the glove when hooded , but this stops , and they soon realise that theres no longer a reward , if a falcon persists beyond a few days ,i put a stick to the glove so every time he comes down he bites the wood , believe me they stop and rapidly ...to ans the origional question , my birds are fed and flown once only to the lure , but with gamehawks once they learn to get real pitch ,, i let them mount when i consider they are high enough i throw the lure out and they drop to it , no stooping , if however they do not atain any real height ,then they are made to stoop and work,...thus encouraging height....


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh223/cnjtaylor/fabout005-1.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh223/cnjtaylor/fabout014.jpg

[Dave Johnson]

These last 3 posts from Whitetail are excellent,informative and easily understood.You should write a book.A lot of people make a mountain out of a molehill and confuse matters worse than when they started.You haven't.:supz:

[SkyGod]

These last 3 posts from Whitetail are excellent,informative and easily understood.You should write a book.A lot of people make a mountain out of a molehill and confuse matters worse than when they started.You haven't.:supz:

i agree

[Greg]

[QUOTE=Whitetail;1048425]I have been lucky enough to practise falconry in the far corners of this earth
so haggards have been played with

With regards to the time table its based on

"unless you have failed the bird by moving either to fast or failed to explain whats wanted to the bird."

OK Dr Dolittle,
Having explained exactly to your HAGGARD falcon what you want it to do do you expect to be able to stick to the same timetable as your captive bred parent reared bird? Just to throw you time table into the mix just a little more is you imprint falcon to follow the same timetable? I agree that calling to the lure once during training is enough and is what I usually do. This does not preclude multiple flights once trained. Birds behaving badly when hooded is generally down to one of two things, poor training and handling when hooding or a badly fitting hood. Birds flown to a strict routine expecting to be flown a certain time just sounds like display birds and not birds that are flown in the field where everyday is different and a slip cannot be found to order. A good game hawk will fly more than once and give a good account for it's self if a good length of time is left between flights.

[CJTaylor]

These last 3 posts from Whitetail are excellent,informative and easily understood.You should write a book.A lot of people make a mountain out of a molehill and confuse matters worse than when they started.You haven't.:supz:
Well not sure on your experience but i do hope all especially new to it take it as fact , a bird unruly in the hood is not as a result of multi flights , not in my experience , when hooded a falcon thats correctly managed and with a correct fitting hood should be quiet , any cases of the missbehaviour are often due to other factors ! , who has made a moutain from a mole hill :roll: , when you make a post to make things clear ( not complicated quote ) you must first be correct...? your being supported also by someone whos flown 9 different birds in 8 seasons , no continuity anywhere!! ! so how can people get real advice, id say Gregs post above is pretty accurate , and this by a guy who spends 4 months a year multi flying falcons in america....and probably has done for 30years....so to the origional question asker , pm Greg , he will be invaluable and has far more relevant experience to give you sound advice...colin

[WhiteTail]

[QUOTE=Whitetail;1048425]I have been lucky enough to practise falconry in the far corners of this earth
so haggards have been played with

With regards to the time table its based on

"unless you have failed the bird by moving either to fast or failed to explain whats wanted to the bird."

OK Dr Dolittle,
Having explained exactly to your HAGGARD falcon what you want it to do do you expect to be able to stick to the same timetable as your captive bred parent reared bird? Just to throw you time table into the mix just a little more is you imprint falcon to follow the same timetable? I agree that calling to the lure once during training is enough and is what I usually do. This does not preclude multiple flights once trained. Birds behaving badly when hooded is generally down to one of two things, poor training and handling when hooding or a badly fitting hood. Birds flown to a strict routine expecting to be flown a certain time just sounds like display birds and not birds that are flown in the field where everyday is different and a slip cannot be found to order. A good game hawk will fly more than once and give a good account for it's self if a good length of time is left between flights.

This is why i asked about if you had a routine or a lack of one
as a line of cause for the birds i have seen
On the line of Haggards i tend not to fly them daily, prefering to keep them unfit, they are more inclined to wait on taking an easy option rather than checking off (somewot off topic there)
much depends on what potential quarry is within sight
In some areas you were so lucky to find game, that checking is rare

I fail to see how imprints are in this table as we both know the training of them is worlds apart,

It would be very interesting to break down our training of falcons to very small detail & reflect on the differences in both the birds, results & behaviour
But as you saw from my last posts.. i was up late. 3am.. and still have a lot to do
But we will chat further, as it can only better open our eyes.

Push me.. pull u ;-)

[Greg]

I really do think we are all singing from the same sheet just have to sort out the tune!

[quote=Greg;1048677]

This is why i asked about if you had a routine or a lack of one
as a line of cause for the birds i have seen
On the line of Haggards i tend not to fly them daily, prefering to keep them unfit, they are more inclined to wait on taking an easy option rather than checking off (somewot off topic there)
much depends on what potential quarry is within sight
In some areas you were so lucky to find game, that checking is rare

I fail to see how imprints are in this table as we both know the training of them is worlds apart,

It would be very interesting to break down our training of falcons to very small detail & reflect on the differences in both the birds, results & behaviour
But as you saw from my last posts.. i was up late. 3am.. and still have a lot to do
But we will chat further, as it can only better open our eyes.

Push me.. pull u ;-)

[Greg]

No on reflection the tune is OK its the words we need to sort out!

[WhiteTail]

No on reflection the tune is OK its the words we need to sort out!

lol.. yeah

[Flash]

yea i give half at each flight