Disgrace to our sport

[Summers]

hello to all decent falconers i was wondering if any one.
else has read the daily mirror on page 37 about the disgraceful mr kenneth lea.
he supplied the owls on the recent harry potter film.
well he was found to keep birds of prey in squalid conditions the rspca investigated him and found birds emaciated and foot injuries and swollen beaks.
he has admitted 17 offences of animal cruelty we of our sport can only hope he gets the justice he so deserves.
and not be allowed to keep any animals for the rest of his life.
i would be interested to here what any else thinks of this i for one felt how could any one do this it makes me sick if he couldnt look after these lovely birds of prey why didnt he ask some one for help instead of letting them suffer well done to the rspca for acting so quick thank you from all the decent people who keep birds of prey.

[FireAsh123]

nope, wouldnt sorry dont read the mirror:yawinkle:

[FalconMistress]

hello to all decent falconers i was wondering if any one.
else has read the daily mirror on page 37 about the disgraceful mr kenneth lea.
he supplied the owls on the recent harry potter film.
well he was found to keep birds of prey in squalid conditions the rspca investigated him and found birds emaciated and foot injuries and swollen beaks.
he has admitted 17 offences of animal cruelty we of our sport can only hope he gets the justice he so deserves.
and not be allowed to keep any animals for the rest of his life.
i would be interested to here what any else thinks of this i for one felt how could any one do this it makes me sick if he couldnt look after these lovely birds of prey why didnt he ask some one for help instead of letting them suffer well done to the rspca for acting so quick thank you from all the decent people who keep birds of prey.

I am not an RSPCA fan and in my opinion they are a bunch of hippocrates and my worry would be they will be put in alomst as bad housing as the previous place! The shame of this matter is the guy must have earnt a good few bob making these films and that person refused to put money into these birds! However the article which i have not read most likely does falconry no favours! It is sickening how some people buy birds with in most cases start of something good but never manage to make good because of lack of knowledge with refusal to ask for help and respect to the animals. I believe this guy knew what he was doing, he knew he could earn a quick buck and keep his birds in poor cheap conditions! I hope he gets a huge fine along with a 5 year ban at least.

ATB
Sophie

[HallBeck]

Just copied this from the Mirror website

Harry Potter bird man guilty


http://images.mirror.co.uk/design/transparent.gif
http://images.mirror.co.uk/design/transparent.gif
11/04/2009 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/04/11/)
A falconer whose owls were used in a Harry Potter film kept birds of prey in filthy and squalid conditions, a court was told.
Rspca officers raided a farm property and found emaciated owls, falcons and hawks, some with foot injuries and swollen beaks.
Kenneth Lea, 50, had nine eagle owls which featured in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
Lea, now of Bradford, admitted 17 animal cruelty charges before Wakefield magistrates. He will be sentenced next month..

[Alf]

Never seen a swollen beak that’s a new one to me?

Aren’t most hawks emaciated at start weight to some extent?.

foot injuries well I cant comment on that although even the best of the best who keep hawks still might get the odd problem now and then.

Squalid conditions I just cleaned my hawks feeding platform the one he likes to pluck and take food to only a couple of weeks ago you would think its never be touched.

Don’t know the facts but the RSPCA will blow everything out of proportion and that’s a fact!

Alf.

[FalconMistress]

Never seen a swollen beak that’s a new one to me?

Aren’t most hawks emaciated at start weight to some extent?.

foot injuries well I cant comment on that although even the best of the best who keep hawks still might get the odd problem now and then.

Squalid conditions I just cleaned my hawks feeding platform the one he likes to pluck and take food to only a couple of weeks ago you would think its never be touched.

Don’t know the facts but the RSPCA will blow everything out of proportion and that’s a fact!

Alf.

That is another problem! No one likes to interfer with birds especially this time of year! News papers best bit of fiction ever :roll:

[Moritz]

That is another problem! No one likes to interfer with birds especially this time of year! News [apers best bit of fiction ever :roll:

This case was quite bad though. I have seen his place before it got bad and even than it was boarderline. So when it got worth it must have been realy bad. I know some of the people that have the birds now and they are certainly of better.

Moritz

[Alf]

Probably the truth but I would take what the RSPCA has to say with a pinch of salt. Alf.


This case was quite bad though. I have seen his place before it got bad and even than it was boarderline. So when it got worth it must have been realy bad. I know some of the people that have the birds now and they are certainly of better.

Moritz

[Moritz]

Probably the truth but I would take what the RSPCA has to say with a pinch of salt. Alf.

I do not believe a word they are saying, the RSPCA can not be trusted one bit, but I believe the falconers that had seen the place just before it was shut down.

Moritz

[Summers]

thanks for all your comments about this subject its nice to here the birds are in better hands.
your veiws on subject were interesting to find out what other people thought about the way the rspca handle such matters good or bad.
thank you all for taking time to write about the subject.
thanks andy

[Tim Laycock]

Don’t know the facts but the RSPCA will blow everything out of proportion and that’s a fact!

Alf.

Take it from one of the two falconers who were on site the day of the raid, dealing with things before the RSPCA were even called in.
For once the RSPCA (Im no fan!!) have no need to blow anything up, The bare facts more than sufficient in this case

I have never seen birds in such 5h1t order in my life and hope never to again!
Sights. sounds and smells from the raid will stay with me forever!!
Grown men cried that day over the things they saw.

[Dayglo]

I am not an RSPCA fan and in my opinion they are a bunch of hippocrates and my worry would be they will be put in alomst as bad housing as the previous place! The shame of this matter is the guy must have earnt a good few bob making these films and that person refused to put money into these birds! However the article which i have not read most likely does falconry no favours! It is sickening how some people buy birds with in most cases start of something good but never manage to make good because of lack of knowledge with refusal to ask for help and respect to the animals. I believe this guy knew what he was doing, he knew he could earn a quick buck and keep his birds in poor cheap conditions! I hope he gets a huge fine along with a 5 year ban at least.

ATB
Sophie
....

[Dayglo]

I do not believe a word they are saying, the RSPCA can not be trusted one bit, but I believe the falconers that had seen the place just before it was shut down.

Moritz

Personally I doubt anything printed in the Mirror. Remember its not about informing and educating the public, its about selling papers. Or helping swing elections!

TB

[Dave Johnson]

Take it from one of the two falconers who were on site the day of the raid, dealing with things before the RSPCA were even called in.
For once the RSPCA (Im no fan!!) have no need to blow anything up, The bare facts more than sufficient in this case

I have never seen birds in such 5h1t order in my life and hope never to again!
Sights. sounds and smells from the raid will stay with me forever!!
Grown men cried that day over the things they saw.

This sounds absolutley horrendous

[Moritz]

Take it from one of the two falconers who were on site the day of the raid, dealing with things before the RSPCA were even called in.
For once the RSPCA (Im no fan!!) have no need to blow anything up, The bare facts more than sufficient in this case

I have never seen birds in such 5h1t order in my life and hope never to again!
Sights. sounds and smells from the raid will stay with me forever!!
Grown men cried that day over the things they saw.

Tim why don't you put up some of the pics of the peregrine that was taken? How is she doing by the way?

Mo

[YorkHawk]

Take it from one of the two falconers who were on site the day of the raid, dealing with things before the RSPCA were even called in.
For once the RSPCA (Im no fan!!) have no need to blow anything up, The bare facts more than sufficient in this case

I have never seen birds in such 5h1t order in my life and hope never to again!
Sights. sounds and smells from the raid will stay with me forever!!
Grown men cried that day over the things they saw.

Thats good enough for me!
It must have been bad
Greg

[Tim Laycock]

Tim why don't you put up some of the pics of the peregrine that was taken? How is she doing by the way?

Mo

Moritz,
I will post some photographs as they do not relate to the charges currently being brought against Mr Kenneth Lee. They do however show perfectly the level of neglect that had become the standard at Old Park Farm.

These photos show a Falcon that was rescued and treated by KJL and myself. this particular rescue took place a few months before the raid.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08011.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08033.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08021.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08030.jpg

[Tim Laycock]

More
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08031.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08032.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08017.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08014.jpg

[Tim Laycock]

More
quote=Tim Laycock;44879]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08015.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08019.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08025.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08028.jpg
[/quote]

[Tim Laycock]

Enough??
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/horror%20story/blackpool08029.jpg

[Tim Laycock]

Tim why don't you put up some of the pics of the peregrine that was taken? How is she doing by the way?

Mo

Moritz,
Unfortunatly this falcon passed away recently of issues unrelated to her foot condition.

Thankfully she got to spend her last twelve months interacting with someone who understood her imprint behaviours and she got to do it on feet like this instead of what she had!!

Cassidy :heart:


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/everythingandeveryone002.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/everythingandeveryone003.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/everythingandeveryone004.jpg

[Kentish Falconry]

Looking at these pic's I can only say well done Karl & Tim and the RSPCA the owner should be banned for life for letting this go and not seeking veterinary assistance perhaps we should petition the Courts and let them know what Falconers think of this kind of conduct. All it can do at present is show all Falconers in a bad light and we should have our say on matters like this.
Terry

[K.Massey]

Looking at these pic's I can only say well done Karl & Tim

Totally agree Terry....I was shocked when some thought it a good opportunity to have a CHEEP!! pop at these two for helping out:roll:

[Gary F]

yes well done Tim and Karl,,, bloody horrid pics,

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Absolutely disgusting!!

I just showed Mark these pictures and he said this has happened to him but in the complete reversed way...
In 1984/85 the RSPB confiscated his peregrines who were at that time in immaculate condition, a year after when the case had been to court the court ordered all birds to be returned to Mark since the whole thing was a set up by the RSPB/DOE, the pictures here shows exactly what the birds looked like when they were brought back from the RSPB and it took Andrew Greenwood over a year to get them right, DOE paid for all the treatment, funnely enough though The RSPB was never done for animal cruelty...
sorry, slightly off topic, but also disgraceful!

[K.Massey]

yes well done Tim and Karl,,, bloody horrid pics,

And they are only a fraction of he story:cry:

[Alf]

Tim Pleased you were there that’s shocking!
No excuse for this sort of neglect that’s for sure. Alf.

[HallBeck]

Surely the RSPCA should be being praised here for stepping in and helping these birds?

The RSPCA does have its faults - however it provides a very valuable service at no cost to the tax payer.

Much of the RSPCAs work involves wild animals - they work with many falconers and keepers of other animal species outside of the RSPCA to rehabilitate these creatures.

Sara - i guess you know that the RSPB and the RSPCA aren't the same thing? Can't be easy for a Swede keeping up with all these English acronyms!

[Summers]

first of all may i indead praise everyone who took the time to care for these birds well done to them.
the pictures show just how bad the conditions were for them and how with a lot of tlc how some of the birds were nursed back to a healthy condition when i wrote this thread i didnt think it would get such a response.
i cant thank you all enough for the response and time you all have taken to read and write about this issue.
thank you everyone from andy.

[Liam Hay]

I have also seen first hand the state of how Ken Lea kept his birds, i am pleased that the RSPCA acted on such information passed to them and have seen through the conviction.

Liam

Well done to Tim for helping out and helping those birds, some of which never stood a chance!

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Truly revolting photos Tim, excellent outcome however.

Personally I think it is a crying shame that animal welfare essentially rests in the hands of a charity. That is the true disgrace.

[David Rampling]

Shocking pics. Well done all involved, cant have been easy.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Surely the RSPCA should be being praised here for stepping in and helping these birds?

The RSPCA does have its faults - however it provides a very valuable service at no cost to the tax payer.

Much of the RSPCAs work involves wild animals - they work with many falconers and keepers of other animal species outside of the RSPCA to rehabilitate these creatures.

Sara - i guess you know that the RSPB and the RSPCA aren't the same thing? Can't be easy for a Swede keeping up with all these English acronyms!

Dont patronise me mate ;), I know very well what the difference is, as i said my post was slightly off topic.......:D

[HallBeck]

Dont patronise me mate ;), I know very well what the difference is, as i said my post was slightly off topic.......:D

Sorry - it was a bit patronising wasn't it - wasn't meant to be though!

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Sorry - it was a bit patronising wasn't it - wasn't meant to be though!

Dont worry, just pulling your legs, there of the smilys

[KJL]

The conditions that we encountered there will stay with me till the grave. The initial post is inacurate in the details it contains though this is irrelivant. His user name here is HawkEyeUK.

[KJL]

He is also monitoring this site. Could we please remove him from the user list as he's no falconer. A true marhawk..

[Tim Laycock]

The conditions that we encountered there will stay with me till the grave. The initial post is inacurate in the details it contains though this is irrelivant. His user name here is HawkEyeUK.

He is also monitoring this site. Could we please remove him from the user list as he's no falconer. A true marhawk..

Glad you saw this dude,
I couldnt remember the username

[KJL]

Cruel quent needs karma to catch him.

[Dave G]

glad you guys got hold of the poor falcon how anyone could leave a bird in such a state is beyond me :(

[KJL]

Totally agree Terry....I was shocked when some thought it a good opportunity to have a CHEEP!! pop at these two for helping out:roll:
Not Forgoten Kev.

[Tim Laycock]

glad you guys got hold of the poor falcon how anyone could leave a bird in such a state is beyond me :(

Tip of the iceberg Dave!

[K.Massey]

He is also monitoring this site. Could we please remove him from the user list as he's no falconer. A true marhawk..

Let him Read what we have to say....the low life!!

[K.Massey]

glad you guys got hold of the poor falcon how anyone could leave a bird in such a state is beyond me :(

These pictures only tell a tiny bit of the story.... This was one that was worth trying to save....you could only imagine what the pictures would be like of them that were beyond saving

[K.Massey]

Not Forgoten Kev.

I hope not.....from such a so called respect falconer and now forum member..... wonder if the balls are big enough to speak out on this thread as they are behind backs ay:roll:

[K.Massey]

Tip of the iceberg Dave!

Did'nt get to your reply before adding mine soz

[Gary F]

These pictures only tell a tiny bit of the story.... This was one that was worth trying to save....you could only imagine what the pictures would be like of them that were beyond saving
can imagine kev,,dont think id like to see them,,,why wouldnt anyone slag tim and karl off for doing a great job,,????

[KJL]

I hope not.....from such a so called respect falconer and now forum member..... wonder if the balls are big enough to speak out on this thread as they are behind backs ay:roll:

Not a chance Kev. Its a case of having the ego, and mouth, but not the minerals. Every dog has his day though mate, you and a welshman told me that many times at the last festival

[Dave G]

i was sickend by that poor falcons foot so hate to think what the other were like ,hope he never owns another bird or animal sounds like he needs a good slap ;)

[Pearl]

well dont to tim and karl on what they did in what cant have been easy to go into

[KJL]

i was sickend by that poor falcons foot so hate to think what the other were like ,hope he never owns another bird or animal sounds like he needs a good slap ;)

Let the courts deal with it, we have had to remain silent until now due to the ongoing legal case. Even as Kev stated earlier having to suffer the slings and arrows of petty small minded peers.

[KJL]

These pictures only tell a tiny bit of the story.... This was one that was worth trying to save....you could only imagine what the pictures would be like of them that were beyond saving

An imprint Lanner falcons condition broke my heart Kev.

[Dave G]

well im glad hes going to court and just hope he gets whats coming to him in the boiler room ;) and once again top lads for stepping in and saving all the birds from this muppet ;)

[K.Massey]

can imagine kev,,dont think id like to see them,,,why wouldnt anyone slag tim and karl off for doing a great job,,????

Gary you would be right shocked on who says what it trying to discredit someone and to have a cheep shot attacking there intentions at the time when it was the pair of them that were contacted in the first place to help out beggars belief....now I know people clash and just don't get on its life.....but some of the cheapest of the cheep shots were way out of order and I am surprised those on the listening end of it all didn't tell this certain person where to go:!:

[K.Massey]

An imprint Lanner falcons condition broke my heart Kev.

What do you reacon he will get for causing all this suffereing?

[Kentish Falconry]

I hope not.....from such a so called respect falconer and now forum member..... wonder if the balls are big enough to speak out on this thread as they are behind backs ay:roll:

He won't be able to answer any of this now as I banned him for life we don't need people like that on this Forum and I hope all the other Forums will also see it the same way
Terry :evil:

[KJL]

What do you reacon he will get for causing all this suffereing?

I am lead to believe that there is the strong possibility of a cusdtodial term.

[KJL]

He won't be able to answer any of this now as I banned him for life we don't need people like that on this Forum and I hope all the other Forums will also see it the same way
Terry :evil:

Different person to the accused Terry. He knows who he is as he keeps checking the thread.

[K.Massey]

I am lead to believe that there is the strong possibility of a cusdtodial term.

GOOD

[Dayglo]

What do you reacon he will get for causing all this suffereing?

Do you mean from the Court or in the months/years to come when people get to discuss his husbandry with him?

TB

[Tommy No Mates]

hi m8, well name and shame, dont let people blame the wrong one.


Different person to the accused Terry. He knows who he is as he keeps checking the thread.

[K.Massey]

Do you mean from the Court or in the months/years to come when people get to discuss his husbandry with him?

TB

Yes the courts...I would hope his future husbandry will not be an issue as he should be banned for life from keeping any animals... right down to a hamster:supz:

[K.Massey]

hi m8, well name and shame, .

Tempting...however I would not want to be the one that will end up giving my friends that help out on the mod team a head ache..... but needless to say this is a member that is blatantly using another members membership and getting away with it...when it is being preached no one is allowed to use others accounts and member are only to have one account....Maybe being a forum sponsor voids you from this:rolleyes:

[Hawkmaster]

Well speak up and name it to the team by PM all these critic messages make no sense:rolleyes:

[K.Massey]

Well speak up and name it to the team by PM all these critic messages make no sense:rolleyes:

Admin knows Paul;)

[Hawkmaster]

I dont!

And if I did I would have seen if something can be done about it, but the little messages I have had say nothing or point a finger at nobody:wink:

[Chrisy]

after seeing those pics i felt sick, ppl who treat any animal in that way should get a minimum life term in prizon, its shocking how some ppl can turn there backs on animals that suffer like that its as if they think it doesnt feel pain but they do and that makes it worse:confused:

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Tempting...however I would not want to be the one that will end up giving my friends that help out on the mod team a head ache..... but needless to say this is a member that is blatantly using another members membership and getting away with it...when it is being preached no one is allowed to use others accounts and member are only to have one account....Maybe being a forum sponsor voids you from this:rolleyes:

Well who the F is it???????
You can always PM one of us....

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Let him Read what we have to say....the low life!!

Can someone put it in black and white please what this person have done? Its all so cryptic, dont name him/her just what exactly has he/she done??

[K.Massey]

just what exactly has he/she done??

A member of this forum done nothing at the time of the bust on this place but to insinuate that Tim and Karl's only involvement was selfish...They had purposively taken all the "good stuff" for themselves this was not true...there intent was questioned and even the facts on how thy got involved was distorted to the max...Facts are they done the right thing in agreeing to help out the rspca/b who ever and they were not the ones that approached them to offer help....they did not take on all the "good stuff" as you can see from a slight section of this thread................Its shocking that this person didn't step up to the plate and what I-M-O was totally wrong and out of order was to go one further and take the time to try and discredit them that helped:rolleyes:

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

A member of this forum done nothing at the time of the bust on this place but to insinuate that Tim and Karl's only involvement was selfish...They had purposively taken all the "good stuff" for themselves this was not true...there intent was questioned and even the facts on how thy got involved was distorted to the max...Facts are they done the right thing in agreeing to help out the rspca/b who ever and they were not the ones that approached them to offer help....they did not take on all the "good stuff" as you can see from a slight section of this thread................Its shocking that this person didn't step up to the plate and what I-M-O was totally wrong and out of order was to go one further and take the time to try and discredit them that helped:rolleyes:

Kev
You know as well as I do that there is more then one side to every story, I also heard around the grape wine similar things, such as Karl worked for Ken and did his AI for a year without minding the birds condition, but then later help with the raid after they had fallen out...
This was said to me by a forum member, but how can I ban someone from here for something that been said in real life? Its a fine line to walk....
Best thing to do is just to leave it me thinks, anyway I have brought it to admins attention and will leave it to their hands...

[K.Massey]

Kev
You know as well as I do that there is more then one side to every story,

Agreed and this is an open thread to all:supz:

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Agreed and this is an open thread to all:supz:

It is indeed....:supz:

[KJL]

Agreed and this is an open thread to all:supz:

I would agree with that.

[SSL]

but needless to say this is a member that is blatantly using another members membership and getting away with it...when it is being preached no one is allowed to use others accounts and member are only to have one account....Maybe being a forum sponsor voids you from this:rolleyes:

Must be Kev, because it doesnt just happen with the user/person you are talking of, it happens with another breeder too. :yawinkle:

[Ben C]

Top bombing Laycock and Leadly.

[Kentish Falconry]

Must be Kev, because it doesnt just happen with the user/person you are talking of, it happens with another breeder too. :yawinkle:

If you have a complaint then please PM the details to me and I will look at it.
If we are in the dark how do you expect us to deal with it
Terry :)

[Kentish Falconry]

Different person to the accused Terry. He knows who he is as he keeps checking the thread.

Karl as you know I am fully aware of who you are talking about but at this stage there is little I can do about it as it was not said on this Forum.
I banned the offender who unless the Courts find him not Guilty is now banned for life, we have also uncovered another user name that he was using and that has been merged into a banned name so he is still banned.
What you and Tim did was to make the best of a very bad situation and I am sorry you had to get involved in the first place and this Moron had taken better care of his birds and this situation had never arisen in the first place but it did and without the help of you and Tim many other birds would have suffered further mistreatment
Terry

[KJL]

Kev
You know as well as I do that there is more then one side to every story, I also heard around the grape wine similar things, such as Karl worked for Ken and did his AI for a year without minding the birds condition, but then later help with the raid after they had fallen out...
This was said to me by a forum member, but how can I ban someone from here for something that been said in real life? Its a fine line to walk....
Best thing to do is just to leave it me thinks, anyway I have brought it to admins attention and will leave it to their hands...

A nice version you've been supplied with there Sara. I was approached mid season 2007 to help Ken not work for him. I decided that it was in the interests of the raptors on site for me to do so. It was blatantly obvious as has been stated by two of your previous employees on forums that the guy needed help, but his ego was too big to ask for any.
I could possibly have benefited in the long run this i have never tried to or wanted to hide.
Once it was apparent the owner had no intention to improve or regard for the welfare and upkeep of the raptors on site I ceased any and all association.
I was contacted at a later date to be on hand at the eviction of Mr Lee, as it was suspected raptors may be left on site and the council would be liable for the after care.
The attrosities throughout the facility were beyond compare to anything I saw in the imprint falcon pens that I had access to for a few weeks a year earlier.
The falcon myself and Tim bought out of the place after a tip off that she was still suffering has been all over the forums. Its feet were infected but nowhere near the state we received her in the year after. It is now proven fact that the owner denied any medical treatment.

Both yourself and Mark had been on that site since I had, and had business dealings with Mr Lee, why did you not try to point things in the right direction once again? As you say there are two sides to every story, the one above outlines the facts.

[KJL]

Karl as you know I am fully aware of who you are talking about but at this stage there is little I can do about it as it was not said on this Forum.
I banned the offender who unless the Courts find him not Guilty is now banned for life, we have also uncovered another user name that he was using and that has been merged into a banned name so he is still banned.
What you and Tim did was to make the best of a very bad situation and I am sorry you had to get involved in the first place and this Moron had taken better care of his birds and this situation had never arisen in the first place but it did and without the help of you and Tim many other birds would have suffered further mistreatment
Terry

Yes Terry it was said on the forum, which then lead to a heated conversation the next day with Phil an associate of Chris Southern's (The person who posted under the name Black Falcon). He (Phil) apparently wasnt happy that a Harris in vocal had been sent to him as he would have housed a falcon. I reported the matter at the time and a thread clean up happened much later at admins leisure.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

A nice version you've been supplied with there Sara. I was approached mid season 2007 to help Ken not work for him. I decided that it was in the interests of the raptors on site for me to do so. It was blatantly obvious as has been stated by two of your previous employees on forums that the guy needed help, but his ego was too big to ask for any.
I could possibly have benefited in the long run this i have never tried to or wanted to hide.
Once it was apparent the owner had no intention to improve or regard for the welfare and upkeep of the raptors on site I ceased any and all association.
I was contacted at a later date to be on hand at the eviction of Mr Lee, as it was suspected raptors may be left on site and the council would be liable for the after care.
The attrosities throughout the facility were beyond compare to anything I saw in the imprint falcon pens that I had access to for a few weeks a year earlier.
The falcon myself and Tim bought out of the place after a tip off that she was still suffering has been all over the forums. Its feet were infected but nowhere near the state we received her in the year after. It is now proven fact that the owner denied any medical treatment.

Both yourself and Mark had been on that site since I had, and had business dealings with Mr Lee, why did you not try to point things in the right direction once again? As you say there are two sides to every story, the one above outlines the facts.

I was merely pointing out to Kev that if I were to ban every person who slagged you off about this story then where should I draw the line??
That was one of the things I had been told off a forum member, not saying thats MY version of events....
Dont be so p r i c k l y Karl, you have nothing to hide.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Yes Terry it was said on the forum, which then lead to a heated conversation the next day with Phil an associate of Chris Southern's (The person who posted under the name Black Falcon). He (Phil) apparently wasnt happy that a Harris in need of care had been sent to him as he would have 'prefered a falcon'. I reported the matter at the time and a thread clean up happened much later at admins leisure.

I never saw anything of this, when was that??

[KJL]

Open book me Sara! The intention of my previous post was not to discredit or slight yourself or Mark. Mr Southern however has not got the spine to admit that he was wrong, and offer a simple public apology in response to his public attack. It's a pattern that many can attest to in his ongoing vendeta.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Open book me Sara! The intention of my previous post was not to discredit or slight yourself or Mark. Mr Southern however has not got the spine to admit that he was wrong, and offer a simple public apology in response to his public attack. It's a pattern that many can attest to in his ongoing vendeta.

I honest to god have no idea what chris has/has not said, I just now found the thread that you were talking about.
I am not trying to discredit anyone karl, but some cans of worms are better off left unopened, there is far to much gossip going around and no one can verify the facts, which leaves people to believe what they want, and that is normally far away from the truth.

Kens birds were saved, who did what and who did not and for whos benefit really does not matter, the main thing is that the birds are better off.
I do find it very enoying that the authoritys had been told several times about the condition the birds were kept and done f all about it, they had even visited him and not battered an eyelid, it was not until they needed a way to kick him out of the farm (as he refused to leave) that he got raided, the birds walfare was not at the foremost of the authoritys, then thay should have acted when they were first informed about the state of the place......and not just when they wanted him off the farm...

[KJL]

I never saw anything of this, when was that??

At the time of the original thread the aftercare and medical care of the raptors on site was still ongoing. Mr Southern chose the first days of the cruelty case to post,claiming that my only intent was to line my mews with the hawks from the facility and that they would be very much poorer for it. I have constantly refused to discuss the man as I have found his underhanded ways and dealings abhorrent.

[KJL]

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48456&highlight=RSPCA


That was the original thread. Notice post 13 after hawkmaster had to edit the thread due to Southerns unfounded accusations.

[Marra]

Dear Mr JKL, as much as it irritates me to have to reply to your post’s concerning me as I have a thousand things I would rather be doing, I feel I have to just clarify one or two points in the interest of fair play and decency.
Firstly, your opinion of me is of no concern or interest to me what so ever, however your insinuated slandering of my good friend Phil Turner is another thing. In the years I have known Phil, I have found him to be honest, decent and a loyal friend, and I know he is very anxious to discus your post with you in person, as you seem unable to answer his many phone calls.
Also, it does not take having a spine to know when one is in the wrong and put it right, just simple honesty and integrity.
To which, I would like to apologize unreservedly if any thing I have ever written or said may have suggested to anyone, that Tim Laycock’s involvement with these birds, was driven by anything other than an unselfish desire to relieve the undoubted suffering of the birds in this unfortunate situation.
In the time I have known Tim I have always found him to be honest, upstanding and a decent guy.
I am more than willing to discus anything you wish with you in person, I never say anything about anyone that I would not say to their face.
I am not in the habit of spreading unfounded or malicious rumors, unfortunately the same does not appear to be true of your self as I know of several people who are anxious to talk with you about a number of allegations you have made regarding their character.
This will be the only word I have on this subject on the forum, any further discussions will be made in person.


Chris Southern

[VerticalStoop]

Bang on Chris,

It amazes me, every year a breeder gets bashed. For what reason I don't know but it always seems to happen. I guess It's Chris and Bryn's turn this year:roll: Unfounded. I have always found Chris to be a top bloke and meeting Bryn last year for the 1st time will say the same. Along with the other sponsors on this forum they do a massive amount for the IFF.

KJL's comments are unfair and unfounded.

IMPO Regards VS
Dear Mr JKL, as much as it irritates me to have to reply to your post’s concerning me as I have a thousand things I would rather be doing, I feel I have to just clarify one or two points in the interest of fair play and decency.
Firstly, your opinion of me is of no concern or interest to me what so ever, however your insinuated slandering of my good friend Phil Turner is another thing. In the years I have known Phil, I have found him to be honest, decent and a loyal friend, and I know he is very anxious to discus your post with you in person, as you seem unable to answer his many phone calls.
Also, it does not take having a spine to know when one is in the wrong and put it right, just simple honesty and integrity.
To which, I would like to apologize unreservedly if any thing I have ever written or said may have suggested to anyone, that Tim Laycock’s involvement with these birds, was driven by anything other than an unselfish desire to relieve the undoubted suffering of the birds in this unfortunate situation.
In the time I have known Tim I have always found him to be honest, upstanding and a decent guy.
I am more than willing to discus anything you wish with you in person, I never say anything about anyone that I would not say to their face.
I am not in the habit of spreading unfounded or malicious rumors, unfortunately the same does not appear to be true of your self as I know of several people who are anxious to talk with you about a number of allegations you have made regarding their character.
This will be the only word I have on this subject on the forum, any further discussions will be made in person.


Chris Southern

[CanadaManada]

hello to all decent falconers i was wondering if any one.
else has read the daily mirror on page 37 about the disgraceful mr kenneth lea.
he supplied the owls on the recent harry potter film.
well he was found to keep birds of prey in squalid conditions the rspca investigated him and found birds emaciated and foot injuries and swollen beaks.
he has admitted 17 offences of animal cruelty we of our sport can only hope he gets the justice he so deserves.
and not be allowed to keep any animals for the rest of his life.
i would be interested to here what any else thinks of this i for one felt how could any one do this it makes me sick if he couldnt look after these lovely birds of prey why didnt he ask some one for help instead of letting them suffer well done to the rspca for acting so quick thank you from all the decent people who keep birds of prey.

Is he a falconer? I don't see how some "owlie" has an effect on falconry. And no, I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out!:roll:

[Ben C]

Is he a falconer? I don't see how some "owlie" has an effect on falconry. And no, I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out!:roll:

He supplied the owls etc to harry potter justin, so even though he is not a 'falconer' he is 'high profile'.

[Kennelre]

Is he a falconer? I don't see how some "owlie" has an effect on falconry. And no, I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out!:roll:

You don't need to read further than post 4 to find the following quote from a daily paper:

A falconer whose owls were used in a Harry Potter film kept birds of prey in filthy and squalid conditions, a court was told.
Rspca officers raided a farm property and found emaciated owls, falcons and hawks....


...Rene.

[GaryPCO]

Is he a falconer? I don't see how some "owlie" has an effect on falconry. And no, I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out!:roll:
then why comment if you dont know the facts of the thread?????

[Graham Stuart]

Is he a falconer? I don't see how some "owlie" has an effect on falconry. And no, I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out!:roll:
If you cant even be @r5ed to read the whole thread why make a stupid coment:twisted:.....Graham

[K.Massey]

Bang on Chris,

It amazes me, every year a breeder gets bashed. For what reason I don't know but it always seems to happen. I guess It's Chris and Bryn's turn this year:roll: Unfounded. I have always found Chris to be a top bloke and meeting Bryn last year for the 1st time will say the same. Along with the other sponsors on this forum they do a massive amount for the IFF.

KJL's comments are unfair and unfounded.

IMPO Regards VS

Have you read the above thread:confused: where do you see breeders getting bashed? Nothing to do with what Chris and Bryn does in fact i would say they are set to excel this season from the feedback they are getting off almost everyone.

I personally have no Axe to grind with Chris and I also know there is no love lost between Chris and Karl....thats falconry.... I did however think it was cheep the way Chris took a shot at Karl (who I myself don't always see eye to eye with)...The posts are gone now so is harder to explain to those that did not read....I would hope we would all offer help if we were asked...but if we do does it mean we have an alternative motive:confused:
I also Know Phil Turner...maybe not that well but he don't strike me as someone that would pick and choose how he helps out also.

What gets me is no matter how much we dislike someone it still shouldn't stop them getting credit when its due... let alone turn it into some thing is ain't:rolleyes:

I sense from Your response Chris you wanted to clear up any thoughts that Tim was included in your original comments...however what you said still stands for Karl?

[David Rampling]

Just as a side note, I hate to see Phil Turners name bandied about when he is not on here to defend himself. He is a very good friend of mine, and a more caring, considerate and decent bloke you could never hope to meet. He would help anyone, and more importantly, any bird in a crisis, without a shadow of a doubt. I respect him greatly, and I wouldnt say that about many.

[K.Massey]

Just as a side note, I hate to see Phil Turners name bandied about when he is not on here to defend himself. He is a very good friend of mine, and a more caring, considerate and decent bloke you could never hope to meet. He would help anyone, and more importantly, any bird in a crisis, without a shadow of a doubt. I respect him greatly, and I wouldnt say that about many.

I totaly agree Dave.... Phil is a decent bloke... My post was not negative to him in the slightest

[David Rampling]

I totaly agree Dave.... Phil is a decent bloke... My post was not negative to him in the slightest

I realise that Kev.

[K.Massey]

I realise that Kev.

Cheers sometimes when you read stuff back in ya head it sounds one way....but to others it may sound different:lol: I just cant for the life of me beleive Phil would prefer to help one hawk/falcon over another......maybe wanting to help both yea

[Paul]

The International Falconry Forum seems to have more backstabbers than the Foro Romano.
Let's see more photos than just one falcon with bumblefoot, please.

[K.Massey]

The International Falconry Forum seems to have more backstabbers than the Foro Romano.
.

I think peoples opinions have been quite open !!!

[PlantBreeder]

I don't know any of these guys from Adam,

BUT...

Time to bury the hatchet, and not in each other's back...
If we don't stick together, and give help wherever/whenever needed,
then we are already done for.

Re the RSPCA,

I know a vermin controller, he has dogs, feeds them on rabbit.
Had a visit from a RSPCA inspector who still had the cradle marks
on his butt. This youngster asks. "What do you feed them on ?"
Answer, "Rabbit, mostly." Youngster, " Can't you buy proper food ?"
Answer, "What do you have in mind." Youngster, " You know, from
the supermarket, comes in tins."

__________________________________

Never leap to conclusions, you might land in the muck.

[Tim Laycock]

The International Falconry Forum seems to have more backstabbers than the Foro Romano.
Let's see more photos than just one falcon with bumblefoot, please.

NO!

You will see not more photographic records, Detailing the attrocities found at Old Park Farm until the court case to which they may relate has been put to bed!!

[FalcoTom]

Was there a post a couple of years back about ken Lea having a Goldie of Berkuts that was returned in a awful state.Or was this on a different forum ?
May be Berkut could ellaborate on this or even if correct pass on the information to the authorities.
Tom.

[Tim Laycock]

Was there a post a couple of years back about ken Lea having a Goldie of Berkuts

No there was not.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Was there a post a couple of years back about ken Lea having a Goldie of Berkuts that was returned in a awful state.Or was this on a different forum ?
May be Berkut could ellaborate on this or even if correct pass on the information to the authorities.
Tom.

No it was not from Ken

[FalcoTom]

No it was not from Ken

Are you sure ?

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Are you sure ?

Absolutely positive

[Tim Laycock]

Yesterday, Mr Kenneth Norman Lee was sentenced to three months imprisonment and in addition to this he received a 5 year ban relating to the keeping of any animals.

[It's Alright Ma]

Yesterday, Mr Kenneth Norman Lee was sentenced to three months imprisonment and in addition to this he received a 5 year ban relating to the keeping of any animals.

An appeal and social enquiry reports now I'd suspect

[K.Massey]

3 weeks inside and 3 weeks on a tag if elligable....otherwise 6 weeks inside:roll: Almoast a crime in its self

[David Rampling]

Nice to see him splashed all over the nationals though. Hopefully he will be ashamed to show his face when he gets out.

[K.Massey]

Is he now banned from the forum !!!

[Ben C]

Is he now banned from the forum !!!

a mod without being a mod......massey your a wonder.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[K.Massey]

a mod without being a mod......massey your a wonder.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Pmsl