Modern falconry?

[ColdZero]

I saw this photo and it made me wonder what changes have happened. If its true that many of those who learn with HH don't move onto goshawks or other more difficult birds, will fewer be bred each year and the whole sport be dominated (even more) by the HH? Will the HH be the whole focus of falconry in 50 years (when all you old ba*****s birth certifcate expire) and things like spars only be flown by a few people?
I don't really know what to think, as the HH isn't a bad bird at all and i don't want this thread to be another debate whether they are ruining falconry because they are not. It would just be a shame if all the new falconers like myself never flew other birds.

[Jastreb]

I would like to own that GARDEN :supz: :supz: !

[Liam Hay]

would like to own that GARDEN !

Y would u want so many????

[MickeyDredd]

would like to own that GARDEN !

Y would u want so many????

maybe he likes the garden :lol: :lol:

[BlackHawke]

i was chatting about this the other day at a bbq with a few mates that breed gos's harris's n redtail's my own personal opinion is that now the harris's are so dam popular people will now be looking toward a different species maybe redtail n gos's as prices for these birds are still reasonable . dunno if any breeders of red's or gos's on the forum have had increased interest in these birds??

personally i would consider a red, main reason is i dont fancy walking miles to get a gos back!!lol plus they r gorgeous lookin birds

[Finnish]

i dont fancy walking miles to get a gos back!!

Why do so many people think this :?: :?:
I have never had to walk miles to get my Gos back, I just call him to the glove. :?

[HawkMan69UK]

i have never had to walk miles to get my Gos back, I just call him to the glove. .............................. :lol: thats because you doing it right lee :lol:

[Bubo]

:lol: :lol:

a lot of peeps here have harris's too and i have heard a lot more say they are not getting one because they are so common, it is the same with the european eagle owls now too. so that is a good point CZ. i will be interested in reading views. who knows all may be converted to owlers :roll: .......ok it was just a thought :wink:

[Goldie]

[quote="Bubointerested in reading views. who knows all may be converted to owlers :roll: .......ok it was just a thought :wink:[/quote]

Yeah right!! this would be better in CZs pointless posts thread :lol: :lol:

You got pms....oops I mean PM :lol:

[ColdZero]

lol goldies right, i don't think you could pay most people to fly an owl :lol:

i think HH are good and all for making falconry popular again, but theres too many people with only just enough knowledge to fly a HH then they are happy with that. The hawk never reaches its full potential. Just seems less people will move onto other birds, or will it be the same number just more falconers?

[Sprout]

To get a HH to fly to its FULL POTENTIAL takes just as much skill as any other bird I believe. True they're easier than most to dabble with but still take the effort and dedication to get a really good hunting bird.

[Goldie]

Most HH never reach their full potential for one simple reason. They are deemed my many as the weekenders bird. As they are probably the only bird that truely falls into that categorie they are most suited to that type of falconer. Not everyone is able to fly other than weekends for one reason or another and hence the reason they choose the HH.
Personally I think the HH can be a fantastic bird if flown to its potential and I know a few guys who fly them to that degree and wouldn't change them for anything.
For what its worth, I think if someone can only fly at weekends if the weather allows then they shouldn't have a bird at all.

Waiting for the sh** to hit the fan :lol:

[Sprout]

Well said Goldie

[Ben C]

Are there actually people who do just fly their hawks on the weekend? I thought that was an urban myth. (I am being serious)

[Goldie]

Are there actually people who do just fly their hawks on the weekend? I thought that was an urban myth. (I am being serious)

Unfortunately YES. And even then its only if the weather is kind.

[Sprout]

Although I suppose that is hypocritical of me! Working all daylight hours in the week does make it difficult but at least I get one afternoon off each week to fly and generally manage to get some flying done at dinner times which is fine for the falcon flying over the partridge but not so for the Harris (resort to lamping each night). Trying to come to a compromise with work for this winter where I consult later at night in exchange for a decent mid-day break to fly.

[ColdZero]

so what do you think the future of falconry is? pretty much the same as now or do you think there wioll be less gos flyers etc?

i agree, people who only have weekends need another hobby, not a new lifestyle

[Ben C]

Sprout: Your a VET.....a little bit different than most people in terms of animal welfare. :)

[Sprout]

My bird can suffer as much as the next persons if I don't put the effort in. Like everyone on here I'd like to be outflying all day/every day rather than working, can't wait until retirement!! The thing I hate about the job is my falconry has suffered the last few years, something I am trying to change.

[BlueHawk]

Absolutely CZ (and others),

Unfortunately there are too many bird keepers out there and not enough falconers. Sadly, I have a mate who took a female harris 4 yrs ago, flies her once or twice a week and gets bored very quickly, so the season is only about 2 or 3 months for the bird. He was talking about getting a gos !?!? Think I've talked him out of it..

I also know someone who keeps a Harris in a bedroom, takes him out fishing and lets him fly home himself and sits him on his shoulder like a parrot. Incidently, he had a buzzard which broke its neck when he let it fly into the living room window (yes, from the inside..)

Which leads me to the question, what can we do, if anything to stop the recreational "falconers"? Have the apprenticeship and exam scheme like the Yanks? Would it even work or be practical? Issue hawking licences?

How about we just shoot the twats? :shock:

[Liam Hay]

talk about bird keepers there was a guy in the paper up here who takes his harris dry stone walling and does'nt fly it ????

[MickeyDredd]

Which leads me to the question, what can we do, if anything to stop the recreational "falconers"? Have the apprenticeship and exam scheme like the Yanks? Would it even work or be practical? Issue hawking licences?

Whilst we all probably detest legislation and restrictions on freedom to do what we want, the licensing way is probably the most effective way forward. Unfortunately I fear there wont be enough experienced falconers willing to devote the time to train a beginner for two years (hopefully they could separate the twats from the genuine, responsible enthusiast and therefore stop idiots getting into the sport - I believe an idiot is always an idiot so should be able to spot them).

One other controversial idea could be a restriction on breeders i.e. basic supply and demand would weed out many of the "bird keepers". e.g. if there weren't as many harris breeders the price would be much higher and would stop the muppits who buy birds cos they are cheap from taking that step, this is perhaps one of the reasons these people buy harrises rather than a gos, not just because they are "easier".

I know a bird keeper who has 17 birds - he doesnt fly any of them and has hawks, falcons and owls -, many of which are pegged out 24/7 on the lawn, he's lost a few and killed a few and he has only paid for about 5 of them - he's only got 17 birds cos they cost him ****** all!

ps with so many Gos breeders now using AI to maximise clutches and reduce accidents, will the price for a Gos fall to a level where we will start seeing the muppits "moving up" to this species next? Scary thought :roll:

[Goldie]

Which leads me to the question, what can we do, if anything to stop the recreational "falconers"? Have the apprenticeship and exam scheme like the Yanks? Would it even work or be practical? Issue hawking licences?
:

Unfortunately not a lot I'm afraid.
The big problem is that HH are cheap to buy and all manner of ********s want one. I used to think that a licence at a cost of several hundred pounds which you had to buy before you got a bird and had to be shown to the breeder and co-signed at time of purchase would be a deterent to those who only wanted a bird as a pet. The drawback to that of course is that there are many excellent falconers who may not be able to lay out that sort of cash and they would be the ones to suffer unfairly.

[Bubo]

[quote="Bubointerested in reading views. who knows all may be converted to owlers :roll: .......ok it was just a thought :wink:

Yeah right!! this would be better in CZs pointless posts thread :lol: :lol:

You got pms....oops I mean PM :lol:[/quote]

:lol: :lol: cheers goldie :wink:

[ColdZero]

i don't think money is the issue when it comes to people keeping them as pets, look how much people spend on ow...i mean parrots. I think people either don't care how well they fly their birds, or just simply don't know. I think its all the breeders fault in these cases. You only need to ring a few numbers of people selling in the adtrader or C&AB etc. People who have never flown the birds they breed and they say 'when can you pick it up?' before you even say hello... :roll:

[Tanith]

I am very happy with what we do with our Harris hawk and I am saddened that by some we will be judged as second class falconers. We chose the harris as it is recomended as a "starter bird" and yes in the future I hope we will be able to move on to a more challenging bird.

That time will be when we are in a position to look after another bird with as much dedication as we look after Trinity.

I know too many people who have too many birds and can't fly them all and so they just end up being stuck in an aviary or tethered to their perch.

At least I know that my bird gets taken out most days in season and she is allowed to reach her full potential.

[Tanith]

I think its all the breeders fault in these cases.


I couldn,t agree more cold zero.

I breed RhodesianRidgebacks occasionly and perspective puppy enquiries have to jump through hoops in order to get one of my puppies.

The same should apply to BOP but there will always be people who are in It just for the money.

[Bubo]

I think you have hit the nail on the head there really and are absolutely right there CZ. I have been asked many times if i will breed owls and i wont just simply cos i couldnt part with the babies. I just couldnt trust most with my birds and i would be a nightmare and way too fussy for the peeps who would want to buy one. Even though there are genuine considerate breeders out there there are some that need to brush up their act and check out where their birds are going.

[Renton]

The big problem is that HH are cheap to buy and all manner of ********s want one.

Too true! There are one hell of a lot of so-called Harris Hawk 'breeders' out there.

The responsible breeders, in my experience, want to know quite a lot about a potential customer before parting with a bird.

[Goran]

Hunting licence is first and falconry licence is next thing to ask before you sell any BOP.Without knowledge about hunting seasons and diferent game species what is the point to own any BOP?We in N.America are lucky because we have all this in place.Not easy (or worth the effort) for pet keepers.

[Sprout]

As I've said in other posts its all about accountability? The person selling the bird needs to be made accountable as much as the person buying it, then breeders will be less inclined/unable to sell to people without gaining an understanding that the new owner is capable.

[ColdZero]

one thing i don't understand is why there are so many being bred, not just HH as most get sold but how can so many bloody owls be sold? If barn owls are £30 etc, who the hell is buying them? how many people still believe they are doing anyone a favour by releasing them randomly into the countryside...oh and another thing i don't get is if there are so many shabby falconers farting around the country (twhich there are) why aren't there more problems caused? posaching etc.

also, i don't think flying a HH makes you any less of a falconer than flying an eagle or gos if you do it well, but most don't which is where the problem is.

[Sprout]

also, i don't think flying a HH makes you any less of a falconer than flying an eagle or gos if you do it well, but most don't which is where the problem is.
EXACTLY

[Bubo]

one thing i don't understand is why there are so many being bred, not just HH as most get sold but how can so many bloody owls be sold? If barn owls are £30 etc, who the hell is buying them? how many people still believe they are doing anyone a favour by releasing them randomly into the countryside....

Actually there are still many people breeding and releasing without carrying out any research on where they are releasing birds. The percentage rate of those released birds surviving is extremely low and even lower if the environment may not cater for their needs. Barn owls are delicate little owls and i'm sure that those kept with people who just have no idea dont last that long either :cry:

I really think that educating more people first before they even think about getting a bop is what is really needed so i really would like to see some sort of apprentice scheme/license/ exam in place which will make peeps do a little more research.

[BlueHawk]

Whole new can of worms here, but don't you also think that falconry centres and displays have a lot to answer for, because they give a romanticised view of what we do?

I had a colleague at work tell me last week he was at a display and thought it was great that the bird could do tricks with a stuffed rabbit and it was amazing that the birds came in "at about 30 or 40 miles an hour in a big loop."

Is that what inspires people to take it up? God , I hope not..


Personally, I think these centres have a duty to educate people that come in to them about falconry and how complicated it is, not just sell eagle rubbers and posters of owls...(sorry, not having a pop at the owls again)

[Ben C]

We have covered this a zillion times.

Falconry displays and centres cannot be held responsible for a MORON leaving the centre and then going and buying a Hawk, there are just too many OTHER factors than this over simplified cause and effect.

If an UNINTIATED person is inspired by a Harris flying at a bunny, so what? That person could go on to be a brilliant falconer. Is anyone inspired by a Peregrine dropping from 3000 ft on your first 'hawk experience' ? I know I wasn't.

Most centres do educate people......but only to a certain level, its then up to the INDIVIDUAL to put the effort in. And selling rubbers and other tat is once again fair enough, people are in business. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT!

[Bubo]

This was something i thought about whilst typing my previous message. some peeps do see displays and think yep i want to do that with a bird. Hopefully they will go onto doing courses who will then teach them that it is not what falconry/husbandry is about and will teach them what exactly is required. This is where i would hope centres should be used as a filter separating those who are really seriously interested and are willing to go on learning more about the sport from those that just want to get a bird cos it looks cool on their arm.

I dont think that was a pop at owls because the more I think about it especially since i have been on the forum the more I am starting to see Iamtheweasle's (and others) ways of thinking. There is a difference between hunting with raptors and enjoying the pleasure of flying owls and maybe other species. The characters of birds are very different and each species needs to be studied well before making a decision on getting one. I really think centres have a great role to play and a huge responsibility because a bird's fate and well being it at stake. If the centres dont get the right message across then this is where disaster strikes.

bubo

[Ben C]

BUBO: Owls are amazing creatures and are worthy of anyones interest. If they think there not then they are stupid.

[Bubo]

i agree BenC. there are so many aspects of raptor husbandry and it is just a matter of defining which part each is interested in and what bird to team up with accordingly. None are worth less than the other it is just a matter of what one's particular interest is. I am not sure i could ever become a hawker and definately not a falconer because my heart is just not there. This is another point i think peeps should be made aware of before choosing a bird. Hence the reason i see a need for apprentice schemes so people will not just get the same bird they flew at a centre but will try out a few species before they make up their mind. I have seen many cases of people saying i want an eagle owl cos their big and wonderful or a barn owl cos they're small and cute but later found out they were more drawn to hawks. so what do they do they pass the bird onto someone else and it is usually the newbies who have no idea but are taken in by the fact the bird is going cheap. that really gets up my nose.

[HawkMan69UK]

bubo very well put...each to his own...a lot of people on this forum offer there expertise and skill to anyone who cares to ask they may not like some of the answers but must take it with the respect it deserves but on the other hand there are would be falconers or newbies that are handing out advise like they have nothing else to learn..im sure there are many of us who have had people with a genuine interest in falconry who need to be shown the right steps to own and to care for hawks in ther charge..or relise that maybe falconry is not for them ie:- time /money/location ...has anyone on this forum come across a new falconer who may not be %100 and not given advise..????? we are the ambassadors of this art/sport so its up to us to educate the public and new falconers ... what ever they choose to fly be it owls/hawks or falcons.. unfortunatly some birds are a lot cheaper than others and thats the where the problem starts but do any of us want to see bop prices so high that only the elite can afforrd them..a lot of breeders dont need to advertise cause the birds are orderd before even they hatch and theres forums like this that most of us can scan further a field for a bird... the wrong people will try and get envolved in our sport but its all of us that need to clamp down or educate them....... now enjoy your day 8) :lol: :drinkers:

[MickeyDredd]

has anyone on this forum come across a new falconer who may not be %100 and not given advise..????? we are the ambassadors of this art/sport so its up to us to educate the public and new falconers

Last season, a local ex-shooter came along to a couple of BFC fieldmeets and decided he wanted to get a FHH. A mate of mine who lived near him gave him advice and showed him whats involved with keeping a hawk, sourced a good bird from a reputable breeder etc. He announced he wanted to fly the FHH at partridge :!: and was not going to work ferrets for her to fly at bunnies.

Despite being constantly advised against a FHH for partridge by all 3 of us he went ahead, did a reasonable job of training her but had to rely on my mates ferrets to provide her with kills. He constantly ignored our advise so I cut off all contact with him - if a beginner is unwilling to listen to the advice of experienced falconers, and actually ignore such advice, then why should we waste our precious time on them.

After one season he has now ordered a Gos, again despite all advice to the contrary. :(

[BlackHawke]

i know little about falconry coz i've only been flying 3 years but, when i started and even now i listen to advice given n i'm never afraid to ask even though some of the things i ask may sound stupid to some.

i had a couple contact me through a friend they have a EEO n are getting a harris in august. they came round mine to chat about falconry get some ideas on aviary etc, i told them that this is how i do it, this is how i fly my bird, this is my aviary, don't just take my word for it read the forum, get a couple of books and make your own decisions from the information u have

there are plenty of people on the forum and elswhere that offer good advice but i make my own decisions from the information i have to hand.coz so many people do things their own way.

if newbys to the sport aren't willing to listen to the others when they are good enough to offer their time and experience then in my opinion they shouldn't have a bird.

[Ben C]

if newbys to the sport aren't willing to listen to the others when they are good enough to offer their time and experience then in my opinion they shouldn't have a bird.

You can lead a horse to water...............etc

I had contact with a beginner on this site recently and unfortunately we have 'lost' contact at the moment.

No course at all, bought a harris in september 2004, his hawk was put down to moult in JANUARY (a vet in cheshire said that was OK as its feathers were falling out!!), he has had it a year and has not entered it, it's still on the creance, he feeds it on the fist during the moult, he hasn't hooded it and apparently it is COMMON to not enter your hawk in the first year.

Now I am no expert but could THIS be the future of FALCONRY if we don't get a little serious?

I have offered as much help as I can and I have been more than fair to him, but he insists on arguing the toss at the most fundamental points.

[MickeyDredd]

but he insists on arguing the toss at the most fundamental points[/b].

And he always will Ben, this kind of person will never change their way cos its the way they are generally in life.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

HOLD ON A MINUTE.

Can someone give me a reason why jump ups where invented. :twisted: :twisted:

[Ben C]

To keep a hawk fit during prolonged periods of BAD weather.

Not to off load the responsibility of flying daily to lazy and ill prepared falconers. :twisted: :mrgreen:

[Mary Quite Contrary]

To keep a hawk fit during prolonged periods of BAD weather.

Not to off load the responsibility of flying daily to lazy and ill prepared falconers. :twisted: :mrgreen:

B o l l o c k s.

It takes around a hour to do 150 jumps up so i would disagree it is for ill prepared falconers.
I don't know anyone who doesn't do jumps. If you cant get out to fly your bird due to work or family pressures for that day then most people do jump ups.

Your quote about bad weather from someones book is correct in the political sense of things yet not entirely true.

Mr Fox is not going to write about jump ups in his book and say

" well i had a bad day at work and then the missus gave me ROW and chips for dinner which gave me a headache and now i have to be up at 5.00am to count the dead crows in the freezer. So i will just do some jump ups with the birds instead of flying them.

This isn't a good read and is not the thing to put in a book. But it is true of all.

Owlkener's who keep a Goldie in a weathering and don't fly it are a travesty to our sport. I know of one such Owlkener.

Weekend flyer's are not ill prepared but there priority's are not the same as your 6 day week flyer. You could say they sit on the fence. The birds they own are very well cared for and are jumped up to the fist in in the week. The falconers who own them are happy with what they do and the birds will live to a ripe old age and will be in pristine condition and environment

Why are falconers always looking at the negatives.

[Ben C]

Well you know me and I don't do jumps. There are always circumstances when I might need to................a few days bad rain maybe. :)

I haven't even SEEN NICKS BOOK. I made that up all on my loansome mate. :) :)

Chuffpiece by ill prepared I mean, why have a hawk you can only fly 2 days a week?? Probably best not to have one at all IMHO. Unless there a VERY SPECIFIC circumstances. I also never mentioned how they were looked after either, I am sure they are 'pristine' and 'well looked after'.

I am not LOOKING for negatives, you asked the question :) :)

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Well you know me and I don't do jumps. There are always circumstances when I might need to................a few days bad rain maybe. :)

I haven't even SEEN NICKS BOOK. I made that up all on my loansome mate. :) :)

Chuffpiece by ill prepared I mean, why have a hawk you can only fly 2 days a week?? Probably best not to have one at all IMHO. Unless there a VERY SPECIFIC circumstances. I also never mentioned how they were looked after either, I am sure they are 'pristine' and 'well looked after'.

I am not LOOKING for negatives, you asked the question :) :)


Your response to my first post was negative. Is Lazy and ill prepared not negative then.

Maybe you should read Nick foxs book "understanding the bird of prey."
He has wrote about jump ups

Quote........" Why have a hawk you only fly 2 days a week,, probably better not to have one.

Jump ups to your fist. Is this not letting your bird exercise and fly.
Is the bird not in the air and beating its wings.

I agree in the romantic sense it would be better to fly your bird 6 days a week outside.
Better for all parties.

If a falconer lets his bird sit in the weathering all week without any exercise then the bird will waste away. I agree that is wrong.

But there isn't any problem if the bird has interaction and exercise by means of jumps ups during the week and then hunted at the weekend.There is a difference.

I am a die hard with falconry and people who know me will back this up.

However i know " weekenders" Some of these people don't bother with the birds much during the weekand fly them two days a week, this is wrong!
But the other "weekenders" i know , jump there bird to the fist every evening and when the bird is hunted at the weekend it does well.

Ping pong

[ColdZero]

so do you consider walking your dog up and down the garden 'walking the dog'? he is moving his legs, so therefore he is getting what is required from a walk?

[Liam Hay]

To keep a hawk fit during prolonged periods of BAD weather.

Not to off load the responsibility of flying daily to lazy and ill prepared falconers.

Surely u fly ur bird in all weathers i do. Who's is being lazy there i think its the Falconer

[Ben C]

Chuff: I took your use of :twisted: smilie as a sort of tounge in cheek attack, so responded in kind with my 'smart' arse Lazy and Ill prepared quip. I am not challenging your 'die hardness' towards hawks at all. In fact I reckon we are singing from the same hymn sheet. :)

My personal opinion, for what it is worth, is that jump ups are in no way a substitute for flying a hawk daily for the next 15 years. When you buy a hawk presumably thats how long you will have it; so to SERIOUSLY considering jump ups as a practical replacement for flying is a bit short sighted, thats all. Anyway I fly my hawk for more than just fitness. It probably learns more being flown daily, and its nothing to do with the 'romance' of flying. I think the attempts to 'better' nature or 'substitute' its processes are always a bit arrogant. Perhaps its just me, and I am only giving my very very inexperienced opinion, but it somehow cheapens the whole 'I am a falconer' process. I kind of like the work ethic behind being a falconer, the getting out there in nature and working hard for the results you have set yourself. Not to mention it could provide an excuse to become a bit lazy.......for some!! :) :)

If you can't work your life around buying a hawk then maybe try something else.........what.....I am not sure!! And its easy for me to say that because I am LUCKY enough to have one :) I am

Pchay: As I said, I haven't needed to use them yet (jump ups that is) as I fly in most inclement weather, even if it means half an hour between storms. The beauty of having permission on land outside your front door :) :) However these will be my famous last words I am sure.:) :)



New ball please!

[Kornie]

150 jump ups? Never personaly heard of so many done at a time??

generaly speaking its requires more effort to go out and fly and walk with your bird then it does to do jump ups chas. Surely jump ups are the "lazier" of the two if you have the oppertunity to do both.

[BlackHawke]

when the nights were drawing in after work i couldnt drive the half hour drive to where i fly jade before it got dark i would do 100-150 jump ups with her. theses werent just a few feet but i would stand at the top of a step ladder arm above my head job!

some days it would b almost dark at 3.30-3.45 am i wrong??? should i not have a bird coz i couldnt spare the time???

although i started lamping then!! :D

[ColdZero]

some days it would b almost dark at 3.30-3.45 am i wrong??? should i not have a bird coz i couldnt spare the time???

imo if you can only fly your bird weekends when it gets dark early, then maybe you shouldn't have a bird...it doesn't seem fair. I certainly wouldn't of considered getting a bird so soon if i didn't have time during the day, everyday.

[ColdZero]

i didn't mean anything personal mate, just there are falocners who don't even handle their birds unless its the weekend, not trying to say blackhawke does. I do jump ups if i really can't avoid it when its raining hard.

[Ben C]

although i started lamping then!! :D

Bingo! I think you answered your own question. Thats one way round it. But Blackhawke thats takes a bit of thought and effort mate. Getting in from a hard days work, getting all your stuff together, checking your lamp. Driving out in the wind. Walking around and then slipping your hawk for it to miss!!! Then that has to be repeated AGAIN the next day. But now its drizzling. That cross wind might take her out over that fence, then I might lose her. :) :)

Ultimately what people do and don't do is not really my concern anymore. Whatever I write or think is only based on my observations with ONE hawk. I don't know about you lot but I am begining to get jaded with some of these cyclical arguments. All the toeing and froing about what should be very basic and straight forward ways to treat your hawk. :)

I don't know? Perhaps I've got this wrong, it was all so easy on the pages of the books I read.

[Anton Deja]

I think ,

If you don't have time to fly a bird , don't be a falconer !!!

And lazy birds are the result of lazy falconers !!!!!

Just mi thinking .

[Goldie]

Most HH never reach their full potential for one simple reason. They are deemed my many as the weekenders bird. As they are probably the only bird that truely falls into that categorie they are most suited to that type of falconer. Not everyone is able to fly other than weekends for one reason or another and hence the reason they choose the HH.
Personally I think the HH can be a fantastic bird if flown to its potential and I know a few guys who fly them to that degree and wouldn't change them for anything.
For what its worth, I think if someone can only fly at weekends if the weather allows then they shouldn't have a bird at all.

Waiting for the sh** to hit the fan :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: told you :twisted:

[BlueHawk]

[quote=Goldie]Most HH never reach their full potential for one simple reason. They are deemed my many as the weekenders bird. As they are probably the only bird that truely falls into that categorie they are most suited to that type of falconer. Not everyone is able to fly other than weekends for one reason or another and hence the reason they choose the HH.
Personally I think the HH can be a fantastic bird if flown to its potential and I know a few guys who fly them to that degree and wouldn't change them for anything.
For what its worth, I think if someone can only fly at weekends if the weather allows then they shouldn't have a bird at all.

Waiting for the sh** to hit the fan :lol:


Don't know if I'd be right in saying that the Harris Hawk is being singled out for special attention here when it is unwarranted, I'm sure there are plenty of other broad, short and longwings that are trophy birds and are flown well below their true potential.

Personally, I don't think that I have wrung the best out of my Harris yet, it is something that I continually strive to do, but because I also have a longwing, it doesn't elevate me beyond an armchair 'arris 'awker.

The problem goes much deeper than cheap birds, availability etc.
It's an attitudinal one.

The difference is between those who have a passing interest and limited knowledge of what they're doing and people who are true falconers in every sense. Let's not go slinging mud about the "I don't do jumps (I do), I get out 3 times a week (I'm out every day)" theories.

Oh and another thing, if you think you're a great falconer just because you're out every day, think again... you might just be making a **** of it more regularly than someone who knows what they're doing.. :shock:

[BlackHawke]

i think all BOP never reach their full potential in captivity,the only way that would b possible was if they were in the wild! true? should any of us have BOP coz we cant fly them to their true potential?????

how many people on here can honestly say they fly one bird all year round?? thats what they would be doing in the wild?? is this unfair that most of us leave our birds in the aviary to moult??

CZ i can honestly say hand on heart that jade was out at least 5 days a week. this was average i would be quite often out for 7. this is because i wanted to be out. i put all my spare time in the season (which over the last year n half is quite a bit, i'm a student!!) into ONE bird. not a multitude.

i had another little male harris for the missus to man n train n she did a great job unfortunatly it died.before anyone says owt this wasn't anyones fault!! at that time thats all i wanted to do was fly one bird, because for me it wouldnt be fair for me to have more than one bird coz 1 will be sitting at home in the aviary!

now after last season was cut short coz jade had a wing infection, then she got attacked by another harris and i almost lost her. i have decided to get another bird for myself.i'm not sure if she will grow more feathers in the affected area this moult. plus her age . both myself n the missus is going to train n fly. i'm still going to fly jade if i can n jen will also fly.

jade is at least 16 now i was offered her almost 3 seasons ago to borrow, i took her on knowing she had been neglected n had been sat in a tiny aviary for years. when the bloke who i got her off picked her up originally,she was caked in mud not one of her main feathers were undamaged.she was very set in her ways, to big for her boots, stubborn n a right bitch!thats wot age does for ya!!Lol

how many falconers would take on problem birds? especially that age!

i could've got another harris n given her back but i persevered i worked out most of her problems n have had a few good seasons with her.


i am honestly not trying to blow my own trumpet here but trying to show people it is my choice to put all my time into my bird because i have the time at the min in the future i may not. but i will still fly my bird when i can as long as my bird is well looked after and cared for.

am i not to have a bird if i can only fly it at the weekends because other people say i can't???.Boll**s!! at least it will b flown unlike a lot of other birds in zoo's and falconry centres!!! as long as it is cared for!

[BlackHawke]

i think a far more important issue is the birds that are neglected n mistreated not the ones that can only be flown at weekends!

[Ben C]

Oh and another thing, if you think you're a great falconer just because you're out every day, think again... you might just be making a **** of it more regularly than someone who knows what they're doing.. :shock:

I can't imagine Goldie making too many mistakes..............but you never know eh mate :)

[Bubo]

I can't imagine Goldie making too many mistakes..............but you never know eh mate :)

nope me neither :lol:

what is an owlkener?

[Ben C]

A small hairy midget who lives in Finland and who comes out from under the Ice to fly Owls? Or is that a Moomin?

No an Owlkener is a falconer spelt badly? Or is it Owlconer? Who knows, but I bet you £1000 thet its a real word bubo! :)

[BlueHawk]

Oh and another thing, if you think you're a great falconer just because you're out every day, think again... you might just be making a **** of it more regularly than someone who knows what they're doing.. :shock:

I can't imagine Goldie making too many mistakes..............but you never know eh mate :)

Certainly wasn't talking about Goldie..

[Ben C]

Who were you talking about then?

[BlueHawk]

Who were you talking about then?

Just a general observation Ben, nothing to get para about.... :shock:

[Goldie]

Oh and another thing, if you think you're a great falconer just because you're out every day, think again... you might just be making a **** of it more regularly than someone who knows what they're doing.. :shock:

I can't imagine Goldie making too many mistakes..............but you never know eh mate :)

Certainly wasn't talking about Goldie..

Doesn't really matter who it was aimed at, it is a fair point that some people are out flying regular and still know very little.

I, like everyone else have made mistakes, and the person who has never made one is a liar :lol: but one things for sure, I never made the same mistake twice.
I still maintain that someone who has a bird that sits on a bow all week and gets flown at the weekend, provided its not raining, shouldn't have one at all. You may be surprised how many people fall into that categorie.
I know of a few, and 1 person in particular to the best of my knowledge had his bird out no MORE than 10 times all season apart from the Xmas/New Year holiday due to the weather at the times he was able to fly (weekends).

The reason HH is singled out is probably because it is the bird that you can leave doing damn all for a week and it will still respond to you and give some sort of fun to its handler irrespective of its condition.

[BlackHawke]

oh bl***y hell are my post that boring that noone can be bothered to comment!! :D :rolleyes: sorry have i sent u all to sleep!!!Lol

[BlackHawke]

i do agree with goldie on the point about if it is out on a bow all week. my own opinion but unless i really have to jade has always been freelofted. i've never seen a need to tether her when shes fit n manned. but on a bow all week for me is a no no!!

[Bubo]

i'm changing subject completely but what are peeps who fly eagles called? apart from bloody lucky :lol:

[Ben C]

Bubo: Berkutchi is a person who flies an Eagle. :)

[Mary Quite Contrary]

150 jump ups? Never personaly heard of so many done at a time??

generaly speaking its requires more effort to go out and fly and walk with your bird then it does to do jump ups chas. Surely jump ups are the "lazier" of the two if you have the oppertunity to do both.


read my post again?

[Ben C]

[quote="Goldie"]

I, like everyone else have made mistakes, and the person who has never made one is a liar :lol: but one things for sure, I never made the same mistake twice.
quote]

Which just goes to strengthen my point. If you ain't out there doing it then you ain't gonna learn.

Not accounting for the varying degrees of a handlers intelligence. If you have someone going out everyday they will become better falconer faster than someone flying at weekends. Taking your (extreme?) case in point Goldie. That silly person only had 10 oppotunities to rectify any mistakes he made. Where as someone out daily has.......well everyday to alter and develop their approach......minus a few days weather thats a steep learning curve. But as I said, NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE HANDLERS INTELLIGENCE.

How many falconers knew about the closing in of winters evenings BEFORE buying a hawk. How many STILL went ahead and bought one anyway, without having a plan of action.

Also if your feeding the hawk from the glove that much, and for such a prolonged period of time without killing anything, what will happen to the birds phsychology?. (this is a genuine question as well, as I don't know the answer). :)

[Mary Quite Contrary]

some days it would b almost dark at 3.30-3.45 am i wrong??? should i not have a bird coz i couldnt spare the time???

imo if you can only fly your bird weekends when it gets dark early, then maybe you shouldn't have a bird...it doesn't seem fair. I certainly wouldn't of considered getting a bird so soon if i didn't have time during the day, everyday.


Bloody hell CZ
Pot and kettle.

You have more animals than Noah's Arc judging by the pics you have just posted. Do you have the time to look after these. :twisted: :evil:

Is that fair!

[Ben C]

:mrgreen: :shock: :mrgreen: :roll:

[BlackHawke]

Also if your feeding the hawk from the glove that much, and for such a prolonged period of time without killing anything, what will happen to the birds phsychology?. (this is a genuine question as well, as I don't know the answer). :)

i dunno the answer to this either but can u compare them to a dog? natural pack and hunting instinct???

[Mary Quite Contrary]

when the nights were drawing in after work i couldnt drive the half hour drive to where i fly jade before it got dark i would do 100-150 jump ups with her. theses werent just a few feet but i would stand at the top of a step ladder arm above my head job!

some days it would b almost dark at 3.30-3.45 am i wrong??? should i not have a bird coz i couldnt spare the time???

although i started lamping then!! :D

A honest answer at last.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

I can't imagine Goldie making too many mistakes..............but you never know eh mate :)

nope me neither :lol:

what is an owlkener?


A Owlkener is a word created by me.

I use it for falconers who keep BOP for eye candy and occasionally pick up the bird on glove and give it the large for the sake of some social or public event.
With comments like
" oh yer i am a falconer i have lots of birds and stuff"

Reality is the birds do static displays for the rest of there lives and waste away.

[BlackHawke]

Reality is the birds do static displays for the rest of there lives and waste away.

this was a point i was making aswell, i've seen some centres have as well as other species a good 5-10 harris hawks all just sitting there y they need that many sitting there all day doing nowt and most centres wouldnt have the staff to fly all birds everyday.

i really dont want to start an discussion over falconry centres coz most i've been to do a sterling job, aswell as looking after the birds but educating the public which cant be bad for the pr of the sport :D

[Gaz]

A Owlkener
Like it,like it :finga: :mrgreen:

[Kevin Massey]

Moved from GFT

[KiteTrainer]

I saw this photo and it made me wonder what changes have happened. If its true that many of those who learn with HH don't move onto goshawks or other more difficult birds, will fewer be bred each year and the whole sport be dominated (even more) by the HH? Will the HH be the whole focus of falconry in 50 years (when all you old ba*****s birth certifcate expire) and things like spars only be flown by a few people?
I don't really know what to think, as the HH isn't a bad bird at all and i don't want this thread to be another debate whether they are ruining falconry because they are not. It would just be a shame if all the new falconers like myself never flew other birds.

Correct:supz:

[Mark Collins]

Harris hawks are great birds , the reason they are so popular is because they are not as challenging as some of the other birds, lots of people i feel would love to fly a goss or a peregrine but in a lot of cases work , family commitments, land , can hold people back .There will always be a big demand for harris hawks i feel , goshawks , peregrines , tend to be generally, not always, but flown by more commited people, i dont mean this nastily , its just that most of us no its easyer to get a harris hawk trained and hunting than say a female ,peregrine or a parent reared goss, mark.