Imprints vs PR

[UglyBear]

natural ... i cant see why we need imprinted birds....
it must be some thing to do with money

[LeesHawks]

natural ... i cant see why we need imprinted birds....
it must be some thing to do with money

you must be blind then :lol:

[UglyBear]

blind pig headed and stupid ... theres still no need for imprints we should be able to let nature do what it does best ... and then be able to take a chic or two under licence so money grabing t... like yourself can get f.... we want quality not quantity

[GoodFooter]

we want quality not quantity

no offence mate.....but Lee has produced some of the highest quality hunting goshawks around.....

jump on Horsebox's ( Phil's) thread and tell me thats not a quality Gos of the highest order:roll::roll:...and then ask yourself who bred it and how????

it wasnt a one off either.

To perpetuate the genes of the best birds its a fact that imprints are the most efficieint way of doing it.....most of the better breeders invest huge sums of money to buy the best genes ( breeding birds).

Your fighting a losing battle mate.

[UglyBear]

so what your saying is an imprint is going to be better than training a wild bird... now whos iq is going down

[LeesHawks]

no offence mate.....but Lee has produced some of the highest quality hunting goshawks around.....

jump on Horsebox's ( Phil's) thread and tell me thats not a quality Gos of the highest order:roll::roll:...and then ask yourself who bred it and how????

it wasnt a one off either.

To perpetuate the genes of the best birds its a fact that imprints are the most efficieint way of doing it.....most of the better breeders invest huge sums of money to buy the best genes ( breeding birds).

Your fighting a losing battle mate.

thank you rob, and i,m not a big breeder but do invest to improve the quality... the bloke is a fool and should be kicked off the forum, probably the best thread for ages and a **** comes and spoils it, 5 years ago you wouldnt have got a third of the information on a forum that we have being shared now, money hey my work is my money my birds are my hobby and what i do make isnt a lot but it keeps me flying the gosses and improving the gene pool as in last year and this years birds that are being bought in from outside as investment to the birds quality, going down the same path that the harry's and keith's, mick's of this world have already gone and shown the way forward.
kick the idiot off please mods

lee

[Stu Bailey]

blind pig headed and stupid ... theres still no need for imprints we should be able to let nature do what it does best ... and then be able to take a chic or two under licence so money grabing t... like yourself can get f.... we want quality not quantity


I dont no much,infact i no **** all about breeding..

but there are quality breeders of Goshawks out there,

that hold there price and im happy to pay top end..

if your happy to buy from a breeder who for example buys a Female Gos in for breeding because "its a Female Gos",then so be it..

No dought in my mind you can have quality and quantity,or you can go cheap and buy of someone with no regard to quality or proven lines...

just an opinion..

atb..

[Barnaby]

i think that that bop shod b pr not ip to me it sems that people r exploiting it sum ties and thinking quantity not quality sum ties i suppons in sum kaesis it miet b necssary i supows .. but to exploiting for muny is rong u shood ownle kep bop for plesha and to hunt or fliy to a lure for fun not to hav lowds sos thay wownt oll b properly manigd ... thats my vuow on it .

[GoodFooter]

so what your saying is an imprint is going to be better than training a wild bird... now whos iq is going down

If your replyin to my thread no....thats not what I said at all...can you not read?

I'll spell it out for you......good breeders are able to produce more birds thanks to the use of imprints for breeding ( nothing to do with flying the imprints) ......a good breeder uses birds from good selected proven lines so more people have the benfit of being able to fly the birds from those lines......they breed more reliably and can produce more eggs and often do so younger........than wild birds

the breeder can select for size, hunting ability, temprement,.....infact what ever they like........in the wild natural selection isnt always giving falconer what we want .....eg in the wild a gos is more likely to survive if it has a real fear of humans........the very opposite of what we falconers want.

if you cant see any good in imprints you are indeed blind.

[UglyBear]

its not down to blood lines its down to training you have only got to look at boxing the dogs and horses some mongrel dogs will be better than any true breed of dog, if your trying to produce a pedagree species then thats fine

[GoodFooter]

its not down to blood lines its down to training you have only got to look at boxing the dogs and horses some mongrel dogs will be better than any true breed of dog, if your trying to produce a pedagree species then thats fine

you are clearly on a different planet.
Why are finnish gosses twice the price of german ones if its nothing to do with the breeding??????? they are after all the same birds just different lines:roll::rolleyes:


Why have different strains of peregrines developed if its nothing to do with breeding?

dont tell me thousands of falconers have got it wrong and we should save our pennies and get the cheapest birds we can???

[MattSpar]

you are clearly on a different planet.
Why are finnish gosses twice the price of german ones if its nothing to do with the breeding??????? they are after all the same birds just different lines:roll::rolleyes:


Why have different strains of peregrines developed if its nothing to do with breeding?

dont tell me thousands of falconer have got it wrong and we should save our pennies and get the cheapest birds we can???

It's high time raptors were bred with certain characteristics in mind, tameness, response to training, performance in the field, and so on.

[Barnaby]

If your replyin to my thread no....thats not what I said at all...can you not read?

I'll spell it out for you......good breeders are able to produce more birds thanks to the use of imprints for breeding ( nothing to do with flying the imprints) ......a good breeder uses birds from good selected proven lines so more people have the benfit of being able to fly the birds from those lines......they breed more reliably and can produce more eggs and often do so younger........than wild birds

the breeder can select for size, hunting ability, temprement,.....infact what ever they like........in the wild natural selection isnt always giving falconer what we want .....eg in the wild a gos is more likely to survive if it has a real fear of humans........the very opposite of what we falconers want.

if you cant see any good in imprints you are indeed blind. going a genst nature selecting wot shod b givan a chans and wot shodant . sum tiems things downt look the part but very good at wot it dus not having a gow .just wot i think thats oll .

[UglyBear]

its the owner of any animal bird ect that makes it a good one not the blood lines .
the only reason you get more money is becauce its a finish and again, are there any true finishes in the country or do we all own a plain gos

[Barnaby]

its the owner of any animal bird ect that makes it a good one not the blood lines .
the only reason you get more money is becauce its a finish and again, are there any true finishes in the country or do we all own a plain gos gos is a gos 1lb 6 or 3lb dus the saem job most r proble inbred naw so downt no wot u col that ? think thay do that in alvale and arly lol

[GoodFooter]

It's high time raptors were bred with certain characteristics in mind, tameness, response to training, performance in the field, and so on.

Some are Matt......I have no doubt of that. I think it will become more 'consumer' driven even in part if it is accidental. Alot of birds are bought from recomendation.....and that in a way often drives forward change.

With imprinting the generation turnover has been at worst halved.....with media word is spread quickly.....

I know breeders have selected for performance, size, calmness......as they have offered friends premiums for their birds displaying those characteristics....agreed it is more so among commoner birds like goshawks and even HH....with less common like merlins i guess its a case of take what you can get.

[Ben C]

so what your saying is an imprint is going to be better than training a wild bird... now whos iq is going down

Yes.........I have trapped a few hawks and not all were that special. It may be wild but it may also not be the best out of the clutch. Control and choice through breeding offers a way out of this problem

[Stu Bailey]

.
we are able to tell you about the eyases parents grandparents and further back in some cases, we can tell you what their manners are like how they hunted what quarry they excelled in and basically all the information that you need to make your best judgement on picking a eyas that you see as being the best, so evry one chill and lets get on with it

lee

Thats very reasureing,thats how it should be :cool:

[Ben C]

right lets cut the **** taking you have dyslexia no problem, i had a verbal assault from a guy who is on the wrong thread or hasnt read it from the start, probably some one you know but regardless has nothing of any good for this thread, if he wants to climb tree's and take from the wild then that is fine carry on, he will never know what quality is, if you want to read and learn about natural incubation or use of incubators the pitfalls for both of these ways, then carry on and join in, this isnt about the imprint verse parent reared these are the 2 options that breeders large or small has infront of them offered once a year, in which most of us, big and small breeders are trying to invest and better quality for the benfit of the goshawks, be it finish, german finish albidus or whatever and most imprtant the austringer taking up these birds.
we are able to tell you about the eyases parents grandparents and further back in some cases, we can tell you what their manners are like how they hunted what quarry they excelled in and basically all the information that you need to make your best judgement on picking a eyas that you see as being the best, so evry one chill and lets get on with it

lee

lee taking this a bit further then. Would you swap one of your offspring for a wild caught passage hawk?

[Barnaby]

wel stop the smart ars coments a bawt my spelling then kos im bord ov it we arnt oll perfikt... yes iv bred gosis wiv my olld bos .we perant rerd them oll.
liek i sed b for its wot eva u prefer . and falcons and hiy breds i supos u do hav to .. but i strongl think it is dun for muny .not oll pepol but sum ... NO JOWKS ON SPELLING. missis a has gon shoping naw so krnt help lol

[LeesHawks]

lee taking this a bit further then. Would you swap one of your offspring for a wild caught passage hawk?

absolutely no way, i have seen some fly and wasnt impressed with them, now this was more than likely the guy flying! than the bird but no i wouldnt, i would maybe one day like to fly one then i can give a better answer but all my birds except for 2 i personally didnt fly myself but know the guys that have flown them.
main reason is i wouldnt know their history and i know that it all started from that stage but we have better options available to us now and full use of this is only for the better, by the way i produce more german finish than finish but the quality and format with the parents birds stays the same.

regards

lee

[UglyBear]

you will only learn by getting out and doing it

[LeesHawks]

wel stop the smart ars coments a bawt my spelling then kos im bord ov it we arnt oll perfikt... yes iv bred gosis wiv my olld bos .we perant rerd them oll.
liek i sed b for its wot eva u prefer . and falcons and hiy breds i supos u do hav to .. but i strongl think it is dun for muny .not oll pepol but sum ... NO JOWKS ON SPELLING. missis a has gon shoping naw so krnt help lol

hi
i havent taken the P but i do have 1 question about your statment above, you and your boss breeds them so all well and good, do you give them away ? or sell them?

regards

lee

[Ben C]

absolutely no way, i have seen some fly and wasnt impressed with them, now this was more than likely the guy flying! than the bird but no i wouldnt, i would maybe one day like to fly one then i can give a better answer but all my birds except for 2 i personally didnt fly myself but know the guys that have flown them.
main reason is i wouldnt know their history and i know that it all started from that stage but we have better options available to us now and full use of this is only for the better, by the way i produce more german finish than finish but the quality and format with the parents birds stays the same.

regards

lee


Thats interesting. The first spar I flew came from a clutch of about 10 chicks, if you know what I mean ;). But she lacked the total killer instinct of the second chamber reared one I flew. Go figure.

[Ben C]

you will only learn by getting out and doing it

This is true. But a bit of help along the way by EXPERIENCED FALCONERS is helpful.

[Stu Bailey]

Lee

Do you find some lines have a slightly,dare i say differnt wing beat?

From what ive seen,some of Micks good sized Males (mine included) when you see them at a certain angle,side view etc... some have...all i can describe it as a beautiful,deep beat.

Ive seen mine and Jims former Male,have a lovely motion on the turn where they do little tooking in,beats.

very hard to put into words

Do you think differnt lines have slightly differnt wing beats?

atb..

[UglyBear]

hi
i havent taken the P but i do have 1 question about your statment above, you and your boss breeds them so all well and good, do you give them away ? or sell them?

regards

lee
I believe they had 4 pairs all were parent reared none were sold until manned up ..

[Barnaby]

hi
i havent taken the P but i do have 1 question about your statment above, you and your boss breeds them so all well and good, do you give them away ? or sell them?

regards

lee my owld hed keepa na he downt giv them a way .he keps him self to his self .and told me to kos he sed thers a lot ov chancers a bawt and think he wos riet .. not directde at u,, . but do u giv urs a way.

[Ben C]

I believe they had 4 pairs all were parent reared none were sold until manned up ..

So they were sold then.


Look guys can we keep this to a COMPARISON and education about sitting and nesting and hatching............

[Barnaby]

So you think the use of incubators is used for money? Why?
no maet iv neva usd them my self .. liek i kep saing its wot eva u pufer pr ip sum kaesis its nesasery ??? . long as u kan kill stuf wiv ur choys of falcon or hark wot eva flots ur bowt

[LeesHawks]

my owld hed keepa na he downt giv them a way .he keps him self to his self .and told me to kos he sed thers a lot ov chancers a bawt and think he wos riet .. not directde at u,, . but do u giv urs a way.

i have done in the past to build up stock and let close friends fly them so i can see how they get on ect, they have been rewarded with their own bird from the birds that they have flown, the money i make from my goshawks is put back into them either, better avairys, incubators or equipment right up to traveling round and looking at and tracing good stock to improve mine with, some of the bigger breeders make their living from breeding birds i take my hat of too them as it isnt easy, which leads me to say that if i was making a living from my birds by breeding them then they would be the best kept birds in the country, no expense spared and only the best for them at all times, now the smaller breeder who has a couple of imprints or pairs may cut corners and not do the best for the birds he is breeding from which can be in many different ways and i,m making no accusations here but i have been to some and seen the state that they are kept in and it is shocking, all that these guys was after was the money end of, last year i turned over £253000 at my work and i dont need to make money from my birds to live, i,m not rich but i get by!

regards

lee