Female Harris Hawk

[Annie]

Female Harris Hawk, really does not want to give up dummy bunny with or without food attached........any advice other than covering bunny with gloved hand with pick-up piece and throwing food a few feet away so that bird has to choose between bunny or food. She's a complete love, but boy is she feisty.

[Ben C]

How old is she?

[BlackHawke]

i've been using a towel to cover the quarry dont really need to with jade coz she will give anything up for a chick! something to cover the dummy bunny completly

a friend uses an old sleeve from a coat.

what about larger titbit like a rabbit leg/head or something a bit bigger than a few chicks?

[Liam Hay]

Patience is a virtue lost with many Falconers, let her calm on bunny first then offer in glove with tough food ie rabbit, then as she picks at rabbit on glove let your glove move up every time she pulls, she will soon work out to use her feet to pull against. Try this but best thing is to hunt and get her on real ones.

[BlackHawke]

i used dead bunnies as lure with all my harris's

i also used a radio controlled car with a bunnie skin n tail on. worked well,problem with this was grass was always a bit to long n slowed car down

[Annie]

My baby is 10 months old - yesturday I did manage to get her to fly to the fist from the ground for a morsal by standing on the lure line, thus she was unable to carry it. I'm just a little concerned when it comes to the real thing. She's grounded at the moment until the rooks fledge as she took a liking to landing in the nests.

[Goldie]

How long have you had her ? and if she has been free flying and landing in nests, why are you still flying to the dummy ?

[Ben C]

I agree with PCHay, but remember never leave the bunny (dummy or otherwise) in view of your hawk. Always slide it away when they are not looking. I prefer to get Cody to spring from his kill anyway. But it sounds as if she is doing that anyway. But it is unlikely that your hawk will kill the rabbit outright, so you will have to 'get' in there and dispatch the rabbit anyway. :) Making it unlikely that you could pick her up from the rabbit without her seeing you 'nicking' her food. However I am sure someone will tell you they have done that so don't take my word a gospel :) :)


Have you not caught any rabbits at all then Annie??

[BlackHawke]

i despatch the bunny with jade still on it, then cover n wait for it to die, still holding of course!!

[Annie]

No, I have not caught rabbits with her yet only rook, I've been involved with her training from day one. But now she has come home to stay and I am dropping her weight and going over old ground, she is now near her flying weight and now accustomed to her new area, so will be flying free soon. Still an apprentice, no lectures please, just good sound advice would be appreciated. I've taken on board the 'patience' factor, maybe we're both being a little too keen, Gypsy on her kill and me on picking-up.

[BlackHawke]

do u not trust her enough yet to free fly her?

[Ben C]

Blackehawke: Thats interesting. I do it slightly differently.

I dispatch the rabbit, then step away and let Cody have a few minutes 'calming down' time. He hasn't fully worked out how to break in through the skin yet so it gives him a bit of time 'owning' the rabbit. Then I make in slowly and cut a hole in the chest and let him feed with me close to him. When he has a good mouthful I nip in and grab a bit of liver and toss it away. Mostly he jumps for that and I can slip the rabbit into my jacket. Sometimes he won't, so I pick it up, wave it at him and then throw it again. Usually that does the trick. I hope this is right, but I am sure others have a different method.

Annie I've only been doing it a while as well, so I hope you don't think I am lecturing, because I know next to nothing as well :) :) :)

[IAmTheWeasel]

I'll give you a quick and easy way to do it. It may be hard for the bird to learn this at first as they don't want to leave their prize. Each bird I have flown so far have all done this with amazing results and it goes so smooth and quick that it makes trading off the kill a piece of cake. All it is, is a basic method that many falconers use. Here is a basic run down of a transfer starting at the kill site. Bird has just come to ground with a squirrel in her grasp so I rush in and dispatch the squirrel. I them let her sit and get her adrenaline to settle down for a minute of two or until she starts to try break into the quarry. At this point I reach into the game bag and toss the lure about two foot away from her while I hold the squirrel with my gloved hand. The bird launches off the squirrel to the lure and gets her pre measured reward. Now, she is quite fond of the lure as most birds are and as you stated, they are a little reluctant to let go. The method I use is basicly a repeat of trading off the kill. I wait until the bird settles down and has finished the food on the lure. She will sit there and foot the lure several times trying to see if there is any other food for her(I always tie food to both sides of the lure so the bird becomes acustomed to me reaching in to the lure to turn it over for her... prevents her being so footy) When she has had her way with the lure I simply wait for her attention and toss a tid bit about 2 ft away and she will leave the lure like it didn't exist. I then pocket the lure and immediatly present the fist with a second tid bit. Bird is now on the fist. Can be hooded and reset for a second hunt.
Annie, one thing you must understand is thet by using a lure made of the same look and feel as their quarry, they will not want to let go. I am supprised that nobody has touched on this subject yet, but I feel that it is wrong to try use a lure that looks like their quarry. I use a simple pouch of leather with two ties on it for the food. This way they have learned that a seperate item is there for them to receive food. Don't worry, all birds are food whores and will figure out real quick where to go to get it. It only has to become a recognized item that they know will give them food, so making the lure look like a rabbit is more for us than them as their visual accuity is quite a bit sharper than ours and know quite well that that lump of dried rabbit fur is quite fake, yet it still elicits a responce from them so many continue to use them. I have never had any problems or do I know of any that have had problems wedding a bird to a plain piece of leather with food on it. One thing is for sure....the regular leather lure lasts a lot longer that a rabbit fur lure that get plucked every time the bird lands on it.
Sorry if I rambled on a bit, but I am trying to piece this toghether while I work at my office so it may seem a bit hastliy written.
Cheers,
Weasel

[BlackHawke]

i think its probably cos jades old, i desptach quarry n cover n hold.the first season into the second i would let her feed on her kill but she'd take a good 15-20 mins to show any interest even if i opened the kill up. but i found that by stickin a chick under her nose or if i cut a leg or head of the quarry (depending on wot it was) pushing up on her to entice her onto the fist n let her feed of the fist i had no probs at all. she will now leave her kill n jump to my fist now no probs.i know i'm gonna get slated for this!!but shes an old wise bird now. shes had 4 kill in her aviary now since this seasons moult. shes killed n left them all!

[IAmTheWeasel]

Oh, Annie, another point you may want to think about is that since your spending a long time in the training mode the bird is becoming what we call "fist bound" or "sticky footed" with the lure. It tends to happen alot when there is little variation in the routine and they know nothing else but the lure as a food source. Get that bird killin! :lol:

[Ben C]

See Annie....3 different falconers.......3 different approaches :) :)

Blackehawke: Thats either a very good hawk or a very strange one eh mate :)

Weasel: Why use the lure? Why not just throw the meat, it would save on the amount of 'freebies' given. Or am I being a bit thick and missing something. :)

[Kevin Massey]

Patience is a virtue lost with many Falconers,

absolutely spot on,

personally i make into the quarry, dispatch it quick as possible but making sure my movements are deliberate but not erratic.....then back off for a few moments.

Kev

[BlackHawke]

your telling me ben, she'd had 3 blackbirds n a sparrow in the aviary over the last few months. it is a right waste of good food!

theres a few falconers on here with old harris's, i've found out after speaking to a few, that the older they get the wiser they get which isn't always a good thing! jade has had quite a s**t life apparently until i got her. she knows she will get fed at the end of the day, n shes not stupid, she loves chick which is probably because she was always fed it before me. when i put chick n quail in for her the quail will b sittin their the next day.

on field meets she'll always be the last to follow on or be on the outside of a crop of trees, waiting for the cast and dogs to flush. she gets results for less effort. which can be frustrating for me! but great flight when we get em

on our own shes a wicked bird. she appears to love the chase,

what i can gather from her history is for the first 8 years she was a great rabbit hawk then she was put up for breeding n pushed about all over the place til she come to me. my view is shes the expert on hunting not me so i've left her to it.

when cody got a few years behind him mate then you'll see. but like i said this isn't always a good thing!

[Bird_Dog]

Hey,

Here's another trick that helps. It's not really different than what Weasle or the others have said -- Except that you hold the lure or rabbit firmly perhaps covering it with your falconry bag, then toss a tidbit to the rear of the hawk so that it must turn around to get the food. Releasing the rabbit is a natural movement when the hawk must turn to reach the food. Don't let the hawk drag the rabbit to the tidbit or it won't work.

Fly that bird free asap!!! If it's grabbing the lure like that it's ready.

-- BIRD_DOG

[OutFlying]

Trading a hawk off a kill isn't hard when a routine is established. I always let the hawk calm down, dispatch the quarry, allow small plucking time then offer a good reward either on the fist or lure. The bottom line is the hawk mustn't feel robbed of its success. Once the routine is established the hawk will be looking forward to the trade off and not as focused on the kill - it will learn fly , catch then reward.

OF.

[IAmTheWeasel]

Exactly!

[BlackHawke]

agree 100% OF routine and consistency a harris will soon learn if u reward well that it will always get a decent meal out of it

[OutFlying]

See Annie....3 different falconers.......3 different approaches :) :)

Blackehawke: Thats either a very good hawk or a very strange one eh mate :)

Weasel: Why use the lure? Why not just throw the meat, it would save on the amount of 'freebies' given. Or am I being a bit thick and missing something. :)

BenC,
If you use a lure then carrying will not be possible, also the positive results of feeding off the lure will be implanted on the hawk (making for better recalls when using the lure). If you make your techniques bomb proof then when you finally decide (if ever) to fly a different species then most previous techniques will be valid. If you use slack practices which a Harris hawk might allow and you never experience problems with - will be exposed if / when you fly a more difficult species.

OF.

[IAmTheWeasel]

Exactly.....again :lol: The use of routine in trading off a bird will cause the bird to start catching game with the idea that it gets the reward rather than the quarry it just caught. Just remember to take your time in the process as it can backfire such as the bird prematurly releases the quarry in anticipation of the reward.

[OutFlying]

oh yes, always make sure the quarry is secure before offering the reward :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[Ben C]

OF/Weasel: I see.....so using the lure rather than throwing an offering is the best practice?

I use my lure regularly with cody, I feed him up on it after a blank day etc etc. And use it to call him back from long distances. But I have never used it as a pick up mechanism on a regular basis.

Very interesting.

[OutFlying]

Ben,
The lure can be a very powerful tool, much more than throwing a small reward on the floor. A reward on the floor could be carried up into a tree (maybe not with Cody) but if you make your techiques 100% they work with all hawks not just your present one.
Of.

[Ben C]

Yeah got it......as I read your post I was thinking it through....throwing an offering without making it a lesson is a wasted oppotunity!! EVERY step has to be ABOUT something. Another 1% in the jigsaw of making it a decent hunting partnership.

I will get this sorted for the coming season OF....thanks:)

[OutFlying]

That's it Ben,
No more free top tips, you'll have to go on my course or read the book :wink:

Jim

[Ben C]

Yeah yeah......................fully understood captain :)

[OutFlying]

:butthead:

[Ben C]

One day mate..........one day...................I reckon I don't do too bad for a green horned newcomer........:) :)

[OutFlying]

my socks are still nice

[Ben C]

HA..............don't get used to them my mate.......I am growing fast, and they will need a wash soon :) :)

[OutFlying]

:goodman:

[Ben C]

Aww...........thanks fella :)

[OutFlying]

When's you party bash ?

[Ben C]

August 6, 7 and 8th.........:)

[Annie]

Thank you everyone for your help.

You will be glad to hear that I've had my girl flying free since Friday and I finished with a perfect overhead catch (a pat on the back for both bird and apprentice). And yesturday she made a dive at a lone pheasant (and no I hadn't deliberately set out to hunt pheasant out of season, it was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, unfortunately all the bunnies must have seen us a coming).

From your posts, I know I have been too keen to remove her from the lure too soon and I also like the idea when she does kill of using the lure to entice her off etc. And yes I have a bunny lure and the swing lure which has not got i.e. crow feathers attached but just the pad. So if I need to entice her down from a tree for whatever reason I can use the bunny lure or if I can't see her or the grass is too long I can use the swing lure (I think this is correct).

Thank you for all your help, it was well appreciated.

Annie