Screaming Harris' Hawk

[Tr1gger]

My Harris' Trigger is getting ready to come out of the moult and I would like some advice. Last season Trigger would all ways sit in his aviary screaming whenever he heard the car, footsteps, alarm clock, TV etc. Fortunately we didn't have any complaints from the neighbour but don't no if we will b that lucky this season. The strange thing that threw me was that he wouldn't make so much as a peep when he was out on the field.

Any help on trying to prevent this would b much appreciated.

[Shaun Byrne]

Sorry to bring bad news but if he is kept by you, in the same place (mews) there's not a lot you can do about it. He may stop of his own accord, he may not.

How old is he?

How often does he get to hunt?

[Coedhirion]

He may stop in his second year, depends if he is some kind of imprint? If he starts again this year you will just have to buy earphones for the neighbours!! People have tried playing the radio, leaving a TV on, all kinds of things but I don't know of any thing that works if the bird is a true screamer. If any one did they would probably make a fortune :lol:
You could just move to an area so full of wild buzzards no one notices just one more yelling :lol:
By the way my first year male Harris yelled last year just as you describe. He is an awesome hunter and even puts the Gos in the shade some times. If he screams this year, then as long as he dosen't do it non stop in the car travelling to a hunting ground, I will continue to put up with him. He was always silent on the way home :lol: :lol: He hunted 6 days a week. An average of one kill a day too.

[Varmint]

He may stop in his second year, depends if he is some kind of imprint?

Like what kind?

Why should he stop in his second year and for what reason?

[Shaun Byrne]

Now we're in trouble! The Harris god has returned! :oops: :D

What do you recon Adrian?

[Ben C]

Theoretically and from what little I know.....:) :)

Does a Harris mature and then tend to lose its screaming? Or maybe its just get DEEPER :)

If its an imprint/creche reared can it fly at higher weights and therefore be prone to less noise?

I hope!!!!

[Varmint]

Thankyou HAWKA for your kind welcome mate,

Trigger, You need to tell us a lot more about the bird, your daily routine, accom ect if we are going to try and help you.

It's just sooo easy to say it's an imprint and condone it, rather than saying what sort of imprint? why does it make the noise? for what reasons?

Stopping in it's second year might happen for a Creche reared , entered well and flying high, but what if it's parent reared, or a open pen reared bird, or a dual imprint?

[Kornie]

Maybe screaming is just a form of communication? And I know for a fact trinity gets less and less sociable as the months go by. Just a thought.

[Shaun Byrne]

Maybe screaming is just a form of communication? And I know for a fact trinity gets less and less sociable as the months go by. Just a thought.

Thats Females for you Kornie. Big males are the future for me mate.

[Tr1gger]

Firstly sorry it took me so long to reply. I got him as a birthday present from a falconer i work with, when he was 1 and a half years old. We usually hunted him once a week, unless we were on holiday and could take him out more. When we got him he was not entered but he had done some work on the dummy bunny but had obviously never chased a real rabbit. At first i thought he could have been an imprint, but at a field meet i met an imprint Harris'' that screamed all the time on the field when Trigger wouldn't make a sound. He seems to like to be around people.

As for a daily routine i would weigh him in the morning about 6:30 I would fly him maybe 7 o'clock and hunt him from 8:00 till 12:00 on Sundays. If u need any more info just ask.

[Ben C]

Not entered for a year? A bit of work with a dummy bunny? Only hunting once a WEEK?

Sounds to me as if it has made a food association, is bored and needs to be given a LOT of activity. I would hazard a guess that it will scream for a long time because it has made a BIG human = food without much work association.

But I could be wrong so wait for the others to let you know Trigg.

[Tr1gger]

I only hunted him once a week but flew him as many times as possible in the mornings throughout the week.

[Ben C]

Yeah but when you were flying him, how did you call him to the fist?

How can you fly but not hunt? I am a bit confused? :)

[Kornie]

I would always be careful of "passed on" birds, unless you know the person you are dealing with well. At least if you get the bird from 14 weeks you know exactly whats what.

I have heard of male harris' being entered after 7 days but a year... For all interested this is a very very very good article.

http://www.onlinefalconry.com/harris.html

For me Troy gets training a male harris' spot on! (ill start a new post aswell actualy)

[Ben C]

Thats more or less how we did it too Kornie my man. Except for the goose!! :)

[Tr1gger]

U can fly the bird from tree to glove without hunting just let the bird fly around and enjoy itself. I call trigger back with a whistle.

[Ben C]

Why not hunt at the same time? I am still confused. :)

[Tr1gger]

The land i fly him on doesnt have much quarry on it. when i go hunting i go to diffrent land and hunt there where there is much for him to kill.

[Tr1gger]

That is a good page Alex thanks for that.

[Shaun Byrne]

I would say the screaming is more down to boredom than food association.

Once the boredom is relieved a little i.e. being taken into the field, the screaming stops.

I'm afraid the best remedy is loads of hunting and plenty of quality kills and feed ups.

If you cant manage this, I'm afraid its either put up with the screaming or let someone else hunt the bird.

[Kornie]

I am a firm beleiver that manning will overcome numerous problems in the field from self hunting to ....other ....stuff. Anyway yeah same ben, I haven't yet managed to get trinity on canada geese lol!

[Ben C]

Aaahhhh got it. :) :)

So it is flying around for a few hours and just comes to the glove via the whistle. Then you go home put him in the weathering and feed her?

[Tr1gger]

Not hours no, but he has his fun for a good amount of time. However i have now been able to get more hunting land that is closer to home for this season i will try ur suggestion H3wka. If this does not help i have a local falconer that could take him out hunting when i cant.

[Ben C]

Trig....I think (IMHO) that the land is only part of the problem. When you use the whistle do you then go home and feed the Harris? How and when is the Harris fed??

How and when was the harris fed BEFORE you got it? What was it used for and how was it kept (display etc). How was it bred and raised??

(please remember I am only a starter my self, so I am only thinking this through as I write, I imagine other with more experience will tell me I am wrong :) :) :) )

[Tr1gger]

He goes back and forth from glove to trees etc he doesnt get called in once then fed up and taken home, i fly him back and forth and he follows on when its windy sometimes he takes off and soars in the wind with no intention of either coming to the glove or flying away but once he soared for mabey five minutes straight he comes to the glove and is then let back off again. He was flew from tree to glove before i got him. Unfortunately i dont no that much about him before he came to me but the previous owner manned him very well and i can touch him wherever i want and he doesnt protest at all he jumps to the glove from his perch and he never deliberately scratched and hurt us in any way shape or form.

[Ben C]

When and how do you feed him?

Sounds like a nice Harris Hawk.........except for the screaming!! :) :)

[Tr1gger]

Nothing is perfect. I would usually feed him up on his kill as he is inexperienced i stopped him at one kill. After flying i would feed him after he had returned to the glove (after a good flight) and then take him home.

[Ben C]

Well I am a bit stumped.....

The problem may have occured before you got him. Mine vocalises as well, but not too bad! I can pretty much put it down to two things. He was a bit young when I got him and due to my in-experience, I fed him a bit too much on the glove (i.e too much direct feeding). Perhaps that was what happened with the previous owner.

However if he hunts well and is placid as you describe I wouldn't worry about your neighbours. Just take them a rabbit pie, wine or offer them sexual favours....................it works for me (well most of the time :) :) :))

[Tr1gger]

or offer them sexual favours....................it works for me (well most of the time :) :) :))

:shock:

i think i will just buy them some ear plugs

[Kornie]

To be honest Ben I think it is irrelavent. The bird screams his arse off now so I suppose there is very little else to do then accept it. Some birds are naturaly vocal.

[Tr1gger]

Good point Alex, mabey Trigg is just vocal we'll just have to wait and see.

[Ben C]

Nope.....he is vocal for a reason, if he is screaming then stops when hunting, it's for a reason. A totally silent Harris is nigh on impossible I suspect. But one that screams at all the things listed by Trigg.......something is wrong, or something has been done wrong. :)

I PERSONALLY think it needs more killing and more hunting (and consequently more land!!). Not entering him for a year was bad management and there is no excuse really.

When did you put him down for the moult?

[Tr1gger]

Not hunting a bird straight away was not my choice.
However i do not beileve that entering a bird straight away is wrong. If a bird was to be flow for demos for 3 years then entered when he is 4, they can still hunt perfectly well.

Put him down in march

[Ben C]

Trigger.....I am not blaming you for ANYTHING. I think the previous owner is a bit mean not to hunt it thats all. NO REFLECTION ON YOU :) :) :) :).

Not entering a Harris Hawk straight away is the wrong way to go IMHO. What is the point in having it??? If its an Ex-demo then I have sympathy, and thats fine. I know of one 'harris hawker' who hasn't entered his hawk after a year, and its NOT a demo for gawds sake :) :)

If yours was a demo then it most probably got all its food on the fist from short flights etc. That will be some sort of food imprint perhaps??? :)

[Tr1gger]

mine wasnt a demo bird to my knowledge and i wasnt haveing a dig at u or anything thats just my opinion. I work at a falconry centre and know a harris' like this. I dont think he is some sort of food imprint as he has shown any sort of violence.

[Ben C]

As I say I am stumped mate :) :) running hard up against my limited knowledge :) :)

But if that hawk wasn't a demo and it wasn't entered for a year then that is just plain WRONG :) :) :)

[Tr1gger]

Oh well he is a brillant flyer and a good hunter, cant wait for the season to start again can u?

[Bird_Dog]

Perhaps you might trying to extinguish the association between your presences and food. I remember reading how Scottish falconers used hack boards to place food on for the eyes to find and feed themselves. The purpose was that the falconer was not become a conditioned stimulus for food. Steve Sharrod (a well known falconer and orthithologist in the US) described a simple device he constructed that allowed the delivery of food in the absence of the falconer. I'll try to describe it here: first you need an alarm clock, the kind that has a key on the back which spins when the alarm goes off. Second you need to suspend a small plastic bucket or cup from the ceiling or above the perched hawk by the bottom. Third you need a spool and string. Cut a notch in the spool and mount it on the key with glue. Attach a string to the spool and to a hook which hold the bucket in a horizontal position. Place the food inside the bucket (it should not be visable to the bird). Set the alarm to go off 30 mins or so and leave. When the alarm goes off... the key turnes and pulls the string attached to the hook which releases the food (i.e., and the bucked being suspended from its bottom tillts downward and the food drops out). The result being that the hawk is fed when you're not there. If you're creative enough you might try using some type of remote control to drop food only when your hawk is silent. Thus you train the bird to be quite inorder to receive food. This may be difficult if the bird is extremely hungry because screaming generally increases with hunger.

-- BIRD_DOG

[Tr1gger]

Yeah thats a good idea, think i could improvise something like that. Thanks. :D

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Trigger - my last male harris behaved rather like you described, silent in the field, but noisy at home.

For those in the previous discussion about this, I had him from 14 weeks, he was entered in the third week of training and hunted every day for his first season. SOME HARRISES ARE JUST NOISY!! Ive yet to meet one that doesnt even squeak or make crooning noises.

Any back to Triggers problem - I found that the best way to minimise screaming (he was free lofted) was to have a routine. He was fed in the morning, so no food screaming, the front of his aviary that faced the house was blanked off. He was also manned (brought into the house to watch the TV with me) for a few hours in the evening. I never had any complaints about noise.

Harrises voices do 'break' after their first year - that is get deeper, I did find that my harrises screaming got less as it got older.

Hope this is of some help

FHF

[Tr1gger]

He stills screams even when i have fed him though. Thats a stumper isnt it. lol :?:

[Coedhirion]

I find it odd that you can take the bird for walks flying from tree to glove, back to tree then he goes for a fly and comes back!! If I tried this with mine and he realised I wasn't trying to put up quarry, he would either head off and self hunt, or return home and sit on the roof and wait for my return. I recon it is partly calling for company. They are sociable birds who live in family groups. Stick them alone in a place and they will call from boredom. If you cant hunt every day, try more stimulus. Toys, Fly to a dragged lure. Martin Hollinshead describes the idea well and the why in his books!! Good luck and I hope you can get more hunting with the bird next year with plenty of kills.

[Ben C]

On the days without hunting: How long does he get to fly each day Trigger? Is this 6 days a week? Do you walk the same route each day?
If you work at a falconry centre, what has the owner told you? Have they got any suggestions as to what the problem might be?

Falmehairedfalconer: How did bringing the Harris in to watch telly help stop yours from screaming (as opposed to just making 'natural' noises??).:) :)

[Varmint]

Sounds like a bored, disassociated Harris thats looking for some company/Stimulus.

My advise would be to feed it up to stuffed on every kill, fly it more often and finish each flight by feeding up on a dead rabbit rather than the fist and start to change your daily routine, incl food shutes in your free loft so that the bird can be fed daily but dissasociate you with food.

It's never gonna be silent, but it will shut up a lot more.

My thoughts for what they are worth?

[Darren]

Oi Varmint...where have you been hiding the last few weeks?....good to see your back lad

[Mr_Colin]

Just out of interest and I opologies if this sounds stupid, (and please don't shout at me) but do people not feed on the glove at all when out flying? I am more talking about getting her on the glove after a bad slip to quarry or if something appears that is likely to upset or scare the bird and you want to keep her under control.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Just out of interest and I opologies if this sounds stupid, (and please don't shout at me) but do people not feed on the glove at all when out flying? I am more talking about getting her on the glove after a bad slip to quarry or if something appears that is likely to upset or scare the bird and you want to keep her under control.

Yes all the time.

[Ben C]

Just out of interest and I opologies if this sounds stupid, (and please don't shout at me) but do people not feed on the glove at all when out flying? I am more talking about getting her on the glove after a bad slip to quarry or if something appears that is likely to upset or scare the bird and you want to keep her under control.

Mr-C this is a very interesting point. I have been led to believe that a well trained harris will come to the glove without an offering. This can happen, and both Lucy and myself have done it, but not for the duration of the whole hunting trip. It is a difficult one to get consistent because the Harris will soon sus it and just not bother. How the proffessionals do it I have no idea.:) :) :)

More often than not I use a VERY small piece of chick, no more than a large thumbnail piece. Alternatively use your lure if she has gone a LONG way or gets blown down the valley. :lol: :lol:

Feeding a little during flying is fine as the hawk is being rewarded for working. But make sure it gets its main feed from a fresh kill. Obviously this won't happen all the time. In which case feed it at home on the lure or disguise the offering from yourself in some way.

IMHO I would not use an offering to calm the hawk but hood her instead.

HARK AT ME, I sound like I know what I am doing.....hopefully some one will give us both a few pointers mate :lol: :lol:

Towards the end of the season I was using only hand signals (no whistle) when working in thick cover. I'd lift my bare left hand and Cody would follow on and perch above the area the quarry was in. I hope that the next step will be landing on the glove, consistently and without an offering. :) :)

[Tr1gger]

Sounds like a bored, disassociated Harris thats looking for some company/Stimulus.

Would giving it company everytime it screamed not get him in to the routine that when he screams he gets what he wants?

[Ben C]

Thats a chicken and egg senario....................He screams because he wants to go hunting. Take him hunting and he stops screaming. There is nothing wrong with him screaming, he is telling you want he wants and what he wants you must provide. :) :)

In this context his screaming is 'normal' and 'expected' don't ya think :) :) :) :) :)

[Tree Sitter]

Have not read the whole thread too many pages but me had a screamer years back and just gave in to the little lady :wink:

Wish I could say by handling her more and spending more time with her she quietened down nope but then birds screaming never did bother me its just their way of talking to us some are just more chatty than others.

Screamers or not the hunting ability is just the same but you may like to move more rural or just pray for neighbours with teenage kids cos dare they moan about the bird you can say well aint as bad as music thump thump thump evey evening

end of the day thems the breaks as Forrest Gump said lifes like a box of chocolates you never know what ya gonna get :lol:

Max

[Kornie]

Ben i wrote a nice long thread explaining why I disagreed with you. but I forgot what I said. :D

[Varmint]

Hi Chaps and chapess's??

Firstly, ask yourself why a bird makes noise?

Most books talk about it being V, V bad and to be avoided but ask the simple question why?

A noisy bird must be a very social bird and very trusting of it's environment, other wise why give it's position away to both quarry and other predators?

Thats why your bird is silent in the hunting filed cause it's figured out that it wont catch anything if it gives the game away!

At home, its a different matter.

It s actually a big compliment to you that it feels comfortable enough to make noise and means that it is very at ease, but that doesnt help you neighbours.

The point im making is that it is really bored and just looking for some stimulouse, be it food or otherwise.

You will notice that your bird makes little or no noise in a strange environment (confidence) but thats only becuase it's ill at ease.

So your objective is to keep it occupied in any way you can and dissasociate yourself from being the main food provider.

This is achieved thru feeding up on a natural carcass at the end of every session, changing predictable routine and offering more boredom breakers like Wings to pluck ect.

It's not a case of pandering to it every time it makes a noise, it's a case of using your brain to figure out a way to avoid it starting in the first place.

Works for me!

[Mr_Colin]

BenC

At the end of the season I was using hand signals to Willow to great success while out hunting. A wave of the bare hand made her follow on and a wave of the gloved hand followed by a tap of the other hand on the glove brought her straight to the glove. Not sure how I achieved it to be perfectly honest but I used alot of positive re-enforcement as in dog training. All I know is it is great during hunting to keep things quiet.

[Kornie]

Mr colin that sounds like a good idea I shall try that this year.

[Adam Barrett]

After just bringing my female harris out of her first moulti have noticed a big differance in her attitude.
In her first year she was pretty much silent apart from the little noise which we have all come to expect from our harrises.

The problem this year is that she is getting very vocal when strangers are will come and talk to you-she is silent with people she recognises such as close family members ect,

Is she showing agression to strangers and if so how is the best way to stop it?
thanks
Adam

[Ben C]

Your part of the pack now mate.....co-operative hunting and all that.

Just avoid strangers :) :) :) :) :) Make everyone part of the pack :) :) :)

Easier said than done and I don't know how to do it either before you ask.

[Adam Barrett]

Dont think i fully understand you mate?
why would co-operative hunting lead to showing aggresion to strangers?
Thanks for your reply mate :)

[Ben C]

I assume that the Harris views any newcomers as a potential threat to the group. Your the alpha female and the bond is getting stronger every year, any stranger may be seen as a threat to the groups dynamics (this is just an off the cuff thought but could be right, perhaps someone will put us both right :) :) )

[Redtail]

Wow that web sits fantastice.thanx kornia :lol:

[Kornie]

Yeah, the host is really very nice as well. Great guy.

[Tr1gger]

Thats why your bird is silent in the hunting filed cause it's figured out that it wont catch anything if it gives the game away!

Its actually a big compliment to you that it feels comfortable enough to make noise and means that it is very at ease, but that doesnt help you neighbours.

So your objective is to keep it occupied in any way you can and dissasociate yourself from being the main food provider.

It's not a case of pandering to it every time it makes a noise, it's a case of using your brain to figure out a way to avoid it starting in the first place.



Thanks for that. I think that might b that reason why he does what he does. it fits in.

P.S sorry took so long to reply my internet has been down