High Soaring Goshawks

[Hawkmaster]

Been meaning to post this for ages. Have any of you used a Gos in waiting on flights? How did you do it and and why?

[Finnish]

I think Dave Jones does this ever time he has a slip. :lol: :lol:

[Ben C]

Get off our patch you accipiter junky..............soaring is for us buteoists :) :)

[Jastreb]

I try it, because I like to try something new.
My imprint female did that for the first time when it was windy day and no trees around us. I gave her then slip and she starts to do that from time to time, when she was in the mood for that. I think it is good for birds condition.
Any of you hawking with Dave Jones comments?
Cheers Jastreb

[Tim Laycock]

Get off our patch you accipiter junky..............soaring is for us buteoists
You are bloody welcome to it!!! :roll: :lol:

A Goshawk should be slipped from the fist and only after a stern chase be allowed to take stand and kill from a tree on the retrove.

You dont set out to cross europe in a top fuel drag car any more than you do drag racing with a grand tourer :!: :wink:

[Jastreb]

Get off our patch you accipiter junky..............soaring is for us buteoists
You are bloody welcome to it!!! :roll: :lol:

A Goshawk should be slipped from the fist and only after a stern chase be allowed to take stand and kill from a tree on the retrove.

You dont set out to cross europe in a top fuel drag car any more than you do drag racing with a grand tourer :!: :wink:

Right m8 BB, the best flights are from the fist!
Cheers Jastreb

[Ben C]

Yawn........................sorry what was that Jastreb??? :) :) :)

Nice metaphor BB.....I like that.......:) :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

I try :wink:

[Hawkmaster]

Mmmm, does not help the original question though does it?

[Tim Laycock]

I suppose not :mrgreen:
The last time I saw a Goshawk waiting on its owner never saw it again :roll: :wink:

[Hawkmaster]

I have also had a Gos go up on a few occaisions and not yet lost one that way. I find it interesting that one could be successfully flown this way and still be as effective as one off the fist.

[Ben C]

Me too HM, me too. But I reckon it would lose out to the Para-buteo on this one mate :) :) At long last!!

[Tim Laycock]

I find it interesting that one could be successfully flown this way and still be as effective as one off the fist.
Agreed. But I can find little or no entertainment in it.

My metaphor for this is-

I love to watch television but I would rather watch a programe I like rather than something I find to be lacklustre by comparison just because it is "on the other side" between the adverts. :lol: :mrgreen: :wink:

[Ben C]

Well try this one then BB.......(now that I am seeing your true colours).

"It is better to have a long and prolonged screw rather than the fast and furious hump of a juvenile" (Jesus, Psalm 16, chapter 2). :) :)

[Hawkmaster]

But I reckon it would lose out to the Para-buteo on this one mate
Personally I have flown HHs and RTs in this way, but they just do not compare to the two females and one male Ferruginous from a soaring position, EVER!

[Finnish]

Pete B had a male Gos that wait's on.

[Hawkmaster]

He flies with Dave Jones too? See guys maybe there is something here the rest of us have just not tried?

[Tim Laycock]

"It is better to have a long and prolonged screw rather than the fast and furious hump of a juvenile"
Thats as maybe, just dont tell my wife that! (Shhhhhhhh!!!) :lol:

they just do not compare to the two females and one male Ferruginous from a soaring position, EVER!
Ferrus do do the soaring thing very well.

[OutFlying]

He flies with Dave Jones too? See guys maybe there is something here the rest of us hav just not tried?


******** :wink:

[Ben C]

Ferregugssgeious (spelling?) Perhaps HM..........but still not as versitle, and they are a bitch to handle, too big, not pack friendly and......well I could go on. Absolutely lovely to look at though and I would love to own one. :) :)

But knowing you Gos junkies and your love of complexity you'll tell me I am wrong!! :) :) :) Freud has a theory for complexity......something to do with......well I'll leave it there! :) :) :) :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

not pack friendly
8)
********
pmsl

[Hawkmaster]

bitch to handle, too big, not pack friendly and......well I could go on
To those comment I will say, personally I have not had a bad tempered one but seen they like that with inexperience people. So not true in all cases.
A great size for punching through hedges of bramble here in Devon and as you have them waiting on they are not heavy. Their when you are is not an eagle so rather comfortable, for a man anyway :evil: They are also not intimidated by seagulls and crows.

They will fly together and I have even flown one with a Kessie and a Harris Hawk and a pair of RTs, but they did live together.

And as far as being able to go on. please do . . . ?

This is not the point guys and am just after exploring the possiblities of what these other people do that i don't, not that is the way I want to fly a Gos, I have a falcon for that, BUT what if . . . .

[OutFlying]

Hm.
Surely the point of flying different hawks at different quarry in different styles is the whole point. Each hawk has its own style or unique qualities which catch the eye. An accipiter for its unique burst of speed which its able to catch game in a style others can't - harris hawks, redtails on the soar catching quarry in a different style. Why down grade the spectacle of a goshawk showing its true potential as a straight match of speed and endurance against it matched quarry, if you want to fly a gos waiting on - buy a falcon.

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

:prayer: 8)

[Ben C]

Or if after ground quarry.................................a Harris. :)

[OutFlying]

Ben, its all about even match ups for quality sport. A gos on rabbits is not a match up. Good sport and quality sport can be had with a harris on rabbits.

[Ben C]

I am not in dis-agrement mate.....HM is the one who wants to 'experiment'...................................... .........

[Coedhirion]

HM is the one who wants to 'experiment'
No experiment, I know of one that used to wait on. It became quite well known in the area for its hunting skills, it was a female. It sadly died from aspi.
The owner now has another gos which was taken on half way through last season. They are on holiday at the moment, but will try and find out if the bird 'just did it' or was trained. It also hunted from the fist as normal, or would 'follow on' Flew over ferrets as well as dogs.
bitch to handle, too big, not pack friendly
You are joking !! :lol: They are not exactly laid back, but that is why some are imprinted!! PR are 'jumpy, or sharp' but that is part of what they are!! There's an awful lot out there being flown as a cast or with other birds. As to being a "bitch to handle" recon it depends on who's doing it !!! :? :wink: :?

[Tim Laycock]

or would 'follow on'
:shock: Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Coedhirion]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Well spelt it out in words of one sylable or watever as he made it sound as if a Gos was an eagle sized agresive thing you just lugged round the country lookin 4 a quick easy slip at sumit !!!! :roll:

[OutFlying]

I would have thought holding the jesses determined the degree of difficulty of the slip - having the gos in a tree would be a massive advantage and you'd have no control of the slip, a bit like fishing in a gold fish bowl.

[Coedhirion]

True, but it depends on time of year, quantity of quarry, type of quarry ie pheasant as aposed to bunny, plus the amount of cover. If you have thick gorse, heather or brambles for the bird to cut through....

[Tim Laycock]

Well spelt it out in words of one sylable or watever as he made it sound as if a Gos was an eagle sized agresive thing you just lugged round the country lookin 4 a quick easy slip at sumit !!!!
I can make head nor tail of this :roll: :rolleyes:

[Coedhirion]

I can make head nor tail of this awww I give in !!
When I said the Gos followed on !! an you said Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Just thought the gos comments were a bit errrr untrue. :roll:

[Tim Laycock]

Fair play!
I diddnt understand thats all. Thanks for the clarification :roll: :mrgreen:

p.s. Read the thread! your comenting on a "Gos" when infact the poster was refering to a Ferru :wink:

[Ben C]

If I had a Gos instead of crashing through bushes or sending it on the soar I would rather walk around all day and find something 'exposed'. If I remember rightly a Gos is quite fast!!!!! :) :) :) :) :)

If the Ferrugsghiousuious (spelling) is so good why are they not as popular? (genuine question not a sarky comment).


OF: I probably shouldn't tell you this as your bound to say something about socks and 'I told you so you bigmouth'. However here goes. My mentor uses PINK LEASHES on all of his BLOODY BIRDS!!!

[OutFlying]

Pink, did you ask to borrow one ?

[Tim Laycock]

If I remember rightly a Gos is quite fast!!!!!
:supz:

If the Ferrugsghiousuious (spelling) is so good why are they not as popular?
My experience of the ferru-
Ferrue will usualy take on and often prefer very long slips-Fact!
The gape on a ferru is enormous-Fact!
On long slips more often than not the ferru has opened whatever it it has taken with one sweep of the beaK, Emptied it with the second sweep and then due to its oversized gape swallowed the farking lot in seconds!!!.
This habbit at best does not make consecutive days sport an option and at worst makes for a lost ferru!!!! :oops: :mrgreen:

[Hawkmaster]

If the Ferrugsghiousuious (spelling) is so good why are they not as popular? (genuine question not a sarky comment).
Blackbird said it all, they are rather gross at it too and will eat rabbits live and screaming while the go down if small enough.

[Jastreb]

Try imprint ferru :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: !

[Tim Laycock]

:shock: :lol:

[Shaun Byrne]

Try imprint ferru :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: !

You try it, see how you like it! :D :D :D

[Tim Laycock]

:lol: lmao

[Jastreb]

Thanks boys, you are realy good friends :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen: !

[SakerYZF]

Has anyone tried kite training a Gos? just to see if its possible, I mean the way I see it is ; best to explore all possibilities then make a judgment based on actual experience i.e., don't knock it till you've tried it bla bla bla :-P, I saw a wild female gos stoop a black bird missed , then rung up above the field till she was speck, pretty spectacular I’ll think anyone would agree:)

[Tim Laycock]

It has been done and is done by an american chap on another list.
I saw a wild female gos stoop a black bird missed , then rung up above the field till she was speck, pretty spectacular I’ll think anyone would agree
Entertaining to watch but not what I care to use a goshawk for.

[OutFlying]

Has anyone tried kite training a Gos? just to see if its possible, I mean the way I see it is ; best to explore all possibilities then make a judgment based on actual experience i.e., don't knock it till you've tried it bla bla bla :-P, I saw a wild female gos stoop a black bird missed , then rung up above the field till she was speck, pretty spectacular I’ll think anyone would agree:)

Do it yourself and find out, it would seem strange that thousands of austringers don't find the need to. Then you can explore and base your reply on experience. While your flying to the kite and not catching, most gosses will be chasing and learning skills applicable to hunting.

OF.

[Wightwings]

pmsl...........thats a no then OF............lol

[Liam Hay]

I saw a wild female gos stoop a black bird missed , then rung up above the field till she was speck, pretty spectacular I’ll think anyone would agree:)

u sure it was a FEMALE GOS ?? :evil:

[Tim Laycock]

Doubt it was! :lol:

[SakerYZF]

Sure was, know my birds, infact it was a young female at that :) Im sure theirs no reason you would train a gos to a kite, just interesting possibilities that’s all, exploring all the doors etc.

[Chris Hawke]

I try it, because I like to try something new.
My imprint female did that for the first time when it was windy day and no trees around us. I gave her then slip and she starts to do that from time to time, when she was in the mood for that. I think it is good for birds condition.
Any of you hawking with Dave Jones comments?
Cheers Jastreb


no trees around, seems the key here!

[Dan Bray]

I cant understand why anyone would want to fly a gos from waiting on. If thats what you want to see get a longwing which will do a better job of it.

[Chris Hawke]

I cant understand why anyone would want to fly a gos from waiting on. If thats what you want to see get a longwing which will do a better job of it.

certain people may want to try it because they can, (or might be able to)
because the act itself is so extraordinary, and difficult
just for the crack, if it can be done in a focused ,controlled manner, why not. im not on about using it to give the hawk an unfair advantage over quarry, just to enhance the relationship, in certain situations. i dont see why a gos should be limited by convention and tradition, when the only constant thing in life is change, if we always do what weve always done, we'll always get what we always got. its not something i'd like to see all the time, but my interest in the gos is fuelled by its versatility, flight styles and attack strategies. so its possible a situation may arise where theres an oportunity to think out of the box and allow my hawk the freedom to do the same.

[Sean White]

I cant understand why anyone would want to fly a gos from waiting on. If thats what you want to see get a longwing which will do a better job of it.

Same could be said of waiting on flights with a Harris.... comments ?

[Dan Bray]

Same could be said of waiting on flights with a Harris.... comments ?

If I wanted waiting on flights I wouldnt use a Harris either. :rolleyes:

[Sean White]

If I wanted waiting on flights I wouldnt use a Harris either. :rolleyes:

Interesting.... why is that ?

[Dan Bray]

Interesting.... why is that ?

Why is that.... because a peregrine would be my 1st choice and would make a much better bird for it. I've got nothing against Harris hawks mate, I fly one myself(or did until the end of this season).

[Sean White]

Why is that.... because a peregrine would be my 1st choice and would make a much better bird for it. I've got nothing against Harris hawks mate, I fly one myself(or did until the end of this season).

Fair comment.

[SparsTheOne]

Chris if you were to try this style of hunting, you would have to do it with an imprint goshawk, And seeing as though this will be your first gos, an imprint gos is twice the work, I,ve been toying with the idea of doing an imprint this season and I,m STILL NOT SURE about it and i,ve flown quite a few goses male and female,and only one imprint that was the gos x black spar, but I never reared him.
Theres alot of routine that goes into an imprint to keep them where you want them to be and to keep them progressing in the hunting life(not that theres isn,t alot with P/R)But its not as remanding as an imprint goshawk,break the routine or upset the hawk,without knowing you did and you could end up with a face full of feet,its not pleasant,I,ve had two P/R goshawks strike me in the face and both times I was lucky they didn,t take my eye out.
I know your trying to get as much info on hunting goses as you can, but start at the bottom of the goshawk ladder and step up one run at a time and you will achieve your goal in the end.

ATB jase.

[Chris Hawke]

Chris if you were to try this style of hunting, you would have to do it with an imprint goshawk, And seeing as though this will be your first gos, an imprint gos is twice the work, I,ve been toying with the idea of doing an imprint this season and I,m STILL NOT SURE about it and i,ve flown quite a few goses male and female,and only one imprint that was the gos x black spar, but I never reared him.
Theres alot of routine that goes into an imprint to keep them where you want them to be and to keep them progressing in the hunting life(not that theres isn,t alot with P/R)But its not as remanding as an imprint goshawk,break the routine or upset the hawk,without knowing you did and you could end up with a face full of feet,its not pleasant,I,ve had two P/R goshawks strike me in the face and both times I was lucky they didn,t take my eye out.
I know your trying to get as much info on hunting goses as you can, but start at the bottom of the goshawk ladder and step up one run at a time and you will achieve your goal in the end.

ATB jase.

Cheers Jase
p/r for me, being my first gos, all these ideas are just pie in the sky really, as you know i have no hands on experience, when it all becomes reality, i may find it all very much harder than i think.
im certainly well aware that im starting on the bottom rung, and plan to leave no stone unturned. thanks for the advice and well wishes,
Oh yeah, my old red tail smashed me twice, once in the back of the head, and once in the face,definately not recommended for the faint hearted or the good looking.
atvb
chris
_____________________

"MAY THE HAWK BE WITH YOU":wink:

[Hawkmaster]

Never mind Chris we all had to start somewhere!:lol:

[Dude]

I never tried, but happened a few times with my imprint sparrowhawk. If she chased sumting and it goes in a lonely bush she started to wait on above the bush till I flush the birdie for her again, but its only a few seconds...

I friend of mine tried to teach his imprint female gos for ringing flights. He was go out with the bird to lonely tree standing on bald hilltop. The bird was flown into the tree and my friend wait till the bird want to fly. For a few weeks it worked, but when the bird learned to catch young trushes from the tree under the hill she never does it again.

I think its possible just the gos have to catch sumthing with this technic first and it has to be hilly terrain without trees.

I saw many wild goses hunting in our steppes from high ringing flights on house pigeons.