DOES SIZE MATTER / IS BIGGER BETTER

[Dave Whitt]

Why do falconers think that bigger is better ?
Recentally I have been flying a mates bird pere x barbary a few days ago I was taliking to someone who also has a pere x barbary he enquired about the weight of the bird I told him it was currentally 15 3/4 oz but still needed to come down a bit his reply was " bloody hell that small mine is 1lb 4oz it wont be much good at that weight" now in my opinion for the quarry my mate is intending to fly Lark, Snipe, Magpies, Blackbirds and Partridge much the same as with a female Perlin I thing this will be great, people seem to think the bigger the bird is the better it will be, breeders sell birds by size (the larger the more expensive) and colour, colour I can understand to a certain extent but size why ?

[OutFlying]

Size is relative to the intended quarry.

[Ben C]

It should be small hawk big quarry.

[OutFlying]

It should be an even match, why over face a hawk / falcon ? It all about flying the correct species at the right species.

[Ben C]

True, but if its was totally even then nothing would happen. When I say big OF I mean say 1 5oz hawk/falcon with something a couple of times bigger...3lb rabbit say. I would not intentionally put a smaller hawk up against a fox for example. :P :wink:

[OutFlying]

merlin - lark, pipit...........spar - blackbird........perlin - snipe........male gos - partridge. tiercel - patridge..........falcon - pheasant, duck.


Notice the first 2 match ups, very similar in size - possibly some of the best sport visually available. A lot happening.

[Ben C]

Very true. Key word is visual. Also speed and manouverability plays its part in the balance between them.

What about the bigger beasts, Eagles on deer for example. How would you rate em? (genuine question).

[OutFlying]

It doesn't really interest me Ben, it is more of a show of the eagles courage more than an even contest of speed and agility. The best flights I've seen are merlins at larks and pipits - full on aerial dog fights.

[Ben C]

How long do they last?? Have you seen the footage of Bob Daltons Aplomado's and Plover?

[OutFlying]

It all depends Ben, if you get a ringing flight - they seem to go on forever but in reality I don't know, you become to engrossed in the flight to notice. But I've seen them speck out and then come down in the stoop and then disappear into the distance.

No haven't seen Bob Daltons video.

[Ben C]

Sounds very similar to the aplomado...........his film is poor quality but the flights go on and on and on. Not high but round and round and round, in very hot temperatures. Get a copy you'll love it.

I must say both Lucy and myself were very impressed with the Merlin we saw (not hunting), exceedingly pretty and its size does not give any indication of its heart. In fact would you say that the smaller the falcon the braver and more determined (merlin, sparrohawk, perlin, aplomado etc etc) or does it just seem that way?

[OutFlying]

probably just seems that way Ben, but in the wild spars and merlins will have to catch a couple of times a day - a lot more success needed than the bigger hawks or falcons to survive - maybe that has something to do with it.

[Ben C]

Also I suppose because their natural quarry is winged they have to be more aggressive, whereas a kestrel catches ground quarry and is therefore less explosive?? Although hovering for that amount of time is pretty determined in my book. :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

New Zealand falcon at partridge and corvids interests me. Its about the only falcon that does.

[Ben C]

What and why?

Ever heard of a Bat Falcon?

[Tim Laycock]

What and why?
:?:
Ever heard of a Bat Falcon?
No :mrgreen:

[Ben C]

Sorry mate.

What is a New Zealand falcon and how does it fly?

A Bat Falcon is miniture.......I found one in a very old Bird of Prey book we use at school. Its no bigger than a cockateil. Tiny tiny thing, probably only good for insects but because it was called a Bat Falcon it got me thinking. :)

[Tim Laycock]

New Zealand falcon- The only falcon with accipitrine features and tendancys (short wings,long tail)
Will hunt in cover but has the endurance to chase the quarry over the horizon in level flight and the desire ring up if it is required 8)

[Ben C]

Pictures, breeders etc etc? Sounds about the best of both worlds....kept that secret Tim. :wink: :wink:

[OutFlying]

Nick Fox has bred them, not a secret Ben - all his books mentioned them. Don't think they've been successful in this country though, maybe not enough bred or flown...

[Tim Laycock]

maybe not enough bred or flown
Exactly m8. only a few were brought in so it they were bred too much you would just end up with inbreds.
Shame

[Dave Whitt]

It would be nice to see one fly, in Nick Foxes video Northumberland Crow Falcons he flies a New Zeland cross and it flew very well. however we still have not answered the question of why some breeders charge more for a bigger bird than a smaller one ?

[OutFlying]

Because people will pay more

[Tim Laycock]

Its the big "I am" factor

[Sean]

i know use are saying merlins on larks and things, but today i watched a seagull bomb a spar for about 10 mins above my house and i found that fun to watch, the spar was so agile while the seagull was trying it hardest. and i liked the lil pere in northumberland crow falcons hunting the starlinsg that looked fun too

[Osiris]

The bat falcon (Falco rufigularis) appears to have a preference for consuming bats, although they do not make up the majority of its diet. Their diet consists mainly of small birds and large insects, which include dragonflies (Odonata), moths (Lepidoptera), large grasshoppers (Orthopera), Homoptera, and Hymenoptera. The diet of the bat falcon varies by seasons and is divided into summer and winter diets. This shift in diet is affected by the change in the most abundant and nutritious prey obtainable. The summer diet consists of mostly birds and during winter, mostly insects. The bat falcon hunts during periods of dusk to dawn and is considered nocturnal.

LOL

Never heard of them b4!

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Falco_rufigularis.html

[Liam Hay]

New Zealand falcons have been a good success in this country i have known one or two fly them with loads of fun.

Back to the question size does and dos'nt matter it depends what birds u r talking about ie a finnish female would be better than a germn female at hares etc

[Tim Laycock]

a finnish female would be better than a germn female at hares etc
More capable perhaps but more sporting :?:

[WannabeApprentice]

isnt that bat falcon basically like an american kestrel

[Tim Laycock]

isnt that bat falcon basically like an american kestrel
Dunnow? I know I dont want one because I aint got night vision! :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

[Ben C]

Perhaps we pay more for bigger birds because there is more of them, so they eat more etc etc. I suspect the bigger birds are generally female and so are more valuable in terms of breeding etc etc. Maybe it goes way back to the beginings of the sport.

However big is not always best, is it?

[Tim Laycock]

You generaly pay more for females because they are considdered to be more of an asset.
Eight times out of ten you always show more sport with a female.
(Of course there are some exceptions to this)

[Ben C]

Having said that BB, I can't believe a sparrowhawk costs less than a Harris. I also can't believe you can get a Peregrine for £500.

How do you measure nature in this way? It all seems a bit arbitrary to me.

[Tim Laycock]

It has nothing to do with the birds worth just peoples perception of it.

If right was right, To my mind harris hawks would be the price thay are and a female spar would cost a grand. Maybe two? :D

[Ben C]

I should be a sliding index in terms of how hard they are to train perhaps. Starting at around £500 for a Harris! :)

[Tim Laycock]

What do I get for £300 then :lol:

[OutFlying]

3/5 of an harris

[Ben C]

That'll get you something well easy like a peach faced lovebird. :) Or a Pigeon. :)

£300 WILL NOT GET YOU A HARRIS AT ALL MATE......far to precious.

[Tim Laycock]

I want a Harr..............Turkey M8 :lol: :mrgreen: lmao

[Ben C]

****** :) :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

Ask and you shall recieve. :finga: :lol: :lol: