Ideas for new mews project

[Mr_Colin]

Well my plans for my new mews at my house are well underway thanks to Mikey. But I was wondering if I can steal some more advice from people just before building starts and any pics of suggestions would be great. The topics are as follows;

Food Shute. I want one in place but have no idea what to have. Pics of food shutes please.

Perches. What type of perches do you have, natural or man made? Advice on placement as well.

Boredom Busters. Has anyone ever thought of anything to keep the bird amused during times I have to work?

As I said pics would help my mate (who is a builder) to put these in place as well as descriptions.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Colin

[Ben C]

Mr C:
Do not use natural branches, particularly old and brittle ones. Your Harris will decimate them, fly into them and perhaps damage it's eye! (however OF rates em so I may be wrong). Make them from wood, give them a good coating of ronseal (so no blood and guts get soaked into the wood) and attach them length ways across the mews and cover in astro turf ALL the way round. Have quite a few and make sure one is nice and high so Willow can feel safe at night.

:D :D :D :D

[Liam Hay]

whatever perches u use the worst thing for a hawk is when it can't brake b4 landing. make sure there are not to close it can't brake after setting of this will only cause bruising, this causes bumblefoot, bumblefoot leads to the vets!

[Mr_Colin]

your not wrong there.

Ben you are the only one I know who doesnt like natural perches, is this because of Cody's eye. Everyone around me uses only natural branches, how-ever they make sure that they do not have too many nobley bits and the beauty of this is they can be changed when ever youlike. Does nayone else have any thoughts on this?

[BlackHawke]

i use branches in my aviary long, rubbed down and painted. the length of them make them flexible, when jade takes of or lands on em they flex.im making another aviary at the mo i'm gonna put branches in their to. personal preference. the only thing i will say about making an aviary is never make anything permanent you will always move stuff about.

i've also put bits of astro turf in various places on the perches, reason for this is choice, your bird may not wanna perch on astroturf.

[BlackHawke]

this new aviary will also double up as a kennel in a few year when i breed my springer! i've seen the damage 1 can do!!!!

[Ben C]

The thing with me was I just cut em up and put em straight in. Because of my lack of knowledge I had underestimated what a Hawk does all day. I sort of assumed he would just hop about or sit still. It did not occur to me he would break up the twigs, throw them around with his feet, chuck rocks about, put stuff in his water. He has been very active and amusing.

I am just paranoid about his eye thats all. Its your choice, but I know OF uses em as do many others.......however Varmint doesn't like them!! :) :) :) :)

[Shaun Byrne]

I used to use branches but now prefer treated timber.

I use banister rail, treated and covered in astro. Lasts for years and very easy to hose down.

[NightOwl]

those diagonal perches - do they really cause alot of tail damage???

[Ben C]

Nighty:

They did for me. Particularly if you use mesh on the mews. They push the fins of the feather all over the place. :) :)

[Gozzhawk]

Was gonna decribe new falcon mews being built at present , but on reading thread it appears its advice on Aviary design . In that case anything goes , varied surfaces , varied positions , let the bird choose .
On boredom toys ... EEOwl has hard dog balls , Used KONG dog toys with hybrid eagles with hamsters stuffed inside , balls with HH, even tennis ball. If bird is cute ( intelligent) cut some plastic pipe drill big holes t shape and screw cap on end , put tid bits inside and bird will roll it about and chuck it about till food comes out , corvids love it!!

[Sean]

whatever perches u use the worst thing for a hawk is when it can't brake b4 landing. make sure there are not to close it can't brake after setting of this will only cause bruising, this causes bumblefoot, bumblefoot leads to the vets!

Coudl you go into a little more detail pchay pls? im about to start my mews any day now you see

[Mr_Colin]

Was gonna decribe new falcon mews being built at present , but on reading thread it appears its advice on Aviary design . In that case anything goes , varied surfaces , varied positions , let the bird choose .
On boredom toys ... EEOwl has hard dog balls , Used KONG dog toys with hybrid eagles with hamsters stuffed inside , balls with HH, even tennis ball. If bird is cute ( intelligent) cut some plastic pipe drill big holes t shape and screw cap on end , put tid bits inside and bird will roll it about and chuck it about till food comes out , corvids love it!!

You can describe new Falcon Mews if you like Gosshawk. By the way I like the sound of the pipe toy for the HH. Does it work and does it have any implications if the bird breaks up the pipe. Have you got a pic of it that you can post on the thread?

Thanks

[Mr_Colin]

Nothing on here about food shutes yet. I would love to see a pic of anyones if they can ablige. TA

[Ben C]

I hope I don't get into trouble for this. But I scanned this from Varmints book. You can win a copy at the bash mate :) :) :) :)

[Mr_Colin]

Excellent buddy, I see you still struggling with that moire effect :butthead:

That's the kind of thing I need. I promise I wont tell Varmint.

HEY VARMINT, can you get a whole quail through that?

[Ben C]

No it has to be cut into pieces.......look at the pic :finga: :snakeman: :butthead: :butthead:

[Mr_Colin]

What and do the work for the bird? :roll:

[Ben C]

Yep and don't forget to wipe its bum after mate :) :) :)

Seriously though, get a big ole drainage pipe if you want to give her whole stuff. :)

[Mr_Colin]

Your Strange Ben, Cody owns you. :lol: :finga:

Not long to the bash mate, got some prints done for ya.

[Ben C]

I am his bitch mate...................AND I LOVE IT!!! :) :)

[Kornie]

I have wild visions of a hand appearing out the drain awaited by a hungry hawk. Who foots the falconer who looks like a prat sitting on the other side with his hand in a very awkward position....

lol!

[Ben C]

Tongs?

[Kornie]

lol yeah. Or you could just chuck it or drop it in without pulling your arm all the way down.

[Ben C]

Or get a creche reared hawk :) :) :)

[Kornie]

or F.O.F.

[Ben C]

Nope..........whats that?

[Kornie]

Feed Off Fist.

[Ben C]

Naahhhh bad practice mate......food association????? Stress????? (However I could be wrong I normally am :) :) :) :) )

[Kornie]

Yes I can see how feeding off the fist, feeding your bird is bad practise after all

1. Your being dominant by allowing your bird to feed.
2. Your bird isnt looking on the ground picking up food which it can "find itself" with no help from the falconer (which may cause self hunting)
3. The bird gets used to eating with you nearby.

These are my thought on Feeding off the fist ben. I agree there would be a problem if your bird associates you with food. In a non hunting raptor i could see this as an issue. But trinity would still rather chase a rabbit then come to the fist...which to me works fine :)

|Out of interest what stress is there feeding a bird off the fist?

p.s. I dont feed off fist every day.

[Kornie]

Forgot to add. Not in the moult either sorry...

[Ben C]

I have no idea what stress there is.....Harris Hawks get stress marks for no apparent reason. What is stressful for us could be tolerated by a Harris and vice versa. My vet told me that and he has bred them for years.

Ultimately mate, if it works for you and ole Trinny then fine. I am just cautious. I suspect (but cannot garauntee) that the whole 'isolation during the moult' comes from using the higher strung hawks of old and not the 'laid back' Harris. I also suspect that most are PR and therefore more testy in terms of interaction with humans

Personally speaking I like to dis-associate myself from the feeding as much as possible (although cody has blatantly sussed me :) )). But thats because the lure will be KING this season, in order to get up them windy hillsides (I fed from kills mainly last season)

Ben

[Kornie]

Oh, didnt realise you were usinbg a lure. Each to there own mate I agree. I be careful also not to be associated too much with food.

[Tim Laycock]

Naahhhh bad practice mate......food association????? Stress?????

Ben.
Im confused(Leave it! :rolleyes: ) do you mean with an imprint,creche reared or paren reared?
Do you mean through the moult?
I dont understand. :?

[Ben C]

BB:

I am thinking along the lines of NOT feeding off the fist DURING the moult for a creche and PR hawk ONLY. Now please don't get me wrong, because I could be way WAY off the mark. However 4 or 5 months of DIRECT feeding would cause an association of sorts would it not? Perhaps I am being a little sensitive about my hawk?

Bottom line is, I want a hawk that 'hangs around' because it wants to, not because its hungry and knows I am an easy source of food. :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

I dont know a great deal about creche reared hawks Ben but it is my belief that a P/R hawk should be fed on the fist every day except when put down for breeding.
Bottom line is, I want a hawk that 'hangs around' because it wants to not because its hungry.
The way to a hawks heart is through its stomach and a bird fed on the fist through the moult can be brought back into yarak much faster than one that has not :D

[Dave G]

well ben c you could always find out if your cody wants to fly to you for food or because he wants to fly him over weight mmm if he f*** off then all he wanted was you for food lol,

[Ben C]

BB:

I have no problem cutting weight, I've seen the response it got in Cody last year. You know........'newbie dithers at a stupid weight, mentor gives bollocking after loss, newbie cuts weight, hawk turns into psycho' :) that sort of thing. :)

However (and I am willing to be wrong) if you feed a hawk from the fist for 4/5 months won't it start to view you as some sort of parent/food provider EVEN when its older?? Then produce problem behaviour, too much screaming, footing perhaps, mantling????

(i am sure you know this but :)) Creche reared hawks feed for themselves from a minuture age and food is provided by slight of hand (like an imprint i assume). They spend their days with lots of other different BOP and owls. Human contact is provided by lots of people visiting the centre with kids etc etc looking at the ramagers and branches as they grow up together through the mesh. Then they are seperated from the owls etc and penned but with a 360 view of the world and its paying customers. :) :)

My feeding during the moult is basically a continuation of the slight of hand and the 'busy' nature of the centre. I have no idea what other peoples hawks are like. But after 4 months without manning, I picked him up on the fist, hooded him and drove to the vets without a single bate and all in one sweet action!!! During his swab test etc he dropped down to his hunting weight of 700 grammes and was SILENT.

I could have this all wrong mind, and from what little experience I have it seems that falconers all have their own 'secret' receipe. Different ways to skin a cat if you like :) :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

Ben.
Is Cody creche reared?
I have no problem cutting weight, I've seen the response it got in Cody last year. You know........'newbie dithers at a stupid weight, mentor gives bollocking after loss, newbie cuts weight, hawk turns into psycho' that sort of thing.
:lol:
However (and I am willing to be wrong) if you feed a hawk from the fist for 4/5 months won't it start to view you as some sort of parent/food provider EVEN when its older?? Then produce problem behaviour, too much screaming, footing perhaps, mantling????
You are right in thinking this but A. I dont mind these traits :twisted: and B. they are all offset by the amount of game caught with the bird. Catch a lot of game, manage well and these traits will rapidly recede and gradualy disapear altogether.
(i am sure you know this but ) Creche reared hawks feed for themselves from a minuture age and food is provided by slight of hand (like an imprint i assume). They spend their days with lots of other different BOP and owls. Human contact is provided by lots of people visiting the centre with kids etc etc looking at the ramagers and branches as they grow up together through the mesh. Then they are seperated from the owls etc and penned but with a 360 view of the world and its paying customers.
Sounds very similar to a social imprint to me m8. I have always trained crech reared hawks as I would parent rerared.

When you moult your hawk do you fatten it as much as you can or simply raise its weight four or five ounces?

Different ways to skin a cat! Too right.
If we all did things the same we would have nothing to talk about!!! 8) :lol:

[Ben C]

I trained Cody he same as a PR too. Yep I also think it is a social imprint of sorts. He is very bold and very friendly, SS has the same traits in his creche reared too.

The way I have moulted him was to fatten him up to a good weight for a couple of weeks which was coincidentally around 4 to 5 ounces. But after advice on here I changed the feeding times to the afternoon and made sure he ate a huge crop each meal. Sometimes this meant skipping a days rations so he was nice and hungry :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

I like to freeloft my birds through the moult but I only increase weight by a couple or three ounces.(They are still weighed every day)
I feed on the fist 365 days a year.
(Obviously not with "Ros" in the first year. she will no doubt scream enough as it is!! :lol: 8) )

[Ben C]

That is very interesting mate, is this normal to feed from the fist 365 days and do you feed using the lure as well during the moult?

Why only a few ounces? What about the standard of just leaving them alone for the entire moult? I can never understand that :)

Your methods are totally oppersite to mine..........that usually means I am doing it wrong. :) :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

That is very interesting mate, is this normal to feed from the fist 365 days and do you feed using the lure as well during the moult?
It is for me m8. I Know another shortwinger that does this too.
As a rule with p/r birds I dont use the lure unless absolutely necessary Why only a few ounces? What about the standard of just leaving them alone for the entire moult? I can never understand that
I go on the assumption that a wild bird would not fatten itself up unduly for the moult. leaving the bird alone without handling is "for the birds"
I have seen falconers go into an aviary after the moult and the hawk has smashed its self to bits. why go through totaly manning down an accipiter from scratch. its like a kick in the ********!!!
Your methods are totally oppersite to mine..........that usually means I am doing it wrong.
I wouldnt be bothered about it Ben. as you say different ways to skin a cat.
Two people can set out, travel a totaly different route and arrive at the same place at the same time 8)

[Ben C]

Also I am going by the condition my hawk is in and other than his eye problem (swab results monday), he is in tip top fettle and suitable happy :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

Good stuff! :D :wink:

[Sean]

"whatever perches u use the worst thing for a hawk is when it can't brake b4 landing. make sure there are not to close it can't brake after setting of this will only cause bruising, this causes bumblefoot, bumblefoot leads to the vets!"

can anyone go more into detail to this?

[Mikey]

Colin..i followed HM's advice regarding perches.After much thought his idea seems best...shelf perches prevent the bird from pointing it backside at the walls(a little less mess).Natural branches strategically placed(they'd use the trees in the wild!!)Some people have swinging perches,wich will obviously benefit by give strength to the feet,coordination and balance to body and mind.

[Mr_Colin]

Hiya Mikey,

With regard to shelf perches, i see from your pics they are near the corners. Would this cause much feather damage as the bird turned round? Anyone else have thhoughts on this? Do you get this Hawkmaster?

[Ben C]

Do not use real branches, they can do damage to your bird in a CONFINED SPACE. Unless they are properly trimmed down, in which case its just as easy to use man made perches with astro turf. :) :) :)

[Mr_Colin]

Sorry Ben but I have to disagree with you on this one, Cody aside, I do not think real branches damage your bird normally, not if you have shaved all the spikey bits off a good branch. This is just my opion mate, but I feel everyone will have their own preferance through experience with different types. Every Falconry Centre I have been to use natural perches, so not all birds get damaged.

Besides that, How's Cody doing? You got the swabs back yet?

[Ben C]

Nope the swabs ain't back but the vet says that fine, anything wrong and they would have come straight back.

Mr C: Its your hawk so I am happy for you to agree to disagree with me mate :) :) :) Thats what the sites all about after all :)

[Mr_Colin]

Too true. :supz:

[Tim Laycock]

You have confused me with the real branches thing too Ben :rolleyes:

Hawks land in trees m8 :lol: :mrgreen:

[Ben C]

Mate: I'll tell you at the Barby, its way too insignificant to blather about on here. :) :)

[Tim Laycock]

:D Oki-Kokey

[Mikey]

I do have peches in the corners colin,i also have other shelves on the flat walls,along with swing perch and a nice oak branch.These are all dotted around so my hawk can choose to sit where it likes.As i do not have my bird for another week just over....i will wait n see .....i may have to alter or remove some things.But in any mews you're going to have perches near a wall or corner..unless you have sky hooks,i can"t see how you'd avoid it totally.I too,would like some input from 'the masters" on this.

[Mr_Colin]

I have Pm'ed Hawkmaster on the Branch issue, hopefully he will reply by pm or on this thread. It's an interesting point and one I will raise at the bash to people but I hope the more experienced guys can give their thoughts on here as well. If not I might start a new thread.

[Ben C]

I am certainly no master more like a.................:) :)

I just found with the diagonal perches that when the hawk turns round he ******s his tail feathers (see first posting at start of thread). Having the hawk parallel to the mews wall seems to make him jump forwards onto another perch rather than walk along the perch and then turn round!!! I have no idea why because I an not a Harris Hawk.:) Also with the perch going from one side to the other the hawk seems to sit in the middle more and so when turning not touch the walls with his feathers. Why? Who knows. This is JUST FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE though so others may do it differently. :) :)