the mind of the (parent reared) sparrowhawk

[Wilfred]

I am now with my first sparrowhawk since a week. Have read some books about the sparrowhawk and have some experience, but still am wondering about the mind of the sparrowhawk...as it is completely different from falcons and also the goshawk i think.

Maybe the people having flown a sparrowhawk could tell something about what they think is different. In the several stages of training and also hunting. With useful tips.

At the moment I try to get her jumping to the fist. Yesterday she was at 230 gram. But did not feel like jumping...only got her to jump from 5 cm or so...today I tried again. Before starting she did not want to leave the fist holding the gauntlet quite long...then she loosened a bit and stepped over to the box i put her on. And then i tried for 5 minutes but could not get her to come to the fist....it's really hard i guess she's for now to high in weight still.I will try again later this afternoon.

Any tips are welcome. Well...i'm now going to try again whether i can get her to jump now...

[OutFlying]

Any progress ? Top weight to response weight, how much weight loss ? It would be good to compare to the imprint.

You are right about the difference between a spar and a gos, the spar is more highly strung.

Jim.

[Wilfred]

Any progress ? Top weight to response weight, how much weight loss ? It would be good to compare to the imprint.

You are right about the difference between a spar and a gos, the spar is more highly strung.

Jim.

Well Jim...thanx for the response. Actually I posted some response on weight also in other subject right now answering on some other post of you. It's just that she's still too high. So not much progress now. But I know the reason so no use of short term thinking and bothering about logic things.

[Wilfred]

today response weight was about 225 gram. And response was quite good second time (we let her flew twice to the fist). But both my friend (being austringer for about 25 years now) and also I think that my spars response should also be OK at higher weight, i mean that not having response is not mainly the weight matter but more "will to please" that has to be build up with getting more trust and conditioning. So tomorrow I will just try to get response at 230 grams or so.

[Tim Laycock]

the mind of the (parent reared) sparrowhawk

The mind of a parent reared spar must be a very scary place.
Life passes by a sparrowhawk at a rate a Goshawk would struggle to come to terms with let alone a human being.(Sometines even a spar cannot handle it)

I am at a loss to think of a bird more difficult than the parent reared spar.
Any falconer that can achieve Consistent success with one is deserving of much praise.

[OutFlying]

today response weight was about 225 gram. And response was quite good second time (we let her flew twice to the fist). But both my friend (being austringer for about 25 years now) and also I think that my spars response should also be OK at higher weight, i mean that not having response is not mainly the weight matter but more "will to please" that has to be build up with getting more trust and conditioning. So tomorrow I will just try to get response at 230 grams or so.

Wilfred,
With a top weight of 260 grams, poor response weight of 225 grams - what weight do you envisage her hunting at ? The reason for imprinting a spar was to enable her to be flown in higher condition than a p/r spar - if you achieve entering your spar at these weights it will be a great achievement. Usually a p/r spar is flown lean at first and then gradually increases as the season progresses - with your aim of a starting weight it will be flying above penning weight.

OF.

[OutFlying]

Walking in the woods over the weekend the 2005 wild young spars could be heard screaming in the woods. Mustn't have got this hunting game worked out yet, I wonder how lean these are ?

OF.

[Wilfred]

[quote="OutFlying
Wilfred,
With a top weight of 260 grams, poor response weight of 225 grams - what weight do you envisage her hunting at ?
OF.[/quote]

well..it is just that i want to try whether I can get her to the fist at little bit higher than the 225. Since i just think that indeed the fact she does not come yet on that weight is more matter of begin afraid and that this gradually decreases. And i am not in that of a hurry to bother about 2 or 3 days more of training.

And I envisage her hunting just on the highest weights possible of course. But will see how she develops and decrease weight of course if it is really necessary. But my friend already flown spars and he saw the bird and he thought she could maybe be trained at higher weights.

By the way...at my friends place i just went into the room. She sat very quietly on the fist while i was talking with the other people there (does not bother her at all) and she's just very at ease with people, dogs and cars at this stage. Maybe also because i just did not use the hood till now.

[OutFlying]

How long have you been manning her now ?

[Wilfred]

How long have you been manning her now ?

for about 2 weeks. Actually about since I got her. Like I said yesterday she was at 225 and good response. But today she was 220 ( I had expected her higher) and I got to the field immediately. But response was even less then yesterday...maybe also because of other surrounding. I gave her quite full crop and will als give her something tomorrow morning for sure. And then i'll see for evening on which weight she is then. And just train her again.

When she did came today, first time was still good response. But second time lasted too long. But, she smashed on the glove pretty hard with her small tallons.

[OutFlying]

how's she doing now ?

[Wilfred]

well...actually i will have to take her down little bit more still...response is just too less. it's a fact I still have to find correct weight for her for next days training succes.

[OutFlying]

Wilfred,
Keep the updates coming, it will be good to hear the details regarding conditioning and weight management for a p/r spar as opposed to an imprint or creche reared one.

Jim.

[HawkMan]

Im minding a musket at the moment wilfred its 4 1/2 oz m8 it flew to me last night about 4ft ,i only tried it once as i was scared incase it got loose ,ive never seen a sparrow hawk close up until tuesday but they are nice birds .
All the best
Johnny

[Wilfred]

in my previous post i told that i had to bring her down more. Now i think it might not be necessary if i just be patience and build up the conditioning. Because, today i trained her when she was about 225 grams (which is little bit higher then when I posted and she did not came to me) but now it was much better response. Not as it should be, but better.

Before I got to the field I just walked some half an hour or so through the village. She was not afraid of cars or people anymore in fact she is not since one day after I got her. Then I went to my "training"field which is really big (maybe even 1 square kilometre, or little less...). First time she flew about 4 metres. Which is quite good since last time it was 3 metres and that took some more time. Response was quicker. Second flight on the fist i wanted to give her some whole quail leg if she would come (just like first flight to me) but actuall when she came I made some kind of mistake. By walking some steps while she came to me. By doing so she missed the fist and flew over. Then I wanted to get her to me but that did not work quick enough. So ik got to her and let her jump high to the fist. That she did immediatelly. I decided to give her only some small titbit and put her on the block again (use some falcon block now). Then I called her from about 5 metres. Not immediate response but still quite quick already. Then I gave her quite a lot and it was OK for today.

I am very satisfied with today's result. i think response will anyway be better and quicker even if I keep her at about 225 grams of weight before training. Lowering weight further down would certainly help for now, but for long term i will just try to keep her at weight and just spend some more days then. Well..i mean...i will try to keep her around 225 gram and see whether response improves because of conditioning. Then it is OK with that weight.

This little girl is probably the most wonderfull BOP I ever had! When I see her on the fist she often reminds me of the male goshawk of my best falconry friend. About the same looks and manners in fact...same expressions in the face...just some smaller version.

I'll keep you further informed here about her!

[Musket]

Wilfred do you put your spar on a block?... if so please watch her feet as a block will tend to stretch her toes and may cause some damage, a bow perch would be better and a lot safer for her feet,
Best Regards,
Ken

[OutFlying]

Wilfred,
Wait till you she her fly at full speed, twisting and turning. Then you will have to think of a better word(s) to describe her than wonderful. What are you aiming to fly her at ?

Jim.

[HawkMan]

Musket how long do you have the leash on the bow perch for your bird m8, ive given this 1 im minding about 3 feet is this to long for it and could it cause leg damage !!
Thanks
Johnny

[Gaz]

I wonder how lean these are ?
:?: :?: ...indeed,bet its frightening to us,eh..probaly slice garlic on the keel :!:

[OutFlying]

Heard some more yesterday Gaz in a different wood, the dog was baffled as the screaming spar was about 50 foot up flying over the tree tops and my spar was quiet sat on the fist looking up at the wild one. Saw a adult female spar hunting the hedges at warp speed.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

Musket how long do you have the leash on the bow perch for your bird m8, ive given this 1 im minding about 3 feet is this to long for it and could it cause leg damage !!
Thanks
Johnny

Too long Johnny,
Just have enough length from the jesses to the tethering ring with a tiny amount of slack.

OF.

[Musket]

hi johnny , enough so as it can turn around and mount the bow perch, 3 feet might be a little long, you are quite correct to long and you will soon have problems with its legs

[Wilfred]

so yesterday i took her to training in the morning..normally i train her in afternoon. I think that's main reason why response was lesser. Since I wanted to be sure weight would not be too high today i just gave her some small amount of food on the fist in the afternoon.

In the morning, before training, i walked a while with her (do not know exact english falconry term for this). Went to the centre. Enough cars and they just not bother her. Then i decided to walk over the market with lots of people and noise. That also did not bother her at all. just sitting on the fist at ease.

At the moment it is raining. I will weight the spar in about an hour but think i will just let weight go down a bit and train her in afternoon again if weight is OK to do so.

[OutFlying]

The rain stopped the spar from flying yesterday afternoon, half rations. Now waiting an hour before flying this morning. Good luck with yours today.

Jim.

[Wilfred]

Now waiting an hour before flying this morning. Good luck with yours today.

Jim.

thank you Jim! I just wanted to post here that I might skip some days keeping you all informed about developments of spar..mainly since i want to try being less on the net since i really have to work on some PhD research now..that is typing a lot :( :( :( .

[Wilfred]

so some half of an hour ago i drove home and thought...well i might be little bit crazy...reason i thought so just very short...is..that i just left my beloved sparrowhawk with a friend of mine for some days (till thursday).

The reason to do so: this friend is already an austringer for about 25 years. He even breeds goshawks parent reared and knows lots more about spars than I do and i think there are not many falconers knowing that much about treatment of accipiters. This afternoon he told me he once had some spar out of the wild. When he got her he had to go on school holidays with some group (he's teacher) for 14 days and just took the spar with him at that times. After 14 days this spar was just flying through the group of childs to come to his fist.

Todays training went splendid. We, the falconer friend of mine (well actually he is more like a mentor to me having much more experience and knowledge) and I, trained my spar together. Friday she came at 6 metres or so . yesterday morning she did not come at all. In the evening i only gave a bit and thought to train her this morning again. This worked out to be 2 o clock in afternoon. Weighting about 230 grams but she did not come at all. So for first time i just did not give anything after she did not come immediately and just put her in the car again. Then I heard her screaming quite a lot but did not give anything till the time i went to my friend (about 5 o clock). She weighted about 225 grams then.

We trained her around half 6. First time she came quite quick at about 7 or 8 metres. Then second time she came at about 10 metres, also rather quick but not immediately like it should be. Then we decided to try at 15 metres. That took a while but she came and got some very good bit of pigeon.

My friend is going to train her also tomorrow morning. I wonder whether she will have response then since i also tried two times this weekend and she did not. But actually i said my friend it might be because i trained her from the block..and he responded that it might be I look too big when she sits low on the block...i did not thought about that but sounds reasonable. Anyway, we will also train her together tomorrow afternoon ( i got to work during day) and then till thursday he will probably train her in the morning and we together in the afternoon. In this way the conditioning will definitely go faster ( i do not have time in morning, he has!) and she will fly free much quicker. With current improvement rate i think she will give quick response from 50 metres or so within some days. And we will introduce her to the lure i made within next days.

So actually things will go rather quick now, i'm sure about that. And my falconer friend "just" knows some very small details i do not know yet to improve training and dealing with the spar better. By just letting my little one there for some days and learning from one of the best austringers from Europe i learn a lot and my spar gets a much better start.

[OutFlying]

Good post Wilfred,
Those small details can or do make all the difference, always an advantage to have someone who has been there before to show you in person.

Jim.

[Wilfred]

yes it is!
and this falconry friend of mine is really good with accipiters..like I told he has already trained and also hunted with spars in the past. And he bred them for some years or so. His tiercel goshawk he hunts with is also awsome. So my spar is in best hands now that is why i am actually very glad that this friend offered to spend some time with her this week. But actually he is having holidays now and he just appreciates it a lot that i trusted my spar with him and giving him occasion to enjoy spar for some time i'm sure. He's maybe even more exited about spars than i am.

Reason that i left her was not at all because i can not manage myself. But it is just that my friend being austringer for so long just knows more details and in this way the spar gets the better start since i also learn these details with it. She just deserves the best of course and in this way she will get it.

[SakerYZF]

What are you planning to fly her at?

[Wilfred]

What are you planning to fly her at?

see my response at "2005 parent reared sparrow hawk" subject...basically not on just one quarry but all the quarries possible for (my) spar and available here.

[Isaac]

And I envisage her hunting just on the highest weights possible of course.

Hi Wilfred,
Have you ever heard of the book "Accipiter Behavioral Problems" by Michael McDermott? His book on imprint accipiters and "the recipe" is quite famous. He is considered quite the expert on accipiters. In his new book he talks about how MOST behavior problems such as aggression, carrying, etc. are caused by austringers flying their birds at weights that are too high. The birds will still respond, even hunt and catch game, at a higher weight but they will carry, show aggression, and possibly show other behavior problems. He says in his book that a bird that is at the correct weight will immediately start to pluck the game after it is caught and only be thinking "eat eat eat". While the bird CAN be flown at a higher weight, and may even catch game, it is not the ideal weight for a well behaved bird.

I just recently read the book so the info is still fresh in my mind which is why it caught my attention when you said that you will try to fly your spar at the "highest weight possible". You know your bird better than any one else but I just thought I'd drop in this advice in case you found it useful. Good luck with the spar!
-Isaac

[Wilfred]

[quote="AmericanFalconerInJapanHi Wilfred,
Have you ever heard of the book "Accipiter Behavioral Problems" by Michael McDermott? His book on imprint accipiters and "the recipe" is quite famous. He is considered quite the expert on accipiters. In his new book he talks about how MOST behavior problems such as aggression, carrying, etc. are caused by austringers flying their birds at weights that are too high.
-Isaac[/quote]

Isaac,

Thank you a lot for this advice! I know the book "accipiter behavioral problems" even have one but did not read it yet. At the moment the book is at some falconry friend of mine. I also did not read the first (?)book of Michael MCDermott yet but will try to get it sometimes also.

My spar is not really agressive...till now it is only the point that she is on the prey and if i then act too quickly she threatens a bit but still does not loose the prey. So it is OK i guess and also this will become much lesser by time. But i will keep in mind to fly her not too high and read the MCDermott book also soon.