STAR

[Falconer]

DAY 1,
7.8.05
O.k picked up Star today after running up and down the m1 getting myself lost and the breeder waiting patentley to start his BBQ he came to my rescue and led me in.
Anyway got her back and fitted her equipment and then released her on the glove to a loud shreek, wings out and a powerfull grip :shock:
didn't experience this with my last Harris lol.
As i am at work Monday and Tuesday i have decided to let her settle for a bit on her bow till Wednesday, then off work for 10 days (yahoo) lol.
However she hasn't been fed today so the breeder said, but if i try she may feed tomorrow, not sure weather to try or leave her till wednesday.
funny thing is she won't sit on the bow didn't get this with the last Harris either.
anyway that's it for now but I'll get some pic's as soon as i can.
oh by the way she weighed in @ 2lb 6 oz.
Kev.

[Falcon]

Let your fun commence!:D Look forward to hearing more about Star. All the best
Falcon :D

[Sean]

hope all goes well mate, look forward to hearing more

[PeregrinesUK]

not sitting on the perch bow is not unusual for the first day or so until she settles a little - personally i like to train from the box for the first few days untill feeding i box only fringing out for 15 -20min session approx 4 -5 times a day - this reduces feather damage and reduces the risk of broken legs from excessive baiting on the bow could be something worth thinking about especially if your not going to be around all day as you wont be able to watch her and prevent the baiting - anyway hope you have a fun time training her and all goes really well :D :D look forward to reading you training diary!

[Sprout]

Good parent reared bird! Mine didn't eat off the fist for 7d so don't worry! As PeregrinesUK said be careful with bating, young Harris's are prone to fractures of the legs from bating so keep your leash short.

[Falconer]

Thanks for the advice guy's :wink:

[ColdZero]

Any pics yet? She sounds good so far, nothing wrong with a good grip :twisted:. What were her parents like?

[Shaun Byrne]

About time we saw some pics mate.

[Falconer]

DAY 2
8.8.05
I know i said i would leave her till Wednesday but i couldn't resist :lol:
So got home from work said hello to the wife quickly and had a cup of tea whilst sorting her chicks out.
Went in to get her but as expected she was baiting away, got hold of her as quick as i could and sat in the garden chair for about an hour tying to get her to feed.
She baited a few times,raised her wings other times as i moved and even sat on the fist at one point with wings tight to her sides,tail fanned out though.
After i had my dinner went in for the kill :wink:
another hour passed us by as we sat with me stroking her chest and touching her feet and her baiting away at cert an times but not giving up i decided to break of a chick leg and offer that instead of the chick.
As we sat she slowly started to bow and then she would look at me so i looked away and sure enough she went for it :lol:
I then produced the rest of it and she ate that, ( i think were away ) luckily i had another and tried her with that one and the greedy sod ate that one to.
After that i put her down as i didn't want to push it with her.
The wife did take some photo's but didn't turn out as the sun was all over them (DAMN)
Not weighed today as she is still bait'y but think her flying weight will be around 2lb 2oz we will have to see..
Will have to see what tomorrow brings now were under way.

[Falconer]

STAR & ME.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/bird001.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/bird002.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/bird009.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/bird006.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/bird007.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/bird008.jpg

[Falconer]

DAY 3
9.8.05
Bit more manning today but only for an hour as got to go out.
Took 3 chicks out for her last night but she was still baiting a bit and hesitant to eat but eventually took 2 off me the 3rd well the bin had that one.
Got some pic's as you can see H4WKA :wink:
Wondering weather or not to feed her tomorrow to get her weight down a bit and try get her to be a bit more responsive on the fist ??.
Or i could try her with a rabbit leg.
Anyway didn't even try to weigh her as she is still baiting there is no way she will sit on the scales yet, (unless i try and hood her) wasn't going to start to hood train till feeding confidently. (open to advice here guys and on anything else).
Oh by the way guys she is on the bow now :lol: the missus text me today at work to tell me,well I'm off work now for 12 days to try and get as far with her training as possible

[Adam Barrett]

wasn't going to start to hood train till feeding confidently. (open to advice here guys)

do it now mate- i did the same as what you are suggesting and it is still a pain in the ass to get her hooded-you will save your self a lot of time and effort if you start to hood her now whilst she is more warey of you than of the hood.

thanks
Adam

[ColdZero]

She looks like a great bird, and i agree with adam, get hooding out of the way. Atleast put a hood in view of her and stroke her with it etc, just to start off slowly. How steady is she on the fist? does she bate away, or is she just after a better perch? Can you walk around with her yet?

[Falconer]

No not very steady, occasional baiting but will also sit o.k sometimes.
And no can't walk around yet ( bait bait bait )

[Gary.B]

She's cracking looking bird, I'm so jealous I don't pick my male up for a week and a half. I'll keep a close eye on your diary it's great reading. Good luck.

[Falconer]

DAY 4
10.8.05
Today i have been manning on a little and often basis
(approx every other hour ).
Anyway whilst doing so i noticed if she saw me looking at her the wings would extend out and at some point's of the day would drop below the glove.
Been popping the hood on and off this morning only for about an hour though didn't want to put her off although at some points it was a wrestling mach.
Got her on the scales whilst hooded she was 2lb 4oz.
She is on the lawn at the mo still baiting and on some occasions baiting of the fist.
I thought she would settle a bit quicker than this but maybe I'm expecting to much ( DUNNO :oops: ).
Took 4oz of rabbit out last night for her to help feed her up and at the same time bring her weight down a touch, waited till about 4:O'clock to feed her.
Still a little hesitant but took 3oz of it, but hopefully she should start to respond better as her weight starts coming down.
After feeding she is now sitting on the bow on the lawn with her foot up looking content and seems to have stopped baiting :wink:
BY the way guys my diary is being written as things are happening throughout the day.

[Goldie]

Nice looking bird mate and you have the makings of a good diary.
on the subjkect of her food intake, I may be old fashioned in that respect but does nobody use washed meat anymore ?

[Falconer]

Nice looking bird mate and you have the makings of a good diary.


Thanks Goldie
I'm trying to write the diary for future ref, and maybe as a guide for other newbe falconers with a little help from my friends :wink:

[Shaun Byrne]

Nice looking bird mate, she looks quite stocky in the photos, thick looking legs.

[Falconer]

Nice looking bird mate, she looks quite stocky in the photos, thick looking legs.

Thanks shaun m8

[Takajo]

on the subjkect of her food intake, I may be old fashioned in that respect but does nobody use washed meat anymore ?
I do in summer. Winter I feed less before an outing, but what do you think on that one Goldie?

[Jiff]

i would'nt feed washed meat, can't see the point realy,(would you eat it), as the hood is concerned mate i believe you should have used it from the start when it would have been a welcome break for the bird,as the bird becomes more accostomed to her surroundings the more she will resent the hood, one piece of invaluable advice mate, take each day as it comes,and don't move on untill you're confidant the bird is ready,don't listen to the guy's who tell you the bird should be hunting after 7,8,9,or 10 day's out of the avery, she'll hunt when you're both ready, be steady and be confidant and you'll be ok.

[Falconer]

DAY 5
11.8.05

Today still pretty much the same this morning as yesterday.
Still bates away from me on approach and sometimes when on the fist.
when i turn my head to the left whilst she is on the fist she pulls hers back and out shoot the wings as before.
Sat with her just popping her hood on and off (not bad i suppose).
Got her on the scales again about 11:o'clock(hooded) she was 2lb 4oz same as yesterday,will try again about 4:Oclock to see if any change before feeding.
She is out on the lawn at the moment still baiting at what looks to be the fence or the shed roof,but at least it's not continual and sometimes she will sit with her foot up.
Picked her up at 12:15 as she was baiting a bit,once on the fist she was fine also i kept moving my head from side to side slowly and this time her wings never came out once(she looked though).
I also tried slowly walking around the garden she seems a little nervous but can't grumble.
Put her back on the bow about 13:15 within 10 Min's she was baiting again i hope this stops soon, just in case i have shortened her leash to about a foot to save any damage to her legs.
It's now 15:00 time for another hour of torture before i feed her.
Started by walking around the garden but this time i held her lower than her head level with mine.
she was looking up at me sometimes but didn't seem to concerned, then i sat with her at the side of the patio table with her scales in view
she has been hooded before so hasn't seen them.
16:00 dinner time lol.
I moved out of my chair slowly and put her feet level with the scales i lifted her right foot off the glove and onto the scales then lowered the fist and slowly she let go and sat on the scales.
She was now 2lb 3.7oz.
Now as yesterday i have prepared 3oz of skinned rabbit, but this time i want to try and get her to step up of the perch for her food as i need to stop her from baiting away from me when i approach her.
Well would you believe it, i started by sitting on the floor just in front of her bow,and offered her a tidbit off the glove but refused it ??.
Anyway offered it up to her beak and she took it, i then placed her on the bow and offered another piece.
She stepped on straightaway,(that was easy i thought) so i offered another piece as before but this time tried to bite so i moved the glove up so she had to step on for her reward.
She continued to do so throughout the whole 3oz.
One happy bloke and one full hawk :wink:

[Goldie]

Have to diagree on the washed meet issue jiff. The whole purpose of using it is to allow the new hawk a substantial amount of food from the glove which is the basis of the initial manning process and at the same time allow it weight to come down. In falconers previous post, he stated he had taken out 4oz of rabbit of which the hawk consumed 3oz, with the intention of bringing its weight down. Well in this warm weather that wont cut it. I am not saying that washed meet has any goodness or nutritional value but it most certainly satisfies the hunger albeit briefly and keeps the bowels etc. working which in turn is better than giving no food at all

[Falconer]

i would'nt feed washed meat, can't see the point realy,(would you eat it), as the hood is concerned mate i believe you should have used it from the start when it would have been a welcome break for the bird,as the bird becomes more accostomed to her surroundings the more she will resent the hood, one piece of invaluable advice mate, take each day as it comes,and don't move on untill you're confidant the bird is ready,don't listen to the guy's who tell you the bird should be hunting after 7,8,9,or 10 day's out of the avery, she'll hunt when you're both ready, be steady and be confidant and you'll be ok.

Thanks jiff
I have been using the hood on a daily basis but not leaving her with it on for any lengh of time (5 min max)
just keep putting on and off she slowly getting used to it
few weeks she should be fine(i hope) if anyone's got the prob with it its me cant seem to get it on fast enough lol.
As for her training i don't think i am rushing but at the same time i don't want to take to long so she starts to scream.

[Falconer]

DAY 6
12.8.05
Started the day off by progressive hood training.
First of all popping on and off as before then slowly leaving on for longer periods and with braces drawn waving my hands around her face like a mad man she never moved (hood fits o.k then i thought Griff made it well).
Walking round the garden a little quicker with her sporting her new hood was a doddle now i know why people use em :wink:
thinking of taking a walk tomorrow to get her used to riding the fist at normal walking pace and slowly get her used to different noises before taking her out bare headed.
Oh by the way all the step up's we did yesterday didn't work she still baited on approach :evil:.
(am i not getting her weight down fast enough or am i trying to hard ???).
11:20
Just walked up to her very slowly and bent down in front of her offering the fist and she stepped on :wink
Sat and stroked her chest then put her straight back on the bow and stood right at the side of her for a short time, she didn't bait so on that note i walked away.
Had her on the fist about 13:00 with one foot up (wonder if this is a sign of her accepting me :roll:).
16:00
Time for he weigh in and food.
Got her on the scales (un-hooded) she came in at 2lb 4.8oz :shock:
Looks like she is up a bit on yesterday (I've gotta be doing summat wrong).
Although she was feeding very enthusiastically.
As yesterday 3oz of skinned rabbit
Just wanted to add after each feed no further training is done and i leave her in peace.

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/STARhooded009.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/STARhooded008.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/STARhooded007.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/STARhooded006.jpg

[Falconer]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/harrishawka/STAR/STARhooded004.jpg

[Falconer]

Just a few pic's of STAR sporting her hood from GriffMJ
BIG thank's Griff fits perfect m8 :wink:

[GriffMJ]

Still very shiny :)

[Ben C]

You have a very nice clean set up there falconer, good luck. :)

[Falconer]

You have a very nice clean set up there falconer, good luck. :)

Thanks m8
Bow looks a bit worse for ware though but no fear i see griff does em on his site could be some discount eh lmao :wink:

[Ben C]

Just get some astro turf on it :) :)

[Goldie]

You have a very nice clean set up there falconer, good luck. :)

:lol: Give it time :wink:

[Dave G]

hi no need to rush and drop the weight off her to quick as that mite set you backwards ,still loads of coverage on trees and grass still long so take your time enjoy the training then when all is good leaves off the trees and grass has died down go get the bunnies :wink:

[Takajo]

All will be well. :mrgreen:

[Falconer]

hi no need to rush and drop the weight off her to quick as that mite set you backwards ,still loads of coverage on trees and grass still long so take your time enjoy the training then when all is good leaves off the trees and grass has died down go get the bunnies :wink:

Surly the longer i feed from the glove she will imprint on me and scream??

[Shaun Byrne]

I wouldn't have her hanging around, just feeding off the fist for too long mate or, you are right, you are risking a food problem. On the other hand dont crash her weight down. Get her out feeding off carcasses if you are not going to hunt just yet.

[Falconer]

DAY 7
13.8.05
Still baiting away from me this morning :oops:
Took her out for a walk this morning and managed to achieve two things Her riding the glove at normal walking speed and the longest time wearing the hood.
I also couldn't believe how steady she was (never moved) :wink:
Different matter when we got home though and removed the hood
(wings out and looking at me),stroked her chest a bit to calm her down then put her back on the bow and left her to think that it wasn't such a big deal after-all.
Not much done with her today as rain stoped play :evil:
16:00
Weigh in time and food
Got her on the scales un-hooded again (seems o.k with this now).
She came in at 2lb 4.8oz same as yesterday but this time i only fed her 2oz of skinned rabbit got to try and get a better response from her
Hopefully she will be a little keener tomorrow.

[Falconer]

Guys i need some help
I need to bring STAR's weight down
I don't know the correct way to do this :oops:
For those of you following my diary she has held her weight at 2lbs 4.8oz for two days running now but tonight i have only gave her 2 oz of rabbit what i want to know is what is the correct way to bring it down and how much food to give her
thanks
kev.

[BFC 007]

i wouldnt give her more than an ounce a day at the moment mate as she will probably have plenty of fat reserves on her to keep her going. As her weight drops & she gets more responsive then doing high jumps as exercise will help her to lose weight together with reduced rations.

[Shaun Byrne]

Weigh her more than once during to day, this will give you a better Idea of rate of loss.

[Goldie]

WASHED MEAT

[Falconer]

Thanks for the replies guys but knobody's telling me how much to feed
I.E
2oz today
2oz tomorrow
or 3 or 1 or none??
This is what i mean how much per day to bring her down slowly without crash dieting her.

[ColdZero]

What i do is feed them chick heads until they are reasonably full, they feel full but there are so many gaps in their crop they aren't actually eating much at all. This way they feel content, their matabolism is up and they keep their appetite. As long as you aren't starving them its ok, but giving lots of low quality food is the best way imo, even if it takes an extra day its worth it.

[Sprout]

It's impossible to say how much to give, it depends upon the individual bird, exercise levels, type/quality of food, how you defrost the food, weather conditions etc etc. Sorry for questioning but would have thought this one of the most basic aspects of training a bird.

[BFC 007]

Thanks for the replies guys but knobody's telling me how much to feed
look at first post :?

[Shaun Byrne]

The easiest way is to experiment yourself mate. You need to be consistent with your food type and keep detailed records. If you are going to feed only rabbit during training, reduce the amount by 1/4oz per day and see what this does to her weight. If she is dropping too fast increase the food intake slightly and vice versa.

Suppliments might be a good idea if only feeding rabbit.

[Moses]

i agree with sprout and hawka most def, im a beginner myself mate

i read in a book u need to monitor them everyday and of course wait till its has casted

lets say u feed it 4 chicks a day and see everyday does the weight stay the same or now , if she is loosing weight and not gaining that means u can alter give her more to maintain her weight and it gives u a clear indication that 4 chicks make her loose weight and not gain etc

u need to monitor it probably for at least a week to see how she gets on

if u want her to loose weight quickly if she is very fat u can always cut her down to 2 chicks a day and see how it goes

theirs not a set way mate how u can make a hawk loose weight, all hawks r different as humans r u cant really compare then, each hawk will have its own metabolism some maybe faster some slower

i hope that helps and i hope no one slags me if i got it wrong, just an example :D after reading different types of books

[Jiff]

if you don't already, make a note of each feed,exercise, and such like, you'll soon see a pattern emerge, de-yolk chicks, rabbit aint that rich but the best bit i found for weight loss was the front leg flesh, also watch the weather and note any differance in weight for certain periods of cirtain weather, experiment and learn as you go because at the end we all might no about the birds but no one will know you're bird like you mate.

[Moses]

if you don't already, make a note of each feed,exercise, and such like, you'll soon see a pattern emerge, de-yolk chicks, rabbit aint that rich but the best bit i found for weight loss was the front leg flesh, also watch the weather and note any differance in weight for certain periods of cirtain weather, experiment and learn as you go because at the end we all might no about the birds but no one will know you're bird like you mate.

excellent stuff from an expert and cheers mate :)

[Jiff]

p.s.
soz forget to mention don't be fooled into thinking there's some hard and fast rule which governs intake and weight loss, because i bet i'm not the only one to get prepared for a day out after carefull preperation only to find the bird way too high although you can't figure why.

[MickeyDredd]

Sorry for questioning but would have thought this one of the most basic aspects of training a bird.

Sorry Falconer but I'm with Sprout on this one, I'm surprised you are having to ask such a question after you have acquired a bird.

That aside, you really need to experiment with weight/food intake and get to know your birds metabolism. Try feeding say 2oz and note if any weight loss, if no weight loss then try feeding 1oz and note weight loss. You should then be able to work out the amount of a particular food type your bird requires to maintain, increase or lose weight.

Please note that weight maintenance requirements will differ dependant on temperature so what you work out in current warm climate will differ dramatically in the middle of winter.

[Moritz]

Feed the chest of BROILERS (white chicken) you can give them a full crop and they will make your bird lose weight very fast, but perhaps that is to drastic in your case.

Moritz

[Falconer]

Thanks guys for all comments and criticism.

I'm being over cautious i know but some of don't know my first hawk (jemma) who sadly is no longer with me.
Was a screamer and to this day i don't know why??
The guys on here who do know are the ones NOT slagging me off.

I just wanted to see what other people thought about weight control,
and before i start to take her weight down, i could see that what i did with jemma WAS o.k and had nothing to do with her weight.

Moses you are right m8 and i bought jemmas weight down as you said but she still screamed SO the only conclusion i have is jemma must have somehow imprinted on me for food.

All i was trying to do is figure things out and try to stop it happening again
by getting a good idea that other people do the same as me and that I'm NOT doing it wrong.

This thread was not designed for anybody to slag me but for constructive help and am i wrong to show any concern at all
thanks
Kev.

[Varmint]

Once bitten eh Kev?

A good rule of thumb is to feed good tierineg at this stage of training, Rabbit spine with most of the meat cut away makes for a low calorie diet that allows for much more interactive time with your bird.

Everyone has their own personal favourite techniques and foods but a good rule of thumb across the board is to avoid any excessive drops of more than 1/2 oz in a 24hr period.

This warm weather makes weight loss a struggle, but there is a fine line between hanging around at heigher weights with a nervouse bird and dropping to soon.

Whilst weight is a modern benchmark to training, before weighing our ancestors used common sense, watching the birds body language and attitude, aggressive stance, gripping fist and yes noise where all signs of anxiety around food and might suggest a threshhold has been reached?.

Dont feel your being judged mate, just the usual plethoror of experts sticking in their "two penneth" with your birds welfare at heart, you cant blame em for that? :wink: 8)

[Gary.B]

Kev
Your not wrong mate, what would be wrong is if you didn't ask, unfortunatly sometimes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, enjoy your bird mate.
Gary

[MickeyDredd]

Kev

Nobody has critisised you or slagged you off, certainly I only expressed surprise that somebody who owned a bird was asking the questions I quote below.
From what I can see every post has offered you advice, and as Varmint says all posts were made with the best interests of your bird in mind.
Guys i need some help
I need to bring STAR's weight down
I don't know the correct way to do this :oops:
kev.
[quote="Falconer"]Thanks for the replies guys but knobody's telling me how much to feed [quote]

[Falconer]

Once bitten eh Kev?
with your birds welfare at heart, you cant blame em for that? :wink: 8)

No m8 i don't
Perhaps i could of put things diffrently
But i didn't and now i'm left looking like a right PRAT.
KEV.

[Moses]

Kev
Your not wrong mate, what would be wrong is if you didn't ask, unfortunatly sometimes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, enjoy your bird mate.
Gary

well said bud

rather ask and not be embarrased about it than make the bird suffer, thats why this forum is here

[Moses]

Once bitten eh Kev?
with your birds welfare at heart, you cant blame em for that? :wink: 8)

No m8 i don't
Perhaps i could of put things diffrently
But i didn't and now i'm left looking like a right PRAT.
KEV.


dont worry mate it happens, it happened to me and it made be better and i dont mean better at being a prat :D u cant beat this not knowing much about falconry and go and buy a falcon and i mean a falcon :D

so stuff happens if i didnt speak about it here for the fear of getting slagged i would have never learned anything

so its cool mate and dont worry

[Falconer]

DAY 8
14.5.05
Went for another walk this morning still with the hood drawn maybe tomorrow i can strike the braces a little.
Also when the hood is on she seems fine with it but still not to keen on it going on still a fight (dunno if this is normal behavior)
Someone said to me to put a chick leg or something in the hood to get the bird used to bending its head in the hood thus making it easyier to slip on might work i suppose.
Weighed in today at 2lb 4.5oz and fed her 2oz washed meat and managed to get her jumping for it seemed a little sticky footed when trying to put her back on the bow.
Also if she managed to nick a big bit of me she mantled on the fist.

[Debbie]

Kev,

You are in no way a prat :shock: - good on you mate for asking for help and advice that took guts on a forum such as ours :roll:

For those who choose to just put you down and make you feel slagged off with sly sarcastic comments because as Varmint said they think they know it all :roll:

Instead of being supportive and remembering just how very hard and kinda scary starting out with a new bird is even when you have done it before with a different bird as you have with Jemma - just try and ignore them :roll:

I wish you well in bringing Star's weight down and heres to a great season full of good flights :wink: Looking forward to the piccys :D

Debbie xx

[Falconer]

Thanks debbie for the support
I have started a diary babe :wink:

[Moses]

Kev,

You are in no way a prat :shock: - good on you mate for asking for help and advice that took guts on a forum such as ours :roll:

For those who choose to just put you down and make you feel slagged off with sly sarcastic comments because as Varmint said they think they know it all :roll:

Instead of being supportive and remembering just how very hard and kinda scary starting out with a new bird is even when you have done it before with a different bird as you have with Jemma - just try and ignore them :roll:

I wish you well in bringing Star's weight down and heres to a great season full of good flights :wink: Looking forward to the piccys :D

Debbie xx

well said debbie awesome advice :)

[Debbie]

Thanks debbie for the support
I have started a diary babe :wink:

I wish I was as thin as a babe :( Will go and check the diary out :)

Oh and when everyone nails this weight loss thing pass the diet on to me its abit like the Atkins plan so may just work :wink:

Debbie x

[MickeyDredd]

Kev,
For those who choose to just put you down and make you feel slagged off with sly sarcastic comments because as Varmint said they think they know it all :roll:
Debbie xx

Sorry but I seem to missing something here. Would someone please post the previous sarcastic posts which have slagged Kev off.

Thanks
Mike

[Ben C]

HAHAHA Mickey's getting it in the neck....and for what??? What have the romans ever done for you now mate :) :)

[MickeyDredd]

Dunno, perhaps they can explain it to me :lol:

[Ben C]

Sorry for questioning but would have thought this one of the most basic aspects of training a bird.

Sorry Falconer but I'm with Sprout on this one, I'm surprised you are having to ask such a question after you have acquired a bird.

That aside, you really need to experiment with weight/food intake and get to know your birds metabolism. Try feeding say 2oz and note if any weight loss, if no weight loss then try feeding 1oz and note weight loss. You should then be able to work out the amount of a particular food type your bird requires to maintain, increase or lose weight.

Please note that weight maintenance requirements will differ dependant on temperature so what you work out in current warm climate will differ dramatically in the middle of winter.


Well Mick I feel it could well be this NON sarcastic statement of what appears to be VERY straight forward and HELPFUL advice. Perhaps there is a little bit of merde stirring going on???


Falconer you do not look like a pratt at all.......:) :)

[MickeyDredd]

Sorry for questioning but would have thought this one of the most basic aspects of training a bird.

Sorry Falconer but I'm with Sprout on this one, I'm surprised you are having to ask such a question after you have acquired a bird.

That aside, you really need to experiment with weight/food intake and get to know your birds metabolism. Try feeding say 2oz and note if any weight loss, if no weight loss then try feeding 1oz and note weight loss. You should then be able to work out the amount of a particular food type your bird requires to maintain, increase or lose weight.

Please note that weight maintenance requirements will differ dependant on temperature so what you work out in current warm climate will differ dramatically in the middle of winter.


Well Mick I feel it could well be this NON sarcastic statement of what appears to be VERY straight forward and HELPFUL advice. Perhaps there is a little bit of merde stirring going on???


Falconer you do not look like a pratt at all.......:) :)

Ben
Thanks for that. perhaps now the people who are having a go will actually read what I posted and quote the sly, sarcastic, know-all comments I have made - or will they continue with the sly, cowardly pm's they are sending :evil:

And you are right, as I've already told Falconer he is not in anyway a pratt.
Mike

[Falconer]

O.k
I think this has gone on long enough
mod's can you please lock this thread down
I for one have had enough
kev

[MickeyDredd]

But Kev I would like the numerous people who have suggested someone was derogatory towards you to identify the culprit(s) and quote the offending remarks - then they can apologise for it publicly.

[MickeyDredd]

And to quote Moritz...over 70 people have read the thread today since my request and nobody has yet pointed out the offending remarks

[OutFlying]

I can't see any sly or bad replies. Maybe the original question wasn't worded well - no mention of how do you reduce a female harris without producing a screamer, just how do you reduce a hawks weight - which should be basic knowledge before buying your first hawk.

OF.

[Gaz]

which should be basic knowledge before buying your first hawk.

[Ben C]

Kev,

You are in no way a prat :shock: - good on you mate for asking for help and advice that took guts on a forum such as ours :roll:

For those who choose to just put you down and make you feel slagged off with sly sarcastic comments because as Varmint said they think they know it all :roll:

Instead of being supportive and remembering just how very hard and kinda scary starting out with a new bird is even when you have done it before with a different bird as you have with Jemma - just try and ignore them :roll:


Debbie xx


Found the problem.......it seems this has muddied the water and made everyone mis-understand VERY NICE advice. I am not sure who she is, but I am PRETTY sure this has happened before where a new comer is concerned! How are the parrots by the me dear :) :) :)

[Sprout]

Sorry if I've disturbed a hornets nest over this one questioning the post (I did apologise at the time) but as the initial question stood it looked like someone had bought a bird with no clue how to train it. How would this look like to an anti or someone new to the forum? Buying birds without knowledge? So we were right to question. As it stands now we have the full information it is a fair question. So back to the thread??

[MickeyDredd]

Ben

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular, there are a few people who posted that Falconer was being slagged off - dont know if thats what they actually felt or if they were just jumping on a bandwagon.

But those same people should be able to quote what they found so offensive - wonder why they haven't done so :oops:

[MickeyDredd]

Sprout

i'd love to get back on thread and I've already personally apologised to falconer for keeping this going but if people are big enough to criticize others then they should justify what they have posted.

Over 130 views now and still no sign of the offending remarks.

[Ben C]

Neither am I, but it really has got out of hand and is just a load of piffle stirred up to be....well.....just stirred up I suppose. :) :)

The info is there PLAIN and SIMPLE :) :)

[Varmint]

Come on Guys, we were all there once in fact i think i was actually present for a couple of you posting? :oops: :lol:

Sprout, get down off your soap box you old tart :butthead:

this can be a very worrying and difficult time in intial training and no one gets it perfect, you are right to seek re assurance.

Falconer: you are over reacting to Mickey's and Sprouts posts so calm down man and get on with the job in hand, with the help and support of everyone on here, if you want it?

And dont start to be a PRATT:lol: :lol: :wink:

Now if we are gonna start talking about pratts, as sprout about his cat :oops:

[Finnish]

Can we please get back on the thread.

[MickeyDredd]

Can we please get back on the thread.

Given that nobody can give the reason I went off thread we'd be as well to :roll: .

Varmint,

Falconer understood ages ago that it was the way the questions were posted that made Sprout and me raise concern that a forum member had insufficient experience - he has been big enough to acknowledge this and I fully respect him for it.

Its the certain other members I am disappointed in.

Mike

[Ben C]

Falconer: I am having a similar problem as you. I USED to fly Cody at 700 grammes, but today he flew free and followed on at 740 after 3 days re-training. Now I am totally flumoxed by this, I have been told 2 things: 1) Harris hawks fly at high weights as they get older and 2) They are smart! So my problem is do I drop his weight further back to last years weight or keep going at the weight I am now and not be surprised he is just messing with me?

Well I shall do a mixture of both i.e drop his weight by an ounce to 720 or there abouts and work up from there. How do I do this? Just half the rations on any given day depending on the amount of manning and exercise I do. So I have found 1 chick maintains the weight so 1/2 a chick will drop it by a fraction. I just cut 1/2 a chick into the same number of pieces as a whole one, i.e 3. :)

The screaming issue is something else entirely. But as I have said on another thread, you have a very nice clean set up and if you take as much care about manning your hawk as you did sorting the weathering you will NOT LOOK A PRATT. Take these words of a PRATT to heart mate :) :)

[Varmint]

Like who Mike? :?:

[Shaun Byrne]

One thing to remember mate, she's not really being manned while she's hooded. If she's wearing a hood you might as well just walk around the garden, she doesn't know where she is!

She needs to be exposed to everything so walking unhooded would be better.

[Sprout]

Weight means nothing in the grand scheme of things, the most important thing is how the bird responds. If it is flying strongly, responding well to the fist and taking slips with full vigour then it suggests that it is at the correct condition. If it is slow to respond, pulling off slips, self hunting this possibly suggests that it is not quite right and some manipulation is required to get to the correct condition. It is important to feel your birds keel daily to get an inclination of condition - how fat/thin it feels as well as getting an idea of how fit the bird is. Don't forget, a bird may be slow to respond not only because it is too fat but also if it is too thin and not have the energy to fly. Use weight to monitor the bird but this is no substitire for feeling your bird.

[Ben C]

I found (and I could be wrong) that using the hood as part of a lesson or routine was better than just leaving it on. So either use on the walk to the creance land and remove. Thus the hawk has a reason to tolerate it. Or put it on after the lesson when she has had a feed. My thinking behind this was to get the hawk used to rewards in and out of the hood. But whenever it was removed back home I then put a VERY small piece in and approached slowly so the hawk put its head into the hood and got a reward. But I have found my Harris to be a bit 'fidgity' under mine. I think thats normal for a Harris, so long as you don't push it off your fist or it hangs upside down you should be OK. Just treat it with kid gloves, the photographs you have look A OK. :)

Ben :)

[Varmint]

Also sounds like you've ****ed up the hooding thing mate with what sounds like a combination of bad technique and a poorly fitting hood?

She will eventually start to get aggresive toward you if you continue hooding her in the way your doing? you need some help with your technique mate!

It helps to hood her when on bow overnight, then you are avoiding that bate away from you in the morning? (but nly if you can hood her without a fight with a hood that actually fits her ?)

Your working toward getting the bird happy in your company and confident on the fist, then stepping up for food.
Once you've cracked that you can leave her unhooded at night in the certain knowledge that she can be stepped up for a tid bit in the morning and manning will move on more rapidly to carriage.

Maybe stop posting and confusing your self with all of this advise, go away a read another book from cover to cover then set out your objectives one goal at a time....

A bird that will feed on my fist
A bird that will step up without fearing me and bateing
A bird that will sit on my fist whilst walking
A bird that is content in most situations

ect, ect.

Good luck mate :wink:

[Ben C]

May I also add....I didn't hood mine for a long while into the training. Maybe three or four weeks? :)

[Falconer]

DAY 9
15.5.05
Took her for a walk this morning early around 5am un-hooded, she wasn't very steady to start but did settle a bit later into the journey.
Got home and just sat manning her in the garden on and off all day.
weighed her tonight but couldn't get a proper reading off the scales as she was a bit fidgety on them so re-weighed after doing jumps at leash length. most of the time she was in front of me on the floor before i got the meat out witch i did find annoying and i have noticed she doesn't want to let go of the bow when i go to pick her up, seems to have stopped baiting away at the moment but as i said not let go and step onto the fist.
Looks like I'll have to stop the jumps and revert back to step-up's
Anyway the re-weighing said 2lb 5.7oz,
but she ate 2oz of washed meat.
so in theory her weight before feeding should be 2lb 3.7oz
A loss of an ounce on yesterday.
( i hate it when this happens you can get the weight wrong if ther not still)
Kev.

[Goldie]

having a good tiring on the glove whilst walking her is always a good idea.

[Bod]

Kev
Try hooding her before you weigh her.

[Shaun Byrne]

Kev, I find weighing with food in the crop a waste of time mate, you'll just confuse things. If you weigh her before training and you know the weight of the food she has eaten during training, why stress her anymore by putting her on the scales?

[Falconer]

Kev, I find weighing with food in the crop a waste of time mate, you'll just confuse things. If you weigh her before training and you know the weight of the food she has eaten during training, why stress her anymore by putting her on the scales?

Shaun
I have explained why and thought it better to get a weight than non at all,
But obviously i will take steps to avoid doing this in the future.




Garry
Thanks for the hood thing m8
but varmint has already suggested i don't use it as it may be I'll fitting
However i do have another hood but i wouldn't know a bad fitting hood from a good one so i won't use that either.
It says its a size 3 for a FHH
it does however look BIGGER THAN THE OTHER and the gape is bigger
But when the braces are drawn, the neck part looks a little smaller.

To be honest it might be a good idea to forget hooding all together as Adrian has pointed out my technique is prob wrong and haven't got anybody close to me who can show me the way to do it
cheers
Kev.

[Kevin Massey]

Dave (Nemisis)

This is the diary of star before you had her bud....:supz:

[ReluctantTwitcher]

not sitting on the perch bow is not unusual for the first day or so until she settles a little - personally i like to train from the box for the first few days untill feeding i box only fringing out for 15 -20min session approx 4 -5 times a day - this reduces feather damage and reduces the risk of broken legs from excessive baiting on the bow could be something worth thinking about especially if your not going to be around all day as you wont be able to watch her and prevent the baiting - anyway hope you have a fun time training her and all goes really well :D :D look forward to reading you training diary!

Interesting technique/approach - good thinking, and a valuable tip. Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,
/Magnus