Equipment needed....

[Ninja-Jon]

Hi all what are the essential things i will be needing to start up with? Is there any folks on here selling anything that would be essential to me i am not looking to buy a bird yet probably month from now will be looking also what is the better of the 2 birds a male or female Harris hawk i already have land to fly at quarry with. Also how old should the bird be that i purchase sorry these may sound like silly questions but i am a complete novice at it..

[Osiris]

well if youre looking for a harris within the next month or 2 then good luck. i doubt anyone will have any left.
Have you done any courses or anything?

[Sean]

hi ninja, im a novie too here, but i think the best time to buy a bird is around 16-20 weeks, how long have you been learning for? it might be better waiting till next season and learn as much as you can this season . lol thats what i done but it will all pay off come next month :D

[Ninja-Jon]

Thanks for the replies Osiris how many ppl on here have been on courses ? Don't wanna sound ignorant or pigheaded but are they necessary surely one can put into practice what one reads from a book i know u can't beat doing anything practically but how much is it for a course and what do the learn u just the basics surely one can pick up the basics from a book. not saying i am a tight git with money but surely the cost of a course could go towards equipment etc. And as for the purchase of bird in the next month or so you say a no no.... Asked several questions on here and not had a great feed back so still sitting here scratching me nut. Also thanks for your feedback Sean :wink:

[Sean]

ninja, courses are expensive, but if you can afford it, go on one. if not at the very least get out hawking with a few people that live close by to you. books can teach you some but nowhere as much as acyually doing it.

[Goldie]

Ninja-Jon, this may sound as though i am having ago at you and to be perfectly truthful i am. Silly questions we can handle, especially from a complete novice, but from the questions you have asked on this thread and the others you have been on, you should not even be thinking of getting a bird this year, never mind a month from now.

You would appear to have little or no idea what is involved, have done no groundwork and are ill equipped at present to take on a BOP.
I would suggest you do a lot more research, find someone in your area prepared to give you advice and show you the ropes, and even go on a course to get a better understanding of what is involved.

At the end of the day it is the welfare of the bird that i and most others on this forum are concerned with and not just trying to have a go at you. This should be a long term commitment for you and having to wait a bit longer until you are ready should not be an issue.
Ask all the questions you want on this forum and we will do our best to help but you will not be ready in a month so try and plan ahead for next year.

[Afshimo]

With books, you can read stuff, but doing that stuff with a live bird can sometimes seem compleatly different.
Books dont tell you how fast a hawk can foot and you let go of the leash. Books dont tell you how much a lure hurts when you swing it wrong, and the blisters after a good practise. Books dont tell you chicks can explode if you kneel on them. But courses do, and will give you proper insight.
They might be expensive, but you do learn invaluble stuff, as long as the course is a good one!

All the best with it!

[Ninja-Jon]

Goldie thanks for the advice the welfare of the bird is also my concern that's why have come on this forum to ask the questions i have asked (silly questions they may seem to some) If your saying I'm not ready to purchase a BOP then I'll take your advice on board no problem. I want to be fully commit ed into giving the best for the bird not offender ed by the comments you have wrote i appreciate the truth if you can give me any other advice please do so. Is there any persons in the forum that are local to me that would be willing to show me the way forward in falconry Willing to pay.........

[Adam Barrett]

Where are you mate?

[Ninja-Jon]

Nottingham Adam.

[ColdZero]

You shouldn't be thinking about getting a bird when you haven't even read a book mate. Courses are definitely over priced, but very valuable if you can't get out in the field with someone.

[Goldie]

N-J, glad you see it as constructive and yes from what i have read i believe you are not ready for a bird this season as your knowledge is very limited. Remember we have ALL been there just like you.

As Adam has just asked, where are you? someone will be near by.
Fill in your forum profile with more detail and that will help. Details of your town, age, time available to work with a bird etc. will save a lot of questions from other members.

[Adam Barrett]

sorry mate im a long way from you-so really i wont be able to provide any practical help but im sure there will be more members close by :lol:

all the best
adam

[Falconry Equipment International]

You shouldn't be thinking about getting a bird when you haven't even read a book mate. Courses are definitely over priced, but very valuable if you can't get out in the field with someone.
CZ unfortunately what you have said about the course you attended, it sounds as if you chose the wrong one !
If it is you, I remember you cantacted others 1st ( including us) , then found cheaper.... is cheaper always best?????
( I also seem to remember after your course, you then asked me to help you gtet a HH) of course I could be mistaken?? :wink:

[OutFlying]

NJ,
Your best option is to first read a book, then re-read it. Then ask the questions which your still indoubt about. Do your homework and you'll find that people will be more willing to help you with the practical stuff. I'm always willing to give local newbies plenty of help but if they haven't done the basics themselves (read a book etc) I'd turn them down in an instant. A good starting point is Emma Ford Falconry Art and Practice costs about a tenner, this will give you a basic insight into the requirements needed. There are better books but its enough to wet your appetite.

Jim,

[Ninja-Jon]

Adam thank you for your inquiry. Hope some persons are local to me to give me practical help also.

[Ninja-Jon]

Thanks for your comments out flying Mrs been out got the book Falconry & Hawking by Phil Glazier also recommended by another forum member plz keep the comments coming

[Shaun Byrne]

Some good advice there NJ, take your time mate, read all the books you can, ask loads of questions and try and get out with someone. This will not only prevent a bird from being mistreated through lack of knowledge but also help you to enjoy the sport with a more thorough understanding of what is required and what can sometimes go wrong.

[SecretSquirrel]

yeah, i still havent got a hunting bop yet and ive been reading for 3 years and been on 3 courses, the last one spanned 17 weeks! this season i am an apprentice for a hunting falconer, so next season ill consider myself ready to acquire my own bird, i have about 25 books on the shelf many read a few times, so i guess it took me longer than a month! but that doesnt bother me, im just enjoying the ride. good luck for the future.

[Sean]

by the way ninja, if you join a club, im sure they would put you in touch with someone loacal

[Ninja-Jon]

Hi Sean Ive done a search on the net mate for a falconers club or anything to do with the keeping BOP came up with nothing :cry: If any persons does know of any clubs in or around my area which is Nottingham don't mind traveling plz let me know it would gratefully appreciated..

[Sprout]

It is true you only learn from experience but the groundwork has to be in place first. Read books and re-read them, ask questions on here. Join a local club and follow some experienced falconers for a season or three then re-question whether you have the time/space/land for a bird of your own.

[CastleFalconry]

If you're not looking at courses, then do some research and find your local falconry club.

A good one will welcome you with open arms and encourage you to get involved in feild meets this coming season (Septemberish till Aprilish).

This will give you a fantastic opportunity to speak with numerous falconers/austringers in the flesh and get their opinions on the way they do things.

I never went on a course all those years ago, but that was because I was lucky enough to have a guy 100 yards from my house to pester, go out with and call on.

Books and videos definately have their place, but you will never be able to beat practical experience when it comes to something like this.

If I can refer to our previous post, NO question is a silly one. We've all been there an we've all had to learn. It may be frustrating for you at the moment, but if you can do as much groundwork as you can, this will make you a much better falconer in the long run.

I did 18 months falconry without a bird before I had my first Kestrel!

[ColdZero]

You shouldn't be thinking about getting a bird when you haven't even read a book mate. Courses are definitely over priced, but very valuable if you can't get out in the field with someone.
CZ unfortunately what you have said about the course you attended, it sounds as if you chose the wrong one !
If it is you, I remember you cantacted others 1st ( including us) , then found cheaper.... is cheaper always best?????
( I also seem to remember after your course, you then asked me to help you gtet a HH) of course I could be mistaken?? :wink:

don't think that was me mate, i can't remember phoning anyway about getting a HH, and my course wasn't cheap lol just the only one i could find within 150 miles with accomodation

[Ninja-Jon]

OK i will ask the question where are theses clubs? Ive searched the net looked on British falconers site came up with nothing where else can i look

[Ninja-Jon]

Looking through the profiles of some of the falconers i notice there are quite a few who live in Nottingham or round abouts Nottingham area can not any of you put me in contact with a club or anything. Or is it your not in a club yourselves?

[Ninja-Jon]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All

Most of our members are from notts,& Derby and if we can get the interest back then we will bring the venue back to Notts, Derby's border, Junction 27, or 28 would be better, i have moved to Lincs and we cannot get anybody to take my role has Secretary, what we need is some new blood in the club, i would hope we can continue but if we do not get some help on the committee then we may lose the Midland Region of the WHC. which will be a shame.

cheers

Billy
That tells me there is no club in the Nottingham or surrounding area as from the above comments you so called Falconers have lost interest for what reason is there not any persons out there that could get this up and going again..

[Ninja-Jon]

Hi Rob

Thanks for the reply....looks like the WHC midlands ...is just a best mates club then? Just tried your link and that website is now temporarily closed. I shall contact Mick Kane and see what his intentions are about a pub meet at the end of this month..... I have spoken to a few people now who have gone to this meeting and they have all said that they were either ignored or treated like lesser mortals due to senior falconers "self esteem" being overbearing? Another comment i picked up whilst searching was the above this sounds a bit off putting as it seems experienced falconers stick together and don't have time for complete novices like me.. ???

[Bengal Owl]

try this for folconry clubs lists most and email some of the clubs see if they fly local to you no harm in asking or an email hope you have luck http://www.falconclubs.fsnet.co.uk/ or http://www.falconry.com/organ_frm.htm

[Falconry Equipment International]

You shouldn't be thinking about getting a bird when you haven't even read a book mate. Courses are definitely over priced, but very valuable if you can't get out in the field with someone.
CZ unfortunately what you have said about the course you attended, it sounds as if you chose the wrong one !
If it is you, I remember you cantacted others 1st ( including us) , then found cheaper.... is cheaper always best?????
( I also seem to remember after your course, you then asked me to help you gtet a HH) of course I could be mistaken?? :wink:

don't think that was me mate, i can't remember phoning anyway about getting a HH, and my course wasn't cheap lol just the only one i could find within 150 miles with accomodation
Ah Ok obviously mistaken identity. You have probably hit the nail on the head talking of accommodation as the vast majority of course providers( not sure if even varmint offers rooms) do not have accommodation, however, in our case we have various B&B's within about 20 mins walk

[Falconry Equipment International]

It is true you only learn from experience but the groundwork has to be in place first. Read books and re-read them, ask questions on here. Join a local club and follow some experienced falconers for a season or three then re-question whether you have the time/space/land for a bird of your own.
All this advice is very well, but for the novice ,such as the author of this current thread, how are they to define which book is good( & in that book which information is to be taken on board & which to discard) and which is useless. Then there is a similar situation with Falconers and Clubs, whom are bonafide, whom are good falconers & even someone is a good falconer , do they have the time / patience/ skills to be a suitable mentor & the ability to impart appropriate information?
I would parry that for every good book, there are about 20 mediocre and 10 really poor books and the same with falconers. As for clubs especially their apprenticeship schemes, do date I have to see one working as well as I would hope. Of course all schemes run by clubs are vulnerable to the above factors. I hope this has not confused the issue any more & HTH

[Ninja-Jon]

Firstly would like to say thank you to MattG for the links he as posted for me have emailed British falconry club asking them for club details if there is any local to me. Also Scremin Jay as got a valued point there would like to thank him for it. Don't seem to be getting any feedback from Nottingham Falconers is the reason being that there not as experienced as they make out to be? Or is it the fact they haven't got time for novices. I await your replies..........

[OutFlying]

Firstly would like to say thank you to MattG for the links he as posted for me have emailed British falconry club asking them for club details if there is any local to me. Also Scremin Jay as got a valued point there would like to thank him for it. Don't seem to be getting any feedback from Nottingham Falconers is the reason being that there not as experienced as they make out to be? Or is it the fact they haven't got time for novices. I await your replies..........

Have you done your homework yet ?

[Ninja-Jon]

Look i haven't come into this forum saying i know anything about BOP I've hold my hands up high saying i know jack ****. from the threads I've posted several falconers have said i am not ready for a bird and I've took there advice will not be getting one this season What I'm saying is there are several Nottm Falconers in this forum but not one of them as offered any help why? Has for your comment's have you done your home work what do you mean by that I am trying to get as much help and advice as possible

[OutFlying]

You have posted you have no knowledge at all, you where then advised to at least read a book to get a grounding or insight into what is required as a minimum. I suggested to you earlier that I was willing to help any newbie as long as they had done there own bit and didn't expect everything to be spoon fed, but they have to be willing and do things for themselves.

You now appear to be demanding help and it seems people owe it to you to teach you, with this attitude its no wonder there not rushing forward to offer help. WHAT action other than an email have YOU done to further your falconry knowledge.

Jim.

[Moses]

Look i haven't come into this forum saying i know anything about BOP I've hold my hands up high saying i know jack ****. from the threads I've posted several falconers have said i am not ready for a bird and I've took there advice will not be getting one this season What I'm saying is there are several Nottm Falconers in this forum but not one of them as offered any help why? Has for your comment's have you done your home work what do you mean by that I am trying to get as much help and advice as possible

dont mind outflying mate, he is a nice chap and straight to the point kind of guy doesnt beat behind the bush a womans ones a different story :D


all the best with your education mate and yes like he said and others get some books and read them, falconry art and practice is my fave too im lucky i got some other glasiers falconry and hawking too older stuff still good for experience, and also jemima's training birds of prey

emma ford one is my fave along with mima's book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0715312383/qid=1124039908/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-0972660-1305459

[SecretSquirrel]

as for the books, I’ve found all my books offer something i need, so i wouldn’t discard any of them fortunately, but yes, some are better at explaining some aspects of falconry and other books describe the rest. confusing i know, but hey, Ill try to explain:


THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FALCONRY: adrian walker.

this book is just like a dictionary, so if you hear any terms and don’t know what they mean. you can just look them up easily. :D

UNDERSTANDING BIRDS OF PREY: nick fox

This one is fab, take all those videos nick fox has created
( nutrition,anatomy etc) and write them all down and this is what you get! A permanent resource to look up I’d say almost anything in the lifespan of the bop, its like having nick fox’s brain on yer bookshelf! Heavily based on the biology and behaviour of the bird, but that’s what I’m interested in so it works for me.

TRAINING BoP: jemima P-Jones

Dated and a classic, but an overall view of the characteristics of various BoP/owls and education into the housing and nutrition needed.i love the way she writes like she speaks! Good read.

FALCONRY-ART AND PRACTICE: Emma Ford.

Much like the above book, focussing more on the training and practical aspect of flying the raptors at quarry. Featuring examples of housing and nutrition, general husbandy and even a pattern for a hood! This is a fantastically helpful read and a great hunting resource.

There’s a couple of books that can be found by Allan Oswald which focus on the sports history –just for interest.

Oh yeah and HAWKING AND FALCONRY FOR BEGINNERS: Adrian hallgarth
Which I have to say has the best photography in a falconry book so far. Its laid out in a simple form and to the point. Excellent book I thought.

The rest I have are just a little too detailed into the anatomy or conservation and would buy them after the initial introduction to the sport, there’s enough to learn already without scaring you with how the circulatory system works!
And you’ve already got phil glazier, so, I hope some of my library choices help you out, I’ve found them invaluable.
By the way, what’s some of the most useful books everyone else has on their shelves? (I don’t mean the whole lot of course)

[OutFlying]

Desert Hawking - very good book if not the best.

[Moses]

u adrians mate :D

adrians book i got it, very good, and very short compared to emma fords book no offence intended adrian coz i sure luv your book

to start off with i think the man should get emma fords book which has alot of stuff in it including illness and first aid etc etc a book u can always go back to and learn more

[Moses]

Desert Hawking - very good book if not the best.

mate how much does that cost and is it a different method of training we dont have a desert except the beaches in the lake district newcastle and all :D

if u r selling it at a good price pls give me a shout out

cheers

[Ben C]

Ninja-jon:

They don't have to offer their help jon do they, it may be what you'd expect but hey........lifes a pain :) :) Use the net to find an centre near you and then ask about if its any good?

I found it best by going on an experience day. At least then when you pick up the books you will understand the 'hawk' speak. The books you require will be dependent on the hawk you chose. It is NOT easy and if done correctly will cost you LOADS. Bottom line OF is right.....as with everything in life YOU have to do the work first. But BOOKS are BOOKS, you need an apprentiship scheme, mentor system or club membership. :) :)

Good Luck

[Moses]

Ninja-jon:

They don't have to offer their help jon do they, it may be what you'd expect but hey........lifes a pain :) :) Use the net to find an centre near you and then ask about if its any good?

I found it best by going on an experience day. At least then when you pick up the books you will understand the 'hawk' speak. The books you require will be dependent on the hawk you chose. It is NOT easy and if done correctly will cost you LOADS. Bottom line OF is right.....as with everything in life YOU have to do the work first. But BOOKS are BOOKS, you need an apprentiship scheme, mentor system or club membership. :) :)

Good Luck


what he means in short is its a bit like a sex book, u can make all the effort u like with a book but its not the real thing, real thing by far is alot better :D not just huffing and puffing with a book

i hope thats good enuff

[OutFlying]

Moses, it goes into great detail training different hawks not only applicable in the desert :wink: I think a copy went £170 + on ebay the other month. That was for Desert Hawking with a little help. I wouldn't sell my copy, its a book you can read over and over again and still enjoy it and learn something - not many books like that.

OF.

[Renton]

It is NOT easy and if done correctly will cost you LOADS.


Too true!

[Moses]

Moses, it goes into great detail training different hawks not only applicable in the desert :wink: I think a copy went £170 + on ebay the other month. That was for Desert Hawking with a little help. I wouldn't sell my copy, its a book you can read over and over again and still enjoy it and learn something - not many books like that.

OF.

thanks alot bud, my God , cheers i will give it a miss,thats a bit expensive for me , must be a very old book mate i tried to locate it in amazon nothing their

thanks bud , appreciate it

[Ninja-Jon]

Comments appreciated outflying point taken maybe i am expecting a little more than wot folks are offering With it being a forum thought ppl would feed me the answers that i would ask but obviously not.. Also sorry if i came across with a attitude but wasn't intended i am keen to learn read and willing to go on a course not a problem.

[OutFlying]

NJ,
Not a problem, if I was you I'd go a long to a couple of clubs (after reading and basic homework :lol: ) as a guest and ask the people attending what your intentions are and i'm sure if your keen enough and willing to listen to their advice - you will be on the right path. Then if you feel you still require to go on a course then do so. Central Falconry Club meet at Leicester, British falconry club has a midlands region.

If your really stuck for a day out watching hawks hunting, I will give you a day out.

Jim.

[Ben C]

ninja-Jon:

About every 30 seconds a newbie (myself included) comes on the forum and says "I want a hawk or I've got a Harris, or I've got an Imprint spar to sell". Its difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaff. The longer you hang around and watch the posts the easier it becomes. :) :)

Take this advice from 'king stupid poster' the III. :wink:

[Ninja-Jon]

Thank you very much Outflying i will be doing alot of reading and will be in contact with Central Falconry Club. Will also take your advice Ben C

[SecretSquirrel]

of course practical is the best, but without theorectical back up you will take longer to be a good falconer imho. you cant learn about first aid with a bird that hasnt needed any, and when you do need to know about what bumble foot looks like for example, a book is where you can see and read about it or any other aspects of falconry that your first experiences of practical wont cover. there was mention about the cost of courses, yes they are expensive, but then again , if you cant afford a course, you cant afford to keep / house a raptor. the housing will cost you a few hundred if done correctly, then theres the furniture and accessories (ones you dont make yourself) and the vets and food and insurance, it costs money all the time, but if budgetted correctly its well worth it. good luck again! :D

[Falconry Equipment International]

Ninja-jon:

They don't have to offer their help jon do they, it may be what you'd expect but hey........lifes a pain :) :) Use the net to find an centre near you and then ask about if its any good?

I found it best by going on an experience day. At least then when you pick up the books you will understand the 'hawk' speak. The books you require will be dependent on the hawk you chose. It is NOT easy and if done correctly will cost you LOADS. Bottom line OF is right.....as with everything in life YOU have to do the work first. But BOOKS are BOOKS, you need an apprentiship scheme, mentor system or club membership. :) :)

Good Luck
Hi Ben
not all falconry course providers have a centre ( any way hoiw can a falconry centre be what it says... I thought falconry was hunting wild quarry with a falcon. how can this be done at a centre? :lol: )

[Ninja-Jon]

Found this on the net £168.00 3 day falconry course www.frittonlakefalconry.co.uk Would this be a good course or not..

[Ben C]

NO! Unless they offer a mentoring service and tell you to go away and wait a year after paying £168 pounds and learning the basics. :) :)

[Sprout]

They're closing down too soon I think

[Bengal Owl]

Hi all what are the essential things i will be needing to start up with? Is there any folks on here selling anything that would be essential to me i am not looking to buy a bird yet probably month from now will be looking also what is the better of the 2 birds a male or female Harris hawk i already have land to fly at quarry with. Also how old should the bird be that i purchase sorry these may sound like silly questions but i am a complete novice at it..

ninja jon don't take me wrong here but from your first post i think you have been taken the wrong way in what you said
basically you have made it sound like your going to run down the road buy a bird and try flying it. it has taken me 2 years before i got my owl and that with training courses i get sent on with work thing to Bear in mind
1 have you got the space and time for a bird
2 vets insurance housing and care for the bird
3 equipment
4 who will take care of it and fly it when your away on hols
and that's just some of the thing you need to think before getting one
if you think and BoP can live up to 40 year with some that most of your life with it for me i had one vet try charging me £250 and that's with out
a treatment just for him to look and check it out
so its not something to rush witch is the point every-ones trying to make
its best if you go out with someone learn the ropes and if they trust you they may have a bird they trust you with to fly with them break the cost down how much its all going to cost on courses for the aviary and equipment before you think of get one if it take 2 or 3 or longer then be it

[Ninja-Jon]

Point taken MattG yes it does sound like that. I'm not the best of persons at putting what I'm thinking into words as you can see from my previous threads i have posted sorry it as come across to everyone on the forum that way But i have took notice of what as been said to me and now are going to do some serious research into falconry and a lot of reading and sort myself a falconry course to go on hope this puts every ones mind at rest now. As for financial side of things that will not be a problem as for time with the bird training and or the other things that go with it to make one a good falconer not a problem space for the birds Mews not a problem Land to fly with the bird or hunt will not be a problem as will any of the other points you have mentioned. I do appreciate every-ones views as it is all beneficial to me.

[Takajo]

But, Jon, you DO have the motivation and love of the sport in you! That's obvious. Definitely start slowly but surely getting your equipment together, reading and watching videos as you go. Hanging out with falconers/teachers of falconry. Maybe signing up for a formal course. Definitely surfin around this forum is a wealth of info. Your motivation will have you into everything that's to do with falconry.
P.S. Don't go out and get a bird just yet, dude :wink:

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi ninja-jon
pm'd you
But i have took notice of what as been said to me and now are going to do some serious research into falconry .
that sopunds prety good to me
and a lot of reading.
be careful here, In falconry there are many ways of doing things, some books can contradict each other, ( some even contradict themselves within their own text! Please also think carefully about the specific skills of your mentor/ course provider etc,what type of land (and how much) you have to fly on, what is the quarry base etc, etc before choosing what is to be your your first hawk, species wise.
and sort myself a falconry course to go on hope this puts every ones mind at rest now.., just make sure it is the right one! Also don't worry too much about everyone else re putting minds at rest, most important thing is that you feel a lot happier taking whatever course of action you are, ( of course ..no pun intended taking your birds welfare into account before anything)
As for financial side of things that will not be a problem.
Glad to hear although if you do things right, you will not find this a cheap sport!
as for time with the bird training and or the other things that go with it to make one a good falconer not a problem space for the birds Mews not a problem Land to fly with the bird or hunt will not be a problem as will any of the other points you have mentioned. I do appreciate every-ones views as it is all beneficial to me.
well said, I hope that this has been helpful too , does not sound to arrogant( I have been in this game for a little while!)

[Hawkmaster]

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