Should I sell Moses a Creche reared HH?

[Varmint]

Im posting this not to embarass moses or to judge him unjustly, but to allow him some broad spectrum feed back from other forum members to allow him to make the right decision?

Thats what we should be here for, no halp folk in exactly the same situ as moses.

I have available two alaternative hawks for Moses, a 15 week old Creche reared Female HH and a 15 week old parent incubated, hatched and parent reared Female HH raised in complete seclusion.

He wants the creche, but i dissagree as his knowledge and experience arent ready to tackle some of the probs he's gonna get with noise and aggression?

Also im unsure about his accomodation plans?

What do you all think?

[Ben C]

I think he should be treated like anyone else: If I PERSONALLY was to sell ANY harris hawk, regardless of rearing I would want to see pictures of the mews and weathering, permission slips for land and speak to his mentor.

Also what are his exact reasons for a creche over a PR?

Its your call though :) :)

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi Varmint,
with you on this one m8 , of course ben has very valid points, but I am sure this goes without saying . BTW how many males are left?

[Wightwings]

not knowing Moses on a personal level but hving had some very good banter with him on here AND what i know about Creche reared birds etc etc I would most defintaly recommend the Parent reared bird. I would also suggest a male would have been better but at this time of year you have to go with what is available.

As for housing i cannot comment i do not know Moses' plans but knowing him i am sure he is open to the plentiful advise and information avialable on here.

AND finally, im sure you yourself Varmit having the vast experience you have should be able to judge a prospective buyers capabilities and and be able to make a balanced view on wether to sell him one or not :wink: :wink: :D

[HawkMan69UK]

definatly pr ..but are we talking this year as moses has no acomadation yet..and he is moving????????

[Varmint]

well, i have got to tell the truth, alarm bells are ringing cause i know how moses wants to do everything right (Goodman) but i still know how in experienced and ill prepared he is? right down to saving a quid on pliers? :lol:

My main concern is that he hasnt built accom yet, but is talking about a shed?

No Telemetry, and no mentor?

I've got 4 males left Jay.

[Wightwings]

well tht does SHED a different light on it..... :lol: nothing wrong with a shed if converted right, they can be a good base to start from. As for the rest, moving hous etc i would humbly suggest the time is not right.

[Shaun Byrne]

Moses, my mate.

I think you should think real hard about this one. A creche reared HH in the wrong hands will become a complete pain in the arse mate. They are noisy which will be permanent if not given the right stimulus and handling. They are also prone to being aggressive on kills and throwing strops for no apparent reason. The main thing they need (imho) is lots of regular hunting, at least 5 days a week and plenty of feeds off kills.

Do you REALLY think you can handle all (and more) of the above?

Your next question should be, have you the time to man and train ANY bird while you are trying to build accommodation and possibly move house?

I think you will gain a lot of respect on here if you put off getting a bird until next season and I think anyone on the forum who breeds HH, would
gladly sell to someone who has had the balls to take a step back and prepare more thoroughly.

Just my personal opinion :D

[Goldie]

Well I'll be more to the point. I wouldn't sell him either and make no apologies for saying so. I have absolutely no axe to grind with moses and have like lots of guys on here, had a good bit of banter with him however, there is nothing he has posted gives me any reason to think he is in anyway competent or ready enough to be having a bird at this time.
The exact opposite appears to be the case more often that not.
Unfortunately there is nothing to stop people from getting a BOP wether ready or not but as a breeder myself I can choose who I sell to and in the case of Moses (at this moment in time) it would have to be no.

While on the soapbox, there are a few others on this Forum I wouldn't have sold one to either.

yours in sport
Jim

[GoneHawking]

I certainly think that a good sound P/R bird would be the way to go, I also belive that a female would be a sound first choice bird, I think he will have a bit more fun with a female and catch more quarry, The males need a bit more knowledge to get going really well and stricter weight management in order to get the best from them, hunting wise.
I also think that NO bird should be sold to anyone, unless accomadation and basic equipment, and atleast someone close by to help him are sought first.
I have based my opinions on any begginer and in no way reflect on moses himself, who I don't know anything about.

[OutFlying]

Agreed Gonehawking

[Falcon]

Sorry Moses but I agree with the others, PR would be your best option, although i think you would be better waiting another year, and get yourself set up. We've all been through this ourselves, waiting for the right time, getting all the equipment, housing and all sorted, etc, etc, If you wait another year, and get all your stuff put together, and housing sorted, you'll be able to spend time with the hawk and not worry about what you need, what you should be getting on with, and the likes. All the best

Falcon

[Finnish]

I agree with Falcon. Moses i had to wait another year when i wanted my first bird. I lived in a rented house, so had nowhere to keep the bird. It was only when i bought a house of my own that i was able to build an aviary. It was a long year waiting to get my house, going out with my friends and not having a bird of my own


Finnish

[Tim Laycock]

Moses,
Wait until next season m8. You stand to loose a good deal by rushing but everthing is to be gained by playing the waiting game :wink:

[Finnish]

Moses you will do the right thing mate i no you will. :wink:

[Kornie]

Moses, one thing you have to remember is your bird could live with you for another 25 years! And you want to wait until your experianced enough to get what YOU want... not what was handy at the time... wait, get out in the field with some falconers and study until you are ready to get what you want.

[ColdZero]

I wouldn't sell him a bird until he had decent accomodation. Also, only even consider a PR bird if you had someone nearby to help you out like with the falcon :roll:

Why do you want a creche reared mate? If there is a specific reason then don't go for second best and be disappointed, do some research, try and see one hunt and get one next year or come to a new decision.

[Varmint]

Why do you want a creche reared mate? If there is a specific reason then don't go for second best

So R u saying that a creche reared is second best CZ?

Moses i think you are seeing where some folks are coming from and the reason why i wont accept your deposit mate!

I like you a lot and thats why im not gonna sell you either mate, i've also got to do the right thing by the bird, and im sure that you owning one just now isnt the right thing.

Id be delighted to let you have either bird next year when you can show me some pics of a lovely, well planned chamber and you know what your talking about.

That said, id still like you to call up to my place and have a chat and maybe realise one or two more important points.

Hope to see you soon man :wink:

[BlackHawke]

i dont really know moses aint spoke to him much, dont know his circumstances although the issues over his mews like varmint said is a concern. but if this issue was satisfactorarily sorted then i'm gonna disagree with all u guys! why shouldnt he have a creche reared as a first bird.

which is more difficult to man, train and fly a cr harris or a redtail?? never flown a red but i know people who have and read on here they dont seem to easy to me when compared to a harris even a creche reared one yet how come many people buy them as a first bird?

i know myself that although i read loads of books about falconry (many contradicting each other) and spoke to many people before i got my bird, i really learnt nothing until i got my first bird. if moses is the type of person to ask questions, listen to advice and make informed decisions from information recieved is there owt wrong with him having a cr harris?

goldie said that there are people on here that he wouldnt be willing to sell his birds to. how many of them have been flying for a few years? had a few birds?

i was speaking to someone night before last he's been flying for 30 years, he said himself that at times he gets jaded with falconry. how many of u on here put so much time effort and most importantly care into your first bird compared to subsequent birds. how many people say they had an immature harris flying free within a couple of weeks? ok over the years you've learnt a lot, honed your skills but is there any substitute for spending quality time getting to know your bird?

i personally think if moses has the mews, time and is willing to ask questions and willing to listen and act on the advice i dont see any reason why he shouldnt have a cr harris.

i was offered a cr harris not so long back but i refused it, the reason for me was i already had a harris that i flew, i knew little about creche reared birds, but i asked questions found out more about them n now i would feel comfortable taking one on.

life is a learning curve, dont live your life u dont learn anything

[Adam Barrett]

i agree with what most people have said on here.

i dont think this thread just applies to moses and should go for anyone considering thier first hawk.

although im not a breeder i would never consider selling a bird to anyone with out first atleast seeing their mews-no matter if they had 50 years experiance or non to speak of.

i think varmint and others are showing a very good attitude and right now without either seeing your mews or knowing of your knowledge would support him in his decision not to sell you a bird.

dont take this as a personal attack moses as i have said i know nothing about you really but the welfare of the bird is paramount.

cheers
Adam

[GoneHawking]

From my point of view the main issue here seems to be that he hasn't got anywhere to house the hawk, and seems to have little knowledge of the sport, If he were to go on a good course and sort out the basics, like accomadation and equipment etc, then I'm sure peoples views would be different.

[Bubo]

Varmint, you surprise me (and jester) with this question. You are usually very opinionated about this (which is a good thing) and to hell with what every one else thinks (which is also good) so how comes you are letting the forum decide? :wink:

[MickeyDredd]

Sign him up for an apprenticeship Adrian then you'll know if he has got what it takes :wink:

I would certainly advise Moses to wait until he is ready in terms of personal accomodation, bird accomodation, but most of all experiance.
You may remember I did my apprenticeship whilst living in a flat, then bought a house in the country with a large garden and had my aviary built before getting my first hawk, by which time I felt I was reasonably competent enough to take on a hawk (and importantly you did too!).
ps borrowing one of your adult hawks for a few months was also a great help to get the daily bird management experience before taking on a young bird.

[Bubo]

very good answer mickey!! :lol: (does this support deserve one of your owls??? :wink: :lol: )

bubs

[MickeyDredd]

No, go away :lol:

[Talon]

i allso think parent reared is best bet for him .
so why is he going for creche reared is it because there cheaper in price.
if so theres a no no.straight away.
you carnt cut corners in falconry.
if he gets a creche reared bird and things go wrong.ie
a screeming mes .what will he do with bird.
now one will want it.carnt sell it...only to some one who knows nothing about birds so ends up in the wrong hands. geting passed from owner to owner.i seen it happen before.
so wait till next year m8 and get parent reared.
hope you dont take any of this advice wrong way.
just trying to help....... :)

[Jastreb]

I know how I was keen to get my first bird - Common Buzzard, but I had falconry course first, then I built accomodation and then I get a bird from my mentor.
I think that Moses is very cool guy and if he built the aviary and get the course he can have the bird, BUT PR BIRD NOT CR DEFINITLY!
Cheers Jastreb

[Moses]

thanks for all the messages guys

as some of u know i have already waited many months now as u know i got my falcon the first week i joined here thats 7 months ago, yes im not as experienced as any of u guys i never ever did say i was, ive been at it like an idiot reading all books i can get my hand on and asking questions and annoying mass, brian and hawkmaster and hawka but i still dont disagree with all u guys said coz u r right but only thing im hurt at is

my dear friend adrian i got alot of respect for u, if u did have to post about selling a bird to me my friend at least post all the message i sent u not just bits and pieces, thats what hurt me, u made me sound like a unprepared pratt when it came to housing and mews etc, u can ask my mate brian a few months back i was gonna get a harris only stuff stopped me was coz i was in the middle of trying to sell my house and i was free for many weeks so i could have manned and trained my hawk during that time i was offered red tails and harris's but i didnt take them coz of this reason, now it was september and hunting season was starting i had my mate steven their whos land i have permission and and to hunt with his mates and their was brian who would be ready for hunting again and been told he just got another few acres in land to hunt just last week.

this was the message i sent to adrian
--------------------------
do me a favour adrian pls

if u can open a paypal account

paypal.co.uk i have about 80 quid their the rest i will transfer next week

i need to ask u for a favour

can u hold onto it for maybe 3 to 6 weeks till i get the mews sorted , i dont know when my house is selling meanwhile im gonna get a 8x6 shed and cut away the wooden flour and get pea gravel etc and i do have a concrete base anyway in my backgarden so i can just cut away the wooden flour and cover the concrete with pea gravel

pls if u can would u hold it for me

thanks adrian
--------------------------------------

if u notice the above post first of all i asked him to keep it for me for 3 to 6 weeks he will confirm this is a genuine message.

then i said to him coz im in the middle of selling my house and like others already know i have said it in the posts i dont wanna build a mew ,i did say to adrian my intention was to build a mews to handle at least 3 birds for the future and a scale room so basically i didnt want to dismantle it all when moving my house so in the meanwhile as i have typed in the message im going to make do with a 8x6 shed and cut out the wooden floor for hygiene and i do have a concrete base in the back garden and i will fill the middle of the shed with pea gravel

and i do have my own joiner who works for me basically who can build a shelf perch but only after it was tame and ready to be let loose in the shed than being tethered.

so i asked for 3 to 6 weeks if he can keep it after i paid for it and then during that time i will get that shed sorted and other stuff i need

so im all for advice as u all know , i always do annoy for advice anyways but all i ask for is at least post all my message and not just bits and pieces my friend so other people can judge me on that message and nothing else.

thanks anyway

[Moses]

I know how I was keen to get my first bird - Common Buzzard, but I had falconry course first, then I built accomodation and then I get a bird from my mentor.
I think that Moses is very cool guy and if he built the aviary and get the course he can have the bird, BUT PR BIRD NOT CR DEFINITLY!
Cheers Jastreb

thanks alot jas appreciate it mate

[Ben C]

Moses we are not judging you at all mate :) The question is should Varmint sell you a hawk or not. Of course he should, but ONLY when you have Proper accomodation, ATTENDED a course and got A MENTOR, Got your OWN land etc etc.

[Bubo]

No, go away :lol:

:lol: :lol: worth a try 8)

[ColdZero]

not what i meant adrian, i said if you want a creche reared bird don't settle for a bird you don't want, ie don't get a male if you want a female if you have a specific reason for wanting a female.

[BlackHawke]

well i think moses has a pretty good answer as far as his mews is concerned!!

i'd be a hypocrit if i said do an apprentice scheme i didnt but i am a member of the welsh hawking club, they at the time gave me all the help, support n advice needed before i got my bird. plus i spoke to the breeder of my first bird at length who gave me loads of tips and information for free. if i'm not mistaken he's already got a bird aswell

i'm sure if moses didnt wanna spend loads of money on a pr bird u can pick em up in the ibr £200 or less.

moses reply to this thread i think unless he completly talking out of his a**e (which i wouldnt have thought he is) has answered most concerns people on here have got?? :D

[Moses]

well i think moses has a pretty good answer as far as his mews is concerned!!

i'd be a hypocrit if i said do an apprentice scheme i didnt but i am a member of the welsh hawking club, they at the time gave me all the help, support n advice needed before i got my bird. plus i spoke to the breeder of my first bird at length who gave me loads of tips and information for free. if i'm not mistaken he's already got a bird aswell

i'm sure if moses didnt wanna spend loads of money on a pr bird u can pick em up in the ibr £200 or less.

moses reply to this thread i think unless he completly talking out of his a**e (which i wouldnt have thought he is) has answered most concerns people on here have got?? :D

thanks blackhawke, over the months mate i been offered many a a bird but i didnt take it only coz i didnt know when my house was selling, i had spare 2 months to do what i wanted , train the hawk and fly it etc etc

but i didnt coz of it, it was getting to the stage i couldnt hold on any more, everyones gonna go out hunting and i wanted to buy a hawk and start the training before winter is upon us when i have time to train it.

no bullshit mate i wanted a goshawk its a tradition beginners bird from muslims from pakistani origin and in pakistan , only coz when they get attached to u its amazing and become so tame, but they have an advantage of a parent falconery or an uncle or family members which i dont, last week i was tempted for one i even phoned goldie, he said he sold the last and no new ones will be available till next yr

it was a spur of the moment thing and i do know he probably wont have sold it to me anyway but its a bird i always wanted a goshawk or a peregrine but learning about falcons has put me aff totally its def for the experts coz they travel miles and miles and brian loosing his falcon twice has put me aff as well , at least with a hawk its always nearby

regarding someone talking about not having a telemetry, when did a beginner ever need a telemetry when he aint gonna fly freely for at least 3 to 4 weeks when all i will be doing is manning it to get it used to the new home and dropping its weight and making it fly to the glove and training it on a creance, its not that im ill equiped coz of the equipment , telemetry is something i need when im gonna fly it freely , that comes afterwards

and if u think i didnt think of that pls go to ebay.co.uk and put in falconry

and see theirs a telemetry in their 2 channels and i was the first one to bid on it and now its gone over 300 quid

that was 2 weeks or so ago, i was thinking of the future thats why i bid on it.

but i will take your advice like i did with the falcon the last time, im gonna wait till i move into my new house and train myself or even borrow another bird for experience and i wont buy a harris this time but a goshawk and God willing i will imprint it on me and give it the best training possible after i trained myself

thanks for the info and thanks for the kind words sarah and blackhawke and jas
and talon mate i asked adrian about creche reared and pr in the past and he critisized emma ford for saying it, coz i actually posted her paragraph in the training a falcon thread and he said she always buys creche reared ones from me and benc told me about cody as well and he was creche reared

so in a way he gave me the go ahead in my brain that creche reared were fine that post was maybe 6 or 7 weeks ago and have a look

but its cool i will wait another good few months and God willing then get a hawk i really wanted


cheers

[Adam Barrett]

i wont buy a harris this time but a goshawk and God willing i will imprint it on me

no no no mate :lol: 8)

Your planning to start off in falconry with a imprint gos :o
i dont think ill be the only person to say this but it would be best to get this idea out of your head untill you have had atleast a couple of GOOD seasons with a broadwing behind you.

[Moses]

lol i was waiting for that, i did say when im properly trained and borrow another bird again :D

mate lil kids in pakistan start with a goshawk but yes its different here like i said

trust me God willing i will do it properly the training before i go for one goshawks wont be available till next august my friend :D

here blackhawke here is the thread that triggered creche reared hawks in my brain

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4574


heres what adrian says
-------
Its funny that Emma Ford only fly's Creche reared HH's at her school then eh?

FACT: i have suppied her with some and i know she has ordered only creche reared from a friend?????

Moses, this is a fickle topic and one which i feel is of personal preferance, but basically creche reared birds are far steadier, friendlier, need less conditioning by weight and therefore fly at much higher, healthier weights.

Yes they do make noise to start with, but the more you fly and kill with them, the better it gets until eventually ther is little or no noise at all.

Having said all of this, the begginer may prompt other reponses from their birds completley by accident or ignorance?
-------------------

well listening to a professional what the **** does a beginner do :D take it with a pinch of salt or what


cheers

[Ben C]

Moses you are right mate Cody is creche reared but I spent the FIRST SEVEN WEEKS with him every day from 7am through til dusk. I also fly him 7 days a week (weather permitting).

But before this I moved house like you are going to :) :) Did my course, got my mentor etc etc. ALL BEFORE getting the hawk :) :) Its has to be done in small stages over A LONG TIME :) :)

I am not putting you off, I personally would love to hear your stories about catching, killing and eating rabbits and game. I love Harris Hawks and anyone who chooses one is alright in my book :) :) But you haven't mentioned who is going to help train you to train it. And what happens when stuff goes wrong? If you love falconry so much then the welfare of your hawk comes before or else and that means being as smart and as prepared as you can :) :)

[Moses]

my friend thanks for your input

my mate steven is a falconer mate the lad who sold the falcon to brian and brian sold his ferruginous hawk to him a few weeks back and i do have brian as well mate but to train it when i do get my hawk i will be doing it myself, theirs alan and the falconer lassie in chatelherault park who said will give me the training too

cleaning ***** and washing pea gravel and cleaning the perches and hawks feet i can do mate if thats what half of the course is gonna be and to feed it and to make it fly to the glove and get its weight down for response in training etc etc and to make sure the mews is clean and spray it with virkon etc

its the training i will need for mainly checking for diseases on feet , skin etc , eyes and beak, plus entering the bird after the training on the creance , for that i will be attending a course but like i said now i will be waiting till next yr, only thing that hurt me was posting bits and pieces of me getting a shed and not the full story :D

otherwise the rest of the posts were excellent and educational.

my friend my hawk will be living with me and watching tv and getting to know the family my friend before locked up at night, pakistani style :D
pity he cant enjoy popcorn while at it , probably make a perch for it a few rooms when its free to stay in the house for a few hrs during the day instead of a prisoner tethered alone in a mew all the time

sorry if my method is not good , for me it will be my hunter and also my friend and pet

cheers

[Moses]

one more thing if it was a harris mate i would start hunting rabbits first , i know alot of farmers since the time i had a shop near kilmarnock and they used to let us hunt rabbits and having rights on a land to hunt game wouldnt have been a problem if i was starting to hunt rabbits first but i have steven who has land and hunts game during the hunting season

cheers

[Varmint]

Moses,

I am sorry you feel that i am judging you, i asure you ia m not i just thought that if you wouldnt take my advise, you may take the advise of all of your friends on here?

It is my choice who is sell my birds to at the end of the day, and i have not recieved any info which suggest that you are a suitable candidate at this stage?

I have invited you to come and meet me and talk things thru on more than one occasion, but still you have not arrived?

I offer my time and experience to you FOC, and still no Moses?

It is interesting that no mention has been made on this thread by Brian? who is the only person on here who has met you personally? i rather hoped he might comment as i know he has seen the thread?

Still no comment?

I am trying to do the right thing by you mate, but i might just be the one who gets it in the back again ( as usual!) for trying to do the right thing!

Rem, i could have just took your cash and run, i didnt and wouldnt!

I like you mate, which i why i would like you to wait till your stuffs together and then i'd be happy to let you have one of my birds no probs!

Pls dont feel bad towards me, cus i only have your best interest's at heart?

[OutFlying]

Can't be fairer than that Adrian, advice free of charge from a professional is rare indeed.

Yours Jim.

[Moses]

Moses,

I am sorry you feel that i am judging you, i asure you ia m not i just thought that if you wouldnt take my advise, you may take the advise of all of your friends on here?

It is my choice who is sell my birds to at the end of the day, and i have not recieved any info which suggest that you are a suitable candidate at this stage?

I have invited you to come and meet me and talk things thru on more than one occasion, but still you have not arrived?

I offer my time and experience to you FOC, and still no Moses?

It is interesting that no mention has been made on this thread by Brian? who is the only person on here who has met you personally? i rather hoped he might comment as i know he has seen the thread?

Still no comment?

I am trying to do the right thing by you mate, but i might just be the one who gets it in the back again ( as usual!) for trying to do the right thing!

Rem, i could have just took your cash and run, i didnt and wouldnt!

I like you mate, which i why i would like you to wait till your stuffs together and then i'd be happy to let you have one of my birds no probs!

Pls dont feel bad towards me, cus i only have your best interest's at heart?

my friend adrian i didnt say u were wrong about asking to sell me a bird or not my friend, i didnt, it was the full message the contents of it and not just out of context words that hurt me bud, regarding the shed and not having the mews when i clearly asked u for a favour once i pay the money can u hold onto it for me for 3 to 6 weeks till i get all my stuff sorted

thats the part i was talking about mate,the rest of the stuff u and goldie and others said i do agree with it , most def u made it sound like he wants a harris and he doesnt have a mew and a telemetry and i did post my response to that and also the original message i sent u mate

and yes u did ask me to come up and i did say i would and u said pls not in the weekend im booked till september that was 2 months ago or over that :D do u remember :D , u said try to come midweek and give me a few days notice we shall have a cup of tea and show u around, i said mate i work during the week and finish at 4 or 5 sometimes inthe weekends im free

thats why i couldnt come up, if i have enuff time to go up to chaterlherault park to check out their birds a few times im sure i got time to come up to perth to check out your birds

thanks for your offer and like i said i did ask u my friend if u can come up, u were too busy in the weekend and rightfully so and i asked u if im free during the week some day i will give u a call but u did ask for a few days notice mate, didnt leave me with a choice then, thats why i couldnt come coz of i do get time off during the week i only find out a night before. so their was no chance of giving a few days notice

my friend a few months ago when i asked u for a harris hawk for september u said sure show me a pic of your mews and garden i said yes when the time comes to get the hawk off u, i will show u it all my mews and equipment by that time God willing hopefully would have sold my house and moved into another

and more over my friend putting a thread about should i sell moses a pr or a creche reared harris when u swear by creche reared birds being better as your reply to my other post a few months back

part of the reason my mind changed towards them, i got mixed messages mate and so at the end choose to buy a creche from u coz u recommended them months ago

cheers anyway adrian so forgive me if any of my words hurt u, i didnt intend to, it was only the mews part i got annoyed with when i was gonna get that sorted before i got my hawk

cheers

[MickeyDredd]

Moses

Your enthusiasm always shines through in your posts, there is no doubt about that in anyone's mind on this forum I'm sure.

If I can give you some advice it would be to spend this season with an experienced falconer flying either a RT or HH and learn as much about the art of falconry as possible in that time. There is nothing to beat practical experience, books are fine to give an insight and the theory behind the management of a hawk but it is something else to take on a bird without training or mentoring. Some people manage it, for some it comes naturally through having other fieldsport or animal husbandry experience, for others it does not, but it is in the best interest of the hawk for the falconer to have as much experience as possible before taking on a bird.

Mike

[Moses]

Moses

Your enthusiasm always shines through in your posts, there is no doubt about that in anyone's mind on this forum I'm sure.

If I can give you some advice it would be to spend this season with an experienced falconer flying either a RT or HH and learn as much about the art of falconry as possible in that time. There is nothing to beat practical experience, books are fine to give an insight and the theory behind the management of a hawk but it is something else to take on a bird without training or mentoring. Some people manage it, for some it comes naturally through having other fieldsport or animal husbandry experience, for others it does not, but it is in the best interest of the hawk for the falconer to have as much experience as possible before taking on a bird.

Mike

mike well put my friend and i appreciate it, yes im def gonna give it a miss again, it hurts alot i waited a full 7 months for september to come and im screwed again, just my luck, i was born to do falconry its in our blood as muslims a part of our culture so it hurts i cannae get to do it :D

better luck next time for me i hope

me being born here and hardly going to pakistan mate i missed alot in falconry education coz i only ever been their 4 times i regret it i had a chance to go their last yr for a few months but i didnt , would have been good trapping your own wild bird and training it

cheers mike your a cool guy mate

thanks

[BrianM]

RIGHT where do i start ,,, pretty much what has been said is true moses as keen as anything to learn the art of falconry ,, maybe a little too keen, he is all over the shop at the moment , but with a little time spent working on his mews and forgetting all this stuff about keeping the bird in his home he will become the falconer that he wants to be ,, at the end of the day its a free country and if he wants to buy a bird wither its from ade or somebody else its up to him,,( ADE i dont appreciate you shouting me out on the open forum, if i want to post on a subject i will),,,,,,but i do feel he would be better to wait,,, PS ive only met moses twice both times at my house , so ive no idea as to where the bird would be kept,,,,,,

brian

[Moses]

RIGHT where do i start ,,, pretty much what has been said is true moses as keen as anything to learn the art of falconry ,, maybe a little too keen, he is all over the shop at the moment , but with a little time spent working on his mews and forgetting all this stuff about keeping the bird in his home he will become the falconer that he wants to be ,, at the end of the day its a free country and if he wants to buy a bird wither its from ade or somebody else its up to him,,( ADE i dont appreciate you shouting me out on the open forum, if i want to post on a subject i will),,,,,,but i do feel he would be better to wait,,, PS ive only met moses twice both times at my house , so ive no idea as to where the bird would be kept,,,,,,

brian

thanks alot brian for the reply mate, cheers before i buy a hawk bud i will have the shed or the mews long time before that and i would luv to keep it in the garden and also in the house as well during the day before locked in the mews thats what i meant by that, thats why i asked adrian for a favour to keep it their till i get my shed , i was even gonna cut out the wooden floor so it will be hygienic enuff to wash and put pea gravel under neath it so it will be easy to wash and having a concrete base as a ground anyway thought this was the best option for a lil while

yes brian met me twice but we speak often, i thank God for a most helpful chap like brian , he is brilliant

thanks mate for being their for me, your awesome

[Sean]

moses do you have ferrets? there essential

[OutFlying]

not true

[Sean]

there are if your gonna go after mainly rabbits. aleast when ive been hawking i rarley see a rabbit sitting out enough for a decent slip

[Wightwings]

moses do you have ferrets? there essential

thats me fcked then........ :roll:

[Ben C]

..................................if the ground is good.

[OutFlying]

there are if your gonna go after mainly rabbits. aleast when ive been hawking i rarley see a rabbit sitting out enough for a decent slip

Maybe your need a dog (pointing breed).

[Sean]

well i mean you cant do it with just a hawk on its own,

[Bod]

Moses
You are obviosly keen and passionate about getting your bird.
Have you thought about an apprenticeship with Varmint.
That way if I understand it correctly you get experience in every aspect of falconry throughout the year and V has control over the bird. No doubt you would take on a young bird and bring it through all aspects of training under supervision, then hopefully you might get to buy the bird next year.
Might be worth an enquiry if you have the time.

[BlackHawke]

hawk n a good stick, lots of bushes had plenty of wabbits last season! :D

[Ben C]

you may even get a woodcock or two with that method BH :)

[BlackHawke]

y u think i got tess!!! :D

[Adam Barrett]

especially in your going to fly feather :wink:

i have been flying my harris succesfully at rabbits without ferrts although i must admit at times they would make things easier.

was out with the hawk last week when she nailed this little lad.
Soft as owt e is a little star :lol: :wink:

[Sean]

was he a feral? :o lol

[Moses]

moses do you have ferrets? there essential

no my friend i wasnt thinking of buying one at all i know many hawk owners who dont have it still have success
but i may change my mind in the future mate

[BlackHawke]

quality not quantity!!

[Adam Barrett]

was he a feral? lol

think some one must of left him there after he killed down-from the looks of things he had been out a whil-he is starting to perk up now-would you have a guess at how old he is?

sorry to hyjack the thread :oops: :lol:

[Moses]

Moses
You are obviosly keen and passionate about getting your bird.
Have you thought about an apprenticeship with Varmint.
That way if I understand it correctly you get experience in every aspect of falconry throughout the year and V has control over the bird. No doubt you would take on a young bird and bring it through all aspects of training under supervision, then hopefully you might get to buy the bird next year.
Might be worth an enquiry if you have the time.

hi bud

mate i did think of a course not an apprenticeship , apprenticeship is good if your local to perth and dont have a family to feed and bills to pay, u dont really get paid to clean the poo and wash the mews :D do u u need to pay for it

a course is really helpful only if they teach u with a new wild bird and u tame it and train it and get it to fly to u etc etc then its really worth while mate for a course but to handle a trained bird ,the one that already flies to u and u dont basically need to get it to jump to u, it would anyway just give it some pick up pieces maybe be good for a nice day out and u may learn stuff, i really wanna do a course and learn about the entering it on quarry and lure training and some other bits and pieces like illness's and how to tackle them and what kind of vitamins to give etc etc


i dont wanna pay for a course for a few hundred quid and all i learn to do during half of it is to clean the poo and wash the mews and make jessies that i can do myself if u know what i mean mate

its the stuff that happens afterwards when u train the bird to come to your glove and fly to u, thats what i wanna learn, that will be good

[Adam Barrett]

your best bet maybe to arrange a afternnon hunting experiance moses-if you allready know the basics of handling and early training? :roll:
just a thought
cheers
Adam

[Moses]

your best bet maybe to arrange a afternnon hunting experiance moses-if you allready know the basics of handling and early training? :roll:
just a thought
cheers
Adam

yes mate i would like that most def not even an afternoons even a week will be fine

and getting a hang of the swing lure

like i said mate im all up for training if its a young wild bird, thats an experience coz in the real world thats what its about as u would agree theirs alot of difference between a tame bird and a young wild bird who will foot, bite u and bait all the time

tame one just sits their and is docile and would just hop on as long as it gets a nice treat

[Shaun Byrne]

there are if your gonna go after mainly rabbits. aleast when ive been hawking i rarley see a rabbit sitting out enough for a decent slip

You're not looking hard enough 8)

My male took one the night before last on a 400yd slip, right out in the middle of a stubble field. Give your bird the opportunity to spot them for you :D

PS thanks for the bird BC.

[Bird_Dog]

Hey Moses,

Ever thought about moving to Texas? We're having the same discussions here about whether or not apprentices should be allowed to fly passage HH. I'm not familar with the term creche (I assume it's a form of an imprint HH). Apprentices are not allowed to take eyasses. Did you want a tiercel or female HH? A guy in Texas had an imprint female HH with some major aggression problems. The bird ultimately attacked a young girl riding her bike... he put her down after that. Varmit is probably looking out for ya on this one. :) . Personally I'm for apprentices flying passage HH!

-- BIRD_DOG

[Moses]

Hey Moses,

Ever thought about moving to Texas? We're having the same discussions here about whether or not apprentices should be allowed to fly passage HH. I'm not familar with the term creche (I assume it's a form of an imprint HH). Apprentices are not allowed to take eyasses. Did you want a tiercel or female HH? A guy in Texas had an imprint female HH with some major aggression problems. The bird ultimately attacked a young girl riding her bike... he put her down after that. Varmit is probably looking out for ya on this one. :) . Personally I'm for apprentices flying passage HH!

-- BIRD_DOG


hi mate preferably a female mate they can take a hare down lol me going to texas my friend u guys will lock me up wearing an orange jumpsuit if my face looks a bit too aggressive for the patriot act :D haha just kidding my friend


http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2003/07/18/1bell.jpg

yes bud i do hear of the imprinted birds and how they start fancing u and get jealous and get aggressive, my friend i wont be flying it in a playpark it will be an open countryside or farmland but i def agree with what u said bud, yes mate im all for apprenticeship, i think its 6 weeks a yr in adrians place, its good if your well off and dont need to work to pay the bills and if your in a holiday season and dont need to worry about anything or if your a teenager who does part time, for a family man like me i need to work all the time thats why a weeks course is a good idea but 6 weeks or i cant mind what it does 2 months or more or just 6weeks, its a long time and he is an hrs travel away from me

the reason i said creche was mate, adrian swears by it, we had a frank discussion in the thread i posted and he said they were friendlier fitter and healthier etc if u read the thread and u can find it in the training birds section

thats the reason i had that idea and some other lads who got creche reared birds and r loving it

[Bird_Dog]

How did you know that in Texas we make apprentices wear orange jumpsuits... it's a secret. :shock:

The apprenticeship you're talking about is somewhat different than what we do over here. I wouldn't make you clean my mew or be obligated to work in some way. It's just about helping you learn about falconry.

-- BIRD_DOG

[Moses]

How did you know that in Texas we make apprentices wear orange jumpsuits... it's a secret. :shock:

The apprenticeship you're talking about is somewhat different than what we do over here. I wouldn't make you clean my mew or be obligated to work in some way. It's just about helping you learn about falconry.

-- BIRD_DOG


mate i dont really mind cleaning the mews i just dont want to do something i already know how to and pay someone just to learn how to clean the mew, it was just an example my friend

i would actually luv to help out as a volunteer in the weekends in the morning somewhere in a local falconry just to learn stuff, i would luv to work for them for free just for experience , thats why i preferred a short course than an apprenticeship which is longer and a better bet if u live local to the falconry and have time on your hands like a teenager etc

lol @ jumpsuit, forgive me just a lil lighthearted joke, just said it for a joke many muslims stopped going to disneyland for hols just in case they get locked up :D just for looking arabic

cheers

[Kornie]

Sean, I managed fine with not dog and not ferret, and so did Trinity...

Moses, ill cut a deal with you. For free you can come down at the weekends and clean trinity out, (here's the best bit) FREE OF CHARGE!!!How does that sound :D

I must admit Moses, I wouldnt be much apposed to you having a Harris, it really isn't rocket science, a lot of it is common sense and you have done your research...and you've explained the situation with your mews. AND you seem to have enough people to turn to for pointers and reassurance i.e. forum, brian, your mate steven and Adrian personaly...

You've got ground, done research, got falconry mates, lots of sources, done your research explained the situation with your mews...only thing you are short of is live trips in the field...stalk brian a few times and watch what he does.

[Varmint]

:cry:

[Kornie]

Well, I wouldn't go that far...

[Varmint]

:cry:

[Varmint]

Well i hope that should be enough to lock down this whole sorry episode?

If not please let me know mods cause then i can really go to town

[Varmint]

Constructive? what like? shall i buy i bird i know nothing about or have never handled, indeed or have never seen hunt or know how to hunt and keep it in a garden shed that i dont yet own?

What about? shall i try to buy a goshawk from some one who knows i no diddley and wonder why he wont sell me one?

Or should i just talk about 22 inch rims?

Or should i justr try to seure the cheapest bird i can find?

How constructive do you want me to get?

[Varmint]

Or do you really want me to get constructive?:twisted:

[Varmint]

What about the benefits of cleaning Poo?

Perhaps our friend would like to explain to us what the Poo of a bird is made up of? or seperate its components?

Perhaps he could explain to us how we could tell if our bird is de hydrated from looking at poo?

Or perhaps at which stage of the day our bird may be in optimum condition to fly from looking at poo?

Or perhaps, how to extract and take a simple parasite test from poo?

Or perhaps, how the poo was made and describe the intestinal system of a bird of prey?


Or perhaps, just allow us to know why he keeps talking poo?
8)

[Varmint]

I think that just about raps up the poo topic for now guys and gals!

[HoodWinkle]

Moses is an idiot....but I'm just a new guy

[CanadaManada]

Moses is an ******....but I'm just a new guy

Moses hasn't been on here much after his goshawk died. It isn't a nice thing to lose a bird for any reason. Moses was actually a really nice guy and I never once saw him say another falconer was an idiot.
You are just the new guy and at 17 posts I think you ought to take it easy before you start saying who is and isn't an idiot.

Justin

[K.Massey]

Moses hasn't been on here much after his goshawk died. It isn't a nice thing to lose a bird for any reason. Moses was actually a really nice guy and I never once saw him say another falconer was an idiot.
You are just the new guy and at 17 posts I think you ought to take it easy before you start saying who is and isn't an idiot.

Justin

I think Moses by his own admission would say he was an ******....... but this is a weird resurection of a thread:rolleyes:

[Ben C]

I think Moses by his own admission would say he was an *****....... but this is a weird resurection of a thread:rolleyes:

Ahhhh the sweet memories of the forum.......even the name Varmint makes me smile.

Many a great friday night reading Blackbird write the rudest things in christendom....:supz:

[Harris]

Ahhhh the sweet memories of the forum.......even the name Varmint makes me smile.

Many a great friday night reading Blackbird write the rudest things in christendom....:supz:

The good old days!! :supz:

[MickeyDredd]

indeed!!! :roll::roll:

but this is a weird resurection of a thread:rolleyes:

[Graham Stuart]

Very strange reserection of a Thread:yawinkle:and an even stranger post by someone who hasnt been here long...Graham

[Ben C]

I wonder how long we can keep it going.

Did he ever take up falconry again?

[Graham Stuart]

I wonder how long we can keep it going.

Did he ever take up falconry again?
I hope not:yawinkle:

[Hawkmaster]

NO name calling please!

[MickeyDredd]

What do you mean "again" ? :rolleyes:

He does look in here occasionally I believe but doesnt post, hopefully this thread can be closed and that may continue.



Did he ever take up falconry again?

[Hawkmaster]

The last time Moses was on was the 31st of July 2008

[MickeyDredd]

I know how to check a profile Paul.... ;):lol:

The last time Moses was on was the 31st of July 2008

[Ben C]

coldzero......is he still on here?

Yes he is 26/11/08 at 4.25.......well ****** me sideways.

[Graham Stuart]

coldzero......is he still on here?

Yes he is 26/11/08 at 4.25.......well ****** me sideways.
Sorry mate but im not into that sort of thing...........unless the money is right:yawinkle:....Graham

[HoodWinkle]

Moses hasn't been on here much after his goshawk died. It isn't a nice thing to lose a bird for any reason. Moses was actually a really nice guy and I never once saw him say another falconer was an idiot.
You are just the new guy and at 17 posts I think you ought to take it easy before you start saying who is and isn't an idiot.

Justin

Sorry... but his reasons for not seeking a mentor made me do it. *aside from the poop*:twisted:

[Graham Stuart]

Sorry... but his reasons for not seeking a mentor made me do it. *aside from the poop*:twisted:
He actually have a few mentors mate......Graham

[From High Above]

for me it will be my hunter and also my friend and pet

cheers

birds of prey are not pets

[Kennelre]

This thread is three years old!!!
What's the agenda for reviving a three year old thread???:confused:


...Rene.

[GaryPCO]

This thread is three years old!!!
What's the agenda for reviving a three year old thread???:confused:


...Rene.
the threads are here to be revived lol....wish more people would do it for useful things tho!!!

this aint a useful thread pmsl!!!!

anyhow might releive some boredom i guess!!!:lol:

[K.Massey]

the threads are here to be revived lol....wish more people would do it for useful things tho!!!



Yes .... when a new season approaches then boost some informative threads of the past....but not this:rolleyes:....make a mockery all all the decent diary threads out there that dont get as many viewing as **** like this

[Malcolm Edgar]

Yes .... when a new season approaches then boost some informative threads of the past....but not this:rolleyes:....make a mockery all all the decent diary threads out there that dont get as many viewing as **** like this

Amen to that.
M