Crop not put over

[Bill]

Cleo FHH fed Tues eve full crop of turkey neck.
Still had reasonable crop showing yesterday morning and still some showing lastnight 1/4 approx. Having checked again around 11pm there was still food in the crop but it was decreasing.

Still small amount can be felt but not visible this morning.

Checked with vet yesterday around 6pm who suggested leaving until morning.

She is currently at a good weight and seems bright.

Any views / suggestions

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Personally Bill, I am always very wary about feeding a bird a full crop. I always feel it is better to feed just slightly less of a better quality food.

I do this, for the exact reasons you mention above.

Regards,
Lucky.

[Bill]

Thanks Lucky. But what about a prognosis(Is that the right word Doh!)

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Thanks Lucky. But what about a prognosis(Is that the right word Doh!)

Just keep a very close eye on her Bill.
I personally am very uncomfortable with a bird that has not passed its crop over well within 24 hours.
Make sure that the food passes quickly. Food in the crop that long starts to go sour very quickly.
At what point is her weight? Is she High, Low, on flying weight....actual weights will mean nothing 2 me, not knowing your bird.
Depending on where her wer weight lies would depend on what I personally would do next and what I would give for the next feed.
I would certainly be tempted to pass on any casting being fed with the meal. This would ease some of the work that the bird has to do, to pass the food over.

Providing she is bright and perky as normal, then you probably have nothing to worry about. But if you are unsure, get her to the vets.

Regards,
LLL.

[Bill]

Currently 2lb 6oz. Hunting weight is around 2lb 3 oz so she fairly high.
Currently looking bright and preening on a bow perch in the sun.

Thanks for your help.
Andy

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Currently 2lb 6oz. Hunting weight is around 2lb 3 oz so she fairly high.
Currently looking bright and preening on a bow perch in the sun.

I would be tempted not to feed her too much on her next meal. Maybe two or three SKINNED chicks. She should pass these fairly easily & quickly.
I personally have never fed turkey necks, so I don't know how easlily they are passed, but the biggest problem was probably a crop that was full to bursting....never a good idea!

Hope that helps a little, and fingers crossed, all will be fine and dandy!

Regards,
LLL.

[Tim Laycock]

If any bird of mine had not put its crop fully over in a 12 hour I would be straight to the vet!

Sour crops are not to be ***ced around with :!:

[Bill]

If any bird of mine had not put its crop fully over in a 12 hour I would be straight to the vet!

Sour crops are not to be ***ced around with :!:

you may be right but she was gradually reducing the amount in the crop. Had i gone to the vet he would have said "comr back tomorrow" as he did on the phone.
She cast up the remaining 1/3 ounce half an hour ago.

[Osiris]

Bill take her to the vet m8. As Blackbird said, if it is sour crop then it not a good thing.
The vet can do a gram stain to find out if yeast, bacteria, or some other cause, causes the crop problem. They should also be able to empty and flush the crop and give medications to treat the primary cause of the problem, in addition to medications to stimulate the crop to empty itself. Leaving the old crop contents in the crop, no matter the cause of the crop slowdown, will allow bacteria and yeast normally present in the environment to multiply in the crop. Even if the cause of the crop slowdown was as simple as its food being fed at too cool a temperature, this buildup of bacteria and/or yeast will create another, much more serious, condition.

[Bod]

Bill
On a course I went on with Neil Forbes earlier this year he mentioned Sour crops are not to be ***ced around with

These days he was saying he often cuts the crop to quickly remove the contents rather than trying to wash it out. Stitching the bird up the next day when its a bit stronger and on the road to recovery.

He also said that it is dangerous to allow a young bird to fill up its crop on its first kills contrary to a lot of opinions. His thinking behind this is that a young bird is low in condition and stressed having had its weight cut during manning and entering and the last thing it wants is a full crop and the possibility of it going sour.
I Know Chloe is a few years old so it probably wouldn't apply to her but its is something to be considered by austringers entering their young birds.

Hope Chloe is OK

[Osiris]

She cast up the remaining 1/3 ounce half an hour ago.

oh well Bill, so thats the crop empty now yeh??

[OhMyGod]

So you had a bird with its crop going sour and you put her in the sun?

Not the brightest idea really.

[Tim Laycock]

She cast up the remaining 1/3 ounce half an hour ago.
Good do! :D

[Osiris]

So you had a bird with its crop going sour and you put her in the sun? Not the brightest idea really.

No not really the best idea, if you had a bird with signs of sour crop keep them in a dark place (For Future Reference)

[Sprout]

Still consider checking her at an experienced avian vets. Although she has cast the last part up there may be yeast/bacteria overgrowthetc still in the crop from the remnants of food, this will need to be treated accordingly. Get a crop swab taken.

[Osiris]

Yep Sprout, i would do the same. Its to be on the safe side and to be rest assured

[IAmTheWeasel]

I have had a bird go three days with a crop that was slowly going down in size so I took her to the vets office and we administered a pedyalite solution into her crop to moisten the contents and it quickly passed after that. I regularly feed my birds full crops as this is what they do in the wild whenever they get the chance. The biggest danger with a full crop is that they do not have enough moisture in the crop to soften the food alowing it to sit and ferment causing sour crop. Best way to tell if the crop is soured is to literally smell her breath. I know they don't exeactly have minty fresh breath to begin with, but when they have sour crop the smell could make a billy goat puke!

[Sprout]

Yes they eat full crops in the wild but they are generally fitter than our birds, in better condition and use rangle!!

[IAmTheWeasel]

My birds are in as good if not better shape than in the wild as they are parasite free and get the best of diets too. The only thing that is not as good in captivity(sometimes) is muscle development which has little effect on their constitution. I do not fly my birds or feed them up when they are even remotely thought to be in low condition as this is another reason for them to develop issues such as sour crop as well as other ailments. Another aspect you must look at is that since I do crop the bird up on a regular basis, the crop becomes accustomed to being streched to this capacity. If it is only fed up once in awhile, I am taking a wild guess here, but couldn't this have some effect on the crops efficiency?

[IAmTheWeasel]

As for the rangle, I have seem my last red tail eating a quail on the floor of the mews and she ingested quite a bit of pea gravel on purpose while in mid meal. I think that has little to do with their ability to process a full crop though.

[Sprout]

Good points. I doubt however if our birds ever get as fit as their wild counterparts. I am not arguing with you, I agree with what you've brought up but still think people need to be cautious about giving very full crops.

[SecretSquirrel]

agree with you about muscle tone, someone brought in a tawny to work today and it was built like arnie shwartzenagger (sp?) , however crawling with external paras. ewwwwww

[Bill]

Thanks for your help and advice guys. Will get that crop swab taken to make sure although she seems fine and is putting over her food ok.