Video for my Goldie

[RafikGrais]

I want to share with you this video in the last few days me and my Goldie had a good time together and I reached some better place in our relation

Now what i want to ask is she loves standing on the Glove she comes once I put it on

Can anybody tell me what reactions she might take that i don't know might heart ?
Sorry about the Video but my friend was holding the Mobile vertical

YouTube - My Goldie In Egypt

[FredrickFogg]

Beautiful bird! I don't know anything about goldens, but man, it looks like that bird needs a coping in a bad way!

[Pearl]

i know very little on eagles but i dont understand the question ??

[MickeyDredd]

I think he means "please tell me how I should manage this eagle in a way that i dont get hurt"

i know very little on eagles but i dont understand the question ??

[Pearl]

I think he means "please tell me how I should manage this eagle in a way that i dont get hurt"stop badgering her head would be a start
:rolleyes:

[RafikGrais]

i know very little on eagles but i dont understand the question ??

I’m talking about bad reactions she might take that i have to expect

[RafikGrais]

stop badgering her head would be a start
:rolleyes:

I saw that on a Video at Mongolia I think to distract her concentration about the idea of jumping :lol:

[Shaun Byrne]

I'm no Eagle expert but I'd certainly get a longer glove.

[RafikGrais]

I'm no Eagle expert but I'd certainly get a longer glove.

it's not too short but i'm looking for a pattern of a longer one and also for a hammer head Hood pattern

[MickeyDredd]

You have already posted elsewhere that your glove is too short, hence the eagle's talon catching your arm.

At least be consistent or nobody can advise you accordingly.

it's not too short but i'm looking for a pattern of a longer one and also for a hammer head Hood pattern

[SolidLeo]

Rafik what you doin for her overgrown BEAK ????

[Pearl]

I saw that on a Video at Mongolia I think to distract her concentration about the idea of jumping :lol: i see no reason to touch an eagles head unless your hooding it , if a bird this size bates from the glove it will only be a short one and few as the size of the eagle will soon tier her out when trying to get back on the glove , as ive said there are alot more people on here with masses of more experience than me , but these are just my thoughts and my opinion ,

the amount of things you can do to upset an eagle and cause pain is endless we also do not know her back ground (well i dont ) ,

[RafikGrais]

You have already posted elsewhere that your glove is too short, hence the eagle's talon catching your arm.

At least be consistent or nobody can advise you accordingly.

that is a new one but not for falconry used for working in Hot iron and so :confused:
the short one is profetional for falconry

[RafikGrais]

Rafik what you doin for her overgrown BEAK ????

i got her an Ox tail, like Gil told me

[RafikGrais]

You have already posted elsewhere that your glove is too short, hence the eagle's talon catching your arm.

At least be consistent or nobody can advise you accordingly.

Why do u have something in your heart towards me
What did I do makes you thinking all the time that I’m saying something not true or so.
If I have done anything, Then Sorry for what I don’t know

[Little Joe]

The bird has obviously been handled a lot before you got him - he is extremely calm on the fist and preens and rouses while being touched. He hardly even pays attention to you. All this is good.

As Mark said, there is no need for all the touching. Contrary to popular belief, birds of prey do NOT really enjoy being touched a lot and its definately bad for the feathers. So stop that - its about respect, not seeing what you can get away with.

He did look down when you touched his feet. Like I said before, be careful when food is involved. Maybe you can post a video of the bird eating on the fist - that should give us more clues as to his behaviour.

Jumping to the fist and flying short distances to you for food shouldnt be a problem, but do it on a line, not free. If you lose this eagle now his chances of survival is extremely slim.

[Tim Laycock]

Rafik,
I do not know you but I want to give you some advice.
Im going to put it as simply as I can.

Stop touching your eagle on her head and shoulders, She does not like this. You want to stroke her and I understand this but what you are doing is not enjoyed by her at all.
If you continue this she is going to hurt you very badly.

This leads me to your glove, She is not comfortable sitting on your arm as it does not give her a secure perch. Its too short.
For now you should wrap a loose piece of leather a few times around your arm before you put your glove on so she can get a secure grip of your arm.
She will then sit more easily and be more settled.

An ox tail will not fix your eagles beak, It has gone too far for this and needs to be filed into shape again.
I dont believe you have the skills for this and without a suitable glove you will be hurt badly if you try.

I wish I could help you more.
I honestly fear for your safety if you continue with this eagle but wish you the very best of luck.

[RafikGrais]

The bird has obviously been handled a lot before you got him - he is extremely calm on the fist and preens and rouses while being touched. He hardly even pays attention to you. All this is good.

As Mark said, there is no need for all the touching. Contrary to popular belief, birds of prey do NOT really enjoy being touched a lot and its definately bad for the feathers. So stop that - its about respect, not seeing what you can get away with.

He did look down when you touched his feet. Like I said before, be careful when food is involved. Maybe you can post a video of the bird eating on the fist - that should give us more clues as to his behaviour.

Jumping to the fist and flying short distances to you for food shouldnt be a problem, but do it on a line, not free. If you lose this eagle now his chances of survival is extremely slim.


Yes you are right she was at the hunter place for several months
So she got used for humans around that make it much easier
And about touching her I saw this on a video of (Bercutchi) at Mongolia
When the Eagle targets anything like higher place want to reach or a target to eat the change his attention by this move or touch
Then now if you tell me it’s not ok for her I will stop this
But I felt she loves it because she raises her wing a bit likes ticklish J Sorry for that if it is wrong
About the beak please if anyone can teach me how to do it, because no one can do it at all here and I have to fix it so soon, as your saying it might kill her
Sorry if my English is not to the point as it is not my mother tong.

[Pearl]

hi mate , not sure how good you read English but ive taken this from a site called the modern apprentice hope it gives you some idea on the coping of a beak ,

http://www.themodernapprentice.com/coping.htm

[RafikGrais]

Rafik,
I do not know you but I want to give you some advice.
Im going to put it as simply as I can.

Stop touching your eagle on her head and shoulders, She does not like this. You want to stroke her and I understand this but what you are doing is not enjoyed by her at all.
If you continue this she is going to hurt you very badly.

This leads me to your glove, She is not comfortable sitting on your arm as it does not give her a secure perch. Its too short.
For now you should wrap a loose piece of leather a few times around your arm before you put your glove on so she can get a secure grip of your arm.
She will then sit more easily and be more settled.

An ox tail will not fix your eagles beak, It has gone too far for this and needs to be filed into shape again.
I dont believe you have the skills for this and without a suitable glove you will be hurt badly if you try.

I wish I could help you more.
I honestly fear for your safety if you continue with this eagle but wish you the very best of luck.


That what I have been told about the Ox tail but please help in how I do it myself
I will get a new glove or I will make an extension to the good one I have
She is not comfortable on my glove because I shortened the jesses very much to avoid he foot
She does nothing when she is unhooded but just taking care, but with the hood she is extremely dangerous :box:

[RafikGrais]

hi mate , not sure how good you read English but ive taken this from a site called the modern apprentice hope it gives you some idea on the coping of a beak ,

http://www.themodernapprentice.com/coping.htm

i saw this site before but not full detailed and still afraid to do it , does it hurts her:oops: ?

[Pearl]

i saw this site before but not full detailed and still afraid to do it , does it hurts her:oops: ?make no mistake mate she will not like the idea , it will not hurt her but you need to to take a little of at a time on the upper mandable (beak) as if you go to far it will hit the wick and bleed ,

[RafikGrais]

make no mistake mate she will not like the idea , it will not hurt her but you need to to take a little of at a time on the upper mandable (beak) as if you go to far it will hit the wick and bleed ,

I read something now that I can put a big rock beside her where she can rub her beak and do this alone
Is that true?

[Pearl]

I read something now that I can put a big rock beside her where she can rub her beak and do this alone
Is that true?the beak on your bird is passed that stage , once the beak has been cut (coped) then it will help to keep it down as birds normaly rub there beaks to clean after they have eaten , is no one near you or from were you got it from that has done this before (cope)

[Little Joe]

Okay, it seems to me you will have to cope this bird without experienced help.

Here's what I would do if I was in your shoes. Instead of casting (holding) the bird and go through a complete cope as they demonstrate in Mark link, you can maybe just clip off that long tip of the beak.

You can do this in one quick snip with the bird hooded on your fist. Make sure you have control of the feet, because he will not think its funny, believe me! I would use a strong cutting tool like a pair of sidecutters used to cut electric wire. When the beak is closed, measure with the eye the tip of the top mandible that hangs over the lower mandible. Cut this overhanging section half the way down. That means you will still have a good centimetre of the overgrown tip hanging past the lower mandible (make sure you understand what I mean)

If it bleeds its not the end of the world, but get some disinfectant on there if it does bleed. The bleeding will stop soon anyway and its not a huge problem.

You will now have a straight cut beak that you can file to a point if you want, but you can also just leave it like that and make sure from then on he gets tough bony things to pull on and a bath and a rock to feak (cleaning the beak) on. This way he will over a few weeks hopefully shape his own beak into shape again, but you have to help with that initial cut.

Good luck and ask if you are not sure.

(BTW, oxtail is good, and anything like a rabbit leg, goose neck or backbone, etc. Something that will take a long time to eat and and is too hard to just bite through.)

[HawkEagle]

This bird looks like an imprint at fat weight. She was more likely pulled out from the nest than trapped.

[HawkMom]

I gave my eagle a beef bone knuckle that I had split by the butcher. The butcher cut it with a butcher's bandsaw so that the marrow shows. My eagle really liked it and it really helped with the overly long beak. I also feed turkey drumsticks bones. Another favorite and he loves the marrow in them. I crack the bone with a hammer. Having an uneven, lumpy rock helps too. The eagle will use it to clean her beak. If you have to cope yourself. Get a SHARP strong pair of sidecutters and trim her beak while hooded, standing on the glove. If you hit the quick, have some corn starch or flour handy, to put on the quick to stop the bleeding.

You can probably improvise a longer glove. My eagle glove is a regular sized falconry glove attached to a longer gauntlet with leather snaps. It works well.

[Tim Laycock]

have some corn starch or flour handy, to put on the quick to stop the bleeding.


The best thing for this is a bar of soap rubbed against the "Tip" of the beak as though you are gouging the soap with the beak, It plugs the hole nicely and stops the bleeding quicktime. 8-)

[Thistle]

Okay, it seems to me you will have to cope this bird without experienced help..

Here's what I would do if I was in your shoes. Instead of casting (holding) the bird and go through a complete cope as they demonstrate in Mark link, you can maybe just clip off that long tip of the beak.

You can do this in one quick snip with the bird hooded on your fist. Make sure you have control of the feet, because he will not think its funny, believe me!

Rafik. I'd recommend you bind the feet firmly FIRST if you're going to try this. Use an old towel and a belt/strap. Then get the wings under control. The bird will need to be restrained throughout by an assistant to avoid him hurting himself - or you. There is no option but to have someone cast the bird while you trim. Sitting the bird on your glove is not a safe way to proceed.

Sorry Rafik, but I can't help thinking you are not prepared to tackle this. Maybe a good idea to go & talk to the Bedouin - where you bought him first ? Find out if they have someone experienced. It might be better to pay them to help you, than do this yourself. As Little Joes rightly says, the bird is going to be VERY unhappy with you, and maybe will not forget too easily what you have done to him.

If you try this alone. well, all I can say is God help you !

[RafikGrais]

Okay, it seems to me you will have to cope this bird without experienced help.

Here's what I would do if I was in your shoes. Instead of casting (holding) the bird and go through a complete cope as they demonstrate in Mark link, you can maybe just clip off that long tip of the beak.

You can do this in one quick snip with the bird hooded on your fist. Make sure you have control of the feet, because he will not think its funny, believe me! I would use a strong cutting tool like a pair of sidecutters used to cut electric wire. When the beak is closed, measure with the eye the tip of the top mandible that hangs over the lower mandible. Cut this overhanging section half the way down. That means you will still have a good centimetre of the overgrown tip hanging past the lower mandible (make sure you understand what I mean)

If it bleeds its not the end of the world, but get some disinfectant on there if it does bleed. The bleeding will stop soon anyway and its not a huge problem.

You will now have a straight cut beak that you can file to a point if you want, but you can also just leave it like that and make sure from then on he gets tough bony things to pull on and a bath and a rock to feak (cleaning the beak) on. This way he will over a few weeks hopefully shape his own beak into shape again, but you have to help with that initial cut.

Good luck and ask if you are not sure.

(BTW, oxtail is good, and anything like a rabbit leg, goose neck or backbone, etc. Something that will take a long time to eat and and is too hard to just bite through.)

Thank you very much for your support
I will do my best to do it with carful, I don’t want to lose her trust I gained J
I tried to call the vet that comes to my kennel but he was off yesterday (Sunday) I will try again today, if he can help
If not I already called the seller and he said that he is experienced in doing this so I will take her to him, he is far from my place but I want risk to do it myself at least first time have to see it done
And don’t have words to say for your support and time
I will be visiting South Africa maybe soon, hope to see you there if that is near you and you have time, I will be at Cape Town, calk bay

[RafikGrais]

Rafik. I'd recommend you bind the feet firmly FIRST if you're going to try this. Use an old towel and a belt/strap. Then get the wings under control. The bird will need to be restrained throughout by an assistant to avoid him hurting himself - or you. There is no option but to have someone cast the bird while you trim. Sitting the bird on your glove is not a safe way to proceed.

Sorry Rafik, but I can't help thinking you are not prepared to tackle this. Maybe a good idea to go & talk to the Bedouin - where you bought him first ? Find out if they have someone experienced. It might be better to pay them to help you, than do this yourself. As Little Joes rightly says, the bird is going to be VERY unhappy with you, and maybe will not forget too easily what you have done to him.

If you try this alone. well, all I can say is God help you !

I have a shirt came with her if I put it on she want move at all
I want do it alone,
And thank you very much for your help

[RafikGrais]

This bird looks like an imprint at fat weight. She was more likely pulled out from the nest than trapped.

She is not fat at all; the seller puts her on a diet before he gave her to me
as he said she was 6.5 KG and when he gave her to me she is 4.9KG as he said that this is very important to tame her quickly I’m not sure about the numbers maybe i have a mistake, can’t remember but she lost weight

[RafikGrais]

What is the side effect of the over grown beak, everybody told me she will die but can I ask why?
Is it because want be able to eat or what

[Thistle]

I have a shirt came with her if I put it on she want move at all
I want do it alone,
And thank you very much for your help

Ok. The shirt you're talking about - is that like a casting jacket with straps ? If so, that may work quite well. Remember the feet are the main worry. Get those under control to begin with, then the casting jacket and you can proceed without too much danger to yourself.

Do not overdo it on the beak ok ? Not too much. Take your time. Slowly slowly. Reassure the bird. Try to be calm and gentle. Just take the tip off and then file off any rough edges gently to shape. Good luck !

[Thistle]

She is not fat at all; the seller puts her on a diet before he gave her to me
as he said she was 6.5 KG and when he gave her to me she is 4.9KG as he said that this is very important to tame her quickly I’m not sure about the numbers maybe i have a mistake, can’t remember but she lost weight

'Fat weight' in falconry refers to a bird being a little heavy for hunting purposes. Remember the leaner the bird, the more anxious he will be about food. If you are starving hungry you will be kind of possessive around food huh ? The bird will behave the same way. If he's really hungry (and light of weight) then he may be more aggressive, show more mantling behaviour etc.

[RafikGrais]

yes i do undrestand this point and that is a photo forr her

[Thistle]

What is the side effect of the over grown beak, everybody told me she will die but can I ask why?
Is it because want be able to eat or what

I don't think it likely that the bird's overgrown beak will prevent him from eating in the short term. No Rafik, he will not die from starvation just yet as some people have been suggesting. They are right though - the beak does need trimming. As it is, it is too long, and will eventually become uncomfortable for your bird.

It is not just a cosmetic (appearance) thing - eventually if allowed to grow much further, the curved (upper mandible) part of the beak may interfere with the bottom half. Not good for the bird at all.

So. You can't really afford to put this off for too long I'm afraid. It will not be an easy exercise for either of you. Allow the bird time alone to de-stress for a day and a night to regain his composure afterwards.

Your next approach, chuck some food in, and leave him again. That will be a slightly more positive experience for him over the last time you saw him. Take your time. It may take a day or so for him to regain some trust in you. Eagles are moody critters when they've been upset :roll:

[RafikGrais]

I don't think it likely that the bird's overgrown beak will prevent him from eating in the short term. No Rafik, he will not die from starvation just yet as some people have been suggesting. They are right though - the beak does need trimming. As it is, it is too long, and will eventually become uncomfortable for your bird.

It is not just a cosmetic (appearance) thing - eventually if allowed to grow much further, the curved (upper mandible) part of the beak may interfere with the bottom half. Not good for the bird at all.

So. You can't really afford to put this off for too long I'm afraid. It will not be an easy exercise for either of you. Allow the bird time alone to de-stress for a day and a night to regain his composure afterwards.

Your next approach, chuck some food in, and leave him again. That will be a slightly more positive experience for him over the last time you saw him. Take your time. It may take a day or so for him to regain some trust in you. Eagles are moody critters when they've been upset :roll:


Thank you, I understand now

[Thistle]

She is not fat at all; the seller puts her on a diet before he gave her to me
as he said she was 6.5 KG and when he gave her to me she is 4.9KG as he said that this is very important to tame her quickly I’m not sure about the numbers maybe i have a mistake, can’t remember but she lost weight

Just a little more about weight management. Of all the birds of prey, with an eagle I think you need to be particularly careful about weight. If you have the bird too light, he will always be anxious to fill his stomach. This will make him aggressive, moody and grumpy. At the stage you are at Rafik, I would recommend you keep the bird at a higher weight - in other words feed regularly and do not let him get over-hungry. This will hopefully help to keep him happy.

It really is a balancing act. You need him to be a little hungry (light) to get him to respond to you in the field, but you don't want to go too far because he may attack you. The mantling response (covering their kill with their wings) in eagles is pretty standard. They do it frequently around food. More so when the 'kill' is meaningful to them. They do this to protect their food/kill from other eagles - or anyone they think might be a threat or steal their food from them. It can also be taken as a warning/threat - he might be telling you to back off. Its something you have to understand. Sometimes the mantling is all bluff, and (once you know your bird really well) you may be permitted to approach him on the kill. Its called 'making in' in falconry language. Anyway. I don't think you are anywhere near that stage just yet - so do not even think about it - unless you want to get hurt that is !

The bird will always let you know how he feels. You just got to learn to read & understand the body language. You will need to begin to think like an eagle does. It will take you a while. Suffice to say - this is why eagles are not for novices. But you've heard me say this already so I won't say it again.. The biggest risk in handling an eagle is when he's really hungry.

When the bird is light you'll hear him - he'll tell you himself.

[RafikGrais]

Just a little more about weight management. Of all the birds of prey, with an eagle I think you need to be particularly careful about weight. If you have the bird too light, he will always be anxious to fill his stomach. This will make him aggressive, moody and grumpy. At the stage you are at Rafik, I would recommend you keep the bird at a higher weight - in other words feed regularly and do not let him get over-hungry. This will hopefully help to keep him happy.

It really is a balancing act. You need him to be a little hungry (light) to get him to respond to you in the field, but you don't want to go too far because he may attack you. The mantling response (covering their kill with their wings) in eagles is pretty standard. They do it frequently around food. More so when the 'kill' is meaningful to them. They do this to protect their food/kill from other eagles - or anyone they think might be a threat or steal their food from them. It can also be taken as a warning/threat - he might be telling you to back off. Its something you have to understand. Sometimes the mantling is all bluff, and (once you know your bird really well) you may be permitted to approach him on the kill. Its called 'making in' in falconry language. Anyway. I don't think you are anywhere near that stage just yet - so do not even think about it - unless you want to get hurt that is !

The bird will always let you know how he feels. You just got to learn to read & understand the body language. You will need to begin to think like an eagle does. It will take you a while. Suffice to say - this is why eagles are not for novices. But you've heard me say this already so I won't say it again.. The biggest risk in handling an eagle is when he's really hungry.

When the bird is light you'll hear him - he'll tell you himself.


Since day one I don’t feed her on the stand she eats on the glove I give her a rabbit leg she holds it , then I prepare some pieces of meat beside me when she is eating the leg or a piece of chicken
I show her the meat in my hand she starts looking to me, I feel like she is asking me to take the it so I give it to her gently in her beak, after that her full attention comes to my hand and looking for the food I have in my hand, and forgetting the other one in her talons
And when she is eating from my hand sometimes she drops the food, I really can feel that she is asking me to pick it up for her

I tried a crazy thing but just need to know how is she thinking and how intelligent she is, I put a very small piece of meat on the tip of my finger and offered it to her , that crazy thing I have done I wanted to know if she can recognize my finger from the food
First she tried to take it by the tip of her beak then she couldn’t so she slides a bit left and right to take it with the side of the beak
I repeated this many times, I feel like she is so careful not to harm me, that is what I can feel but correct me if I’m wrong
Thanks very much

[Thistle]

Nothing much wrong with your relationship with the bird Rafik. (called 'bond' in falconry language). Your description of feed time sounds good. She's clearly used to being fed the way you're doing it by previous people.

Sounds like the bird trusts you at the moment. You have his/her confidence and trust, and yes - they can be very gentle can't they ? (remember its when they want to be). But I think you know already, the power of those feet ? Just keep in mind their apparent gentleness with you can change in an instant - it all depends on weight. Always remember, be respectful to the bird. Protect yourself, take no stupid risks - and you will minimise the opportunity of your bird hurting you. They are very intelligent - and will show you apparent 'affection'. I don't mean you get the same sort of affection as you might from your domestic dog or cat here ! Anyway - don't be too lulled into a false sense of friendship with your bird. He/she will place trust and faith into you, but they will remember too when you do something she/he doesn't like. She will forgive you eventually, but it can take a day or so.

It would be very worthwhile you making a special effort to weight her/him accurately today - and before you cope the beak - so you have a benchmark for the future. Then you know in the future if she's light relative to the weight you have today. If s/he becomes light and grumpy, or behaviour changes next week or next month - then you can feed up until to get back to the former weight. You should see her behaviour return to what it is today.

[RafikGrais]

Nothing much wrong with your relationship with the bird Rafik. (called 'bond' in falconry language). Your description of feed time sounds good. She's clearly used to being fed the way you're doing it by previous people.

Sounds like the bird trusts you at the moment. You have his/her confidence and trust, and yes - they can be very gentle can't they ? (remember its when they want to be). But I think you know already, the power of those feet ? Just keep in mind their apparent gentleness with you can change in an instant - it all depends on weight. Always remember, be respectful to the bird. Protect yourself, take no stupid risks - and you will minimise the opportunity of your bird hurting you. They are very intelligent - and will show you apparent 'affection'. I don't mean you get the same sort of affection as you might from your domestic dog or cat here ! Anyway - don't be too lulled into a false sense of friendship with your bird. He/she will place trust and faith into you, but they will remember too when you do something she/he doesn't like. She will forgive you eventually, but it can take a day or so.

It would be very worthwhile you making a special effort to weight her/him accurately today - and before you cope the beak - so you have a benchmark for the future. Then you know in the future if she's light relative to the weight you have today. If s/he becomes light and grumpy, or behaviour changes next week or next month - then you can feed up until to get back to the former weight. You should see her behaviour return to what it is today.


Yes I do know the power of the feet because when she is hooded sometimes she strikes the stand when she hears a noise near her foot
It is extremely dangerous
I risk with the beak never with the talons lol J
I need one more Question how long can the bird be hooded ?

[Thistle]

I need one more Question how long can the bird be hooded ?

How long did you have in mind ?

If you're thinking for the beak trim, well I wouldn't imagine you're going to take all that long over it, huh ?

Myself, I don't tend to use a hood very much really. I will use one if we're out & there are lots of people or distractions about, just to keep the bird calm, but I've never used one for an extended period of time. Tops - twenty minutes half hour perhaps. Other people here might have a different take on this, but I think allowing the bird to see what's going on around him can help in making him more manageable & bombproof.

I don't use a hood or a box when we're travelling in the truck. My friend perches quite contentedly on the passenger seatback (yes, he is tethered but no he does not hop about. Always seems interested in whatever is around him).

Hood is particularly useful if you are likely to encounter other critters on your travels, or you want him to stay settled of course when people, horses, traffic etc are about - of course maybe better to hood him/her then. All depends on where you are I guess. But personally I wouldn't leave any bird hooded for too long.

[Turumti]

Rafik,

Since you do not have much experience of eagles, and much less of coping, I would strongly advise you from attempting coping her beak yourself. It could be dangerous for you and harmful for her too.

Rather what I would advise you is to give her a big earthern ware bowl full of water, in which she can bathe and on the sides of which she can feak (rub her beak after feeding).

I would also reccomend you stay away from giving her her beef, buffalo, horse and camel flesh, as all these meats are every high in uric acid content, and will give her gout, this causing her knees and ankles to swell up. You can feed her meat from a young lamb, and try to get some leg bones with a little meat on them, from the butcher, for her to pull on. Even better would be if you could go out and shoot a hare or two for her, every week. (Use a rifle for this job, shoot them in the head or then catch them in a net). Feed her a varied natural diet, and along with love and affection treat her with respect, too.

Regards,

Salman

[RafikGrais]

How long did you have in mind ?

If you're thinking for the beak trim, well I wouldn't imagine you're going to take all that long over it, huh ?

Myself, I don't tend to use a hood very much really. I will use one if we're out & there are lots of people or distractions about, just to keep the bird calm, but I've never used one for an extended period of time. Tops - twenty minutes half hour perhaps. Other people here might have a different take on this, but I think allowing the bird to see what's going on around him can help in making him more manageable & bombproof.

I don't use a hood or a box when we're travelling in the truck. My friend perches quite contentedly on the passenger seatback (yes, he is tethered but no he does not hop about. Always seems interested in whatever is around him).

Hood is particularly useful if you are likely to encounter other critters on your travels, or you want him to stay settled of course when people, horses, traffic etc are about - of course maybe better to hood him/her then. All depends on where you are I guess. But personally I wouldn't leave any bird hooded for too long.


Hmm I think I’m doing something wrong now

I keep her with the hood all the time I only remove it when she is on the Glove and then hooded before back to the stand

That is 3-4 hours a day and 20 hours with the hood

I was told that before, but now looks bad idea
What do you think?

[Thistle]

Hmm I think I’m doing something wrong now

I keep her with the hood all the time I only remove it when she is on the Glove and then hooded before back to the stand

That is 3-4 hours a day and 20 hours with the hood

I was told that before, but now looks bad idea
What do you think?

Hmmm. You are right Rafik. The way you describe - this is not good practice at all.

The bird must have some freedom, space to stretch her wings & a place of her own to find peace & quiet - time to herself in her own accomodation. It has to be a reasonable size too.

I freeloft always. Meaning I do not tether in the aviary. I have given over a large outbuilding for this use. It already has rafters & crossbeams for high perches. The building is 35' long x 25'. There is also an outside aviary, with branches so he can hop about. Better - so the bird can come & go outside at will.

Rafik, to be keeping an eagle you must ensure you have enough space for your bird. The right accomodation is very important for an eagle.

You cannot, no - I mean you really MUST not - keep him hooded all the time.

[Thistle]

MODERATORS. Help needed here - is there any means of reporting this clear case of abuse to the Egyptian Authorities. Can we locate Rafik by means of his IP address ???

Why ? #1. By his own admission he's holding a CITES listed golden eagle illegally & presumably without paperwork.

#2. He apparently knows nothing about how to keep such a bird.

#3. Through ignorance or design - he is abusing the animal by keeping him hooded for upto 20 hours per day.

#4. I do believe the thread posted is genuine, and not just some wind up.

I hope you can help. I am concerned for the bird's welfare. Richard.

[SolidLeo]

[COLOR=red]MODERATORS. Help needed here - is there any means of reporting this clear case of abuse to the Egyptian Authorities. Can we locate Rafik by means of his IP address ???



NOT agree with YOU m8, In my opinion its not fair to do this **** with a guy who came here to get some help from us & more over it is a Falconry Forum ....!!!!

[Sara.B]

hiya.
the beak needs 2 be coped.
bt it is a beatuiful bird.

[SolidLeo]

hiya.
the beak needs 2 be coped.
bt it is a beatuiful bird.

Agree with u Sara, bird needs coping badly ....!!!!

[RafikGrais]

I will never be agnest the world if what I'm doing is wrong

So please advise what do to keep the bird in a good helth
If someone or any orgnization can come and take her that will be ok

And if you can guide me to take care of her and keep her, also will be better for me

And if relise is the solution please tell me how to do it and when

My love to animals will never harm them with my LOVE

Thanks and please advice

[Millet]

Ive just read through this thread and i find it unbelievable..:rolleyes:.. im sure golden eagles are still dangerous bird's in the hand's of a experienced falconer but to have one as a first bird as it seem's is pure suicidal..
Not that it make's much difference but i 100% agree with Thistle on his last post..
Millet

[RafikGrais]

Ive just read through this thread and i find it unbelievable..:rolleyes:.. im sure golden eagles are still dangerous bird's in the hand's of a experienced falconer but to have one as a first bird as it seem's is pure suicidal..
Not that it make's much difference but i 100% agree with Thistle on his last post..
Millet

It's not the first bird

[Thistle]

I will never be agnest the world if what I'm doing is wrong

So please advise what do to keep the bird in a good helth
If someone or any orgnization can come and take her that will be ok

And if you can guide me to take care of her and keep her, also will be better for me

And if relise is the solution please tell me how to do it and when

My love to animals will never harm them with my LOVE

Thanks and please advice

Rafik, please believe me. Nobody, least of all myself really wants to see you punished. On the contrary, I understand & empathise with your position. You came here for help bless you. And Yes, I recognise you have a great affection & touching love of your bird, and of the other birds you may have kept in the past. No one doubts that at all my friend.

And yes, I do think for what its worth - you do have the makings of a good falconer. But you're not ready for a golden just yet my friend. I hear you are willing to listen, which is good, and your openness and honesty is refreshing. BUT - this partticular bird is a very special animal, do you understand what I mean ? I can't really see how you realistically can keep him - do you understand me ?

A golden eagle really is endangered & considered a vulnerable species worldwide, so really only people who are very experienced, and that have the right sort of facilities should be keeping them. In many countries, yours included keeping a golden is not permitted at all. They certainly cannot ever be kept in your front room, or cooped up in a small shed in your back yard. They need space. You need to learn the falconry skills too, before you can really do justice to an animal like this. You just cannot keep him hooded for 20 hours each day. I was horrified to hear you had been told to do this.

You see Rafik, trouble is - this is a CITES listed animal. Do you understand what that means ? It means the world's wildlife organisations place very serious legal restrictions on the commercial sale/import/export licences etc of these birds because they are considered vulnerable populations in the wild. If you knowingly break the law, you may be committing an imprisonable offence.

And here you are, ill equipped, and by your own admission keeping him illegally. You see, aside of the legality thing (which some people on this forum would turn a blind eye to) the real problem is you are in some difficulty because you do not know how to keep him, and no one here can provide the level of support you will require.

As I have said, this is a dangerous situation for you, everyone around you - but most serious of all is the fact this valuable & endangered bird appears to be suffering abuse in your hands. Not intentionally, I grant you - but knowingly continuing with this will not help things. The longer you leave it the higher the risk of getting caught.

I understand things may be very different in your country, but I am involved in wildlife protection & conservation here in my country myself so having thought carefully about it, I had to question my own involvement. So, I have to speak to you frankly Rafik. How could you expect me not to ask you do the right thing ? For me not to do so - would be not only to condone what I have heard on your thread, (and remember I have participated in answering some of your questions) but in doing nothing I would actually have been complicit in aiding you too.

Now Rafik - listen carefully. My honest advice to you, is go find some solution without further delay and I think everything will be ok.

It may be a good idea to go to a bird santuary. If you donate him of your own free will because you wanted the best for him, then no one can criticise you. You could tell them you bought him from bad conditions to rescue him ? He will forever remain yours then when you go to visit him. Who knows, they may even be able to pair him with a mate. Wouldn't that be something ?

I am certain they will help you with your problem. There are wildlife sanctuaries organisations that can help in Egypt. Better you go and talk to them yourself. Remember if the authorities - or God forbid, the police find you in possession of your beautiful bird, and they see you are ill equipped, unknowledgeable, and holding him in unsatisfactory conditions - well, I think you can imagine - they will seek to prosecute without hesitation.

If you are prepared to do this with a sanctuary, and require support and a witness when you talk to the wildlife people I will be prepared to help.

There will also incidently - be a great many people on this forum who will join me, in applauding you for your courage & humility in admitting that you have made a genuine mistake.

Good luck. PM me if you need me.

richard.

[Millet]

It's not the first bird

My mistake and i appoligise but the way i read your post's seemed like it to me..good luck in whatever route you choose to take with your bird..;)..
Millet

[Gil]

hi rafik only now did i see your new thread. it looks your bond with the eagle really improved but like joe said, touching his feathers is not good although tempting. to your question, a long beak thats not coped is more likely to crack, it seems especially when you give it tirings (ox tails etc) i actually didnt know that but someone pointed that out on your other thread but once the beak is coped tirings will keep it shaped nicely aswell as a rock for preening as been said already.
i also suggest you keep him at fat weight rather than risk him starving to death. you should know by feeling his chest bone. there is a method called "washed meat" but i dont think i need to get into that and if i do its better someone experienced shed light on this.
if you can pass him to some organization without you getting prosecuted i think it would be best for the bird and maybe you could start with something easier. to be honest thistle im not sure about the government of egypt that it would actually give a damn. but that eagle is endangered and i know of a project in israel that focuses on vultures but also on any other endangered raptors that their numbers are diminishing(because of trappers like the ones you bought your eagle from and illegal shooting). this project has proven to be successful and today the vulture population in israel is stable and even rising.
if you need help regarding possible organizations especially in israel as ive already told you they would gladly help you and your golden eagle, contact me
i hope you make the right decision keep us informed. i can see you do have a thing with animals but you got to understand that some things are just too much (atleast to start from at the beginning but may be of thought later)

[Barry]

Just a few thoughts. I'm not commenting on legalities, suitability etc, just what you are doing wrong:

Do not hold the bird at an intermediate weight. This is the range where Golden Eagles are dangerous.

Do not habitually feed on the fist during manning/training. It will bring problems later in the field.

Never ever present food from a finger or hand. You'll pay for that mistake later.

Stop stroking it!

Get the beak coped - not later, get it organised and done now.

Do not hood for long periods, the bird is calm and beyond the need for any extended periods in the hood.

Take a long session of thoughtfully sourced advice from an experienced established eagle falconer.

Good luck
Barry

[Fielde243]

top advice barry, good luck with whatever you proceed to do rafik, atb Ed

[HawkEagle]

She is not fat at all; the seller puts her on a diet before he gave her to me
as he said she was 6.5 KG and when he gave her to me she is 4.9KG as he said that this is very important to tame her quickly I’m not sure about the numbers maybe i have a mistake, can’t remember but she lost weight

This bird is 6.5 kgs or over 14 lbs fat. I think the guy was pulling you legs or his scale needs replacing.

[Little Joe]

Do not habitually feed on the fist during manning/training. It will bring problems later in the field.


Hi Barry,

Your post exuded experience and knowledge.

Can you elaborate on the point above if you have the time please.

Thanks,
Jannes

[Barry]

First, I must be clear this is not a method or discovery made by me. Simply one shown to me a few years ago which I adopted after over a decade of flying eagles. It transformed my eagles very quickly. With a new eagle, they prevent any later aggression or difficulty. My eagles are all parent reared. This method was developed for aggression prevention in imprints, but works amazingly well on parent reared birds too.

Feeding on the fist with a Golden Eagle simply has the eagle focus on the fist as a food source. With other species less developed of higher brain processes, this is a good thing, but with an eagle, it makes the fist something worth 'hunting' later on. Worse still, it makes the eagle defensive of the fist. It becomes territory or a prey item worth protecting. This manifests itself through mantling if you're lucky, or aggression to your hand as you reach for jesses, or a grabbed face if you're not.
Feed from a pot or dish - a variety of them each day, held high under the birds chin while you securely hold short jesses. Two things are achieved. 1/ The eagle does not see the fist as a food source so should not hunt, defend, or mantle on the fist.
2/ You prevent the eagles consideration of using it's feet to eat when on the fist. The food is cut into small easily swallowed pieces in the pot. As everything can be swallowed whole, the bird does not consider lifting a foot to hold food. Separating the birds thoughts of using it's feet when feeding on the fist goes even further to minimise aggression toward the falconer and the gloved hand.
The end result - when you recall to the fist in the field - if you have to, you do so to a tiny food item - a single bite, and the eagle does not think of being aggressive or mean. She simply lands, takes the tid-bit and settles.

As I said, not my developed method, but one which has amazed me and made my eagle falconry even more relaxing.
Barry

[Little Joe]

First, I must be clear this is not a method or discovery made by me. Simply one shown to me a few years ago which I adopted after over a decade of flying eagles. It transformed my eagles very quickly. With a new eagle, they prevent any later aggression or difficulty. My eagles are all parent reared. This method was developed for aggression prevention in imprints, but works amazingly well on parent reared birds too.

Feeding on the fist with a Golden Eagle simply has the eagle focus on the fist as a food source. With other species less developed of higher brain processes, this is a good thing, but with an eagle, it makes the fist something worth 'hunting' later on. Worse still, it makes the eagle defensive of the fist. It becomes territory or a prey item worth protecting. This manifests itself through mantling if you're lucky, or aggression to your hand as you reach for jesses, or a grabbed face if you're not.
Feed from a pot or dish - a variety of them each day, held high under the birds chin while you securely hold short jesses. Two things are achieved. 1/ The eagle does not see the fist as a food source so should not hunt, defend, or mantle on the fist.
2/ You prevent the eagles consideration of using it's feet to eat when on the fist. The food is cut into small easily swallowed pieces in the pot. As everything can be swallowed whole, the bird does not consider lifting a foot to hold food. Separating the birds thoughts of using it's feet when feeding on the fist goes even further to minimise aggression toward the falconer and the gloved hand.
The end result - when you recall to the fist in the field - if you have to, you do so to a tiny food item - a single bite, and the eagle does not think of being aggressive or mean. She simply lands, takes the tid-bit and settles.

As I said, not my developed method, but one which has amazed me and made my eagle falconry even more relaxing.
Barry

Makes fantastic sense to me Barry, thanks for that.

[RafikGrais]

First, I must be clear this is not a method or discovery made by me. Simply one shown to me a few years ago which I adopted after over a decade of flying eagles. It transformed my eagles very quickly. With a new eagle, they prevent any later aggression or difficulty. My eagles are all parent reared. This method was developed for aggression prevention in imprints, but works amazingly well on parent reared birds too.

Feeding on the fist with a Golden Eagle simply has the eagle focus on the fist as a food source. With other species less developed of higher brain processes, this is a good thing, but with an eagle, it makes the fist something worth 'hunting' later on. Worse still, it makes the eagle defensive of the fist. It becomes territory or a prey item worth protecting. This manifests itself through mantling if you're lucky, or aggression to your hand as you reach for jesses, or a grabbed face if you're not.
Feed from a pot or dish - a variety of them each day, held high under the birds chin while you securely hold short jesses. Two things are achieved. 1/ The eagle does not see the fist as a food source so should not hunt, defend, or mantle on the fist.
2/ You prevent the eagles consideration of using it's feet to eat when on the fist. The food is cut into small easily swallowed pieces in the pot. As everything can be swallowed whole, the bird does not consider lifting a foot to hold food. Separating the birds thoughts of using it's feet when feeding on the fist goes even further to minimise aggression toward the falconer and the gloved hand.
The end result - when you recall to the fist in the field - if you have to, you do so to a tiny food item - a single bite, and the eagle does not think of being aggressive or mean. She simply lands, takes the tid-bit and settles.

As I said, not my developed method, but one which has amazed me and made my eagle falconry even more relaxing.
Barry

Thank you very much and you gave me very good guiding lines if I’m going to keep her

[RafikGrais]

Ok I agree that your more professional than me 1000 time but through trial I’m 100% sure that I can change her behavior by touching her on the head and chest
So me and my friend made a test (he is 10 years experience)
I tried not to touch her for 90 minutes she jumped from the glove 13 times
After that I started touching her when I see in her eyes that she will jump for another 90 minutes she didn’t jump at all

I understand that all of you have more knowledge and experience than me

But what about what I can see with my eyes that touching makes her calmer
Please explain and correct me if I’m wrong