green cast's and mutes...deja vu?

[Afshimo]

Hiya,

I'm getting worried about Shiro, his cast's are green tinged and mutes are abit green also, he doesnt seem to be eating all his food also. Is this what happened to Afra? Sour crop? Should I worry? I'm going to try and make an appointment with the vets.

He has been on beef mainly so far, with no casting. He had a full chick tue cus I thought he might need his crop cleaning out?

Thx if anyone can help me!

Hannah

[Sprout]

Be careful with beef, it is not balanced. Using washed beef for a few days to lower condition is ok but still intermittently feed whole chicks etc. Casting is not important. Green mutes/casting is from bile pigment. What condition is he in now, fat or thin? If condition is getting towards flying weight I'd worry more about the poor appetite

[Red Sheridan]

Well I strongly disagree with the statement that casting is not important. It most certainly is important although not essential in every meal.

Regards,
Red

[CastleFalconry]

Give him something full of fur and bone (rat/rabbit etc), I believe casting material is very important, particularly if he's not been given any in a while.

If in doubt though, always er on the side of caution and get to the vets.

Keep us posted.

[SecretSquirrel]

why has he only been fed on beef? I'd get some decent food into him for a while and the mutes/casts should clear up and be bile free. if his appetite is failing, tempt him with some nutritious food, if that still doesnt work. . I'd get that appointment.

[OhMyGod]

The bird is in training and has been fed on beef only.

I do not see the problem hear, it is not a bloody musket. It is a 2lb gyr/saker that has had plenty of bone and whole carcass meals all the time until now. As sprout has said it is not balanced. But this should not cause the bird to lose his appetite!!!

The bird has had beef only for a week or so. How do you compare this to people who use supplemented beef only 6 days a week without trouble. I know people who have fed beef for weeks and weeks without castings and their birds do not lose appetite or have metallic green bile in the mutes.

squirrel

what do you mean tempt him with some nutritious food, what kind of advice is this? are you saying he does not want to eat beef, but would eat ok with nutritios food? he has had his weight reduced for training and any bird I have ever trained would eat any meat you offer it, nutritious, washed and squeezed beef, or whatever.

making out she is at fault for feeding beef with no castings is unfair as it does not make any bird I've ever seen go off its food. He has only been having small amounts.

Neither would I personally feed a bird of this species rat or rabbit.

for taming the bird down I too may feed beef with no casting. or chick with no casting. I like to feed meals with no casting for a new bird as this way it will never have to cast a pellet before eating, this way I can walk past every hour or two giving small tidbits of beef getting the bird to appreciate my appearance and tame down much quicker with good experiences of me by having small bits every time it sees me throughout the day and first thing in the morning when the hood comes off for the first time I want it to have a small bit then as well. I don't want it to be unhungry cos of a poxy bit of fur or feather that is no good for anything anyway!!

It's not for ever and a week or two with no castings is not really an issue as long as it is getting bones every now and then, like chick.

[OutFlying]

What weight is he now Hannah ? How many times a day are you feeding him and how much daily ? As Sprout and OMG have stated, your concern should be on the lost of appetite. Is his weight stable and does he look bright and alert ?

Sour crop in a healthy falcon during weight reduction and manning shouldn't occur if fed correctly, If you have a problem then it is most likely not sour crop but something else.

Best of luck OF.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

I picked up a bird from Falcon mews a while ago and its first cast was Bright green and looked very worrying.

It looked like it had eaten Kermit the Frog.

The reason for the cast was because the bird had been treated with medicine to safeguard against some disease.( cant remember what it was called at present) This casting only occurred once and was the normal ( depending on food) colour after that.

I have used washed beef on this bird without detrimental effect.

[Tim Laycock]

BOP do not catch cows!
Dont feed em beef, Its not rocket science is it! :lol:

[Mary Quite Contrary]

BOP do not catch cows!
Dont feed em beef, Its not rocket science is it! :lol:


Or baby chickens for that matter :D

[Tim Laycock]

Hardly similar though is it :rolleyes: :lol:

[Mr_Colin]

BOP do not catch cows!
Dont feed em beef, Its not rocket science is it! :lol:

Willow chased down some cows the same week she was entered for the first time last season. Made for a comical flight but she soon realised they were too big. :oops:

[Tim Laycock]

:shock:

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Hardly similar though is it :rolleyes: :lol:


This is a bit of a weird one as i see what you mean but what i find amusing is why and who decided to feed beef instead of lamb or pork.

The fat content is similar on each animal. Why Beef?

Pork meat is more susceptible to worm infection.

Any ideas!

[Tim Laycock]

Not a clue CPC.
I would be very interested to know why this is though!

[OhMyGod]

pork will go straight through them with little weight gain. I would never feed any bird pork.

[Tim Laycock]

I would not feed my charge on swine any more than I would give her feral pigeon!

[OhMyGod]

I understand what you are saying about beef. But in some circumstances it may seem acceptable. I would not feed any of your birds beef either, being accipiters I would feed bone everyday. But in the first week of training a large falcon or hh or red it can be of use as it has no casting and is good on the fist and good for tid bits.

I very much doubt that the problem with shiro is down to feeding beef. She has already had one of her birds die due to illness which is probably not her fault. She seems to think it was sour crop but could it have been frounce? By the sounds of her new birds problems I am really concerned about the fact that it could be as the tell tail signs are there.

I hope they are both ok.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

pork will go straight through them with little weight gain. I would never feed any bird pork.


Pork has the same values as chicken apart form the protein amount.

Although this depends on the body part of the pig.

Rabbit meat is red meat values at the front and white meat values at the back.

:?: :?: :?:

[Afshimo]

Thanks very much, i am sorry i could get on earlier to read the post's - i appologise!

I was as OMG said, getting him to look forward to me coming, and to help his hooding as he was starting to pull away (has ceased!)

OF - He seems to have stopped his coloured cast's, his weight is stable. He looks fine attitude wise eg hates the washing line!

I am guessing that it was the change of diet that upset him, from mainly beef and a couple chick legs too 2 whole chicks didnt do his sytem any good. His body seems to have realised and he looks to have a good appitite on him (bobbing his head as the chicks came out the freezer) I have some wood pigeon which has been kept in the freezer for 2 months, so I will strip that and prepare it tomorrow. I was worried that I'll do it wrong so HF is helping me on Sat if he remembers. We have some rat, quail and pheasant on the way once we get the new freezer installed.

Thanks for all the reply's -really appreciated!

Hannah

[Tim Laycock]

Glad its coming right for you and yours Hannah :D

[OhMyGod]

I wouldn't be feeding pigeon or any high quality food at this time. I'm sure you know what you are doing hannah but I personally would be feeding something that can be washed a bit. Like if you defrost the chicks in a bowl of water, gut them and really wash them out a bit you can probably feed 3 times the amount of food as if you fed pigeon or quail.

At this stage in training I prefer to give lots of food so he really thinks you are giving him a good amount of food rather than a measly bit of pigeon or quail. Making him see you as a good thing, somone who feeds him up loads of food not someone who is starving him.

Just the way I do it.

Glad everything is ok Hannah, keep us up to date with your progress.

[SecretSquirrel]

no OMG! as usual this forum jumps at posts without thinking! i didnt say its wrong to feed a raptor beef! I think its good for tirings, but was simply asking for info! asking why it had only been fed on beef. . . ergo, what was the reason, was it in training? tempting with more nutritious food, well yes, if a bird of mine was failing an appetite and had bile in its mutes, id want to get it fed, sod the training! get something into the bird that has nutritional value for a time to see any improvement and not washed beef. but go ahead, feed the birdies beef all you wish, im sure they'll fly great after 6 months. :roll:

[OhMyGod]

what are you going on about? 6 months? what? beef for tirings? er?

[Tim Laycock]

no OMG! as usual this forum jumps at posts without thinking!

Dont talk A load of toss!

[SecretSquirrel]

typical response from Bb I'd expect nothing more. :roll:

[OutFlying]

typical response from Bb I'd expect nothing more. :roll:

As I read your original post, I think OMG reply was a fair reply and I'd reply with a similar post. Maybe yours was incorrectly worded but I couldn't understand why a falcon that had no appetite would know to eat something with more nutritional value if it had no appetite ?

[Tim Laycock]

One of my "Off the cuff" remarks regarding posting a load of *****!

You no doubt expected nothing more because you understood that you had infact posted........A load of *****! :finga:

[Afshimo]

Thanks OMG - I'm still learning and glad to take on bord any advise! Same goes for the rest of u lol!!!! :)

[Sprout]

I agree complete;y with OMG and BB
Well I strongly disagree with the statement that casting is not important. It most certainly is important although not essential in every meal.
You what?? So you recommend giving casting to a bird with suspected sour crop!!!!!!!!!?????????? NOOOOOOOOOOO

[SecretSquirrel]

its not hard to tell why some of the better falconers have left.
i have absolutely no time for the likes of , Bb, OF, K, OMG and the rest of the cronies who post on here in a disrespectful manner. and I dont care about saying so , its pure rudeness and its not suprising the fourm here is getting a bad rep. from now on if i ever come on here again its just to look at and learn from the 5 or so posters who really know what they are talking about. this forum seems to thrive on the next arguement and swearing at others and poking fun at any newbie wanting to learn, its bad for the sport and you look like idiots.

[Tim Laycock]

Excuse me but you know next to nothing!
Im absolutely p1ssing my pants here :lol: :lol: :lol:
We are all members of the same list you silly tart :wink: The new list! You know the invitation only list for "True Falconers"
The list where we all know that its not here where it all goes down but in the field.
I, was a member at the inception of this new list, Perhaps one day you will get an invite.
I doubt it though :lol:
Especially if you continue to post unintelligible ***** :shock: :roll: lmao

I have to try very hard to look this stupid. Perhaps I should take a leaf out of your book as you appear to excell in this particular discipline.

Warm regards and thanks for the laugh

Blackbird :wink:

[Tim Laycock]

Hannah,
I am realy sorry to have done this to your thread :oops:

SS, If you want to continue this by PM, feel free :wink:

[OutFlying]

typical response from Bb I'd expect nothing more. :roll:

As I read your original post, I think OMG reply was a fair reply and I'd reply with a similar post. Maybe yours was incorrectly worded but I couldn't understand why a falcon that had no appetite would know to eat something with more nutritional value if it had no appetite ?

Please SS, tell me where I was rude in the above reply. I am puzzled by your original post and replies.

Yours rude Jim :wink:

[Tim Laycock]

Wash your mouth out with soap you dirty boy! :wink: :lol: :lol:http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/obscene/eck05.gif

[Kornie]

K


well, im quite frankly shocked and offended.

[Loopy]

its not hard to tell why some of the better falconers have left.
i have absolutely no time for the likes of , Bb, OF, K, OMG and the rest of the cronies who post on here in a disrespectful manner.

That is a shame as you could learn lots from them. They like many other experienced falconers/austringers simply do not suffer fools gladly.

[Loopy]

Not only that SS your boyfriend bought a Harris Hawk without going on a course, kept it on a creance for MONTHS, put it in the moult at XMAS, has not entered it, and as far as I know still not got suitable land. By all accounts you now have another owl alongside this hawk. Tell us all something..............................HOW DO YOU DO IT????????

[Tim Laycock]

Thanks for that Loopy :wink:
Its great when you get some "Proper" information about these types :roll:
It lets you know exactly whom you are dealing with! :shock:

I talk the talk because I have been walking the walk for a good long while now. (Some 20 years<btw>)
People that dislike my manner with posters such as SS are either far better than me at falconry or quite simply "Clueless pumpers"
I have yet to be repremanded by the former!!! :lol: :mrgreen: 8)

[Afshimo]

Greetings!


I for one am glad of people like BB, OF, OMG and others who are strait talking and get to the point - you know where you stand and can correct yourself without loads of post's.

As this is a forum - different views - so its unlikly everyones gona agree - but you get to see different sides which is cool and something like that is hard to in real life.

No falconer's are better than you - simply more experianced! Whereas you say you have no time for the above ppl - I do! I can learn plenty from these guys and happy to do so! Plenty of ppl come on here to learn about falconry so thats why we have ppl like them! Arguements are simply heated discussions, a bad word will pass every now and then but we all learn stuff from each other - even if we dont agree with it! We dont make fun of newbies and novices, its this thing like "yeah, remener when I asked Q's like that" makes you smile but the other person doesnt see that and takes your remark as somthing bad. Idiots - no, humans -yes!

Any ways - Shiro is now coming bout 2 or 3m to the lure on the creance. Well chuffed! He's deffinatly a super bird and coming on fast now, round 1lb 13 1/4 so just an oz or less to come off.

No bb, I dont mind you messin up the thread! You are forgiven! Mind you, I'm carrying it on...

bola bing...bola bang...bolla bing....bolla bang...im obsessed...

ATB!

[Sprout]

Nice one Hannah. Chuffed for you

[Afshimo]

thx! im tryin to get sum pics up but network connections arnt working etc etc etc. I'm doing my best!

[Tim Laycock]

A very mature outlook Hannah.
Glad your bird is doing well :wink:

[Mary Quite Contrary]

I agree complete;y with OMG and BB
Well I strongly disagree with the statement that casting is not important. It most certainly is important although not essential in every meal.
You what?? So you recommend giving casting to a bird with suspected sour crop!!!!!!!!!?????????? NOOOOOOOOOOO


I think you need to read Reds post again?

Why would someone want to feed anything to a bird with a sour crop.

What part of space did you drag that comment from :?: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Tim Laycock]

Why would someone post a genersl statement about castings and how vital they are on a thread about the suspected symptoms of an illness?
If Red Sheridan had desired to inpart his views regarding the merits of giving casting why didnt he do so on the appropriate thread, The one entitled "Castings"? :|

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Why would someone post a genersl statement about castings and how vital they are on a thread about the suspected symptoms of an illness?
If Red Sheridan had desired to inpart his views regarding the merits of giving casting why didnt he do so on the appropriate thread, The one entitled "Castings"? :|

Reds comment was posted before the casting thread was born

I still don't see the relation between Reds post and what sprout is going green about?

[Tim Laycock]

Fair enough m8.
I cant be bothered dragging it up :|

[Red Sheridan]

Ho hum!

[Tim Laycock]

:?:

[Sprout]

If YOU read it Mark he disagreed about not giving casting on a post about sour crop! Where do you think the problem is?? For a novice reading this they might take it as it is ok to give more food in cases of sour crop. Try thinking!!

[Tim Laycock]

You worded it better than I could of managed Sprout :D

[Sprout]

So what is your treatment regime for sour crop Mark Dunn?

[Talib]

Sprout wrote:
If YOU read it Mark he disagreed about not giving casting on a post about sour crop! Where do you think the problem is?? For a novice reading this they might take it as it is ok to give more food in cases of sour crop. Try thinking!!

You are the one who caused the confusion Sprout... you stated unequivocally in your original post that: "Casting is not important." You gave it multiple meanings within the context of the rest of your post. Did you mean the "state" of the casting was not important, the "giving" of casting was not important, or the "actual phenomenan" of casting was not important???
You are now stating that "Casting IS important." - it is important "NOT" to give it in cases of sour crop... totally opposite to what came across in your original post.

Talib

[Tim Laycock]

Why should you have to qualify everything?
Whgen you post comment on a thread regarding a specific thing why should you have to stress that what you are saying relates to the thread and is not universaly applickable.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Sprout wrote:
If YOU read it Mark he disagreed about not giving casting on a post about sour crop! Where do you think the problem is?? For a novice reading this they might take it as it is ok to give more food in cases of sour crop. Try thinking!!

You are the one who caused the confusion Sprout... you stated unequivocally in your original post that: "Casting is not important." You gave it multiple meanings within the context of the rest of your post. Did you mean the "state" of the casting was not important, the "giving" of casting was not important, or the "actual phenomenan" of casting was not important???
You are now stating that "Casting IS important." - it is important "NOT" to give it in cases of sour crop... totally opposite to what came across in your original post.

Talib



Well said Talib.

Brussel you wrote " casting is not important " This is what Red replied to!

Strange how things get out of perspective.

[Tim Laycock]

Strange how things get out of perspective.
Your not wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kornie]

Brussel

LMFAO!!!

[Sprout]

How hard is it? DO NOT GIVE CASTING WITH SOUR CROP, any one want it any clearer??? I repeat again DO NOT GIVE CASTING WITH SOUR CROP. Where have I said it is ok to give casting if there is a sour crop Talib?? Do you now want a dictionary of what casting means in this context or want me to quantify eaxactly how much feather/fur should be given if the bird is healthy??

[Sprout]

Been through my posts again and on each I say do not give casting with sour crop - for the life of me I can't see where any confusion would arise apart from people not understanding what casting is?

[Talib]

Sprout wrote:
Be careful with beef, it is not balanced. Using washed beef for a few days to lower condition is ok but still intermittently feed whole chicks etc. Casting is not important. Green mutes/casting is from bile pigment. What condition is he in now, fat or thin? If condition is getting towards flying weight I'd worry more about the poor appetite

Sprout, you wrote "Casting is not important." in your post on the first page of this thread and Red Sheridan was responding to your above post.
Most people would surmise from the statement "Casting is not important." that you are saying it doesn't matter whether you give it or not.

Talib

[Sprout]

The thread is about sour crop! and it was in response to Hannah saying she hadn't given any casting - what other context could it have been taken??? :?

[MickeyDredd]

Hiya,

Is this what happened to Afra? Sour crop? Should I worry? I'm going to try and make an appointment with the vets.

He has been on beef mainly so far, with no casting.
Hannah

Sprout wrote:

Quote:Be careful with beef, it is not balanced. Using washed beef for a few days to lower condition is ok but still intermittently feed whole chicks etc. Casting is not important. Green mutes/casting is from bile pigment. What condition is he in now, fat or thin? If condition is getting towards flying weight I'd worry more about the poor appetite


Sprout, you wrote "Casting is not important." in your post on the first page of this thread and Red Sheridan was responding to your above post.
Most people would surmise from the statement "Casting is not important." that you are saying it doesn't matter whether you give it or not.

Talib

I read it as a specific response to a specific question by Hannah.

Mike

[SecretSquirrel]

SS, If you want to continue this by PM, feel free :wink:

no need Bb,

if my asking a question about beef and saying that some posters on here were rude when they swear on threads; makes you wet your pants, then I think you have a little problem mate, and Im quite suprised you aired it in public. :wink:

Regarding things I know, you don't know anything about me.

[MickeyDredd]

Regarding things I know, you don't know anything about me.

Of course he doesnt - you're Secret Squirrel :lol: :lol:

[Kornie]

Tis good advice though Sprout!

[Mary Quite Contrary]

So what is your treatment regime for sour crop Mark Dunn?


Well shoot! i mean sprout!

You are missing my point!

My treatment for sour crop is to hang a vet up by his ankles and make love to his mouth. Sorry i better stop my fantasy. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Water :arrow: :arrow: ..bridge.

[GogBoy]

I may be mistaken, but isn't the thread entitled "Green casts and mutes . . . deja vu?" Where does it mention sour crop? I think the answer may lie in a suggested ailment a member made, other than that I need glasses! lol

Loopy, nice comments to SS, my fiancee. Where did you get such nonsense and if anything I told your fella was such a problem, why didn't he contact me about it? He has my email addy after all?

Shame we don't live stateside, you would be receiving a libel action from me re your comments about my apparent mistreatment of my hawk. Enjoy your life! And arguments, I will continue speaking to open minded individuals on another falconry forum, this one has served its purpose.

[Kornie]

Are we to take it from your comments that loopy is telling porkies?

[GogBoy]

SS is a lass. Fiancee is the female, fiance is the male. lol I had the same problem fella! Imagine the looks when u pick out the wrong card! :oops:

And as for Loopy's comments, yes she is m8. She has made statements before asking for the facts. My Cass has not been on a creance for months, she has been freelofted in her aviary. I didn't start her moult @ Christmas, she started to moult in January. And is looking great! Also, we do have land and loads of it! lol I have several landowners permission to hunt and my parents land to use aswell.

I have pm'ed Loopy about this matter, and hopefully I have corrected any mis understandings.

[Kornie]

lol, I edited it as appropriate gogboy. My head was spinning for a second there, fiance sounds so...dare I be sexist...girly... lol!

Thanks for the clear up mate :wink:

[GogBoy]

No worries fella, me mam had to correct us! lol I suppose either word does sound effeminate, thats the frogs 4 ya! lol :wink:
Sorry 4 going off thread, always like to help spread education.

[LanczSpringer]

OK I saw what Sprout was talking about, Hannah had suspected sour crop, to which sprout repleid that casting is not the main worry!

now then lets get talking ***** again, and make it the green stuff!!

[GogBoy]

lol glad thats ( hopefully )sorted! Nice dog btw! My parents have a 2 year old but he is riddled with Lymphoma, still lively tho! :)
I hope to own a springer one day, that or a wolf hound! Like to see a burglar try his luck with that in the house! :twisted:

[Adam Barrett]

My Cass has not been on a creance for months, she has been freelofted in her aviary.

But has she flown free mate?

i dont think any1 really thought that you kept her on the creance 24-7
:lol: :wink:

[Tim Laycock]

no need Bb,

if my asking a question about beef and saying that some posters on here were rude when they swear on threads; makes you wet your pants, then I think you have a little problem mate, and Im quite suprised you aired it in public.

Regarding things I know, you don't know anything about me.

I didnt want to make you look any more stupid than you already look, Thats why I was gave the option to carry this on by PM.
As you have opted not to take this option you now look more than a little silly in a kind of "Had to have the last word" kind of way.

<btw> I do not do anything in my pants at the thought of an exchange with you, on an open forum(or anywhere else for that matter)

You are right I know very little about you but the more I hear and the more hard evidence I am presented with the less I wish to have any dealings with you.

Perhaps you would care to elaborate on the brief overview I have been given?
What experience of Falconry(not just bop keeping)do you have?
What do you fly?(Free or otherwise)
How many slips have you presented your charge with this week?
What quarry has been taken this week by you and yours ?(Ever?)

If you are in possession of the wit you were born with you will take the PM route with your reply if you have anything to say but I doubt you will chose to do this.

I have tried very hard not to be rude but I suspect my bad character has shone through regardless

[SecretSquirrel]

{taken to pm as Bb so ernestly feels necessary and this thread isnt about me or my practice}

. . . hard evidence? lmao :roll:

[Tim Laycock]

hard evidence? lmao
You shouldnt!
you couldnt let it lie could you?

Hard evidence? Its the only "hard" thing you will ever get judging by the look of you!!! ROFPMSL

[Adam Barrett]

:lol: :lol: :lol: nice one mate

[SecretSquirrel]

will you please keep to thread and stop twitting! read the posting rules.

[Tim Laycock]

Why do people always go running for the rule book when they are wading through deep ****.
Dont dig a hole and I will not fill it in while you are down it you ***in divvy
Stop posting platitudes of ***** And I for my part will do the same 8)

[Tim Laycock]

I tried this Andy but the other party would not let it lie on this thread.
I for my part have shook it like a dog with a rag :oops:
Appologies for this but I couldnt resist(Can I ever) :mrgreen:

[GogBoy]

BB you arrogant pr1ck! See! How clever is this swearing on a supposedly intelligent forum?
Suffice as to say the moderators are useless, you are an idiot and I hope your single cell amoeba you call a brain runs away leaving you dribbling like the vegetable you are!
Why have you directed so much abuse at this one person? Feeling a little inferior? :wink:
You sad individual. I hope your bird/s escape your simple minded captivity and are found by deserving owners. No wonder the 'real' falconers have left or have avoided the forum.

To quote the mentally incapable individual

" Thanks for that Loopy
Its great when you get some "Proper" information about these types
It lets you know exactly whom you are dealing with!

I talk the talk because I have been walking the walk for a good long while now. (Some 20 years<btw>)
People that dislike my manner with posters such as SS are either far better than me at falconry or quite simply "Clueless pumpers"
I have yet to be repremanded by the former!!! "


Are we to understand from this quote and your supposed age on your profile that you have been falconing since the age of 7? If you have fair play to u, I wish I had such long timne enjoying the hobbies I have taken up since adulthood.
Or would it be because of the nasty Red Dragon that BB is scared of and has to have a go @ Welsh people? The floor is open . . . dance monkey! :wink: :twisted:

I post this as a vain hope that the moderators actually do something, and actually start censoring people for derogatory and downright offensive comments!