Beef

[Afshimo]

Whats your opinions on beef?

[OhMyGod]

Nick Fox and others say 'hawks don't catch cows so why feed beef'

I have fed beef to birds in the past. I also met a guy who fed his hh beef with no supplement or castings for months and months with no problems of fits or the like. I explained that birds need calcium and nutrients found in all the organ components to be healthy and think he understood the risk of feeding beef only diet. Feeding beef only to an accipiter would be disasterous and you would soon learn the error of your ways as it started fitting. But all opinions are different and I don't really think feeding beef is as big a risk as the things alot of falconers do, like feeding unfrozen pigeon for one.

As I have said on the other thread it can be useful in taming down of some birds when new to humans as it has no casting, even skinned chick will have some casting unless you cut pull off the head and lower leggs and all fluff. I think it's ok and too much emphasis has been put on beef as a poor diet as a temp measure, as it is no good in the long term which is a point you must fully understand, as I am sure you do.

I say beef for a few days in your circumstances is fine hannah!

[The New Kid]

Nick Fox and others say 'hawks don't catch cows so why feed beef'

It would be quite entertaining if they did, though... =op

[Osiris]

Well said OhMyGod. Think that covers most on the topic about feeding beef to birds. I agree with you on the matter that it should be a temp measure only. Dont feed the bird on beef for too long or as you said, 'nasty' results could happen...

[Tim Laycock]

I never give beef to an accipiter.
Its alright for others but as OMG states, It should only be temporary.

[OhMyGod]

I must just add this

Never feed beef that has been chopped into chunks. this is EXTREMELY dangerous as the birds will try and swollow it whole. If they eat too much they will not be able to put the crop over and will cost you loads at the vet or worst case a dead bird. even if you only feed a third crop of chunked beef it can still get stuck so be aware! If you slice through a bit into chunks like on the silly old mima video make sure they are small chunks or you WILL be anoyed with yourself.

[Tim Laycock]

Exellent point OMG :!:
Slivers are the way to go if it must be chopped.

[Arthur]

and the cow flew over the moon,
the little boy laughed to such fun,

[Takajo]

A nice soft bit o the shin does my harris nicely (easy to rip as she likes)

[Sean]

i know this is an old thread, but there may have been new people who have joined since the last reply, so does anyone feed beef, i use to feed alot of beef to rolf untill sprout told me it wwasnt a good idea, id only use it once a fortnight or so now, if even

[Saker-Clive]

I regularly give my birds 'steak', cheap frying steak from Llidl's, £1.85 for 2; 1 goes in the freezer and the other cut up and fed along with DOC's, as a variety.
Never had any probs.

[Palmer]

Shin beef is good for training a bird to eat off the fist as it takes a while to eat!?

[BFC 007]

Shin beef is good for training a bird to eat off the fist as it takes a while to eat!?


not as good as a tiring though young un :lol:
keep the beef for calling to the fist in training

[Palmer]

Whats tiring?:roll:

[BFC 007]

Whats tiring?:roll:


lol running a marathon :lol:

a rabbit leg or pheasant wing,something with not much meat on to allow the bird to pull away at it on your fist while manning

[Palmer]

Ow ok:D

[Coedhirion]

Prefer to keep the beef for a nice beef stew with dumplings and onions.
rabbit, rat, quail, pheasant, woodcock plus the DOCs are enough variety for my bird and all caught out in the field other than those DOCs, so nice and cheap :lol:

[AngelJakki]

Ours just gets rabbit, quail, guinea pig, pigeon frozen firstand mice. Always thought beef is too high in protein. They say that when we eat beef it takes 3-4 days to digest would it not mean that a bird would take as long to digest making it feel slow and stodge.

[Kennelre]

One of the things I mithered about most when I first got my Harris was the issue of feeding and, most especially, how to balance hunting weight with ensuring effective nutrition. I got a copy of the small paperback...Raptor Nutrition by Neil Forbes which is a more than useful booklet to have.....so I don't feed beef.

[ColdZero]

the only time i have ever fed beef is if for some reason i have no other food (dog nicked it probably :lol:). I just go to the butcher, but apart from that why feed it? It didn't seem to be much different from chick

[Pink_Eagle]

i think JMP feeds beef, its mentiond in quite alot of her books

[Renton]

i think JMP feeds beef, its mentiond in quite alot of her books

Indeed she does! In small quantities it does no harm. My vet has treated many, many birds over the years that have been overfed on beef. It compacts in the crop and the bird can't put it over due to the lack of roughage. He knows precisely what is wrong with such a bird before it is even out of the box; just by the smell!

[Falconry Equipment International]

as Renton states beef can cause real probs if OVERFED ( aqnd has indeed killed many hawks ~ they find it difficult to put over the same way they can doc's etc) another prob is that you never know exactly how old the meat is when you ahve bought it from the butcher... if you think about it the best tasting beef has been hung for about 4-5 weeks fine for human consumption if being cooked but for your BOP I personally would mnot advise for the above reasons. HTH J

[Albie]

Here's my thoughts on beef Hannah.
I use beef when flying my Hawk, but only when I am introducing newbies to the thrill of Nimbus flying to THEIR FIST.
You know what it's like when you're trying to impress, and the last thing they would like to see is a bit of yellow fluffy chick and guts on their gloved hand..
As for feeding beef I feed exactly 28grms cut into the finest of slithers and it goes a long long way while the newcomers enjoy their experience.
Albie..

[Big JoeJoe]

I have bought beef many times for my birds but have never fed it to them because when I see the beef I end up thinking mmmmmmm that looks nice I'll have that myself then before you know it its in the pan with some mushrooms and onions. yum yum yum

Cheers Big JoeJoe

[Hawkmaster]

My dad was in the meet game for 28 years in the RSA and we got beef, goat and horse for free. Many birds were flown on it, but there was always a break for food with roughage, like rifle shot birds, rats and Dassies. They all seemed to do well on it and it was our main source of food, similar to how most folks now feed DoCs.

[Falconry Equipment International]

My dad was in the meet game for 28 years in the RSA and we got beef, goat and horse for free. Many birds were flown on it, but there was always a break for food with roughage, like rifle shot birds, rats and Dassies. They all seemed to do well on it and it was our main source of food, similar to how most folks now feed DoCs.
Hi Paul , what are dassies? also thing is with your dad getting the meat fresh , he would know exactly how old it was I presume , so immedeately that sorts out my 2nd concern, re my comment s re rentons post this was going on one of my vet's advice , but it seems to be more prevelant in HH rthan any other species HTH J
BTw give me a shout re your project on dartmoor I am happy to advise if I can ATB J

[Hawkmaster]

Yes fresh and even warm everyday.

A dassie (http://www.krugerpark.co.za/africa_rock_dassie.html) is the worlds closest realtive to the elephant, I knew a bloke that hunted them with a Black Eagle.:supz:

[Sean]

i know a guy(he might even see this) who feeds his birds and ferrets almost 100% on beef, and puts supplement on it for the bird. he lost a bird at thge start of the season, bashed its whole wing being dragged into cover by a buck rabbit. vet said that there wasnt anything he could do and he would need to be put outa his pain. now that got me thinking about his diet, but hes still using it. hes one of these uys who hates chciks(i still dont underswtand y people do).

[Tim Laycock]

Dassie= Rock Hyrax?

[DeathFromAbove]

I feed beef ocasionally, will buy a steak or some braising beef and feed it over a few days then it's back to quail, docs, phessy etc.... not had any problems either, don't even chop it up just go in there with half a steak in my fist and she rips and chomps it up.

[Jack Merlin]

Someone once remarked to George Lodge that beef was not a natural food for a sparrowhawk so it should not be fed to them.

Lodge replied, "Natural be-damned! They'd kill cows if they could!"

That, for the children here who are to young to know, was the famous G E Lodge who did the paintings in Jack Mavrogordato's "A Hawk for the Bush", etc.

[Tim Laycock]

I believe Lodge was also lightly touched by madness <vbg>

[Jack Merlin]

I believe Lodge was also lightly touched by madness <vbg>

Your source?

I knew Geoffrey Campbell-Black very well indeed and he knew Lodge personally. He thought a lot of Lodge and never even mentioned that he was anything but 100% on the ball and "feet on the ground" sort of guy.

[Tim Laycock]

I have been digging around all night trying to find it :-?
I have definatly seen it implied in print!

At the end of the day though it is said that all genius's are touched by madness when they create their best work and Lodge certainly was a genius who created some fantistic pieces<g>

[GaryPCO]

I have been digging around all night trying to find it :-?
I have definatly seen it implied in print!

At the end of the day though it is said that all genius's are touched by madness when they create their best work and Lodge certainly was a genius who created some fantistic pieces<g>
Same goes for you tim mad as a hatter :cool:

[HoumaFalconer]

beef, deer, rabbit, all of this is good just as long as you keep rotation what they eat and also feed a whole animal diet

[Tim Laycock]

I knew Geoffrey Campbell-Black very well indeed and he knew Lodge personally. He thought a lot of Lodge and never even mentioned that he was anything but 100% on the ball and "feet on the ground" sort of guy.

I certainly dont think what I remember reading was derogatory, we all have the capacity to do and say things that at times shock our peers.
perhaps this was a refference to just such a case.

I wish I had not posted it now!

The last thing I would wish to do is cast a shaddow over a falconer and artist who I would certainly consider to be one of the greats :!:

[Jack Merlin]

Beef used to be almost a staple diet of hawks and falcons over fifty years ago and it is good red wholesome meat when the sinews and fat have been trimmed off. But, as has been said, it does not supply a complete diet.

Sheep's heart was also recommended for merlins and sparrowhawks earlier this century but we now know this is totally incorrect as it is one step up from washed meat. The funny thing is, while researching the old books, they knew that over 400 years ago! Another piece of knowledge that got lost by "modern falconers" who "know best".

Incidentally, I suspect the old authors recommended beef because it was fairly easy (compared with other meats at that time) to keep "fresh" without refrigeration. Just hang a chunk in cool moving air so a skin forms on the outside and the inner red meat will remain good hawk food for several days. These days we have deep freezers and refrigerators so we don't even think of these problems.

[Falconry Equipment International]

I believe Lodge was also lightly touched by madness <vbg>
Tim & what is the problem with that? most geniuses are either one step from madness or beyond it!:rolleyes: you know me well enough by now to know I am obviously beyond the pail & without any genius too boote:oops: ATB J

[Jack Merlin]

Tim & what is the problem with that? most geniuses are either one step from madness or beyond it!:rolleyes: you know me well enough by now to know I am obviously beyond the pail & without any genius too boote:oops: ATB J

It all hinges on definitions.

Having seen the type of person who claims to be sane, I don't think that is anything any reasonable person should aspire to.

I once knew a man who proudly announced that he knew he was sane because he had a certificate from a doctor to prove it.

Having considered the question, I am happy to remain as I am. And, as I fly a goshawk, I think my chances of getting that certificate are pretty slim anyway...

Excuse me, time to go. The bottle is not yet empty.