Manning & Flying

[Xantara]

Hi

I hear and read about hard manning of birds in thr first 2/3 weeks of getting them. Someone anounced flying in 9 days which I think is a bit fast but what do I know? I would of thought a lot depends on birds inteligence does it.

What you all think in there a good time to do it in, that benefits the bird not just the handler and whats the best age I see birds offered from 16 to 20 weeks which is a bit confusing if one can get to flying in the gap between ???


Xan

[Osiris]

Xan, everyone has their own way of manning and training/flying. I give my birds two weeks 'intense' manning and within that time, getting the bird to step-up to the glove, jumping to the glove etc. Then after the 2 weeks i take the bird to some flying ground and start the flying their. I just started to fly my new FHH on Monday. She did a few jumps and flew 4metres. Yesterday (Tuesday), she flew the entire length of the craence without any hesitation, she was starting to follow-on quite slowly and she flew more than the length of the craence line in the end of the 'session'.

Someone anounced flying in 9 days which I think is a bit fast but

This is someone elses way of doing manning & flying/training. This person is doing a lot of manning at the same time as getting his/her bird to fly on the craence or free. It can be done in this short amount of time as you can see.

I personnally think its up to the individual person do decide when you think its appropriate to start to train your bird to fly to the fist. Its also up to you thinking if the bird is ready for it. Making sure the bird is comfortable with yourself is a big thing in the training & manning process.

Hope this helps Xan.

J

[OutFlying]

Hi

I hear and read about hard manning of birds in thr first 2/3 weeks of getting them. Someone anounced flying in 9 days which I think is a bit fast but what do I know? I would of thought a lot depends on birds inteligence does it.

What you all think in there a good time to do it in, that benefits the bird not just the handler and whats the best age I see birds offered from 16 to 20 weeks which is a bit confusing if one can get to flying in the gap between ???


Xan

Birds intelligence has nothing to do with it, your techniques are the key to successful training.

[Osiris]

Birds intelligence has nothing to do with it, your techniques are the key to successful training.
V.True OF. :supz: :weedman:

[Hawkmaster]

I think is a bit fast
Why would this be fast, as opposed to say 2 or 3 weeks or manning and then training? What are the negatives you have of his method :?:

[OutFlying]

I think too many people on this forum actually forget the true aim with a bop - that is to train it to hunt. Not spend months messing about with the creance. Condition and train the hawk - THEN - hunt with it.

9 days - well done to him. If the harris is in good condition and flying free then his methods must be sound.

[Hawkmaster]

My point exactly OF, we did have this debate before and I still see no reason to change from a manning, training, fitness and hunting, ASAP type of regime!

Mikey now after less than two weeks, has a hawk that is working, not stressedany longer and will be doing what it should be, . . . hunting!

[OutFlying]

I usually have the a new eyass gos going and entered within 14-17 days from start to finish. You carry on the manning process when your hunting, I fly most days and the gos will be on the fist for 3 - 4 hours per day, how much more manning do you need ? I'm sure success from the fist combined with carriage is going to benefit the hawk a lot more than stroking it in the mews and being friendly with it.

Jack Mavro stated something similar in "A Hawk for the Bush", minimum training (just enough) then get hunting.

OF.

[Moses]

I usually have the a new eyass gos going and entered within 14-17 days from start to finish. You carry on the manning process when your hunting, I fly most days and the gos will be on the fist for 3 - 4 hours per day, how much more manning do you need ? I'm sure success from the fist combined with carriage is going to benefit the hawk a lot more than stroking it in the mews and being friendly with it.

Jack Mavro stated something similar in "A Hawk for the Bush", minimum training (just enough) then get hunting.

OF.

OF if u dont mind me asking a question

i didnt know this till last few days ago
is it true goshawks need more manning than any other hawk or buzzard or it will go back to its own natural way is this with parent reared ones only or imprints as well

came to the conclusion, leave the goshawks to the professionals :D read alot about them and hmm very hard work :D

[OutFlying]

Moses,
Accipiters will return to their wild state faster than other hawks. Goshawks are not hard work if done correctly, but they are less forgiving than others - so your methods need to be good.

OF

[Moses]

thanks alot my friend :)

[Afshimo]

I agree with moses, prahaps in a good few years when Ive me own house, more land lots of time - I'll think about it. Like the look of a spar... hmm lol. But for now - I admire ppl who can buy a Gos and hunt em everyday - u lucky sods! :)

[Moses]

I agree with moses, prahaps in a good few years when Ive me own house, more land lots of time - I'll think about it. Like the look of a spar... hmm lol. But for now - I admire ppl who can buy a Gos and hunt em everyday - u lucky sods! :)
ditto i agree, i admire those folk too, the best bird in the world , luv em to bits

hannah u ever worked with one or flew one at your falconry place

cheers

[OutFlying]

Hannah,
What happen the spar you had the other year ? I came across an old spar diary thread today - you had a spar but only a few posts then it stopped.

Jim.

[GoneHawking]

Jim, is that 14- 17 days from the first day the Gos feeds on the fist :? I am no fan of the creance and prefer to get the hawk off it asap, a couple of days and you should no wether the bird is ready to go or not. I also suppose it depends on how long you spend with the bird per day in those 14 days manning and how much it accepts in those early days, Every bird is different and I wouldn't want to say every bird should be going in two weeks, I think the bird will be ready to go long before we are :wink:

[OutFlying]

From first picking him up from the aviary. Every bird is different as you say. I done 2 male p/r gosses and both were going and entered at around these time scales. I don't man at high weights and aim to have just enough control to get him back to start with, plus I'll fly him for the first week on wide open land with no trees only walls to land on. I found the gosses to be easier than the harris to man and get going.

Jim.

[Afshimo]

Hiya,

That spar was great lol, I was told that a guy wanted to buy her so he came and saw her but she had major tail damage and didnt want to go through the bother of imping her i guess. Then I took her back to the centre, went on holiday and she had gone. Done know where but I have my suspisioins! Missie was great, just had her jumping - I was well proud lol. I'm not going into much detail but communication aint too great at the centre.

[HawkMan69UK]

i had my female gos from fist to enterd in 20 days bit like OF said get them keen enough to control and open spaces and goses definatly easier to enter than a harris........... my little musket ate for the first time today properly at 162 gms got him sunday so tonight was now or never ..at 170gm not interested but now the little man is cropped up :lol:

[Xantara]

Jesus christ where the hell u lot come from thought u only came out at night in pairs :)

would of thought that just maybe the birds brain comes into it somewhere along the way find it absolutely amazing that humans are so fkn clever :)

Thanks people for your replies

xan

xan

[OutFlying]

Xan,
Feed your hawk up to top weight -open the aviary door and see how intelligent it his. Or train it using traditional methods and see the results. If you want help with the crossword ask a friend, the harris can't help you :wink:

OF

[Moses]

i had my female gos from fist to enterd in 20 days bit like OF said get them keen enough to control and open spaces and goses definatly easier to enter than a harris........... my little musket ate for the first time today properly at 162 gms got him sunday so tonight was now or never ..at 170gm not interested but now the little man is cropped up :lol:
well done hawkman , nice one :) any pics mate

cheers

[Xantara]

He He ye ok its not inteligent but it manages to get through the door with out you showing him which is pretty good init for a thick bird anyway :)

Am apreciating wot you are saying too well and think its a credit to those who are able to do it.

xan

[HawkMan69UK]

what you have to appreicaite xan a few people on this forum put a lot of work into there birds.. so when the answer seems abrupt its meant with the intention for you or whoever to take note..myself and many others on this forum do know a lot and do need to learn more but when someone has the iminent intention of getting a hawk and asking very very basic questions it gets hackels up..you should know wayyyy before purchseing your hawk..this may or may not be your case but it happens all the time and results in dead birds ruined birds and lots of lost ones....bops are driven by appetite now in pr birds if there fat they dont wanna know ya your not there friend although they do recogise you the dont want a cuddle and dont care how sweet they look...back on thread manning is just a way of getting the hawk to except you when there on a kill and to assist them into hunting and consentrate on the job in hand rather than worry where there sat hopefully on your glove... imprints differ slighty but again there quite happy to be fed and f--k off in my humble opinion 8) any way nothing personal just my veiws :lol:

[Wightwings]

good post..... :supz:

[Xantara]

Thats cool with me and I dont see any problem with you thinking bop are thick which is what lead to your speech.

The original question was a reasonable one re your opinions on manning and flying which cant be got from any book and was asked because you had personal experience and genuine opinions.

I am sorry if my little tetatet over the birds inteligence somehow offended you and detracted from the initial question which was answered fully by those who responded including yourself so thanx.

xan

[Xantara]

Sorry Hawkmaster missed your question. I said it seemed a bit fast because thats what I though as it is I would assume a difficult thing to master given the situation involves a human and a wild bird. I though I had pronounced my ignorence by saying what do I know.

xan

[Takajo]

Hi


What you all think in there a good time to do it in, that benefits the bird not just the handler and whats the best age I see birds offered from 16 to 20 weeks which is a bit confusing if one can get to flying in the gap between ???


XanAs all have said, bop are ruled by there stomaches, however, you are quite right Xantara m'dear in that, due to both heredity and chick-to-brancher experience, the birds' intelligence to survive varies from bird to bird. And some will take less time to train even given the circumstances are the same. Some long before 16 weeks... Some you may feel you wanna write-off, but time will see them through...

[HawkMan69UK]

xan wasent meant personal mate.... 8) :lol: did it sound like a speech ........ :wink:

[Xantara]

No not personal I can take banging not a problem.

Itst difficult when you start a thread with a reasonable question because I am trying to not sound like a fckwit and get people to talk so everyone gains init.

Very basic questions are as important as advanced questions reading books is fine and they probably have some of the answers somewhere but this is about nature and that makes us all novices with books for reference so questions must be asked.



xan

[HawkMan69UK]

point taken :oops: :lol:

[Xantara]

Its cool m8

I work with natural stone for flooring been at it 20yrs and still s*** myself over a job because u never know what the stone will do how it will react in the fixing process etc. There must be a million experts and books but its natural it will do as it pleases no matter how much u think u know. When u least expect it lol

Its nature thats all there is no ultimate answer init u learnin 4ever

oh and stone is dead with no wings :) :)

xan

[Finnish]

MOVED THREAD TO CORRECT PLACE :)

[Xantara]

He He dont you sleep Finnish :)

xan

[Finnish]

:supz: :lol: :lol:

[Xantara]

man u must have a good view of bristol to wana get up this early, it ****in down here so cant be good there LOL
:)

[Finnish]

No rain just dark :wink:

[Xantara]

always the bloody same i come out of england off the bridge and the rain starts time the wind blew the other way init :):)

[Kanati]

Xan,
Feed your hawk up to top weight -open the aviary door and see how intelligent it his

I did that (by accident) and he would not come back to me, but when it got dark he went back the aviary and went to sleep. Does that imply some intelligence :?:

[OutFlying]

Xan,
Feed your hawk up to top weight -open the aviary door and see how intelligent it his

I did that (by accident) and he would not come back to me, but when it got dark he went back the aviary and went to sleep. Does that imply some intelligence :?:

Yes it implies your lack of it :shock:

[Gaz]

:finga: :mrgreen: :finga:

[HawkMan]

Just a quick question lads about manning ?????
What if a bird has been trained before you have it and the reward to the fist is large chunks of rabbit legs .
Ive just started to help me m8 train a 8 year old f red .
We started to drop its weight had a few good flights 1 day the next 2 nothing and so on ,in the end the bird just got on the fist after doing nothing ,and started to bait ,then hung upside down and seemed exhausted .
A bit like a chicken on your fist ?????/
Can this bird be retaught to normal rewards or is it going to want to have large reward each times it comes to the fist .
My freind at the moment has started again and has been asking for short jumps and loads of manning ,is this the way forward .
I have a m red my self and i think the females are stuborn bitches is this common ,i know it is in me wife but thats a different story ,lol
Thanks
johnny :D

[OutFlying]

Not enough information JB,
Has this red tail been flown every season prior to your friend gettting her ?
How long has he been manning her ? If she higher or lower in weight than the last owner usually started her at ?

Can you expand on the good flights bit - it doesn't make sense. What does "just got on the fist after doing nothing" mean ?

Jim.

[Sokoly]

Fellows, we are talking about manning here. Used to work on a falcon farm in Dubai. In conversation with a lot of arab falconers they say that two weeks is enough time to mann and start hunting with a passage falcon mostly Sakers they use. But also another important thing that I noticed is that they don't train there birds in the middle of a field crossed with highways, sheep grazing etc. They do it in the desert. So there are very few dissruptions to the bird. Also they constanly stroke and touch there birds. I tried the same at home with passage peregrine and it took me a little bit more time. I am a working person, so the time I can spend with my birds is shorter.

[Sokoly]

A word of advice to the person who started this topic. There is no secret formula, as much as you put in, that much you get out of your bird. Spend more quality time - with tiering in your fist and try to expose your bird to different new things each session. The training goes along the way. They overlap with the manning. I like the abovementioned that somebody earlier said: Manning never stops. Good luck

[Mary Quite Contrary]

quote
We started to drop its weight had a few good flights 1 day the next 2 nothing and so on ,in the end the bird just got on the fist after doing nothing ,and started to bait ,then hung upside down and seemed exhausted .
A bit like a chicken on your fist ?????/








Jon , this bird sounds like it is within the danger zone , it might not have the energy to bate and stand up.

[HawkMan]

quote
We started to drop its weight had a few good flights 1 day the next 2 nothing and so on ,in the end the bird just got on the fist after doing nothing ,and started to bait ,then hung upside down and seemed exhausted .
A bit like a chicken on your fist ?????/

No the bird at the time was above hunting weight when it took a fit ,
Some bad news aswell today, the lads gone in the mew and found it dead ????????
He said on the phone it looked spooked the night before while training it ???????
The guy me m8 bought it off said its hunting weight was 2lb 10 oz
the bird was well over 2oz at the time ?????
Thanks for the info lads
Johnny






Jon , this bird sounds like it is within the danger zone , it might not have the energy to bate and stand up.

[Dave G]

bit lost on this one is the redtail dead :cry:

[HawkNorth]

the odd bone 2oz

[HarrisHawk.1.]

i got my harris at 16 weeks old and now its 24 and its been flying for 2weeks now but if you dont work and spend all day with your bird then itll be flying at 20-22weeks .

[HawkNorth]

if the harris is got at 16 why wait so long