Training Male Harris Hawk

[Spindle]

Hi all
I picked up my first Harris hawk and was wondering if any of you more experienced guys could help me out. Max came out of the aivary at 1lb 9oz and since then i have managed to get him feeding off the fist which he hadent done for 4 days and since that i have also been able to pickup from perch and jump ups from the perch all inside his aivary and all for food, though his weight has dropped to 1lb 4 3/4 oz before i got best results for the jumps. At times he can be very quick to do these things and other times he can be just plain frustrating refusing to come(even when he clearly wants the food) randomly bating form the fist (especialy just as i am bringing him through the aivary door.as well as outside in the garden :evil: It just always seems like its two steps forwards then 3 steps back with him. Iv prepared for a year prior to getting him but all the books and vids are still no preparation.Any help from you guys would be very much apreciated :)

[ColdZero]

how many times does he jump before stopping?

[Adam Barrett]

Sounds to me like he still needs more manning as well mate

[Tim Laycock]

Sounds to me like he still needs more manning as well mate

Me too

[MickeyDredd]

Sounds to me like he still needs more manning as well mate

Also, start doing the manning, feeding and jumps, etc away from the aviary - he needs to get exposure to big wide world at this stage.

[Spindle]

I currently man him for 2 hours how much longer should i be looking to do with him. I also dont want to give him to much food whilst jumping and stepping as i dont want to push his weight up.

[Spindle]

how many times does he jump before stopping?
He tends to refuse early on in the day but will jump aslong as there is food on offer in the evening, i usually go for around 4 or 5 jump ups a time.

[Raseni]

I spend most of the day with my MHH, just having him in the living room watching me, in the garden when I am working there, take him for about 45min. walks to 1 hour, feed him on the fist at about 1700hours, I have had him for 6 days, and have done intensive manning the whole time, he has fed the last 3 days on the fist, he steppes up with no food on the fist, when I pick him up from bow perch, he still bates when he is on perch in garden, but almost never inside, and very rarely on the fist,.
his weight is 670 grams which is something like 1lb 5½ ounces? I am not quite sure. But he will need a reduction when I start the training. But till now, the manning has helped much on his character, he will let me touch most of him, feet, chest, wings etc. without much fuss.

I am in no way an expert, but it seems to me, that the manning is very very inportant, as it will make the bird responsive at a higher weight and when much of the fearfactor is already reduced through the manning process.

But hey, I might encounter many more problems when i get to the jumps, I shall se later on today, will make him jump for food today.


cheers,
Rasmus

[ColdZero]

how many times does he jump before stopping?
He tends to refuse early on in the day but will jump aslong as there is food on offer in the evening, i usually go for around 4 or 5 jump ups a time.

thats a little confusing mate, why is he getting fed in the morning AND evening? Has he evening cast when you are feeding him again?

[Spindle]

how many times does he jump before stopping?
He tends to refuse early on in the day but will jump aslong as there is food on offer in the evening, i usually go for around 4 or 5 jump ups a time.

thats a little confusing mate, why is he getting fed in the morning AND evening? Has he evening cast when you are feeding him again?

As far as i was aware you are supposed to offer them food when asking them to step up jump up etc. I try to work with him morning and later on in the day aswell.

[OutFlying]

Feed once a day at 24 hours after the last feed, you results will improve. Spend time with the hawk without the need for jumping. Pick him up on the glove, put him back on the perch etc. Expose him to the wide world maybe with a tiring in your glove to keep him occupied.

Maybe need to read your reference books again..................

Jim.

[Takajo]

What do you have as his average weight now? A bit high maybe. So not getting the results you want until evening. Lower his average weight a bit, you'll see him respond more. You're right around there but maybe a little high....

[Spindle]

What do you have as his average weight now? A bit high maybe. So not getting the results you want until evening. Lower his average weight a bit, you'll see him respond more. You're right around there but maybe a little high....

He was 1lb 5 3/4 oz when he started to feed from the fist and i have since lowered him to 1lb 4 3/4 oz and got much better results this evening. I suppose its just weight control im struggling to learn. his response was 10 times better coming straight to fist when called but this left me wondering how much to feed him before finnishing, as i dont want to push his weight back up again.

[HawkMan69UK]

when coming out of the mews turn around so you back out first in this way he dosent see the big picture just you simple but it works

[FlameHairedFalconer]

I think you might want to try him on the creance and get him going some distances rather than jumping to the fist (unless this is what you mean!). If he wont fly any distance then he probably needs a drop in weight.

In this sort of weather he wont need much to keep his weight level. Try to make him work for all his food and use a tiring if needed to keep his interest on the fist.

Harrises love company, and evening watching the family or infront of the TV would be good manning.

[ColdZero]

watching the family or infront of the TV would be good manning

why not walk about where he might actually see something new? i don't see how sitting in a room does any good. As soon as they will sit on the fist try and find something new everyday, cars, cows etc you never know how they might react if they haven't been exposed to them. If my RT attacks a lamb i would lose almost all my hunting land.

[OutFlying]

If your redtail attacks a lamb - its too low :oops:

[Takajo]

Lower its weight, and watch it go....

[Mikey]

As outflyingOk guys...the bird is at 1.5 n summit...wich is really low...REALLY low.As outflying says...feed every 24 hours...you need to watch for a casting before you feed him too much food the next day also,else you risk causing an impacted crop,wich will go sour(infected)
If you have the time,man the bird as much as poss.If you can have him sat on your fist all day then do it...as already said introduce him to every thing...around the house and garden to start with.Pop him on his bow perch ...leave him 5 minutes...pic him back up and so on.If he has food late in the day..then in the morning after he has been left alone for a few hours he will be reluctant to come to you for food.A pick up piece is all that is needed in the mornings.(half a chick wing!!)Then man him for an hour or so,after that try to get him coming to the fist...if you are on jump ups you should be looking to increase the distance each time..if he refuses the extra distance go back to the last ,but never go shorter than his longest!(a short jump or step up with heart n lung of chick as a taster is ok...get his tastebuds working!!)But manning as some one else has already said is the key.He should not get any food unless he jumps/flies to you for it.But i dont think you have manned the bird for long enough.He needs to be confident in your company

[Mikey]

My male harris was 1.7 3/4 out of the breeders mews.He took 2 days to eat from the fist.(of wich he spent all of that 2 days with me...i got really good at going for a pee one handed!!)Once he fed i would put him on his bow perch in the garden,living room,Wherever for 5-10 minutes at a time n pic him back up.He had the dog round all the time.Once he ate off fist he had to step up,he wasn't allowed any food till he stepped up.Then he wasn't allowed any food till he jumped.Once he jumped he had to jump firther and further each time till he needed the creance,and was then flying free...in 9 days.But i would not have achieved this with 2 hours manning per day!...If you want some real advice..Ask HAWKMASTER...what he doesn't know aint worth knowing..Best of luck to you spindle

[MickeyDredd]

As outflyingOk guys...the bird is at 1.5 n summit...wich is really low...REALLY low.

Mikey, unless you know this bird you cannot make such a statement, some MHH fly as low as 1lb 2oz.

[Mikey]

No ...but it's still low...and he hasnt been manned enough..wich was my main point..if you read my post again you'll see that i said dont feed him till he does whatever you 're trying at the time...step..jump...leash lenght ETC...this will drop his weight and give him every oportunity to eat when he's ready...instead of just depriving him full stop! But yes you r correct

[Mikey]

He did say his bird was 1.9 out of breeding pen...most experienced breders will tell you (and those who have trained birds succesfully)The bird will fly at close to the "out of the breeding pen weight".My bird was 1.7 n a bit..went down to 1.5 3/4 and 'looked' low at that.Although i am not that experienced i'd still like spindle to seek other advice other than just drop the birds weight to get him doing things.Manning will fix a lot

[Takajo]

You'd be surprised what a difference 1.5 3/4 and 1.4 makes

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Mikey - My male harris hunted at 1lb 3oz in his first season - he would go self hunting at 1lb 5oz His weight out of the aviary at the beginning of the season was between 1lb 9oz and 1lb 11oz. He was completely scatty at that weight and only calmed down once he reached around 1lb 5oz.

Weight control is ESSENTIAL in small male harrises - the advise given about weight AND manning is sound.

[Wightwings]

agreed.

[Dave G]

he needs more manning if he was manned more he would he much more confident and would come to the fist with out any probs ,the weight of harris hawks can be any think as to 1lb 2 oz up to 1lb 12 oz thats a male so no 2 birds are the same but having a steady bird which is happy to be handled will feed and fly more competent so more manning

[Wightwings]

how is the bird now Spindle?.......did you cut out the jumps and concentrate on the manning??

[Takajo]

Try 1lb. 4 even and see.....................
From reading all the posts here, that seems to be where you want to be.
And call me in the morning

[Goran]

Did you let him feed on just a small peace of meat after you pee?LOL My male harris was 1.7 3/4 out of the breeders mews.He took 2 days to eat from the fist.(of wich he spent all of that 2 days with me...i got really good at going for a pee one handed!!)Once he fed i would put him on his bow perch in the garden,living room,Wherever for 5-10 minutes at a time n pic him back up.He had the dog round all the time.Once he ate off fist he had to step up,he wasn't allowed any food till he stepped up.Then he wasn't allowed any food till he jumped.Once he jumped he had to jump firther and further each time till he needed the creance,and was then flying free...in 9 days.But i would not have achieved this with 2 hours manning per day!...If you want some real advice..Ask HAWKMASTER...what he doesn't know aint worth knowing..Best of luck to you spindle

[Bird_Dog]

Manning and weight control is needed, but I suggest not worring about jumping to the fist. Rather train him to the lure and get him flying free as soon as possible. Things seem to sour with HH and RT if you don't get them on game right off.

-- BIRD_DOG