Training me m8s F redtail (HELP)

[HawkMan]

Hello All
Ive been helping me m8 train his female red tail .
Her weight when we started to bring her down was 3lb 5oz ,???
She,s now down to 2lb 12 and 1/4 oz ,the response has been slow and she seems asthough she,s only coming to keep her alive the guy we got her off said her hunting weght was 2lb 10 oz and she,s 7 years old now and been hunting since her first season ???/
what are we doing wrong ?????
Ive seen the bird hunt before and thought i could bring her weight down and all would be fine ????
Is she still over weight ????
The best response was on monday when she flew 40 metres ,the next few days after that she was slow ???
Can any one help as i think im messing up big time with me m8,s bird .
This is me second year into falconry and ive trained an african eagle owl and a male red ??????
Thanks
johnny :roll:

[Moses]

also speak to iamtheweasel

he knows alot about them birds

[HawkMan]

I feel a right fool lds i got me m red flying great last year and this happens ive thought she could still be over weight ??????
i just hope someone guides me in the right direction soon as her weight will be down an oz 2moro ?????/
Thanks
johnny

[MickeyDredd]

She,s now down to 2lb 12 and 1/4 oz ,the response has been slow and she seems asthough she,s only coming to keep her alive the guy we got her off said her hunting weght was 2lb 10 oz
johnny :roll:

Johnny she's still 2&1/4 oz overweight plus bear in mind that this weight was with someone she knew well. From what you say you and your mate are strangers to her so she wont be too keen at that extra weight with you guys, especially if you are both working on her.

I'd suggest you get her down to 2lb 10oz and then monitor response, once you are hunting with her she'll get the message, you may then manage to get her weight up a bit but don't count on it. I took on a 3 y-o FRT from a guy who used to fly her at 2lb 8oz and I now fly her at 2lb 12 at bunnies and 2lb 11 at hare so it can be done.

Mike

[ColdZero]

i know the feeling mate..i just persevered and only increased small amounts and something just clicked in her head and she got it.

[Sparrow Hawker]

Hi Johhny,

Personally I'd totally disregard the previous owners flying weight of the bird and concentrate on finding a new weight. She may still be overweight but it's a little tricky to tell in these situations.

If she's not responding go back a few paces and get her feeding comfortably on the fist and watch her response, once she's comfortable with that progress onwards keeping an eye on her and her response time and adjust the weight accordingly.

All The Best,

HH

[Wes]

Hi JohnnyB -you might concider to check the zero between the two scales used. I don't remember how long you had this bird or started manning bird back to hunting weight, it could take a few weeks depending on many variables, Be confident and Patient
good Hawking
Wes

[Gos212]

Ive flown Reds for the last 7 years and the 5yr old Female I have will have a go at anything at 1lb12 but she wouldnt jump the length of the leash when the missus offers her food at that weight.

As was previously said, ur strangers to her and she wud have to be made keener than the weight ur mate was flying her at. Or get her total trust at a fatter weight.

[Impster]

i gave a loan of my red to a bop center as for he was stuck for a hunting bird to take out hunting partys , i told the guy the birds hunting weight and yet when i got her back he had dropt the bird down 2oz past her hunting weight now i wasnt happy that he did that without asking me , he said he tryed her at the weight i told him but she just wouldnt respond ! i took her out and tryed her at that weight and she hunted like a demond but she also struck out at me a few times and got me the once in the face ! so i put her weight back upto her normal hunting weight and she was fine ! if you ask me your a stranger to the bird and she will need to be dropt in weight until she responds proper , and after that you can work on getting the weight back up , loads of manning would be a good idia to ........

[HawkMan]

Had the red out tonight and got a few short flites 3 at the most to 50 metres ??????
There was no response after that so we left her ,she weighed 2lb 11 oz and a 1/4 .
As i was walking back to the house with her she started to bait ,she just hung there upside down off me glove for a minute i tried to help her back up ,but she seemed knackered ?????
I helped the bird baclk on the glove she was unsteady ,so i gave her a chick to eat at my house .
I think we need to start from scratch ,ive told me m8 to feed her 3 doc 2moro and get small jumps to the glove for a week and we,ll start all over again ,ive also told him to spend atleast an hour each night manning her up to gain trust .
Why was she like this tonight has she been brought down to fast ,i thought if the birds been flown before it only takes a few days to get her free.
Thanks
Johnny

[Gos212]

Hi Johnny,

I dont think her behaviour was purely down to a weight issue, I think its probably more down to defiance !

Mine is in her sixth season now and I get that behaviour too, but she usually starts it when she's when I'm dropping her weight and she's around the 3lb mark. Ive noticed each year she gets worse for it, almost like she can't be ar*ed ! Then one day everything falls into place and she's away. Wish I knew wot it was that triggers it, up to that point she seems very defiant. Just a female Red I suppose !

I think its a good idea for you to gain her trust and raise her weight, so far she only knows you as the one thats been droppin her weight !


Good luck

[Hawkmaster]

MOVED FROM THE BROADWING SECTION?

[Debbie]

Hey Johnny,

You and me both helping mates out with their female Red tails :roll: :D And both about the same size too 8) This will be her 3rd season so she too has done it all before and personally I disagree with those that say this makes it easier I don''t think this helps much at all as she knows what I want from her and she just knows she does not have to do it except in her own sweet time and I love her all the more for it :lol: But with Garry's leg in plaster we are in no rush :roll:

As Gos212 said you need to gain her trust. She hardly knows either of you. I am also of the train of thought that who gives a monkees how long others take to get their bird up I would rather take 3 times longer and have a steadier bird for the extra time spent.

Plus each bird is totally individual. What the previous owner said he flew my lady at means absolutely nothing as scales differ quite considerably as do birds with changes in circumstances and as Garry is her new owner and it is such a mild guideline we need to find her weight with him.

So maybe starting a few steps back is a good idea.

Get your mate and yourself just manning her she will be better for it - you know the routine you have done it with your two birds already.

I sat with my lady outside her mews for 2 to 5 hours everyday for the first week just reading to her even in the rain one of the days as she stayed in her weathering bit so I thought if she dont mind the rain neither do I as i like the rain as it makes my hair go all soft and extra curly :roll: although the book got very soggy :lol: It paid off first day she gingerly let me get her on the glove no bateing until Garrys neighbour shouted over the fence and I went to pieces as did she and I really could of throttled the neighbour for shouting "coooey" :twisted:

I still read to her everyday before we start our training for about 15 mins we sit in Garry's conservatry it is abit of quality quiet time for the two of us just to get re-aquainted again as I am not her owner - it works for us, she really is a special bird and I am so greatful my first experience is with such a patient and clever bird, whether it's just her I don't know but I guess I will find out over time hopefully.

Good luck Johnny I myself will be posting a couple of questions and my lady and I have other problems :roll:

Debbs xxx

[Dave G]

hi johnny ive had my female red about 6 months got her off a chap who said she was at fat weight 3lb 4oz and very steady i had her about a month and got her weight up some more 3lb 10 oz still very steady ,this chap wondererd how i got her weight so high as he couldnt get her over 3lb 4 oz he also said her hunting weight is 2lb 8 oz but will wait and see as i will start from scratch at a new flying weight not go by his ive got her flying on the creance at about 25 foot at 3lb 7 oz just for some exercize but she gets a whole chick each flight so is very happy to come in the next few weeks end of moult will slowly drop her weight and see how she comes ,so as you can see what works for one owner does not always work for another as reds are head strong and need alot longer to bond with their owners so take your time

[Coedhirion]

As i was walking back to the house with her she started to bait ,she just hung there upside down off me glove for a minute i tried to help her back up ,but she seemed knackered ?????
I helped the bird baclk on the glove she was unsteady ,so i gave her a chick to eat at my house .
If your bringing the birds weight down, which sounds the correct thing to do, 3 flights at 50 mtrs is quite a lot for an unfit & possibly stressed bird (if it dosnt know you well) Don't know what your feeding, but you could try small amounts of rat or quail. Will give that bit more energy !

[HawkMan]

Thanks for the replies guys and girls ,me m8s just took him off for a wek to build up more trust and get a bit of weight back on her ,
we,ll be starting next week so ill keep you all informed .
Cheers
Johnny

[HawkMan]

Speaking to me m8 tonight and he phoned the guy he got him off ,the guy said use a big rabbit leg to get him to come to him ,lol?????
I think the birds been trained from the start to come to big feeds ,in the field the birds going to be shxt ?????
Whats our next step ,should we do more manning ?????
Im stumped lads as my male red was a doddle to this bitch ,pmsl
Any replies of help would be a god send .
Thanks
johnny

[Dave G]

looks like you will need a bigger hawking bag so you can fetch out a shoulder of mutton to call her back lol ,all the bird needs is to make a bond feel at ease with its owner start off with a whole chick shown on the fist at about 10-15 feet when the bird comes let her have half and pull the rest away do this untill the last chick then let her have the last one whole she will soon come, ive always shown my birds a full chick but they only get what i want then to pull at,once her weights down to flying weight she will come for a chick leg or in your case an ostrich leg :lol: :wink:

[MickeyDredd]

when the bird comes let her have half and pull the rest away do this untill the last chick then let her have the last one whole she will soon come

i would personally never pull food away from a female red tail, it could make them very protective of their food and aggressive when on the glove which you do not want!. Although they are not the brightest of birds they will soon work out what you are doing which is robbing them of their food. If it takes a large chunk of food to get her to fly to you then that is the risk/reward ratio for her, you then need to work on reducing that ratio rather than stealing food from her.

Just my opinion.

[Dave G]

hi mickey i dont rob my bird of food i show her a full chick and she had half of it then she goes off and comes for the next lot, i wouldnt rob a redtail by showing food and when came give a chick leg as why bother coming thats what you would get, my female is flying 25 foot at 12 oz over flying weight thats for a full chick like you say i slowly reduce the weight and the reward portions

[MickeyDredd]

Hi RHH

Sorry if I misunderstood but your post said that you pull the rest away. Do you hide the other half so she cant see it? that would make more sense cos I cant believe a RT would voluntarily go back to the post if there was still food visible on the glove.

My FRT also flies a similar distance at a very fat weight, they seem to approach it with the view that if it is feeding time they will fly for food despite the weight. My goal is then to get her hunting at as high a weight as possible whereas I know some people have to fly them razor sharp which I dont understand.

Her previous owner flew her at 2lb 8oz, I now fly her (after 3 years) at 2lb 12oz and have hunted her at 2lb 15.5 oz and she chased bunnies and came out of trees no problem at that weight, but prefer her at 2lb 12oz she is pure redtail - will chase anything that moves!! :lol:

[Dave G]

hi mickey sounds like youve got my bird as the same ive had mine off a chap who hunted her a 2lb 8 oz im hoping to fly her a touch higher , with the food thing i show her on the top of the glove a full chick with it held by the head in the other hand when shes on the fist i pull it down a touch so she gets halk of it and the other half ends up in my hand which see carnt see then flys back to the perch shes quite happy to do this as the last flight she does get the whole chick :wink:

[Flying High]

Hi i am new to the forum but i would like to say i have worked with lots of bird or the years and i would like to agree with Harris Hawker. Let the bird tell you its right flying weight. As long as the bird is not under weight and under condition and is healthy let the bird tell you its own wieght. (it will hunt will it feels at the right weight) The only thing i will say is that i have come across lots of people who think that because the bird as flowen for someone els the don't put in the manning hours. As long asd you have done this let the bird tell you when it is ready to hunt.
All the best and good luck