Xylazine

[OhMyGod]

Hi

I am after the dosage of 'Xylazine' needed to render my bird inactive whilst doing new work when taking out the moult. I will need about half an hour to fit a tail mount, backpack mount, coping, new anklets and general check for any abnormalities that might be present.

Also if someone has the knowledge of prices I should be looking at from the vet to purchase the syringe and Xylazine solution this too would be useful so I don't get ripped off.

thanks to anyone with the knowledge to give the correct information.

[BFC 007]

should you be giving the bird it yourself if you have no clue as to what dosage etc??? or have i got it wrong and the vet is administering the jab???

[OhMyGod]

I have injected birds with antibiotics and various other injections before and found it very easy to do with a hooded bird. I have heard that Xylazine is extremely usefull as the bird remains standing instead of lying down during the hour or so of imobilisation. I have a dosage given to me by a vet in the USA who does not really deal with raptors and I would like to hear from someone who knows the correct dosage so I can double check the dosages I have hear, just to be on the safe side.

If I received a dosage from someone who has used it and it were the same as the dosage I have now it would make me feel safer than I am at the moment. I am quite sure this is the best way forward for me instead of freaking out my bird before training has even started, however I know vets can make mistakes, even more so when they are not really avian vets and so I intend to double or triple check all information regarding injections of this nature. Bear in bind 007 that once I have purchased the solution I can use it time and time again and it will be extremely advantageous and cost effective only if administered by myself.

[Hawkmaster]

I have not used it ever to do all the above and personally am affraid to dabble in things I do not know, but it would be interesting to find out I will also enquire for you.

[OhMyGod]

thanks HM.

Perhaps it does sound a bit dodgy on an open forum and I can fully understand where 007 is coming from but I really think that xylazine is beneficiall and will be seen more and more in the future.

[Dude]

if I understand it correctly Xylazine is used 2 calm down a bird?

if yes I will not use it and agree with HM, all the natural way!

[OhMyGod]

cool

each to their own dude

it may prove more usefull to the accipiter flyers.

[Saker-Clive]

You could ask Sprout or Rabbithawker, they're both vets!!!!!

[OhMyGod]

in case anyone is interested.....

Whilst talking elsewhere, I have found a good link to information concerning xylazine, and for the exact requirements of me and my needs. Attatching the backpack mount! This was my problem, attatching the backpack mount the natural way was for me looking pretty impossible single handed and would have been a nighmare resulting in a ****ed off bird, and me.

I can not put a direct link due to java, but if you go hear

http://www.marshallradio.com/falconry/fproducts_accessories.asp

scroll down to trackpack mount system click on installation instructions and go to pages 7 8 9 you will see the advantages for this drug and the difficulty without it.

I would like to hear peoples views on this if you have time. I have been chatting to people who have used this method with good results, so this may be usefull to any of you who have concerns fitting the backpack or other equiptment.

I can see the benefits with many birds all being tail mounted or jessed up together as they will all sit there letting you do whatever whilst rendered immobilised.

[Talib]

OhMyGod wrote:
I can see the benefits with many birds all being tail mounted or jessed up together as they will all sit there letting you do whatever whilst rendered immobilised.

Hey, just sounds like getting a few ladies "roached"...
(Using Rohypnol on the fairer sex to non-Londoners)

Talib

[OhMyGod]

lol

like I said, each to their own

[Talib]

OhMyGod wrote:

I can see the benefits with many birds all being tail mounted or jessed up together as they will all sit there letting you do whatever whilst rendered immobilised.


Hey, just sounds like getting a few ladies "roached"...
(Using Rohypnol on the fairer sex to non-Londoners)

Talib

Although including "tail-mounting" is more likely to mean the Brighton scene...

Talib

[Hawkmaster]

it may prove more usefull to the accipiter flyers.
I have back packed a Sparrow Hawk, Harrises, A couple of Gosses and Falcons and they all sit fine and the fit is good once you get a feel for doing it right. Give it ago first and then make you mind up.

[Bird_Dog]

I've used Xylazine on rodent in the laboratory. It's a powerful and deap anesthetic. It suppresses respiriation and is not as safe as ketamine. The Marshall Telemetry website showing the mounting of the Back pack treats the use of Xylazine rather cavalier. I would use Xylazine in the presence of a vet who has drugs that can reverse the anesthetic. Why not use Isoflorane. There's a rapid recovery with no adverse effects. Better safe than sorry when using power drugs on birds.

--BIRD_DOG

[Dude]

sum of my friends used ketamine hidrochloride for themselfes lol they looked like zombies when they snuff sum of it lol

[Bird_Dog]

Special "K" is a hallucogenic drug related to LSD. When coming out of ansethesia there are unplesant hallucinations, so it's not used on people. Vets use it for surgery like spaying cats.... if you have ever seen a cat coming off of ketamine they have a psyched out look in their eyes.

-- BIRD_DOG

[Dude]

lol what do they see than under the influence of it :rolleyes: an accipiter get a heart attack coz the hallucinations :shock:

but seriously; these hallucinations dont hurt an animal? I mean they cant get a shock coz of them? or they simply dont have enough brain to realize whats happening?!

[Bird_Dog]

It's best to place the bird on the floor in darken area of a room (not completely dark tho. They tend to flap about and wobble during the first stages of recovery. My guess is they feel vunerable and fearful. Keeping it dark prevents limits stimulation and being on the floor gives more secure footing and balance. Once they've collected themselves then it's ok to pick them up on the glove. The low dose suggested shouldn't knock them out completely. On a side note birds like the Cedar Waxwing like to eat fermented berries which causes them to become drunk.

-- BIRD_DOG

[Sprout]

Xylazine should only be administered by a vet in a surgery in case problems occur. It is a very potent drug with serious side effects and can EASILY be fatal. You also make no mention of using the reversing agent either? It would be far safer to take it to a vets and use isoflurane if it needs to be anaesthetised to equip it. This is much safer, far quicker recovery and easier to monitor.

[OhMyGod]

thanks for the input sprout, but how much should I be thinking of paying a vet to do this? Is it relativly cheap?

[Sprout]

Ask around, get quotes. Shouldn't be expensive if that is what you want but I personally wouldn't touch xylazine with a barge pole, there are much safer alternatives. Also find someone with experience with bird anaesthetic monitoring - it is not the same as for a cat or dog

[Hawkmaster]

Just rang a local vet and asked if they would quote for doing the job and after everyone panicing, they came back with we will have to get back to you after 11am

[Hawkmaster]

Ok they got back and they will use Isoflurane gas and it will cost £40 plus VAT.

I think I will stick to the way I do it now! :lol:

[Talib]

thanks for the input sprout, but how much should I be thinking of paying a vet to do this? Is it relativly cheap?

Why bother... it doesn't make any sense to catch a bird up, drag it off to the vets just to tail mount, backpack mount, cope, and fit new anklets.
You could have done all the above by the time you walk through the vet surgery doors with the bird... for the same amount of stress incurred.
Of course, you could get the vet to do a home visit and fork out some serious money... you could even request the vet to fire a tranquilising dart into your bird to save it the stress of being caught up!

Talib

[OhMyGod]

ok thanks everyone for your input.

But there is absolutely no way this bird will let me put a backpack on.

She is extremely aggressive and will make it impossible, and I dont think it's possible to do whilst casted.

My original inquiry into xylazine was that I had been told by a vet in usa that I could just buy some and do one simple injection rendering my bird imobilized for about an hour whilst I do the work, sounded really simple but I was led to beleive it was safe with the correct dosage, then I was given a link to marshall in my earlier post which also seemed to think it was safe and made it look extremely easy and beneficial.

yes I will try and hood her up and put the backpack on, but don't I need her to be still. Just not going to happen with this perticular bird. She was always slipped from the hood daily and has become aggressive with the hood on getting exited whenever she is hooded beating her wings hard, getting really tight reathered and if I unhood her with no slip she can be footy and biting the glove. If hooded with a full crop she still seems to be a real bitch and changing jesses can be really awkward with this one.

She is an aggressive bitch.

[Talib]

[QUOTE=
yes I will try and hood her up and put the backpack on, but don't I need her to be still. Just not going to happen with this perticular bird. [/QUOTE]

Catch the falcon up, hood it, hold it like the pigeon-fanciers hold their birds... legs, wings and tail in one hand... rest the falcon's chest on a cushion... then do all the jobs you need to do with the other hand.

The only job you have listed that cannot be done properly one-handed is filing/coping the beak... just wrap the bird in a cloth for this.

Talib

PS get yourself a tame pigeon and repeatedly practice tackling it up one-handed until you get good at it... then do the falcon.

[Kornie]

I understand your motives though OMG, there is nothing like equiping a skittish bird that wont have it.