Aylmerii & Jess Pictures

[Hawkmaster]

I thought it would be a cool idea to show new people to falconry how we make our equipment.

Before pictures and on the bird ones would be ideal, but just on your hawk will do.

This will help others and keep your gear safe if by some small chance things may not be safe.

Keep it HELPFUL and COURTEOUS people! :wink:

[Hawkmaster]

Here is a diagram I knocked up!

Hope it helps someone!

Paul

[Moses]

HM awesome diagram if thats how u spell it :D

[Talib]

Here is a diagram I knocked up!

Hope it helps someone!

Paul

So... according to the diagram a merlin needs to have the same length of jesses as a goldie???

Surely the length of the jesses are related to the size of the bird they are fitted to... NOT the size of the falconers hand???

Talib

[Hawkmaster]

There you go I added two words, happy now? :lol:

[TiercelR]

-Hawkmaster: Thats is good idea!
-Have you some images on DIY blocks, perches & braided equipment? Thank you.
-Have good falconry!

[Talib]

There you go I added two words, happy now? :lol:

Not really... there is a very simple formula for calculating the ideal length of jesses for any raptor... and it has absolutely nothing to do with the size of the falconers hand.

Its more to do with what's comfortable and safe for the bird rather than convenient for the falconer.

Talib

[Hawkmaster]

Talib, I tolerate a lot on this forum, but your constant nit picking and critical posts are getting on everyone tits!

You never offer any help to falconers BUT instead just look for faults.

I have never told anyone this on this forum before. Change your obviously superior ways or P I S S O F F!

[Talib]

Talib, I tolerate a lot on this forum, but your constant nit picking and critical posts are getting on everyone tits!

You never offer any help to falconers BUT instead just look for faults.

I have never told anyone this on this forum before. Change your obviously superior ways or P I S S O F F!

Tut, tut, obviously the "Keep it HELPFUL and COURTEOUS people!" on your first post of this thread does not appear to apply to you...

Why don't you just admit you don't know how to work out the best size of jesses for a particular bird and leave it at that.

Talib

[Hawkmaster]

Oh and you obviously do and every post you make is to attack members, not help or share the info.

As I said before help or offer it or get lost!

[Talib]

Oh and you obviously do and every post you make is to attack members, not help or share the info.

As I said before help or offer it or get lost!

Fair enough... which parts of falconry do you need help with???

Talib

[Moritz]

Hi,
Talib pls tell me as I do not know and would like to know.

Thx

Moritz

[Talib]

Hi,
Talib pls tell me as I do not know and would like to know.

Thx

Moritz

The length of the jesses (measured from the inside end of the swivel slit to the base of the button - which is the practical length of the jess when in use) should be the equal to the length of the hawk/falcon's tarsometatarsus x 2.

Using this length of jess ensures that when the falcon is at rest and it tucks its foot up into its breast feathers, the swivel rests on the block at the side of the falcon's supporting foot, therefore the falcon is only supporting the weight of the single jess on its upraised foot when it is sleeping or relaxed when in the mews or weathering.

- If the jesses are longer, the swivel hangs over the edge of the block or shelf perch and the falcon has to support upon its raised leg, in addition to the weight of the jess, the weight of the swivel, other jess, and the whole of the non-supported length of the leash.

- If the jesses are shorter the swivel is lifted off the surface of the block/perch and this extra weight has to be supported by the falcon's raised leg, along with the weight of some of the other jess and leash.

Talib

[Saker-Clive]

Merlin, Kestrel, Sparrowhawk (and the like) mews jess= 5" Flying jess= 6"

Lanner, Lugger, Tiercel etc. mews jess= 7" Flying jess= 8"

CB, RT, HH, medium large Falcons etc. mews jess= 8" Flying jess= 9"

These measurements are approx. according to the size of the perch being used. The measurement is also taken from the underside of the button.

I personally don't use removable flying jesses but fit permenant ones attached below the eyelet. I find that if ever the eyelet did come apart the flying jess would still hold the anklet in place:finga:

[Saker-Clive]

The length of the jesses (measured from the inside end of the swivel slit to the base of the button - which is the practical length of the jess when in use) should be the equal to the length of the hawk/falcon's tarsometatarsus x 2.

Using this length of jess ensures that when the falcon is at rest and it tucks its foot up into its breast feathers, the swivel rests on the block at the side of the falcon's supporting foot, therefore the falcon is only supporting the weight of the single jess on its upraised foot when it is sleeping or relaxed when in the mews or weathering.

- If the jesses are longer, the swivel hangs over the edge of the block or shelf perch and the falcon has to support upon its raised leg, in addition to the weight of the jess, the weight of the swivel, other jess, and the whole of the non-supported length of the leash.

- If the jesses are shorter the swivel is lifted off the surface of the block/perch and this extra weight has to be supported by the falcon's raised leg, along with the weight of some of the other jess and leash.

Talib

A hawk must be bloody good to get the swivel to rest on a bow perch with its foot tucked up; there isn't enough area space for a swivel to rest on it:!:

[North East Harris Hawker]

The length of the jesses (measured from the inside end of the swivel slit to the base of the button - which is the practical length of the jess when in use) should be the equal to the length of the hawk/falcon's tarsometatarsus x 2.

Using this length of jess ensures that when the falcon is at rest and it tucks its foot up into its breast feathers, the swivel rests on the block at the side of the falcon's supporting foot, therefore the falcon is only supporting the weight of the single jess on its upraised foot when it is sleeping or relaxed when in the mews or weathering.

- If the jesses are longer, the swivel hangs over the edge of the block or shelf perch and the falcon has to support upon its raised leg, in addition to the weight of the jess, the weight of the swivel, other jess, and the whole of the non-supported length of the leash.

- If the jesses are shorter the swivel is lifted off the surface of the block/perch and this extra weight has to be supported by the falcon's raised leg, along with the weight of some of the other jess and leash.

Talib

talib, if your gonna measure your birds toes, then take the height of the block from the ground into the equasion/block diameter etc,your only going to confuse those newer to the sport, i doubt everyone gets the slide rule out when it comes to making jess. Lets try and keep this in perspective. pauls diagram is fine, ive been in the sport long enough to know. there are no hard and fast rules in this game but i have found that the shorter you can make the jess (and still be able to handle the bird correctly) the better.
you may choose to go into massive detail with your own birds, this is fine but please dont sneer down your nose at others who make their equipment from older books etc. i use the templates from glasiers book. ok they may be dated but they work for me and many others. think hard before you make a dig at this mans input to falconry his book is mine and many others "bible"
we all like a bit of a laugh but lets bring this dig to a draw now. critiscism is one thing but no-one likes a smart arse.

[Moritz]

Thx talib.

[Talib]

talib, if your gonna measure your birds toes...

Who said anything about measuring the bird's toes???

If you cannot read what I write then there seems little point in carrying on this discussion with you...

Anybody else see "toes" anywhere in my post???

Talib

PS HM makes jesses that fit his hand size, SS makes jesses that fit his perch sizes and I make jesses that fit the size of the birds leg. I wonder what measurements they use for making hoods... I measure the bird's head... of course that may be too technical for some...

Talib

[Hawkmaster]

The reason I make a jesses for my hawks according to the size of my hand is it makes it easier to handle out in the field. But if you are not going to flyi it they yes the block is of bigger concern. With falcons it goes without saying they must not be too long so the block can be straddled.

I personally like your reasoning Talib, but if my hawk can't handle lift a leash and swivel, connecting with quarry would just be asking to much.

Don't take what I have said personally, I am sure someone has found it useful, and I thanks you for making an intellent and thoughtful contribution.

[Moses]

Merlin, Kestrel, Sparrowhawk (and the like) mews jess= 5" Flying jess= 6"

Lanner, Lugger, Tiercel etc. mews jess= 7" Flying jess= 8"

CB, RT, HH, medium large Falcons etc. mews jess= 8" Flying jess= 9"

These measurements are approx. according to the size of the perch being used. The measurement is also taken from the underside of the button.

I personally don't use removable flying jesses but fit permenant ones attached below the eyelet. I find that if ever the eyelet did come apart the flying jess would still hold the anklet in place:finga:


yes clive even posted me a set, awesome stuff and awesome idea indeed mate:)

[North East Harris Hawker]

should be the equal to the length of the hawk/falcon's tarsometatarsus x 2......

Talib


tarsometatarsus= "A compound bone between the tibia and the toes of a bird's leg, formed by fusion of the tarsal and metatarsal bones."

thats close enough to toes for me kiddo, but perhaps if you didnt know this its pointless continuing this discussion with you....?

[Talib]

tarsometatarsus= "A compound bone between the tibia and the toes of a bird's leg, formed by fusion of the tarsal and metatarsal bones."

thats close enough to toes for me kiddo...


The tarsometatarsus is the bone that the anklets go around...
So you would call that a toe???

Talib

PS The tibia is the next bone up the leg - above the "hock" joint.

[North East Harris Hawker]

yes i'd call that a toe rag

[Talib]

yes i'd call that a toe rag

Guess I should have never expected anything better...

What can one expect from a guy who's not even sure where he is... Teesside or London?

Talib

[Tanith]

What a shame that a thread that is informative and relevant has turned into ,yet again, a silly squable.

Keep up the good work hawkmaster. I certainly found it very intereting and I am sure a lot of other members did too.

[Bash]

PS HM makes jesses that fit his hand size, SS makes jesses that fit his perch sizes and I make jesses that fit the size of the birds leg. I wonder what measurements they use for making hoods... I measure the bird's head... of course that may be too technical for some...

Talib

I like to measure my birds wings. I use pye and work out the wing beat circumference of all my birds. I then trim the wings tips off with scissors if they are too long. This stops me being whacked around the head when I cast them off. It's also a good idea to measure the tail in conjunction with the perch that you use. You may find it benefical to stand the bird on the ground and trim off any excess tail feather that is touching the floor. This will aid in the prevention of tail feather damage. Working this out may be a bit technical so mail me if you require help at smeghead@smmmmmegggheeeeaadd.co.uk
;)
;)
;)

[Saker-Clive]

Is that pye R squared or pie and mash? :supz:

[OutFlying]

I prefer to have the mews jesses longer, to provide clearance when fitted with the swivel - not to ride up straight through the hawks tail feathers and wreck the tail when bating off the bow perch. The leash is bad enough when catching the feathers but the swivel will do more damage. I always use a tail sheath but when the hawk takes a bathe this isn't possible.

Only my preference.

Yours Jim.

[Bird_Dog]

This is an interesting thread....with it's debate on proper lenght and all. There seems to be a difference of opinion about jesses. Compared to the books and general descriptions, I was taught to use a much shorter jess. But that's possible because I'm not trying to hold a bird on the fist. Imtheweasel showed me a hawking video from the UK where the jesses were really long. The local bird rehabers here in Texas like using the long jess as well. I got an earfull last winter when I flew in Montana with jesses on my gryxperegrine. Jesses attract the attention of wild eagles and prairie falcons, so falconers remove the jesses on longwings. The debate here seems to be only with hawk jesses. I learned flying my first RT that long jesses can wrap around a small branch.

As far as design, most seem to fold the leather very widely to form the button and punch a hole through the center. An alternative is roll (or very short folds) the end and make a slit instead of a hole. This makes a very hard button that spins more easily on the grommet. Just an alternative design. We pick on each others equipment over here as much as over there.

--BIRD_DOG

[Mary Quite Contrary]

The length of the jesses (measured from the inside end of the swivel slit to the base of the button - which is the practical length of the jess when in use) should be the equal to the length of the hawk/falcon's tarsometatarsus x 2.

Using this length of jess ensures that when the falcon is at rest and it tucks its foot up into its breast feathers, the swivel rests on the block at the side of the falcon's supporting foot, therefore the falcon is only supporting the weight of the single jess on its upraised foot when it is sleeping or relaxed when in the mews or weathering.

- If the jesses are longer, the swivel hangs over the edge of the block or shelf perch and the falcon has to support upon its raised leg, in addition to the weight of the jess, the weight of the swivel, other jess, and the whole of the non-supported length of the leash.

- If the jesses are shorter the swivel is lifted off the surface of the block/perch and this extra weight has to be supported by the falcon's raised leg, along with the weight of some of the other jess and leash.

Talib


a well written answer , good darts