harris hawk the beginner bird

[welshhawk2005]

hello everyone i have trained a female red tail and i am current training a male harris hawk myself i think a female red tail was easier to train and a lot less noise i was wondering other people views i did have the female red when she was only 17 weeks old i know this make a lot of different

[HarrisHawk.1.]

i would go for male harris hawk as first bird easy to train and you will get a lot of excitement out of em as there fast,brave

[Dave G]

hi wh2005 so wheres the red now have you still got it, ive got a male harris first bird then i had me a female red think the harris hawk is a much safer bird as the first bird,noise can be an issue with the harris but it can be though many different reasons as mine is silent in the garden silent on the fist vocal when stick him in travel box the abit vocal for about 5 minutes when out unless gets a chase then thats it silent i put that down to excitement but thats my thought

[welshhawk2005]

i found my frt a bit footy to start with but after the intial training she was fine and she was such a aggresive hunter unlike the male harris that i have now but the speed on the male harris god damn he fast as for killer the female red tail she died whist chasing a rabbit

[Xantara]

where in wales r u m8

xan

[welshhawk2005]

the sunny side of skewen near neath

[Xantara]

Sunny side like that you all have the steel horizon. Was a patron at the Gnoll fo 10 yrs but no longer. Am just 30 mins away maybe we could meet up.

So what you keep down there in the doom and gloom m8

xan

[MickeyDredd]

the female red tail she died whist chasing a rabbit

Did she hit something or did she just keel over?

[Dave Whitt]

The choice between female Red and Male HH would have to depend largley on the intended quarry and the countryside , if is was to be rabbit in open fields then the Red may be better equipped to handle large rabbits on a regular basis, (I`m not saying a male harris cant take be rabbits befor anyone shouts at me) but if flying in woodland the harris would be smaller and more manoverable, why not compramise and fly a female harris ?

[welshhawk2005]

i only have the male harris he doing very well

[Coedhirion]

Oh boy !!! why dos every one say the Harris is a beginners bird, as tho you have to move on to something better when you know a bit more !!! Yes the Harris allows you to make more mistakes and get away with it, but give a good Harris to a good falconer and you have something very special. Read Martin Hollinshead, he puts it better !!!! :roll::roll:

[Coedhirion]

awww I done it I found the smilies :roll::supz:

[Wightwings]

not read thro many of the posts the title of this thread is enough to tell me this forum is really going to *****.........the HH is NOT a beginners bird......puit it in the right hands and the complex character and little foybals that make it what it is come out.....it will forgive some mistakes but it is NOT a goddam begginers bird.......

[Dave G]

agree ww where ever the saying harris hawks are easy is **** they are an intellegent bird which in the wrong hands can be made **** just like any other bird of prey,please stop stating the begginers bird the harris hawk as this is not the case its the goss :)

[OutFlying]

It could be a goss or a peregrine - as long as you do your homework beforehand.

[Wightwings]

i dont believ there is such a bird is my point.......its very easy to pigeon hole a bird because of its forgiving nature etc etc but i feel its a very dangerous route to go down using this term.........it opens the floodgates to dib dobs who think there is nothing to the art of producing a hunting bird.........oohh its a BEGINNERS bird it must be easy.........winds me up

or its just me being too tetchy:drinkers:

[Dave G]

i aggree ww there is no such bird as the begginers bird what ever bird a novice wants should be taken on board gain good knowledge and welfare of the required bird then go on a course to learn all that is needed so the bird can be manned trained and flown in the correct way without any danger to the bird and the falconer

[OutFlying]

The harris hawk has become the easiest and cheapest to obtain - not to be confused with the beginners hawk...................................

Not many beginners when they were £1000+, I wonder why this has now changed ??????????????????????????????????????????

[Dave G]

as everyones out to make a quick few hundred quid ouch ouch,:( fly them for a year then onto breeding and bang sell them and make a few quid :(

[Wightwings]

you know thats a blummin good point OF............have a look in the IBR tonight you can get a second clutch for naff all!!!!!!!!!

perhaps it should be .....HH the cheap forgiving bird!!!!!???..kill or lose one get another..........two for the price of one........

right me hobby horse has gone lame and me soap box had broke.....off to bed.....lol

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Hmmm....yes.....back when common buzzards were actually available to buy for £100 or so

I noticed common buzzards 'go out of fashion' as a beginners bird to be replaced by the redtail, which seems a reasonable swap. But then in crept the harris as the 'best' beginners hawk, just as prices started to drop...

Does anyone breed common buzzards anymore? They are about as easy to find as kessies these days!!

FHF

[FlameHairedFalconer]

you know thats a blummin good point OF............have a look in the IBR tonight you can get a second clutch for naff all!!!!!!!!!

perhaps it should be .....HH the cheap forgiving bird!!!!!???..kill or lose one get another..........two for the price of one........


I think that is already happening, sadly enough (for the poor harrises, not the numptys who buy em'!)

FHF

[welshhawk2005]

no i think you have taken what i said the wrong way i was just trying to point out i found the red tail easier to train than the harris hawk and mickey dredd she hit a wire fence not just keel over

[Dave Whitt]

Very good points have been made by all that everyone who want to fly a hawk needs to do there homework etc, etc but don`t you agree that the HH is an ideal all round bird either as a "first bird" or for an experianced falconer.
In my opinion a HH is ideal as a first bird because the falconer won`t outgrow it in 12 months, and stand less chance of loosing it or killing it than they would with a Gos, Spar, Merlin etc

[Wightwings]

i cmpletely agree JB.......i know its only terminology.......(wow big word with hangover)..first bird is sooo much better that beginners......yes and totally because of their many many attributes and versatility they are a superb bird to have and quite forgiving in a lot of cases.........

[Tim Laycock]

We owe a lot to the redtail.
They have put a lot of ********s off falconry, If you have not got the skill to manage a redtail you should not be practicing this sport in my opinion.

The americans realise this and fair play to them.

[Dave Whitt]

We owe a lot to the redtail.
They have put a lot of ********s off falconry, If you have not got the skill to manage a redtail you should not be practicing this sport in my opinion.

The americans realise this and fair play to them.
Harsh BB but true.

[Coedhirion]

R T's should be the first bird in UK as I believe they are in USA, then the Harris' would stand a better chance of finding a falconer to fly them properly. Not a twit who bought one from his mate and wonders why people weigh them and what they should feed them....Grrrrrr it makes me mad. Bring in some scheme in UK like they have in USA ..A.S.AP. They ban foxhunting, but you can murder what you like with a gun and keep some poor BOP in foul conditions for as long as the poor thing lasts, or the morons get bored showing the thing off to their mates...sorry to rabbit on.. going to murder bunny with my Hawks tomorrow :supz:

[Dave Whitt]

Good words, Coehirion, maybe not just a redtail as a first bird but the idea of an aprentice scheme or some form of qualification needs to be in place, it could be run by falconry center`s or clubs, but the same thing applies to all exotic creatures, reptiles, spiders etc hundreds of people buy them every year without the correct knowledge and either kill them or just let them go !
However dont we think that the breeders should be more aware of who they are selling the birds too, I know a lot of back garden breeders who just breed a few Harris Hawks each year to make a bit extra on the side will sell them to just about anyone with a couple of hundred quid in there hand.

[Matt]

im not alone in thinking that the harris is not the best bigginers bird . loads of people seem to feel the same as me. personal i wopuld favor a saker ! they are though nice to handle and train . versitile ,pritty in colour , agressive when hunting , and make good lure birds. the options for style of fligfht are pritty broad to . of the fist, weighting on ,following on , lamping, ect ect . the price is very good to making them the same money to lay out as a harris . flying weights are almost the same to.
i had my first traine this summer (not easy for my ) he started with you guessed it a saker . it all went pritty well untill he lost it . BUT it was nothing to do with the type of bird or where or what he was flying it he just ballsed up a simlpe fist feeding and the bird got away it was in his garden 10 feet from the block.
this bird hooded , did ok passes to the lure was very very tame with his owner . his flying weight was 1.8.5/8 and would hve been entered if the guy could deside what type of hunting he wanted to do with him.
ok iv gone on long enough . but why is this bird not considered more as a biginers bird ?????
my first saker tought me loads and the feeling of flying him in true style was un beatable.
all the best matt

[Sparrow Hawker]

Majority of people tend to start off with a Harris myself included, the Harris is just too good thats where the problem lies. It's made falconry more accessible on one hand but on the other being labelled as beginners birds in conjunction with there low price does on occaisions attract people who shouldn't be in the sport.

All The Best,

HH

[Matt]

true but thats a pritty stock answer these days .
there is a massive falconry population these days the forum is only a very tiny proportion .
bird clearance is very popular , falconry deplays are every where . the internet is very dence and contains huge amounts of links and info on falconry . all the above will and do push the harris into the public eye a little more each year.
im not sure its the price of harris hawks or the birds at all that are the problem . its just that the world is getting smaller , falconry is used as a tool alot more and abused by profesional and bigginers alike .
this thread is way of point again becoming about polatics and negative feed back . the world is a **** place there is unpleasant people where ever you look , its that way it all ways will be .
but untill we as falconers join to geather and partition for legal requirments to own and breed birds , practise falconry and work to wards a licencing scheme are we not at biggest fault ????
if we cant self govern then why are we any better than any other body of fanatics ?
to stand by idaly and continue to be aware with out action we are at fault and should be ashamed of our selfs.
all the best matt

ps harris as a bigginers bird . that was the topic sorry

[Dave Whitt]

Matt, with referance to your last but one post,

Firstly why was`nt the bird secured to the fist when being fed up ? secondly if it had been a harris or a redtail the chances are he would have recovered the bird if it was to the stage of flying free, because the likleyhood is the bird would not have flown far probabally to the nearest tree, roof top or fence post.

You asked the question why not a saker, well most people start with hawks because they are easier to flly, if you get the weight wrong ie the your harris is birds 20g overweight but you decide to give it a go it is likley to sit in a tree for an hour and make you look a prat in front of everyone watching, a falcon of any type is more far likley to disapear into the distance especially if it is a game hawk. Another mistake i noticed in yout post you wrote "would hve been entered if the guy could deside what type of hunting he wanted to do with him." this decision should be made long befor you buy the bird, and usually depends on the time you have to fly the bird, the type of ground you have to fly the bird on and the type of quarry you wish to catch with the bird.