beakproblem

[Gunther]

Saturday I taked my falcon out of his aviary for starting the manning again and when I put hem on his block I noticed his beack was a bit torn (or how doy you say that ) at the side. Don't really know how this could happen. See pic.

So I've been to the vet this evening and he cleaned it up a bit and it looks much nicer now. (will take a pic tomorrow) I have to put every day daktarin tinktuur to the side of his beak against infections and In a week or three have to go back to the vet to see if everythings go ok.

But at least the manning and training can still go on.

[Moses]

mate did your vet cope it

speak to outflying , he gave me some advice a few weeks back on coping

[Matt]

gunther that looks nasty !!
i thought i might help with this as im a bit good with copping . (i have copped out masive cracks and twisted beaks back into alinment)
but i have never seen that before . could you get a few better pictures of it???

just a thought but could one of his foods contained sharp and or brital bone ??? because like horses if infaction gets under the hoof or beak it can take a long time to grow out .
the way it looks it must be internal infection growing out rather than any thing breaking in .

we realy do need a better picture,.

with large beak damage supliment is esential as the protein used to grow new beak tisue needs feeding . there are alot of avian suplimentists around and most will make up supliments with extra ~~~~~~~~ for what ever you need to fix or feed.
all the bast matt

[Gunther]

Hmm what do you guys mean with copping? is it maybe this? The vet did the pieces that were maybe infected away with a machine don't know how to say it in english so I found a pic of the machine :)

I taked some new pic's of the bird his beak but again it's not really sharp. I have to take it to close I guess. But it looks much better.

[Hawkmaster]

Use Cornucrescine hoof ointment, work fast and will repair the crack by actually growing it out. This means the bird will need coping.

[Gunther]

But what is copping now exactly?

[Hawkmaster]

Cutting filing or making the beak shorter.

[Gunther]

ah. ok thanks!

[Moses]

here gunther a site with pics too on how to cope


http://www.themodernapprentice.com/coping.htm

[Gunther]

cool thanks!

[Moses]

cool thanks!


your welcome dude

[Sprout]

Am I jumping the gun but you own a falcon but don't know what coping is? When the beak is overgrown, split, damaged, flaking etc etc etc it needs to be corrected, shaping back to the correct size/shape etc by use of files or dremmel drills - that essentially is coping. Feeding good quality food, giving access to suitable material to allow feaking and occasional coping should keep most beaks in good condition.

[Moses]

Am I jumping the gun but you own a falcon but don't know what coping is? When the beak is overgrown, split, damaged, flaking etc etc etc it needs to be corrected, shaping back to the correct size/shape etc by use of files or dremmel drills - that essentially is coping. Feeding good quality food, giving access to suitable material to allow feaking and occasional coping should keep most beaks in good condition.


mate he's fae belgium , im sure falconers in the middle east and asia wont know what coping is if they dont speak the language as their mother tongue :D
they all have their own words for different things

u know what a glove is called in urdu , distana or distani if its a pair

[Gunther]

Just like moses said I'm from Belgium so I don't understand everything, but now I know again something more. We name copping in Belgium "bijvijlen". So now you now what copping in dutch language is ;)

[Sprout]

Apologies for the language barrier problem, just would have thought it basic knowledge how to repair a flaked/cracked beak - whatever it is called

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Now hang on a minute, was everyone here born with the knowledge of how to train birds, cut beaks and general falconry manegement?? Everytime someone ask a question they sooner ore later get the reply "are you fit to keep a bird". I mean, you do have to learn somethings when you actually have your raptor, you cant read your self to everything. is it not better to go to a vet (who obviosly did a good job) and get it done properly first time you have a problem, rather then rive away at it yourself and make it worse?? You see the vet (ore a friend ore whatever) do it and next time you know how to do it yourself!! If he wrote the same thread with the same pic and said he was trying to correct it himself, you would have given him a hard time and told him to get profesional help!!

[Sprout]

I 100% agree with you, if you do not know how to complete a procedure such as coping then find someone who does.
As far as you saying "Now hang on a minute, was everyone here born with the knowledge of how to train birds, cut beaks and general falconry manegement?? " this was posted by someone with a bird already who should know how to manage a basic beak problem - whatever the process is called (apologised for the language barrier already). The forum is here to help those wanting advice, but this is basic stuff and should be known by anyone who already has a bird.

[MattSpar]

I 100% agree with you, if you do not know how to complete a procedure such as coping then find someone who does.
As far as you saying "Now hang on a minute, was everyone here born with the knowledge of how to train birds, cut beaks and general falconry manegement?? " this was posted by someone with a bird already who should know how to manage a basic beak problem - whatever the process is called (apologised for the language barrier already). The forum is here to help those wanting advice, but this is basic stuff and should be known by anyone who already has a bird.

That's absolute nonesense. How many of us learned the niceties of coping before getting our first bird? Certainly not me. Coping is certainly not "basic stuff." It requires skill and dexterity.

[PeelsBells]

Use Cornucrescine hoof ointment, work fast and will repair the crack by actually growing it out. This means the bird will need coping.

Also you can use Prepration H with the conucrescine this helps the blood flow which helps quick and healthy growth.

[Sprout]

Well I class it as basic information - to at least know about, whether you can manage it or not is another question. Bit like crop tubing, splinting broken legs - is that a nicety that you have to wait to learn after you get a bird and you have to perform it in an emergency while pannicking etc etc or did you make the effort to learn properly, go on a first aid course etc before getting a bird?? I apologise for jumping down your throat about coping, as I said it is important to make sure it is done properly so if you don't know how find someone who does - you did right there. I just found it unbelievable someone with a bird didn't know about coping - that was my gripe. I forgot about the language barrier, I assume you did know what coping was but not what it was called so I apologise, but as already said, knowledge of the process etc is basic info - whether you can do it or not is not important.

[MattSpar]

Well I class it as basic information - to at least know about, whether you can manage it or not is another question. Bit like crop tubing, splinting broken legs - is that a nicety that you have to wait to learn after you get a bird and you have to perform it in an emergency while pannicking etc etc or did you make the effort to learn properly, go on a first aid course etc before getting a bird?? I apologise for jumping down your throat about coping, as I said it is important to make sure it is done properly so if you don't know how find someone who does - you did right there. I just found it unbelievable someone with a bird didn't know about coping - that was my gripe. I forgot about the language barrier, I assume you did know what coping was but not what it was called so I apologise, but as already said, knowledge of the process etc is basic info - whether you can do it or not is not important.

Hands up, those who leaned to cope a beak, splint a broken leg (which is a job for a vet), and tube a crop before they had their first bird.

[Loopy]

I learnt all of this on the course I did before getting my hawk. Coping of the beak was considered essential knowledge as it is a routine procedure in the care of a hawk. It is a sad state of affairs if beginners are not taught about these techniques on the courses they attend, the ability to splint a leg or crop tube effectively may well keep your hawk alive or prevent deterioration in it's condition until you can rush it to a vet.

[Sprout]

Hands up, those who leaned to cope a beak, splint a broken leg (which is a job for a vet), and tube a crop before they had their first bird.
Are you joking or what? So you think crop tubing is a job for a vet??? GET REAL. This is a BASIC, and ESSENTIAL skill that will save a birds life in an emergency!!! What a sad state of affairs, people being able to buy birds and having no idea about basic skills. If you don't know how to crop tube yet I suggest you learn quick (and all the other basic skills you also couldn't be bothered to learn) before you need to perform it in the field. Does this also mean you don't possess a first aid kit or knwo how to use it???

[Sprout]

Well said Loopy, finally someone who has prepared correctly for a bird!!

[Falconry Equipment International]

Unfortunately I wa snot in the psoition to have learnt most of these skills when our 1st bird arrived, an injured kestrel when i was only 6 years old, however AFTER advice from a vet ( he told us to put it in the airing cupboard over night with a saucer of Bread & milk :shock:) which of course we did not do, , we minced some meat up very finely , & made up a glucose saline solution ( that my father helped me work out how to 'crop tube') . We also splinted the damaged wing, & whilst he flew slightly lopsided , I flew him for 3 1/2 years. Obviously Vetrenary medicine and falconry husbandry was much more in it's infancy in those days. By tyhe time I got my next bird, not only was I able to splint legs & wings ( inc possibly brailing, ) , I could also administer drugs to BOP orally, IM & IV ! Not bad for a 9 yr old ( still cant type properly tho :oops: :lol:)

[MattSpar]

Coping and crop tubing I leaned before most people on this forum were born Sprout. They were taught me long ago, before there were such things as courses, but after I had my first bird. Broken bones I leave to my vet. I think too much of my birds to fiddle around with that kind of thing myself. Read the post again.

[MattSpar]

In addition to the above post, I should perhaps vindicate my comments by saying I have, over the years, seen the results of DIY surgery with regard to broken bones. They have sometimes been horrifying, whereas a vet could, perhaps, have produced a perfect result. In my view, broken bones should not be tampered with by the falconer. Get the bird to a competent vet without delay. It can make the difference between having a perfectly good bird, or a permanent cripple.

[Sprout]

Who is talking about DIY surgery? I thought we were talking about basic skills required for emergency first aid before a bird can be seen by a vet. I completely agree with you in that any sick bird should be seen by a specialist vet asap but knowing how to crop tube WILL save a birds life in a dire emergency. Splinting legs is a temporary thing to stabilise the leg whilst the bird is taken to a vet to prevent things getting worse and is NEVER a substitute for proper veterinary attention. Birds have little soft tissue around their bones so with excess movement across the fracture site there is risk of causing an open fracture. Splinting the leg stabilises the fracture site and will make the bird more comfortable but only until it can be seen by an avian vet - leaving a splint on long term will cause more problems as the joints are liable to seize and if the fracture site is not stable there will be excess callous formation withe the risk of entrapping tendons.
I re-read your post and it sounds like you are questioning whether people bothered to learn basic first aid skills before getting a bird. I might be wrong but "Hands up, those who leaned to cope a beak, splint a broken leg (which is a job for a vet), and tube a crop before they had their first bird." sounds like you don;t think it is an essential skill to learn before getting a bird??