The Most Powerful Eagle?

[EagleMan]

hello friends !
i'v read that the african crowned eagle could be the most powerfull eagle in the world, in fact, most of crowned eagle prey species are larger than harpy eagles.
literature confirm even adult baboon, a 37 kilo antelope and even human remains ao an eyrie.
what is your opinion about that ? and, by the way, is the african crowned eagle an raptor suited for falconry?
many thanks and.....excuse my english.....

[Fehgan101]

Indeed the African crowned eagle is a very powerful bird that has been known to attack school children (in rural areas) walking to school.The last record of this was when an eagle attacked a eight year child on his way to school in South Africa. The eagle was "unfortunately" killed by a local woman with hoe. I have had the pleasure of rearing one of these magnificent birds while working at a rehab centre in South Africa. The bird was later passed onto a very experienced falconer to reintroduce it back to the wild -although I think he is still flying it.:?: :?:

[EagleMan]

many thanks, fehgan101, the african crowned eagle is among my favourite raptors , i really admire you for the chanse to see and manipulated the eagle in reality.
this eagle must have very powerfull talons isin't it? could be more powerful than the harpy? in specific literature and on the internet source i'v found controversial opinions about this issue.
anyway flayng these birds remain one of my dreams....

[EagleMan]

anyway an national geographic documentary about raptors tell us that harpy eagle posses an grip three times more powerful that an rottweiler bite ....is this a joke ? or there are scientific measurements of those birds grip?
in this case if you have an harpy eagle on your arm, and the bird gets nervous she can pierce your glove and crush your bones.....
is that true?????????????

[Fehgan101]

I'd love to be able to fly one of these birds too. They are certainly beautiful. They are actually specialist monkey eaters and prey mainly on Vervet monkeys. Have had the pleasure of watching them hunt in the wild. Africa is most certainly the best place to have grown up. Dont quite know all the scientific stuff but I would believe that they are far more powerful then a rotti bite. What about the Monkey eating eagle of Malaysia??They are also very big and powerful. Anything that catches primates would have to be I suppose.

[EagleMan]

hi fehgan101
i suppose you where reffering to phillipine eagle, and these eagles are to be found only in piilippine islands not in Malayasia, there are on the brink of extinction , only around 150 pairs survive today, these birds are the second largest birds of prey in the world, after the harpy eagle.
but since i'v seen their talons are less developed than african crowned eagles and their diet is based largely on flyng lemurs.
regarding to your african raptor experience i 'm happy for you, I hope some day i wil meet in reality african raptors....

[HunterPaul]

Indeed the African crowned eagle is a very powerful bird that has been known to attack school children (in rural areas) walking to school.The last record of this was when an eagle attacked a eight year child on his way to school in South Africa. The eagle was "unfortunately" killed by a local woman with hoe. I have had the pleasure of rearing one of these magnificent birds while working at a rehab centre in South Africa. The bird was later passed onto a very experienced falconer to reintroduce it back to the wild -although I think he is still flying it.:?: :?:
so your telling me a local woman and a prostitute managed to kill a full grown eagle.....

[Fehgan101]

Will try and put on some pics when I get home over the weekend. At the moment I have to work some 250 miles from my house so only go home at weekends.Understanding wife. Will be returning home to SA in a few years and will probably fly a black spar and then an African Hawk Eagle if I live inthe right sort of area

[Fehgan101]

Paul I'd expect a comment like that from you. Hope to leave early tomorrow so maybe we can share that bottle of wine!!:rolleyes:

[HunterPaul]

lol ...couldnt resist it stewart...

[Fehgan101]

Nice pics of Jessy and her first kill

[Pitbull]

well if its more powerfull than a rottie then i dont want to be grabbed. i used to traing dogs for attack work and i have had a rottie on my arm and it went through the leather sleeve that i have and the sleeves are thicker than any falconry glove that ihave seen, plus my leather sleeve has a 4mm thick jute sleeve over the leather also scarry man, id rather have the rottie

[EagleMan]

hi fehgan101
i'm new on this site, thanks for all!
can you compare african hawk eagle with bonelli's eagle in terms of hunting capabilities?
these two bird species looks to be quite close related...

[Fehgan101]

When the bird first came into the centre one of the animal nurses decided it would be a good idea to strke the bird and in a flash it grabbed her forearm and its reat talon went clean through her forearm.:cry: :cry: Saying that though the SA Police dogs have been known to rip the F**k out of immigrants body parts-BBC documentry to prove

[Fehgan101]

Pitbull are you ex forces or police

[Pitbull]

did it private and sold to the services

[EagleMan]

to pit bull
this afirmation was made by those from national geographic, i'm iterested to find out if the african crowned eagle possesed an grip more powerful than of an harpy eagle.
regarding to dogs , i' worked with guard dogs in past , and pit bull, tosa inu and caucasian owtcharka are great dogs , all theae breeds bites hard than rottweilers .
regards

[Fehgan101]

Just thought I'd ask.Nice one goto go will try to post some pics tomorrow

[Pitbull]

theres alot of breeds that bite greater than a rottie but everyone compares to them or pitbulls staffies etc etc but i have only worked with a select few. giant poodles have a nasty bite and i have had them on the sleeve. they were used on the german borders but who says they will set there poodle on them ???? but as i said if the eagle has a greater grasp than a rottie i will have the rottie any day

[EagleMan]

sounds logic, but what about the pressure measured on the top of the talon? maybe netional geographic refferes to that kind of force !
regards

[EagleMan]

fehgan 101 ,can you post some pics about african crowned eagles ? thank you
regards

[Pitbull]

you do get sleeves with preasure bars in the sleeve never used one but they do in the police but hey this is deviating from the eagle question cheers

[EagleMan]

I didn't knew about presure sleeves from police,thanks pit bull,
regards

[The Egyptian]

well if its more powerfull than a rottie then i dont want to be grabbed. i used to traing dogs for attack work and i have had a rottie on my arm and it went through the leather sleeve that i have and the sleeves are thicker than any falconry glove that ihave seen, plus my leather sleeve has a 4mm thick jute sleeve over the leather also scarry man, id rather have the rottie

Never known a rotti 2 bite that hard mate ever'
was it a k9 sleeve and are you in 2 the PITS ? got 2 admire the game terier :twisted:

[Minty]

Forget your Eagle mate! Try a Australian Magpie in Breeding season you will get your eyes pecked out

http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/npws.nsf/Content/The+Australian+magpie


Isn't it a shame the Aussie women are not like that in breeding season . She can swoop down on me anytime:grin: :grin:

[EagleMan]

what kind of quarry can be taken with the help of an africn crowned eagle ?

[Tr1gger]

Dont no much about eagles but i thought that the Martial Eagle was the most powerful??

[EagleMan]

not at all, trigger ! the main power of an eagle lies in its grip and talons. martial eagle is indeed an awesome raptor, its feet are larger than goldie and could be more powerful than goldie, but african crowned eagle and harpy eagle surpass the martial !
this is the purpose of this thread that i'm initiated here on falconryforum : - "wich eagle species posses the most powerful talons?" , sadly it seems tht nobody from this site knows from sure , but there's hope !

[OutFlying]

Why does it matter ? Do you have a requirement for the most powerful grip - if an eagle can catch quarry in the wild I'm sure its grip is powerful enough. Is it the answer for a pub quiz ??????????????????:)

[EagleMan]

it is one thing to kill a hare like golden eagle, and a differend thing to kill an baboon like crowned eagle or to snatch an full grown sloth from a branch as harpy does ...don't you think?
thanks!

[OutFlying]

are you hunting monkeys or slouths ?

[EagleMan]

no , i'm talking here about wich species is the most powerful raptor, not what i'm hunting , thanks

[EagleMan]

well, nobody knows wich eagle species can kill the largest prey ?
my debate harpy vs. crowned eagle will ever tell us wich species is stronger ?

[Osiris]

well, nobody knows wich eagle species can kill the largest prey ?
my debate harpy vs. crowned eagle will ever tell us wich species is stronger ?

Unless you find someone who hunts both!

[EagleMan]

well osiris , that will be great!

[EagleMan]

harpy eagle feet!image%208.jpg

[EagleMan]

sorry, can anyone help me to put some pics ? wich are the steps to be made ?

[Hawkin-Flight]

photos of HARPY EAGLE

[Hawkin-Flight]

Harpy Eagle And Crowned Eagle

[EagleMan]

i want to but some pics , wich is the procedure ?

[Hawkin-Flight]

go to the manage attachments tab and click on it

[EagleMan]

harpy eagle 's huge feet......

[EagleMan]

african crowned eagles pics, some used as hunting birds

[EagleMan]

same eagle catch a monkey...

[Finnish]

Very nice pic's there Eagle Man:supz:

Have you got any pics' of the Eagles on kills......

finnish

[EagleMan]

for example these are golden eagle feet....

[EagleMan]

another harpy....head this time...

[HawkEagle]

I love your pics. I am quite certain that a harpy is stronger than a crowned. The bird is so much larger. Trust me weight can be quite important to hold down large prey. I personally prefer a crowned regardless. Definitely the one to own:supz:

[EagleMan]

between harpy and crowned, i'll choose crowned too, regarding to power, crowned kills prey 8 times his weight, also the power of an eagle lies in the feet, and proportionally crowned has larger feet and talons....i hope to find some day wich one of those two is the top dog....come with suplimentary info pls.

[EagleMan]

another crowned

[EagleMan]

crowned over guineea pig fresh kill

[EagleMan]

and detailed harpy feet

[EagleMan]

another shot...

[HawkEagle]

Eagle man, do you have pics of crowned eagle's feet? Magnificent bird indeed.

[EagleMan]

and this is an male harpy eagle...

[HawkEagle]

How come their claws are so blut. Most pics I have seen of harpy all have very blunt claws. Have they been coped down or are they not sharp anyway? If they really do have claws like these then I'll go with the crowned to kill larger prey.

[EagleMan]

of course you 'r right, my friend, maybe is a zoo bird, and she walks a lot on the rough soil, for example , this one is a wild bird , but the pics is 139 kb and exceed the power of the file, i cannot post many pics because of that, send me your e mail , i'll sent all my pics maybe you can post it ...

[EagleMan]

sorry, this is the best crowned eagle feet pic that i' have , untill now !

[EagleMan]

another harpy, check out the feet....

[HawkEagle]

of course you 'r right, my friend, maybe is a zoo bird, and she walks a lot on the rough soil, for example , this one is a wild bird , but the pics is 139 kb and exceed the power of the file, i cannot post many pics because of that, send me your e mail , i'll sent all my pics maybe you can post it ...
send me the mail. libevo@hotmail.com

[HawkEagle]

Eagleman, After all, it could be the golden eagle daphania then? Wolf catching legend. Impressive.

[HawkEagle]

Too good to share.

[HawkEagle]

Another one of the pics.

[ChakChek]

******* hell! those feet in the earlier pics are phonominal!

i knew they were big birds but seriously?! hahaha

think the harpy wins

[Hawkin-Flight]

one big bird

[Hawkin-Flight]

probably a female

[Hawkin-Flight]

nice feet

[HawkEagle]

Here is another one.

[Liam Fensome]

Have you ever been grapped by one

[Miguel]

probably a female


Yeah, thats a female, and that's me on the picture... LOL
Great bird!!

[Moritz]

I have seen only harpies but no crowned eagles. Your question is quite good would likt know that my self. I will try to find out give me 5-10 yers of research and I will be able to tell you.

Moritz

[SycoPaff]

very sexy eagle! lucky ******! lol

[EagleMan]

would you let yourself to be kissed by this beauty ?
courageous trainer, isn't he ?

[Tr1gger]

Show us the pic after the eagle has ate his nose. :lol: I wouldnt do that if u paid me £100000

Nice looking eagle

[Kanati]

Show us the pic after the eagle has ate his nose. :lol: I wouldnt do that if u paid me £100000

Nice looking eagle


I will do it for £100000 !!! hell.. I will do it for half that! thats a nice bird ! would love to fly one of those just once! must be great!

[Barbary Boy]

what kind of monkey is that eagle eating?

[Liam Fensome]

Have you ever been kissed by its feet

[Tr1gger]

Have you ever been kissed by its feet

His face looks still in one peice but i suppose the half we cant see could be scared and destroyed

[EagleMan]

he is not a monkey, at least for an filipino trainer....:lol:
she is an phillipine eagle , through to be the second largest eagle in the world after harpy eagle. thei eagle is the most endangerd eagle inthe world....sadly..only around 200-250 birds survive today...

[EagleMan]

another african crowned eagle, this time an tiercel called Biko.....

[EagleMan]

great bird...

[Moritz]

Stunning pictures m8!!! Would not mind haveing a crowned eagle!

[Bibou]

Hi EagleMan,

looking for news, stories and pics of my favourite birds of prey, amongst them harpy and crowned eagle, I found one of your chats, and immediately signed up on the falconry forum.

Over the years I've collected some material about these birds. I'll try to attach some pics for you, and let me know what else would interest you.

Concerning your question, in absolute terms and looking at it, the harpy should be the strongest eagle. Having seen males and females in different zoos in Germany (Dortmund, Nürnberg, Berlebeck, Wuppertal) and the US (San Diego), I can only tell you, their lower legs are about 4-5 cm strong. The weight is easily doulbe that of the crowned eagle. Largest prey are howler monkeys (up to 6-7 kg)

However, I agree that relative to the size the prey of crowned eagles is definately more impressive. I got an article about Craig Golden in South Africa who hunts with crowned eagles. At one point, the frustrated eagle seriously attacks his large hunting dog which would have been killed if he handn't been saved by the falconer.

It must be said that weight alone is no measure for "size" of the prey. A monkey or another predator is certainly much more dangerous to the bird than a herbivore like deer.

Anyway, both are magnificent birds. I share your passion for them!

:!:

[HawkEagle]

I always thought it's the Steller sea eagle the largest of all eagles, correct me if I am wrong. I reckon they are probably the same size including phillipian eagle.

[Bibou]

O.k., you are right. :yawinkle:

Depends on what means "large" to you. Stellers sea eagles are 89-104 cm in length, but their tail is very short, as with all the sea eagles. Males weigh 5-6 kg, females 7-9.

That's pretty similar to the Harpy: 91-110 cm in lenth (long tail!), and 4-4,5 kg and 6-9 kg respectively.

However, the Stellers sea eagles feet are only about the size of those of the white-tailed sea eagle, no match for the other species discussed.

You could also consider wingspan. Here the harpy seems quite small since in the forest long wings only get in the way. 180-210 cm, that's about a bald eagle.

[HawkEagle]

So, the steller sea eagle is the heaviest then. What about phillipian eagle. I've seen a pic of someone holding the bird and my god the bird was massive. I still believe harpy eagle is the most powerful eagle. Imagine flying a harpy eagle wouldn't it scare you more than a crowned eagle? I know it would.

[Bibou]

Length 86-102 cm (tail even longer than Harpie's)

weight for males same as for Harpy (4000 - 4600 g)

Female: don't know :?:

I got these numbers from a fantastic book bei Friedhelm Weick, Co-Author is Leslie H. Brown, the biggest expert on crowned eagles.

[Bibou]

now I found what you guys need. Here you can at least see the difference in size between harpy and golden eagle talons. :supz:

[Bibou]

And here is how they compare to tigers, bears and the gang...

[Moritz]

Nice pics m8. Liked them a lot where did you get them from? Are you gemran by any chance?Did not know that Dortmund has got Harpies last time I went there I did not see any. Only golden eagles. I saw the ones in Berlebeck but they were stuffed so got a right close one. I have seen Stellas in the
Bavarien Hunting Falcon Castle,( Bayrischer Jagdfalkenhof), I think they were Males, about the size of a small Bald eagle female.

Moritz

[Bibou]

[QUOTE=Moritz]Nice pics m8. Liked them a lot where did you get them from? Are you gemran by any chance?Did not know that Dortmund has got Harpies last time I went there I did not see any. Only golden eagles. I saw the ones in Berlebeck but they were stuffed so got a right close one. I have seen Stellas in the
Bavarien Hunting Falcon Castle,( Bayrischer Jagdfalkenhof), I think they were Males, about the size of a small Bald eagle female.

You're right, I'm German, from Munich. I lived a couple of years in Dortmund. They had an adult male for several years. Than it was given to a brazilian Zoo and they got an immature from Nuremberg. However, that one also was given away after a couple of years, so, no more Harpies in Dortmund.

Berlebeck used to have a live one, and to my knowledge Berlebeck were the first ever to breed them in captivity. So you're saying they are gone now? Would be sad.

I should go to the Jagdfalkenhof, since I'm in Munich now. Thanx

And here some more of those amazing feet.

[Afshimo]

I'd hate to be on the recieving end of those feet! They are ginormouse!

What kind of glove do you need when you handle them? all the big eagles from goldie's upwards. What leather they made out of?

I'd love an eagle, but I'll be needing a smaller one like a male goldie, tawny, steppe etc. I can hold a female goldie for a while, but she was nice, I'd have major troubles with untrained female lol - never mind a harpy or cronwed!

Admire the work ppl do with eagles and any birds of prey, specially the huge monstors lol...biiig feet!

[Kitana]

I know of a rehabilitated golden eagle who broke the wrist of 5 persons while in training for a show... So even with the best glove in the world these wonderful birds are still dangerous to their handler!

[HawkEagle]

Sounds like if you by any chance happen to train one of these monsterous eagles then training right from eyass should be less hazardous. Right?

[EagleMan]

hello bibou,
and a lot of thanks for sharing those pics ! yes, in some points you'r right about the harpy, is larger and heavier than the crowned, but i saw an female crowned raised in Moholoholo game reserve in south africa, female that posses talons as large as the talons posted by you ....
regarded to crowned, yes , this eagles usualy hunts prey larger and dangerous than those hunted by harpyes....i remember one orithologist, i think his name is Paul Myburgh, who related about crowned that hunt baboons, the baboon's weight is somwhere 25-40 kilo, and has canines longer than leopards.
i'v seen an documentary in wich was presented many guard dogs from south africa mauled and some killed by baboons, amongs them where german sheperds, bullmastiffs, boerboels and even pit bulls.....and crowned eagles hunt baboons for food...

[EagleMan]

another interesting aspect is related to the caracter and the spirit of those two birds, crowned hunt prey even 6-7 time theit weight, so the risc taken is much larger than of the harpy, for example an 7 kilo howler monkey is smaller than an 9 kilo female harpy.....it seems quite obvious than crowned is more courageous , agressive and posses more determination than an harpy.
it results from here that crowned could be more suited for falconry too...
i'dont know from shure , bibo , i could be wrong.....i think nobody studied and compared these two birds in particular so we can have an totally authentic opinion, maybe you can acces more info, i wish you succes, and belive me i'm very glad tht you sare the same passion as myself.
many regards

[EagleMan]

hi hannah !
yes you need an special glove, in south africa , falconers that manipulated crowned eagles wear an glove made from 3 layers of bullet proof material !

[EagleMan]

and yes, Stellers sea eagles share the same weight as herpies , but their feet are the same an white tailed eagles , the only interesting aspect is theit beak , steller's beak is the most powerful beak of any eagles, nature equipated with beaks strong enough to tear into the salmon hide, this is the reason, these eagles feed mostly on kamchatka salmons .

[HawkEagle]

Ok guys, if let say harpy is the most powerful and crowned is second then what would be the 3rd 4th and 5th?

[EagleMan]

hi hawk eagle !
if we agree thet the harpy is the most powerfull and the crowned the second, wich personally i don't belive untill proven, the 3 place is sure the martial eagle, the 4 is philippine eagle and 5 is golden eagle.
i don't count the subfamily of sea eagles, co's thei hunt only fishes:grin:

[HawkEagle]

hi hawk eagle !
if we agree thet the harpy is the most powerfull and the crowned the second, wich personally i don't belive untill proven, the 3 place is sure the martial eagle, the 4 is philippine eagle and 5 is golden eagle.
i don't count the subfamily of sea eagles, co's thei hunt only fishes:grin:
Isn't golden eagle daphania race more powerful than a martial eagle? Cause they can kill wolf weighting over 100 lbs. That's massive prey.

[EagleMan]

hello hawk eagle !
daphnaea is still an golden eagle, i remember that here on the forum an falconer just said that an martial feet are larger than goldies, maybe in your UK there is someone wou flyng and compare those two species....maybe we have an answer.....:supz:
regarding to killing wolves , is very unnatural for golden eagles to hunt wolves in the wild, en wild eagle will hunt only carnivorous as large as red foxes, maybe i say MAYBE juvenile lynxes, is very dangerous to hunt carnivorous.
even falconers from central asia disagreed flyng an eagle to a wolf , at least most on them, i read conffesions in wich they often says that an eagle flown more than 3 times on a wolf is more susceptible to deseas and more urious most of the eagle flown at wolves present missing talons ,bittrn by the wolves ,of course.
an golden eagle don't see an wolf as food but mainly as an predator, so kazah eagle trainers have special training methods in order to annihilate the natural fear of eagles by wolf.
one of these methods is very interesting:
- they just feed the eagle for a period of 3-4 mounths using only a stuffed wolf:roll:
- how they do that ? they just place pieces of meat in the orbits of the stuffed wolf so the eagle will get use to attack the eyes with his beak
also they roll the entired body of the stuffed animal with barb wire , except the heag and the neck, so the eagle should attack only these body parts with his talons , interesting isn't that ?

[Bibou]

Hi guys,

for everybody do form his or her own opinion, here are some more pics of crowned eagles, espeicially some talons.

Check out the hind claw on one of the pictures, it is about the biggest I've ever seen, at least in proportion to the bird.

Concerning the size of the feet: birds of prey hunting also birds, like the martial eagle, have larger, but not thicker feets, like those hunting mammals. Those hunting manly mammals have largers claws and thicker toes and tarsus.

Cheers

[EagleMan]

hi everybody !
bibou those pics are more than great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 thanks a lot.
from wich magazine or book are the pics with crowned eagle ?
i'm interested also in specific literature
regards

[Peregrine960]

good info on eagles
http://www.hawk-conservancy.org/prioreagles.shtml

[EagleMan]

and yes bibou you'r very right about the relation between thichness of talon or toes and an mammal diet....
for example falcons and goshawks who hunt mainly birrds posses long and thin toes.

[HawkEagle]

What a hallux. The hallux from the pic can't be smaller than of a harpy eagle's, can it? They were massive. Eagleman, Bibou do any of you have figure on size of them of both harpy and crowned? I have read the harpy's hallux are 5" long. What about the crowned?

[Bibou]

hi guys,

here are some more pics of crowned eagles. On is on a small gazelle (sorry, the quality is really bad). On the other you can see quite well the talons of a crowned.

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Friends

I have faith that these 3 eagles, Harpia of America, the Crowned Eagle of Africa and Ilhas Philippines' Philippine Eagle, be the most powerful birds of prey than they exist, simply due to a specialization to hunt animals as primates in the middle of the forest, and in a hunt place as this, it cannot have mistake, then the tarsos, and claws are very powerful, capable to burst the cranium of a monkey due to pressure of the tarsos. Ally the these very powerful weapons, they possess a long tail, and wings relatively short for if they turn agile predators, non gliders. Now among the 3 eagles which the most powerful, I have faith that is enough we see the relationship size / weigh, where I believe that the larger species will be the most powerful. The fact of crowned eagle to have wholesale people, or you encourage with the mentioned weight her it doesn't place in superiority about the other species. In the diet of Harpia it consists great mammals as deer, whose weight doesn't have idea, but with quite heavy certainty, besides many other animals. As the possibility to attack people, I believe that this UNHAPPILY happens also with Harpia in South America, but that is in the case of the crowned Eagle more mentioned due to a larger contact of this species with the man in Africa.
Andre Groenwald has very interesting articles on this eagle in Africa in falconry, and published in the magazine American Falconry and International Falconry.
As the Martial Eagle that I admire a lot, she is a very powerful hunter but inferior the eagles of forests. Studies already demonstrated that the martial eagle feeds a lot of birds, and for that she has longer fingers than the forest eagles and with claws less developed.
I mention more Harpia, because I am Brazilian, and I know a creator of Harpias in Brazil that every year he reproduces your Harpias in captivity, and they are very powerful birds.

Greetings


Jorge

[HawkEagle]

Well put Jorge, I totally agree with you. Jorge, where can I see a harpia in Brazil? I would love to see them not to find out which is the most powerful but just to see them real.:D

[AccipiterFreak]

How about a Muntjac killing Taiwanese Mountain Hawkeagle?:supz:

[NGuruve]

wow that mountain hawk eagle looks pretty big howmuch do they weight i read that it can be up to 3.5 kg sowot be much smaller than a crowned


nice pic though

[EagleMan]

hi friends !
yes Jorge, harpy is larger than crowned, but i doubt about power , in animal kingdom we have a lot of example in wich an smaler animal is more powerfull an ferocious tan a larger one, even in the birds world.
back to our eagles , the power of an eagle lies in his talons, toes and feet muscle, based on this coordinates crowned is at least as strong as harpy, i don't want to upset anybody but i can't belive untill proven......
and pound per pound crowned is not only the most powerful raptor ,but acording to studies is the stronger bird inthe world !!!!!!!!!!1
i saw an doc on animal planet channel in wich where presented the most powerfull animals , and guess who win the birds section ?

[EagleMan]

just compare the game pit bull to the large and more massive and bulky rottweiller, maybe is not the happiest example:-D

[EagleMan]

i remeber that japanese falconers use the mountain hawk eagle in fox and racoon dog hunting, an small and innofesive deer is not a problem for the largest hawk eagle species.....

[HawkEagle]

Could it be the harpy that has been less studied and documented than the crowned eagle so there has been less impressive figures on the prey items. Crowned eagle has been throughly studied therefore more prey items has been recorded and more impressive figure appears. Mind you the bird is almost twice the size and pound per pound Harpy ain't no weak bird.:supz:

[EagleMan]

another info hawk eagle :
the most dangerous natural enemy for harpy eagle is the ocelot cat, i found more than one example on the net in wich tis wild cat hunt even adult harpy for food,
on the other side the crowned prey a lot on serval cat wich is larger than the ocelot,
and hey people , isn't one of you concerned about the carachter and behaviout of the crowned? is that matter to you? from all we read and know isn't crowned more spirited, more temperamental, more temerarand ferocious ?
:supz:

[EagleMan]

i hate that i don't have in off money to study the harpy eagle in more depht, i am capable to go in the jungle and study harpies but no bloddy money....
no sponsor to a scientific study, where i can find ?
you'r right hawk eagle harpy is less study than crowned.....:x

[HawkEagle]

i hate that i don't have in off money to study the harpy eagle in more depht, i am capable to go in the jungle and study harpies but no bloddy money....
no sponsor to a scientific study, where i can find ?
you'r right hawk eagle harpy is less study than crowned.....:x
Eagleman, have you ever handled a crowned eagle? I'll tell you what once the ban on bird flu is over I'll have 3 crowned eagles at home. Then I'll go to Brazil to check out the harpy then I should know roughly which is more powerful. :supz:

[NGuruve]

haha i think we all would like a crowned or harpy and even better both but i agree that the crowned is more formidable despite its smaller size it shows alot of determination and courage so i vote for the crowned maybe im bias because im from africa hehe:lol:

[EagleMan]

no hawk eagle, i didn't handled neither on of these birds:(
you want to poured salt and acid on my wounds:cry: i don't know if i will be so lucy someday.....:cry: but in Romania we have a sayng:
;the hope allways dies the last one ! ;
so i stillhope and fight for this chance.........

[HawkEagle]

If you have access to both birds, how will you find out which is more powerful? It must be difficult, isn't it?

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Hawk Eagle

In many zoos of Brazil you can see an eagle Harpia, some as in the north of Brazil in the Zoo of the Museu Emílio Goeldi, you get to see fabulous birds, but the best place where you can see a Harpia of very close and very well maid is in the Criadouro CRAX, in the city of Contagem - Minas Gerais - Brazil, in this place, with the proprietor's authorization Dr. Azeredo, you can be in an observation platform to one and a half meter of a nest of Harpia while she takes care of the nestling, in case she has been born a nestling you until can arrive very close of him. Dr. Azeredo possesses now around 24 Harpias, some already reproducing another that are given for your institution. To speak with Dr. Azeredo, it is a class of as she should create a Harpia and how to handle in a correct way these great predators.
Among the eagles mentioned previously by me, in my opinion, Harpia is the more fort but the most beautiful in my opinion is the eagle crowned African.

Greetings.

Jorge

[HawkEagle]

Thanks Jorge. Do you by any chance have a proper address of Criadouro CRAX? I'd love to pay them a visit.

[AccipiterFreak]

wow that mountain hawk eagle looks pretty big howmuch do they weight i read that it can be up to 3.5 kg sowot be much smaller than a crowned


nice pic though
Female Taiwanese Mountain Hawkeagle weight around 2500 to 3000 g, while male weight around 1500 to 2000 g. They are much smaller than the Japanese subspecies. But, they regularly kill macaques and munjiacs (8 to 15 kg) in the wild. the bird in the foto should be in her 4th year plumage.

[Bibou]

Eagleman,

no need to travel to Brazil, although it must be great. In Nürnberg they are still breeding Harpies, so you can see them really close at the zoo. However, make sure to come during summertime, in winter they are not visible.

The picture shows a 2 months old harpy.

By the way, you are absolutely right about the importance of the attitude and technique of the bird. Yust compare a goshawk to let's say a redtail. It's not weight that matters most in the different capabilities to master large prey.

P.S. Did you get my e-mail. I tried to send you some stuff. How about that litereature you keep mentioning? Can you send me some of that? :roll:

Thanks

[Miguel]

Wow, no jesses! Now, that's brave!! Great bird!!
Too bad the one I worked with, it's not getting along with the male, I would love to see a baby harpy! :(

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Hawk Eagle

In the moment I don't have the address of CRAX, but next time that to talk with Dr. Azeredo I ask and I address. CRAX is located in the city of Contagem that is 30 minutes ago of I transmit (car) of the city of Belo Horizonte, that is one of the great Brazilian capitals. I suggest that you send an email for Dr. Azeredo's partner, Mr. J. Simpson for agendar visits, the email is jsimpom@terra.com.br
In the year of 2004 there was a very interesting course on handling of eagles harpias in captivities, besides there are some pictures that I posted with this title in this forum.

Greetings.

[MickeyDredd]

Wow, no jesses! Now, that's brave!! Great bird!!


Not only that, he's using a telemetry bag for a glove :shock: :D

[EagleMan]

hawk eagle i remember that i saw a documentary in wich some researches from san francisco zoo developed an device who measure the grip power of the eagles,
it was the size and the form of an bottle , was made of rubber and with an dynamometer attached, the eagle just sit on the rubber bottle and the researcher harras him , then the nervous eagle gripped agressively the aparat and they measure the force release,
interesting fact:
they measured harpy eagles and before the harpy experiment, an bodybuilder grip and squeezed the device with his fingers , his grip was much weaker than the harpy result :-D
even the goden eagle measured in the same way squeezed more stronger than the bodybuilder, you should ss his face:grin: he can belive his eyes, tryed several time but he couldn't reach even half of the godie gripping power ,
at the end of experyment he was really scared by the eagles, and he refudes to handle the harpy eagle for an final photo group:lol: !!!!

[EagleMan]

golden eagles seems to be redutable predators too, here the death is raising against an european roe deer.

[EagleMan]

chech out !

[EagleMan]

proud hunter!

[KenHawker1970]

You need a bigger freezer.

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Eagle Man

Thank You, Thank you, Thank you very much.

Incredible pictures. Wonderful bird.

Who is the falconer???

Yes You need one big freezer

Jorge

[HawkEagle]

Eagleman, what is estimate weight of that deer. It's hugh. It must be tough taking the kill away from the bird.

[EagleMan]

i'll thank you too Jorge for all your info:supz: , im glad that you like it !
i don't remember the falconer,s name , but the pics were made at an hunt in Opocno, this year , Opocno is in the Czech republic

[EagleMan]

hi hawk eagle!
the weight for an roe deer is somwhere 9 up to 30 kilos.
the eagle's victim from the pics should weight around 26-28 kilos.

[DeathFromAbove]

**** me..... you see the size of that harpy eagles feet?? :shock: astounding!!

gripping power is meant to be the equivelent of a rotweilers bite isn't it?

Brave man to have that sat on his arm hehe

[NGuruve]

brave or thats a fake arm cause that would be painful ifsumthingwentwrong and he wouldnt be so brave then:twisted:

[Bibou]

Hello friends,

here are some more of those amazing pictures of goldies.
With respect to our discussion, we should remember that it's one thing what a species kills as prey in the wild, and what it might be capable of killing if flown by a falconer. Goldies are a good example for that, or take Saker or Perigrine falcons. Thy would never kill a heron for instance in the wild.
But anyhow, enjoy... :D

[Bibou]

And some more with foxes and wolfes....

[JuliaK]

A Falconer with a Golden Eagle is hunting deers. His Eagle(female)4 Kilo, has hunting a deer it weight 18kilogramm.

[KenHawker1970]

Bibou.. Words fail me mate. Them there pictures are brilliant. Top class hunting.


Ken

[SakerJack]

Bibou,
Those pictures have been around for awhile, it is not of a wild Golden eagle taking a deer...I agree a trained eagle, falcon or hawk will try their chances at most anything you throw at them...I have had a 36oz. saker strike and bound to a 13 lb jackrabbit(hare), I have had a small female red-tail hit and hang on to a full grown Canadian red fox, But the most powerful eagle????
I doubt it is a golden... I had a friend years ago fly a Harpy, It broke his arm when it bated off the glove...
A Golden is not the most powerful,, I agree they take big quarrry in a falconry setting, BUT I would look to the Harpy, the Monkey Eagle from P,I. African Crowned Eagle,, all these take a sort of monkey, sloth and they fight back,,,,,,,Without a falconer coming behind to dispatch the victim..
Sakerjack

[HawkEagle]

You are right about dispatching the quirries. Most of the time the birds just hold their prey waiting for you to kill it. Still, in the hand of falconer how big the prey can the top eagles take?

[Minty]

Although not that experienced in Falconry (getting There) i have stidied birds of prey since i was 10 since i lived in Scotland. I have pictures all over My house of Mainly Eagles and have just read everything in 30 years.
I have seen many Eagles in the Wild from Africa to the Far East and then i got married (and then all i saw was ****** nappies and Tesco's bargain basement)
I do not think you can say there is a strongest or most powerful Eagle. Yes there's probably a Top 5 which all have been mentioned but its 'On the Mood on the day'
The difference between a Ford GT and a Lamborghini....Minimal.

The Marshall and the Golden are all up there but its to much of a broad question to give one bird.
The most versatile now thats easy the 'Golden' can adapt to almost anywhere and probably and i say probably the most intelligent eagle out there.

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello friends

Which was the question the most powerful eagle than it exists?

Based on this inside of my modest knowledge have faith that should understand to can of a bird of prey being represented inside of the potential of flight of an eagle, it forces of your claws and of all your physical structure.

I believe that cannot just judge also the force of an eagle for the results of just a falconer. An inexperienced falconer will be with an eagle in the fist, he will do with that it flies in the fist, but he won't have great results, to the opposite, a skilled falconer will surprise many. I believe that have to analyze the biology of the species of existent eagles. This subject could extend a lot due to great amount of information, but studies accomplished in Spain by Félix Rodriguez of La Fuente, they demonstrate that the golden eagles are great hunters, but they are also opportunists feeding of dead animals, they are great gliding, they invest in a prey, they can feel to the " luxury " of failing, therefore when this happens they arise again to invest again in the prey, they usually use a glided flight and the dive on the prey to hunt, in the last instant when a prey as the hare changes all of a sudden of direction it doesn't have the agility to change quickly of direction and to pursue the prey.
Now analyze the great eagles of forests, although they glide, they use as technique to hunt the fast exit of trees, where due the wings relatively short and the long tail maneuvers inside of the forest as a " gigantic goshawk ", and they cannot fail, therefore a wounded animal hides at the forest in few seconds, then they possess monstrous weapons, this way they pull a primate of a branch in few seconds, and the pressure of your fingers and claws it is so strong that burst the cranium of the monkeys. I believe that based on this without a doubt the most powerful eagles are Harpy Eagle; Crowned Eagle; and Phillipine Eagle.

[EagleMan]

hello friends !
golden eagle is capable of breaking mens forearms too, even horrific thereis a documentated situation in centrel asian countries in wich some inexperienced falconers were even killed by golden eagles.
however is for from the titled of being the most powerful BOP.
there is an top five at the begining of this tread, and my personal opinion ia that even the martial eagle surpass the goldie....
and belive me golden eagle doesn't need to be trained to fly at roe deers.
in many parts of europe roe deer is tthe main natural prey for the goldies in the wild, for example in Slovakia there many eyries full of deer remains, also in my native country Romania golden eagles have be seen hunting roe deers and even chamois.
but is equal true that in winter time when food is scarce goldie can be an scavenger.

[HawkEagle]

One thing Jorge is right about forest hunting eagles, they have to kill their preys as quick as they can any slip the prey will be lost in a bush. That's why most of them have sudden burst of grip. Like my mountain hawkeagle, the bird grips so hard for the size ( slightly larger than RT). It'll make a puncture in a double thickness glove easily. I have to use a tripple layer eagle glove for a new training bird. Golden eagle on the other hand being about the same size as crowned eagle but doesn't pose as large talons as the crowned eagle with thinner tarsus and slimmer feet. Still it is one of my all time favourites.

[EagleMan]

totally agree, hawk eagle, GREAT BIRD YOU HAVE !:yawinkle:

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Friends, Hawk Eagle, Eagle Man

I have faith that the better people for us to speak about these comparisons, they are those that had contact with these species in falconry. I have been having contact with 24 Harpias that I saw in Dr. Roberto Azeredo's Criadouro CRAX, I never trained any, and another that I observed in other Brazilian cities in Zoos. The females of Harpia weigh 9 Kg and the hálux, it measures from 10 to 15 cm, the claw interns it is also monstrous. Of ownership of these weapons they still possess inside an agile flight of the forest maneuvering and pursuing preys, that are very varied, although the diet of the eagles Harpias are in your majority monkeys and bugs laziness (Bradipus), they also hunt macaws (Ara macao), great serpents (Boa constrictor), and in zones of transition of the tropical forest for other ecosystems as savannahs, and fields, they hunt deer, canídeos of several species, quatis (Nasua), and many other preys.

Some Argentinean friends that had contact with Golden Eagle, say that are inferior Harpia.

As Martial Eagle (Polemaetus belicosus) it is also very interesting, and very powerful but although it captures felines, carnivorous mammals, rodents, it is an eagle that possess long fingers, that is perhaps a specialization your great capacity to capture birds. Studies of the biology of this bird demonstrated that 80% of your diet are composed by birds of several species, Gallinaceous, and many other, and 20% are composed by mammals as mangustas, rodents, jackals, etc. In this aspect she doesn't compete with the eagle of Verreaux, that has in your diet 80% of mammals and only 20% of others you encourage as birds, repteis,etc, being doesn't compete like this to each other, since a lot of times happen in the same areas. The martial eagle happens in savannas, while eagle of Verreaux, occupies mountains and islands of stones that happen in the savanna.

Certainly if it will specify the five more powerful species they would be:

Harpy Eagle
Crowned Eagle
Phillipine Eagle
Martial Eagle
Golden Eagle

There is also an eagle very beautiful and powerful but it is very rare and little knows about her that is the Oroaetus isidori

Greetings

Jorge

[NGuruve]

but how does the black eagle compare its much like a goldern and they have killed antelope in africa so i think the list should include it so a top 6 most powerful eagles

[Wilfred]

The black and chestnut eagle/ Isodor´s eagle/Oroaetus isidori


http://www.neotropicalraptors.org/fpallinger.i.html
http://www.peregrinefund.org/notes_category.asp?category=Isidors%20Eagle,%20Per u
http://www.design2d.co.uk/digiscoping/ecuador/one/ecuador_1.htm (pictures below on the right)
http://vireo.acnatsci.org/specieslist.html?VIREO_SESSION_ID=643ece1d4eeed8e2 5f54632c93571642 (down to black and chestnut eagle, 1 picture)

[NGuruve]

i was meaning verreux eagle sorry

[EagleMan]

hello Jorge !
in some parts of africa the diet of martial eagle is as much as 80%, the martial is not specialized in hunting birds, just look at the shape of it's wings nad tail .
the martila do not possess an long tail in goshawk style or sharp pointed wings like falcons, so he could have the possibillity to hunt mainly birds, be
beside that , the martial is a heavy bird, 4 to 6 kilo , that too recomand martial not an bird specialist, and its feet and talons tend to be larger than goldie...

[EagleMan]

and regarding to harpy huge weight....i doubt ....9 kilo is the heavy bird measured ever, is like all humans are as big as Shaquille o'neal.
most harpy females in the wild are 6 to 7 kilos and males are 4 to 5 kilos...so ?
and yes an 9 kilo harpy could be more powerfull than a 5 kilo crowned...but that's all.....crowned is more fearless, spirited, agressive bird .
it will be great if we will find someone who has both crowned and harpy eagles.
and i remind you tht crowned has feet and talons as large as any harpy:supz:

[EagleMan]

and verreaux eagle is infrior to martial in terms of size, strenght, weaponry and hunting capabilities.

[HawkEagle]

I have read Martial eagles in some area are bird specialists. They take a lot of francolins in the wild. Still I reckon they just take what they can catch. It could be very large if it cant find small items. Regarding black eagle and golden eagle, I have talk to someone who's bred both black eagle and golden eagle so I asked him who is more powerful and it was the golden eagle. Golden eagle poses smaller feet but more powerful grip. The guy also has a pair of crowned eagle and he has worked with a harpy eagle. He said harpy is the most powerful eagle in the world. Still why are they so powerful when they dont have to be that powerful to hunt their preys? Anyway, what is the weight of an isidor eagle?

[EagleMan]

this is a great question.....why harpy has to be so large and powerful if she hunt smaller and less dangerous prey than crowned?

[Wilfred]

because a miniature harpy is far less impressive

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Friends

This discussion is very interesting. When I mentioned that Martial Eagle diet was composed around 80% of birds, they were based on researches accomplished by cientists in the African savannas, where they observed the interaction between Polemaetus belicosus and Aquila verreauxi, and they proved this. Your diet was composed around 80% of birds as Otis tarda; Francolins, Chickens of Guinea, etc. Really the silhouette of a bird, the anatomy really denotes of what your diet it is composed, but we have in Brazil, I think in America a known Buteo as Buteo brachyurus, that although it possesses a short tail and a similar silhouette the one of a Buteo, it is a specialist in birds, with fingers with protuberances very developed, fingers that remind a Falco, and they hunt with wonderful dives, I think the Martial Eagle can be framed in this condition, they sometimes possess span of wings of two and a half meters, and tail relatively tans, but at least in these works that I read in the African savanna your diet it was largely composed by birds.
With relationship to the weight of Harpia, certainly it can arrive to 9 kg the female , I have faith that the largest preys than I knew captured by Harpias they were deer.

Respectfully.

Jorge

[HawkEagle]

I have actually seen a footage of a crowned eagle attacking large antelope and it was too large for the eagle to kill. The bird grabed the rear end of the antelope and it was draged around by the antelope hanging unable to free itself. This is the problem of a powerful bird that dont have weight advantage to hold their prey down.

[Miguel]

http://www.meyers-naturfoto.de/bilder/Afrika13.jpg

[EagleMan]

hi friends !
first of all crowned is far from a miniature harpy:mad: it has talonsas large as any harpy, despite the fact is smaller, but not much smaller:cool:
hawk eagle you are totally right, i now think this could be the reason why crowned is more ferocious and determinate than the harpy...
the crowned must compensate the weight differencial by being more agressive and fearless than the harpy:cool:

[NGuruve]

i definatly agree the crowned is the more ferocious bird and has baisiclly the equiptment the harpy

[EagleMan]

and Jorge, the size and the thickness of harpy eagle feet, toes and talons could be from an adaptation for hunting sloths?
sloths are not big, maybe 6 to 7 kilos, but the sloths developed great claws for hanging in tree branches, i imagine that they hanget with power,
and harpy need powwerfull thalons in order to snatch an sloth from its branch.
what's yor opinion especialy you Jorge and Atomik, because you have seen harpy for real?
many thanks !

[EagleMan]

and friends,
i did'nt imagine that the debate of the most powerfull eagle that i initiated is gonna be so succesfull, and many of you find this debate interesting.
i'll thank all of you :grin:

[EagleMan]

and Jorge, what kind of deers can capture the harpy >? mazama ?
in fact larges prey is an usual prey for harpy or is something rare . and the majority of harpy diet is compose by smaller monkeys, parrots , tree ant eaters and turaco?

[EagleMan]

Jorge, i hope you don't mind but the great bustard, Otis tarda by it's scientific name is not an prey for the martial eagle, because they don't meet in the wild.
otis tarda is a bird that lives only in Eastern Europe and the steppes of Asia , not even in historical times, the great bustard fly in africa, is an euroasiatic type bird.
also is the lagest flyng bird in the world, some cocks hunted in my native country of Romania, weighted as much as 18 kilos !

[EagleMan]

here comes the logical question : does anyone hunt great bustards with an eagle ?
it will be ineresting to fly martial eagles at great bustards.
i remember that an guy from u.s.a. fly martial eagles at wild turkeys in Texas :supz:

[HawkEagle]

Right there are afterall bird specialist eagle and mamal specailist eagle. What will happen if a mamal specialist try to catch birds? Would they fail drastically? If so why would they fail?

[EagleMan]

i don't think so....for example, crowned are mammal specialist and they hunt also guineea fowls, ibises and other water birds without problem:supz:

[StormRider]

Im sorry if this question has already been asked in a previous post. Does anyone know if a centre in the Uk has a harpy eagle. I would love to go and see one of these and take some photos.
Brilliant thread:-D

[HawkEagle]

Im sorry if this question has already been asked in a previous post. Does anyone know if a centre in the Uk has a harpy eagle. I would love to go and see one of these and take some photos.
Brilliant thread:-D
Sorry, never seen one in Brit. I have seen crowned eagle, Martial eagle and Black eagle in Brit but never seen any harpy.

[EagleMan]

hi hawk eagle
where did yuy see the crowned and martial eagles ?
thanks:grin:

[HawkEagle]

I saw a pair of crowned eagle is national bop center 8 years ago and they also have a male martial eagle. Also eagle heights in Kent has martial eagle.

[AccipiterFreak]

Japanese MHE is almost a different species to me, If you have the chance to compare several Asian hawkeagle species. If Javan HE and Philippine HE is a so different enough to be considered as a species, then Japanese Hawakeagle is different enough from other MHE subspecies to be considered as a "species", the imm/juv. plumage is so different from other MHE. They have dark face and marking on their brest/belly in their juv/imm plumage, which you don't find in other Spizeatus. There seemed to be a population of MHE breeding in Korea/Russian far East/Chinese Manchuria area. Almost no literatures mention this population. It will be fun to see their potential.

[Jay]

I was just reading through the forum and came across this post. Back on page 9 are pictures of my friend Alberto with his male crowned eagle. He also has a female, as they are part of his breeding project. He has also bred and hunted with Harpys. Ill ask him tomorrow what he thinks about Harpys vs. Crowns.

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Jay

"He has also bred and hunted with Harpys".

Talk more about your friend Alberto. What type of preys has he been hunting with Harpy, and where?

I know a friend that is training a male Harpia, it weighs 4.500 grams, but in the moment he had to stop the training and to travel. He said that they are birds that don't fear anything, in the moment that is on the prey, in that he offers the glove, she arises in the glove when wants, and this delay up to two hours.

Jorge

[EagleMan]

hello Jay !
and thank you much for your good willing. it will be more than great:supz:
Alberto Palleroni is more than an expert and his opinion is long avaited by me:-D

[Jay]

I do not rember much about what he said about the harpys. The Crowned eagles he called monster Goshawks, yet that are very layed back. He said they have the flight style similar to that of a Gos, and are flown great off the fist. While at the same time they are the eagle with the best temperment and he can touch his any where. I rember him telling me a story about one of his Crowneds takeing an ateleope. It grabbed it and went rolling into a bush, as soon as it hit the bush a nude couple ran out being rudly interupted.

Another one he told me was about leaving his jack russel in his eagle mews. After feeding one morning he accidently locked one of his jack russels in the eagle mews. He relised his mistake when he got to work and hurried home. He found the russel alive and well sleeping under the eagles who were just looking at him.

He worked as the director of the harpy breeding project in Panama for a number of years and told me about coping a large female down there. She was in a building that had tension wire support crossing each wall. The harpy got a foot loose and grabbed where these wires crossed and actualy started to pull the sides of the building in.

I might be meeting up with him tonight to get some telemitry to help track down his Gyr that got chased off by a wild eagle last week in my area. So I will ask him then. Also I was offered a possible position at one of the falconry schools over here, and he agreed to give me some eagle training experince to help get the job somtime after christmas. After that I should have some pictures and more information.

[EagleMan]

great, Jay
but how can i co:confused: ntact him?

[EagleMan]

sorry, i mean "contact him"

[Jay]

I'll ask him if I can give you his email.

[EagleMan]

many thanks:grin: :grin: :grin: i owe you !

[HawkEagle]

I cant believe it! one of the most fearful raptor is infact a very kind one. I love good mannered bird. I have actually seen a program about a place called Moholoholo, there they have a female crowned eagle. The bird fosters rearing baby and she was so well temperment that the owner could approach her nest checking the baby.

[EagleMan]

that's an exception, in south africa there are many reports of crowned snatching cats and dogs from backyards.
and any bird raised till egg to maturity act gentle with an human.

[HawkEagle]

Are there any subspicies of crowned eagle? They seem quite well distributed or could there be slight variation from one place to another?

[Afshimo]

if an eagle is imprinted, can they become more agreesive with age? Also, how should a imprint eagle be handled etc? Should you spend over an hour everyday or something?

Just wondering...

[EagleMan]

both harpy and crowned eagles are monotypic, neither of them have no subspecies.

[EagleMan]

i'v recently find out that the crowned is able to fly with an weight tht surpass the crowned 's by 4 times! in fact no other bird is able to do that,
is peciality books harpy are recorded to fly with an prey no bigger than 5 kilos ! too litle for an such a large raptor.
what did you know about this?

[CooperMan]

Does anybody know of anywhere that has actual figures for power in an eagles feet. One of the lads here heard 10,000psi as a figure for the pressure in an eagle's feet, in a display. But didn't find out where they got their info from.

[EagleMan]

unfortunately, nobody did that professionally, at least 5 from the most powerful spacies should be measured.
i think the problem will be solved by us, falconryforum people:supz: :supz: :supz:

[Tarqers]

Indeed the African crowned eagle is a very powerful bird that has been known to attack school children (in rural areas) walking to school.The last record of this was when an eagle attacked a eight year child on his way to school in South Africa. The eagle was "unfortunately" killed by a local woman with hoe. I have had the pleasure of rearing one of these magnificent birds while working at a rehab centre in South Africa. The bird was later passed onto a very experienced falconer to reintroduce it back to the wild -although I think he is still flying it.:?: :?:
well i cant beleive they let a recovering addict rear a bird,,,,tarqs

[Tarqers]

i think the harpy is missclasified its a giant goshawk,,,,tarqs

[EagleMan]

no, it have almost nothing in common with goshawk, harpy belongs to a subfamily of eagles called rainforest eagles.
only 4 species belong here; the harpy, phillipine eagle, guyana crested eagle, and new guineea harpy eagle,
these eagles seems to be the most primitive eagles, older than hawk eagles, aquila eagles, serpent eagles and sea eagles.

[Bibou]

Hi friends,

I see you have been working hard over christmas :yawinkle:

These pictures are taken from the book by Leslie H. Brown "Eagles of the World". He himself was an intimate expert of all raptors, but especially of crowned eagles. He had a pair in his backyard for a coulple of years in Nairobi / Kenya. He even got himself attacked by one. The pictures are to scale 1/3 in the book. For you guys I drew a line of 10 cm underneath the harpies foot (30 cm in reality) so that you can scale the pictures right.
Like we on this forum, Brown wonders about the need for the harpie's feet's strength:

"Most of the harpy group are forest or woodland birds, and are believed to eat mainly mammals. The feet of the Harpy are much the most powerful of any bird of prey. The 1 in thick tarsus of a female ends in a foot spanning 9-10 in, equipped with massive dagger-like talons more than 1,5in long. Such a foot is clearly adapted to dispatch large and powerful mammals, while the talons could be driven through and through the body of a young monkey to kill it almost instantly. Other members of this group lack such enormously powerful feet. Perhaps they do not need them, even if they live on arboreal monkeys. Monkeys are, for their size, relatively frail, nervous, und much more easily killed than antelopes or pig of equivalent weight. The eagle may also strike a monkey with such force that it dies by falling to the ground. The enourmously powerfulfeet of the Harpy are therefore a mystery at present."

:rolleyes: They still seem a mystery today... Not only is the average prey of the crowned heavier in weight, according to Brown it is eaven harder to kill weight for weight. Were there maybe other prey items in South America that today are extinct? Just an idea...

[EagleMan]

hello friends
if the drawing that showthe proportion of the feet are correct, the harpy is the winner, wjch i doubt because i see crowned talons as large as any harpy eagle's talons.

[EagleMan]

mistery is even deeper, the largest monkey hunted by crowned are baboons, and the baboons are much larger than any monkey from south america.
the cause for such a large talons for both harpy and crowned could be the monkeys, monkeys have large, and in the case of baboon , very large canines. and monkey are very agile and poverfull adversary, in respons the eagles should develop extreme feet and talons, so the monkey should die very quickly on the impact, in order not to hurt the eagle during the battle.

[EagleMan]

this could be the answer for the phillipine eagle. this species is very close relative of the harpy eagle, it is as big as harpy , and some birds are even bigger than harpy, but phillippine's feet and talons are as large as goldie !
and much of phillippine diet is composed from flyng lemurs, and a small percent of monkeys. interesting isn't ?

[EagleMan]

by the way, i'm etremely interested to find some raptor addicted friends, and some scolarship or sponsors, in order to travel and study the eagles in depht.
this is an very serious announcement

[Tarqers]

could the harpy feet be large to deal with slooth,two toed,big mothers,,,,tarqs

[NGuruve]

that a gd plan there eagleman y not go and study them and find out for ourselves sounds brilliant

[Bibou]

I can't imagine sloths to be the reason for the harpie's talons:
As their name says, they aren't really quick or vicious. Their tactic is to hide by moving extremely slowly or not at all, and camouflage: Algea growths inside hollow hairs of their fur and thus makes them even a little green. :!:

So speed of killing the sloth (see post by EagleMan about monkeys) is out of the question.

The only challenge with sloths is to remove them from the tree that they cling to. The harpy achieves this by flying by at high speed and then holding onto the sloth. Maybe with weaker legs, flying by at 50km/h with 8kg of weight would rip her feet off and leave the sloth still on the tree :roll:

[Jay]

I have seen some video of harpys taking sloths that my friend took while working down in Panama. It really is amazing they just come right on in grab the sloth by the head with one foot and keep going.

[EagleMan]

thiscould be finnally the cause bibou! snatching sloths coul be a problem for weaker legs, but i'v seen croned takink larger monkeys so half of the mystery remain

[EagleMan]

and in the final, crowned is the winner, because is more voracious, determined andhunt the largest prey, so for the purpose of falconry, crowned seems to be the best choice:supz:

[EagleMan]

that's of course untill someone will fly both species at similar prey, only then we will know for sure wich one is the deadliest!!!!
i hope that day will come as soon as possible:supz:

[Biarmicus]

Hi,

This turned out to be an excellent thread about eagles, lots of useful and interesting information! As with all raptors, large eagles interest me, especially the Harpy Eagle. I must say I have learned a lot from this thread, thank you for sharing this information, I appreciate it.

I'm sorry if this thread has finished, but I very recently found an interesting website regarding Harpy Eagles: http://www.aguilaharpia.org/index.html Unfortunately I don't know what language it is written in, though they have amazing photographs of adult and immature Harpy Eagles.


Brittney :)

[NGuruve]

wow thanks for that nice find shame about the language but o well nice photos

[Starsky]

that's of course untill someone will fly both species at similar prey, only then we will know for sure wich one is the deadliest!!!!
i hope that day will come as soon as possible:supz:
I once found a book about 20 years ago, cant remember the name of it and it was from a library. It was a book on falconry and hawking and it had a picture of a guy holding a harpy eagle, cant remember what sex it was but in the foot notes it mentioned that he used to control the local free range dog population with it. Does anyone have this book, would be great to find out all the details.

[EagleMan]

i'v heard about an south african who fly an crowned eagle at an pit bull, and the pit bull lost in 2 and a half minutes!

[NGuruve]

haha iknow i should laugh at that eagle man but in the pit bulls face stupid guy though but just shows how powerful the african crowned is and how BRAVE

[Kumben]

I have just picked up this thread now - great! I saw a juvenile African Crowned Eagle that had been raised from a chick, at a black Gameranger's house in Harare in 1994. It was about 2 years old then and its feet were bigger than my own hands spread out. I will try to find the picture and scan it in.
have a book by Peter Steyn called "Eagle Days". There is a chapter on Crowned eagles and he has pictures of the female flying to the nest and calling on the branch next to the nest. He said in the book "the branch was as thick as a man's thigh and her talons wrapped round over the top of it".
The chick they had fledged at 115 days.
Awesome...

[EagleMan]

I have just picked up this thread now - great! I saw a juvenile African Crowned Eagle that had been raised from a chick, at a black Gameranger's house in Harare in 1994. It was about 2 years old then and its feet were bigger than my own hands spread out. I will try to find the picture and scan it in.
have a book by Peter Steyn called "Eagle Days". There is a chapter on Crowned eagles and he has pictures of the female flying to the nest and calling on the branch next to the nest. He said in the book "the branch was as thick as a man's thigh and her talons wrapped round over the top of it".
The chick they had fledged at 115 days.
Awesome...
hy kumben!, where i can find this book?
regards

[EagleMan]

look at this splendor, i hope somebody, anybody understand me:supz:

[EagleMan]

another head shot in detail....:supz:

[EagleMan]

amazing creature:supz:

[BHawk]

hello friends !
i'v read that the african crowned eagle could be the most powerfull eagle in the world, in fact, most of crowned eagle prey species are larger than harpy eagles.
literature confirm even adult baboon, a 37 kilo antelope and even human remains ao an eyrie.
what is your opinion about that ? and, by the way, is the african crowned eagle an raptor suited for falconry?
many thanks and.....excuse my english.....

lucky person to be ate by an eagle, i would feel privelaged!:lol:

[NGuruve]

eagleman i agree with you totally the crowned is the ultimate and best bird in my opinion and looks awsume brill pics

[Popovic]

Hi eagle fans!!!!
Here are some pictures of golden.

[Sandeep]

I think a Harpy is more powerful than an African Crowned Eagle ( ACE ). Though I personally like an ACE than a Harpy. Please correct me if I am wrong, the hunting areas of both the birds are completely different. The ACE hunts in more open grounds and hence is in a better position to judge its angle of approach etc whereas a Harpy hunts in the rainforest and seldom hunts in open ground. Any mistake would topple the scales completely. But if the Harpy were to hunt in open ground as well... I feel she would be the meanest hunter of the sky:twisted: :twisted: ... What do you guys think :?:

[NorthenEnglandHawker]

I think a Harpy is more powerful than an African Crowned Eagle ( ACE ). Though I personally like an ACE than a Harpy. Please correct me if I am wrong, the hunting areas of both the birds are completely different. The ACE hunts in more open grounds and hence is in a better position to judge its angle of approach etc whereas a Harpy hunts in the rainforest and seldom hunts in open ground. Any mistake would topple the scales completely. But if the Harpy were to hunt in open ground as well... I feel she would be the meanest hunter of the sky:twisted: :twisted: ... What do you guys think :?:


totlay agree with you been abit sad here and did a bit of googling and found out that a harpy has a crushing power of 500lb per sqr inch:shock: so times that by her/his weight and you have the full power of a harpy eagle

[EagleMan]

I think a Harpy is more powerful than an African Crowned Eagle ( ACE ). Though I personally like an ACE than a Harpy. Please correct me if I am wrong, the hunting areas of both the birds are completely different. The ACE hunts in more open grounds and hence is in a better position to judge its angle of approach etc whereas a Harpy hunts in the rainforest and seldom hunts in open ground. Any mistake would topple the scales completely. But if the Harpy were to hunt in open ground as well... I feel she would be the meanest hunter of the sky:twisted: :twisted: ... What do you guys think :?:
not at all sandeep, harpy is bigger,not much more powerfull, if it is to be powerful than ACE, in animal world biggest is not allways the meanest, read the topic more carefully sandeep ! remember that ACE hunt regulary the largest prey , is scientifical documented. not even the harpy or other eagle species hunt large prey as often as ACE. proportionally ACE is the strongest birg in the world, again scientifically prowed in an Animal Planet documentary about the strongest animals, i think ACE is a fae skilled bird for falconry than harpy....until proven:wink:

[EagleMan]

crowned eagles can breed succesfully in captivity too, great:supz:

[EagleMan]

in zoos too:)

[NGuruve]

haha eagle man they are the most powerful and useful to us i agree but ive heardthey can be gentle i know a guy in zimbabwe that handled a crowned with a welding glove which was brave

[EagleMan]

great pics , n'guruve, thanks, here is a pic for the harpy fanciers, truly a big bird, but the harpy is kept by an young girl and this is why the bird coul look very big....

[EagleMan]

this time, for comparison, is an adult male harpy eagle , kept by a man:supz:

[EagleMan]

another harpy eagle, despite it's huge size , the harpy cant look as fearsome as the crowned eagle...

[EagleMan]

harpy eagle, just what i said......

[EagleMan]

i mean check this pic...

[Miguel]

great pics , n'guruve, thanks, here is a pic for the harpy fanciers, truly a big bird, but the harpy is kept by an young girl and this is why the bird coul look very big....
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=13495&stc=1&d=1146425073

This is the same harpy I've handled in the US. She's a 5/6 year old female now. And it's not from the picture, she really is big. But calm as you wouldn't imagine...

[Jester]

Lovely bird there :heart: #



and the eagle is pretty damn fine too :supz:

[GriffMJ]

Beauty & The beast!!!! Look at those feet.... i would be changing my pants on a regular basis with that thing on my arm!!
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=13495&stc=1&d=1146425073

[Berkut]

Beauty & The beast!!!! Look at those feet.... i would be changing my pants on a regular basis with that thing on my arm!!
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=13495&stc=1&d=1146425073
I,D BE CHANGING MY PANTS IF I WAS THE EAGLE !!!!

[Harris]

I haven't read this thread all the way through, but has anyone mentioned the Marsh Eagle? they have to be up there near the top of the most powerfull eagle league.

[Afshimo]

Hi

whats the latin name? doesnt seem to be a marsh eagle on google lol.

Hannah

[Harris]

Hi

whats the latin name? doesnt seem to be a marsh eagle on google lol.

Hannah

I have no idea Hannah Im sorry, I know about them because we have the only female Marsh eagle in the UK at the centre where I volunteer. I will try to find out tho.

[Harris]

Hannah, I just re-googled it and found this site it has a link to a video of the marsh eagle, I haven't watched it yet as its down loading. The link is about half way down in the 9th paragraph. :lol:

http://www.patstravels.com/Africa%20continued.htm

[PDF]

Largest of the African eagles is the Martial Eagle ?? (sounds almost the same) otherwise I can't find an African Marsh Eagle (as opposed to African marsh eagle).

[Harris]

Largest of the African eagles is the Martial Eagle ?? (sounds almost the same) otherwise I can't find an African Marsh Eagle (as opposed to African marsh eagle).

:oops: Its my fault, you are dead right it is the Martial Eagle!! I was thinking of her name which is Marsh!! lol :lol: :roll: PMSL

[PDF]

Just finished looking at the video - was going to add that it looks very much like a Martial Eagle. :)

[Harris]

Just finished looking at the video - was going to add that it looks very much like a Martial Eagle. :)


:oops: I've had a long day! and it didn't help that, that video was of a Marsh eagle:roll: But its definately a Martial!!

[JayHawk]

great pics , n'guruve, thanks, here is a pic for the harpy fanciers, truly a big bird, but the harpy is kept by an young girl and this is why the bird coul look very big....

that is the biggest bop i have ever seen on the fist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone got any pics on the fist that really show the scale of the bird next to a person that could top that one.

jay

[JayHawk]

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=13495&stc=1&d=1146425073

This is the same harpy I've handled in the US. She's a 5/6 year old female now. And it's not from the picture, she really is big. But calm as you wouldn't imagine...


this one

[Joey]

now if i was a monkey i would not move out of the tree if that was about




joet

[Harris]

now if i was a monkey i would not move out of the tree if that was about




joet


I wouldn't move full stop!!:lol:

[Joey]

I wouldn't move full stop!!:lol:pmsl wonder if it took any young kids messing around in trees

[Maxell]

we have the only female Marsh eagle in the UK at the centre where I volunteer. I will try to find out tho.

Your wrong about having the only female martial in the UK, there is a least a successful breeding pair in the UK.

[Harris]

Your wrong about having the only female martial in the UK, there is a least a successful breeding pair in the UK.

Not to my knowledge, but you may be right! can you get some details of who has them or where they are m8, I would be interested :yawinkle:

[Joey]

is this what it looks like harris



joey

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

I know of at least another five. Rex Merrit immported a load that started braking legs and falling to bits.

[Harris]

is this what it looks like harris



joey


Yup thats her mate, The one at the centre is called Marsh (actually her real name is MARTI), so thats why I got confused over the type of eagle, (Marsh/Martial) lol I was having a bad day yesterday also I think I am correct in saying that she is the largest flying bird in the UK.

[Joey]

they are brilliant looking birds got a dvd with one on chasing a deer in africa



joey

[Harris]

they are brilliant looking birds got a dvd with one on chasing a deer in africa



joey


what makes me laugh is the sound they make, they sound like a little chaffinch, soft gentle tittle chirping! :rolleyes:

[Joey]

ye but i rather see a chaffinch chasing me than that lol



joey

[Harris]

ye but i rather see a chaffinch chasing me than that lol



joey


Your not wrong! you should see her feet!! she weighs 13lb and is used for hunting deer and fox :rolleyes:

[Onyx25]

Yup thats her mate, The one at the centre is called Marsh (actually her real name is MARTI), so thats why I got confused over the type of eagle, (Marsh/Martial) lol I was having a bad day yesterday also I think I am correct in saying that she is the largest flying bird in the UK.
Safe to say she isn't my friend. Just out of interest what wieght is she.

[Joey]

Your not wrong! you should see her feet!! she weighs 13lb and is used for hunting deer and fox :rolleyes:wow would love to see that done av you been out with her



joey

[Harris]

around 13lb, this is her

[Harris]

wow would love to see that done av you been out with her



joey


No she is hunted through the winter then stays at the centre for the summer, I would love to tho!!

[Joey]

is that you with her lol

[Joey]

around 13lb, this is hershes a monster gutted if i was a fox when that about lol


joey

[Harris]

is that you with her lol


errrr no! I don't get that close lol theres a pic of me on the rate the member thread, I'm the good looking one :lol:

[Joey]

errrr no! I don't get that close lol theres a pic of me on the rate the member thread, I'm the good looking one :lol:pmsl and i was goin to say that dude should stop eating all the pies lol

[Harris]

pmsl and i was goin to say that dude should stop eating all the pies lol


PMSL I think its all the Venision! :yawinkle:

[Joey]

pmsl :lol:

[Talon]

jayhawk and harris thats some birds you have there.
both got some feet on them.there cracking birds.:supz:

[NGuruve]

here are some crowned eagle pics

[Harris]

She ain't my bird mate, I just volunteer at the centre, Don't think I could handle such a large budgie as that, maybe one day tho.......nice to dream :lol:

[Maxell]

also I think I am correct in saying that she is the largest flying bird in the UK.

Sorry a condor is the largest flown in the UK.

[Harris]

Sorry a condor is the largest flown in the UK.


and Hunted?

[Maxell]

and Hunted?

You didn't say that.

[NGuruve]

some more

[Joey]

some morenice birds



joey

[karamia]

I've seen the Bird at Harris' Centre, shes a beaut!! bloody huge tho!!:)
Got a pic of her on my phone, but dont know how to get it on here!! :rolleyes:

[Harris]

I've seen the Bird at Harris' Centre, shes a beaut!! bloody huge tho!!:)
Got a pic of her on my phone, but dont know how to get it on here!! :rolleyes:


Hi Kara, when were you at the centre? btw its not my centre lol but I know what you mean, (where I help out) I have to be carefull or ppl will get the wrong idea :rolleyes:

[karamia]

Hi Harris, Yep thats what i meant!:D
Was there about 2 weeks ago. They flew the kites and One sat in the tree!!
Was it you flying the Harris hawk?? Was her name bonnie or something??

[Harris]

Hi Harris, Yep thats what i meant!:D
Was there about 2 weeks ago. They flew the kites and One sat in the tree!!
Was it you flying the Harris hawk?? Was her name bonnie or something??

Wasn't there that day, that would have been Colin who flew Bonnie, I flew her last Sat, she had a problem with blood sugar, and footed colin daughter in the face! but she is back to her placid self now and flew well last week.:D

[Joey]

Wasn't there that day, that would have been Colin who flew Bonnie, I flew her last Sat, she had a problem with blood sugar, and footed colin daughter in the face! but she is back to her placid self now and flew well last week.:Done angry bird that if it footied a kid in the kipper



joey

[karamia]

We may go there tomorrow. My boyfriend is getting a bit obsessed with birds!:lol: of the feathered variety i might add!!

He helps out at the festival park bird sanctuary. He's very keen to learn!:roll:

[Harris]

one angry bird that if it footied a kid in the kipper



joey


She was at the time, but as I said she is fine now, just increased her meals to 2 small meals a day instead of 1 larger one, couple of days she was happy again.

Anyway a little off thread here :rolleyes:

[Roberto]

Golden

[NGuruve]

brilliant pic of the goldern there with the wolf but i feel that a wolf no mater how large is no comparison to a baboon that a crowned can hunt in the wild:supz:

were is that pic from?

[NGuruve]

martial eagles

[Chase0109]

brilliant pic of the goldern there with the wolf but i feel that a wolf no mater how large is no comparison to a baboon that a crowned can hunt in the wild:supz:

were is that pic from?

NGuruve you have posted some great pics. But you are giving the crowned eagle too much credit. I have read this quote about crowneds catching baboons a couple times in this thread. On the extreme occasion a crowned eagle may catch a baboon, but it don't happen very often. Baboons are much too dangerous for any bird species to regularly catch. Also goldens don't catch wolves as regular prey. But under falconry conditions both species can be trained to take unnatural quarry.

My two cents is either the harpy or Philippine monkey eating eagle are the world strongest eagles. And given my choice of all birds, give me a male Martial eagle any day.

Chase

[Wingless]

Out of interest where did the info come from that a crowned could kill a baboon? A baby im sure but an adult olive baboon is one hell of a powerhouse and with a temper to rival most other animals! Ive worked with them and known them to pull sheep through electric fences (designed to keep the baboons in) and tear the sheep to pieces. They will even fight to such lengths as they pull each others limbs off. I saw one adult male which had been in a fight have his lower left cheek completely removed and he was happily eating minutes later, all the food dropping through the hole! Even if the eagle got a baboon by the head it could simply reach round and pull the eagle to pieces. Heres a picture of a small male yet to reach maturity.

[EagleMan]

NGuruve you have posted some great pics. But you are giving the crowned eagle too much credit. I have read this quote about crowneds catching baboons a couple times in this thread. On the extreme occasion a crowned eagle may catch a baboon, but it don't happen very often. Baboons are much too dangerous for any bird species to regularly catch. Also goldens don't catch wolves as regular prey. But under falconry conditions both species can be trained to take unnatural quarry.

My two cents is either the harpy or Philippine monkey eating eagle are the world strongest eagles. And given my choice of all birds, give me a male Martial eagle any day.

Chase
well my frend i'm afraid you are overated:wink: according to some ornithologists crowned eagle hunt baboons often, one of the worlds authority in crowned eagles, mr. Paul Myburgh has monitorized an pait specialized in baboon hunts, according to him the most dangerous prey of the crowned eagles are not baboons at all but chimps, and i belive he is right. chimps are far more powerful than baboons, even if they hunt only baby chimps, imagine how risky is to snach the baby between the goup members.....
Harpy MIGHT BE the world's more pwerful eagle, after all this is the purbose of this thread, but belive me , an harpy never hunt in the wild prey as large and dangerous as the crowned, and pound by pund....just drop it !
philippine eagle ? another large eagle....nothing more, just compare their feet with those of the crowned ...related to goldie and wolves ...is another disscution and i'm out of time.

[Miguel]

Heres something you probably wouldn't like to see... :rolleyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/miguel_alambre/Harpyattack.jpg

[Chase0109]

well my frend i'm afraid you are overated:wink: according to some ornithologists crowned eagle hunt baboons often, one of the worlds authority in crowned eagles, mr. Paul Myburgh has monitorized an pait specialized in baboon hunts, according to him the most dangerous prey of the crowned eagles are not baboons at all but chimps, and i belive he is right. chimps are far more powerful than baboons, even if they hunt only baby chimps, imagine how risky is to snach the baby between the goup members.....
Harpy MIGHT BE the world's more pwerful eagle, after all this is the purbose of this thread, but belive me , an harpy never hunt in the wild prey as large and dangerous as the crowned, and pound by pund....just drop it !
philippine eagle ? another large eagle....nothing more, just compare their feet with those of the crowned ...related to goldie and wolves ...is another disscution and i'm out of time.

I can't cite any literature on crowned eagle hunting behavoir to prove or disprove your theory. But I can use common scence to rationalize the fact that there is no way crowned eagles use baboons and chimps as regular meals. I can see the odd sick, injured, or young animal being taken. But definitly not a healty adult animal of either species. Also any young (baboons) taken would have to be very small, or on their own away from the group. The reason I say this if the prey weighs more than half the birds weight it isn't going to be able to carry it. Therefor forcing the eagle to eat its meal on the ground. And no eagle stands a chance of fighting off a pack of ****ed off baboons or chimps for that matter. I can say that troops of baboons have been known to kill leopards in defense of another troop member or young.

The main reason I commented in the fist place is the quote that a crowned killed a 37kg baboon and the implication that they do it regularly. There is no amount of money in the world that would get me in a cage with a ****ed off 75 pound adult baboon. I could see very favorable circumstances (ie sick, old, injured prey) letting the the eagle take a single specimin like this. But were talking once in a life time.

I agree that the crowned is a very strong bird, and formidable predator. But like all other eagles they are smart and very vulnerable. If it was ingrained in this species to hunt such large dangerous prey as baboons or chimps the crowned eagle would have gone extinct long ago. My two cents.

Chase

[Sandeep]

Like I have said earlier Harpys hunt in dense cover and hence cannot risk cathing something vry large and specially ground dwelling animals as they are hen very vulerable due to the thick forest cover. But the martial on the other hand has open plains and time to stalk and hunt down its prey. A serval also can bring down a crowned eagle if it is hard presed for food.

Pound to pound I think a Harpy is the strongest...

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Heres something you probably wouldn't like to see... :rolleyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/miguel_alambre/Harpyattack.jpg
Wouldnt mind too much if it were coming onto my back to give semen!!! LOL.

[Miguel]

LOL K!! That's the female... Glad there was something between her and the camera!!

[EagleMan]

I can't cite any literature on crowned eagle hunting behavoir to prove or disprove your theory. But I can use common scence to rationalize the fact that there is no way crowned eagles use baboons and chimps as regular meals. I can see the odd sick, injured, or young animal being taken. But definitly not a healty adult animal of either species. Also any young (baboons) taken would have to be very small, or on their own away from the group. The reason I say this if the prey weighs more than half the birds weight it isn't going to be able to carry it. Therefor forcing the eagle to eat its meal on the ground. And no eagle stands a chance of fighting off a pack of ****ed off baboons or chimps for that matter. I can say that troops of baboons have been known to kill leopards in defense of another troop member or young.

The main reason I commented in the fist place is the quote that a crowned killed a 37kg baboon and the implication that they do it regularly. There is no amount of money in the world that would get me in a cage with a ****ed off 75 pound adult baboon. I could see very favorable circumstances (ie sick, old, injured prey) letting the the eagle take a single specimin like this. But were talking once in a life time.

I agree that the crowned is a very strong bird, and formidable predator. But like all other eagles they are smart and very vulnerable. If it was ingrained in this species to hunt such large dangerous prey as baboons or chimps the crowned eagle would have gone extinct long ago. My two cents.

Chase

partially true Chase, indeed an crowned eagle will not attack an healhy, adult male baboon, despite the fact that one falconer hunt once an male olive baboon with his crowned female, in the wild they rarely take baboon, with afew exception, if the eagle manage to be in the proper position, even the stronger baboon will die instantly, you don't belive me ? there are several cases registered in russia and central asia, in wich SOME golden eagles KILL THEIR TRAINERS, and belive me am man weights more than an baboon, and an golden eagle is by far not as strong as an crowned eagle...

[EagleMan]

African crowned eagles ARE NOT FULLY STUDIATED ! but all specialists thas somehaw get to know this eagle conclusioned that crowned eagles are abnormally powerfull even for an eagle species.. . if someone some day will make a full sientific study about the harpy vs. crowned in order to find who is more powerfull, and the crowned fail this title. this is because simply harpy is larger and nothing more, but belive me, crowned is more ferocious, determined, aggresive, persuasive, and fitted for the job, after all this species hunt the LARGEST prey in the world of raptors:supz:

[EagleMan]

is'n a beautiful eagle too?

[EagleMan]

Like I have said earlier Harpys hunt in dense cover and hence cannot risk cathing something vry large and specially ground dwelling animals as they are hen very vulerable due to the thick forest cover. But the martial on the other hand has open plains and time to stalk and hunt down its prey. A serval also can bring down a crowned eagle if it is hard presed for food.

Pound to pound I think a Harpy is the strongest...
in fact in the wild serval cats fall regular prey to martial eagles, because they live in the same habitat, open savanna, but there was some cases in wich this cats were hunted by crowned eagles too, the reverse is walable only when serval manage to kill an juvenile innexperienced eagle...

[Wingless]

Eagleman - are you being paid by a crowned eagle breeder? lol


Robbie

[EagleMan]

brilliant pic of the goldern there with the wolf but i feel that a wolf no mater how large is no comparison to a baboon that a crowned can hunt in the wild:supz:

were is that pic from?
NGruve, my friend, an wolf is larger than an baboon, in my country the record was a 70 kilo male hunted in 1967.... baboon have fer longer canines than any wolf, but they are somehaw fragile, and the wolf posses much stronger bite force, anyway crowned is more powerfull than the goldie...

[EagleMan]

martial eagle is another eye catching eagle...in a contest between martial eagle and golden eagle i'n sure themartial will winn, at least is more beautiful:supz:

[EagleMan]

here with prey...

[EagleMan]

would you like to see this on your telegraph tower?

[EagleMan]

sorry, i mean this pic....

[EagleMan]

damn, it dont work....

[NGuruve]

NGruve, my friend, an wolf is larger than an baboon, in my country the record was a 70 kilo male hunted in 1967.... baboon have fer longer canines than any wolf, but they are somehaw fragile, and the wolf posses much stronger bite force, anyway crowned is more powerfull than the goldie...
i know a wolf is larger im saying that a baboon is more dangerous prey as it has hands and can grab a bird the wolf has a bite that will kil any bird but a baboon is far more dangerous for a bird to take on babonn chase of and large male baboons kill leopards which attach there familys so i think a leopard is more dangerous than a wolf?

[EagleMan]

here is an crowned eagle from south africa, definetly a bitd capable to kill an full adult human being....

[EagleMan]

and here is the world renoved harpy expert Neil Rettig with his harpy , an female, great bird but the crowned is more beautiful, i'dont know but he harpy , despite it's power looks more like an owl face...

[EagleMan]

the same bird , another angle

[Tim Laycock]

baboon have fer longer canines than any wolf, but they are somehaw fragile,

This is a silly statment!

In taking a wolf all that is required is to "mask" the quarry and imobilise the hind quaters

"Mask" a baboon and imobilise its hund quaters, then see how fruity it gets with its arms and hands with opposable thumbs.

If it came down to a fist fight with an adult Baboon and a wolf I think I would rather fight the wolf :!:

[EagleMan]

Eagleman - are you being paid by a crowned eagle breeder? lol


Robbie
man, this is one of my dream, lol, lol, lol, this should be great, i intend to even work for free for an eagle breeder, i just love eagles and i intend to fing wich is the most poverfull and deadly spesies as well as wich is the best thunter , i mean eagle for falconry. lol, man, looking at my posts, it really look like i'm payed by an eagle breeder, lol, lol

[EagleMan]

This is a silly statment!

In taking a wolf all that is required is to "mask" the quarry and imobilise the hind quaters

"Mask" a baboon and imobilise its hund quaters, then see how fruity it gets with its arms and hands with opposable thumbs.

If it came down to a fist fight with an adult Baboon and a wolf I think I would rather fight the wolf :!:
i mean baboons have more fragile canines than wolves, and yes baboons are harder to imobilise,but if the eagle manage to grip baboon's muzzle with one foot and grab the , skull,the neck or baboon's spine then the monkey is doomed.

[Tim Laycock]

Yes but what is the baboon trying to do while the eagle is trying to manouver for the death grip?

Answer........trying to remove the eagles wings with its strong little arms using the grip afforded by its opposible thumbs!

[EagleMan]

the showdown between crowned eagle and the baboon could be described in martial arts terms as -"sen no sen" this is translated as "innitiative right over your adversary's innitiative". this mean that if the eagle make the first move, and grab the monkey from the begening , he'll winn. and don't worry about baboons little hands cos' the eagle squeez so hard that the monkey hardly react after the eagle catch FIRST with his enormous talons. of course the opposite may happen, but as Paul MYBURGH says "in their relation, the crowned eagle is still the predator", and mister Myburgh is one of the world's very few experts in crowned eagles.

[EagleMan]

[ My two cents is either the harpy or Philippine monkey eating eagle are the world strongest eagles. And given my choice of all birds, give me a male Martial eagle any day.

Chase[/QUOTE]
my friend , you'r half right. philippine eagle may be the world's longest eagle, and second in weight to harpy, but is far from beyng more powerfull and ferocious than crowned eagle, just compare those two legs and prey that is taken... i want too an martial eagle:grin: but how?

[Sandeep]

I still believe that the Harpy is the most powerful eagle.... In the second picture the harpy eagle has crouched because .... a todler entered the room and the eagle was naturally keen ...:twisted:

I have read it on the net...

[Tim Laycock]

the showdown between crowned eagle and the baboon could be described in martial arts terms as -"sen no sen" this is translated as "innitiative right over your adversary's innitiative". this mean that if the eagle make the first move, and grab the monkey from the begening , he'll winn. and don't worry about baboons little hands cos' the eagle squeez so hard that the monkey hardly react after the eagle catch FIRST with his enormous talons. of course the opposite may happen, but as Paul MYBURGH says "in their relation, the crowned eagle is still the predator", and mister Myburgh is one of the world's very few experts in crowned eagles.

Says it all for me. :-|

I have enough "If's" to deal with :lol:

I take my hat off to anyone who is willing to take the risks involved square on the chin

[EagleMan]

Says it all for me. :-|

I have enough "If's" to deal with :lol:

I take my hat off to anyone who is willing to take the risks involved square on the chin[/QUOTE]
hey man, in case you didn't noticed i'm not english, welsh, scottish, or american, so english is not my native language and i have to learn english by myself from some manuals and watching tv. so for instance i don't know what you mean by the expression "square on the chin" for example. and today i posted from my job's office, and i didn't have in off time to correct myself. i will appreciate more if you stop being ironic and meditate a little about that. no offence

[Tim Laycock]

hey man, in case you didn't noticed i'm not english, welsh, scottish, or american, so english is not my native language and i have to learn english by myself from some manuals and watching tv. so for instance i don't know what you mean by the expression "square on the chin" for example. and today i posted from my job's office, and i didn't have in off time to correct myself. i will appreciate more if you stop being ironic and meditate a little about that. no offence

Wheres the Irony? :rolleyes:

Take it square on the chin.............Willing to face the risk and not be put off by it.

Is that any more simple?

[EagleMan]

Says it all for me. :-|

I have enough "If's" to deal with :lol:

I take my hat off to anyone who is willing to take the risks involved square on the chin
hey man, in case you didn't noticed i'm not english, welsh, scottish, or american, so english is not my native language and i have to learn english by myself from some manuals and watching tv. so for instance i don't know what you mean by the expression "square on the chin" for example. and today i posted from my job's office, and i didn't have in off time to correct myself. i will appreciate more if you stop being ironic and meditate a little about that. no offence[/QUOTE]
blackbird, what can i say...i read your message after i posted that...i wrote it back to you but it seems that your mailbox is full and you might not receive my e mail. but forget it. after all this is why we must have the sense of humour:-D

[Mac]

great topic , and one that my friends and i have disscussed many a time on the way to lamping venues with the dogs. a very good friend of mine who is a university lecturer did a lot of work in force dynamics as part of his phd he is of the opinion that

the harpy is the most powerful of all eagles.

the stellars is the largest, ie mass

while the african crowned eagle is a truly impresive hunting bird and probably the post powerful of africas raptors, realistically the harpy is just a larger version.

it would also be a wise move to disregard any dog size weight scenarios 'cos a fifty pound pit bull is no match for even a sixty pound rottweiller which is why the old dog fighters would insist that their unfortunate charges would weigh the same before a bout would take place...its true of men too which is why the heavyweight boxing champion of the world would beat all other divisions!

i wonder how all the contenders would fare against the long extinct haasts eagle from new zealand.... not very well i fear!

[EagleMan]

it would also be a wise move to disregard any dog size weight scenarios 'cos a fifty pound pit bull is no match for even a sixty pound rottweiller which is why the old dog fighters would insist that their unfortunate charges would weigh the same before a bout would take place...its true of men too which is why the heavyweight boxing champion of the world would beat all other divisions!

*edited this section of the post*

comparig dogs with raptors is not relevant at all, and until some one will compare and measure some parameters of harpy and crowned, we just can guess and discuss various ipothesis.

[Parabuteo.de]

*edited by mass*

[Chase0109]

[/QUOTE]
my friend , you'r half right. philippine eagle may be the world's longest eagle, and second in weight to harpy, but is far from beyng more powerfull and ferocious than crowned eagle, just compare those two legs and prey that is taken... i want too an martial eagle:grin: but how?[/QUOTE]

Well just have to agree to disagree on what is the worlds strongest eagle. I personally believe it to be the Philippine Monkey Eating Eagle or the Harpy Eagle. You clearly believe it to be the African Crowned Eagle. Prey is no measure of strength. But everyone is entitled to there own opinion.

Well you have three choices if you want a Martial. Either you have LOTS of money and you buy one from a breeder, you have lots of time and money and legally import a passage, or you get good at smuggleing and get your own.

Chase

[EagleMan]

. Prey is no measure of strength Chase[/QUOTE]

do you belive that? if prey is not a mesure of some predator's strenght , then what might be?
size? not at all, many predators developed a large body mass in order to protect their prey by other predators. this of course is not the case of BOP...and your tottaly right about martial eagles, what is the best choice for you?:)

[EagleMan]

an female crowned eagle, i hope this man will keep her feet away from him:supz:

[MickeyDredd]

Nice hawking vest ;) :lol:

[Richard]

I jst had the thought of him running on the scottish moors with his pointer and pere :supz:

pmsl

Some impressive pictures, what bird has the largest power:size ratio do you think?

[NGuruve]

I jst had the thought of him running on the scottish moors with his pointer and pere :supz:

pmsl

Some impressive pictures, what bird has the largest power:size ratio do you think?
i reckon the crowned defo has the largest power to sze ratio come one what can compare?:supz:

[Richard]

Well a sparrow hawk or something, that might be me being abit silly but theres no data for these sort of things is there?

[NGuruve]

Well a sparrow hawk or something, that might be me being abit silly but theres no data for these sort of things is there?
haha yer maybe but i was just going on sizw to prey ratio and that is natural prey that is taken regularly surel that is a measure on strength and courage:supz:

[Richard]

lol you mean like a sparrowhaw taking a hen pheasant ;) ?

[Taffwall]

what an incredible thread. i have never seen such amazing pics ever.:supz:
its amazing to see what birds get flown throughout the world.
those feet/talons are frightening.

[OutFlying]

lol you mean like a sparrowhaw taking a hen pheasant ;) ?

Do they do this consistently ? or in the wild - answer probably not.

Jim.

[NGuruve]

have a look at the feet of the black eagle and of a young crowned eagle awsume:rolleyes:

[Richard]

Do they do this consistently ? or in the wild - answer probably not.

Jim.

Just possible senario...

[Gozzhawk]

Very interesting debate . One of the things to consider is the evolutionary ladder , where did these birds evolve from , what extinct prey did their relatives hunt??
With regards to most powerful feet I would ask if bone density has been studied and how could you measure the force of a flexor tendon of each , there are just so many variables .

One thing we all agree on is these birds are STUNNING.
I would though question the ethics of hunting large prey , if i love my bird i will not push it that way , yes i would fly it hard , ie large falcon 6 times a day in heavy winds taking Lesser Black Backs .
Bit of a purist also but have worked with Goldie /Steppe Hybrid and the female was the most powerful feet i have worked with.
Thanks all , we will learn from each other!!

[HawkEagle]

I reckon bop graping power relies on their tarsus more than the span of their feet. Maybe who has the thickest tarsus will be more powerful. Also with the bird these size they all have have enough power to drive their talons through therefore who process larger talons will kill larger prey.

[OutFlying]

Just possible senario...

an unlikely one, not impossible but unlikely.

[NGuruve]

an unlikely one, not impossible but unlikely.
i agree a sparrow hawk is a lightly built lil bird hunter and is fagile compared even to a cooper's or somehting of simmilar size so not really that great power for size if it only takes small feathered game were as a crowned only weights 4 kg's and will take large dangerous prey 3 times tis weight in the wild just my thoughts

[EagleMan]

ha, ha ,ha did enybody tried to compare the sparrow hawk with the crowned eagle? ha ha ha ha ha

[NGuruve]

ha, ha ,ha did enybody tried to compare the sparrow hawk with the crowned eagle? ha ha ha ha ha
haha yup but not even a contest obviously have you got anymore pics of crowned? anybody

[Richard]

ha, ha ,ha did enybody tried to compare the sparrow hawk with the crowned eagle? ha ha ha ha ha

I threw a suggestion up in the air that another BoP might of had a bigger power to weight ratio, my example (a bad 1) was a sparrowhawk?

Jeeese man remove yourself from the crowned eagles a** :lol: :roll:

[NGuruve]

I threw a suggestion up in the air that another BoP might of had a bigger power to weight ratio, my example (a bad 1) was a sparrowhawk?

Jeeese man remove yourself from the crowned eagles a** :lol: :roll:
there is nothing wrong with likeing a certian bird of prey that you hold above the rest im sure you have your favs

[Richard]

there is nothing wrong with likeing a certian bird of prey that you hold above the rest im sure you have your favs

True, but perhaps showing a little more in the way of negotiation would help?

A healthy discussion never hurt anyone...

[EagleMan]

hi tistel, it's clear that a healthy discussion never hurt anyone, but what's your ideea?
crowned eagle are pound per pound the most powerful and formidable raptor, there are scientifical studies in that way. i cannot understand what you want to say about the sparrow hawk? thanks!

[Richard]

hi tistel, it's clear that a healthy discussion never hurt anyone, but what's your ideea?
crowned eagle are pound per pound the most powerful and formidable raptor, there are scientifical studies in that way. i cannot understand what you want to say about the sparrow hawk? thanks!

They are, but in comparison to size they might not be. Just a possible senario.

[HawkEagle]

I reckon an over grown sparow hawk is a gos hawk. Extremely capable hunter but by far pound per pound contender.:lol:

[tonerro]

there is a report of a martial eagle killing a fullgrown male baboon

[EagleMan]

there is a report of a martial eagle killing a fullgrown male baboon
great news man, :supz: can you tell us more about this? if a martial was doing that, then this is a new confirmation about the hunting capability of the crowned eagles. i remaind you about these crowned eagle pairs specialized in hunting baboons...
thanks tonerro ! we wait the report of martial and the baboon:supz:

[OutFlying]

Was it a long testing flight ?

[Berkut]

Send it over .There are a few baboons on here. !!!!

[EagleMan]

Send it over .There are a few baboons on here. !!!!
i'll ho[pe i'm not one of them, lol, or else this beauty cold take me, lol

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Friends

In what it refers the Martial Eagle when evaluating your structure we noticed that they possess long fingers, and studies of the biology of this bird really proved that she captures 80% of birds and 20% other species this way it doesn't argue with the Aquila verreauxi, that has in your diet 80% mammals and 20% other species. It is not necessarily necessary a bird to have the model of an Accipiter to be a great bird hunters. The environment molds through the natural selection your characters. In Brazil and South America we have the Buteo brachiurus that although it is a bird belonging to the gender Buteo, it possesses the tail it tans, format of wings of Buteo, but short tarsos, fingers very developed, and it is a great hunter of birds, more than 90% of your diet are composed of birds, and it is a Buteo.

As the capacity of the crowned eagle to hunt larger prey than Harpia, that is relative. In the south American forests great monkeys of the load of a baboon don't exist, some exist other, but certainly any as big nor dangerous as baboons. In spite of this, does anybody have doubt that a Harpia can hunt a baboon?

In spite of this Harpia a lot of times it lives close to human houses and it hunts domestic animals whose weight is very big as goats, sheep, domestic dogs, and other larger mammals.

In the recent video of Nick Fox Behaviour and Learning, exhibits an abbreviation image of Andre Greoenwald's crowned eagle coming to the fist.

Excuse all bad English

Regards

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Friends especially Eagle Man.

Before everything I apologize for the absence in this forum, that was due to a project of it creates in captivity of some birds, and that turned impossible for lack of time to participate.

Perhaps due to a bad translation I have not expressed in a correct way, It didn't want to mention " Otis tarda ", certainly, but other birds of the Order of Gruiformes, Família Otidídeos, that are Abetarda of Kori (Ardeotis kori), Abetarda of Senegal (Eupodotis senegalensis) and Abetarda of the black womb (Lissotis melanogaster), the Ardeotis kori measures from 75 to 100 cm. these birds that wanted to refer were and that live in the African savanna and that they are preys of Martial Eagle, not Otis tarda that with certainty lives in Europe.

In what it refers to the great sizes of the fingers and claws of Harpia, certainly it can be an adaptation the capture of slow mammals like Bradipus, but the diet of the harpia is not just composed of these you encourage, although I totally agree that in some areas these animals really compose great part of the diet of these eagles, but it also includes in your big diet Psitacídeos as Ara macao, that possess a very strong beak, also there is in your diet carnivores of the trees, of the family Procionidae as Potus flavus, besides other smaller carnivores. Harpia doesn't just live at the dense amazon forest, it lives in other ecosystems as fields, transition zones, less dense forests, and in these places capture many other animals as Canídeos savages, rodents of 5 kg, and many other more.


Recently there was a Congress in Argentina in Iguazu called II Neotropical Raptors organized for the Peregrine Fund, where I had the pleasure to participate, and there was the presentation of many works on raptors and many on Harpias, besides a day of lectures about legislation of falconry. I will consult on the researchers' recent information on the diet of Harpia and puts a message later

Excuse all bad English

Regards

[EagleMan]

hi Jorge, i'm glad that you are back:)

[EagleMan]

hi NGuruve ! how are you ?

[EagleMan]

well Jorge, the enormous size of harpy,s talons and toes is still a mistery, for hunting sloths an golden eagle's talons are proper killing tools, no need for larger talons for this job ! sloths don't weight much, around 5-7 kilos. and they are not an dangerous prey at all, that's for sure.
with macaws parots i think is another problem, an ara's beak is so powerful that it can actually damage hard an harpy or even killed if he parrot manage to catch the harpy eagle on the wrong position, bur again there is no single situation like that mentioned, ever recorded by someone. Ara macaws are light birds and there are many cases in wich ornate hawk eagles succesfully hun t them,
so Jorge, do you know if the sloths posses great force in their claws, i mean could be very difficult for an eagle to snatch them from the tree branch?

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Friends

It is having a lot of comparison between Harpia and African Crowned Eagle in what it refers the capacity of capture of a baboon of 38 Kg.

In what conditions the capture of the baboon did happen? Was an isolated individual? or was it in the group? Was one of the dominant males?

Are they many questions?

Well, the baboons have a compound social system, where the dominant adult males exist and that protect the group in moment of attack on the part of a predator, when this happens, females, young of the group begin the escape, while the group is defended by these dominant males.

I would like a lot to know in that conditions happened the capture of the baboon.

I don't have doubts that so much Harpia or African Crowned Eagle can capture a baboon, as the agility, speed, aggressiveness, I cannot speak anything, because I never flew none of these eagles, and nor I intend. AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Regards

Jorge

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello EagleMan

Yes, certainly Sloths has a lot of force in the claws, and they resist many to the wounds, I saw a filming of National Geographic that shows a Puma (Felis concolor) to arise in a high tree, to bite a Sloth and to be with the body hung in the air, with the whole suspended body in the air, with Sloth with the nailed claws, and this lasted more than one minute to the animal to give in and the Puma to start of the branch the prey.

I also saw in a filming of Neil called Rettig Harpy Eagle, an eagle Harpia to arrive in flight the in a branch and a Sloths that was in a branch to start immediately. Certainly the prey didn't notice the eagle until her it is already very close. Some observers say that Harpias sometimes captures Sloths and they nail the claws in the branches and Harpia they don't sometimes get to start of the branch to they be dead.

I send enclosed some pictures.

[HawkEagle]

I reckon harpy needs to be big and heavy to have enough momentum to pull out sloth from a tree. Imagine being smaller, the bird would strike the sloth but sloth is still hanging and the bird will be upside down before the bird is forced to give in. Plus if the bird have weak grip it'll not be able to hold sloth while pulling it out of tree at speed and momentum.

[EagleMan]

Jorge, the ideea was that may ornithologist claim that crowned eagle hunted the largest and heaviest prey for an bird of prey, moreover they usually hunt big preys, and there are scientifical documentation, and movies too that certified that the crowned eagle hunt baboons . and i'm sure that harpy posses too the power to kill an adult baboon, after all even golden eagles killed people in accidents, but i don't know if the harpy has the courage and determination to risk a hunt to baboons?

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello EagleMan

Before everything I want to say, that although I am Brazilian, me also taste much more of African Crowned Eagle, it is of an only beauty, it seems a gigantic Spizaetus.

Well, as said before, to know, of the courage and other qualities of these eagles I would have to have flight experiences with these eagles to compare, but I don't have.

I send a pictures enclosed of a friend from Spain that it possesses an African Crowned Eagle.

Regards

[EagleMan]

Hello EagleMan

Before everything I want to say, that although I am Brazilian, me also taste much more of African Crowned Eagle, it is of an only beauty, it seems a gigantic Spizaetus.

Well, as said before, to know, of the courage and other qualities of these eagles I would have to have flight experiences with these eagles to compare, but I don't have.

I send a pictures enclosed of a friend from Spain that it possesses an African Crowned Eagle.

Regards

beautiful bird, quite young and seems to be a male?
you friends have right, harpy must be big and strong in order to snatch an sloth, and also must posses flight power too.....but an crowned can flight 90 degrees upwright with an prey that weight as much as 4 times the bird's weight, and this is absolutely true i saw it demonstrated at Animal Planet channel,
anyway crowned is much too powerful for it's size...
and i think if the harpy feet became so big in order to fly with an sloth,
the crowned developed it,s talons for instantly killing dangerous monkeys that otherways could very easily kill the bird.....even an vervet canines are larger than any dogs.
regards

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

EagleMan

Which film did show this filming of African Crowned Eagle? I have one of National Geographic called Tallon, The story of one Eagle.

There are many reports of the ability of flight of Harpia. There is a zoo in the north of Brazil, where there is an island inside of this zoo, and a lot of species of primates were concentrated at this island for the people to see the biology of these monkeys, the largest were the spiders monkeys (Ateles paniscus), that weigh 6 kg, and Harpias began to frequent this island to capture this great concentration of monkeys, with extreme agility.

The question that I do is: It will be that a Harpia that lived in the same ecosystem that an African Crowned Eagle would not capture similar preys. For me the 3 eagles, Crowned Eagle, Harpia, and Philipine doesn't have a lot of difference, all possess powerful weapons, it chews facial to distort the silhouette, short and round wings and long tail.

Besides I have a picture in a book of a Phillipine Eagle with a great primate in the claws, I will try to post in a next message.

This picture of Crowned Eagle is really a male, he tried to import the two of Africa, but it only got to import just one. He thinks about reproducing hereafter.

Regards

[NGuruve]

hi NGuruve ! how are you ?
haha hey man im good hope ure doing okay

[EagleMan]

the kind of job that i love... showing kids an big harpy eagle:supz:

[EagleMan]

i hope some day i'll gona do the same work as this guy:yawinkle:

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello EagleMan and friends.

I don't like this association, a Harpy eagle with children that resemble your habitual preys, monkeys.

The picture is not very clear, but do I think the person that holds Harpy Eagle in the fist is Angel Muela, responsible for the project Harpy of the Peregrine Fund in Panama, am I right?

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

I forgot to mention, this friend from Spain that has African Crowned Eagle, he also has a Martial Eagle, he is a person of a lot of luck.

Besides these marvels he also has Gyr, and Aplomados Falcons.

He is really a guy of a lot of luck.

[EagleMan]

hi everybody, another pic with the magnificent bird !

[Talon]

heres a clip of another magnificent bird.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6b36P4UzQQ

[EagleMan]

thanks, Talon :) but the sloth pose no danger for harpy

[CoyoteOutlaw]

heres a clip of another magnificent bird.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6b36P4UzQQ

While a sloth may not be 'dangerous' to the Harpy, that was a pretty amazing clip!! (maybe because I'm partial to the harpy) Thats a lot of weight to just grab and carry off!

[EagleMan]

While a sloth may not be 'dangerous' to the Harpy, that was a pretty amazing clip!! (maybe because I'm partial to the harpy) Thats a lot of weight to just grab and carry off!

Of course sloth is not dangerous for the harpy ! In fact sloths are not dangerous at all for it's predators, his only way to defence is climbing the trees and leavit very rarely.
And belive me is not "a lot of weight" to be carry. That species of sloth weight maximum 6 or 7 kilos, as much as an average harpy. harpy eagles, as well as all rainforest eagles are experts in using the moment of inerty impact force combined with action of gliding between trees. Remember that golden eagles (wich are smaller and weaker tham harpy eagles), were filmed carryng off chamoix wich are much heavier than a sloth. anyway magnificent filmings, Nevertheless much work involved in order to chatch these images.:supz:

[Ermoro]

I've see some video about the Harpy Eagle and I guess there's nothing powerful like them.

[SnapeDek]

After reading this thread very carefully and Now that we have decided that the most powerful of all is the HARPY EAGLE has anyone got a photo of a harpy eagle eating a MACKEM????: cheers Rich

[EagleMan]

I've see some video about the Harpy Eagle and I guess there's nothing powerful like them.

Ermoru, can you post those videos? many thanks:supz:

[EagleMan]

After reading this thread very carefully and Now that we have decided that the most powerful of all is the HARPY EAGLE has anyone got a photo of a harpy eagle eating a MACKEM????: cheers Rich

WE? wich we? and how you decided? just because harpy is bigger? red the thread more pls. untill someone who flight those two eagles comes here and tell us the final conclusion, i personally choose the african crowned eagle.
for me is still a mistery why harpyeagle recognized by some peopla as the most powerful eagle hunts prey smaller than not only crowned but also martial and goldie too?
and if, and there is a big IF , harpy is powerfull than crowned , crowned still remain the most voracious and brave eagle. much suited for falconry than harpy. my humble opinion. thanks

[EagleMan]

crowned eagle at fresh kill, check out the thick tarsi !:supz:

[NGuruve]

hah you rule eagleman where you find these pics i dont know but im still with you the crowned wins every side of the argument the sheer size of a harpy isnt enough in my opinion the crowned had strength and guts on its side :supz:

[EagleMan]

hi Nguruve !
well, it's my passion about eagles...:)

[HawkEagle]

To me crowned eagle is the most formidable eagle in the world.

[Java Falconer]

I vote for the Crowned. Just that I feel Crowned is more savage than the Harpy. Never watch them close, but I've seen footage of both hunting in the forest. Over all, they are awesome jungle hunters!

[NGuruve]

World News





The Times January 13, 2006



Damage to the eye sockets and skull of the Tuang child has been cited as proof that the African crowned eagle was the killer





Face to face: a child killer and its prey
From Jonathan Clayton in Johannesburg





THE African crowned eagle was found guilty yesterday of the murder about two to three million years ago of arguably the most important human ancestor found.
The mystery of how the Taung child, the continent’s first hominid discovery, met its end, aged 3½, has puzzled scientists for decades and could throw important new light on the theory of human evolution.



“This is the end of an 80-year-old murder mystery . . . We have proved conclusively and beyond a reasonable doubt, which would be accepted in a court of law, that the African crowned eagle was the killer,” Lee Berger, an American palaeontologist, said.

The end of the mystery “gives us real insight into the past lives of these human ancestors,” he said. “It shows it was not only big cats, but also these creatures from the air — aerial bombardment if you will — that our ancestors had to be afraid of. These were the stressors and stresses that grew and shaped the human mind and formed our behaviour today.”

In 1924 the discovery of the half-ape, half-man fossilised skull about 300 miles (480 kilometres) northwest of Johannesburg overturned the view that humans originated in Eurasia and focused the search for the “cradle of humanity” on Africa.

Announcing the verdict, Professor Berger, a reader in palaeoanthropology at Wits University in Johannesburg, said new evidence showed that the child was not killed by leopards or sabre-toothed cats, the previous suspects.

He said “small punctures and keyhole slots” inside the eye sockets and brain area could not have been made by such large predators.

“Carnivores cannot create that sort of damage,” he told a press conference in the margins of an international conference on the origins of man. “This child was killed by a single blow of a 14cm long talon into the brain . . . It was later disembowelled. The eagle would have used its beak to eat out the eyes and the brain — some of the most nutritious parts — and created these marks.”

The Taung child was discovered by Raymond Dart, a British professor who had recently arrived to take up a new post in South Africa. He published a paper in Nature saying that the child, a specimen of the human ancestor species Australopithecus africanus, was the famed “missing link” between man and ape.

The bold claim was widely dismissed at the time, but subsequently other, older hominids, such as Lucy, believed to be more than three million years old, were found in the Great Rift Valley that snakes across the continent from South Africa through Kenya and Tanzania to Ethiopia.

Professor Berger and Ron Clarke, a fellow palaeontologist, first mooted the theory that the killer was a predatory bird similar to today’s African crowned eagle about ten years ago.

“The one big problem was the lack of multiple areas of damage that could be linked to a bird of prey,” Professor Berger said. “We had one little flap of bone on the top of the skull that looked like some of the damage we see made by eagles and nothing else. It was the ultimate two-million-year-old cold case!”

Five months ago researchers from Ohio State University submitted what Professor Berger called the most comprehensive study to date of eagle damage on bones. Asked to review the paper for the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, Professor Berger realised that he had stumbled upon his own missing link.

The study on primate remains from modern-day crowned eagle nests in the Tai forest in Ivory Coast showed that raptors routinely hunt primates much larger than themselves by swooping down at speed and piercing their skulls with their back talons.

The Ohio State paper also identified key features that distinguished damage caused by eagles from that of other predators. They include the flaps of depressed bone on top of the skull caused by the birds’ talons and keyhole-shaped cuts on the side made by their beaks.

They also identified puncture marks and ragged incisions in the base of the eye sockets, made when eagles rip out the eyes of dead monkeys with their talons and beaks.

Professor Berger returned to the skull of the Taung child and noticed a tiny hole and jagged tears at the base of the eye sockets. “I couldn’t believe my eyes, as thousands of scientists, including myself, had overlooked this critical damage. I felt a little bit of an idiot,” he said.

Professor Berger’s research, which has already been reviewed and accepted by experts in the field, is due to be published in the February edition of the prestigious American Journal of Physical Anthropology.





d a few suporters :supz:

[KiteTrainer]

so your telling me a local woman and a prostitute managed to kill a full grown eagle.....



Very good appeals to my sense of humour:lol:

[NGuruve]

dont see harpys doing that:supz: applying to the killing of the child lol



In the foreground, a skull of a Diana monkey. The large hole to the right of the nasal cavity was likely inflicted by an African crowned eagle. Photo by Jo McCulty, Ohio State University.


ANCIENT RAPTORS LIKELY FEASTED ON EARLY MAN, STUDY SUGGESTS
COLUMBUS , Ohio – A new study suggests that prehistoric birds of prey made meals out of some of our earliest human ancestors.

Researchers drew this conclusion after studying more than 600 bones from modern-day monkeys. They had collected the bones from beneath the nests of African crowned eagles in the Ivory Coast's Tai rainforest. A full-grown African crowned eagle is roughly the size of an American bald eagle, which typically weighs about 10 to 12 pounds.

Punctures and scratches on many of the monkey skulls have led some researchers to rethink which animals may have preyed on our human ancestors, said W. Scott McGraw, the study's lead author and an associate professor of anthropology at Ohio State University.

“It seems that raptors have been a selective force in primate evolution for a long time,” he said. “Before this study I thought that eagles wouldn't contribute that much to the mortality rate of primates in the forest.

“I couldn't have been more wrong.”

The results may also have important implications for the mystery surrounding the death of one human ancestor who lived about 2.5 million years ago.

Archaeologists discovered the skull of a 3½-year old ape-like child in a cave in South Africa in 1924. Researchers believed this child, called the Taung child (Australopithecus africanus), had been killed by a predatory cat. But McGraw said that puncture marks on the monkey skulls he examined closely resemble those found on the skull of the Taung child.

“Eagles leave very distinctive beak and talon punctures around the face and in the eye sockets,” “The skull of the Taung child has these same kinds of puncture marks.”

The study is online at the website of the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, and is scheduled for publication in the journal's October issue. McGraw conducted the study with Catherine Cooke, a graduate student in anthropology at Ohio State , and with Susanne Schultz, of the University of Liverpool , collected most of the bones for the study.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“So the chance of actually seeing an eagle attack a monkey is extremely slim. Yet raptors are kind enough to leave all the bones around afterwards. That means we can work backwards and construct a prey profile based on what's left over.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The best way to learn about an eagle's prey is to gather the remains that are in or near the raptor's nest, says McGraw.

“Eagles are ambush predators – they go in for the kill quickly,” said McGraw, who has spent much of the last 15 years studying primates in the Tai rainforest, which is in southwestern Ivory Coast .

“So the chance of actually seeing an eagle attack a monkey is extremely slim,” he continued. “Yet raptors are kind enough to leave all the bones around afterwards. That means we can work backwards and construct a prey profile based on what's left over.”

Over the course of three years the researchers collected some 1,200 animal bones discarded from 16 African crowned eagle nests. Slightly more than half of the bones (669) belonged to primates. The rest of the bones were from other, non-primate animals that the eagles preyed upon.

Most of the bones in the collection belonged to smaller monkey species, which weigh anywhere from 2.5 to 11.5 pounds as adults. But a third of the monkeys whose bones were part of the sample set would weigh anywhere from 13.5 to 24 pounds when alive. The majority of these bones were from mangabeys, the largest monkey in the Tai forest.

[EagleMan]

tottaly true, harpy is also capable of killing childrens , especially in Amazonia, i don't remember well but there night be some documentation too. phillipine and martial could do the same, since there are hisorically documented cases of golden eagles who attack and killed childrens!

[EagleMan]

Very good appeals to my sense of humour:lol:

damn, eagles are in danger to get some veneric desease too?

[EagleMan]

flyng beauty over kenyan sky.....

[EagleMan]

she is a fotomodel, or something:supz:

[HawkEagle]

Very nice pics I am just wondering if you can train a crowned eagle to soar?

[EagleMan]

yes, i think so
because it has wide wings, not just short

[EagleMan]

i'm waiting for the sloth, monkey or the zoo keeper:supz:

[HawkEagle]

Alot of hawk eagles are quite bad at soaring expecially Blyth's he. The best being changeable he. I wonder what level of flight crowned eagle would be?

[Java Falconer]

Alot of hawk eagles are quite bad at soaring expecially Blyth's he. The best being changeable he. I wonder what level of flight crowned eagle would be?

Wow, never know that CHE could soar good. What about Indian Black Eagle?

EagleMan, splendid Crown and Harpy pics!!! Btw, the Harpy has blunt talons, how is it possible then?

[HawkEagle]

Sure, Indain black eagles can soar well but they are not much of a hunting bird, I have heard. They are more like kites.

[Tanin]

i'm waiting for the sloth, monkey or the zoo keeper:supz:

very nice photo... I guess that the eagle is is trained... but how come there is no leash...

[Java Falconer]

Sure, Indain black eagles can soar well but they are not much of a hunting bird, I have heard. They are more like kites.

What do you mean HawkEagle? I've read that they love to snatch birds' chicks out of their nest right away. That's why IBEs have longer toes.
Btw, in your opinion, which is best for hunting partner a CHE or an IBE? Why? What prey do you usually hunt then?

Tx!

[EagleMan]

do you like how it soars, Nguruve?
i hope ....:lol:

[HawkEagle]

What do you mean HawkEagle? I've read that they love to snatch birds' chicks out of their nest right away. That's why IBEs have longer toes.
Btw, in your opinion, which is best for hunting partner a CHE or an IBE? Why? What prey do you usually hunt then?

Tx!

For falconry point of view che is on top course you want your bird to do hot persuit of their prey and che will do just that while Indian black eagle are more stealthy soaring up high looking for unsuspicious prey.

[Java Falconer]

For falconry point of view che is on top course you want your bird to do hot persuit of their prey and che will do just that while Indian black eagle are more stealthy soaring up high looking for unsuspicious prey.

Meaning that CHE will be more adaptable for hunting like merlin or accipiter 'off the fist with max speed' while Black Indie could be like Golden Eagle, in this case could be taught 'waiting-on' technique?

Sorry if I'm wrong, still don't really know about hunting with eagles.

[EagleMan]

beauty, strenght and efficiency in action, enjoy !:supz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ENY2ujNUE

[Tim Laycock]

beauty, strenght and efficiency in action, enjoy !:supz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ENY2ujNUE

Good link 8-)

[Parabuteo.de]

Fantastic footage! Does anybody have the rest of this documentation??

Claas :)

[EagleMan]

Fantastic footage! Does anybody have the rest of this documentation??

Claas :)

the footage is part of a documentary realized by BBC Wildlife , simply named Eagles, it also features goldie, wedgie, martial, Wallace, steller's, steppe, phillippine eagle.

[Parabuteo.de]

the footage is part of a documentary realized by BBC Wildlife , simply named Eagles, it also features goldie, wedgie, martial, Wallace, steller's, steppe, phillippine eagle.

Sent you a pm!

Claas :)

[PitBullOne]

bravo great thread,eagle man respect on the pictures,i have my order in on a female crowned,but i looks like its going to take a while,hopefulyi should be flying a friends male next year,best not fly it in the park then.good informative thread.thankseveryone involved.

[Java Falconer]

Cool footage. I know it was taken from The BBC Wildlife Series: Eagle. Narrated by the famous David Attenborough. Usually it is available in many cd stores.
Contained many eagle spesies, a must watch movie I guess... :supz:

[EagleMan]

bravo great thread,eagle man respect on the pictures,i have my order in on a female crowned,but i looks like its going to take a while,hopefulyi should be flying a friends male next year,best not fly it in the park then.good informative thread.thankseveryone involved.


thank you pitbullone !
also everybody who posted here, did a great job, adding lots of info !
thank to all of you !

[EagleMan]

philippine eagle footage-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqOjD2mmwFo

and this one is a footage from the same BBC, Eagles documentary, the largest eagle in terns of lenght and wing surface !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K_G6xQGduw

enjoy !

[EagleMan]

and these a re some brazilian ornithologists who study harpies.
i wait for some one who speak portuguese...i hope he will be amabile and transalate a little about this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUaekqo_vWE&mode=related&search=

[phoenix123]

it is true they have 3 times a rottwiler bite BUT its large body and strong talons are ment for ripping prey out of trees. there main food is sloth and they have to have a tremendus grip to rip them out of the trees. sloths olny weigh 4 lbs, the harpy rarly takes big animals. the crowned eagle has large strong talons for a totally diffrent reason. there talons are ment to take very large animals to provide maximum food for themslelves.

[EagleMan]

[QUOTE=phoenix123;696087]it is true they have 3 times a rottwiler bite BUT its large body and strong talons are ment for ripping prey out of trees. there main food is sloth and they have to have a tremendus grip to rip them out of the trees. sloths olny weigh 4 lbs, the harpy rarly takes big animals. the crowned eagle has large strong talons for a totally diffrent reason. there talons are ment to take very large animals to provide maximum food for themslelves.[/QUOTE

Thanks for the posting man!
After I sudyed this question in depht, I'v come to a similar conclusion !

[Andrew Connor]

Harpy Eagle vs Sloth on youtube then youll know how hard a harpys grip is

[EagleMan]

Hello friends !
I come back with this statement about the incredible power of the crowned eagle, by the way did anyone actually seen the Animal Planet serise about the strenght of the animals ?
this is the presentation of thet episode, taken from Animal Planet site...

"Come to grips with the strongest animals on Earth! The gorilla can lift ten times it's own body weight, but, pound for pound, the African crowned eagle carries more than a cargo plane. Meet the top ten in most extreme strength. Come to grips with the strongest animals on earth! Which animals can take down prey much bigger than themselves, or carry weights ten times heavier than their own? The strongest humans can lift about 3 times their own body weight, but the average gorilla can lift 10 times it's own body weight! And, pound for pound, the African Crowned Eagle can carry more than a cargo plane, because it can fly carrying up to 4 times it's own weight. Something that would keep a cargo plane grounded. But which animal has the Most Extreme Strength? Find out on this top ten countdown. "

[Falco rusticolus]

Hi there , i am new on this forum and found this threat while searching
in google for some measurements of claws for different eagle species.

This threat is very interesting and there are also very pictures, but the origially posted question cannot be clearly answered.

That is impoossible for several reasons.

All birds that were mentioned here are very strong eagles (ext and there are probably some other like: harpyopsis novoguineae, morphnus guyaensis,
oroaetus isidori,spizaetus nipalensis orientalis or aquila guyernii, which are
rarely seen and there are few data about them) and so they are all able to kill relatively large prey.
But you cannot clearly determine, what is meant by "strong" in a eagle context ( flying with heavy prey, killing large prey, direct fight with other
eagle,...) and there are perhaps larger differences between eagles of the same kind than between others of different ones; for example a.chrysaetos that is very widespread and therefore has much size variation ( daphanea - japonica ).
There are not only physical abilities but also several techniques and skills
that are at least as important as a liittle big longer hillux or 1 kg more or less weight.
These skills a bird has to learn and it can get the experience for example
killing wolves or baboons, but another crowned or golden feeding mostly
hyrax or rabbits ( cause there are a lot of them in its area, so it must taking the high risk of getting injured ) would not do this.
Killing such dangerous prey is much based on extreme timing and the knowledge of the points of the body it has to attack ( like a martial arts fighter).
So you cannot create a list list some has done before ( o.k. you can say
a harpy is stronger than a lesser spotted eagle and a crowned stronger than a wahlbergs ).

Sorry for bad english

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hi there , i am new on this forum and found this threat while searching
in google for some measurements of claws for different eagle species.

This threat is very interesting and there are also very pictures, but the origially posted question cannot be clearly answered.

That is impoossible for several reasons.

All birds that were mentioned here are very strong eagles (ext and there are probably some other like: harpyopsis novoguineae, morphnus guyaensis,
oroaetus isidori,spizaetus nipalensis orientalis or aquila guyernii, which are
rarely seen and there are few data about them) and so they are all able to kill relatively large prey.
But you cannot clearly determine, what is meant by "strong" in a eagle context ( flying with heavy prey, killing large prey, direct fight with other
eagle,...) and there are perhaps larger differences between eagles of the same kind than between others of different ones; for example a.chrysaetos that is very widespread and therefore has much size variation ( daphanea - japonica ).
There are not only physical abilities but also several techniques and skills
that are at least as important as a liittle big longer hillux or 1 kg more or less weight.
These skills a bird has to learn and it can get the experience for example
killing wolves or baboons, but another crowned or golden feeding mostly
hyrax or rabbits ( cause there are a lot of them in its area, so it must taking the high risk of getting injured ) would not do this.
Killing such dangerous prey is much based on extreme timing and the knowledge of the points of the body it has to attack ( like a martial arts fighter).
So you cannot create a list list some has done before ( o.k. you can say
a harpy is stronger than a lesser spotted eagle and a crowned stronger than a wahlbergs ).

Sorry for bad english


Hello Falco rusticolus and friends

I think that the comparisons between eagles are difficult to do, and based on what we are doing. Size, wingspan of wings, size of claws. I believe that the correct form of comparing the power of these eagles they would be to know better his biology, his form of living. Leaving from this concept and analysing which the mightiest, stronger eagle, I would withdraw of immediate one many eagles as the Golden Eagle what one feeds of mammals, birds, and even animal dead, it would remove the Martial Eagle, which is an eagle, where studies demonstrated what are fed in his most of birds, and they live in savannas and zones of transition. It would leave only to compare only 3 eagles of jungle, Harpy (Harpy harpyja), Crowned African Eagle (Stephonaetus coronatus); and Philippine Eagle (Pitecophaga jeferii), these birds simply in his day by day in the jungle do not be able to fail, do not be able to allow oneself the luxury of failing as it takes place with eagles of the steppes, savannas, etc., to fail the preys one will fail the preys disappears inside the forest.
I know well Harpy, know a breeder in Brazil that reproduces this species, and really healthy fantastically, there is a Peruvian friend called José Gagliardi who has been flying Harpy and has been demonstrating fantastic results. I think that the comparison also might be done through the weights of these eagles, and his proportions. Here in Brazil we have Harpy males who weigh 5, 6 kg, and females who weigh 9, 10 kg. The hallux of a female is 15 centimetres. The preys of the Harpy are very varied, monkeys, birds, deer, fox, salvages pigs, great snakes and much more.

Sorry all bad translator.

Jorge

[EagleMan]

Hello Jorge ! Glad yo have you back on this thread !

But I have some comments regarding yot last post...
First, yes harpy is a 100% skillled hunter, yes the aharpy eat a variety of preys like those you enumerated, BUT, haroy eagle is in the first time an sloth killer...practically this eagle evolved to became so big and also huge feet...but that's everything...mort than 70% of harpy eagle is composed from sloths..I'm not the only one who claim that, Even Neil Rettig, world's foremost authority in harpy eagles has the similar conclusion...

Second, I have serious doubts about weights as much as 10, even 9 kilos claimed for female harpy...I hawe seen even golden eagles and martial eagles as big as any harpy...at lesat in lenght..
At those weights, a female harpy is unnable to hunt sucesfuly agile prey like the monkeys...or maybe this particular aspect lead the harpy to became a specialized sloth killer.
Anyway I have serius doubs about harpy eagles weighting so much, even in the wild....
The reason is because of the strongest eagle that ever lived on Earth, The Haast's Eagle...this extinct eagle was also the largest eagle....the Haast's bones look much bigger than eany harpy...
You see, the curious partis coming now...
Professor Richard Holdaway, who studied this extinct eagle in depht for more than 20 years, came with the conclusion that Haast's eagle weighted no more than 10-11 kilos, not much difference than the 9-10 kilo harpy female.
Also Mr Holdaway thinks, that acording to the laws of phisics and biomecanics, That any eagle heavier than 11 kilos will be unnable to catch it's prey.
The intersting part is this : the Haast fossils sugests that it was much bigger than harpy, so the 1-2 kilos differential between harpy and Haast's will be very improbable.
All this lead me to think that harpy eagle is not as heavy as it' currently believed...:idea:

Another aspect you mentioned is involving the Martiall-Philippine paralell,

You see, thesre are some aspects in wich I think martial is superroir to Philippine...
First are the weapons, of course philippine's beak is the largest rapror beak after the Steller's, but everybody knows that an eagle's beak has nothing to do with the process of killing.
Let's compare the feet and talons of those two :
Philippine eagle has longer legs, in fact has the longer legs among all eagles.
But martial has longer toes and bigger talons than phillippine...
The diet tell us also much about these two eagle species :
phillippine is an specialized eagel, but it's specialization is in one direction, he is an coluo killer.

[KillJoy]

so your telling me a local woman and a prostitute managed to kill a full grown eagle.....



:supz::supz:
LMAO

[Riddick]

so your telling me a local woman and a prostitute managed to kill a full grown eagle..... local women with shoe [hoe]:lol::lol::lol::roll:

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Jorge ! Glad yo have you back on this thread !

But I have some comments regarding yot last post...
First, yes harpy is a 100% skillled hunter, yes the aharpy eat a variety of preys like those you enumerated, BUT, haroy eagle is in the first time an sloth killer...practically this eagle evolved to became so big and also huge feet...but that's everything...mort than 70% of harpy eagle is composed from sloths..I'm not the only one who claim that, Even Neil Rettig, world's foremost authority in harpy eagles has the similar conclusion...

Second, I have serious doubts about weights as much as 10, even 9 kilos claimed for female harpy...I hawe seen even golden eagles and martial eagles as big as any harpy...at lesat in lenght..
At those weights, a female harpy is unnable to hunt sucesfuly agile prey like the monkeys...or maybe this particular aspect lead the harpy to became a specialized sloth killer.
Anyway I have serius doubs about harpy eagles weighting so much, even in the wild....
The reason is because of the strongest eagle that ever lived on Earth, The Haast's Eagle...this extinct eagle was also the largest eagle....the Haast's bones look much bigger than eany harpy...
You see, the curious partis coming now...
Professor Richard Holdaway, who studied this extinct eagle in depht for more than 20 years, came with the conclusion that Haast's eagle weighted no more than 10-11 kilos, not much difference than the 9-10 kilo harpy female.
Also Mr Holdaway thinks, that acording to the laws of phisics and biomecanics, That any eagle heavier than 11 kilos will be unnable to catch it's prey.
The intersting part is this : the Haast fossils sugests that it was much bigger than harpy, so the 1-2 kilos differential between harpy and Haast's will be very improbable.
All this lead me to think that harpy eagle is not as heavy as it' currently believed...:idea:

Another aspect you mentioned is involving the Martiall-Philippine paralell,

You see, thesre are some aspects in wich I think martial is superroir to Philippine...
First are the weapons, of course philippine's beak is the largest rapror beak after the Steller's, but everybody knows that an eagle's beak has nothing to do with the process of killing.
Let's compare the feet and talons of those two :
Philippine eagle has longer legs, in fact has the longer legs among all eagles.
But martial has longer toes and bigger talons than phillippine...
The diet tell us also much about these two eagle species :
phillippine is an specialized eagel, but it's specialization is in one direction, he is an coluo killer.


Olá "Eagleman"

Excellent his answer and with much wealth of details.

If the question digs also who among these three eagles is the most beautiful? also it would choose the crowned eagle.

Now in the topic it forces, I think that it has a straight relation with size, and between the 3, perhaps really the wild Harpies have not 10 kg, these I weigh what I mentioned if they tell to eagles Harpies in captivity in the northern region of Brazil, and consequently an inactive bird eating in excess the weight increases.

I bring into line that Neil Rettig is an authority on Harpies, his work is known in whole world, but I know other persons who dedicate his life to the study of the Harpy, and what studies Harpy in all Brazil not only in a place. In all the places did Neil Rettig study the diet of the Harpy? Certainly in that place the most abundant prey were "preguiça" (Bradipus, etc.), and I think that in environments where they exist preguiças "Bradipus" in abundance this will always be going to take place, it is a rule of the nature, the law of the least effort, the predator always opts for easier and fragile prey, however Brazil has a very big territorial extension and with several habitats and the Harpy does not live alone in the Amazon region, in other places where "preguiças" (Bradipus), they are not abundant, most of the diet of the Harpy are composed by monkeys of several sorts, including someone that weigh 7kg. (Alouata)

In Brazil Harpies live also in zones of transition of tropical forests with other ecosystems how in the central region of Brazil, regions of vegetation like Scrubland, and in this local Harpies hunt for any preys that appears, deer, foxes, armadillos, Procionídeos, birds as macaws, etc., and much more.

As for Philippine eagle, I see similarities between these 3 eagles, and know also which great part of the diet of the Philippine eagle is composed by a mammal glider, but I am sure what has full possibilities to pregive other animals arborícolas. I have a photo of a Philippine eagle with an enormous monkey in the claws. I am not sure that the Philippine eagle has the longest tarsi. Will it be that it has the tarsi of the Philippine they are longer than Harpyhaliaetus?

I think what if the crowned eagle was big certainly would be the strongest of this 3. I think that none of other eagles hunts for monkeys with weight and size of baboons. For me also it is of the only beauty, his feathered tarsi, it seems a giant Spizaetus.

Sorry all my bad translator

Jorge

[EagleMan]

Hello Jorge !

And thanks for your elaborate postings!

Yes you right, crowned eagle has to be tha most handsome eagle.
It belong to Spizaetus group, but it's an specialized offshot...
By comparison harpy is more like an giant eagle with owl like face and big dark eyes...not to be compare with crowned fire eyes and typical raptor gaze...
But what is true ies true and obvious, harpy has a huge body size, i think harpy needed it. You see, sloths are lyng on tree brances and lianes, but they clench those branches with incredibly force, so an eagle need not only big and stong talons, but also an sizeable body for adding mass in the momentum of snatching the sloth from the branch...I presumed that.
This is my ideea, harpy has evolved so strong an big, because it was forced to adapt to hunt sloths.
Yes sloths are very easy to spot for an aerial predator, also they did not ever run from the eagle, but killing them and fly with them , well this is much more hard to do for a raptor, harder than anyone can imagine...
I read that even if you shot an sloth , the animal will not fal from the tree but the carcass will remain from several days just hanging in the tree.

Also I have no doubt about harpy's capabilty to kill deers, ant eaters, foxes or other differnt preys. But first, the harpy eagle evolved as a sloth killer.
I also think that an harpy can kill an adult baboon, after all, I remember than last year an martial eagle was documented succesfully killling an male baboon...

Back to crowned eagle, this is in my opinion the ultimate predator eagle...
t begining this species was a typycal Spizaetus, bus because it'secological niche, the crowned was forced to evolve as a raptor specialized in killing large and dangerous prey...
This eagle must kill quick, at impact. if the monkey don't die quick and manage to scream and struggle in off to alert the protective males of the troop, thean the crowned eagle is in danger...so it's power must be also immense in order to subdue qiuck and silent the monkey.
Maybe in some parameters harpy stenght is superior to crowned, especially in the case o the parameters regarding size and weight...
But I sincerely belibe that the crowned eagle's gripping strenght is the same as harpy's, and just remember how large is a harpy comared to crowned.
Other aspedct important is the character and
the predator mentality of the crowned, wich I consider superior not just to harpy but to all eagles...
After all this is the eagle that currently hunt the largest prey among all eagles.
Jorge, I read in some books that some ornithologist affirmed that harpy eagle, despite it's frame , it's a shy bird, is this true?
They also claimed for example the Issidor's eagle is more agressive toward humans than the big and mighty harpy...
Regarding to Philippine eagle, it's true and also scientificallly documented. This endangere eagle posses the longest feet amongs eagles !
Regards !

[Falco rusticolus]

Also regard speed while attack.
Speed, a certain body weight and the strength of talons could somehow
indicate killing power ( regard peregrines and goshhawks different but efficient techniques - Leslie Brown ).
High speed can be used to ramm the hilux into the victims body.
By the way - does anybody knows speed measurements of large eagles?
Perhaps Polemaetus could reach a very high speed cause it attacks from
a high point by a long stoop.

[EagleMan]

Totallly agree, Falco...
Martial eagle may develop impressive power when it hits his victimes from above.

[AccipiterFreak]

this is not an eagle, but how about these falcons hunting in the desert?
watch this http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1718048355443288209&q=saluki+falcon&total=1&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Eagleman

Well, my analysis in this discussion has been in what the mightiest eagle refers, and in my interpretation I discard all the other eagles selecting the crowned eagle, the Harpy eagle and the Philippine eagle, discard the Martial one also for his specialization in the hunting of birds and with fingers more specialized for capture of birds.

Among 3 eagles that in my opinion, are mightier, for me it is logical and obvious that there is the bigger one and consequently stronger, it is this analysis what I am doing, perhaps if a crowned African eagle was of the size of a Harpy probably it would have the same strength or bigger due to his capacity of hunting principally for monkeys and baboons that are very strong and aggressive, however do not have the same size as the Harpy and at least for me his least strength is obvious.


I bring into line what in great part of his distribution, the harpy has in his diet sloths, however these animals that are slow and agile few ones survived so in the course of his evolution, using the mimicry and immobility, and it is not for this because they are not going to demand of a predator like the Harpy. The comment of which the Harpy evolved in his characteristic to hunt sloths can have basis, but like the Harpy comes flying violently and pull out a sloths of the branch, it does likewise with many monkeys withdrawing violently of the branches. Sometimes also the sloths realize the arrival of the Harpy and in a defensive reflex it carves the claws in trunks demanding of the great Harpy strength to start of the branch, in this case I interpret that the capacity of hunting sloths is not a factor that disqualifies the eagle, on the contrary it demands strength.

Another detail is what I do not want to say that the Harpy could hunt foxes, deer, wild pigs, monkeys, etc., I want to say that in many places in his distribution biogeográfica the food of the Harpy is composed principally by monkeys and all these animals, which shows the potential of the Harpy to hunt for a variety so big of preys.


In what the shy nature refers for Harpy, I do not know totally, it is imposing eagles that fear nothing, they are sovereign when when aviaries were put in his, soon they create his territory, and this is even dangerous at the moment of the formation of the couples. I know certainly one of the Harpies' biggest creators of the world, the Doctor Azeredo, he already reproduced several Harpies, he uses aviary with fabrics of wire opened, in this way he socializes his eagles with everything and with all, and in this way it creates a relation with the eagles, where it is possible that between avian us without bigger risks, like it leaves them calm in such a way that they reproduce in nests and it is possible to reach in a platform of observation a distance of one meter and a half without which the eagles are not afraid to a man in no way. We know also what the aggressiveness of a bird, are determined very often by the form as they were created, principally in more several levels of imprint.

I have not great information on Isidor's Eagle, the only information what I have of this bird in falconry was through the book " Cetreria Neotropical " of Colombia, where the author, the Mister Alvaro Torres Barreto, display in any photos this eagle on his fist, but it does not enter in many details, hardly quote what is less heavy than a Harpy, and it has less potential than a Harpy.

I publish following photo on a Philippine Eagle with a monkey think that it is a baboon, where it shows the potential of these eagles, and a printer on the food of the Martial Eagle, principally birds, and of the Eagle of Verreaux that is fed more than mammals, they are complementary in his food.

[EagleMan]

Hello Jorge !
Thank you for your detaliated post !
Definetely, if the crowned eagle was to be as large as a harpy, nevertheless the crowned would be much more powerfull than the harpy.
Well regarding the phillipino -martial comparison, a few intersting things are appearing.
First, the martial's toes are longer than phillipine , but their grip is very strong, I have spoke with someone who owned an martial eagle male, and he told me that he never carry the eagle on the fist withous some speciam metal bars that he put it isnide the glove, in order to protect his arm agains an eventually hand fractue. And that was the measure he was taken as a protection from an martial eagle male, gripping force..imagine what a female can do !
Back to their diet, You see is tottaly wrong to asume the martial as a bird specialist, there are many, many other ecotypes in Africa, where the martial eagles diet is not based on birds, but on small antelopes, small carnivores, and with some ocassion, even monkeys.
The feeding differences between Verreaux's eagle and martial, shown here are valabile only in a few areas of Africa, Paricullary in Kenya...
The scale you printed is from an old book about Aquila type eagle, goldie, wedgie and Verreaux, if I'm not wrong this particular book wes writted in german...
The Philippine eagle has captured an macac, not an baboon.
Strange, harpy is such a brave bird, some sources tell about harpy as beyng shy birds, and they are not as bold as you myght expected from a raptor as big as harpy !

[EagleMan]

Jorge, my friend, check out how this martial female launc herself among these impalas !
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1927634826&size=o

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1927633266&context=set-72157603022633582&size=o

[EagleMan]

this is an gazelle...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/migone/90422870/

[Falco rusticolus]

The discussion reminds me to that of football fans that hold their club up
( there seem to be fans of Stephanoaetus and of Harpia ).
But there is no better eagle at all than another, like their is no football fan
that always wins ( in the match a many things that leed to success or the opposite ).
You could probably divide them in different leages ( very strong,strong,middle,weak,...) cause there are huge overlaps in hunting abilities of the different species ( for example an experienced isidors could overwhelm an juvenile harpy ) so you can perhaps show a tendency to eagles strength but not an exact placement.
There is no champion (as a species ).
They are all wonderfull birds we ought to protect an admire.
"Stronger" is human thinking.

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Jorge, my friend, check out how this martial female launc herself among these impalas !
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1927634826&size=o

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1927633266&context=set-72157603022633582&size=o

Eagleman

Very beautiful the photos, but I would like seeing the sequence of the contact with the prey.

Jorge

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Jorge !
Thank you for your detaliated post !
Definetely, if the crowned eagle was to be as large as a harpy, nevertheless the crowned would be much more powerfull than the harpy.
Well regarding the phillipino -martial comparison, a few intersting things are appearing.
First, the martial's toes are longer than phillipine , but their grip is very strong, I have spoke with someone who owned an martial eagle male, and he told me that he never carry the eagle on the fist withous some speciam metal bars that he put it isnide the glove, in order to protect his arm agains an eventually hand fractue. And that was the measure he was taken as a protection from an martial eagle male, gripping force..imagine what a female can do !
Back to their diet, You see is tottaly wrong to asume the martial as a bird specialist, there are many, many other ecotypes in Africa, where the martial eagles diet is not based on birds, but on small antelopes, small carnivores, and with some ocassion, even monkeys.
The feeding differences between Verreaux's eagle and martial, shown here are valabile only in a few areas of Africa, Paricullary in Kenya...
The scale you printed is from an old book about Aquila type eagle, goldie, wedgie and Verreaux, if I'm not wrong this particular book wes writted in german...
The Philippine eagle has captured an macac, not an baboon.
Strange, harpy is such a brave bird, some sources tell about harpy as beyng shy birds, and they are not as bold as you myght expected from a raptor as big as harpy !


EagleMan and friends

I believe that an eagle in accordance with the form as I will be trained and created will be going to act in the different form on the fist. I wait for the comment of the friends that has these eagles to say how if they hold. I am very happy in knowing the potentiality of the Martial Eagle, one is or not a hunter of birds, in my opinion, like biologist, I believe that yes, but I wait that some friends speak more on this beautiful eagle. I believe that very much soon the Peruvian falcoeiro José Gagliardi will be going to demonstrate the potentiality of the Harpies, what certainly perhaps it could explain mine or our doubts.

Jorge

[Greg]

Jorge, my friend, check out how this martial female launc herself among these impalas !
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1927634826&size=o

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1927633266&context=set-72157603022633582&size=o

Looks to me like she is landing at the water hole!

[GSP]

She looks to be landing to me to
Great photo though

[EagleMan]

Pretty possible, friends.
But because impalas are on the menu list of the martial, might be a failed attack ?

[EagleMan]

Hello Jorge !
Check out this photo pls.
Look at the legs of this eagle, philippino eagles have short stocky toes like the crowned and harpy eagles , but longwer and their talon are not so big ...
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=467622295&context=photostream&size=l
Kind regards !

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Hello Eagleman

Ok, I thought that you had done the comparison of the Philippine Eagle with all the eagles, because here in Brazil we have an eagle known like Grey Eagle (Harpyhaliaetus coronatus) and that it has the very long tarsi. Really between Crowned, Harpy and Philippine, really you are right, the Philippine has the longest tarsi.

[Falco rusticolus]

Has anyone informations about the Kapul eagle? ( Harpyopsis novoguineae)

There are very few data availible even in "raptors of the world".

Seems to be a smaller form of the Philippine eagle with also very long tarsi.

In the same area of New Guinea there is the Aquila guerneyii, which is
as unknown as the Kapul eagle.

I could not find any photo of this species, only a drawing in "r.o.t.w",
that shows quiet impressive toes and claws ( but only a drawing ).
Also the data about size and weight of that bird are vague, but seems to be somewhere between A. nipalensis and A. heliaca.

[Eagleseeker]

Gents you might like to look here: http://www.haribon.org.ph/?q=node/view/117
They have made a few comparitive measurements too.

Kris

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Gents you might like to look here: http://www.haribon.org.ph/?q=node/view/117
They have made a few comparitive measurements too.

Kris

Thank You very much

It is very, very interesting.

Jorge

[Zarafia]

I've never heard of anyone hunting with a phillipine eagle, has anybody else heard of someone trying it?

[EagleMan]

Philippine is inferior to harpy, when it come s to strenghrt and sheer power.
I don't think that is someone in this world who may use an Phulipppine eagle in falconry...
First, they are too endangered, very few are still in the world:cry:
Second, an crowned eagle desoite it's smaller frame will kill the same prey as the Philippine at ease..it will kill even bigger prey than Philippinos..

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

One video about Crowned Eagle.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=13GQbT2ljxs&feature=related

Best Regards

Jorge

[EagleInYarak]

sandeep i wonder where ive seen that avatar before? BTW we must remember that eagles are opportunistic and im pretty sure that with hawks the smartest of all raptors(including owls)
if you were a Harpy Eagle and all you can find today is a sloth what will u take? and if you were a crowned and u see an antelope and a meerkat what wll u take?- the antelope given the chance a harpy should b able t kill a reindeer

[Toubab]

Specifically, 2000 pounds per square inch. For comparison, your head will crush like a grape at 1200 pounds per square inch. The Harpy is a more massive/bulky bird, and I wouldn't want either angry at me, but I think I worry more about the Crowned than the Harpy... from a distance.

As someone else pointed out, both are hard-wired to chase and eat simians... and humans fall into that category so...

anyway an national geographic documentary about raptors tell us that harpy eagle posses an grip three times more powerful that an rottweiler bite ....is this a joke ? or there are scientific measurements of those birds grip?
in this case if you have an harpy eagle on your arm, and the bird gets nervous she can pierce your glove and crush your bones.....
is that true?????????????

[EagleInYarak]

on birdforum ive read that the harpy has a gri 10x a pitbull so i checked on a website and found out that a pitbulls biteforce is 250lbs
250x10=2500p.s.i lb 4 lb harpy beats great horned owl

[EagleInYarak]

i ment if what that person on bird forum was rite

[EagleMan]

Specifically, 2000 pounds per square inch. For comparison, your head will crush like a grape at 1200 pounds per square inch. The Harpy is a more massive/bulky bird, and I wouldn't want either angry at me, but I think I worry more about the Crowned than the Harpy... from a distance.

As someone else pointed out, both are hard-wired to chase and eat simians... and humans fall into that category so...

You are right, but I remember you that harpy's body size and talons are large only because this eagle snatch sloths from trees.
On the other hand crowned eagles are smaller but hey have been forced to hunt larger prey, so in my opinion the crowned is more a predator than the harpy.
Read all the thread We talked a lot about tihs issue .
Regards

[EagleInYarak]

eagleman, there is no way one can sat ANY eagle is more of a predator than a harpy. a sloth has very thick and wet moplike hair and is usually upside down and harpies kill them instantly on the spine as 4 the crowned/AC eagle when it kills an antelope its along the spine but the antelopes fur is not so much a deterence to its death as a sloths hair is to it and the crown cant kill antelope this way instantly and the crowns talons a sharper so its like sayin a goshawk(the crown in this analogy) is stronger than a redtail(in this analogy a harpy) jus because it kills larger prey pound for pound usually in the wild the gos and crown hav sharper talons than there counterparts the redtail and harpy who rely on sheer crushin power didnt think a 15 year old can come to that conclusion did ya?;)

regards the eagle in yarak

[RedNoseK9]

I belive the Crowned is by far the more superior predator as it has to fly down and hunt its prey source aswell as dispatch it as the Harpy simply plucks a sloth from a tree and lets be fair a sloth is not renouned for its evasion techiques in the same way an antelope for example is.

[Hawking]

I dont know but if JORGE can hook us up to fly harpys I AM IN:supz::supz:

[EagleMan]

eagleman, there is no way one can sat ANY eagle is more of a predator than a harpy. a sloth has very thick and wet moplike hair and is usually upside down and harpies kill them instantly on the spine as 4 the crowned/AC eagle when it kills an antelope its along the spine but the antelopes fur is not so much a deterence to its death as a sloths hair is to it and the crown cant kill antelope this way instantly and the crowns talons a sharper so its like sayin a goshawk(the crown in this analogy) is stronger than a redtail(in this analogy a harpy) jus because it kills larger prey pound for pound usually in the wild the gos and crown hav sharper talons than there counterparts the redtail and harpy who rely on sheer crushin power didnt think a 15 year old can come to that conclusion did ya?;)

regards the eagle in yarak

Hello !
Soryy to say, but you comparison is not proper at all....you see, there is a grat difference between an goshawk leg and an redtail leg, I mean foot span, toe claw proportions, toe thickness, grip power, etc.
But an harpy foot compared to a crowned one , are very much alike, except for the naked tarsus of harpy,
Both these eagles shown short and thick toes and large talons.
And belive me, harpy talons are blunt , and not sharp , usually.
Wich add to my theory that harpy eagle developed snatching power, while crowned's had evolved to pierce thir prey.

Regards.

[EagleMan]

I belive the Crowned is by far the more superior predator as it has to fly down and hunt its prey source aswell as dispatch it as the Harpy simply plucks a sloth from a tree and lets be fair a sloth is not renouned for its evasion techiques in the same way an antelope for example is.

Tottaly right !
Not to mention that sloths not only don't try to run but, they don't even fight the harpy.
Crowned eagle usually hunt dangerous prey....
And judging from a falconer view, a crowned eagle despite it's smaller frame can kill easy all the prey that a harpy hunt.
But harpy's bigger body mass came as a disatvantage when hunting smaller quarry...

[EagleMan]

Back to the thread...
Check out this female's hind talons....these weapons are as big as any harpyes...
So why should I choose a harpy eagle ? just because it has a larger body size.
An crowned can take any prey from rabbits to deers and monkeys, and from swans and capercaillies to ostriches...
Peter, I bet in a year or two, Emmy will develop simirar sized talons !

[EagleInYarak]

jus give me time to become an experienced harpy falconer and u will c how big a prey a harpy can takedown, any large and powerful eagle, if given the oppportunity and if they really want to can take down massive prey, and to compensate for usually blunt talons, harpies have massive crushin power

and btw sloths arent the only prey taken by harpies, they comprise only 1/3 of their diet

[Leo 1]

I will do it for £100000 !!! hell.. I will do it for half that! thats a nice bird ! would love to fly one of those just once! must be great!

lol i wood love to have the mony to aford one of them lol bloody nice birds and the pawer

[EagleMan]

jus give me time to become an experienced harpy falconer and u will c how big a prey a harpy can takedown, any large and powerful eagle, if given the oppportunity and if they really want to can take down massive prey, and to compensate for usually blunt talons, harpies have massive crushin power

and btw sloths arent the only prey taken by harpies, they comprise only 1/3 of their diet

All the researchers of this species, confirm that in all the sudyed eagles, the sloths are actually 60-70% of their diet.
And tose peoples studyed ahrpy from different countryes like Brasil, Venezuela, Guyana, Colombia, Peru...
Learn more...

[EagleInYarak]

sorry, most of the sources i had told me 1/3, but im always willing to learn more btw im from Guyana

[GoshawkRST]

After I´ve speek with biologists and seen the articles in the magazines we receive from the asosciacion on Harpy Eagles, I would totally agree with " EagleinYarak " and the comparation between the crowned eagle and the harpy eagle is like between the gos and the redtail, the gos with sharp talons and the redtail with bolt talons yet much more poverful in grip and on larger prey.

From what I see in the last messages, Nicu ( Eagleman ) you just don´t let peoples tell them experiences about the Harpyes, you only welcome those about crowned eagles and the other ones you just contradict, this way I am sure peoples with harpy experience will not share with you anymore any experiences.

As for the Slots, it is not true that the harpyes develope to hunt sluts ! Sluts are on theyr list but not their main quarry since they are versatile and adapt to speaces availables.

I will send you something on email this days ;)

Best regards!

[J.P]

As for the Slots, it is not true that the harpyes develope to hunt sluts ! Sluts are on theyr list but not their main quarry since they are versatile and adapt to speaces availables.




Hard thing to get rid of sluts, i hear they carry alot of diseases too? That's what my mum always used to tell me.

[EagleMan]

After I´ve speek with biologists and seen the articles in the magazines we receive from the asosciacion on Harpy Eagles, I would totally agree with " EagleinYarak " and the comparation between the crowned eagle and the harpy eagle is like between the gos and the redtail, the gos with sharp talons and the redtail with bolt talons yet much more poverful in grip and on larger prey.

From what I see in the last messages, Nicu ( Eagleman ) you just don´t let peoples tell them experiences about the Harpyes, you only welcome those about crowned eagles and the other ones you just contradict, this way I am sure peoples with harpy experience will not share with you anymore any experiences.

As for the Slots, it is not true that the harpyes develope to hunt sluts ! Sluts are on theyr list but not their main quarry since they are versatile and adapt to speaces availables.


I will send you something on email this days ;)

Best regards!

Sergiu, I'm open to hear, and eager to learn from anybody's storyes and experience related to harpy eagles, in case you didn't noticed...
People should talk open about any eagle species.
I don't think that my attitude was intimidating or somehaw superiorfor anybody here on this site !
All the best mate !

[Lgthawk]

What a wonderiful post. It took me quite some time to read it all. I have enjoyed it. I spent 3 months in China back in 1993 for a company that I worked for. I was introduced to a Eagle Falconer over there by a friend of mine that worked in the US. He was from Mongolia. I was invited to stay with my co-worker and I had a privdledge of a life time to go out with his Dad and watch him work his Golden Eagle. Every time I had and on my days off I would go and help with farm work and goat hearding.After that we would go out and hunt. I watched that Eagle take a few head of game mostly Rabbits.The one thing that I learned was, the best training meathod was simply spending time with your Eagle. His Eagle was a imprint and he had it for 11 years. You could tell form the feet that the Eagle took some beatings over the years catching foxes.Please keep the thread going and post your pic's. Over this weekend I will try to find some of the pic's to post of that mamath Golden that he had. I would love to have known the weight of that bird.To date it is the largest Golden Eagle that I have ever seen. Of course not the size of the Harpy or Martial. :D Take care, Philip ~ Virginia . USA

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

We have much that to know on these species, the crowned eagle is mentioned how most powerfull because was used with more frequency in falconry, the Harpy only now is being known. In my opinion the Harpy is superior. It is a very big mistake to compare one crowned with a goshawk and a Harpy with a Buteo. As he said before, we have much that to learn.

[EagleInYarak]

with the comparison between gos and rt i meant talons(claws) not talons as in feet
sharp talons killin large prey aint the same as blunt talons doin the same stuff in jus about the same time
and out of curiosity what is the flyin weight of a male and female harpy eagle?

[Craig Kennion]

Hi

Regarding the most powerful eagle- is the debate about which eagle has the
most load-lifting capabilities, or is it about what they can kill?

Anybody have any data regarding the load-lifting capabilities of the crowned?
I know crowned usually dismember their large prey before flying off, but im interested to know whats the most they can carry?
I already have data regarding what a harpy can carry.
I will be grateful for any help regarding what a crowned can carry, i can then compare it to the data i have on harpy.

If its about what they can kill-
The heaviest prey of Harpy is- 8kg two-toed sloths (but not dangerous)
The most dangerous prey of Harpy is 7kg red Howler monkey.

For crowned eagle- the most common prey taken are-

4kg Campbell's Mona Monkey
4kg Lesser white-nosed monkey
5kg Diana monkey
The heaviest monkeys that are commonly taken by crowned eagles are 11kg Sooty Mangabey.
Crowned eagles primarily prey on animals between 3-10kg.

Based only on prey they take- considering the Harpy is almost twice the weight of the Crowned,
i would say "Pound for Pound" the Crowned is stronger, regarding what they kill.

[EagleInYarak]

harpy eagles hav been known to kill deer and grey fox and ocelot

[EagleInYarak]

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=45553&highlight=Harpy+Eagle+pictures

[EagleInYarak]

jus check spizaetos ornatus for a harpy over a fox and other threads for a harpy on a deer and harpys hav also killed dogs, goats,small domestic pigs,and cats

[Craig Kennion]

Hi EagleMan,

Do you have any information about the load-lifting capabilities of the crowned eagle?
I can then compare it to the harpy info.

cheers

[HawkingForever]

YouTube - Golden Eagle Kills Goat for it's prey.
Goldens may not be the strongest but this is still pretty impressive.

[EagleMan]

Alot of help for the liftig...thanks to the thermals, of course!
In fact the thermals did a lot of eagle's job....And yes at the first sight is impressive.

[EagleMan]

Hi EagleMan,

Do you have any information about the load-lifting capabilities of the crowned eagle?
I can then compare it to the harpy info.

cheers

Hello Craig !
A few years ago I saw the animal Planet contest among animals, fortunately i see the episode 11-the one related to strenght. At bird section they tested an female crowned eagle and declared that this is the strongest bird. Period !
Here is a short resume of all the episodes, chec out episode no. 11
Regards!

[EagleMan]

Hi

Regarding the most powerful eagle- is the debate about which eagle has the
most load-lifting capabilities, or is it about what they can kill?

Anybody have any data regarding the load-lifting capabilities of the crowned?
I know crowned usually dismember their large prey before flying off, but im interested to know whats the most they can carry?
I already have data regarding what a harpy can carry.
I will be grateful for any help regarding what a crowned can carry, i can then compare it to the data i have on harpy.

If its about what they can kill-
The heaviest prey of Harpy is- 8kg two-toed sloths (but not dangerous)
The most dangerous prey of Harpy is 7kg red Howler monkey.

For crowned eagle- the most common prey taken are-

4kg Campbell's Mona Monkey
4kg Lesser white-nosed monkey
5kg Diana monkey
The heaviest monkeys that are commonly taken by crowned eagles are 11kg Sooty Mangabey.
Crowned eagles primarily prey on animals between 3-10kg.

Based only on prey they take- considering the Harpy is almost twice the weight of the Crowned,
i would say "Pound for Pound" the Crowned is stronger, regarding what they kill.

Very correct , Craig !
After a lot of researches, these are my opinions too !

[EagleMan]

I mean , here is the resume, sorry
http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/mostextreme/episode/episode_01.html

[Craig Kennion]

I mean , here is the resume, sorry
http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/mostextreme/episode/episode_01.html
Hi EagleMan,

Thanks for the link about the documentary= "The Most Extreme" Unfortunately that documentary seems to contradict the data from "field researchers" that have been monitoring 16 crowned eagle nests over several years.
"The Most Extreme" says- crowneds can carry up to 4 times their weight.
The researchers say- large prey is dismembered before being carried back to the nest, they also say- the largest monkey that crowneds kill are 11kg sooty mangabey.
Crowneds have to dismember 11kg sooty mangabey because they are unable to carry something that heavy (if they could carry it, they would do, but they dont according to researchers).
The question is- after they have dismembered prey into smaller pieces, what is the weight of these smaller pieces they can carry?
Because prey of 11kg is dismembered, that shows us-
they are unable to carry something that heavy, and 11kg is less than 3 times a crowneds weight.
Therefore- "The Most Extreme" was probably wrong for saying 4 times their weight.
Its not the first time "Animal Planet" have exaggerated things.
I will give an example of an animal ive looked after for many years-
I know of at least two programs on "Animal Planet" that said siberian tigers can weigh 800 lbs or more.
In reality- 600 lbs is a large siberian tiger, with 500 lbs being about average, and females about a third less.
Personally, i would believe what researchers tell us, and not always what "Animal Planet" says!
On another thread- ive already posted a link to a report about the monitoring of crowneds.

cheers

[EagleWoman11]

Hi EagleMan,

Thanks for the link about the documentary= "The Most Extreme" Unfortunately that documentary seems to contradict the data from "field researchers" that have been monitoring 16 crowned eagle nests over several years.
"The Most Extreme" says- crowneds can carry up to 4 times their weight.
The researchers say- large prey is dismembered before being carried back to the nest, they also say- the largest monkey that crowneds kill are 11kg sooty mangabey.
Crowneds have to dismember 11kg sooty mangabey because they are unable to carry something that heavy (if they could carry it, they would do, but they dont according to researchers).
The question is- after they have dismembered prey into smaller pieces, what is the weight of these smaller pieces they can carry?
Because prey of 11kg is dismembered, that shows us-
they are unable to carry something that heavy, and 11kg is less than 3 times a crowneds weight.
Therefore- "The Most Extreme" was probably wrong for saying 4 times their weight.
Its not the first time "Animal Planet" have exaggerated things.
I will give an example of an animal ive looked after for many years-
I know of at least two programs on "Animal Planet" that said siberian tigers can weigh 800 lbs or more.
In reality- 600 lbs is a large siberian tiger, with 500 lbs being about average, and females about a third less.
Personally, i would believe what researchers tell us, and not always what "Animal Planet" says!
On another thread- ive already posted a link to a report about the monitoring of crowneds.

cheers
From that post Craig, sound`s to me African Crowned Eagle`s would NOT be capable of taken Baboon adult :?:

[Tony123ABC]

I am curious, if the child chomping eagle had eaten your little Betsy , would it still have been unfortunate that a local woman and her prositute friend killed it? Humans over birds guys. Well, most humans anyway.

[Craig Kennion]

From that post Craig, sound`s to me African Crowned Eagle`s would NOT be capable of taken Baboon adult :?:
According to researchers thats been studying crowneds- the largest monkeys killed by crowneds are- 11kg sooty mangabey, and the maximum prey is up to 20kg.
Adult male baboons weigh around 30kg, therefore, male baboons would not be killed by crowned eagles.
Ive read data from researchers who said- 20kg is the maximum prey a crowned can kill,
and also a famous researcher- Paul Myburgh who also said- they can kill prey up to 5 times their weight.
5 times their size is about 20kg, considering female crowneds only weigh about 4kg.
Even though ive not read any data about them killing female baboons- i think it might be possible considering females baboons weigh about 20kg and that is the maximum weight that a crowned can kill.
However, ive never heard any researcher saying they could kill a female, its just their weight is about the same as the 20kg maximum they could kill.
Perhaps crowneds might not even be able to kill female baboons,
because researchers say- the largest monkey they kill are- 11kg male sooty mangabey.

cheers

[Mart]

Anton posted this in a yahoo group we had once

His Martial Eagle
http://www.falconersalmanac.com/Images/antonmartialeagle.jpg

[EagleMan]

According to researchers thats been studying crowneds- the largest monkeys killed by crowneds are- 11kg sooty mangabey, and the maximum prey is up to 20kg.
Adult male baboons weigh around 30kg, therefore, male baboons would not be killed by crowned eagles.
Ive read data from researchers who said- 20kg is the maximum prey a crowned can kill,
and also a famous researcher- Paul Myburgh who also said- they can kill prey up to 5 times their weight.
5 times their size is about 20kg, considering female crowneds only weigh about 4kg.
Even though ive not read any data about them killing female baboons- i think it might be possible considering females baboons weigh about 20kg and that is the maximum weight that a crowned can kill.
However, ive never heard any researcher saying they could kill a female, its just their weight is about the same as the 20kg maximum they could kill.
Perhaps crowneds might not even be able to kill female baboons,
because researchers say- the largest monkey they kill are- 11kg male sooty mangabey.

cheers

Hello !
For me an 5 kilo female crowned who is lifting in the air a 11 kilo monkey, well that's impressive, in fact judging from these data, crowned is more powerfull than harpy who can't fly even with an equla sized prey...
And you are werong, Mr. Myburgh and other ornithologists have documented crowned killing baboon adults, NOT lifting them...
A crowned can kill any baboon male if it grabed first from the head-neack area...
An crowned eagle can kill without problems even adult humans...in fact there are some authethic relates about golden eagle killing human adults (some tragic falconry accidents).
And everybody know that an crowned is far more stronger than a gloden..

Little off topic :
Tigers rules for all eagles !:supz:

All the best !

[Craig Kennion]

Hello !
For me an 5 kilo female crowned who is lifting in the air a 11 kilo monkey, well that's impressive, in fact judging from these data, crowned is more powerfull than harpy who can't fly even with an equla sized prey...
And you are werong, Mr. Myburgh and other ornithologists have documented crowned killing baboon adults, NOT lifting them...
A crowned can kill any baboon male if it grabed first from the head-neack area...
An crowned eagle can kill without problems even adult humans...in fact there are some authethic relates about golden eagle killing human adults (some tragic falconry accidents).
And everybody know that an crowned is far more stronger than a gloden..

Little off topic :
Tigers rules for all eagles !:supz:

All the best !
Hi Eagleman,

Below ive posted a link to a report from "field researchers" that have been monitoring 16 crowned eagles nests, from the years 1998-2001.
The report lists all the monkeys killed by crowneds during the monitoring years, and the largest was 11kg male sooty mangabey, and the report also says the maximum weight crowneds can kill is 20kg prey.
Male baboons weigh around 30kg which is well over the maximum weight a crowned can kill which is 20kg according to researchers.
The report below also says- the weight for crowneds is around 4kg infact it says 3.8kg.
Crowneds dont normally weigh 5kg, most are nearer 4kg.
Paul Myburgh also said in "Talon, an Eagles story" that they kill up to 5 times their weight.
Considering most females weigh around 4kg that means Paul Myburgh would of meant 20kg was the largest they kill, which is the same maximum weight the report below says.
How can you say they kill male baboons? when they weigh around 30kg, which is well over the maximum weight crowneds kill according to researchers and Paul Myburgh.
When Paul Myburgh said in his film- "crowneds are the predator regarding baboons" he was not meaning they kill adults, if he thought they killed adult males he would of said- crowneds could kill up to 7-8 their weight, because that is the difference between a crowned and a adult male baboon, however he only says up to 5 times their weight, therefore its a lot less than a male baboon.
Regarding when Paul Myburgh said in his film- "crowneds are the predator regarding baboons"
I will give an example of what he ment-
Tigers do not kill adult elephants, but the same can be said about those two-
"tigers are the predator regarding elephants" because they kill "young elephants" and because of that elephants are nervous of tigers, and tigers are known as the predator.
Paul Myburgh comment "crowneds are the predator regarding baboons" is only because crowneds kill "young baboons" and because of that- crowneds are the predator and baboons are nervous of them.
If crowneds could kill adult male baboons who weigh around 30kg, then why does the report below say only up to 20kg and Paul Myburgh also says they can kill up to 5 times their weight.
The report below and Paul Myburgh are saying the same thing- because 5 times and 20kg is the same amount, considering researchers say crowneds weigh around 4kg.
According to researchers 20kg is the maximum, however the report also says crowneds primarily kill things between 3-10 kg.

The only way you can prove these researchers wrong in the report below- is if you go yourself and film crowneds killing adult baboons, and then that will prove the report is wrong.
All these researchers say- 20kg is the maximum but primarily its between 3-10kg.- so why do you think they kill male baboons who weigh around 30kg ???

You also said about a crowned lifting a 11kg monkey.
The report also says- Crowneds have to dismember 11kg sooty mangabey because they are unable to carry something that heavy (if they could carry it, they would do, but they dont according to researchers).

I would normally ask you to post a report from researchers to prove all these other researchers was wrong, but we both know you dont have any reports to prove the information is wrong, or you would post them, but we both know you dont have any.
If you want to contradict this report, please post a more resent report from researchers.
But we both know you have not got any or you would post it!

Here is the report-
http://www.liv.ac.uk/evolpsyc/mcgraw_cooke_shultz.pdf

cheers

[Tony123ABC]

So, researchers were on hand 24 hrs. a day for ever and have on sight witnessed each and every kill ever made by a crowned eagle? I am sure that eagles have killed prey not listed in reports. I am sure thet the odd eagle can and will take prey thought well out of it's range. Could happen & probably has happened. Me, don't know for sure but I know my hawks have done some things not common to their species. just sayin absolute are not always absolutes

[Craig Kennion]

So, researchers were on hand 24 hrs. a day for ever and have on sight witnessed each and every kill ever made by a crowned eagle? I am sure that eagles have killed prey not listed in reports. I am sure thet the odd eagle can and will take prey thought well out of it's range. Could happen & probably has happened. Me, don't know for sure but I know my hawks have done some things not common to their species. just sayin absolute are not always absolutes
They based their report on bones found near or around the 16 nests that was monitored,
therefore they did not have to watch for 24 hours a day to find the evidence.
Data from researchers are our best indicator into the lives of a species they study.
There is no scientific evidence to suggest they kill adult male baboons.

[walkerkate]

Hi to all

Thats my first message...

I have no expereince with eagles, especially with crowned eagles...but I dont really think they would be able to catch a powerful monkey, like a fully grown baboon (just simply personal opinion). Even leopards can be frightened by these monkeys.

Where I think I can add more info to this topic, is the weight of the baboons. Only Mandrill and Chacma baboon males avareges around 30 kg (up to even 54 kg for the Mandrill), other species are (sometimes much) smaller. Females of baboon species rarely weigh 20 kg (mostly in captivity), they are around 10-15 kg usually, or lighter.
Here are the average weight of baboon species (males first...)
- Mandrillus sphinx 31.6 kg /12.9 kg
- Mandrillus leucophaeus 20.0 kg/12.5 kg
- Papio anubis 25.1 kg / 13.3 kg
- Papio cynocephalus 21.8 kg/12.3 kg
- Papio ursinus 29.8 kg/14.8 kg
- Papio hamadryas 16.9 kg/9.9 kg
- Theropithecus gelada 19.0 kg/11.7 kg

Source:Body mass in comparative primatology (Richard J. Smith and William L. Jungers)

There is one documented predation though: in the magazine Africa Birds & Birding (Volume 9, nr. 6, 2004 december) there is an article about a Martial Eagle catching a young Chacma baboon. A flying eagle in low height often makes the baboons react the same way as they do when a leopard is near. Its even noted in the article that "perhaps the eagles pose more of a threat to baboons than we realise"
So there is always a possibility of course...I've read somewhere that the feet of a crowned eagle are the most powerful weaponry of the african continent for a carnivorous animal, its grip is stronger (? could this be true) than the bone-breaking jaws of the spotted hyena. Very impressive....but an adult male baboon is a bit too much for an eagle in my opinion.

cheers

[Craig Kennion]

Hi to all

Thats my first message...

I have no expereince with eagles, especially with crowned eagles...but I dont really think they would be able to catch a powerful monkey, like a fully grown baboon (just simply personal opinion). Even leopards can be frightened by these monkeys.

Where I think I can add more info to this topic, is the weight of the baboons. Only Mandrill and Chacma baboon males avareges around 30 kg (up to even 54 kg for the Mandrill), other species are (sometimes much) smaller. Females of baboon species rarely weigh 20 kg (mostly in captivity), they are around 10-15 kg usually, or lighter.
Here are the average weight of baboon species (males first...)
- Mandrillus sphinx 31.6 kg /12.9 kg
- Mandrillus leucophaeus 20.0 kg/12.5 kg
- Papio anubis 25.1 kg / 13.3 kg
- Papio cynocephalus 21.8 kg/12.3 kg
- Papio ursinus 29.8 kg/14.8 kg
- Papio hamadryas 16.9 kg/9.9 kg
- Theropithecus gelada 19.0 kg/11.7 kg

Source:Body mass in comparative primatology (Richard J. Smith and William L. Jungers)

There is one documented predation though: in the magazine Africa Birds & Birding (Volume 9, nr. 6, 2004 december) there is an article about a Martial Eagle catching a young Chacma baboon. A flying eagle in low height often makes the baboons react the same way as they do when a leopard is near. Its even noted in the article that "perhaps the eagles pose more of a threat to baboons than we realise"
So there is always a possibility of course...I've read somewhere that the feet of a crowned eagle are the most powerful weaponry of the african continent for a carnivorous animal, its grip is stronger (? could this be true) than the bone-breaking jaws of the spotted hyena. Very impressive....but an adult male baboon is a bit too much for an eagle in my opinion.

cheers
Hi walkerkate,

Welcome to the forum.
Good of you to post the baboon weights.
I only said 20kg females because i thought they was about two thirds the weight of males, i had not realized females are only half the weight of males.
I just knew the males of the larger species was around 30kg.
Sounds like the females could be within the weight range that crowned eagles can kill.
However, not seen any evidence that crowned eagles prey on healthy adult female baboons, only their young.

cheers

[walkerkate]

Yes, some monkey species (especially Mandrills) has very well developed sexual size dimorphism, as you can see males are almost 3 times heavier, exceptionally they can weigh 4 times as much as females, but the usual for other species is that males are roughly twice the size. Its a falconry forum and I dont wanna post here primate photos, but Im sure plenty are available on the internet, so you can check them.
So, even though smaller baboon species like Hamadryas and Gelada is within the range of the crowned eagle can kill, I would say a 20 kg male baboon is a much dangerous prey for an eagle, than a 20 kg antelope.
Not to mention I had an article (but due to computer difficulties I lost it) about a Sanje mangabey killing a female crowned eagle when she attacked them...I see no reason why an eagle would challenge a dangerous animal, like a baboon, even though it probably has the weaponry and the power to kill it. But I also never read that it has happened yet.

[Craig Kennion]

Yes, some monkey species (especially Mandrills) has very well developed sexual size dimorphism, as you can see males are almost 3 times heavier, exceptionally they can weigh 4 times as much as females, but the usual for other species is that males are roughly twice the size. Its a falconry forum and I dont wanna post here primate photos, but Im sure plenty are available on the internet, so you can check them.
So, even though smaller baboon species like Hamadryas and Gelada is within the range of the crowned eagle can kill, I would say a 20 kg male baboon is a much dangerous prey for an eagle, than a 20 kg antelope.
Not to mention I had an article (but due to computer difficulties I lost it) about a Sanje mangabey killing a female crowned eagle when she attacked them...I see no reason why an eagle would challenge a dangerous animal, like a baboon, even though it probably has the weaponry and the power to kill it. But I also never read that it has happened yet.
Hi walkerkate,
As your a biologist, i believe what you said, therefore- ive no need to check up on what you said about the monkeys.
For the first two years- i worked at the zoo looking after small primates-
capuchins, spider monkey, squirrel monkey (never baboons) and then i did 18 years on big cats.
Yes, even a 10kg baboon would be more dangerous than a 20 kg antelope.
When researchers said- 20kg max, i think they was referring to deer etc.
they also said- 11kg male sooty mangabey was the largest monkey killed by crowned eagles.
Regarding what you said about crowned eagles not attacking baboons-
Its the same with any predator (sure your already aware) when the risks are too high, they go for something easier.
A male baboon would be too much of a risk for a crowned eagle, therefore, they would go for something easier.
All it would need is one miss guided foot on a adult baboon and the eagle would be killed.
All predators (including eagles) will often miss the planned area they want to strike like the head, neck etc, and then they will need to reapply a foot (in the case of eagles) to finish it off.
If that happens with a adult baboon, the eagle will be killed.
Eagles know that can happen, (and that would eventually happen if they started preying on adult baboons) therefore- they dont attack them, and go for something easier.

[Mart]

Im unsure about all this baboon info ect ect

I think the point is eagles HAVE the power to kill xx animal.
The question of them actually doing so is rather academic.

Just because you can doesnt mean you do!

No predator (with the exception of man) unless forced by extreme hunger is going to take a risk that would endanger its life. Killing a male healthy baboon would constitute a major risk in my opinion & being there is no evidence of any eagle having done so it's a pointless discussion :)

As for eagles taking small children .... yes 20000 years ago in what is now N.Zealand...present times I highly doubt it. And seeing that info is based on the word of other people yes well other people have seen the aliens make crop circles & big hairy feet bounding through US forests.....
Nice zoo-olgical data tho :supz:

[Tony123ABC]

Okay, what about the Steller's Sea Eagle? I heard one took a dolphin! :oIt was off the coast of Hokido Japan. Well, maybe it was already dead. But what about the Steller's?

[Craig Kennion]

Im unsure about all this baboon info ect ect

I think the point is eagles HAVE the power to kill xx animal.
The question of them actually doing so is rather academic.

Just because you can doesnt mean you do!

No predator (with the exception of man) unless forced by extreme hunger is going to take a risk that would endanger its life. Killing a male healthy baboon would constitute a major risk in my opinion & being there is no evidence of any eagle having done so it's a pointless discussion :)

I agree 100% with you and walkerkate- in thinking an eagle would not prey on a healthy male baboon.
Two reasons- makes sense, and no evidence.

[EagleMan]

Hi walkerkate,
As your a biologist, i believe what you said, therefore- ive no need to check up on what you said about the monkeys.
For the first two years- i worked at the zoo looking after small primates-
capuchins, spider monkey, squirrel monkey (never baboons) and then i did 18 years on big cats.
Yes, even a 10kg baboon would be more dangerous than a 20 kg antelope.
When researchers said- 20kg max, i think they was referring to deer etc.
they also said- 11kg male sooty mangabey was the largest monkey killed by crowned eagles.
Regarding what you said about crowned eagles not attacking baboons-
Its the same with any predator (sure your already aware) when the risks are too high, they go for something easier.
A male baboon would be too much of a risk for a crowned eagle, therefore, they would go for something easier.
All it would need is one miss guided foot on a adult baboon and the eagle would be killed.
All predators (including eagles) will often miss the planned area they want to strike like the head, neck etc, and then they will need to reapply a foot (in the case of eagles) to finish it off.
If that happens with a adult baboon, the eagle will be killed.
Eagles know that can happen, (and that would eventually happen if they started preying on adult baboons) therefore- they dont attack them, and go for something easier.

Hello Craig !
I know that study...it look dense and serious but only took info from only two locations in Africa, Kibale and Tai forests...and in those two areas no baboonS occure, these are typical humid african forests where no baboon livE.
Of course, an healthy adult male baboon is not an common prey for the crowned eagles, but like I said before kills like that sometime happens in the wild.
Also I read about an SA austringer who successfully fly his crowned female who killed the baboon...
Come one...even an martial eagle can kill the baboon even the largest male, if the eagle grabbed first the head, neck area...not to mention an crowned.
There are numerous descriptions of the predation anct of crowned against the baboons...
Authors like MyBurgh, Steyn, Tarbooton...
Of course the vast majority of the baboon victims are cubs and females, but there are even some males registered, a few of course...
But imagine that :
In order to kill an cub or a female , the crowned mut pass the male, and everyone knows thet the male baboons are fierce defenders of theit troop memberes...
There is an incident in wich an crowned female grabbed am male baboon and the other males jumped to save him, of couse the crowned abandonet it's prey and flew away for savety...no eagle can defeat an bunch of male baboons...
And guess what's happened with the grabbed male ?
That particular male was so badly injured that he died a week before....
It says a lot about those eagle's fierce power to kill !
Anyway this eagle species is fascinating, so more study in depht of this eagle is needed.

[EagleMan]

Okay, what about the Steller's Sea Eagle? I heard one took a dolphin! :oIt was off the coast of Hokido Japan. Well, maybe it was already dead. But what about the Steller's?
in terms of power to kill, Stellers are weak...
thay are just big eagles...more specifically fish eagles....
A larger version of white tailed and bald eagles.
Except therir size and weight these eagles has nothing spectacular...

[Tony123ABC]

Don't discount fish eagles. The Stellers is 6,800-8,900 gms. per Brown and Amandon. They eat sable, fox, geese. I would bet that if trained and given an opportunity, they could do more. I doubt they would do anything agil. I worked A decent size African fish eagle and she was pretty darn strong. Big bird, pretty strong. However, like stated earlier, fish eagles are pretty silly birds. But I do see the Bald eagle doing some semi-neet things every now and then. But generally, the large forest eagles are pretty hard to beat as bad **** birds.

[Craig Kennion]

Hello Craig !
I know that study...it look dense and serious but only took info from only two locations in Africa, Kibale and Tai forests...and in those two areas no baboonS occure, these are typical humid african forests where no baboon livE.
Of course, an healthy adult male baboon is not an common prey for the crowned eagles, but like I said before kills like that sometime happens in the wild.
Also I read about an SA austringer who successfully fly his crowned female who killed the baboon...
Come one...even an martial eagle can kill the baboon even the largest male, if the eagle grabbed first the head, neck area...not to mention an crowned.
There are numerous descriptions of the predation anct of crowned against the baboons...
Authors like MyBurgh, Steyn, Tarbooton...
Of course the vast majority of the baboon victims are cubs and females, but there are even some males registered, a few of course...
But imagine that :
In order to kill an cub or a female , the crowned mut pass the male, and everyone knows thet the male baboons are fierce defenders of theit troop memberes...
There is an incident in wich an crowned female grabbed am male baboon and the other males jumped to save him, of couse the crowned abandonet it's prey and flew away for savety...no eagle can defeat an bunch of male baboons...
And guess what's happened with the grabbed male ?
That particular male was so badly injured that he died a week before....
It says a lot about those eagle's fierce power to kill !
Anyway this eagle species is fascinating, so more study in depht of this eagle is needed.
Hi Eagleman,

For me to accept these claims about them killing adult male baboons- i will need to see these
reports and then check their authenticity before i can accept it.
Therefore, please post a link to these reports.
I doubt you have any genuine reports- if you had, you would of posted them on this thread by now!
There are reasons why i doubt these reports are genuine-
because they contradict genuine reports by researchers.
Mr Myburgh is a well respected crowned eagle researcher, therefore- if he said they can kill them, the other researchers would also say they can, but they dont.
Ive also searched the internet, and theres no mention of them killing adult male baboons from all the reports ive read.
Therefore, i doubt you have any genuine reports that say they do.
Im not sure where your getting your information from?
because there is a few things you have said is wrong;
You said- they can carry a 11kg monkey.
But according to this report- http://www.liv.ac.uk/evolpsyc/mcgraw_cooke_shultz.pdf
11kg sooty mangabey are dismembered into smaller pieces before being carried away (because 11kg is too much to carry, and thats why they dismember it, according to researchers)
They would not waist time dismembering if they could carry it.
You also said- 5kg females.
A few may be that heavy, but its not the norm.
Reserchers say females are around 4kg.
Also "hawkeagle" said on another thread-
from 10 samples the heaviest was only 4.4kg.
If they normally weighed 5kg, then out of 10 birds- some would of at least been 5kg, but the heaviest was only 4.4kg from those 10 birds!
Its obvious some of your information is wrong, therefore, for me to accept what your saying about baboons, i will first need to see these reports and then check if they are genuine.
Regarding what you said about the falconer using his bird against baboons-
Just because someone said it- does not mean its true.
Where i go walking theres someone who flys a harris hawk, and after talking to him for a while- i asked him what he kills with it?
He said- had many fox (red fox)
I said- how old was the cubs?
He said- not cubs, but adults (i had to stop myself laughing)
he then went on to say- if that sounds impressive, she took an adult badger once. (i just smiled)
In other words- just because someone says- they use their bird against baboons, does not mean its true!

[Yorky]

Oh come on! My Eagles bigger than your eagle, no it isnt, yes it it is, no it isnt...if someone has a reasonable source and they are certain of it, great, maybe a pm discussion would make more sense than this drivel.:box::box::box::box:

[HawkEagle]

The biggest crowned eagle I have is 4.5 max or even less. The male I have is 2.7 kgs may be 3 kgs when fully fat. The power is enormous even for my male bird, he could pierce 6mm, 3 layers glove at ease. I still bear injury from the bird pierce the glove. The leather of my glove is not crappy either it's 2mm thick, if you cut a slit and rip it will not tear. This bird will not have you on your knees from heavy grabbing but it will have you removing the glove so quickly to save you hand. I will show his pic later.

[Craig Kennion]

The biggest crowned eagle I have is 4.5 max or even less. The male I have is 2.7 kgs may be 3 kgs when fully fat. The power is enormous even for my male bird, he could pierce 6mm, 3 layers glove at ease. I still bear injury from the bird pierce the glove. The leather of my glove is not crappy either it's 2mm thick, if you cut a slit and rip it will not tear. This bird will not have you on your knees from heavy grabbing but it will have you removing the glove so quickly to save you hand. I will show his pic later.
Hi Hawkeagle,

Sounds like you have a big bird at 4.5kg, considering you said on your thread-the largest of 10 samples was 4.4kg.
Crowned eagles are magnificent birds.
Look forward to seeing your pics.

[AdeyHawk1970]

[quote=Yorky;841247]Oh come on! My Eagles bigger than your eagle, no it isnt, yes it it is, no it isnt...if someone has a reasonable source and they are certain of it, great, maybe a pm discussion would make more sense than this drivel.
But we would never had heard about the hh that catches foxes and badgers:lol::lol::lol: