Falconry Knot?

[Minty]

I am just getting the Hang of this Knot. Basic stuff i know but important. I hear that many can't tie one?

Can you?

[Minty]

bE HONEST WITH YOURSELF AFTER ALL ITS ONLY YOU WHO KNOWS

[Kanati]

yes... with both hands...and with both hands at the same time (if i ever needed too) - and with my eyes closed!
the things you learn when you're birdless and keen! :D

[HunterPaul]

yes... with both hands...and with both hands at the same time (if i ever needed too) - and with my eyes closed!
the things you learn when you're birdless and keen! :D
try it with one hand....I know I know.... kills me to watch someone sit a bird on the perch then grab the leash in two hands and put 500 knots in it....

[Addi]

im sorry but anyone who cant tie a falconers knot shoudnt have the name falconer!.... its basic stuf and if some one cant find the time to tie a knot that stops there new bird from flying off with swivel and leash attched, they shouldnt be allowed to keep a bird

[HunterPaul]

well said addi....are we related...

[Kanati]

what about people who cant tie knots for a genuine reason? they could always use a loop leash...doesnt make them any less of a falconer does it??? any one armed falconers out there???

[HunterPaul]

depends on reason ...give an eg

[Kanati]

Arthritis - can hold leash well enough to use loop leash, but cant use fingers properly.?????

[Wilded]

Unless you have a handicap learn how to do what is right. Laziness is not a handicap! :)

[HunterPaul]

how do they manage to hold the bird when out flying..... or get tidbits out or attach the leashto mews jesses..... it aint that hard...and doesnt take a great deal of maneouvrability to achieve ...there are far more complicated things in falconry... it can be achieved with one finger and a thumb... so ...

[Kanati]

Unless you have a handicap learn how to do what is right. Laziness is not a handicap! :)

Shouldn’t we all be using a loop leash? They are said to be safer when leaving you bird tethered? Maybe we are all being lazy by opting for the easy traditional method???

[HunterPaul]

i dont use loop leashes but I found the one I did try more hastle and more fiddlesome than the knot anyway....

[DeathFromAbove]

it's a time served traditional way of securing the bop and should be manditory (unless medical reasons state otherwise), a fair ammount of the techniques and equipment today haven't changed much since medieval times, i'm all for advances in the sport to improve safety but i believe that if summit ain't broke don't fix it. new and improved isn't always better.

[HunterPaul]

would it be easier to put on a loop leash late at night in the pitch black than tying the knot?

[Kanati]

how do they manage to hold the bird when out flying..... or get tidbits out or attach the leashto mews jesses..... it aint that hard...and doesnt take a great deal of maneouvrability to achieve ...there are far more complicated things in falconry... it can be achieved with one finger and a thumb... so ...


sorry ...they have only got it in 3 finger, on one hand (can happen!) so can do the jesses, swivel, etc... but cant move enough to tie knots.

Someone out there must be like this...come on! rescue me! i'm sinking here!

[HunterPaul]

you are sunk mate I could teach the fictitious person in question to tie a knot with that amount of fingers got a mate with thalidomide, who did some cage fighting so tying a falconers knot with threefingers of limited use is nothing...

[Addi]

Unless you have a handicap learn how to do what is right. Laziness is not a handicap! :)

well said ...

im sorry but people who cant be arsed to sit and learn a falconers knot properly so just tie 64 granny knots instead should not be allowed to own bop ....

when they get there new bird im sure it will enjoy being hung upside down for half an hour while a useless 'falconer' struggles to undo his own work! .. we use a quick release knot for a reason, imagine if the young bird got tangled up ... fancy sitting for 30 minutes untieing your 'knot' while an unmanned female redtail is trying to hold your hand ? .... get real!

the only excuse is as kanati said when a disability stops it being realistic and then can a suitable alternative be found and by suitable i stil dont mean 64 granny knots ...

steps down off soap box ... rant over

craig

[HunterPaul]

putting the jesses through the swivel is far more difficult than tying the knot

[Kanati]

ok - i will admit defeat...it was a good fight while it lasted :D

[HunterPaul]

ya push over...you should have lied like i did about a mate with no arms beating tyson in a fist fight....

[Kanati]

********...arse .#*~$ !!! i totally baught that story! :D

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Surely everyone who calls themselves a falconer knows how to tie a falconers knot??

Bloody hell, it was the first thing I learnt, can tie the sodding thing in the dark, light, round a corner etc etc.






You are kidding, no one uses granny knots do they? Oh please......

[Pitbull]

i thought i had mastered it deyes closed not spilling a glass of water etc etc but that was to the perch but when it was to the glove i had to rework my brain to turn my thumb the opposite way or am i doinging it all wrong

[Tim Laycock]

Im afraid that if I saw someone securing a hawk with "Granny knots" I would have to run up and kick them in the back as they were doing it.

******S!

A falconers knot if tied properly is the simplest and easiest means of securing any hawk to a perch.

Tying a proper falconers knot is not a matter of dexterity.
If you have the strength in your arm to pull it tight, this is all that is required.

[Blaze]

It didnt take me long to be able to do it....Dont even think about it whilst doing it.....**** easy

[Minty]

I tried it yesterday for the first time and did struggle but then i was handicapped at being to bloody excitee over jessy's first kill and havin a blinding headache.
Got it sussed today though.
I know there is only one knot followed up by a second for security but what about this lot?

http://www.themodernapprentice.com/knot.htm


Might be a good idea to have a 'sticky'. Especially for newbies....Can only be for the good!

[Blaze]

I tried it yesterday for the first time and did struggle but then i was handicapped at being to bloody excitee over jessy's first kill and havin a blinding headache.
Got it sussed today though.
I know there is only one knot followed up by a second for security but what about this lot?

http://www.themodernapprentice.com/knot.htm


Might be a good idea to have a 'sticky'. Especially for newbies....Can only be for the good!
More words of wisdom from the bright spark:toimonst: lol

[Minty]

More words of wisdom from the bright spark:toimonst: lol

Why Thanyou Mr Blaze a bright spark i am although i see myself as a burning flame full of vigour and vitality and rightly so. I clicked on your Icon and it says 'Toilet Monster'.

I thought it would benefit newcomers and the new birds they handle, i fail to see it as a 'Toilet Monster' remark.

But then what is a 'Toilet Monster'? Do you know what it is Mr Blaze

[Blaze]

Why Thanyou Mr Blaze a bright spark i am although i see myself as a burning flame full of vigour and vitality and rightly so. I clicked on your Icon and it says 'Toilet Monster'.

I thought it would benefit newcomers and the new birds they handle, i fail to see it as a 'Toilet Monster' remark.

But then what is a 'Toilet Monster'? Do you know what it is Mr Blaze
Just thought it looked good fella

[Minty]

Just thought it looked good fella

Indeed my goodfriend:yawinkle:

[MattSpar]

Personally, I prefer the clip from an old dog lead when tethering my birds. Saves all that tedious learning of the proper knot. Why, it must take all of 10 minutes to learn, and the fact it has numerous other uses quite apart from tethering birds is not worthy of mention. Not worth the trouble if you ask me. Just bung 'em on the perch and snap the clip. Easy. I've only had a couple of birds escape from the block lately, so what the heck say I (In order to forestall comments from the less perceptive, one may detect a modicum of facetiousness here).

[HunterPaul]

Personally, I prefer the clip from an old dog lead when tethering my birds. Saves all that tedious learning of the proper knot. Why, it must take all of 10 minutes to learn, and the fact it has numerous other uses quite apart from tethering birds is not worthy of mention. Not worth the trouble if you ask me. Just bung 'em on the perch and snap the clip. Easy. I've only had a couple of birds escape from the block lately, so what the heck say I (In order to forestall comments from the less perceptive, one may detect a modicum of facetiousness here).
what a ridiculous post matt spar, I would have expected far more from a person with your experience and knowledge ...what are you thinking...you know half the people on this forum dont know what words like...perceptive ...modicum and facetiosness mean...I would have credited you with more fore thought.....lol;-)

[Allan]

If I,d seen a poll named CAN YOU TIE A FALCONERS KNOT on a Falconry forum 3 months ago I would have laughed and logged off.I,ve been flying Hawks for 8 years now and consider myself a competant falconer and make all my kit.
I was approached at our Club meet by a member and agreed to go out with him for a mornings Hawking.
This bloke is into his third season.
HE CANT TIE A FALCONERS KNOT...
HE CANT MAKE JESSES...or even pronounce the word
HE DOESNT KNOW HOW MANY FEATHERS ARE IN A TRAIN
HE HASNT GOT A LURE...or even know how to make one
HE DOESNT KNOW HOW TO CORRECTLY SECURE THE JESSES AND LEASH WITHIN THE GLOVE....He uses bullets and a dog clasp attached to his D ring
HE CANT MAKE AND FIT A TAIL BELL
HES NEVER COPED HIS HAWK
HE CANT IMP
and lastly..............HE FLIES A FHH at 1.13oz
A pretty sad state of affairs...........

[MattSpar]

Well, wot I meantersay wuz why bovver wiv a bleedin' nott anyways eh? Use a bleedin' dog leed klip like me innit? Lern a folcuners nott? To much lice 'ard wurk that iz mush. So I looz the odd bird - whatever!! ( More suitable HP?)

[HunterPaul]

I reckon that is now acceptable :-D mattspar.... made me laugh anywaylol

[MattSpar]

Hmmm.. The perils of a proper education. Sorry.... The aggro of bein' taught proper.

[HunterPaul]

why wot school did you went to.....

[MattSpar]

Just the local Grammar School, and to college after that. But WHAT a Grammar School it was. Teachers were teachers there, and looked the part in mortar- board and gown (shades of "Goodbye Mr Chips"). Discipline was discipline, and pupils did as they were told. All a very long time ago now.
Apologies, seem to be straying from the thread.

[LeighJauncey]

...."why wot school did you went to....."

saym wun az mee - wee ad a rite larf - az well az gettin lernd gud.

[MattSpar]

Indeed LJ, just as you say.

[FlameHairedFalconer]

If I,d seen a poll named CAN YOU TIE A FALCONERS KNOT on a Falconry forum 3 months ago I would have laughed and logged off.I,ve been flying Hawks for 8 years now and consider myself a competant falconer and make all my kit.
I was approached at our Club meet by a member and agreed to go out with him for a mornings Hawking.
This bloke is into his third season.
HE CANT TIE A FALCONERS KNOT...
HE CANT MAKE JESSES...or even pronounce the word
HE DOESNT KNOW HOW MANY FEATHERS ARE IN A TRAIN
HE HASNT GOT A LURE...or even know how to make one
HE DOESNT KNOW HOW TO CORRECTLY SECURE THE JESSES AND LEASH WITHIN THE GLOVE....He uses bullets and a dog clasp attached to his D ring
HE CANT MAKE AND FIT A TAIL BELL
HES NEVER COPED HIS HAWK
HE CANT IMP
and lastly..............HE FLIES A FHH at 1.13oz
A pretty sad state of affairs...........

<sigh> and some people dont like the idea of a state sponsered apprenticeship scheme complete with exam on husbandry and housing.....

Bullets and a dog clasp...that has to be the complete height of lazyness. Is he in his third season and on his third bird?

[Allan]

Thanks for the reply...........
Hes on his second Hawk....I returned the first,an eyass MHH,after the IBR contacted me.It was stood in a tree on an Army Base.It knew no food call,no whislte(I tried it although I dont use it exept for the dog),and I eventually got him with a dragged,gutted,albeit FROZEN Rabbit.It took me three days to pick him up,and being self employed,a loss in money........But a decent bloke would do the same for me......When he picked him up from me I mentioned the terrible mantling...He replied...All Males do that dont they?
A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS.

[HunterPaul]

Just the local Grammar School, and to college after that. But WHAT a Grammar School it was. Teachers were teachers there, and looked the part in mortar- board and gown (shades of "Goodbye Mr Chips"). Discipline was discipline, and pupils did as they were told. All a very long time ago now.
Apologies, seem to be straying from the thread.
apologies for what?????????????????? I am confused....
what school did you went to ...was in fact a joke, not a request for your actual schooling....
and the post prior to that was also a big joke ...I actually thought you had got that.... hence the lol and smilies that accompanied it...

[MattSpar]

Um, yes HP, I did actually get it. My early posts on this forum gained me the epithets "arrogant" and "confrontational". Quite possibly true. The short "CV" was merely my attempt at being friendly. Something in which my education may have been lacking.
To return to the thread, since learning the knot a long time ago, I find it invaluable for tying up not only hawks, but dogs, horses, boats, and also my children, when they were small. Used it on various girlfriends too as I recall. Ah nostalgia.... they don't make feelings like that anymore. Still, enough of an old man's musty memories. Now, where the hell has the nurse hidden my zimmer frame?

[HunterPaul]

i actually took the short cv as being freindly.... it was the apologies bit I didnt quite understand...this was followed by question marks to let you know about my confusion....
unfortunately you brushed over that and I still am confused at why an apology would be needed....

[MattSpar]

Don't worry about it HP, being confused is a normal state of affairs for me. As I recall, I apologised for straying from the subject of the thread or something like that. Ho hum, no need to keep thrashing it over. What say you? Now, what was I talking about?

[HunterPaul]

aaaaaaaaaaaargh.....what a dick....Ive just re read it...and it says ...apologies, seem to be straying from the thread....
where as I stupid stupid stupidly read it as ....apologies seem to be straying from the thread..... what a numb nuts...maybe it is I who is tooo confrontational....I am so sorry for the misunderstanding mattspar...I thought I was having a joke with you and youd gone schizo on me....
take a run and kick my nuts....:rolleyes: sorry

[MattSpar]

No apologies necessary HP. As we've said before, were we sitting face to face in the pub....... As for the punishment you suggest, tempting though it may be, unfortunately it would mean having to get off my commode.

[Jastreb]

If you don't know how to make falconry knot, you shouldn't even think about getting any falconry bird-LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW ALFABETH AND WANT TO GO IN THE HIGH SCHOOL!
Cheers Jastreb

[Tim Laycock]

Spot on Jastreb

[Barbary Boy]

agree with addi, if you cant do this in the dark with your hands behind your back then your not even trying to learn the sport.

[Falconry Equipment International]

what about people who cant tie knots for a genuine reason? they could always use a loop leash...doesnt make them any less of a falconer does it??? any one armed falconers out there???
excuse me but a loop leash still needs to be tied to a ring unless you are talking nick fox idea, but then they are so fiddly!
JMHO

[Tim Laycock]

very true SJ

I could loose the will to live fiddling around with ***** like that!

[Blaze]

Now now theres no need for that lol

[HunterPaul]

you are right andy they shouldnt be labeled ******s but getting a bird without knowing the basics is a little irresponsible to say the least...which is why I always say wait find someone to take you out ...do a course ...etc etc...if you cant tie a falconry knot after all that then all hope is gone....
and your are also right...people shouldnt be afraid to ask even what we feel is the most trivial question...and I am probably up there in the top ten for taking people apart, I apologise... it is sunday after all....lol

[MattSpar]

Calling yourself a falconer without the basic accomplishment of tying a falconer's knot is surely analogous with believing yourself to be a competent driver without being able to reverse, turn right, or park the car. Much as I am against any suppression of freedom of action, perhaps this discussion highlights the (questionable) need for some kind of legal apprentice scheme (and having just re-read my own post, I am saddened that I should ever deem the statement to be necessary).

[Kanati]

Ok...who was it??? WHO ticked the 'WHATS A FALCONRY KNOT' Option ?
Its ok...You haven't done anything wrong... unless you already have a hawk tethered outside! :D

[HunterPaul]

HAD a hawk tethered outside.....

[Kanati]

HAD a hawk tethered outside.....

Yes...it would be HAD :D

although...I have had a female harris undo two falconers knots! (and I tie them pretty tight) thankfully she only flew about 6 metres and waited for me to come out of the house and freak when I realised she wasnt on the perch. Then I went and picked her up, put her back and tied two more knots so tight I could hardly undo them myself! (I think she was laughing at me) :D

[HunterPaul]

after the falconers knot I always tie a follow up knot...but I make it different to the first knot, cos I had a harris who could undo the knot...and would leave the leash neatly spiraled up on the perch when I used to go in to pick her up on a morning....I found tying a different second knot stopped this behaviour and only one knot would manage to be undone...clever ********...

[HunterPaul]

which just goes to show ...a bird can learn to undo the knot but some falconers cant learn to tie it......

[Tr1gger]

I tie 2 diffrent knots as well. Its better to be safe than sry.

[Kanati]

after the falconers knot I always tie a follow up knot...but I make it different to the first knot, cos I had a harris who could undo the knot...and would leave the leash neatly spiraled up on the perch when I used to go in to pick her up on a morning....I found tying a different second knot stopped this behaviour and only one knot would manage to be undone...clever ********...


Cunning...stay one step ahead!

Do you cover the hawks eyes so he cant see you tieing it?

[HunterPaul]

di cover her eyes....your talking silly now mate...I just tell her to shut em..and count to ten....

[Osiris]

I tie a falconers knot, sometimes another after that, then i put a safety in...

Learning to do the falconers knot is soooo simple. True it takes some people longer to learn it, but when they do then they'll say its easy.

People who use the "dog clip" method, then they should be warned that these do break!

People who dont do / know the falconers knot may have their own reasons as some people have posted, but they should learn to do it as its the most secure and has been used for years and years..... Your own methods of knots may be effective, but one day it may not be! And then you may not have a bop anymore teathered down! :roll:

Cheers

Jamie :rolleyes:

[Tr1gger]

Cunning...stay one step ahead!

Do you cover the hawks eyes so he cant see you tieing it?

If he covers her eyes hows he meant to tie the knot?

[Osiris]

Good point Tr1gger - makes no sense!

[Kanati]

If he covers her eyes hows he meant to tie the knot?


well...I would use a hood ! but as HP says...just ask her to shut them...I just didn't think of that! my hawks obviously not quite as well trained as HP's :D