Bad News!

[Falcon]

I've just received this from Jim Chick

DEFRA have informed us this afternoon that although individual falconers can continue to fly their birds, groups and field meetings are now prohibited. This regulation came into force at 12 noon today Friday 28th October 2005. Two or more persons each with their own birds constitute a group.

Jim Chick
Hawkboard Chairman.

[Moses]

sarah how long is this law their for


cheers

[Falcon]

No idea i'm afraid just thought i'd post the email i had from Jim if i hear any more i'll post it!

[GriffMJ]

Is this to do with Bird flu? or is it to do with hunting with hounds?????

[Dave G]

who gives a **** what they say how they going to get on private land without permission to stop us

[Saker-Clive]

It's regarding the Avian Flu...........................

http://www.gwreferrals.co.uk/news.asp scroll down until you see the guides on falconry....................doh!!!!!!!!

[Wightwings]

:x :cry: .........could it be a knee jerk reaction or what??

[RabbitHawker]

I had been worrying about the arrival of bird flu ending hawking, but this seems extreme before it's arrival. All field meets organised by clubs have been banned, but there is the possibility of arranging licenses from DEFRA on an individual basis, I will chase this up with them next week.
Chris

[TiercelR]

-This is an absolute injustice against the UK falconers, what kind of people is capable of this abuse to the falconers? if these people are so moral, why don`t have any feeling about to eat a piece of meat from a common killing of catle? That sound like a double moral from they.
-Falconry is a noble art !! The quarry ever have its noble opportunity for survive!!
-The UK falconers ever have all my confidence!!

[LeighJauncey]

If it wasn't for this forum how would DEFRA expect any of us to know? Write to everyone with a registration document? If it came into force today that is totally ludicrous, not because it is a bit premature (although many would argue this to be the case) but because there is no official line of communication.

[Wightwings]

its not an anti thing Jerkin so take achill pill mate its about the stopping of a disease spreading ...........supposadly;-)

[Falcon]

Here's a thought for you all. If we're not allowed to fly our birds in groups, will fox hunting be stopped, seeing as most now own or take an eagle/owl to the meet???????????

Like i said Jim chick will email me with further information and i will post it here immediately!!!!!!

Keep your chins up peeps!

Falcon

[Wightwings]

If it wasn't for this forum how would DEFRA expect any of us to know? Write to everyone with a registration document? If it came into force today that is totally ludicrous, not because it is a bit premature (although many would argue this to be the case) but because there is no official line of communication.

has there ever been.....there are clubs and organisations but 80% of falconers/Austringers dont bother with them.

what you will find is that the organised meets from the clubs etc will know about it...........as you know the grapevine is the FASTEST communication there is and falconry is relatively tight knit as circles go......:wink:

[LeighJauncey]

Like I said, how can it be a problem? Until an official document/email/phone call comes to me personally I will have no hesitation in going out with half a dozen friends (if I had that many) and their birds.

[Wightwings]

Like I said, how can it be a problem? Until an official document/email/phone call comes to me personally I will have no hesitation in going out with half a dozen friends (if I had that many) and their birds.:supz: :supz: :supz:

[MattSpar]

Unfortunately, he doesnt have that many.

[TiercelR]

-Wightwings:
-Sorry too much !! I err in readed.
But anyway if that is a control against FLU , the UK falconers have all my confidence!
-In my country also are preparatives about FLU.

[LeighJauncey]

Unfortunately, he doesnt have that many.

Thanks ****

[Wightwings]

pmsl........:lol: :lol:

[MattSpar]

Thanks ****

What's the saying... "Takes one to know one"? I know LJ will agree.

[Saker-Clive]

I've just been talking to a local centre owner, and he hasn't been contacted by DEFRA or anyone about the 'ban'.
If the professionals haven't officially been told, and they are usually first to be contacted then i personally wouldn't worry too much about it.

He is going to make a few calls now to try and get some definate info.

Perhaps the term 'field meets' is refferring to national type meets, where peeps from all over the place get together!!!! not just localised meets...........

[Sean]

hold up! i thought birds of prey cant be affected by it?

[Kevin Massey]

just had this posted on another list!!!! self explanetary.........

Dear all,

Unfortunately I am the bringer of sad news.

As of 12.00pm today Friday 28 October 2005, a DEFRA
spokesman has confirmed that ALL falconry field meets
are banned. The press release issued yesterday
confirming the decision to ban birds from markets,
shows and fairs, now includes falconry field meets.

It is however, still legal to continue hawking on an
individual basis.

Please see the DEFRA website ( www.defra.gov.uk ) for
further information.

Regards, John.

John Callaghan
Director
British Falconers' Club


well i rang john and he confirmed that the above statement came via email from defra....
he also mentiond that the bfc meet tomorrow has had to be cancled....

another thing he did say was "he was informed by defra that it is ok to fly more than 1 hawk as long as they have come out of the same mews" and also "monday defra will be announcing plans for applications to be put forward regarding field meets.... they may be granted after a risk assesment has been done"...

this from the accual conversation i had with him about 1/4 hr a go...not a hearsay thing !!!

hope this helps....maybe it will add to the confusion?...but thnks chris for posting it up on the h+f f

kev
http://www.britishfalconersclub.co.uk/nm/publish/news_32.html

[Talib]

hold up! i thought birds of prey cant be affected by it?

Not true!

Several raptors in a zoo in Cambodia were found to be infected with the H5N1 virus. A peregrine falcon found dead in Hong Kong tested positive for H5N1 virus. In recent years, several falcons, both sakers and peregrines, have died and tested positive for avian flu in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. In 2000 a Saker falcon died in Italy three days after being flown normally and was found to have had avian flu, and two Crested Hawk Eagles that were confiscated after being illegally smuggled into Belgium from Thailand in 2004 for a Belgian falconer were found to have H5N1 type avian flu.

Talib

[Sean]

**** :o didnt know that, got me worried now :(

here guys, just found out that this weekend is the start of the fox hutning season. could this possible be an excuse to stop the hunts, and we have suffered for it?

[Wightwings]

**** :o didnt know that, got me worried now :(

here guys, just found out that this weekend is the start of the fox hutning season. could this possible be an excuse to stop the hunts, and we have suffered for it?

no sean.......how can dogs chasing foxes with horses be a bird flu problem...........its not foot and mouth mate

[Wightwings]

but thnks chris for posting it up on the h+f f


thats ok Kev im on three lists including this one its info from all of them.......

[Croft]

hi all
i no im not flying birds at the min but i still like to go out with my freinds and watch theres flying.some of the best days of my life has bin on the moors and fells with my mates this is pure madness what is britian becomeing whats going to happen to clubs and syndicates.this is heart breaking but i wont stop. all the best paul.

[Moet]

no sean.......how can dogs chasing foxes with horses be a bird flu problem...........its not foot and mouth mate

think he means that now that the redcoats are using eagles for hunting, ;-)

[Wightwings]

think he means that now that the redcoats are using eagles for hunting, ;-)

AND!!!???? they are banning field meets dog meets are already banned by legislation.............nice conspiracy theory but wrong on this one sean......;) :goodman:

[Sean]

i do lol 8-)

[Sean]

WW, i mean that maybe this was brought out because of hunts intending to use BOP this season? to stop the hunts basicly, but its affecting us to.

[Wightwings]

no sean its not.....:) its to do with bird flu full stop....

[Achilles]

Like I said, how can it be a problem? Until an official document/email/phone call comes to me personally I will have no hesitation in going out with half a dozen friends (if I had that many) and their birds.
Wait and see. The law will say that ignorance is no excuse. The last thing anyone wants is to have their BOPs seized and necked. A defiance of any ban would do more harm for falconry than the foxhunts have done to date, especially as the fear is that bird flu might mutate and then affect people. Lets wait and see exactly what Defra have in mind. There already appears to be some compromise since the original post on this thread.

[Freddie1]

Dear Mr DEFRA told me porky pies yesterday, still no changes there then. Has anyone ever found a government that actually tell the truth!!! SO GUYS , WHAT DO I DO - PICK 'EM UP OR LEAVE THERE??? maybe you could give me your opinion! (Laugh of it is, started building the mews last nightwould have been ready by the end of this week)

STEVE

:( :confused: :(

[RabbitHawker]

I will contact DEFRA on Monday about the licensing system, and possible compensation for cancelled meets, and post the reply I get.
Chris

[Sean]

ww, i know its for bird flu, but mayeb thats just what the government r saying, its an excuse. they havent stoped wildfowling? that would be a higher risk for sure.

[BFC 007]

Dear Mr DEFRA told me porky pies yesterday, still no changes there then. Has anyone ever found a government that actually tell the truth!!! SO GUYS , WHAT DO I DO - PICK 'EM UP OR LEAVE THERE??? maybe you could give me your opinion! (Laugh of it is, started building the mews last nightwould have been ready by the end of this week)

STEVE

:( :confused: :(
go get em steve :D

[Wightwings]

go get em mate........

[JFSeaman]

go get em.

Suns out, hope you have saw in hand! :)

[Addi]

exactly what i was thinking!

[GM090158]

Well p****d off now, just picking up my FHH today, I know it is only field meets at the moment but being a cynic it is only a matter of time before this knee jerk reaction hits us all!

[Osiris]

I will contact DEFRA on Monday about the licensing system, and possible compensation for cancelled meets, and post the reply I get.
Chris

My friends Center had the ITV Border News out yesterday.
They told her that they spoke to some officials (can't remember which ones) and they said Falconry Business' etc. will not be liable for compensation. However, myself and my friend are not stopping their. She went to the local MSP and he has put ALL concerns including compensation towards the government.
Why shouldn't business' etc... get compensation like those farms got via the foot & mouth...???? They weren't the ones that started foot & mouth and we aren't the ones that started the Avian Flu.
We are (centeres etc.) are missing out on flying the birds for demos, hunting days, apprentice courses etc.... becuase of this legislation etc. so why aren't we entitled to compensation???!!!

Jamie

[LeighJauncey]

I've just searched all the latest announcements on the DEFRA website and there's no mention anywhere of falconry meets - just bird shows and fairs - so where's the official statement and who's going to enforce it anyway?

[Wightwings]

just spoken to my club chairman and if you look at the BFC and hawk board web sites you will see they have been contacted direct by DEFRA.

I understand a further statemnt will follow Monday?

Regarding enforcement it will be difficult to do with the group of friends that meet up but if like my club it is affiliated to the BFC and HB you will find they ae obliged to comply

[Kevin Massey]

thats ok Kev im on three lists including this one its info from all of them.......

the only reason i made this referance bud...was that it didnt look i was trying to take credit for the work that you and falcon had done.....

on matters like this its fair to say there are no bounderies
and anyone and i mean any one with privi to information on these matters should share with everyone no matter what forums they use

cheers again chris

kev

[Freddie1]

Thanks for that lads I needed a pick me up it's just a bit of a shock when you have put so much hard work in.
Thanks again you all.
Photo attached!!!!!!

[Wightwings]

looking to DB's there Steve:supz: :)

[Freddie1]

What are DBs?!?!
:yawinkle:

[Musket]

THE DOG'S BA**'S The Business

[Legion]

just spoke to sum 1 at KEILDER bop centre and they have said its still business as normal there ....................

[Legion]

wife has just come back from shopping (again) and said they have a bop display on at royal quays shopping centre.......

[Afshimo]

does this mean we cant do falconry displays? Local centre is right next to a lake with wild geese who will be back this spring. kinda worried!

[Darren]

was out today with the Harris at some woods & a large pond at the back that was full of canadian geese in the pond & on the fields in the stuble feeding. Kept the Hawk well clear of them.

I just hope DEFRA dont go overboard like they did with the cattle over foot & mouth by killing all the cattle.

[Legion]

does this mean we cant do falconry displays? Local centre is right next to a lake with wild geese who will be back this spring. kinda worried

bop centre at keilder & bop display at my local shopping centre are still ok......

[Kevin Massey]

well if you ring bernard mathews and sunvally poultry they will tell you buisness as usual...dont pannic....

but then this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,16518,1600817,00.html


i aint worried about paranoia amongst falconers etc....what worries me is paranoia amongst the general public and even more with this labour government...

so if u wanna beleive nothing is wrong buisness as usual so be it

[Ninja-Jon]

I collect the offal feather, heads & feet and the blood from a very big Company that supply the like's of Tesco's and so on and there still killing hundred thousand chickens every day Mon-Fri. I have seen no decrease in the killing of the birds so the demand is still there for the likes of the public. Will let you know what i get told regards the culling of the chickens if it comes to this....

[Legion]

well if you ring bernard mathews and sunvally poultry they will tell you buisness as usual...dont pannic....

but then this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,16518,1600817,00.html


i aint worried about paranoia amongst falconers etc....what worries me is paranoia amongst the general public and even more with this labour government...

so if u wanna beleive nothing is wrong buisness as usual so be it


my wife said there were about 12 bop on display and i BELIEVE HER...
i read the link and seen no mention of bop displays being stopped.
i was only trying to tell people it does not seem to be effecting bop centres or displays at the moment and i don't actually think it will till there are more confirmed cases and it seems to be spreading.
i don't think anyone should stop doing what they normally do until they are specifically told to do so.

lets face it until there is NEW NEWS avian flu is going to be all over the papers and the media have an obligation to hype every story up to make it more exciting to read.. they don't care if its confusing people.
at the end of the day if it ain't been on sky news it cant be true...lol

I'm sure if some 1 hears or reads that bop centres are closing there doors they will post it.

[Jarreth]

It is notoriously diffilcult to reach people people in falconry, that is the good thing about this kind of web site.

Everyone please heed Saker-Sucker.

Read Great Western Referral web site and take their advice. DEFRA listens to them and so should we. They are vets, the best vets in the world! They do not want to spoil your fun, they want to keep YOUR bird alive. And the rest of us are relying on everyone else to not say Is it a knee jerk reaction, but act in a responsible manner. Bird flu is a mutating disease infecting things that fly, therefore once we have it, getting rid of it will be extremely difficult, if we can at all. Have you considered trying to cull everything that flies? It has the ability to infect and mutate in the next avian. Please for all our birds sakes act with selflessness. To act against advice just because THEY can't go on to private land to stop you is nothing short of idiotic! It will be YOU that maximises the risk of this illness spreading when what we obviously need to do it minimize it. And we all will pay in the long run. What would a few weeks without being able to fly your bird be, against months possibly years, and us all having to suffer our birds being culled. If you think flouting the advice is worth it, then shame on you! I am sorry to go on, but some attitudes really worry me. You have a couple of weeks or so before the majority of the migrating birds arrive to make a decision on how you are going to respond to this situation. Shutting the door after the horse has bolted never worked before. Please do not choose the way of ignorance.

[RabbitHawker]

I can't see it being a few weeks without field meets, it will be at least the reast of this season, or even longer, this is not going to be cancelled quickly. The only hope for field meets is that we may be able to hold them under license, we will find out more on Monday.
Once we have bird flu here (it is inevitable) I can see us being banned from all falconry, as moving the birds presents a risk.
Chris

[Jarreth]

I think that will probably be the case. Bird Flu will come, and measures will be put in place for the good of the countryside and to protect everyones birds. However long they are in place, I am hoping everyone will be as responsible as Harris Hawker checks advice and follows guidelines

[RabbitHawker]

I have just contacted DEFRA they are looking at licensing field meets, I am currently waiting for them to get back to me with details, as soo as I haer from them I will post their reply to let you know the details of how easy/realistic it will be to apply. If bird flu arives here it is likely that no licenses will be issued at all until the threat has passed.

[DeathFromAbove]

personally i don't think many people are going to listen to the ban on field meets until there is a reported case. spoken to quite a few falconers and the impression i got was until each hears directly or there's a case in or close to their region then it's business as usual. i don't see the problem flying a cast of harris' that usually fly and hunt together at the moment until more info is given. i also heard somewhere in the pipeline that if a case is reported in an area in anyones bird, be it parrot, pigeon or BOP then there's the possibility of a culling area within so many miles of the case regardless of if there's been exposure or not...may be wrong, could be just a rumour, but if it is true then there'll be many a kick off about it i'm sure, i won't let anyone kill my bird unless it's proven she has it.

[RabbitHawker]

We should abide by the regulations, we don't need any excuses for a full falconry ban, which could result from irresponsible falconers ignoring the current restrictions. I've just got off the 'phone from my local Animal Health Officer at DEFRA, and he's not sure if we will be issued licenses or not, so I'm putting a test one through. Once I get a reply I will post it. If anybody wants to apply the application form is on the DEFRA page under avian flu.
Chris

[DeathFromAbove]

don't get me wrong, i'm not the irresposible type and certainly wouldn't want a ban either. just think their overreacting a touch at the moment. and as a member of the BFC i'm sure my region will apply for licences and abide by regulations but there are alot of falconers out there not in clubs and on private meets.

[GM090158]

We should abide by the regulations, we don't need any excuses for a full falconry ban, which could result from irresponsible falconers ignoring the current restrictions. I've just got off the 'phone from my local Animal Health Officer at DEFRA, and he's not sure if we will be issued licenses or not, so I'm putting a test one through. Once I get a reply I will post it. If anybody wants to apply the application form is on the DEFRA page under avian flu.
Chris


Got to agree with you Chris, we should not give anyone any ammunition to use against Falconry, there would be many that would jump on the band wagon if given the opportunity.

GM

[Falcon]

Ok all spoke with Jim Chick tonight on the phone, no news at the moment just continue to fly your own birds on your own, don't give them any ammo to ban it all together. If you want up to date genuine information he's assured me that anything put on the hawkboard website is valid and straight.

Falcon

[Kevin Massey]

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/shows/qanda.htm#q1

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/shows/flowchart.pdf

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/shows/application.pdf

kev

[Kevin Massey]

We should abide by the regulations, we don't need any excuses for a full falconry ban, which could result from irresponsible falconers ignoring the current restrictions. Chris


spot on !!!!!!!!

kev

[Wightwings]

spot on !!!!!!!!

kev

completely AGREE........but i am still a litle concerned that falconry has not been specifically mentioned as a gathering unlike budgie bloody shows.........I would also have to wonder who will control and "vet" meets organised outside BFC or HB affiliated clubs that in fact have no need to comply??

[Pitbull]

this is because the birds mentioned by defra are still being shipped in, in there masses from being caught from the wild, birds of prey are rung not many of the defa mentioned birds are,
remember there was avian bird flu in britain i think in 1998 and eradicated with no bans or license

[RabbitHawker]

I've filled in an application for a license, and will post it today, the Animal Health Officer said that will be the only way to find the answer.
Chris

[RabbitHawker]

The only slight worry on the form is that only British birds can have license applications. This appears to be poor wording surely it should either say native or captive bred, both can be British?.
Chris

[Freddie1]

hope this help some one!
Steve
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/pictures/avianinfluenza.htm

[Kevin Massey]

http://www.britishfalconersclub.co.uk/nm/publish/news_39.html

[RabbitHawker]

I spoke to a DEFRA vet yesterday and this is the situation.
There are license application forms now on the DEFRA site.
All meetings with birds from more than 1 premises need a license.
Only birds from one opremises can be flown at one time, the others must be kept in the vehicles.
Breaches of these regulations will be taken seriously, with fines of up to £5000 and prison terms of up to 6 months.
We must act responsibly to prevent criticism, bird flu will arrive here, and we don't want to be the ones to spread it.
Chris

[Wightwings]

fines or imprisonment must mean its a legislative requirement. Anyone know what the name of the new legislation is ??

[Wightwings]

cheers Andy, interested to see were the connection to disease control and licencing come togethor within the legislation and the wording. My thoughts being is it a specific ammendment that would br repelled once the danger has subsided or is it likely to become the norm?????????? like a TV licence or fishing licence??:roll:

[Kevin Massey]

pc hay knows more...but there is sposed to be something sent out by defra...that excludes b-o-p from the meetings ban.....

kev

[Saker-Clive]

Just got in from our club meet; the chairman who is a centre owner has stated that DEFRA have not mentioned anything about BOP in any of there listings and as far as this goes, it's business as usual.:supz:

As far as feild meets go, it is only the Hawk board and the BFC that have banned large, or national feild meets for precautionary measures. We have just got to use our discretion and be vigilant thats all.

[OutFlying]

crack on.....................................

[Hodgesargh]

Just got in from our club meet; the chairman who is a centre owner has stated that DEFRA have not mentioned anything about BOP in any of there listings and as far as this goes, it's business as usual.:supz:

As far as feild meets go, it is only the Hawk board and the BFC that have banned large, or national feild meets for precautionary measures. We have just got to use our discretion and be vigilant thats all.

Not so!

Look at http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/shows/qanda.htm particularly the falconry bits.

I've spoken to a DEFRA person today and all meetings - even just two friends getting together to fly their birds - can only be done legally with a license. The problem is that you'd have to apply for a separate license for each meeting with each friend.

In other words, it looks as if formal BFC field meets etc which are organised in advance will probably be able to get a license but a quick day out with a mate will become a thing of the past.

The only light that I can see is that, having also spoken to one of the welfare people who issue the licenses, it seems that the "policy people" are looking at the possibility of issuing "open" licenses to cover this sort of eventuality.

[Achilles]

Whatever the outcome rest assured that any legislation is written by barristers, for barristers to make money.

[OutFlying]

Have Defra contacted any hawk owners personnally to inform them of this ban - answer no. I'm registered as the owner of 2 hawks and haven't heard from them. Hundreds of harris hawkers aren't registered with defra and aren't in clubs - how do they know a ban is in affect ?

[Harrisii]

I spoke to a DEFRA vet yesterday and this is the situation.
There are license application forms now on the DEFRA site.
All meetings with birds from more than 1 premises need a license.
Only birds from one opremises can be flown at one time, the others must be kept in the vehicles.
Breaches of these regulations will be taken seriously, with fines of up to £5000 and prison terms of up to 6 months.
We must act responsibly to prevent criticism, bird flu will arrive here, and we don't want to be the ones to spread it.
Chris

what is this supposed to achieve?? does a licence stop the birds from catching or spreading it? if a bird takes some wildfowl which has it, and is then placed in a box in the same vehicle as other birds, will it not pass?

these measures are full of ****. a licenceing system will achieve nothing. people will still go out in groups without one. and those which do have one cannot garantee that any BOP will not catch a wild bird which is infected.

bird flu will come here, definately. come spring when migrants return north they will bring with them bird flu. thats a cert'.
thankfully most birds will be put down to moult and not be flown.

refraining from flying 2 or 3 hawks together because of a ban will do absolutely nothing to prevent it and stop a spread. what a load of balls.

£5000 and 6 months. ive heard people getting off with murder with less.
this country is ****ed up.

[RabbitHawker]

It's better to act responsibly rather than give people an excuse for a total ban which is likely when flu arrives. We need to show good professional standards and responsibility, rather than risk being the people who spread flu, think of the publicity that would give us and the ammo for the antis.
Bird flu has a high economic risk for the poultry industry that is why the fines are high for the idiots ignoring the regulations.

[MattSpar]

It's better to act responsibly rather than give people an excuse for a total ban which is likely when flu arrives. We need to show good professional standards and responsibility, rather than risk being the people who spread flu, think of the publicity that would give us and the ammo for the antis.
Bird flu has a high economic risk for the poultry industry that is why the fines are high for the idiots ignoring the regulations.

Hear hear!

[Achilles]

Well said RabbitHawker.

[Harrisii]

It's better to act responsibly rather than give people an excuse for a total ban which is likely when flu arrives. We need to show good professional standards and responsibility, rather than risk being the people who spread flu, think of the publicity that would give us and the ammo for the antis.
Bird flu has a high economic risk for the poultry industry that is why the fines are high for the idiots ignoring the regulations.

i agree RH but the licencing system will achieve nothing. people will still go out in couples or groups.
you are right that we should act responsible and give the anti's nothing but this licencing system will do nothing to stop any spread. the bird flu is comming whether we like it or not but it wont be spread by falconers out in groups. it will be spread by incomming migrants, by which time this hawking season will be close to finished.
also, no one knows about this as yet. if this is a serious attempt at clamping down and preventing a spread then why aint it given more coverage.

[MickeyDredd]

It's better to act responsibly rather than give people an excuse for a total ban which is likely when flu arrives.

I do understand what you are saying but a future total ban will happen whether we apply for a licence to fly our hawks now or not.

Bird flu has a high economic risk for the poultry industry that is why the fines are high for the idiots ignoring the regulations.

I do not see how flying hawks in open countryside will be any greater of a threat to the poultry industry (i.e. mass-produced poultry in large sheds) than migratory wildfowl.

[Pitbull]

i gather their main aim at the moment is the speading of the flu in the animal population, as i would have thought they would have banned gatherings of shooters for the migrating ducks and geese etc
or have they

[Big JoeJoe]

I'm sick as a pig we had a field meet on Sunday, got the bad news this morning. I usually go out hawking with two or three mates who all fly hawks. I ain't changing my routine no way no matter what chaps.

ACCHOOOOOOOOOO
Bless You
Thank you
Big Joe

[Saker-Clive]

i gather their main aim at the moment is the speading of the flu in the animal population, as i would have thought they would have banned gatherings of shooters for the migrating ducks and geese etc
or have they

Far from it, they are asking for 'x' amount of shot birds to be handed over for testing.
I was told yesterday that the incubation is about 24-36 hours; so most birds that have the AI that leave there home lands, will usually die on route. The stupid thing at the moment is , the 3000 geese that have already got to the Isle of Skye???? are on RSPB land and they have said that no one can go on there to cull them..................................:confused:

[Hodgesargh]

Go to

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/shows/qanda.htm

and look at Q23.

Looks like an outbreak of common sense?

[StormRider]

Not so!

Look at http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/shows/qanda.htm particularly the falconry bits.

I've spoken to a DEFRA person today and all meetings - even just two friends getting together to fly their birds - can only be done legally with a license. The problem is that you'd have to apply for a separate license for each meeting with each friend.

In other words, it looks as if formal BFC field meets etc which are organised in advance will probably be able to get a license but a quick day out with a mate will become a thing of the past.

The only light that I can see is that, having also spoken to one of the welfare people who issue the licenses, it seems that the "policy people" are looking at the possibility of issuing "open" licenses to cover this sort of eventuality.

I have also just spoken to DEFRA (my case officer) who confirms the above. He also states that registration of certain species is goin to change again. Apparently the Government are looking at the deregistration of all hybrid species. They only want to concentrate on pure bred endangered indigeonous sppecies that are captive bred. This is so they can keep a better track on those who may decide to take from the wild. They say their main intention is to alleviate overburdening redtape for breeders and keepers of such birds.

[Kentish Falconry]

I have also just spoken to DEFRA (my case officer) who confirms the above. He also states that registration of certain species is goin to change again. Apparently the Government are looking at the deregistration of all hybrid species. They only want to concentrate on pure bred endangered indigeonous sppecies that are captive bred. This is so they can keep a better track on those who may decide to take from the wild. They say their main intention is to alleviate overburdening redtape for breeders and keepers of such birds.

This has been going on for some time and is just one of the issues under discussion between DEFRA, HB and the Federation.
JNCC RSPB and BirdLife International are also makeing their point of view known.
We are pushing for deregistration of all Hybrids, as they are not found in the wild and therefore need no protection, but are designer birds developed to meet certain standards thus takeing away the pressure on wild poulations. We still do not know if this has been sucessfull or not and I personally find it irresponsible of a DEFRA case officer handing out info like this when it has not had a final decission yet. We will know more, I hope after tomorrows meeting.
There is also a chance that some BOP will will be removed from the Registration/monitored list and other species put on we will have to wait and see.
Nick Fox put something together regarding a 2 tier system for Peregrines that would also take off a lot of pressure and cut DEFRA costs but I beleive that this has been kicked into touch, unfortunatley Nick will not be back in the UK for tomorrows meeting but Nick Kester will attend for the HB probably with JIM Chick and a couple of others.
Will advise further after the meeting.

[StormRider]

How is it irresponsible for a DEFRA official I know, to give me none sensitive information about something that is being looked into as a possibility, and its not irresponsible for you (Terry) to obtain the same information from a different individual within the same organisation???????
I didnt realise that we had a ranking hierarchy line of communication with regards to falconry matters. I and others have as much right to obtain or seek information about a tradition that we love.
I am sure that you must agree!

[Kevin Massey]

If it wasn't for this forum how would DEFRA expect any of us to know?


you could always look at there website...after all thats what its there for

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/shows/qanda.htm

[StormRider]

Another thing.
Why shouldnt all captive birds of prey be registered? There isnt any reasonable argument that can justify not registering all birds. Anyone who is into falconry for the correct reasons should have no hesitation in wishing to pay a fee to register their bird. As far as I am concerned all hybrids should definately be registered for the purposes of keeping records of exactly what has escaped back into the wild. There must be hundreds each year escape and therefore potentially creating some super species. Granted, there is some natural hybridisation already taking place in the wild: but thats exactly what it is - NATURES WAY.
The only people that non registration protects, are those who knock out hundreds of these birds every year to local and foreign markets for stupid amounts of money. It allows them to breed as much as they want without the fear of constraints from outside their own circles.