PDA

View Full Version : Prevent Screaming..........




Ninja-Jon
12-11-2005, 08:58 PM
Just thought i would post this may be some beneficial, as sometimes i read on the forum folks having problems with vocal (Screaming) Harris Hawks. I may employ this method when i get my Male Harris next year. Comments from the more experienced Falconers would be appreciated



Here are five rules to follow when training the newly aquired Harris which will prevent it from becoming a screamer.

Do not feed the bird on the fist!
Do not call the bird to the fist!
Take the bird to the food!
The bird must always move away from you to the food!
Do not cut the weight; feed ad lib
Remember the goal of the falconry is to take wild game. For example, a Harris' cannot catch a rabbit if it is flying to the fist. Therefore, there is no reason to train a Harris' to fly to the fist until after it is catching wild game.

You have two main goals to train a Harris'. First, is to fly the bird away from you to its food. Of course you must be able to recover your bird after it has caught it game. The second goal is train the bird to allow you to walk up to it and pick it up after its caught game.

You should aquire you Harris from the breeder after it is 12 to 14 weeks old and parent raised. Older is also fine. Harris need to socialize with their ownkind. You jess the bird and man it. Manning (which is different than training) a harris is geting it used to Man and all man things, such as cars, giant hood, scales, lawn mowers, and dogs. This task can easily be accompanied by moving the bow pearch and bird closer and closer to human activity; insted of a secluded weathering yard. By fall you should be able to mow the lawn around the bird while it sits on it's perch. Of course you will be also weighing the bird and hooding or placing in a giant hood before each feeding.

Feeding is the most important step. Your bird will be fed ad lib-- all it wants at one feeding each day. It is alright to skip a day each week. You place the food by the bow perch so it can be reached by the bird after it is tied. You then weigh and hood the bird and then take it to the bow perch and tie the bird. Walk away. remember, the food is on the opposite side of the perch so the bird goes away from you to the food, these steps accomplish goal one. Now each day you fine tune this goal. At first, don't worry about getting a weight. In the begining it is normal for the bird to not stand on the scale and you will not be able to get a weight. Do not dwell , next work on hooding the bird. Put the hood on the bird and taking it off. Or if you use a giant hood, put the bird in, close the door, then immediatly open door and take bird to the food and walk away. Each day increase your time spent at the scale and with the hood.

Once the bird is at the perch, walk away only as far as necessary for the bird to start eating. Each day walk closer to the bird and stand and watch it eat its daily ad lib ration. If at any time the bird hesitates or stops eating, move away. Others can feed the bird for you. By early fall you should be able to walk up to the bird, around the bird, and touch it with your foot etc., and the bird should continue eating. By this time the bird should also be able to stand on the scale for an accurate weight, and be hooded for hours. A whistle can be sounded each time the bird takes a bite.

Goal two is easy, just before the bird finishes its daily ration, pick it up and let it finish the last few bites on the fist. The bird is now basically ready to go hunting. The bird looks away and moves away from you for food and if you put food on the ground the bird will allow you to pick it up to finish its meal. All thats needed are some safty steps.

feed the bird on the lure.
feed the bird under a spot light (or car headlights)
food can be thrown to the tied bird but remember the bird goes away from you to the food and you walk to the bird and pick it up to finish its ration.
Finally, once the nights are cool and the brush is down so the bird has a reasonable chance of catching game, you can cut the weight. Weight reduction is most easily accomplished by cutting the daily rations in half. you will notice that up till now the bird may actually act wild until feeding time. As you approach the correct hunting wieght the bird will calm down whenever it sees you. It may actually bate toward you. But finding the hunting weight is another story. Hunting weight is different from flying weight because Harris' respond at all weights.




Coedhirion
12-11-2005, 10:35 PM
Mmmmmm... I can see an awful lot of 'what ifs?' in that lot. Some makes sense, some not a lot. Ok I have guessed a weight for my bird as scales and feeding to a weight aren't mentioned. Feed ad lib then halve it ??? That would make my Male Harris who hunts at his flying weight of 1lb 10.1/8oz, come out at about 1lb 2.1/4oz, he would be screaming footing and to week to catch much. He sure woudn't stop his favourite quarry. Cock pheasants.
So... bird misses quarry and you have to get it back in time for that second bunny about to be bolted from the rabbit hole!!.....how????

Barbary Boy
12-11-2005, 10:45 PM
what a load of bollicks, get the right bird, reared right, train in the normal way and you should have no problems. all birds can become screamers especially the buzzard types as they are naturally vocal anyway.

Tim Laycock
12-11-2005, 10:50 PM
It sonds fine in a fairy tale world of makebelieve but in reality it would be better to train the hawk conventionaly and get it taking game as quickly as possible.

Perhaps the piece would be more fittingly entitled..........
"How to keep a Harris quiet for those with little or no game to fly at and precious little fieldcraft to find it with"

Adam Barrett
12-11-2005, 10:56 PM
i agree with BB here it all sounds ok in theroy but i cant see it ever practically working?!

HawkNorth
12-11-2005, 11:09 PM
ok some very mild coments if it was an occupation the sack would be putting it mildly and probably a large fine

Flying High
12-11-2005, 11:13 PM
I have got to agree with Barbary Boy. What a lot of Sh##. i Always get my Harris about 9 or 12 week old (if i can it is about 9 week old) and i have alway come away with lovely Harris.
They way i try my birds (every way is different) is in your face. I strongly believe you should do everything to you bird and should introduce your bird to very thing when it is young. I what i mean by this is, When the bird is young i touch it, stroke it and prod it and some times i even **** it of. the only reason i do this is because if some one else ****es my bird of it will not mind. and so far in falconer i have never lost a bird and anyone can fly my birds (if some one wants to put that to a challenge they are more than welcome) and everyone can Handel, touch and **** them off and they will not bother.

Tim Laycock
12-11-2005, 11:13 PM
Very good :goodman:

Barbary Boy
12-11-2005, 11:15 PM
people out there!! read some books! use your field craft, listen. some birds of prey are vocal all year round in the wild so why should they be silent when in captivity?? the buzzard types in particular,lots of falconers are paranoid about this and demand the birds are left with the parents for at least 16 weeks? still no guarantee they wont shout,

Flying High
12-11-2005, 11:25 PM
i would normally agree with Barbary Boy (because i KNOW you know everything BUT the woman) but i have flown lots of buzzards and they have be so quiet. i have even flown buzzard that are hand reared and they have be quiet

Barbary Boy
12-11-2005, 11:35 PM
Yes but your "flying high" the rest of us are mere mortals?

Coedhirion
12-11-2005, 11:47 PM
i would normally agree with Barbary Boy (because i KNOW you know everything BUT the woman) but i have flown lots of buzzards and they have be so quiet. i have even flown buzzard that are hand reared and they have be quiet
Well I wish some one would tell my local wild buzzards and red kites that...
The young all beg for food and they and the parents all shout contact calls to each other...Oh and so do the flippin Tawny and Barn Owls at night too.
So if some of you have totally silent at all times, Harris you are either very lucky, very deaf or the birds are so well fed they spend their days asleep. Or may be if you hunt at dawn to dusk, then feed up, they may not get the time to chat.
A Harris likes to chat, chirp etc and if people dont like it ...stick to a budgy or a canary.... Sorry may be that's a bit rude, but I get a bit fed up with all the posts about screaming Harris. Some do, some don't and some are turned in to screamers. If you are lucky they are quieter in the second year and as the voice has 'broken' it isn't so bad....and nothing like as bad as a badly imprinted Gos. That sounds like a high pitched seagull and makes you run for the cotton wool !!!

Barbary Boy
12-11-2005, 11:51 PM
bravo! coidheidrion "or whatever your name is"

Kanati
13-11-2005, 12:30 AM
Ninja-Jon...do all that you have said and your hawk might still get vocal! Do everything the oposite to what you ahve said and the bird might never make a sound. Each bird is different. I am training two harris now...both in the same way, both get the same input from me and see the same little bit of wales that I'm in..One shouts (a bit) - the other is silent. How do you explain that one?

Kanati
13-11-2005, 12:38 AM
also Ninja not sure why you might have trouble getting an initial weight? put the hood on the untrained bird and let it stand on the scales...works for me. The box too..I find the harris hawk more then happy to go in and stay in. by day 3 or 4...using my methods, they harris actually seems to like it in there

Ninja-Jon
13-11-2005, 03:02 AM
Well it's obvious then its not beneficial to anyone Well in some of your comments a load of ******.... These are not my words by the way on how to prevent a Harris from Screaming they are this fellas comments http://www.falconrybirds.com/Pages/index.shtml so he is talking the ****** not me asked for comments on the post by experienced falconers and this is the reply you get. I have not got a BOP come on here for advice like most Newbies

DorsetAde
13-11-2005, 07:15 AM
I think you have to take on board what everybody says, read the books, visit the BOP centres and then make your own decision. It helps to have a single mentor who's methods could be followed or modified as best suits. Falconry is a very opinionated art and the skill is extracting the necessary info from all sources to suit your needs. I picked my P/R MRT late at 22wks and he's not made a sound, sits in his mews on his own most of the time ( like a buzzard would in the wild) and is usually happy to see me. His training is going well and hopefully he'll be flying free in a couple of weeks.

Hope you find what you're looking for, this forum is excellent for advice but you do have to accept you're getting an opinion, often well founded but an opinion all the same. The guys (and girls) on here have never steered me wrong.

Best of luck

Ade

Dave G
13-11-2005, 09:38 AM
yes i agree with what has been said remember if the harris is a vocal bird the way its trained is not going to shut it up,the bird called back to the fist for food is a good thing not bad as you want a good responce in the field when your bird is out of sight and a whistle calls your bird straight back for a reward,stepping off quarry is part of the early bonding and training so your bird does not feel robbed on a kill when swapped for a chick or reward ,the last issue think the best age to collect a bird is 18 to 20 weeks

Kanati
13-11-2005, 09:43 AM
Well it's obvious then its not beneficial to anyone Well in some of your comments a load of ******.... These are not my words by the way on how to prevent a Harris from Screaming they are this fellas comments http://www.falconrybirds.com/Pages/index.shtml so he is talking the ****** not me asked for comments on the post by experienced falconers and this is the reply you get. I have not got a BOP come on here for advice like most Newbies

I'm not having a go at you mate...but...

If those words were not your own...then you have no experience or examples to back them up... If they were your own experiences, then you could argue your case...but as it is...the messenger has been shot.

like you said you came here for advice...why would you feel the need to try and give advice on a very complex subject? you were asking to be ridiculed.

Kanati
13-11-2005, 09:47 AM
yes i agree with what has been said remember if the harris is a vocal bird the way its trained is not going to shut it up,the bird called back to the fist for food is a good thing not bad as you want a good responce in the field when your bird is out of sight and a whistle calls your bird straight back for a reward,stepping off quarry is part of the early bonding and training so your bird does not feel robbed on a kill when swapped for a chick or reward ,the last issue think the best age to collect a bird is 18 to 20 weeks


I am training two harris now...but not to the glove. they fly to the lure and never feed on the fist. Its actually working out very well, and I think its a better method they the traditional one. its suprised me that its better then glove training...but its really good.

Why do you think think the best time to pick up collect your hawk is as late as 18 weeks? :?:

HunterPaul
13-11-2005, 10:12 AM
and the moral of the story is dont give out **** advice if you havent a scooby doo what on earth you are talking about.... the other newbies on here see this advice given in such a way assume it is the way to go...then while you are laid at home snug in your bed no bird in no mews ...some poor get is sitting under a tree hoping his bird will be their in the morning....
as co thingy mu bob and babs and most of the other miserable sods have stated ...they are vocal birds... some will be more than others ..its a fact of life and there is no guaranteed way to stop this...each bird is different... when aquiring one of these creatures assume it will be very vocal...then if it isnt whos a happy boy.... dont get into falconry if you want it all to be plane sailing...you will be bitterly disappointed...

MattSpar
13-11-2005, 11:04 AM
what a load of bollicks, get the right bird, reared right, train in the normal way and you should have no problems. all birds can become screamers especially the buzzard types as they are naturally vocal anyway.

Whilst I would, perhaps, couch my comments in a sligtly more acceptable form, what Barbary Boy says is, in a nutshell, absolutely right. Ninja -Jon's described method is ridiculously long-winded. Much better to employ, dare I say it, more traditional methods, and have the bird flying at quarry within a fortnight.

MTR46
13-11-2005, 11:36 AM
Chin up ninja jon dont take it to heart take the rough comments with the smooth iv had to i stuck to the traditonal method it was fine. too many opinions in this game.

HunterPaul
13-11-2005, 11:40 AM
Whilst I would, perhaps, couch my comments in a sligtly more acceptable form, what Barbary Boy says is, in a nutshell, absolutely right. Ninja -Jon's described method is ridiculously long-winded. Much better to employ, dare I say it, more traditional methods, and have the bird flying at quarry within a fortnight.
dont agree with babs youll be giving her a complex...you know he hates being liked...

Ninja-Jon
13-11-2005, 11:40 AM
1st of all sorry if i have come across in way that i knew wot i was on about im the first to hold my hands up and admitt i don't. Thats why i am here thought the post would be beneficial but like Kanatia said why post something so complexed i knw nothing about (True Point) No doubt it wont be the first bollock i drop neither the last so all your points taken on Board.........

HunterPaul
13-11-2005, 11:41 AM
Chin up ninja jon dont take it to heart take the rough comments with the smooth iv had to i stuck to the traditonal method it was fine. too many opinions in this game.
i hope you meant options and not opinions...cos if you dont want opinions dont post things up or give yours out.....

HunterPaul
13-11-2005, 11:42 AM
1st of all sorry if i have come across in way that i knew wot i was on about im the first to hold my hands up and admitt i don't. Thats why i am here thought the post would be beneficial but like Kanatia said why post something so complexed i knw nothing about (True Point) No doubt it wont be the first bollock i drop neither the last so all your points taken on Board.........
my hat comes off to you ....:lol:

MattSpar
13-11-2005, 11:44 AM
Good to see you don't take offence easily Ninja-Jon. Damn, I must try harder.

Ninja-Jon
13-11-2005, 11:47 AM
lol @ MATT