Harris at pheasants

[Roberto]

Anyone flying sussecefully Harris at pheasants? Last Saturday, for the first time, I have try them with my 03 years old female but they all escaped. She is very good at rabbits and hares whit many, many pieces taken last years, but now I want to put her at feather. To increase confidence on this quarry I´m thinking on realese and let her kill one or too pheasants, eat well on them and try again next week. Could this Parabuteo take them regurally?

regards

[Kanati]

i would say yes...a good male can take them on the first flush...all harris hawks will take them on a re-flush...if your not against such unfair play.:twisted:

[Jarreth]

Yes absolutely, I have had males and females taking cock pheasant and hen. Saw a female knock one out of the sky very spectaularly the other day. In fact it is probably a good thing that you have had a few seasons at rabbits cause sometimes it has been known for a Harris that takes feather almost as soon as fur, to start ignoring rabbits and see pheasants as the soft option, cause they don't fight back the same.

To encourage your bird, feed it on a pheasant another bird has caught first. then try and give it an easy flight, pheasants are quick with a tail wind and Harrises can get a bit despondant quite quickly and stop trying. Then it just gets harder. Also don't take your bird too near a pheasant pen or anywhere where there is a large number of them, your bird will just get confused and not know which one to chase.

Hope this helps

[OutFlying]

A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist (not taken on the rise or from a tree). Early season pheasant maybe but not late winter. They will follow and kill on the put in. If they had the speed to fly one down in level flight no one would bother with the goshawk.

OF.

ps Yes even when the harris is "superfit", it won't have the speed.

[Shaun Byrne]

A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist (not taken on the rise or from a tree). Early season pheasant maybe but not late winter. They will follow and kill on the put in. If they had the speed to fly one down in level flight no one would bother with the goshawk.

OF.

ps Yes even when the harris is "superfit", it won't have the speed.


Got to agree Jim, its always a mugging.

[RabbitHawker]

I fly my cast following on, and they do mug a lot on the ground, but occasionally you get great flights where they take them well in flight. Most HH are not fit enough to do this, and even when fit there is a marked difference in speed between different HH, I know this as one of my males is streets faster than the other and on a good day has chased a partridge over several fields.
Last season I had one excellent flight in some woods where we flushed a cock pheasant, both birds went up uver the woods after it, forcing it down, it was taken on the way down.
If you really want to fly pheasant you need to get you birds really fit, I would suggest high jumping if you are not out 5 days a week, A really fir HH is as good as many weekeng Gos's.
Chris

[Kevin Massey]

i agree jim.... mugging....taking them just as they get up....and also the follow and watch where they put back on.....

kev
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[Kevin Massey]

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[Jarreth]

Hi guys the pheasant that my mates harris knocked out of the air was taken on an interception that the pheasant hadn't expected. She didn't kill it though, it probably had a really bad head ache for a while and it is missing a whole lot of feathers! Very cool flight quite high, she carried on to catch a diffferent one, in cover!

[Harrisii]

harris hawks can and do take pheasants, without a doubt.
sure, all the gos' people will go on about how they cannot take them in level flight and yes they are right, most of the time, but the harris can and will take pheasants time and again. they soon learn that if they follow the pheasants they will put in and it is here that the harris will take its chance.
as the pheasant slows to a halt the harris will seize this opportunity and take it as it drops or as it hits the ground. they will take them from trees as the pheasant is flushed.
again the gos' people will scoff but its still a take and a well deserved one given that the harris knows it is there and is waiting for its opportunity when flushed. here the harris is using height and brains to work out the best way of taking a tricky and cunning bird. thats what harris' do, gos' hawks use their superior speed to fly them down.
hardly a reason to talk down a harris.
the other week my mates male, (the one which was lost recently) soared away out from the hill much to our amusment. no-one was sure where he was going. he continued right out and went into a stoop dropping like a stone and took a female pheasant as it lifted some way off. what a stunning flight.
now tell me a gos that will do that??
both have their different ways and will use different methods to take pheasants. it a personal preferance as to which method (or bird) you prefer not a reason to decry another bird cos it doesnt do what your bird does.
so yes, harris' will take pheasant, but not as good as a gos' if you believe what you read here. pure big ********.

[Shaun Byrne]

harris hawks can and do take pheasants, without a doubt.
sure, all the gos' people will go on about how they cannot take them in level flight and yes they are right, most of the time, but the harris can and will take pheasants time and again. they soon learn that if they follow the pheasants they will put in and it is here that the harris will take its chance.
as the pheasant slows to a halt the harris will seize this opportunity and take it as it drops or as it hits the ground. they will take them from trees as the pheasant is flushed.
again the gos' people will scoff but its still a take and a well deserved one given that the harris knows it is there and is waiting for its opportunity when flushed. here the harris is using height and brains to work out the best way of taking a tricky and cunning bird. thats what harris' do, gos' hawks use their superior speed to fly them down.
hardly a reason to talk down a harris.
the other week my mates male, (the one which was lost recently) soared away out from the hill much to our amusment. no-one was sure where he was going. he continued right out and went into a stoop dropping like a stone and took a female pheasant as it lifted some way off. what a stunning flight.
now tell me a gos that will do that??
both have their different ways and will use different methods to take pheasants. it a personal preferance as to which method (or bird) you prefer not a reason to decry another bird cos it doesnt do what your bird does.
so yes, harris' will take pheasant, but not as good as a gos' if you believe what you read here. pure big ********.

Which post slagged off the HH??

[OutFlying]

I couldn't find one, only ones that stated how the harris hawk can and does take them.

Jim.

[Harrisii]

A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist (not taken on the rise or from a tree). Early season pheasant maybe but not late winter. They will follow and kill on the put in. If they had the speed to fly one down in level flight no one would bother with the goshawk.

OF.

ps Yes even when the harris is "superfit", it won't have the speed.


loads of positive things about the harris here, yet again OF.

[OutFlying]

Anyone flying sussecefully Harris at pheasants? Last Saturday, for the first time, I have try them with my 03 years old female but they all escaped. She is very good at rabbits and hares whit many, many pieces taken last years, but now I want to put her at feather. To increase confidence on this quarry I´m thinking on realese and let her kill one or too pheasants, eat well on them and try again next week. Could this Parabuteo take them regurally?

regards

I thought my reply to this original post was spot on, but it appears you don't - each to their own.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

loads of positive things about the harris here, yet again OF.

Any untruths ????????????????????????

[Harrisii]

Its The Way You Come Accross Of.
In All The Things I Have Read From You Regarding Harris' I Havent Seen Any Poss' Input. Just How They Cant Do What A Gos' Does.
Why Bother. We All Know The Gos' Reigns Supreme, . Nuff Said.

[M & J Raptors]

he would love to fly an HH but he does not have any trees on the moor he hunts,

[OutFlying]

Can't have read all my harris posts then, I do believe they are good hawks and deserve a better reputation than they have due to a lot of idiots buying them. But most of my replies are biased towards the goshawk, as I fly one.

But when people start talking about catching gamebirds with a harris hawk, I like the method to be outlined - so that people know what a harris is capable of and how the style of flight is obtained. If someone tries to fly from the fist they aren't going to succeed and that other methods are needed.

Jim.

[BFC 007]

he would love to fly an HH but he does not have any trees on the moor he hunts,

lol-train it wait on

[OutFlying]

:heart: :supz: :supz: :supz:

he would love to fly an HH but he does not have any trees on the moor he hunts,

[Kanati]

Any untruths ????????????????????????

I will tell you that at the end of the season...this male I am ready to enter seems rediculasly quick already...so by the end of the season I aim to tell you that the male harris will take a pheasent in level flight and give you pics to show it :cool: ...watch this space.

[MattSpar]

In my opinion, it is a mistake to directly compare the merits of harris's and gosses at pheasants as their modus operandi are so different. Of course the harris will take pheasant, but usually by stealth and opportunism rather than by hard flying, since the slowest pheasant is more than a match for the fastest harris' in level flight. They soon learn it's a waste of effort to try outflying them, but they also soon learn that if they tag on behind, the pheasant has to stop, when they can sometimes grab it on the ground (though they are missed more often than not even then, if we're honest about it). Most pheasants are taken by harris's on the ground, often against fences and the like. Mine is extremely good a spotting them from the air, in root crops, and stooping to take them, and partridges on occasion, that way.
The harris's great strength is when it comes to a prolonged rat-hunt, when they seem to know, with practice, just where to position themselves to the best advantage.
Of course, I'm talking here about adult pheasants in mid to late season, not squeakers.

[Harrisii]

Can't have read all my harris posts then, I do believe they are good hawks and deserve a better reputation than they have due to a lot of idiots buying them. But most of my replies are biased towards the goshawk, as I fly one.

But when people start talking about catching gamebirds with a harris hawk, I like the method to be outlined - so that people know what a harris is capable of and how the style of flight is obtained. If someone tries to fly from the fist they aren't going to succeed and that other methods are needed.

Jim.

THAT SOUNDS BETTER OF. IF YOU THOUGHT MORE ABOUT YOUR REPLIES AND OFFERED CONSTRUCTIVE ADVISE AS REGARDS FLYING GAME BIRDS PEOPLE WOULD APPRECIATE IT SO MUCH MORE. YOU SOUND VERY ARROGANT WHEN YOU POST REPLYS STATING THINGS SUCH AS YOU DO.


A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist (not taken on the rise or from a tree). Early season pheasant maybe but not late winter. They will follow and kill on the put in. If they had the speed to fly one down in level flight no one would bother with the goshawk.


I AM SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BENEFIT FROM YOUR EXPERIANCES IF ONLY YOU WOULD BE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE INSTEAD OF DWELLING ON HOW THE GOS' DOES IT. THE ORIGINAL POST ASKED IF HARRIS HAWKS CAN TAKE PHEASANTS, THE ANSWER IS YES!! NOT THAT THEY HAVENT GOT THE SPEED TO FLY DOWN A PHEASANT. YOU COULD HAVE OUTLINED THE METHODS SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT A HARRIS IS CAPABLE OF AND HOW THE STYLE OF FLIGHT IS OBTAINED BUT YOU CHOSE NOT TO.

I GET THE IDEA THAT WHEN YOU SEE HARRIS HAWKS AND GAME BIRDS IN THE SAME SENTANCE, YOU HAVE A WRY SMILE AND A CHANCE TO GLOAT.
I MAY OF COURSE BE WRONG BUT THEN AGAIN MAYBE NOT.

[OutFlying]

No gloating or wry smile. Just the desire to outline how the gamebirds are caught. Not telling half a story but illustrating how it is done.

Sorry if the posts come across as arrogant but I tend to post a direct answer and leave out the niceties.

Jim.

[MattSpar]

Personally, most of my posting is accompanied by a wry smile, but that's just my way....

[OutFlying]

Forgot to add posting in capitals is the equilvalent of shouting - appears rude to some people ;-)

[OutFlying]

I will tell you that at the end of the season...this male I am ready to enter seems rediculasly quick already...so by the end of the season I aim to tell you that the male harris will take a pheasent in level flight and give you pics to show it :cool: ...watch this space.

Good luck,

[Kevin Massey]

Sorry if the posts come across as arrogant but I tend to post a direct answer and leave out the niceties.Jim.

aint that the truth....


however i personaly could'nt see anything negative posted by you slagging the harris off in this thread myself.

kev

[MattSpar]

I will tell you that at the end of the season...this male I am ready to enter seems rediculasly quick already...so by the end of the season I aim to tell you that the male harris will take a pheasent in level flight and give you pics to show it :cool: ...watch this space.


I hope you're successful, but if you are, I really will eat my hat, snake-skin hatband and all.

[Harrisii]

No gloating or wry smile. Just the desire to outline how the gamebirds are caught. Not telling half a story but illustrating how it is done.

Sorry if the posts come across as arrogant but I tend to post a direct answer and leave out the niceties.

Jim.

YEAH I NOTICED.
CAPS LOCK WAS ON, NO SHOUTING HERE, oops sorry

you have failed to outline how gamebirds are caught! just that the harris cannot do it in flight. thats not constructive.
Also, you have not illustrated how its done so that post was misleading.

you could quite easily give advise and help people. you have the benefit of experience which you could pass on. but you dont. thats a shame as a lot of people could benefit from it. but thats your choice.

all i ask is that you be more constructive in your posts not dwell on the negatives. is that so much to ask. i am as passionate about my harris' as you are about your gos' so you will understand why i defend it when i feel people are having a go and taking a pop. i believe you were.

[OutFlying]

Read the two posts above my original posting, and understand the context it was posted in.

Yours Jim.

[Kanati]

Good luck,

the guantlet has been layed down...I like a challenge...:-D Just so we are clear... a male harris flying from the glove, taking a pheasent on the first flush without any noticable hight advantage? is that all the criteria met??? This will give me somthing to aim for this winter...8-)

[OutFlying]

And not on the rise.

[Kanati]

And not on the rise.

ofcourse not...:D

[M & J Raptors]

I know just the pheasants Jim,

never seen a HH come close to overhalling winter Game, if someone has such a bird that can fly Game down from Game crop, give me a shout i will put you a free day on, and buy you a pint.

BC

[MattSpar]

I know just the pheasants Jim,

never seen a HH come close to overhalling winter Game.......BC


The reason for that is simple. They can't.

[OutFlying]

I know just the pheasants Jim,

never seen a HH come close to overhalling winter Game, if someone has such a bird that can fly Game down from Game crop, give me a shout i will put you a free day on, and buy you a pint.

BC

BC,
I bet not many (the majority) goshawks in the country would catch a pheasant on that ground.

Jim.

ps Looking forward to the return visit :supz:

[Tonza]

out flyin have you ever flown a harris or a gos.? NO because you would know that a harris is more than capable of catching pheasants. i have flown harris hawks for 7/8 years now the currant bird i have had for 5 years now and when i seen your negative posts about harris hawks i had a read through my book and to date my bird has caught 176 pheasants not too bad at all my son. :)

[OutFlying]

Tonza,
Please find the post WHERE I stated a harris can't catch a pheasant. Please read posts correctly before making silly comments.

Well done on the pheasant count.

Jim.

[Harrisii]

Read the two posts above my original posting, and understand the context it was posted in.

Yours Jim.

i understand perfectly jim.
go with peace.

[OutFlying]

Thanks :goodman:

[Shaun Byrne]

I have never owned a Gos or even flown one.

I have flown HH for about 15 years and have taken hundreds of gamebirds but I have to say, hand on heart, that I have NEVER had one of my birds take a mature fit pheasant in fair level flight.

Sure its nice to take a cock pheasant home in the bag but I think for true sport and quality of flight from the fist, you need to fly a Gos at them.

Its like standing on a line of guns and shooting 50 runners as opposed to half a dozen towering birds.

Before anyone comes in and starts saying I'm slagging HH remember that its HH I fly! My comments are purely based on HH taking Pheasants in fair flight.

[HarrisHawk.1.]

A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist (not taken on the rise or from a tree). Early season pheasant maybe but not late winter. They will follow and kill on the put in. If they had the speed to fly one down in level flight no one would bother with the goshawk.

OF.

ps Yes even when the harris is "superfit", it won't have the speed.

worth a try though isnt it
OF
may have a few good chases

[Kanati]

I have never owned a Gos or even flown one.

I have flown HH for about 15 years and have taken hundreds of gamebirds but I have to say, hand on heart, that I have NEVER had one of my birds take a mature fit pheasant in fair level flight.



glad I didn't put any cash down with the gauntlet I threw earlier :oops: But I like a challenge..and hopefuly my male harris 'Daedalion' likes one too. If anyone can Daedalion can! 8-)

[OutFlying]

Lets get one thing straight on this thread - no where on this thread have I said a harris can't catch a pheasant, I stated how they do catch pheasants. No anti Harris posts neither.

If you want to fly them at pheasants then do so, you will have fun.

Yours Jim

ps I hope people read from the first posting on the thread before replying - rather than jumping in with their size 10 feet and adding 2 and 2 to get 5 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[OutFlying]

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutFlying
A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist (not taken on the rise or from a tree). Early season pheasant maybe but not late winter. They will follow and kill on the put in. If they had the speed to fly one down in level flight no one would bother with the goshawk.

OF.

ps Yes even when the harris is "superfit", it won't have the speed.


worth a try though isnt it
OF
may have a few good chases


Just thought I'd highlight the difficult bits for a few readers.

Yours Jim.

[Kanati]

Lets get one thing straight on this thread - no where on this thread have I said a harris can't catch a pheasant, I stated how they do catch pheasants. No anti Harris posts neither.

If you want to fly them at pheasants then do so, you will have fun.

Yours Jim

ps I hope people read from the first posting on the thread before replying - rather than jumping in with their size 10 feet and adding 2 and 2 to get 5 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Is it getting to you now :D It would **** me off too. All you said was A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist ... I think people expect the harris to be put down and are a bit protective. Dont worry mate...if they have ago at you, they obviously have not read the thread properly...

[OutFlying]

Kanati,
I can take all comments based upon my posting without taking offence, what I do take offence to is people not reading posts correctly and then posting statements I've never made.

Yours Jim.

ps Flew a good male harris and thought the same as you, never caught a pheasant from the fist though.

[Jarreth]

All true. I quite like gosses as well though

[Jarreth]

I think the lack of initial description regarding Carra's flight started a misunderstanding. It wasn't a straight chase, she came out of a tree high and on an angle to the pheasant and intercepted it, punched it very hard didn't even bother to drop down and catch that one she caught a different one instead in cover. Yes she was clever. And it was very dramatic, I'd like to say it was my bird but it wasn't even that!

I mentioned it to say simply yes they can catch them. I honestly didn't mean for you all to fall out. Wouldn't of mentioned it if I knew you would. Glad you've all kissed and made up.

[Roberto]

I have already flown too female goshawks, one Iberic and one Finnish, but
not at pheasants, occasionally ducks. Have males, when flown from the fist, such great advantage over females taking down a pheasant in level flight? (still want a hawk suitable for hares).

[Flying High]

From most of the post you can see that they can. All of the harries have and came take them regularly

[Isaac]

Here in Japan pheasants are the main game with ducks thrown in occasionally. While goshawks are the most widely used bird to pursue them Harris' are becoming quite popular. Here we're not allowed to take hen pheasants though so most falconers fly them from the fist so they can control which birds they go after better. Since I'll be flying a male Harris this year at pheasants off the fist (since I kinda don't have a choice) this has been an interesting thread. Will a Harris at least chase them off the fist and follow them into cover where they can catch them or do they know they're beat from the beginning? I suppose if they can't catch pheasants there's always ducks though...I'm assuming those will be taken on the rise as well since if they can't catch a pheasant in fair level flight ducks are out of the question too. Which do you think is faster pheasant or duck? Has anyone taken duck with a Harris on a consistent basis?

[OutFlying]

Here in Japan pheasants are the main game with ducks thrown in occasionally. While goshawks are the most widely used bird to pursue them Harris' are becoming quite popular. Here we're not allowed to take hen pheasants though so most falconers fly them from the fist so they can control which birds they go after better. Since I'll be flying a male Harris this year at pheasants off the fist (since I kinda don't have a choice) this has been an interesting thread. Will a Harris at least chase them off the fist and follow them into cover where they can catch them or do they know they're beat from the beginning? I suppose if they can't catch pheasants there's always ducks though...I'm assuming those will be taken on the rise as well since if they can't catch a pheasant in fair level flight ducks are out of the question too. Which do you think is faster pheasant or duck? Has anyone taken duck with a Harris on a consistent basis?

See highlight section above.

[Harrisii]

yip.
the harris will fly from the fist at pheasant, of course. but you will need a gos' to catch them in level flight. this much has been established so far.
the harris will on most occasions follow to cover where it will have a better chance of securing it.

yes the harris will take duck, and yes the harris will take pheasant.
but no it will not do it in level flight. this is gos' territory.

but you will have loads of fun trying and yes you will take pheasants and duck but your harris will do it in a way other birds cant or wont. nothing to be ashamed of at all. make the most of what you have. and you will enjoy it all the more.

each to his/her own, i love my harris others love their gos' but at the end of the day we all love the sport and the fascination of flying birds of prey at game. nothing is more thrilling. but again if you are happy doing what you do then encourage others to do what they do. dont dwell on the negatives of other birds. enjoy your sport, each and everyone of you.

[Ben C]

Taking pheasants with a harris is a right royle pain in the bum (taste nice but a pain in the bu, none the less). Harris on rabbit everytime. Late or even later season pheasants are too quick, and killing in cover gets a thumbs down. Match the hawk to the quarry and you come back to harris on rabbit. :supz: :supz: P.S I fly a male Harris

[Roberto]

"I have already flown too female goshawks, one Iberic and one Finnish, but
not at pheasants, occasionally ducks. Have males, when flown from the fist, such great advantage over females taking down a pheasant in level flight? (still want a hawk suitable for hares)."

males - Goshawks

[Harrisii]

Taking pheasants with a harris is a right royle pain in the bum (taste nice but a pain in the bu, none the less). Harris on rabbit everytime. Late or even later season pheasants are too quick, and killing in cover gets a thumbs down. Match the hawk to the quarry and you come back to harris on rabbit. :supz: :supz: P.S I fly a male Harris

"sometimes" they are a pain in the arse, you are right. many a time i have been waiting on a rabbit bolting from a warren with the harris soaring above. then just as you hear the rumble you look to check on her position just in time to see her fold in the wings and head after some ******* pheasant over the next field, then a rabbit bolts and heads long accross a flat open field at top speed. the perfect opportunity wasted. not to worry.
but they can prove to be a good quarry too and are a welomed addition to most harris hawkers bag, even if it is in cover. it shows the tenasity and resiliance of the harris'. opportunistic to a fault.

this thread has been over more bumps and through more brambles than an average day out but i would like to point out that i am not anti' goshawks. far from it. i am however pro harris hawks and love these birds for all their ups and downs. i just feel sometimes they are not given enough credit which is credit well due in my eyes. peace be with you fellow hawkers.

[Ben C]

Harissi: A Hawker after my own heart, soaring on rabbit is the highest form of the art in my VERY humble opinion.................I like to see how a Harris would cope on a pheasant flushed from under it at a good pitch???????? Now that could be a revelation for the old guard eh?? :supz: :supz:

[MickeyDredd]

Now that could be a revelation for the old guard eh?? :supz: :supz:

I doubt they would be interested cos thats not the style they wish to fly their Gos at pheasant ;)

[Ben C]

I doubt they would be interested cos thats not the style they wish to fly their Gos at pheasant ;)


A bit too windy you mean Mike??? Or perhaps too much waiting around :lol: :lol: :roll:

[Harrisii]

Harissi: A Hawker after my own heart, soaring on rabbit is the highest form of the art in my VERY humble opinion.................I like to see how a Harris would cope on a pheasant flushed from under it at a good pitch???????? Now that could be a revelation for the old guard eh?? :supz: :supz:

indeed it is emense, however not easy to engineer.
i have been priveledged enough to see it a few times and its awesome. even if it ends in a miss the thrill is very much up there.
this form of flying is stunning and is very exciting.
the highest form of the art?
well, in my branch of the sport anyway!

[Ben C]

I don't suppose you have any pictures do you???? I have a few of mine holding point but have yet to make a kill as the cover has been to thick of late or the wind has been poor........takes a bit of time doesn't it??


(I mean't slope soaring with a Harris on Quarry as the highest for of our branch as well ;) ;) )

[Harrisii]

I don't suppose you have any pictures do you???? I have a few of mine holding point but have yet to make a kill as the cover has been to thick of late or the wind has been poor........takes a bit of time doesn't it??


(I mean't slope soaring with a Harris on Quarry as the highest for of our branch as well ;) ;) )

no pics as yet Ben, i am wanting to take a video camera with us to record some of the flights but not easy to do. so much going on when ferreting, and flying. its disapointing as ive missed some really good takes when slope soaring to rabbits. twice in recent weeks my female HH ellie has lifted 2 rabbits clear off the hill and carried them a short distance before landing with them securely. absolutely stunning stuff. i just wish i had caught it on camera for all to see.
i had a few pics of ellie and her brother soaring but they were way up. just dots in the pic'.
ellie was soaring with 3 buzzards and they were talon showing ,brilliant.
meanwhile my brothers male was in combat with 2 kestrels way up.
shortly after this they both folded the wings and went diving into cover to the sound of pheasants calling and lifting. ellie took a hen, this was her first pheasant. what a brilliant day.

[OutFlying]

Harissi: A Hawker after my own heart, soaring on rabbit is the highest form of the art in my VERY humble opinion.................I like to see how a Harris would cope on a pheasant flushed from under it at a good pitch???????? Now that could be a revelation for the old guard eh?? :supz: :supz:

That sounds like a good flight to me :supz:

[Bones]

Personally i dont care who slags the HH off all i know is mine does what is asked from him and nails them when given the oppertunity who cares if they are what you call MUGGING flights its the flight and catch that i like to see and if like what has allready been stated i wanted to fly from the fist at pheasant i would go get a goss as simply as that
heres one taken earlier whilst out with romeo harris hawk well spotted by the bird a good 100yrd flight and yes took on the ground but what a superd stoop and flight leading to the quarry being in the bag at the end of the day
PS only out 30 mins lol

[Dave G]

yes bones well said ,our harris hawks have caught plenty of pheasants from flights out of trees , bones male harris coverd about 100 meters and nailed pheasant was a good flight and well held , the harris may not have the speed off the fist at pheasants in flight but then again how many goss hawkers can fly their birds out of trees so would say thats evens lol

[OutFlying]

Why couldn't a gos fly from a tree ?, they seem to do it in the wild quite well.

[Bones]

yes bones well said ,our harris hawks have caught plenty of pheasants from flights out of trees , bones male harris coverd about 100 meters and nailed pheasant was a good flight and well held , the harris may not have the speed off the fist at pheasants in flight but then again how many goss hawkers can fly their birds out of trees so would say thats evens lol
why thanks buddy and outflying im not goin down the goss argument line mate been there done it no winners just ****ed off goss flyers and hh flyers too many arguments over that hh /goss debate each to there own fly what you like how you like and reep the rewards lol
PAUL

[OutFlying]

Paul,
I laugh at a lot of the posts on here regarding goshawks, most quoted by people who have never owned or seen one fly.

They are the most difficult, killing machine, throw fits, catch everything in sight, mid air for fun etc etc etc ------Usual quotes.

Never heard as much ******** spoken / quoted in my life, providing your basic knowledge is good then they aren't difficult. Providing you knowledge is good they shouldn't be so low as to throw fits.

They will only mid air game if VERY FIT, and the vast majority aren't. They are no more a killing machine than any other hawk.

I don't knock the harris hawk, as it is a good hawk when flown well - I do question some peoples accounts of what they can and cannot do and how they do it. As I would of any species of BOP.

Jim.

[Bones]

very true words outflying and like i say not got bad words for you or any other goss hawker so not goin that line ok
PAUL


ps have seen a goss flown and taking game mate just to clear that score up ok and was very impressed

[OutFlying]

Paul,
Not directed at you :heart:

Jim.

[NikiZiggy]

Hi there, My 6 month old male has had 4 pheasants so far this season. He loves them. None in flight yet though, I flush them out of the hedges and he chases them till they take cover again, and then he pounces. He's great! No rabbits though, can't find any. We've had loads of buzzards nesting nearby this year, maybe they've become a bit more weary

[Bones]

Hi there, My 6 month old male has had 4 pheasants so far this season. He loves them. None in flight yet though, I flush them out of the hedges and he chases them till they take cover again, and then he pounces. He's great! No rabbits though, can't find any. We've had loads of buzzards nesting nearby this year, maybe they've become a bit more weary
Just a quick point mate as it happened to me get your bird entered on fur if you can sooner rather then later as i had a MHH that would only tail chase rabbits never took one but lamped pheasants for fun as he was entered on pheasant first and not rabbit still had plenty fun with him just no rabbits which can be frustating i think thgey take a big preference to pheasant if take enough just my oppinion open to argument
PAUL

[SycoPaff]

Just a quick point mate as it happened to me get your bird entered on fur if you can sooner rather then later as i had a MHH that would only tail chase rabbits never took one but lamped pheasants for fun as he was entered on pheasant first and not rabbit still had plenty fun with him just no rabbits which can be frustating i think thgey take a big preference to pheasant if take enough just my oppinion open to argument
PAUL
i haven't had much exeriance with the harris' but the males i'v flown one in particular has caught rat, rabbit, blackbird, pigeon, gull, mallard, F phesant, mole, and chased a hare once! but now he wont catch rabbit or mallard! its jus a confidence matter! vering off is coz hes scared!

[Ben C]

Harrisii: Just for you, I think the pitch is high enough for pheasant, just need to get under em.

[LanczSpringer]

Ben:- The pitch in the bottom picture may be OK for a vole not sure about a rabbit though ;-)

P.S. after reading this post I now know why I stoped comming on here, people talking BS without a clue in the world! Some cant even read!!!

[Harrisii]

Brill Pics Ben.
keep it up, (the good pics) not the harris, or anything else, you filthy minded beggers.
the secret is getting the right location and conditions. a good hill for lift with some cover to get the pheasants out of. wish you well ben.

[Harrisii]

Personally i dont care who slags the HH off all i know is mine does what is asked from him and nails them when given the oppertunity who cares if they are what you call MUGGING flights its the flight and catch that i like to see and if like what has allready been stated i wanted to fly from the fist at pheasant i would go get a goss as simply as that
heres one taken earlier whilst out with romeo harris hawk well spotted by the bird a good 100yrd flight and yes took on the ground but what a superd stoop and flight leading to the quarry being in the bag at the end of the day
PS only out 30 mins lol

spot on bones, spot on.

[Ben C]

Yes indeed BONES: But as we have talked about mate, your RT up on a big south shropshire hill...............and you can show me a thing or two dude :supz: :supz: :supz: :supz:

[Ben C]

I spent all day trying to get my Harris flying off the fist at pheasant (15).....but not a chance......so I thought **** it, rabbits will do.......and you know what................THEY ARE STILL THE BEST QUARRY FOR A HARRIS.......easy........so why bother with those stoooooopid indian interlopers?????????

1: Bolt.......2: Chase.......3: MISS :rolleyes: :roll: :supz:

[Takajo]

Why? Cuz the chases are awesome. Be opportunistic (as your Harris is) and increase the chances of success for you bird by flushing the pheasant to your bird's advantage. Fewer escape routes, etc. Harris uses brains, not speed. Harris is a social BOP, unlike the speedy Gos. Be opportunistic along with her...

[Ben C]

Nope Takajo: HH fly mainly ground game in the states.....so thats why the flight on rabbit is both more sporting and more fun. :heart:

I could go out a nail a pheasant everyday but its not worth a **** if the flight ain't right. :supz:

A flushed pheasant in cover is OK, and the meat tastes right dandy, but the spectacle leaves a lot to be desired. :rolleyes:

[Takajo]

If you flied at pheasant everyday, sure you'd get some **** flights and sure you'd get some kick arse flights too. I sprint-train my FH and the flights are fantastic from the T-perch.

[Ben C]

Interesting: I don't use a T perch, I am talking from the fist only. Not sure what the pheasants are like in the far east, but round here they go up high and fast and leave the HH for dead, every time...........never heard of sprint training, how does it work? I can't see a HH taking on a pheasant in fair flight, I can see one loping after them and killing it in cover a fair distance away. But not a twisting, cavorting, mental tail chase right up to the put in.

I personally think you get a PERFECT match, speed for speed with the humble ole rabbit. In fact i'd state my life on it. :heart: :heart: :heart:

[MattSpar]

I can't see a HH taking on a pheasant in fair flight, I can see one loping after them and killing it in cover a fair distance away.....

My own harris' is as good a performer at game as you're likely to find, and will fly a pheasant at any distance he can see one. He will also head off towards the sound of one, tracking it down that way, but if he fails to take it by surprise, the resulting flight is as stated by Ben C.

[Bones]

even easier with two MHH'S lol

[Raseni]

I fly my harris at feather only.
This is our first season and this is what we caught so far.

2 grey partridge
4 hen pheasants
1 cock
1 mallard hen

From what I have experienced, the harris have a hard time matching a pheasant in free flight, but, on the ground, or on the reflush they get the job done.
I think a male HH har a great chance at the autum pheasants pheasant in free flight, but the big ol winter pheasant are just too fast in free flight,.

But I have has some amazing flights with mine, even some very close flights, on mid-air pheasants.
I shall try my HH at crows and gulls this weekend or next week, so I am a bit exited to see how that goes.

I even had a flight on snipe, where my HH was only inches from catching it, but you gotta be only lucky ******* to get a snipe with a HH, they are super fast.
Maybe a spar or a coops would do the job?

cheers,
Rasmus

[Ben C]

Rasmus: Don't get me wrong I love the tatse of all game and I will go on catching phessy's. I am just trying for a bit better finesse this year, and unfortunately, a HH on pheasant ain't rocking my world.

I have had flights at snipe, I have caught woodcock, caught loads of pheasant, caught coot and caught moorhen, etc etc but the difference between rabbit and their feathered counterpart is between catching and catching with style. This is in my VERY VERY humble opinion.


Unless you Bonesy who is just MAD FER IT!!! (LOL)

[Bones]

Unless you Bonesy who is just MAD FER IT!!! (LOL)
Yea i suppose you could say that but i like to be out as often as poss in all weathers any time of the day and all scenarios birds weight permitting lol ive even brought the missus a pair of imatation wings for crimbo to see if ill take more notice and spend as much time with her as i do out with the birdy's lol
PAUL

[Ben C]

Paul: Get her running in front of you and let one of your RT's slip.....then you can nurse her back to health and she will love you more mate :supz: :goodman:

[Bones]

Paul: Get her running in front of you and let one of your RT's slip.....then you can nurse her back to health and she will love you more mate :supz: :goodman:
Mate you have not seen my missus thats why i go out let alone get her to run in front of me even a half starved red wouldn't entertain it as for nursing her back to health well
PMSL

[Ben C]

:supz: :supz: :supz:

[Gurt]

They need practice to regularly 'mug' pheasants . They need to antisapate what the wiley old birds are going to do just before the point of impact. pheasants in my opinion always seem freeze untill the hawk is committed to the strike , then do a side step before flushing.
Male HH last week. flies at 1lb.6oz.

[Wightwings]

missed this thread ( like many others) great read....

[MattSpar]

They need practice to regularly 'mug' pheasants . They need to antisapate what the wiley old birds are going to do just before the point of impact. pheasants in my opinion always seem freeze untill the hawk is committed to the strike , then do a side step before flushing.


Ain't that the truth!

[Hacker]

My MHH is a new hybrid Harris/Jetex
You should try one! Gos owners eat your hearts out this little baby will burn your old birds out in a puff of nitro!
Missus knitted a neat little asbestos number so that the jetex rocket wont singe his feathers.
Just light the blue touch paper and WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
A cock in each talon in mid air.

[Harrisii]

Why? Cuz the chases are awesome. Be opportunistic (as your Harris is) and increase the chances of success for you bird by flushing the pheasant to your bird's advantage. Fewer escape routes, etc. Harris uses brains, not speed. Harris is a social BOP, unlike the speedy Gos. Be opportunistic along with her...

brilliant post Tokajo. lean to its strengths, makes perfect sence.
go for a complete mixed bag and increase the quarry species list.

[Ben C]

brilliant post Tokajo. lean to its strengths, makes perfect sence.
go for a complete mixed bag and increase the quarry species list.


Harrisii I respect your opinion, but this is foolhardy......a HH can shine in a far superior way if it is used on a proper rabbit running, not just hunting for hunting sake, well unless your Hugh Fearnly Eats It All........:supz: Apart fom which rabbit is a much nicer meat than these force fed indian chooks.


Use the right tool for the right job..............A Harris Hawk on pheasant is not a fair match in all honesty. Pheasant running on the ground and in cover are so easy I can catch them buy hand sometimes!!! (Well until xmas that is).

(However I will still hunt and eat em, so I am being a bit hypocritical, just don't tell anyone!)

[Ben C]

Death roll off the fist onto Pheasant (I think, may be rabbit, but I am sure its pheasant, but could well be wrong :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )

[North East Harris Hawker]

great photographs on this thread!
getting back to the original question though, there is no reason why a fit harris should not nail pheasant. theres the key word...FIT...
i once flew a 2lb 3 female that could catch a flushed pheasant on the wing in flight like a gos. this bird was flown between 6 and 8 hours each day though and was remarkably fit

[MattSpar]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe this. Being "super fit" doesn't make a harris, or any hawk for that matter, faster beyond a certain point governed by their physical makeup. Harris's aren't paricularly speedy. Not only are pheasants (and I'm talking of adult, winter pheasants here) faster than a harris, but they are faster by a considerable margin. Most gosses are unable to outfly pheasants ONCE THEY HAVE REACHED FULL SPEED, let alone a harris.

[Ben C]

Muscles on a hawk cannot and do not change the phsyionomy of the wing or the feathers but may help with the wing beat. IMHO. Over a long distance the wing beat of a pheasant is greater and more rapid than a broad wing. A gos has a wing beat of similar pattern therefore is more likely to keep up if fit enough. A HH on the other hand will coast along after about 200 or 300 yards.

NEEH: That is one cracking sounding hawk, however she has got to be the exception to the rule I would imagine. Unless it was from a tree, in which case its not really fair.

[North East Harris Hawker]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe this. Being "super fit" doesn't make a harris, or any hawk for that matter, faster beyond a certain point governed by their physical makeup. Harris's aren't paricularly speedy. Not only are pheasants (and I'm talking of adult, winter pheasants here) faster than a harris, but they are faster by a considerable margin. Most gosses are unable to outfly pheasants ONCE THEY HAVE REACHED FULL SPEED, let alone a harris.

this is fine that you dont believe, i know the harris i fly now is not capable of this deed. but then she is much larger and not flown half as regularly as my old bird (who unfortunaltely came a cropper to an escaped ferret)
whilst its quite a bold statement to make, the bird was capable of this and caught pheasants some 20 metres into their flight from the glove. she did unfortunately have her traits and was bad mannered in the form of repeated footing of the bare hand. this made jess changing a headache and whilst she was a superb hunter I wouldnt swap my "new" hen bird back for her!

[Ben C]

[QUOTE=North East Harris Hawker] the bird was capable of this and caught pheasants some 20 metres into their flight from the glove. QUOTE]

That is ****ING amazing falconry........................she must have been unique in the UK to achieve such a feat. Do you have pictures of it flying the pheasant down in level flight??? Very impressed NEEH.

[MattSpar]

If your harris was taking pheasants within 20 yards, they were not in full flight. I'm sorry to appear sceptical, but that's just what I am. It's strange how people "had" such a hawk, they never "have" one.
Camcorders are small enough to be easily carried in the field. If anyone out there can show genuine footage of a harris overtaking and catching a pheasant IN FULL FLIGHT, I'm sure we'd all like to see it. I won't hold my breath.

[North East Harris Hawker]

well, some nice digs here, but i kinda expected them. i suppose you carry a camcorder/camera in your bare hand everywhere mattspar? or could you whip it out of your pocket and photo your bird before it flew 20m ?
i doubt it.
my last 9 months after i had signed off from the army i ran the bar.
i only had to go in on an evening which gave me all day, every day on salisbury plain with her, hence her fitness. having to actually go to work now i could never hope form my new bird to achieve a half the level of fitness my old bird had. I saw her do it and i know its quite a feat and in the ten years i have practised the sport i have never seen another bird do it.
It was witnessed by other falconers in the scottish hawking club during a trip to dumfries in 1996 where she nailed a cock bird in flight over a field after chasing it some 80M though a wood. a chap from bedfordshire offered to buy the bird that evening despite her other traits.

[Ben C]

where she nailed a cock bird in flight over a field after chasing it some 80M though a wood. .

If this sort of thing happened regularly and consistently, then I would take a photo of it at the very least. As you can see from my photographs it is possible with practice to capture a hawk in flight, from the glove at the distance you quote.

But I must say NEEH I do not doubt you at all. I take it on face value what you say, it woud be rude to think otherwise!

[MattSpar]

It's easy to arrange for someone else to carry a camcorder. Simly get him to turn it on, flush the pheasant (in the open), allow it to get up speed before slipping the harris.... then capture all on film, as the pheasant leaves her standing.
I don't mean to "have a dig" at you sir, but harris's simply are not capable of that kind of feat. Perhaps there was something wrong with that particular pheasant, or did your harris pull off this stunt regularly?
There are many harris hawkers out there (I'm one) and I repeat, video footage of this feat would, I'm sure, be welcomed by all as the only conclusive evidence.

[North East Harris Hawker]

PMSL thanks, this was early on in the sport for me so it did'nt really register at the time. when the guys dog flushed the bird someone behind me said "your wasting your time slipping her on that one she'll never catch it"
ha ha! he was gutted when i brought it back!

[Ben C]

PMSL thanks, this was early on in the sport for me so it did'nt really register at the time. when the guys dog flushed the bird someone behind me said "your wasting your time slipping her on that one she'll never catch it"
ha ha! he was gutted when i brought it back!

So was this a regular thing, and you saw it take the pheasant mid air through a wood at 80 meters?.

[North East Harris Hawker]

It's easy to arrange for someone else to carry a camcorder. Simly get him to turn it on, flush the pheasant (in the open), allow it to get up speed before slipping the harris.... then capture all on film, as the pheasant leaves her standing.
I don't mean to "have a dig" at you sir, but harris's simply are not capable of that kind of feat. Perhaps there was something wrong with that particular pheasant, or did your harris pull off this stunt regularly?
There are many harris hawkers out there (I'm one) and I repeat, video footage of this feat would, I'm sure, be welcomed by all as the only conclusive evidence.
hey, i was on £38 a day in the army, only just managed to scrape the money together to get to scotland, was the only person who had no telemetry (on the account that it was well out of my price league) and yet i'm expected to carry camcorders and the likes! my bird did not undertake this feat on a day to day basis, but from time to time it happened.
but if your gonna put your foot down and say "but harris's simply are not capable of that kind of feat" perhaps it is you sir, who simply has'nt the time or patience to get such a bird to this level?
Better to sit back and criticize something that is obviously well out of your league. its a lot easier afterall

[MattSpar]

As I say, let someone provide visual proof for us all (it won't happen).

[Ben C]

If that is what happened, then that is what happened...........:supz: :supz:

I was speaking to some of the serious Goshawkers the other day and they said that even a Gos would be pushed taking a pheasant in mid flight....and they have been flying them for 15 to 20 years.....so seriously well done NEEH.

[North East Harris Hawker]

So was this a regular thing, and you saw it take the pheasant mid air through a wood at 80 meters?.
apologies for the double post.
yes I saw it and so did the rest of the people in our party. the flight through the wood was through a firebreak. the cock bird flew on the right side of it yet when it exited decided to turn left? my bird "lisa" gave chase on the left of the firebreak and as the pheasant banked left in front of her she made up the distance and struck it. quite a breathtaking flight.

[North East Harris Hawker]

As I say, let someone provide visual proof for us all (it won't happen).
there will be someone else out there who's bird does the same. lets wait and see what others post

[MattSpar]

there will be someone else out there who's bird does the same. lets wait and see what others post

Yes indeed. Meanwhile, good hawking.

[Hacker]

I think you will find that no Harris will fly down a pheasant in straight flight but , like hare coursing, if the pheasant deviates off its path then this can then give the hunter an advantage, as following behind it can read the move and cut the corner so to speak.
Hence the kill.
I do a lot of shooting and the game conservancy have done a lot of research into bird speed, regarding species , size etc and the pheasant came out tops in maximum speed from a standing start flush, as is usual with all prey species needing an advantage over their hunters, otherwise the prey would become extinct followed by the hunters.

[Ben C]

If a pheasant is deviating off course then I am assuming it is not up to top speed and is more or less on the rise. At least that is what happens with the zillions of pheasants around my neck of the woods.

[Ben C]

This is about as much of a pheasant as I can managed.....note the cover and the fence :supz: :supz: :supz: :supz: I wish I could get em in mid-flight but there you go, such is life.

[North East Harris Hawker]

ha ha! could that be a pen?
i'd like to say that i have never been near a pheasant pen, but i wont for fear of going to hell!

[Takajo]

Flying your Harris' at pheasant really is an excellent chase to watch, but yes, buzzards are not built for pheasant hunting. More of a falcon's prey. But that's the fun of it for me. When my FHH Adrianna nails one, I end up singing her name all day. No doubt, Ben, Harrises aren't matched up for a pheasant. It is quite fun, though, to see the spectacle. I give her more than average feed-on-prey time when she does nail one.....

[Ben C]

ha ha! could that be a pen?
i'd like to say that i have never been near a pheasant pen, but i wont for fear of going to hell!

Nope not a pen, just a old fence you cheeky monkey..........I don't have release pens on my land but I am surrounded by them. However to date your still the only one to catch a cock in mid air at 80 meters, through a wood on a right hand incline NEEH. Good going.


Takajo: Agreed it is great fun and they taste good to.

[DeathFromAbove]

Kaia had a cock pheasant in mid air the other week, she hit the deck with it but lost the ******.....cuh..... lol bet it had a headache by the time it reached the other woods. not to worry tho cos she nailed a hen pheasant a little further on.

[Ben C]

Cool. I have had Cody hit em in mid-air too, but he never holds onto them either, their feathers are rather thick I find, oh and it has always been in free flight, from and elavated position and only on the rise. But I have never had a Cock pheasant in fair flight off the fist....that I would dearly love to see as it would be very unique...........................:cool: :cool:

[North East Harris Hawker]

the feathers o the rump pull out easily and the hawk is often left holding just these. as they get a bi longer in the tooth they learn to grab the underneath/go straight for the head. glad there are plenty of people out there nailing them. ive still got to get one this year!

[DeathFromAbove]

the feathers o the rump pull out easily and the hawk is often left holding just these. as they get a bi longer in the tooth they learn to grab the underneath/go straight for the head. glad there are plenty of people out there nailing them. ive still got to get one this year!

I'm sure you'll get one before long mate. question is then.. what would you do with it? feed the hawk or yourself.... or both hehehe

[North East Harris Hawker]

they are good eating mind!
it depends, if the hawk makes a mess of it she can have it all. if its a clean head catch she can have the head and neck and the rest will be mine!
i normally gut and pluck in the field then let the pheasant rest in the fridge for 2-3 days before it goes into the oven.
i like eating em, but its always better to hve a couple in the oven than just the one

[Ssugiya@biol1.bio.nagoya-]

Hi, this is my first post.
I have added it as a reply to an existing thread instead of starting a new one. I hope people see it.
I would like advice on catching pheasants with a male harris hawk.
I don't own my own bird and have been going with a friend who does. We are in central Japan and hunt in a suburban/farming area where there are no rabbits. This was our second season hunting and this male caught over 20 ducks by January so we decided to try our hand at pheasants. They are Japanese pheasants that are pretty much like ringneck pheasants from china. What we do is drive around agricultural land from dawn and look for pheasants in the open. Most of the time the spooked pheasants go into the nearest cover, but sometimes they just squat in place and freeze hoping we will pass them by. The thing is to show the hawk the pheasant from within the car before it ducks, otherwise it won't be able to find the pheasant most of the time. If the hawk still sees the pheasant it will go directly for it and if not it will go up in a tree or pole and wait for us to drive it out. If the pheasant flushes there is almost no chance but if it tries to sneak off the hawk will be on it. Hunting this way, we stalk 5-6 pheasants in a morning and the hawk actually bindsin one in about 10 attempts, but even after 4 or 5 really good attacks where the pheasant has squawked and left behind a pile of feathers we haven't actually bagged any.
We have learned to sharpen talons, but is there any kind of training that might help? Compared to ducks the pheasants don't seem to be as aware of the hawk but when they are, they dodge it at the last moment.

We have tried walking in the brush and flushing pheasants but without a dog you never know when they will burst out and we never came close to getting one this way while flying from the fist. It might be different using a T perch. I have read that the standard strategy is to mark where the pheasant puts in and to get it on the reflush but the pheasants in our area fly off really far (more than half a kilometer) and most of the time we don't see where they land. The other method seems to be to get the hawk to follow the pheasant and attack it when it glides at the end to put in, but is there a good way to train your hawk to do this? Or do most hawks just learn it naturally after a while?

The season here has ended so this request is in anticipation for the next one. Thanks in advance.

Below are some photos on my blog. Sorry its in Japanese.
http://ssugiya.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2007/01/post_8985.html
The pheasant on the previous page is a baggie and not a wild one (too bad!).

[GregMik]

Have you tried walking around with the bird following on from the trees? How much fitness training have you done? Is there anybody else around you flying a bird?

Here is one of the pics from his Blog.

The way I am doing it on here is:

web address of your pic here

http://ssugiya.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/images/dsc7634.jpg

Greg

[Ssugiya@biol1.bio.nagoya-]

Hi Greg,
thanks for a prompt response!

Have you tried walking around with the bird following on from the trees?

No we haven't actively tried to, but that is what we end up doing sometimes. There are not that many trees in the fields we hunt.
What distance from the quarry and what height would you consider optimal?
Do you think a T perch would be any good or would it be too low?

We ARE planning fitness training next season. Jump-ups as a start.


Most of the traditional falconers fly goshawks while newcomers start with harris hawks. I know a few people who fly falcons but they are only starting to catch their first ducks or pheasants this year.

Thanks for posting the picture.

Shin

[Isaac]

Great pics Shin! Are you up in Nagoya? Who do you fly with? Do you know the guys from Kappa? Great to see you on the forum, we need more members from Japan!

Oh and as for pheasants, when they go into the grass get your Harris up on a good high T-perch and start walking thru it. My Harris spotted a few like that and flew over and smacked them. He was never able to hold on but we had some cool flights! Good luck!

[Ssugiya@biol1.bio.nagoya-]

Hi Issac,
Yes, I know the guys at Kappa, but they broke up. One still runs the place, another moved back to Tokyo and the other has started a falconry shop in Gifu City which is pretty close. The politics in traditional Japanese falconry is always pretty complicated.
I usually hunt with a guy who is only in his second season so you probably wouldn't know him. Please tell me if you are ever in the Nagoya area.
How high is your T perch?
Any ideas on how to train a male harris to grab a pheasant securely? From experience with baggies (farmed pheasants) they fight more fiercely than ducks and will still kick and beat after you thought they were dead.
Shin

Do you know the guys from Kappa? <snip>
Oh and as for pheasants, when they go into the grass get your Harris up on a good high T-perch and start walking thru it. My Harris spotted a few like that and flew over and smacked them. He was never able to hold on but we had some cool flights! Good luck!

[Isaac]

The politics in traditional Japanese falconry is always pretty complicated.


:lol: Yeah, I know. Kinda silly huh.

Please tell me if you are ever in the Nagoya area.

I lived up in Nagoya for two years. Right in the city and then out in Kasugai and Inuyama. Great places. I went to a meet there last year and we saw TONS of pheasants (but no one caught anything! :lol:) Unfortunately I'll be leaving Japan in August so I won't be around for next season. If I ever make my way back over I'd love to visit. How is that hobby of yours doing? Did you ever get it to chase sparrows?

How high is your T perch?
My T-perch was about a meter and a half tall but I know some people in the U.S. use much taller ones. I have heard of T-perches up to 3 meters! With the tall Japanese grass a taller one might be better. My bird loved the T-perch and would return to it from anywhere in the field. I hope that more Japanese falconers flying Harris hawks start to use the T-perch. Too many people try to fly Harris hawks like goshawks and it doesn't work. A Harris hawk doesn't have a chance of catching a Japanese pheasant off the fist. If your friend uses a T-perch you can also chase sparrows with the male Harris. It will keep your bird fit and you'll get many more flights during the day. I posted some videos of my bird chasing sparrows from a T-perch in another thread but it looks like it got erased. I'll see if I can PM them to you later.

Any ideas on how to train a male harris to grab a pheasant securely? From experience with baggies (farmed pheasants) they fight more fiercely than ducks and will still kick and beat after you thought they were dead.
Shin

I don't know how to train them to grab more securely other then to give them lots of opportunities. Once they know they taste good they'll do their best to hang on. Good luck next season!

[Ssugiya@biol1.bio.nagoya-]

Unfortunately I'll be leaving Japan in August so I won't be around for next season. If I ever make my way back over I'd love to visit.
I'm dissappointed to hear that, but I guess you'll be in a better hunting environment back in the States.


How is that hobby of yours doing? Did you ever get it to chase sparrows?
No its still a pet at home. I'm scared of flying it free because they are no longer imported since the restrictions due to the bird flu scare were enforced.


My T-perch was about a meter and a half tall but I know some people in the U.S. use much taller ones. I have heard of T-perches up to 3 meters! With the tall Japanese grass a taller one might be better. My bird loved the T-perch and would return to it from anywhere in the field. I hope that more Japanese falconers flying Harris hawks start to use the T-perch.
I thought that taller would be better to give the bird momentum at the start, but if the purpose is to give the hawk a vantage point to spot the pheasant maybe it doesn't have to be that tall. I was thinking of getting one of those alumium poles that people here use to air their futons outside.



Too many people try to fly Harris hawks like goshawks and it doesn't work. A Harris hawk doesn't have a chance of catching a Japanese pheasant off the fist. If your friend uses a T-perch you can also chase sparrows with the male Harris. It will keep your bird fit and you'll get many more flights during the day. I posted some videos of my bird chasing sparrows from a T-perch in another thread but it looks like it got erased. I'll see if I can PM
them to you later.

We started with a hunting style that worked for us with ducks, which was throwing from the fist. By the latter half of January we were getting ducks consistantly, but we ended up having spooked or educated must of them within an hour's drive, so we switched to pheasants to give them a rest. Compared to ducks the pheasants seem less sensitive to hunting pressure and they can be found more reliably even if we can't catch them. So you can depend on having fun and the bird gets flown a lot.I guess there isn't a single sure way to get pheasants, but while we have several different strategies for different situations with ducks, our methods for pheasants are few. I am sure the T perch will help.
There was one slip where we spotted a pheasant in short grass in a drained rice field. It just vanished when we got out of the car, but I was sure it couldn't have run off with the grass less than ankle deep. We flew the hawk so it passed a few times over the place but it didn't find the pheasant and so we walked in with the hawk on the fist. I knew almost exactly where it should be but just couldn't spot it at ten meters. I went in closer and it flushed from a spot about 2 meters from where I last saw it. It was a big male and I just can't understand how it was able to dissapear like a ninja with no where to hide. Is it the same with ring neck pheasants in the States? Anyway, the hawk was looking in the wrong direction and I think the pheasants are always watching the hawk and waiting for it to face somewhere else before they break cover. I hope a T-perch might help the hawk spot the pheasant first at times like this. Another idea is to throw something like a heavy lure at the spot you believe the pheasant is, to flush it and attract the hawk's attention at the same time.

[Yeoman]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/mass2k5/today4.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/mass2k5/today5.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/mass2k5/today6.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/mass2k5/today7.jpg

Kevin you must take me to this wonderful place
Kev

[Juddy Casper]

Paul,
I laugh at a lot of the posts on here regarding goshawks, most quoted by people who have never owned or seen one fly.

They are the most difficult, killing machine, throw fits, catch everything in sight, mid air for fun etc etc etc ------Usual quotes.

Never heard as much ******** spoken / quoted in my life, providing your basic knowledge is good then they aren't difficult. Providing you knowledge is good they shouldn't be so low as to throw fits.

They will only mid air game if VERY FIT, and the vast majority aren't. They are no more a killing machine than any other hawk.

I don't knock the harris hawk, as it is a good hawk when flown well - I do question some peoples accounts of what they can and cannot do and how they do it. As I would of any species of BOP.

Jim.
Very very true post Jim
Jay

[Juddy Casper]

harris hawks can and do take pheasants, without a doubt.
sure, all the gos' people will go on about how they cannot take them in level flight and yes they are right, most of the time, but the harris can and will take pheasants time and again. they soon learn that if they follow the pheasants they will put in and it is here that the harris will take its chance.
as the pheasant slows to a halt the harris will seize this opportunity and take it as it drops or as it hits the ground. they will take them from trees as the pheasant is flushed.
again the gos' people will scoff but its still a take and a well deserved one given that the harris knows it is there and is waiting for its opportunity when flushed. here the harris is using height and brains to work out the best way of taking a tricky and cunning bird. thats what harris' do, gos' hawks use their superior speed to fly them down.
hardly a reason to talk down a harris.
the other week my mates male, (the one which was lost recently) soared away out from the hill much to our amusment. no-one was sure where he was going. he continued right out and went into a stoop dropping like a stone and took a female pheasant as it lifted some way off. what a stunning flight.
now tell me a gos that will do that??
both have their different ways and will use different methods to take pheasants. it a personal preferance as to which method (or bird) you prefer not a reason to decry another bird cos it doesnt do what your bird does.
so yes, harris' will take pheasant, but not as good as a gos' if you believe what you read here. pure big ********.
What a load of unadulterated crok of *****, harris doing the crisp bag impersernation floating about, no-one was sure were were he was going, he was self hunting pal a carra carra could have done that, and yes some gosses can hunt like that if there owners wish to fly them in that style , wich in my humble opinion would be a traversty,the gos if handled properly has everthing,looks , speed ,mine is as steady as any harris and she is pr ive flew harris hawks for 12yrs this is my first gos they are not in the same street,when i think of a harris i always think of Chris Eubanks the boxer ,taking the easy option, always did just enough to get by if thats inteligence keep it i want to see things done in style id sooner see 1 pheasant pulled out of the air with a gos rather than half a dozen kidnapped by Johnny rook, i used to watch my harris take rabbits day after dayand she was good at it also taking hare and muggiing pheasants by the buket, but to see my gos turn over and pull a partridge out of the sky made me feel so humble even the bunnys taken with the gos are done with more finness.
Jay

[GspJaz]

What a load of unadulterated crok of *****, harris doing the crisp bag impersernation floating about, no-one was sure were were he was going, he was self hunting pal a carra carra could have done that, and yes some gosses can hunt like that if there owners wish to fly them in that style , wich in my humble opinion would be a traversty,the gos if handled properly has everthing,looks , speed ,mine is as steady as any harris and she is pr ive flew harris hawks for 12yrs this is my first gos they are not in the same street,when i think of a harris i always think of Chris Eubanks the boxer ,taking the easy option, always did just enough to get by if thats inteligence keep it i want to see things done in style id sooner see 1 pheasant pulled out of the air with a gos rather than half a dozen kidnapped by Johnny rook, i used to watch my harris take rabbits day after dayand she was good at it also taking hare and muggiing pheasants by the buket, but to see my gos turn over and pull a partridge out of the sky made me feel so humble even the bunnys taken with the gos are done with more finness.
Jay
Youv'e done it now TUBBA the harris hawk police will arrest you :evil: :evil:

[John Soulsby]

How long exactly have you flown a Gos?

John

[Yeoman]

How long exactly have you flown a Gos?

John

John he states in his post that this is his first gos, and a damm good job he has made, he has flown harris hawks for 12 yrs ,he has been coming out with me for the past 10yrs, no one advocated harris hawks like him and his last female was good,but this gos has opened his eyes .
ATB Kev

[HawkingSam]

The second thing that Rona count would a cock pheasant.

[John Soulsby]

John he states in his post that this is his first gos, and a damm good job he has made, he has flown harris hawks for 12 yrs ,he has been coming out with me for the past 10yrs, no one advocated harris hawks like him and his last female was good,but this gos has opened his eyes .
ATB Kev

As did mine but I would never forget the fun I had and indeed still have with a good Harris.

John

[Yeoman]

As did mine but I would never forget the fun I had and indeed still have with a good Harris.

John

Fair play John, i borrowed a harris in 1989 and caught more pheasants with that bird than i have to date with any single gos, but id rather see one single bird flown down with my bird, than all those i caught with that harris put together he was good on bunnys and at those he gave the best flights,in the mid 70s i raced pigeons,and if i didnt have a gos to fly thats what id be doing now
ATB Kev

[Ben C]

Anyone flying sussecefully Harris at pheasants? Last Saturday, for the first time, I have try them with my 03 years old female but they all escaped. She is very good at rabbits and hares whit many, many pieces taken last years, but now I want to put her at feather. To increase confidence on this quarry I´m thinking on realese and let her kill one or too pheasants, eat well on them and try again next week. Could this Parabuteo take them regurally?

regards


Harris Hawks will take them on over very long distance but it takes ages to get that right. Harry McElroy uses passage males to take quail (cortunix cortunix??) which fly as hard and as fast and as far as your likely to see. A goshawk wouldbe best, but I ain't no expert.

I guess it really boils down to how fast you want your flights. or if you like em outta trees:supz: :heart: :supz:

[Harrisii]

What a load of unadulterated crok of *****, harris doing the crisp bag impersernation floating about, no-one was sure were were he was going, he was self hunting pal a carra carra could have done that, and yes some gosses can hunt like that if there owners wish to fly them in that style , wich in my humble opinion would be a traversty,the gos if handled properly has everthing,looks , speed ,mine is as steady as any harris and she is pr ive flew harris hawks for 12yrs this is my first gos they are not in the same street,when i think of a harris i always think of Chris Eubanks the boxer ,taking the easy option, always did just enough to get by if thats inteligence keep it i want to see things done in style id sooner see 1 pheasant pulled out of the air with a gos rather than half a dozen kidnapped by Johnny rook, i used to watch my harris take rabbits day after dayand she was good at it also taking hare and muggiing pheasants by the buket, but to see my gos turn over and pull a partridge out of the sky made me feel so humble even the bunnys taken with the gos are done with more finness.
Jay


crock of ****, what was **** about that post, i feel it as close to the truth as you can get.
so quote what parts were undulterated crock of ****.

i didnt slag off anything, or say any untruths so whats the problem?

the bird i mentioned was slope soaring and went out from the hill and stooped onto a rising pheasant.
whats up with that??
read the post again and tell me where the untruths and **** was??
please.

thankyou, H.

[Hardcore Hawker]

My male Harris took 28 Game birds last season out of 97 head, but i would much rather see my gos take an up and under out of the air at 80-100 metres than all of those taken by the Harris last year. I still love Harris Hawks and dont knock them they are not a backward step just different! still very good at what they do.

[GoodFooter]

I like to see how a Harris would cope on a pheasant flushed from under it at a good pitch???????? Now that could be a revelation for the old guard eh?? :supz: :supz:

I've never been excited by soaring but that I would like to see:supz: give the longwinger and gos brigade some thing to talk about!!!

Generally
A harris will never be a Gos and visa versa both take pheasant but differently and personally I dont see the need to compare them. Both have good and bad and average falconers/austringer flying them.
To me a male HH taking a cock pheasant ( or hen) whether he wears it down or takes it on the rise is a bird worth owning & praising.......3 x his size, can outfly him in terms of speed,can give him a hiding on the ground if not taken with presision and well....I like eating pheasant and dont care for rabbit.....

who invented the word mugging for falconry???? were I to ''mug'' someone they certainly wouldnt be 3x my size, equipped with spear like spurs and fly faster than I can run....... to me a harris taking a pheasant is no more of a mugging than one taking a rabbit.

[WvH]

i was trying to get a pheasant today,but they are too fast.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=aqOIqX7gz3Q

[Moto]

Was this not once a post about the harris taking pheasants:confused:

[Harrisii]

John he states in his post that this is his first gos, and a damm good job he has made, he has flown harris hawks for 12 yrs ,he has been coming out with me for the past 10yrs, no one advocated harris hawks like him and his last female was good,but this gos has opened his eyes .
ATB Kev

he flew harris hawks for 12 years, but started falconry in 1997?
i aint good with numbers but this dont add up to me.

[Yeoman]

[QUOTE=Harrisii;678406]he flew harris hawks for 12 years, but started falconry in 1997?
i aint good with numbers but this dont add up to me.[/QUOTE
my mistake give or take a year whats your problem pal

[Juddy Casper]

he flew harris hawks for 12 years, but started falconry in 1997?
i aint good with numbers but this dont add up to me.

No and Kev aint good with numbers either :lol:

[Harrisii]

[quote=Harrisii;678406]he flew harris hawks for 12 years, but started falconry in 1997?
i aint good with numbers but this dont add up to me.[/QUOTE
my mistake give or take a year whats your problem pal

i dont have a problem pal,

[Juddy Casper]

How long exactly have you flown a Gos?

John

Caught any chickens lately John:yawinkle::lol::lol::lol:

[Juddy Casper]

As did mine but I would never forget the fun I had and indeed still have with a good Harris.

John
How many chickens did it mug:yawinkle::lol::lol::lol:

[Juddy Casper]

A harrishawk will not have the speed to fly down a mature pheasant in level flight when flown from the fist (not taken on the rise or from a tree). Early season pheasant maybe but not late winter. They will follow and kill on the put in. If they had the speed to fly one down in level flight no one would bother with the goshawk.

OF.

ps Yes even when the harris is "superfit", it won't have the speed.

Spot on Jim i had a realy fit one she had **** loads of pheasants which at the time i said she caught but having flown a gos and been in the company of some very good ones i now realise they were all mugged
Jay

[Stalker]

I was just wondering if any of you try unicintus unicintus subspecies ?
I have flow male of this subspecies and he was 510g, I have heard they r the smallest harris hawks available. What was more interesting for me, he was lot faster than other male that I had at the same time, the other one was superior. I have fly them both on california quails in Canada, and the smaller one was faster even so he was less fit.

I have noticed he was also slightly differently build, shorter wings and bigger foots. He had same foots as my friends sonoran (800g).

Have any of you guys have any info about what is they main prey in Peru ?
Is there a chance that they are made by nature to hunt on birds, or they r just catching small rodents ?

Maybe one of you already try em on pheasants ? Yes they r small, but hey they have huge foots and they surely can handle holding even the cook.

[Harrisii]

welcome to the forum.

you may want to try asKing these questions, (which are common) in the harris hawk section.
there you will find better answers as this is not the right Place.
this is the section for :
upourownarseatpheasants.com



i had a realy fit one she had **** loads of pheasants which at the time i said she caught but having flown a gos and been in the company of some very good ones i now realise they were all mugged
Jay


oh the converted?



do you have GOSHAWKS WHERE YOU ARE??
ARE THEY FINNISH AND DO THE FLY FROM THE FIST AT PHEASANT??

OH MAN!

[Stalker]

Thank you for welcome :)

I have sleepless night, and I just remind my self this rocket harris subspecies.

Sure we have a lot of polish goshawks here, and who will bother catching pheasant with them :) I do prefer roe dear as main prey.

[Spider]

I have hunted with both males and female harrises and have found both to be very succesfull at hunting feather weather it be duck or pheasant, however most of which will outfly a harris in level flight so a stealthy approuch is always a good idea to try and catch it off gaurd, at least until your bird is confident at takin that sort of game. only thing with cick pheasants is that they have large spurs on their legs which can cause some damage so always best to be careful when making in for you and the bird m8

[Dave G]

my harris a male catches pheasant and if he missis he will fly 500 yrds easy to fly them down and have another shot ? he flew a cock pheasant the other day which was missed but the cock pheasant got up and landed in the middle of a horthorn bush well my male got up and went straight up and in and got hold of the pheasant it wasnt till they both hit the deck it got away lol but he caught a hen after that

[Jastreb]

They are the most difficult, killing machine, throw fits, catch everything in sight, mid air for fun etc etc etc ------Usual quotes.

Lots of people in Croatia are saying the same thing and never even seen one on TV!!!!!

100%



They will only mid air game if VERY FIT, and the vast majority aren't. They are no more a killing machine than any other hawk.

ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THE BEST POSTS I READ FOR A WHILE!

Lots of people are talking about mid airs but truly they never seen one!

BTW I always enjoyed HHs in their own stile :supz:

Cheers Viktor