Why Bother!

[Blaze]

I met a lad a few week ago whilst i was out manning my bird....He was also out with a harris doing lure work.....I got talking to him and iv had a couple of days out with him.......He phoned me today and said that he was getting rid of the bird and getting a new one......When asked why he replied...Its Not Rewarding Me....The lad is a bit of a messer really...He hardley flies it through the week and takes it out hunting on a weekend if he can be arsed.........What a complete pric...He dosent understand that the bird isnt fit enough....The bird tries but just hasnt the fitness/strength to catch the quarry.....He mainly feeds it on chikcs which dosent help...But he's adamant that its the bird thats not good enough....Even though i tried educating him.....Well i mcan say i wont be enteraining this pric again....So theres gona be another harris sat in his shed rotting away.....Why Are People So ***ing Thick!

[MickeyDredd]

oh oh, here we go again :rolleyes:

[Kanati]

any idea what bird hes going to look for next? If a harris doesnt rewards him ( i assume he means by catching bunnies etc..) what will? I guess he could splash out on a Gos and watch it fly away (with any luck..as far as the bird is concerned) when he gets it wrong. You are right...just leave him to it, if he cant be shown the errors of his ways... what can you do!

[Blaze]

any idea what bird hes going to look for next? If a harris doesnt rewards him ( i assume he means by catching bunnies etc..) what will? I guess he could splash out of a Gos and watch it fly away (with any luck..as far as the bird is concerned) when he gets it wrong. You are right...just leave him to it, if he cant be shown the errors of his ways... what can you do!
He wants another harris!....His is a bad un....You get good ones and bad ones you know.....Il just have to hope my next one is a good one!.......What a tit:x

[Pitbull]

all these years of people promoting the HH as being the best bird to have its "EASY" The HH is its own worst enemy

[Kanati]

all these years of people promoting the HH as being the best bird to have its "EASY" The HH is its own worst enemy

it can be very easy to get them to fly to the glove..it will do that all day while its fatter then a block of lard...but get it to hunt well is where the 'easy' turns to difficult

[Heike]

In all my years of training all types of animals dogs birds etc, i have never found a bad one, only bad owners.:mad:

[PeregrinesUK]

why is it that weve all heard this before... makes me sick to think of all the harris hawks locked up in sheds rotting away a harris may often be easy to initially train to the fist but getting the going can be very difficult especially if you can not provide the right quarry and these t*ssers just give up but what can you do british falconry enjoys a freedom not many countries enjoy in that we can go and but a hawk with out any formal training yes the breeder have a duty of care to the animals but not all care i guess this type of **** is what we get for our fredom.

[Tr1gger]

it can be very easy to get them to fly to the glove..it will do that all day while its fatter then a block of lard...but get it to hunt well is where the 'easy' turns to difficult

I agree. Any bird is only as good as the work u put into it. Why is this sort fo thing happening more and more. *****s that are getting BOP cause thier hard and smart it makes me sick

[Osiris]

Bloody sick - i hate people like that. He must be another total nonce not knowing enough then getting his bird without training himself up beforehand. It makes me really upset when people do this. Makes me wanna scream!!!!!!!!!!

Give me his address and i will sort him out!! and i will take his harris!!

[Pitbull]

Bloody sick - i hate people like that. He must be another total nonce not knowing enough then getting his bird without training himself up beforehand. It makes me really upset when people do this. Makes me wanna scream!!!!!!!!!!

Give me his address and i will sort him out!! and i will take his harris!!

bloody hell if you did that to all of them out there you would have some collection:lol:

[Barbary Boy]

all these years of people promoting the HH as being the best bird to have its "EASY" The HH is its own worst enemy
hear hear!

[Osiris]

well i might just do that :D:D:D

set up a business of my own for unwanted BOPs!!

[NewBird]

I agree. Any bird is only as good as the work u put into it. Why is this sort fo thing happening more and more. *****s that are getting BOP cause thier hard and smart it makes me sick

Believe me its not just BOPs ... the number of 'problem' horses with novice owners I come across !
NewBird

[Tr1gger]

bloody hell if you did that to all of them out there you would have some collection:lol:

Plz dont get him started on the birds he wants :lol:

There wouldnt be enough breeders out there :) aint that right Osiris?

[Osiris]

Believe me its not just BOPs ... the number of 'problem' horses with novice owners I come across !
NewBird

V.True! Its real sickening. Horses, Dogs, Cats, BOPs etc. that are unwanted. dogs thrown out on streets. BOPs in some cases set free!!

[Barbary Boy]

why is it that weve all heard this before... makes me sick to think of all the harris hawks locked up in sheds rotting away a harris may often be easy to initially train to the fist but getting the going can be very difficult especially if you can not provide the right quarry and these t*ssers just give up but what can you do british falconry enjoys a freedom not many countries enjoy in that we can go and but a hawk with out any formal training yes the breeder have a duty of care to the animals but not all care i guess this type of **** is what we get for our fredom.
totally agree with you," peregrines uk" but its this openness and freedom that will eventually "do" for us all! to many unregulated falconers doing their own thing! were all doomed and i dont think the end is that far away, weill only have ourselves to blame, but i really dont know what the answer is? got some ideas but there a bit contraversial.

[Tr1gger]

BOPs in some cases set free!!

They are just pratts that cant get rid of thier birds quick enough. Could give them a right thump aswell ****ing idiots

[Debbie]

In all my years of training all types of animals dogs birds etc, i have never found a bad one, only bad owners.:mad:

Spot on Heike - I could not agree more no such thing as a hopeless case just an ignorant owner.

Debbs xx

[Osiris]

Yep :supz: thats always the case with any animal. Which is really sad. Owners that cant be bothered! Something should b done!

[Blaze]

Spot on Heike - I could not agree more no such thing as a hopeless case just an ignorant owner.

Debbs xx
Exactly!............

[Debbie]

Well i mcan say i wont be enteraining this pric again....So theres gona be another harris sat in his shed rotting away.....Why Are People So ***ing Thick!

Blaze I know you want to kill this idiot and right now there is a longish line forming behind you ;-)

But hang about and ensure that he sells the bird to someone who knows what he is doing after all you are kind of the birds appointed guardian angel now whether you like it or not and this bird has done nothing wrong and needs as much support and help as possible.

Debbs xx

[Osiris]

Blaze I know you want to kill this idiot and right now there is a longish line forming behind you ;-)

But hang about and ensure that he sells the bird to someone who knows what he is doing after all you are kind of the birds appointed guardian angel now whether you like it or not and this bird has done nothing wrong and needs as much support and help as possible.

Debbs xx

If i had the space etc. i would buy the poor harris. If i had the money etc. i would set my own business up and take in unwanted BOPs. Infact i might look into it, since this is happening more and more nowadays!!

[Pitbull]

If i had the space etc. i would buy the poor harris. If i had the money etc. i would set my own business up and take in unwanted BOPs. Infact i might look into it, since this is happening more and more nowadays!!

oh no not another bloody centre He he he he :lol:

[Osiris]

oh no not another bloody centre He he he he :lol:

Lol m8 - not a center intirely!! :D

[Blaze]

I just want everyone to know that.....I have only been out twice with this tit.....He always trys to educate me when he phones....I think alot of it is when he hears of my bird and others killing regulary.......He gets jealous n thinks its the birds fault.......
.I AM HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM EVER AGAIN!....

[Tr1gger]

I just want everyone to know that.....I have only been out twice with this tit.....He always trys to educate me when he phones....I think alot of it is when he hears of my bird and others killing regulary.......He gets jealous n thinks its the birds fault.......
.I AM HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM EVER AGAIN!....

****ing right m8 avoid them. Ppl like that are not worth the effort

[Debbie]

****ing right m8 avoid them. Ppl like that are not worth the effort

Exactly the people are lower than scum well thats an insult to scum lol

But as you know more than most Trigger the Bird is worth the effort and is worth putting our anger aside to ensure not another bird is damaged beyond repair.

Debbs xx

[Osiris]

Exactly the people are lower than scum well thats an insult to scum lol

But as you know more than most Trigger the Bird is worth the effort and is worth putting our anger aside to ensure not another bird is damaged beyond repair.

Debbs xx

Nice one debs. Level minded as always :D

[Pitbull]

Exactly the people are lower than scum well thats an insult to scum lol

But as you know more than most Trigger the Bird is worth the effort and is worth putting our anger aside to ensure not another bird is damaged beyond repair.

Debbs xx

this isnt the same debbie that said last night that we should be more patient and less judgemental or words to that effect Hehehehehe:lol:

[Debbie]

I just want everyone to know that.....I have only been out twice with this tit.....He always trys to educate me when he phones....I think alot of it is when he hears of my bird and others killing regulary.......He gets jealous n thinks its the birds fault.......
.I AM HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM EVER AGAIN!....


Okay hunny I know what your saying. But the bird still has to find a new home and by what you have said about this personage he has not got a clue so may appreciate a help in rehoming such a useless untrainable pathetic excuse for a bird""""" in his eyes """""":-(.

If you don't want to get involved okay - then give him my number and I will happily call him or get him to call me. But heaven help you if you call me at 3am doing farmyard animal noises. One mate who does this already is more than enough lol

It is always nice to turn a bad situation around and make it come good.

I am up Nottinghamshire before xmas fingers crossed so your not alot further to sort a pick up and then delivery to a new home. PM me the offer of help is there and I will pay the petrol etc Rehomed a nice Harris the other week did a pick up from Wales to a new home in Oxford one happy little birdy hs a nice knowledgeable and understanding home.

I agree it is always Harris Hawks I never seem to help in rehoming anything else apart from Fish but thats another of the pies I have my finger stuck in. And had 12 rabbits the other week all sorted now ;-)

Debbs xxx

[Debbie]

this isnt the same debbie that said last night that we should be more patient and less judgemental or words to that effect Hehehehehe:lol:

Pitbull darling yeah it is me xxxxxxxxx

And you guys do listen when us girlies speak I am impressed hee hee hee

Last night was more about personally aimed attacks on people on this forum.

And I am a very patient person you have to be with some of the jobs I have had to do but I still boil passionatley under the surface and want to throttle people ;-)

Debbs xx

[Blaze]

Il phone him tomorrow......And find out what his plans are for the bird....If he dosent know of some one to take it il mention what you have said to him if he agrees il give you his num or il give him yours........He's that type that thinks he knows best!....Il let you know once iv spoken to him:lol:

[Debbie]

Il phone him tomorrow......And find out what his plans are for the bird....If he dosent know of some one to take it il mention what you have said to him if he agrees il give you his num or il give him yours........He's that type that thinks he knows best!....Il let you know once iv spoken to him:lol:

Wonderful your a treasure

Debbs xxx

[Crash]

Sounds like you lads and lassies could benefit from some type of falconry regulation. Now, I don't like the government getting involved but there are both advantages and disadvantages. We still have people that get their license that should never have one but the numbers are low. Basically if we (fellow falconers) come across a "bloke" that is not willing to take advice then he is never "invited" to associate with the group. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid. On the other hand we have govmt. officials that are responsible for regulating the sport but yet have absolutely no clue. So what's a mother to do?

[Afshimo]

Just bein nosey but whats the guys first name? I mite know him and if I do tell him I want my glove bk lol. He nicked my first glove, a ben long double. Couldnt get hold of him so...grr :evil: PM me if u want, but I'd like to find out how much dosh he made on it lol. I held a steppe on it, first glove I ever owned... sniff sniff!

[Stephen]

hope you get him sorted out blaze dont like hearing about birds being mistreated not the birds fault hes a dick!
there is no such thing as a bad bird only bad habits that have been trained in to them

[Blaze]

The lad he does feed the bird and looks after it to a certain extent.......He just dosent seem to understand....For the bird to be able to hunt succesfully its needs to be fit and flown regularly...He takes it out everyday one week then the following couple of weeks leaves it locked up!........Then he expects it to kill everything in sight

[Blaze]

Just bein nosey but whats the guys first name? I mite know him and if I do tell him I want my glove bk lol. He nicked my first glove, a ben long double. Couldnt get hold of him so...grr :evil: PM me if u want, but I'd like to find out how much dosh he made on it lol. I held a steppe on it, first glove I ever owned... sniff sniff!
Pm'd you Hannah!........

[Stephen]

we are training a young fhh for someone just now flys at 2lb 3 1/2oz not had anything yet had her out yesterday and she chased lots just could not connect.
And she is not fit only been out for two weeks but the speed of her is **** hot she is alot faster than mine after a few more weeks with us she will be a good bird.
hope this bird your talking about gets the same chance to show what she is made of.

[Pitbull]

what do you mean by training for someone else excuse my ignorance i thought they should be training it no.

[Stephen]

my friend and me have have more time to train and get her fit for another friend

[Pitbull]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:rolleyes:

[Stephen]

what birds you got pitbull?

[HunterPaul]

lets not forget that this dick when he manages to offload this poore f...ed up creature ...he is in the market for another to mistreat....

[Blaze]

Exactly.......Thats why i dont want anything to do with him!

[HunterPaul]

personally id have to tell him what a ******** he actually is, as he is not prepared to take advice and is too lazy to learn how to look after his bird prtoperly...but then id be acused of being elitist and having anger management problems .... again this really wouldnt bother me and id still go ahead with my original plan and let him know in no uncertain terms exactly what i thought of him ...then hed give me a wide berth...and i wouldnt have to witness yet another bird hit the scrapheap....

[Mick]

blaze mate has he got rid of the bird yet? if not find out what e wants for it and i might take it off him let me know mick

[North East Harris Hawker]

good rant this thread, i recon the most shameful thing is .. that there will be someone who sells him a bird in the first place.
Once someone has a bee in their bonnet then you will not be able to stop them buying a bird. whilst i disagree with this type of person even owning a bird the only suggestion i could make would be for the individaul concerned to get hold of a ready trained bird that would perform immediately.
If this was the case then strictly speaking he could hardly call himself a falconer, but then i think we already know that he isnt one!
patience... theres a word!

[Hells99]

oh no not another bloody centre He he he he :lol:

Ok, but some of them do really good jobs with the poor little sods handed over to them by spoiled brats (adult as well as child!). Before deriding these centres, you should maybe look at a good one that really does care about the welfare of the birds they keep and feed for life relying on raising their own funds as a charity.

It's all too easy to criticise but someone's got to bear the cost of these moron's impulse purchases and stretch the birds to the best of their abilities so that they can unlearn all the bad things that have happened to them.

Helen

[Osiris]

Ok, but some of them do really good jobs with the poor little sods handed over to them by spoiled brats (adult as well as child!). Before deriding these centres, you should maybe look at a good one that really does care about the welfare of the birds they keep and feed for life relying on raising their own funds as a charity.

It's all too easy to criticise but someone's got to bear the cost of these moron's impulse purchases and stretch the birds to the best of their abilities so that they can unlearn all the bad things that have happened to them.

Helen

Good point Helen but if you read the previous and forwarding posts after P_Bs quote, he was (i think) only joking!! :D

[Blaze]

I phoned the lad today.....He says he's found somebody who wants the harris for breeding....He's getting £150 for her..........But he's also found someone in i think he said cheshire thats got some fhh's for £200....Its a lost cause!.....But their must be breeders out there desperate to sell their young harris hawks....£200 for a 05 female is pretty cheap!

[Pitbull]

Ok, but some of them do really good jobs with the poor little sods handed over to them by spoiled brats (adult as well as child!). Before deriding these centres, you should maybe look at a good one that really does care about the welfare of the birds they keep and feed for life relying on raising their own funds as a charity.

It's all too easy to criticise but someone's got to bear the cost of these moron's impulse purchases and stretch the birds to the best of their abilities so that they can unlearn all the bad things that have happened to them.

Helen

yeah only joking.
There poping up everywhere and some dissappearing just as fast.
Theres alot of good ones out there. where the money is spent on the birds, not the people

[Osiris]

yeah only joking.
where the money is spent on the birds, not the people

Yep - the way those type of centers should be :D

[Pitbull]

some of the best HH out there are pass on. With the xtra work having to be put into them

[GM090158]

I phoned the lad today.....He says he's found somebody who wants the harris for breeding....He's getting £150 for her..........But he's also found someone in i think he said cheshire thats got some fhh's for £200....Its a lost cause!.....But their must be breeders out there desperate to sell their young harris hawks....£200 for a 05 female is pretty cheap!

Mmm, there certainly appears to be too many back yard breeders who do not care where the birds end up, although there is equally as many good small breeders, perhaps it is the breeders that should be licenced to produce and sell birds!:idea:

[Blaze]

Im not knocking breeders!.......Just thought the price was strange.....Females are normally around £350 mark

[Stephen]

its a lot cheaper for birds down south i paid £400 for my female
that was 4 years ago right enough

[Maxwell]

That's the problem today...

If you've had to work hard for something you respect it and treasure it, and at £200 (even £400) sadly it's an impulse buy for some... Does he not realise he's dealing with a living thing?

Ultimately you'll get out what you put in - and I guess we need to hope this guy haplessly drifts into something where spending his money can by him some more happiness...

[HunterPaul]

That's the problem today...

If you've had to work hard for something you respect it and treasure it, and at £200 (even £400) sadly it's an impulse buy for some... Does he not realise he's dealing with a living thing?

Ultimately you'll get out what you put in - and I guess we need to hope this guy haplessly drifts into something where spending his money can by him some more happiness...
im hoping he drifts into a ******* bus doing at least 60 mph....

[GDN]

HH have been getting steadly cheaper for years now as we all know.

It always makes me sad when i hear stories like this. I have met quite a few people like this clown. I have been tempted to sometimes to take on 1 of these so called bad useless HH and put some serious time in to it. Get it fit not just physically but mentally as well. Once i have got it going well to invite out the previous owner and say "so what was the problem again" when he is watching the bird knocking it's guts out while it is giving 100% and catching things left right and centre. In my opinion all HH start of good when they come out of the aviary. It is up to us to work with them and make them very good at least.

I have met people who have asked me to get them a HH. When i ask why do you want a HH the answer i get is because they are easy to fly. My response is Bye but the brain is screaming YOU COMPLETE F*CKEN IDIOT DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TAKING ON YOU F*CKEN USELESS PIECE OF **** F*CKER etc etc etc

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

I agree with loads of whats being said on this subject. I have currently two Harris' that came to me because of complete idiots. But it aint just Harris hawks, you would not believe the states people get Eagles into. Ive had to handle some complete psychos in the past. To a degree you can help them, but they remember for such alot longer in my experience. For example a guy used to have a female eagle he kept razor sharp and fly at anything. Problem was it was in enclosed terain and infrequently managed too kill. So in the end every time she missed she would turn and physically come at the handler. When he finally admitted defeat seven years later, he knew he shouldnt have kept her. But he had still knowingly mucked her up. This incidently was his second bird.

[Blaze]

Brave man to keep that for seven years!........An idiot yeh....But brave!

[LongVVing]

On the subject of eagles a number of fox hunts are using them to overcome a loop hole in the law according to a local newspaper where one of my flying grounds is. I just have this horrible feeling that there is a disaster waiting in the wings.

I had a Harris off someone who had kept her in a shed for two years, she took alot more time than usual to get her going but apart from being a little aggressive if you walked past her on her bow perch she was a brilliant hunting bird. All the tVVat had to say was "I knew she had it in her" to which I just had to say "Well why the fvck did you keep her locked up in a shed!"

Merry xmas to all!

[StormRider]

I have read right through this thread and am not suprised with what I am reading. I think that most in here can honestly say that they have come across idiots who operate in this manner. Both this guy and his breeder have something to answer for in terms of the current demise of this bird.
This is why I have always advocated the introduction of a legal registration system of all birds and a recordable apprenticeship period of learning whereby you are discluded from even owning a bird until you get through. This type of system will work. It may be a bit costly and time consuming getting into gear, but what does'nt. A system like this will greatly reduce idiots like this.
If you have a system like this then breeder will be unable through law to sell him a bird. He must produce his certificate of competency and be accompanied by his mentor.

A seperate system also for breeders.
I am aware of th new LANTRA exam but this is not legally binding and is only optional. If you dont want to do it then nothing can happen to you. Saying that tho it is a start and you never know it may progress onto bigger and better things.

STU:evil:

[Kentish Falconry]

Blaze M8 there is a way to try and solve this.
If a few of us say put £25.00 each into the kitty and buy the bird off this guy we could then give the bird to one of our less fortunate Forum members who will love and cherish it. It would only take 6 of us to acheive this.

Now the bad part as far as your concerned, keep in touch with the idiot invite him out hunting with you and teach him a thing or two about management this way he will lean how to care and hunt with his next bird properly. I know he is about to buy another bird but if you can get him to tag along with you he might just take the easy option and be happy just hunting with you and your bird, if nothing else he just might learn a thing or 2 from you. I know he seems to think he knows it all but if you show him how it's really done he might learn something and and then think about what he is doing. Just take him under your wing and see how it goes.
When this type of situation arrises I for one just can't sit back and watch it happening and in some ways I feel partly responsible. When HH first became available in the UK in the late 70's I bought one it cost me nearly £3000.00, it was a great bird and yes it went into a breeding project, thats why I feel partly responsible, we never dreamed just how easy it would be to breed them and now anyone with the slightest idea of what they are doing is breeding them. It also pains me to admit that StormRider has a point when he talks about bringing in regulations to controll Falconers in the UK. I totally oppose any further regulations for Falconry but it would make it easier to deal with a case like this if we had regs.
My £25.00 is on the desk in front of me who else is willing to put a few measely quid into sorting this mess. We can just send our donations to Blaze and let him deal with it.

[PeelsBells]

Id put £25 down and go and knock some sence into the p**ck.
I wish they would bring coursing back and let the dogging lads do what they do best, as the ban is upon us falconry will be brough to its knees. You will find the birds will change hands alot more and the **** ones will be put up for breeding for an easy £.Ive run dogs most of my life and kept my whippet till he past away.But now we will have there problems past on to falconry.
Falconry is a great sport and takes years to learn as i am finding out, but if you buy a bird keep it and live with your mistakes and turn the bird around its not hard and there is enough information on here and help to get any bird through the bad times. Blade tell this ***** if he wants i will take the bird of him for a season and give him back a bird which has its head screwed on and looks the part as well as i'll put money on he is feeding it sh** and doesnt give a f88k.

[StormRider]

My £25 is here also. Cracking idea Terry. I wouldnt have the time at the moment though to assit in any training as Im a bit of a distance away. But Ill help as much as I can.
STU
(Just checking I type £25 and not £250)Fwhoo

[DeathFromAbove]

*cough*..******...*cough* ............just clearing my throat.

:gib:

[Kentish Falconry]

My £25 is here also. Cracking idea Terry. I wouldnt have the time at the moment though to assit in any training as Im a bit of a distance away. But Ill help as much as I can.
STU
(Just checking I type £25 and not £250)Fwhoo

Come on then Guys thats £75.00 we are half way there already just 3 more of us and we are up and running and we can make one Forum member a happy Falconer for Xmas
Thanks Stu and Andy.
Terry

[DeathFromAbove]

if i had 25 quid spare mate i'd def donate it to save the bird but unfortunately things are already tight as it is for xmas at moment.... bills don't stop just cos it's xmas unfortunately. altho if there's any other way i can help i will.

[Tom OGrady]

[QUOTE=Blaze]I met a lad a few week ago whilst i was out manning my bird....He was also out with a harris doing lure work.....I got talking to him and iv had a couple of days out with him.......He phoned me today and said that he was getting rid of the bird and getting a new one......When asked why he replied...Its Not Rewarding Me....The lad is a bit of a messer really...He hardley flies it through the week and takes it out hunting on a weekend if he can be arsed.........What a complete pric...He dosent understand that the bird isnt fit enough....The bird tries but just hasnt the fitness/strength to catch the quarry.....He mainly feeds it on chikcs which dosent help...But he's adamant that its the bird thats not good enough....Even though i tried educating him.....Well i mcan say i wont be enteraining this pric again....So theres gona be another harris sat in his shed rotting away.....Why Are People So ***ing Thick![/QUO
INTERESTING READING MATE
In the years i have practiced falconry i have heard a simular story about many
not so dedicated falconers.Maybe the guy in your story would more fit in to another type of hunting maybe shooting or fishing e.c.t.But i think he would find probably the same outcome as what you put in to your sport is what you get out.I wonder what do people on the forum think about the system they have in America with the aprenticeship for people who think they wish to become a falconer.They have a much tougher system were you cant just go out and buy any bird you want. There is legislation on the birds you are allowed to keep and you also need a sponser.I know a American falconer who thinks the legislation there is too tough .Iwonder if a simular system would work well in this country would this weed out many of the people who would not make dedicated falconers as the majority of us are.
REGARDS TOM:yawinkle:

[BrightEyes]

personaly i do think that this is a bad idea, although i do understand where you are coming from with the welfare of the bird is concerned,
but if this bird is bought and donated to some one on the forum who can't afford one, then how they going to maintain this bird, housing,equipment..vets, even food.

my suggestion would be to offer the chap help in advertising his bird, and finding it a proper handler

[Achilles]

You have to be applauded on your efforts to rescue this bird. The last estimate by DEFRA in 2002 was that there were 11,000 Harris Hawks being flown in the UK.

Osiris. I think you are going to need an enormous rescue centre!

[Moses]

blaze is this someone we know from here mate a member

[MickeyDredd]

blaze is this someone we know from here mate a member

He sounds like a member but not necessarily of the forum :lol: :lol:

[Blaze]

The bird was sold a couple of weeks ago aparently to someone for breeding...And guess what he has another fhh this years bird!...Which he got the day after he sold his other...He does feed them even though its mainly chick..He is just lazy then blames it on the bird....No Moses he isnt a member of the forum

[The Ninja]

This is the type of thing that ****es off the more experienced folk who end up being a bit tougher on the newbies. It would be more understandable if the lad tried it then found out that the sport wasn't for him as opposed to being bored with the bird.

[StormRider]

Achiles- 11,000 harris hawks. I wonder what that is as a percentage of people participating in falconry. In fact, does any one know of any figures which suggests the numbers of falconers we have within the UK?

[Sparrow Hawker]

Personally I think this is where the DOE as it was then, made a mistake by taking Harris's and other non native species off of the list, only a rough estimate can be given to how many practising falconers there are within the UK.

I heard the number of Harris's between 10,000 to 15,000 banded about, was mentioned in the Hunting report by Lord Burns! I think they took into account that many falconers owned more than one harris!

HH

[Quote, http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/hunting/transcripts/1_session_d.htmA] If we look at falconry, I have appended some tables giving details of the falcon season and the types of prey taken by different species of falcons and hawks, and estimated the numbers killed per season by a hawk or falcon, working full-time at it. The problem is that it is very difficult to estimate the number of people involved in falconry - there are no clear statistics. I attach a letter from Defra who say that they had 2,100 falconers registered in the UK, who hold roughly 6,600 Schedule 4 birds. However, there are many species that are not listed on Schedule 4 and so there is no record of them. The overall best estimate I can come up with is that there are between 2,000 and 4,000 falconers who hunt live prey in Britain. Equally, it is hard to work out how many animals are killed by falconers. Again, the only records are for the number of birds killed under licences issued under the Wildlife & Countryside Act, 1981. There are various figures in the appended letter. I make the point that in relation to the number of those target species, the number killed is extremely small.

[Quote, http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/hunting/transcripts/1_session_d.htmA] number of other species taken by falcons are the ones you do not have to register, and things like corbies, game, rabbits and hares are unrecorded. The most common bird of prey used to hunt live quarry in Britain is the Harris's hawk, and the best estimate we can come up with is that there are probably about 11,000 in Britain, half of which are used to hunt mainly rabbits, in a short season extending from September to February. The best estimate we can come up with is that a couple of rabbits are killed on average by these hawks, so hunting with Harris's hawks makes at best a marginal contribution to controlling species such as rabbits.

[BHawk]

i think all of you are right, the forum should try some sort of charity campaign to get money for a centre, which could also be a public attraction to gain more money, and branch out across the uk, surely there are enough falconers out there willing to donate the slightest bit to a centre for the welfare of hawks abandoned by *****s like this, then training them in proper care could make new falconry centres/ or falconry training centres nationwide benefitting newcomers to the sport with proper training or just to educate the public as to the importance of these birds!

[Barbary Boy]

surely there are enough centers out there allready full of 2nd hand and cast off 3rd hand birds run by *****s allready?

[Shannor]

I wonder what do people on the forum think about the system they have in America with the aprenticeship for people who think they wish to become a falconer.They have a much tougher system were you cant just go out and buy any bird you want. There is legislation on the birds you are allowed to keep and you also need a sponser.I know a American falconer who thinks the legislation there is too tough .Iwonder if a simular system would work well in this country would this weed out many of the people who would not make dedicated falconers as the majority of us are.
REGARDS TOM:yawinkle:

I actually like the idea of the apprenticeship. It means people don't go into it without realising the work that's involved in keeping birds fit and healthy. Sure, it takes a little longer to get somewhere, but if you only get out what you put in... you're bound to get a lot more out of the apprenticeship system. I'm not sure whether it would work elsewhere, but it'd be a good idea to give it a try, I think. I'm not a falconer yet, but the idea of spending two years as an apprentice to a general or master falconer seems brilliant to me. Not only would I learn a lot, I'd have a friend with the same passion for BOPs :)

[Moses]

He sounds like a member but not necessarily of the forum :lol: :lol:

lol cheers, sounded like a lad we know here :D


no worries mickey and blaze

[Talon]

I know you said the birds been sold now .but buying it of him by raising
money is only going to put money back in is pocket to buy a nother bird.which is going to be no better of than the last one.
so the problems not solved.its just being passed on to the next poor bird.
theres now real way around it.as hes allready bought another as you have said.this prob will keep going on as long as any tom (dick ) or harry can just
go out and buy a bird as easy as that..?

[Takajo]

Any Tom, ***** or Harry can buy a hawk in Japan as well, but because the cost is through the roof here, it deters the uncommitted. I say make trapping of domestic wild birds legal for licensed falconers so non-native species aren't let loose by dimwits with no conviction...

[Afshimo]

falconer's should put their names down if they have the time, space and maybe money to spend time, train and up and sell on birds like these. Trust me, some centre's make the birds worse then when the came. If dedicated falconer's were willing to recieve free birds, spend the time and maybe money to get them suitable for beginner's to learn off, PROPER centre's to use in displays, go into breeding or remian with the falconer, then all the harrris hawks and other birds *****s get their hands on. It's good for experiance, will give falconry a few points with the public and maybe government, showing we can co-operate and work to help other birds. It has pro's and cons of course, but its an idea?

[StormRider]

Hannah - the adoption of birds by falconers is already happening, and has done for many years. To be honest this is how some of the centres in the UK have been formed. I take in numerous birds in each year because of stupid owners, etc. They mainly come from the Police and RSPCA. Although I do not offer my services as a professional/expert witness (and I never will), I am led to believe that a lot of these guys do end up in the courts. I have seen a few in the papers myself. Im sorry but the only way to deal with this issue is a registration scheme for apprentices with a certificate of competency. If you've got a certificate then you can purchase, keep, train and hunt a bird.
It just seems like common sense to me.
STU

[Pitbull]

Hannah - the adoption of birds by falconers is already happening, and has done for many years. To be honest this is how some of the centres in the UK have been formed. I take in numerous birds in each year because of stupid owners, etc. They mainly come from the Police and RSPCA. Although I do not offer my services as a professional/expert witness (and I never will), I am led to believe that a lot of these guys do end up in the courts. I have seen a few in the papers myself. Im sorry but the only way to deal with this issue is a registration scheme for apprentices with a certificate of competency. If you've got a certificate then you can purchase, keep, train and hunt a bird.
It just seems like common sense to me.
STU

i think if there where any registrations it should cover the whole spectrum from breeder down.
But as in dogs all you have to do is look at the rescue kennels to see that this will never happen. if they wont do it for the millions of dogs what chance is there for falconry.
money is always gonna be the issue. out price the birds will reduce the amount of people that can obtain them but then it should not be an elitest sport for those that can afford.
If we reduced the variety available this may be an answer, but whilst we are able to get one bird then fancy getting another and passing on the first then seeing something else later on again and continuing the cycle then i cant see anything stopping the existing problems that we see.

[StormRider]

I also think that a registration scheme for all birds, breeders, etc should exist. By increasing the price of birds doesnt make it elitist though. I know of many working class people who ride and own horses. A horse costs so much more than some of these birds we buy. If someone is serious enough to want to do what we do then they will makes attempts to save enough money for the breed they want whilst going through their apprenticeship. You cant be classed as an elitist just because you want to learn.
One thing is for certain: you just have to look at threads like this one to see that we really do care and want to do something. Some of us may put it across differently but we all care about the same thing - our birds.
STU

[Harrisii]

In all my years of training all types of animals dogs birds etc, i have never found a bad one, only bad owners.:mad:

spot on H.

harrises are awesome birds with the right application. this bird which "doesent reward" him would be easily switched on and could well be a great bird with the right handler and training. of that there is no doubt.
all harrises have the potential to become great hunting birds if they are handled right and pushed and kept fit.
ive seen harrises comming from completely unhunted pairs and becoming real good birds. its in all harrises to be great birds but if they are going to ********s like this fella then they will not shake off the reputation they have been associated with.
rewarding?? he should take a good look at himself, he aint rewarding the bird by keeping it cooped up and not pushing it and getting it fit. lets just hope this bird gets a good owner who will get it going and make a success of it. And, lets hope he has a financial breakdown and cannot afford another to fill the space in his aviary. Stories like this are all too common and make me ill.

[Peregrine960]

falconer's should put their names down if they have the time, space and maybe money to spend time, train and up and sell on birds like these. Trust me, some centre's make the birds worse then when the came. If dedicated falconer's were willing to recieve free birds, spend the time and maybe money to get them suitable for beginner's to learn off, PROPER centre's to use in displays, go into breeding or remian with the falconer, then all the harrris hawks and other birds *****s get their hands on. It's good for experiance, will give falconry a few points with the public and maybe government, showing we can co-operate and work to help other birds. It has pro's and cons of course, but its an idea?

Apprentice program of some sort is needed (BIG TIME)Whats the point in training a bop then giveing it to some newby ? They have learned nothing about the sport of falconry or how to train and give proper care /houseing/make equipment ect.ect.ect.