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As The Falcon Her Bells
27-11-2005, 07:29 PM
This is a thread I been wanting to start for a while, I have a feeling this will be a long start, but bear with me please, I do have a point somewhere...
It is a lot on here about new commers and how they should ore should not be keeping/training/flying etc. their birds.
One quite importent point but that I never come across before is their/our attitude.
Its been a general fear in the air for a while expecially since the "hunting with dogs" bann, is falconry next?
The people who at the end of the day will decide that, is the generall public, if it would come to a vote, then it is not the falconers (as we are such a miniority) ore the activists/antis (as they are also a miniority) but the "rest of the UK" who will decide.
Now, one of the problems is; there is little ore no information out there for the generall public. What they think about falconry will probably be decided first time they ever come in conntact with a person who for what ever reason has a bird on his hand.
If this is at a falconry centre ore out in a field it does not matter, first impression will be formed there and then and you will have a person who will vote either for ore against falconry.
We sort of tuched similar topics on for example "what we wear out hawking".
I said it earlier and I say it again, a lot of falconers (unfortenatly often older and more experianced ones) is suffering from a serious attitude problem. If I got a pound everytime I meet an arrogant basterd with a bird in a box ore on the hand ore at home I would be better off then I am breeding birds.
Now, if a falconer is arrogant to another falconer well, thats not a big deal, but how do we behave towards people when we are out hunting ore doing a bird of prey display?
Clothes is not more importent then attitude, wearing a happy and friendly face is more importent then wearing clean trousers. I do not think we should run around in ties and moleskinns and look overly posh as it is to close to the real reason why the "normal people" (not the antis) voted agains fox hunting, class difference.

How many of you have not been out hunting, crossing a public foot path and crashing in to ramblers oohing and ahhing about your bird wanting to stroke it and ask questions?
What should our response be? To many times have I been out with hunting partners who abruptly brush them aside and leave them feeling quite stamped up on.
Also what do displaycentres talk about in their "informative displays"?? And does a "display falconer" know when its time to wrap the job in?
I have done too many bloody displays in my life and can honestly say I could not do it as a living again.
I have lost the good attitude about it.
I think that when I want too beat up the OAP with his own walking stick when he ask me why the birds are thetered around their legs, then its time to leave the job...
If you do not have what it takes to explain and make sure every single person walk out of your centre/display with a GOOD impression and a friendly attitude towards birds of prey AND falconry, dont do it!

I have visited serval BOP displays at country fairs and showes and watched from the outside how the display guy/girl deal with the public and the publics questions AFTER the display, and the arrogance from the "falconer" sometime make me cringe!! If you do not want to do it, DO NOT DO IT!
The same with hunters; poaching, not a good idea, if your bird kill on someone elses land ore kills a domestic duck/chicken in someones garden, how do you deal with it?
I had the experience myself, the farmer seriously wanted to ripp my throat out when my hh was sat in his tree in his garden bobbing her head at his ducks. He had given speciall orders that WE ARE NOT ALOUD ON HIS LAND!!!!
I was trying to apologise and explain I been hunting further up the road and lost her going downhill after a rabbit....towards his farm.
He did not listen, not at first, but after a while he calmed down and started to take notice of what I said. I ended up having a cup of coffe with him and his wife and walked out of the farm with some more hunting lad, but also with a sad story on why he was so anti falconry....
A few years earlier he caught two guys with birds on their hands ferreting without promission on his land. It was not what they where doing but their attitude who made him take an instant disslike to falconers. They had been very arrogant, threatening and abusiv towards him....and they where poaching on his land???!!!
So, all you beginners (and experianced ones) please try to remember, the futere for this sport is in our hands, and how we meet the generall public is very, very importent.......
;)




Simon.Wyatt
27-11-2005, 07:44 PM
you are bang on the money

how ever you will always get good and bad and as in all walks of life but its up to us nice chaps to spread the word and try to rein in the numpties...

Pitbull
27-11-2005, 07:47 PM
but ufortunately not something that ANY qualification will rectify

Excellant thread and well said

Flying High
27-11-2005, 07:53 PM
spot on. i myself run a falconry company and i am sick and tired of talking to people who are against or up set with falconers because of things other falconers have said or in some cases not said to them. I am also sorry to say i have worked for a falconer who thought he was gods gift to falconry and he treated the public as if they where thick as Sh#T

MattSpar
27-11-2005, 08:18 PM
How many of you have not been out hunting, crossing a public foot path and crashing in to ramblers oohing and ahhing about your bird wanting to stroke it and ask questions?
What should our response be?


My own response is always, "Yes, of course you can, and what would you like to know"?

As The Falcon Her Bells
27-11-2005, 08:18 PM
and he treated the public as if they where thick as Sh#T[/quote]
Sorry to say FH but thay are as thick as ****.....:lol:

Flying High
27-11-2005, 08:24 PM
Yes i now but when you speak to them you don't need to make them feel like it. This chap (D~#k He~d) would. i would sometimes cringe at what he was saying.

As The Falcon Her Bells
27-11-2005, 08:29 PM
I know, its quite bad isnt it sometimes......
I think most peoples first (and probably only) experiance of bop's in captivity is at centres.

Pitbull
27-11-2005, 08:32 PM
my friend hates the public so he says but once he starts he just cant stop especially with the kids, they're gob smacked when he shows them how the feather works. When he crumples it up and they go yeah that feather is totally useless, and he then hovers it over a boiling kettle to steam it there faces are a picture.
i personly think its funny
i think he protests too much hehehe:D

Maxwell
27-11-2005, 08:41 PM
We should treat members of the public who enquire after the birds - with a little more respect. Afterall if they have no knowledge - then it is up to us to enlighten them! I am only too happy - if someone shows an interest - to answer any questions.
On the other hand there are some "falconers" who are in the public eye who are in this for the money that the public bring with them!
I am currently thinking of a business who are regularly seen each Saturday in a town centre while Joe Public bring their sticky fingered kids to stroke the owls as they would a cat or dog. The kids don't know better - the "falconer" should and perhaps (in a nice way) explain that it is not acceptable to stroke these birds and explain why!

As The Falcon Her Bells
27-11-2005, 08:47 PM
Yepp you are to right there, I dont think it is anything wrong what so ever in making money of BOP as long as you treat them and the paying people with respect and as long as you somehow benefit the sport of falconry....

Nemesis
27-11-2005, 10:08 PM
not to long ago i was joe public, as were all of us who now keep falcons and hawks if it was not for first seeing them ,and a desire to own and fly these beautiful birds there would not be so many in this country.for us to fly so if some one comes up to me when i am out and wants to se my hawk i am only to pleased to let them have a look . just the other day a lady was so pleased to see my bird she took a photo to send to her husband who loves to see them good pr could save the sport and the enjoyment we all get from flying.good manners cost nothing.

Hells99
27-11-2005, 10:19 PM
So often I see some 'pro' falconers being condescending and rude - the way to win people over to our cause is by being open and friendly. Naturally, some of the questions asked of falconers by the public seem silly (do you have to cook their food?!!!). But we all ask seemingly silly questions when we are seeking knowledge of something we know nothing about. It's only by having those questions answered tolerantly and in a friendly way that people will gain an understanding.

Let's put on our best behaviour and win friends and influence people!:razz:

Helen

HunterPaul
28-11-2005, 10:22 AM
I agree with everything you say...but I also make a big effort to stay away from the public when Im out hunting...I am out there enjoying a day with the bird...and it gets a little difficult sometimes to try to explain that the reason she is sitting in the tree is because she has a great dane and the birds natural predator in the wild etc...and you are on your fifth time of explaining this and she hasnt made tracks, this situation is not a one off it happens a lot.... I deal with the public as part of my job and have a killer smile, and twinkly green eyes....but I can understand why some falconers feel they have to then explain in no uncertain terms that its not an eagle and the dog is annoying the bird so can they please get on with their day.... as I said I do it as a living ...but some members of the public can stretch the patience of a saint....

Hells99
28-11-2005, 11:02 AM
I agree with everything you say...but I also make a big effort to stay away from the public when Im out hunting...I am out there enjoying a day with the bird...and it gets a little difficult sometimes to try to explain that the reason she is sitting in the tree is because she has a great dane and the birds natural predator in the wild etc...and you are on your fifth time of explaining this and she hasnt made tracks, this situation is not a one off it happens a lot.... I deal with the public as part of my job and have a killer smile, and twinkly green eyes....but I can understand why some falconers feel they have to then explain in no uncertain terms that its not an eagle and the dog is annoying the bird so can they please get on with their day.... as I said I do it as a living ...but some members of the public can stretch the patience of a saint....
LOL! Know exactly what you mean! We were at a village fete displaying a few of the non-flying display birds including a EEO and this little Jack Russell squeezed through the wooden barrier (still on it's lead) and the EEO was just bobbing to get ready to jump on it so I jumped between them and stuck my toe up the a**e of the dog.

The owner was this fat loudmouth of a guy and was saying that his little dog could take the EEO no problems. Then I pointed out the size of the feet and talons on the bird and explained that his dog was just the right size for dinner!

Bloke was absolutely appalled and said I should have the bird under control - he was tethered to a block weighing about 14lbs and behing a wooden fence!

GM090158
28-11-2005, 11:19 AM
Got to agree, everyone we speak to or who sees us when we are out with our birds makes a judgement, it will be crucial to have them in favour in the future.

DeathFromAbove
28-11-2005, 11:34 AM
I personally try my best to avoid the public whilst out if i can as it really does my head in when they wander along with their dog off a lead under no control what so ever
.....an example......
I was working the edge of a woodland with kaia following on waiting for the bolted wabbit, suddenly one broke cover out into the open and she was hot on it's tail..... she was about 2 feet from it and gaining when this womans collie mongrel comes charging up the hill at her with owner lagging well behind unable to control her dog, she flew up into the nearest tree missing the rabbit and looking very ****ed off. kaia then mobbed the dog a couple of times as it was jumping up at the tree and barking it's head off, i thought kaia was gonna bind to the dog's head!! and i don't want her taking that agression to friends dogs that hunt with us. When i got there i called her to the fist and spent the next 15 mins stopping this bloody dog jumping around me trying to get at my bird while it's owner tried her best to get her dog back under control but couldn't get hold of it. I love animals and dogs but if the woman wasn;t there i'd have given it the boot. can't understand why people who can't control their dogs walk them off the lead!!!

She was very apologetic and full of questions which i answered with a smile but she could tell that her dog had well ****ed me off. i think i confirmed this when i suggested that she may be better off with an extendor lead or i could borrow her the means to clicker train it, she seemed quite peeved that i didn't think her dog was trained well enough when she left.

Saker-Clive
28-11-2005, 12:23 PM
I've been extremely lucky whilst out with my birds; I have permission to fly on some common land, which is used a great deal by dog walkers and horse riders.
In the 3 years I've been training and flying the birds over there, it never ceases to amaze me how interested 'joe public' are regarding the birds. I've only had a couple of occaisions where I've had words with irresponsible dog owners but the majority either stay at a distance watching, then you can see that they are just itching to get a closr look, so I say would you like to come and see. Depending what bird I'm with at the time, we usually go through the the 'normal' "is it a Kestrel..........or Peregrine?":roll: , then I would tell them with a big grin, "No....he's a Harris hawk, originates from central and south America............................." If they are really interested, I put him up in the trees, give the woman (only the women ;-) ) a glove and get him to fly to her8-) this always impresses, and they go away feeling that they have learned and accomplished something.
I have also been asked if I could take them into various schools etc. but I have to decline, explaining about liability insurance and risk assessments...................................if they are still interested, I usually give them the name of the local raptor centre and tell them that they are geared upfor such talks and displays. A few have been cheeky enough to 'arrange' a time when I'm going to be there and bring a class of youngsters:roll: but that doesnt bother me and as long as they are aware that if any of them got scratched etc. it was down to them and no come backs on me!!