moulting????

[SycoPaff]

I have a question!
do people moult their birds in a free flight aviary, on tether or fly through moult?

[Hawkmaster]

I have done both in the past and free is better and MUCH FASTER!

[BFC 007]

not fair on the birds to keep them tethered without being flown so free flight for me :D

[Tim Laycock]

free loft is faster.

[OutFlying]

Free loft, if p/r then total seclusion, not touched till the moults complete.

OF.

[Flying High]

i have done all three and i prefer to tether

[Hawkmaster]

Why?

[Achilles]

i have done all three and i prefer to tether
You can't just leave it at that. Forum members deserve an explanation behind your preferred method.

[SycoPaff]

Why?
i think i can answer for him! when the bird is on tether moulting it can be slightly slower! but only if it is more stressfull! if your bird is manned well that stress should be non-exsistant! conciquently you can feed your moulting bird on the fist everyday and give a few hours manning evryday and then you dont haveto retrain! thats why i moult on tether anyhoo! steve might say somethin diff!

[OutFlying]

Might be tricky when you want to spend a weekend away or go on holiday. Retraining only takes a couple of weeks, a lot sooner than waiting for a tethered moult.

I think the hawk is a lot healthier flying about than tied down for 5-6 months.

Jim.

[HunterPaul]

free loft...a much happier bird ...when you feed the kind of food the bird needs during the moult to help it moult...high quality ... then sitting that bird on a perch is in my opinion just cruel.... it would be like feeding red bull and steak to you constantly then tying u down...youd be climbing the walls... also the bird should be ultra fit after the season hunting and flying most days... take a look at your dog if its only let out in the garden for a few days without a good run....its going mad.... with a free lofted bird, you can put low and high perches and it can jump around and flap its wings to wear some even if only a little of that frustration off.....I like to leave a radio on all the time so the bird can just hear something going on all the time....

[SycoPaff]

Might be tricky when you want to spend a weekend away or go on holiday. Retraining only takes a couple of weeks, a lot sooner than waiting for a tethered moult.

I think the hawk is a lot healthier flying about than tied down for 5-6 months.

Jim.
i'm thinking more 3-4 months! and i know people that can and are willing 2feed and man my bird (properly) for me!!!

[HunterPaul]

people have a tendancy to let you down and not give the care you personally would ...I know plenty of people that have come home to find their breeding pairdown to just the female as she got hungry after a few missed feeds and a cold snap....

[OutFlying]

Depends on when you finished flying, I finish 1st of feb - no feathers dropped till early April, finished end of August, Feb till August six months.

Could you moult a spar or gos out this way ? And still have it ready feather perfect for the end of August ?

[SycoPaff]

people have a tendancy to let you down and not give the care you personally would ...I know plenty of people that have come home to find their breeding pairdown to just the female as she got hungry after a few missed feeds and a cold snap....
family! they now my bird would be more important that them! and i would KILL them if anything bad happenend!

[SycoPaff]

Depends on when you finished flying, I finish 1st of feb - no feathers dropped till early April, finished end of August, Feb till August six months.

Could you moult a spar or gos out this way ? And still have it ready feather perfect for the end of August ?
why are spars or gos' any diff?

[OutFlying]

Are they as steady as other hawks / falcons at high weights ? - answer no.

Will a tethered hawk moult as quick as a freelofted one ? - answer no.

If it is not advisible to have a spar on a bow whislt at hunting weight prior to flying - it certainly is not advisible to have it sitting there at top weight for 6 months.

If you have experience different patterns of behaviour then you one on your own....................

Jim.

[Flying High]

i think i can answer for him! when the bird is on tether moulting it can be slightly slower! but only if it is more stressfull! if your bird is manned well that stress should be non-exsistant! conciquently you can feed your moulting bird on the fist everyday and give a few hours manning evryday and then you dont haveto retrain! thats why i moult on tether anyhoo! steve might say somethin diff!

Thanks SycoPaff you are SO close but yet SO far

the reason i prefer to molt on the block and not the other two ways is because in the past i have tried all three methods and i feel the block is the best. Right now i have a gos who was free lofted and he has come out of the aviary with slight damage to his wing tips. i also have a Male Saker who as been molted on his perch and he is feather perfect and looking sex i might add. There was no deference in time for the moulting both took about 4 months but the big differences is. when i picked the gos back up i had to put a lot of manning back in to him to make him steady again but my saker is still as fat as a pig and i can pick him up play with him feed him on the fist and out of my fingers ). i can touch him and weight him with no problem(right through his moult, so when it comes to get him flying i have not lost any of the time i have put in to him in the past. Just because i have used a saker and a gos as an example and before people start going on about how they have completely different mentally, I KNOW. but i would like to say that i have moulted everything from Golden Eagle right down to Merlin's in this way and all have come out feather perfect and all still able to be touched, picked up with out jumping, fed on the fist and weighted.

[Flying High]

[quote
Will a tethered hawk moult as quick as a freelofted one ? - answer no.

[/quote]

Yes why will. done it and do it

[SycoPaff]

Are they as steady as other hawks / falcons at high weights ? - answer no.

Will a tethered hawk moult as quick as a freelofted one ? - answer no.

If it is not advisible to have a spar on a bow whislt at hunting weight prior to flying - it certainly is not advisible to have it sitting there at top weight for 6 months.

If you have experience different patterns of behaviour then you one on your own....................

Jim.
you obviously don't understand your birds! the reson they arn't as ''staedy'' for you is because you obviously dont have the time to spend with thenm getting them to trust you! they're scared of you! man them!

[Achilles]

If you choose to free loft your bird through the moult, what is stopping you from calling it to the fist on a daily basis, therefore continuing the manning process? If this is done daily then I don't see that the bird would be stressed to the point where it would produce feathers with fret marks etc.

[Flying High]

If you choose to free loft your bird through the moult, what is stopping you from calling it to the fist on a daily basis, therefore continuing the manning process? If this is done daily then I don't see that the bird would be stressed to the point where it would produce feathers with fret marks etc.

far enough but have done and tryed you know of the place i mean and look what happens when they see you coming to do this they fly up to and into the mess sometime breaking feathers.

[OutFlying]

Dream on P,

Don't fit a tailsheath, moult the spar tethered - let me know how you go on.

When flown during the season, yet to see a MORE steady gos than my own - yes some are as steady but none more so. Must be doing something right, also fly near top weight. Please don't talk ********.

Jim.

[Flying High]

Dream on P,

Don't fit a tailsheath, moult the spar tethered - let me know how you go on.

When flown during the season, yet to see a MORE steady gos than my own - yes some are as steady but none more so. Most be doing something right, also fly near top weight. Please don't talk ********.

Jim.

you haven't see my gos then

[Achilles]

far enough but have done and tryed you know of the place i mean and look what happens when they see you coming to do this they fly up to and into the mess sometime breaking feathers.
I think I know where you are coming from, but the point I'm trying to sort out in my head is that if you spend enough time manning the bird, then there won't be a problem calling it to the fist. There would be no reason for the bird to try flying off in the opposite direction when it sees you coming.

[Sean]

why a seculison avairy if P/R ?

[OutFlying]

Yes why will. done it and do it

Flying high,
We did a direct comparison on moulting times for 2 gosses this year, one tethered one free lofted. The tethered one took 7 weeks longer. The tethered one was free lofted the previous year and moulted out exactly the same time as the other one.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

you haven't see my gos then

And you haven't seen mine also :supz:

[OutFlying]

why a seculison avairy if P/R ?

an imprint needs to maintain human contact, a p/r one doesn't.

[Achilles]

an imprint needs to maintain human contact, a p/r one doesn't.
Is there a specific reason for not maintaining contact with a P/R?

[Flying High]

Flying high,
We did a direct comparison on moulting times for 2 gosses this year, one tethered one free lofted. The tethered one took 7 weeks longer. The tethered one was free lofted the previous year and moulted out exactly the same time as the other one.

Jim.

You have got me there. i have only moulted two gosses now one free flight (never again) and one on the block. the one on the block as about 4 years ago and i can't remember how long it took. One thing i will not do is comment on something i have never done or on something to which i c=am not sure on so i will take your word on it.
Going of on something else (i know i shouldn't because it has nothing to do with the thread). By the sounds of it you have worked with a few gosses and for some time so could you point some light on this. my gos this year grow one feather in his tail up side down and when it was full he dropped it and he grew another the correct why up. Why? do you have a suggestion for this. If you answers give me 15 Min's, just popping out to get some beer.

[Hawkmaster]

I agree with OF, a tethered bird will always take longer:!:
Flying High is the tips on your bird are breaking it is not caused by being free lofted BUT by some problem in your mews.

[Achilles]

give me 15 Min's, just popping out to get some beer.
**** head!!!

[HunterPaul]

just freeloft......

[Achilles]

I see SYCOPAFF has ******ed off. Must be under the thumb!

[Flying High]

I think I know where you are coming from, but the point I'm trying to sort out in my head is that if you spend enough time manning the bird, then there won't be a problem calling it to the fist. There would be no reason for the bird to try flying off in the opposite direction when it sees you coming.

I don't mean flying away from you i meant when the birds saw you coming to feed or fly then in the aviary for there food they flew toward you and hit the miss because they new what was coming. but you could get over tis by building your aviary correctly

[Sean]

but will a pr moult faster in seclusion? and will it be wild when it comes out? could it stop screaming?:o as it wont be seeing me feed it

[Flying High]

I agree with OF, a tethered bird will always take longer:!:
Flying High is the tips on your bird are breaking it is not caused by being free lofted BUT by some problem in your mews.

Probably is and i am chancing its deign for the new bird that is coming next year. but i do not agree that it takes longer on the block or bow

[Flying High]

**** head!!!

have you forgotten to what i have told you. you have to agree with me on anything i say on the forum (to make me good) or i will take my birds away. What is the world coming to when threats mean nothing

[Achilles]

have you forgotten to what i have told you. you have to agree with me on anything i say on the forum (to make me good) or i will take my birds away. What is the world coming to when threats mean nothing
Sorry master.

[Flying High]

Sorry master.

good man. next time i see you i expect you on your knees groveling

[Achilles]

Sorry master.
I obviously got big headed when you told me today that I am ready for my first bird. I arrived home to celebrate with a bottle of wine. Anyway, why do p/r 's have to be secluded?

[Flying High]

I obviously got big headed when you told me today that I am ready for my first bird. I arrived home to celebrate with a bottle of wine. Anyway, why do p/r 's have to be secluded?

because you have been a bad man i am not going to tell you are you pist yet

[Achilles]

because you have been a bad man i am not going to tell you are you pist yet
I can still spell! Can you?

[Flying High]

I can still spell! Can you?

Course not. you just wait tell i get drunk

[OutFlying]

Don't have to be secluded but can be secluded - there's a difference.

[Achilles]

Come on lets get back on thread. Why do P/R's need to be in seclusion?

[Flying High]

Come on lets get back on thread. Why do P/R's need to be in seclusion?

They don't have to have on but the anvantages of having a seclusion avariy is that you can feed them without them seeing you. When i use them they are manly for breeding avairys

[Achilles]

Don't have to be secluded but can be secluded - there's a difference.
Am I to assume from your previous post that you prefer seclusion? What is your reason for this? Trust me, I am just trying to understand and I therefore value your opinion.

[OutFlying]

You have got me there. i have only moulted two gosses now one free flight (never again) and one on the block. the one on the block as about 4 years ago and i can't remember how long it took. One thing i will not do is comment on something i have never done or on something to which i c=am not sure on so i will take your word on it.
Going of on something else (i know i shouldn't because it has nothing to do with the thread). By the sounds of it you have worked with a few gosses and for some time so could you point some light on this. my gos this year grow one feather in his tail up side down and when it was full he dropped it and he grew another the correct why up. Why? do you have a suggestion for this. If you answers give me 15 Min's, just popping out to get some beer.

Never seen that happen, but a friends gos this year has grown a center deck that is twisted through 90 degrees 2/3 of the way down - no fret marks and in perfect feather other than this.

[Flying High]

Never seen that happen, but a friends gos this year has grown a center deck that is twisted through 90 degrees 2/3 of the way down - no fret marks and in perfect feather other than this.

thank anyway i have never seen it before either. i have seen twisted ones before but this one was not twisted but completely upside down it was so strange and now the new one is perfect.

[Blaze]

but will a pr moult faster in seclusion? and will it be wild when it comes out? could it stop screaming?:o as it wont be seeing me feed it
Can anyone give any advice on this?........

[OutFlying]

Am I to assume from your previous post that you prefer seclusion? What is your reason for this? Trust me, I am just trying to understand and I therefore value your opinion.

Achilles,
I do prefer seclusion moulting on the p/r goshawks I've owned. They go away after a hard season into a 20 x 10 foot seclusion aviary, feeding via a food tube onto the ledge. The aviary is designed with 2 perches at either end with adequate space between them and walls to prevent feather damage. The walls are lined with tension visqueen - no feather damage possible. the bath is filled from the outside. Solid roof for 2/3 thirds, open top for the rest. The gos can see the fields and hillsides from his perch and doesn't just have to look at solid walls.

I feed as much as the gos wants but if the previous days ration is not fully eaten no more food is placed. This way the gos maintains a healthy high weight and not obese. I then reduced food rations for 2 weeks prior to pulling them out, feeds first day out on the glove, usually manned and flying free within 10 days from moult completion. They don't take as much manning or training as needed initially and are always feather perfect with a degree of fitness - as it has been able to fly all the time of the moult.

I wouldn't want to tether a gos for 6 months and don't find training them up after moulting this way to be difficult - so instead of messing with them all summer prefer to let them have a bit of peace and quiet from its owner.

For me this is the best way for a p/r goshawk, healthy and flying free - left alone for the summer ready for another hard season to come.

Yours Jim.

[OutFlying]

A couple of photo's for sycopath of an "unmanned spar........." trained and imprinted by myself- I must try harder with the manning :rolleyes: Note the look of fear in the spars eyes, ready to bate in an instant - especially when held by a 5 year old.

[Sean]

that looks like a baseball glove hes using lol :o

[Flying High]

did you breed it yourself

[HunterPaul]

if you plucked all the feathers out in one go....would the moult be quicker as they wouldnt have to drop their feathers...just grow new ones ...half the time saved and a longer season.....

[Flying High]

if you plucked all the feathers out in one go....would the moult be quicker as they wouldnt have to drop their feathers...just grow new ones ...half the time saved and a longer season.....

tell you what you try it and let us know how it works

[Achilles]

OutFlying,

Thank you. That fully answers my question but I'm sure to have others for you at a later stage!

Mick.

[HunterPaul]

what, like an experiment like..... thats not very good advice to give to somebody on the edge is it.......

[Flying High]

what, like an experiment like..... thats not very good advice to give to somebody on the edge is it.......

i have always wanted to push someone over the edge. So go and had and see what happens

[HunterPaul]

i have always wanted to push someone over the edge. So go and had and see what happens
for all you know i could be sat here surrounded by feathers ...cos of your advice... well my bird thanks you....

[Flying High]

for all you know i could be sat here surrounded by feathers ...cos of your advice... well my bird thanks you....

you could be so write but if you where that mad and unstable i would be very surprise if you could work the web and then find this site and write on it. but is you are that unstable and you have done it i will come and pluck out all of your hair, will most of it. to show you how cruel you have been to that bird

[HunterPaul]

come on down sweetie pie.....

[Flying High]

come on down sweetie pie.....

now your the one who it teasing me

[Blaze]

For foook sake fh...Dont foook with gypo's..Thats a big no no!

[HunterPaul]

now your the one who it teasing me
not teasing anyone mate....horus is coming over on the 15th...give yourself a treat and join him.... dont threaten mate dooooooooo...

[Flying High]

not teasing anyone mate....horus is coming over on the 15th...give yourself a treat and join him.... dont threaten mate dooooooooo...

i might have to do that, if that alright.

[HunterPaul]

its a date fella...we can always bring it forward....

[Flying High]

its a date fella...we can always bring it forward....

i am seeing Horus on Tuesdays so i will speak to him than and i will see if the bank (the partner) will give me a long to let me go

[HunterPaul]

you are having a laugh....you mean you dont have your own money.....

[Flying High]

you are having a laugh....you mean you dont have your own money.....

nop. all the money i make right now is going on the birds. so it is time i get on my knees and beg. shes a big softy so fingers crossed

[HunterPaul]

pathetic.....

[Flying High]

i know. but thats the hard bit of starting up a business. your money is not your own. every penny i make is already spent before i get it.

[Blaze]

nop. all the money i make right now is going on the birds. so it is time i get on my knees and beg. shes a big softy so fingers crossed
I take it she's a big lass then!...lol..

[HunterPaul]

ask her for your nuts back while begging for money....

[Flying High]

will do but not much point, never get to us them. but i will ask

[OutFlying]

OutFlying,

Thank you. That fully answers my question but I'm sure to have others for you at a later stage!

Mick.

No problem.

Jim.

[Wightwings]

well THAT was an interesting read........glad i dont wish to take any advise off you Jim....after all being new to this shortwing thing like you are.......pmsl.......;-) :supz:

PS......freeloft everytime for the moult cant see any true arguable reason not too........:roll:

[SycoPaff]

O/F! sorry bout yesterday! shouldn't have said what i did! was out of order! don't know you or your falconry or birds and i take back what i said! free lofting isn't bad in anyway but tether i do prefer!

P.S nice spar

[Jastreb]

Freeloft, and Jim maybe knows something :D:supz:
Cheers Jastreb

[OutFlying]

O/F! sorry bout yesterday! shouldn't have said what i did! was out of order! don't know you or your falconry or birds and i take back what i said! free lofting isn't bad in anyway but tether i do prefer!

P.S nice spar

No offence taken Sycopath.