Falconry / Full time employment

[Harris Hawk 1984]

Hello.

Right please can i get as many views on this as possible :-)

I have been reading my books and checking the net out and there is varied opinions on the subject above.

My question to you lot is,if your in full time employment will you be able to take up falconry and own a bird of prey and to give it the best life it can have?

please reply to this!! :) :yawinkle:

[Bash]

All depends on how serious you are about your Falconry. If you want a bird to follow you on a walk then maybe. A hunting bird, no. My short answer to your question would be no.

I've been a Falconer for around 30 years but have not had any birds of my own since 1993.

I am in full time employment. During the winter I go to work in semi darkness and I don't get home until dusk.

I would give my right arm for a bird of my own but I cannot afford to leave my job and if I stay I don't have the time need for a hunting bird. Flying an unfit bird at the weekends just wouldn't do it for me neither.

I would love to know how Falconers that work full time during daylight hours do it?

Roll on retirement but it'll probably be banned by then? :(

[Wurkin]

I think you opened up a can of worms on this one LOL. I work full time and have a male RT. Many guys in my club are the same way with various types of birds with no problems. I wonder how you would be able to do this without a full time job. It is not a cheap hobby to say the least. I would not want to try to fly multiple birds, but one can easily be trained and hunted. If you come home after dusk during the week, turn on the lights in the mew or bring the bird inside and do some training. Feed accordingly so that on Saturday and/or Sunday you are ready to go.

[Kentish Falconry]

All depends on how serious you are about your Falconry. If you want a bird to follow you on a walk then maybe. A hunting bird, no. My short answer to your question would be no.

I've been a Falconer for around 30 years but have not had any birds of my own since 1993.

I am in full time employment. During the winter I go to work in semi darkness and I don't get home until dask.

I would give my right arm for a bird of my own but I cannot afford to leave my job and if I stay I don't have the time need for a hunting bird. Flying an unfit bird at the weekends just wouldn't do it for me neither.

I would love to know how Falconers that work full time during daylight hours do it?

Roll on retirement but it'll probably be banned by then? :(

Nice answer BASH and very true.
Harris Hawks were known at one time as weekend Falconers birds but the ones I saw were not good at all, although they had potential
The more you can fly your bird the better and fitter it will be.
Some people with full time jobs keep their birds fit by doing jump up's during the week but their birds never seem to fly to their full ability at the weekend.

Not only do Falconers need to learn Field Crafts but young birds that have not been shown how to do it by their parents also need to learn to hunt as well so the answer is NO if you don't have the time then leave the birds alone

[Saker-Clive]

I also agree with Bash; I'm lucky in one way, I was diagnosed with cancer last January (on the up now) so I don't work at the mo. I have a male HH and a female Saker. Both birds are flown almost every day, weather permitting but since having 2 birds, I've noticed that they are not as fit as I would like. When I only had the Harris, I was flying him twice a day, in the morning, then again late afternoon. He was being flown for abot 3 hours a day but now, although when we're out, we're flying for a good 2 hours, he is not as 'full on' as 18 months ago!!!!!!!!
Prior to being diagnosed, I was in full time employment but my bosses were very accomodating; if we were a little slack, I would say that I'd take the afternoon off, so as to fly the bird, which they didn't mind. They knew that if the weather was cr*p, I'd work late etc.
Falconry is a serious commitment, it's not like having a cat; a quick stroke now and then and give it a bowl of food........................................

[Starsky]

Here is my opinion, if you have one bird and fly it every day all day, its not good for the bird. I went out flying harris hawks with ben long many years ago, they were the first Harris Hawks he had ever had, or so he said. But one thing has always stuck in my mind is that he mentioned you should not fly birds hard all the time, you should feed them up at least on day a week, and then only feed a little food, just enough to drop back to flying weight over a period of a few days. Depending on the weather this might take two or maybe three days. But the important thing to remember is that the bird is resting, it has eaten as much as it can, as it would in the wild. The way i look at it, is that a bird at flying weight/hunting weight is very close to the knife edge. Its lean and muscled up. Being in that state for long periods of time isn't very good for the birds health, it has no time to recover properly from all its efforts. Its simple biology and common sense, do you see athlete's competing all year, do you see boxers fighting all year, do you see tour De France riders racing hard all season without rest. The answer is no because the body cannot take that kind of punishment and perform at its peak for long periods in that state. Its the same with falconry birds, they need rest between hard efforts to give the muscles a chance to recover. So back to the question of how many flying days a week to get the best out of your bird, i would say 4 days flying 3 days rest. If you start to drop below 4 days then the bird will not perform as good and stay fit. Flying a bird just at weekends isn't going to get the best out of it, but we all set our own standards and goals. If your happy with flying 2 days a week, the bird is well looked after and healthy. Two days of happy hawking is better than zero days.

[Jazz1]

Hi H/H in a full time job and flying is hard myself and my M8(abeboy) try to get our H/H's out 4times a week(hunting) it's only fair on the hawks and the other 3 days do try and just get them across onto fields were we stay for a fly B4 they are fed.
Alot of people say and think Harris's are good for weekend hawks but you also get back what you put in.

[HunterPaul]

answer to your question....no....where do we live...England...what happens on the weekends its ****ing down...and the poor bird has been tethered down all week and the only good flying day is wednesday.... are you ganna take your unfit ....not to mention slightly mentallly unfit bird to the fields to hunt it even in the rain....good on you and when it cant catch anything cos its wet through...im sure it will thank you...the best way to encourage any bird is success...the more the better...and the harris especially grows mentally with every one....you can see it happening before your eyes.... as far as flying on a knifes edge is concerned ....the weight of my birds goes up and up as the season goes on...and they just love the chase and kill... but i do agree one day off a week on good quality food is a must.... the rest of the time im either bringing her weight down and fist jumping her....or hunting...but im a privelidged *****... so lucky.... good question though... i think you should find some falconers in your area and go out with them at the weekend...it wont be long before your carrying there bird anyway.... and you dont have any responsibility... and lets face it were all only spectating...

[Darren]

i work shifts 4 days on 4 days off, so the bird is flown at the most 12 days on the trot as when iam om nights iam up for 1pm & out with him for them 4 days as well as the 4 days before & after that shift. when iam on my 4 day shifts he is left alone & feed by my daughter in the mews when she gets home from high school.He is a male Harris by the way.

[Hardcore Hawker]

the only way it is possible is if you can find a job to suit your falconry which is what you do if your dedicated to falconry and your career i currently work from six in the morning to seven or eight at night and hunt the bird daily for at least two hours this is very tireing but the break in the day really does make it worth it. Also to do this you need plenty of permission very close to your place of work.

[Bash]

i work shifts 4 days on 4 days off, so the bird is flown at the most 12 days on the trot as when iam om nights iam up for 1pm & out with him for them 4 days as well as the 4 days before & after that shift. when iam on my 4 day shifts he is left alone & feed by my daughter in the mews when she gets home from high school.He is a male Harris by the way.

I envy you Darren. Shift work must be ideal.

Starsky, I'm a little confused as too what you get your birds doing that is so strenuous? Overall I would have to disagree with your comments. I would agree that it is good practice to give a bird a rest day each week but I would also try and fly my birds every day were possible.

I have found that this is the only way to keep a hawk or falcon fit enough. A bird that has three or so days off looses condition very quickly and they can be slow to get going again. They need a slip or two to get back into the groove.

Saying that, I wouldn't let my bird get exhasted. A hand full of slips or stoops on live quarry would be quite enough for the day and wouldn't expect her to work for hours on end everyday as you described.

These slips everyday with the odd one off would keep my bird fit, in condition and usually very happy. That has always been a Falconers goal. I just need a job offering shift work now. Anyone???

[MattSpar]

Here is my opinion, if you have one bird and fly it every day all day, its not good for the bird. I went out flying harris hawks with ben long many years ago, they were the first Harris Hawks he had ever had, or so he said. But one thing has always stuck in my mind is that he mentioned you should not fly birds hard all the time, you should feed them up at least on day a week, and then only feed a little food, just enough to drop back to flying weight over a period of a few days. Depending on the weather this might take two or maybe three days. But the important thing to remember is that the bird is resting, it has eaten as much as it can, as it would in the wild. The way i look at it, is that a bird at flying weight/hunting weight is very close to the knife edge. Its lean and muscled up. Being in that state for long periods of time isn't very good for the birds health, it has no time to recover properly from all its efforts. Its simple biology and common sense, do you see athlete's competing all year, do you see boxers fighting all year, do you see tour De France riders racing hard all season without rest. The answer is no because the body cannot take that kind of punishment and perform at its peak for long periods in that state. Its the same with falconry birds, they need rest between hard efforts to give the muscles a chance to recover. So back to the question of how many flying days a week to get the best out of your bird, i would say 4 days flying 3 days rest. If you start to drop below 4 days then the bird will not perform as good and stay fit. Flying a bird just at weekends isn't going to get the best out of it, but we all set our own standards and goals. If your happy with flying 2 days a week, the bird is well looked after and healthy. Two days of happy hawking is better than zero days.

No, I'm in disagreement here too. There's enough bad weather days during the season without giving your bird planned breaks. Every so often, something will prevent you flying on a certain day, and if this is known in advance, then the bird can be fed up, which does no harm of course, but flying isn't competetive athletics, nor boxing, nor road racing, and a bird needs no extended rest periods. Hence, I try to fly seven days a week. The season is over soon enough without rest periods, I think.

[Saker-Clive]

I agree Mattspar, it doesn't take much to look at the forecast for the comming days; providing we know it's gonna lash it down, we can give a good feed up and carry on.............check again the following day and adjust the feed accordingly. We all know how our weather can be a bit hit & miss!!!!

[OhMyGod]

I havn't read the other posts so I appologise if theis has already been covered.

Some people who find themselves forced into this situation will sell birds they are unable to fly and fly a bird they can fly, some species can be flown with the aid of a lamp on a daily basis during the week and be quite happy, where as obviously a peregrine would not be a good choice for this style of hunting. If you are serious about keeping hold of trained longwings or other unsuible species for night hawking you can always get a job working nights, or a falconry related job.

[Jastreb]

I am flying my goshawk 7 days a week, I don't care about rain, wind, snow.....
I am working from 7ms-3pm.
And if someone is thinking to fly goshawks less than 5 times per week, I don't think that he can take out best of his gos!
Cheers Jastreb

[MattSpar]

Here is my opinion, if you have one bird and fly it every day all day, its not good for the bird. I went out flying harris hawks with ben long many years ago, they were the first Harris Hawks he had ever had, or so he said. But one thing has always stuck in my mind is that he mentioned you should not fly birds hard all the time, you should feed them up at least on day a week, and then only feed a little food, just enough to drop back to flying weight over a period of a few days. Depending on the weather this might take two or maybe three days. But the important thing to remember is that the bird is resting, it has eaten as much as it can, as it would in the wild. The way i look at it, is that a bird at flying weight/hunting weight is very close to the knife edge. Its lean and muscled up. Being in that state for long periods of time isn't very good for the birds health, it has no time to recover properly from all its efforts. Its simple biology and common sense, do you see athlete's competing all year, do you see boxers fighting all year, do you see tour De France riders racing hard all season without rest. The answer is no because the body cannot take that kind of punishment and perform at its peak for long periods in that state. Its the same with falconry birds, they need rest between hard efforts to give the muscles a chance to recover. So back to the question of how many flying days a week to get the best out of your bird, i would say 4 days flying 3 days rest. If you start to drop below 4 days then the bird will not perform as good and stay fit. Flying a bird just at weekends isn't going to get the best out of it, but we all set our own standards and goals. If your happy with flying 2 days a week, the bird is well looked after and healthy. Two days of happy hawking is better than zero days.

I'd just thought I'd add here, the above seems to be based on the harris'. If anyone attempts the above regime on any of the smaller hawks, or any large falcon, they will very soon come unstuck.

[Stewigan]

the best way to keep a bird and a job, is to follow my example go and work for yourself plastering a couple of months before xmas, then ur guaranteed no work cos everyones ready for xmas and savin money but u got loadsa time to fly ur birds and no work'll cum in til end of jan. so there u go 1 fit bird an happy falconer and spend next six months workin an payin a backlog of bills b4 u start again

[LongVVing]

I used to work the standard 9 to 5 5-day week and at the time had a female harris hawk at the time. I would try to fly her atleast four or five days out of the seven. I did high-jumps with her on days when the weather was bad or I was unable to fly her. I kept her fit by lamping her at night.

Now I can work from home and adjust my hours accordingly to enable more daylight flying.
I am now flying a peregrine falcon but have restricted myself to a single bird only so I can devote all the training and hunting to her. I certainly wouldn't recommend a falcon unless you have daylight each day to fly her.

If you have a fulltime job and could devote some evenings lamping then a Harris is a possibility. Use a dummy bunny to keep her fit if no rabbits are about you can put her on fence posts or tree branches, walk away then shine the light on the dummy and get her her fly to it (its even better if you have a friend). Do High-jumps when weather is bad. The fly her hard during the daylight hours you have available. Get her following on from tree to tree then if you walk 5 miles and she flies 5 miles you'll both get exercise! Stick to a single bird and you should have some fun.

Just a thought anyways!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Harris Hawk 1984]

ummm ok!!!

As someone said on here,how do you afford to actually pay for the set up and the rest of the equipment food etc if you havnt got a job? me personally i dont like robbing people :wink:


Is there any falconers on here who are close to manchester who will let me come along when your flying?

this is so annoying,because at the moment i do want to take up falconry and really want to get involved,although iam in no rush to get a bird at the mo.
i dont know what bird i would get even if i eventually did decide to buy one.

as i am a beginner i see at the moment that you cant have a bird and be in full time employment,but i dont understand 1) wheres your money coming from? 2) how do other people do it by not having a job?

well up to yet looks like the only bird i will be buying in the future is a budgie and hoping it will hunt the spiders in my house!!!

:mrgreen:

please post more up about this and what birds are advisable to get.

somebody said on here about the weather being bad at weekend,hang on a minute the weather is bad all the time in england,so again if this is the case how can people take up falconry?

btw,i work a 9 -5 mon - fri and work 1 in 3 saturdays.
My dad works shifts aswell,he works 4 days on 4 days off then 4 nights on 4 days off. i think if we bought a bird between us then that could work we could both have the commitment and take turns.iam not sure about this but i certainly dont want to be putting £2000 into a hobbie thats gonna crash and burn,but most importantly not give the bird its healthy and correct (how should i put it) lifestyle.

like i said above if anyone has a bird and goes flying around the manchester area then if possible please let me come along.

cheers :D

[Harris Hawk 1984]

319 views and only 18 replys.thats **** poor.:(

come on help.

[Starsky]

Starsky, I'm a little confused as too what you get your birds doing that is so strenuous?
Being at flying hunting weight for long periods of time and flown each day. It cant be good for the bird. Give it a few days rest, let it put its feet up lOL

[ChrisJ]

Well here is my two pennies worth....
I always try to look at the bigger picture.
We can all aspire to be perfect falconers with birds that are hunted every day in the best style possible.
BUT we cant all do this all of the time.
If the birds daily management regime is sound and the bird is flown when practical, no harm will be done (I am considering Harrises and such like here, NOT Accipiters).
For those who advocate we shouldn't fly birds unless they are flown every day just consider the consequences:
1. None or few falconry gear manufacturers
2. Few bird breeders producing very few species which would be very expensive.
3. An elite small group of richies extolling the virtues of a dying art!
C'mon, lets get real, so many of us have to work to live, to pay bills, pay for our hobbies, etc. Does it really matter if the birds are only flown once or twice a week? As long as we enjoy our falconry and the birds dont suffer (and I dont think not flying every day counts as suffering), then I dont see a problem.
I hope keen and enthusiastic potential new falconers are not put off because they feel on the basis of what is being said by some that they shouldn't take up the pastime.

Chris

[MattSpar]

For those who advocate we shouldn't fly birds unless they are flown every day just consider the consequences:
1. None or few falconry gear manufacturers
2. Few bird breeders producing very few species which would be very expensive.
3. An elite small group of richies extolling the virtues of a dying art!

Ah, Heaven.

[The Ninja]

3. An elite small group of richies extolling the virtues of a dying art!
C'mon, lets get real, so many of us have to work to live, to pay bills, pay for our hobbies, etc. Does it really matter if the birds are only flown once or twice a week? As long as we enjoy our falconry and the birds dont suffer (and I dont think not flying every day counts as suffering), then I dont see a problem.
I hope keen and enthusiastic potential new falconers are not put off because they feel on the basis of what is being said by some that they shouldn't take up the pastime.

Chris

Well said m8.
The majority of us need to work, in an ideal world we could all fit our work around our hobby/sport, unfortunately this is not an ideal world folks.

[Shannor]

Along this same line, I've been blessed with finding a long term, well paid seasonal job where I would be able to take the birds with me to work, where I'd be in contact with a general falconer. The work is from late spring to late summer, and for the most part, weekends only.

Because of the great distances I'm likely to travel from home, I will not be able to return to my own facilities on a regular basis.

What I'd like to know, is whether people think that spending extended periods of time in temporary mews would be healthy for any bird I may get in the future?

[Dave G]

i agree with most i fly my harris most days weather permitted,so i recon i get out at least 4 times aweek ,but things dont always go to plan weather,kids birthdays,holidays etc so i dont think every bird gets flow 7 days aweek plus hunting on a sunday is a no no in some peoples books so theres a day lost straight away ,but i do think that this sport falconry shouldnt be a weekend thing as this is unfair on the birds

[Moses]

I also agree with Bash; I'm lucky in one way, I was diagnosed with cancer last January (on the up now) so I don't work at the mo. I have a male HH and a female Saker. Both birds are flown almost every day, weather permitting but since having 2 birds, I've noticed that they are not as fit as I would like. When I only had the Harris, I was flying him twice a day, in the morning, then again late afternoon. He was being flown for abot 3 hours a day but now, although when we're out, we're flying for a good 2 hours, he is not as 'full on' as 18 months ago!!!!!!!!
Prior to being diagnosed, I was in full time employment but my bosses were very accomodating; if we were a little slack, I would say that I'd take the afternoon off, so as to fly the bird, which they didn't mind. They knew that if the weather was cr*p, I'd work late etc.
Falconry is a serious commitment, it's not like having a cat; a quick stroke now and then and give it a bowl of food........................................

clive im so sorry to hear that mate, i never ever mentioned it before, and still your always helpful, God willing i hope its getting better and u r getting fitter again mate, may it be a blessed new yr for u ameen

[Moses]

I am flying my goshawk 7 days a week, I don't care about rain, wind, snow.....
I am working from 7ms-3pm.
And if someone is thinking to fly goshawks less than 5 times per week, I don't think that he can take out best of his gos!
Cheers Jastreb


nice one jas :) u have a happy new yr bros nice to see u still about and some more pics pls


cheers

[Albie]

Well here is my two pennies worth....
I always try to look at the bigger picture.
We can all aspire to be perfect falconers with birds that are hunted every day in the best style possible.
BUT we cant all do this all of the time.
If the birds daily management regime is sound and the bird is flown when practical, no harm will be done (I am considering Harrises and such like here, NOT Accipiters).
For those who advocate we shouldn't fly birds unless they are flown every day just consider the consequences:
1. None or few falconry gear manufacturers
2. Few bird breeders producing very few species which would be very expensive.
3. An elite small group of richies extolling the virtues of a dying art!
C'mon, lets get real, so many of us have to work to live, to pay bills, pay for our hobbies, etc. Does it really matter if the birds are only flown once or twice a week? As long as we enjoy our falconry and the birds dont suffer (and I dont think not flying every day counts as suffering), then I dont see a problem.
I hope keen and enthusiastic potential new falconers are not put off because they feel on the basis of what is being said by some that they shouldn't take up the pastime.

Chris
Well said Chris,
I can on average, only fly my birds at the weekend, the Owl in the AM and the Hawk on the PM.
Other than that I try to keep them as fit as possible,them and their Mews nice and clean, and Manned every evening in the house.
And after a hard weeks work what better than to be out in the country side of Devon flying.
Albie..

[Gary Timbrell]

Have another look at the seasons.

You can fly every day (not all day!) in August, September and the first two weeks of October, daylight hours allow it. Even allowing for bad weather and off days I get 50 days hunting a year with either a spar or a longwing (depending on which I have at the time).

To get the same number of days in the Winter you have to guarantee every Saturday and Sunday from September to February - not possible in bad weather and no daylight.

[Gunther]

Well I work in three shifts. from 06.00am till 14.00pm and 14.00pm till 22.00pm and 22.00pm till 06.00am. So I can fly birds almost all day and take care for them everyday.

[3Kids-0Hawks]

I've been into falconry since about 13 when I did a falconry course. With the support of my dad who was into the sport but had to work 5 days a week I was able to fly a variety of birds untill my early 20's when I too had to get off my backside and get a job. I was also really lucky in having an experienced falconer who took me out with my MRT every weekend.

I've spent the last 10 - 15 years working and having a family etc and having to put up with the obsession by reading about it only but it still remains my total obsession rather than a hobby or sport. I do have other hobbies but I don't think of falconry as being anything like them(it is to all consuming to be just a hobby).

I am at the most frustrating stage at the moment in that I work shifts and so could comfortably get out 5or6 days a week and have land available. I would very much like to get another bird but am giving it 2 more years when the youngest of my 3 kids starts full time school and I shall hopefully have moved to a house with a bigger garden. In the meantime its like time has stood still and I'm wishing the next 2 years of my life away. BUT I think it will be well worth the wait as I wouldn't want a hawk stuck in a mews getting fat and bored. To top the frustration off when I last had a bird I always wanted a Harris but they were over a £1000 a piece so I had no chance.

To top it all off I think falconry is much more than a hobby, my hobby has become collecting books(mostly on falconry) and that is a hobby because I can just forget about it when I go on holiday and stuff. Falconry has to be far more tyhan that.

Happy new year to all