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Dave G
09-12-2005, 09:11 AM
hi all hope every ones enjoying flying and hunting with their hawks,falcons.ok my question is what is classed as self hunting as if your harris or redtail is following on from tree to tree and spots quarry 50 yards away which is more than likely running from cover as its heard you walking and beating the cover and takes flight is this self hunting , i dont think so also if your bird is perched high up in a tree and sees a pheasant rabbit sitting out in a field 100 yards away should your harris or redtail ignore this quarry as you havent seen it or put up the game for your bird to chase, again i dont think so as this may be the only flight your bird gets that day,i do agree with having control of your hawk as i can whistle mine in flight after quarry and he will stop chasing and come back,but to stop your hawk hunting things you havent seen is hard as dont forget their eye sight is 100 times better than ours , so i think at some point all hawks which are flown from trees self hunt at some point or another so statements made to this could lead to self hunting is total b@@@cks

HunterPaul
09-12-2005, 09:19 AM
ive heard it said but never seen it done....id love to see a bird abandon a flight for the whistle...no joke ...i think that is brill.... well done...
i consider self hunting when you are heading one way and the bird starts ignoring you as it knows better and heads off in the other direction ....so for me its when you lose involvement except for the actually killing....

NGuruve
09-12-2005, 09:24 AM
i agree i dont think that this is self hunting your out there for te bird to hunt and kill sumthing aslong as it doesnt stray away from you and ignore you i htink that its fine

Dave G
09-12-2005, 09:43 AM
exactly my point my harris follows on very close all the time but if he sees quarry hes off ,ive had him go half a mile but if he misses he gets back up in the tree and when whistles startes heading back,to me this is not self hunting but a keen hunting bird who will put in a good flight for a kill,as i think if you keep whistling then to keep them close so you know where they are at all times or keep making them return to the fist for rewards this leads the bird to be more fixed on the handler than what quarry is about ,as the early part of training the harris to stay close was with rewards and following on was also rewarded so this should be normal to your harris to stay close and follow on in its second season.

MattSpar
09-12-2005, 09:51 AM
do agree with having control of your hawk as i can whistle mine in flight after quarry and he will stop chasing and come back,

If this happened to me, I would consider there was something very wrong.

Blaze
09-12-2005, 09:54 AM
If this happened to me, I would consider there was something very wrong.
I thought the same...If a bird see's quarry it should be off like the clappers with nothing but catching the quarry in its mind...

DeathFromAbove
09-12-2005, 09:55 AM
nothing distacts mine from the chase.....bloody hell if i were to recall her in mid chase i'd have no chance of stopping her hehehe. she'll see it through till the very end, in fact if she's certain something can be re-flushed even if it actually can't she stays put and i have to go to her hehehe

Dave G
09-12-2005, 09:57 AM
hi matt, dont get me wrong when whistled he stops and turns around and comes back ,i do this if the pheasant hes after is going away from him and he knows hes not going to catch it hes happy to turn in flight when whistled and return as hes not a goss lol hope this clears things up

HunterPaul
09-12-2005, 10:14 AM
ahhhh you see i thought you could stop your harris in mid chase and he would stop and come back....then i would have been impressed but what your sort of saying is when the bird knows he has no hope of catching it then you blow the whistle and he thinks oh well stuff it ill go back.....
hmmm ... the harris will eventually show up your inadequesies in the field and although forgiving....they will eventually see you for what you are ...and the fact that the fist is a less convenient place to catch from than the big ol oak over there ...the bird aint coming down, till it wants..... as you stated the bird has amazing eyesight and it will see manky old dead carrion from miles away.... great day out if youve just had to trapes after it three fields and its half cropped up on a dead sheep..... i prefer to be in more control...allowing freedom when i want it to be free...and in small quantities.... my way thats all....the reason i use hawks instead of falcons is the fact i feel as if i am part of the process by being quick to slip...standing in the right place..etc...ok im a walking branch, but at least im something....

Blaze
09-12-2005, 10:18 AM
So does that mean he is rewarding the bird to give up the chase?

MattSpar
09-12-2005, 12:37 PM
hi matt, dont get me wrong when whistled he stops and turns around and comes back ,i do this if the pheasant hes after is going away from him and he knows hes not going to catch it hes happy to turn in flight when whistled and return as hes not a goss lol hope this clears things up

Well, we all have our own methods I suppose. Personally, if flying a harris' I leave it up to the bird to decide whether or not to give up and return. If you stay your hand and resist the temptation to call her back because, for example, a pheasant seems to be leaving her standing (they all will!), a harris' will soon learn to keep going, sometimes for a very long way, in the knowledge that the pheasant must stop sooner rather than later and can sometimes be caught on the put-in, or else she will learn to take stand and wait for the falconer to initiate the re-flush.
My present harris' will follow game for up to half a mile, as he has the necessary confidence to know he has a chance, however small, of a kill at the end. Either that, or a very tired falconer will arrive on the scene to perform the necessary manouvre.

Harrisii
09-12-2005, 04:44 PM
for what its worth, i feel that when the bird goes off after quarry which has not been flushed for it, it is bordering on the self hunting. although it is kinda self hunting it aint the worst type and a good hawk should be encouraged to hunt in this way. a hawk up a tree will have a great advantage and see everything about, where as the falconer navigating his way through trees, etc, will see little.

the self hunting which should be discouraged is the one where the bird goes off on its own without the falconer and away in the other direction, not following on like the former. this is usually a weight thing.

so yes, i believe it is co-operative self hunting to a degree but is not likely to be a problem so long as she is following on and staying close by. she will take a lot more quarry this way so it should not be totally discouraged.

i know what you are talking about RHH, when one of my birds give chase to a snipe, woodcock etc, i will whistle them back after a time and they come right back. i never do it with pheasants though as they can follow till they put in for a re-flush or take them on the landing.

Ben C
09-12-2005, 06:42 PM
Self hunting is simple:

The moment of free flight with a moron and a fat hawk. :supz: :supz: :supz:


(that includes me as well)

MickeyDredd
09-12-2005, 06:44 PM
Self hunting is simple:
The moment of free flight with a moron and a fat hawk. :supz: :supz: :supz:
(that includes me as well)

speaking from experience of course :butthead:

Ben C
09-12-2005, 06:48 PM
Me??? How dare you!!!!

Never lost a hawk EVER..............:supz: :supz:

Ben C
09-12-2005, 06:51 PM
Actually Mike my old mate......I lost one on the soar once...........but that don't count:supz: :supz: :supz:

Bones
09-12-2005, 06:53 PM
Me??? How dare you!!!!

Never lost a hawk EVER..............:supz: :supz:
You know what they say about tempting fate and wishing you had not said that lol
PAUL

Ben C
09-12-2005, 06:56 PM
Bonesy: Mike knows full well I have lost him a few times.......thank f u ck for telem mate :goodman: :supz:

Bones
09-12-2005, 07:17 PM
Bonesy: Mike knows full well I have lost him a few times.......thank f u ck for telem mate :goodman: :supz:
I know mate just teasing glad to know you got him back lol
PAUL