Few questions about the moult

[Sean]

Do u go in to take bones out every few days? and do you weigh the hawk to maintain some level of tameness.what is the best food during the moult? i have access to rats,mince, from reptile shops, chicks,beef rabbit and pheasent. what way would i go about rptating the food, and how much should i fed compared to the amount you feed at flying weight. im asking this for a harris hawk. thanks for all the help

[Tarqers]

once you have put it away just leave it alone,dont let it see you feed it each day,let it grow up and develope a wild side.let the beetles deal with the waste products you will be surprized how clean they will keep it,and once its weight is up with a crash pig out, ie a whole pheasant yes the amout you feed it will be fine ,i woud,nt bother with any flash food i feed mine rabbit i caught the season before and a woody or dove every fortnight nothing shot gun though,,,,tarqs

[IAmTheWeasel]

I handle my hawks daily during the moult as I would during the hunting season. I bring them out, weight them, feed them, perch them out in the yard, spray them down with water, etc. etc. With this activity, it maintains a calm bird when you want to start the season off again. It takes one or two sessions on the creance and I'm back out hunting. Don't know about ya'll, but I only like to man a bird once....when it's trapped.....

[DeathFromAbove]

once you have put it away just leave it alone,dont let it see you feed it each day,let it grow up and develope a wild side.let the beetles deal with the waste products you will be surprized how clean they will keep it,and once its weight is up with a crash pig out, ie a whole pheasant yes the amout you feed it will be fine ,i woud,nt bother with any flash food i feed mine rabbit i caught the season before and a woody or dove every fortnight nothing shot gun though,,,,tarqs

No offence but Have to dissagre with you there mate..... wouldn't treat any other hunting companion like this and i don't think a harris should be either...

Sean......I know cleaning isn't done as often as in season but def bare min once a week in my opinion, i still fist feed and tether out on a regular basis and have had no problems.... leaving rotten food and bones in there all summer is a sure fire recipe for disaster... also i do feed up my hawk to a top weight but not to a huge extent.... imagine the stress on a body that every year was allowed to become very obese sitting round all day and then a crash diest at the start of the season. as long as you keep a varied healthy diet there shouldn't be any probs altho a supplement is handy to use such as raptor essentials and a pro biotic like bio plus to keep the gut in good order.

Just my 2 cents worth - hope it helps

[Minty]

once you have put it away just leave it alone,dont let it see you feed it each day,let it grow up and develope a wild side.let the beetles deal with the waste products you will be surprized how clean they will keep it,and once its weight is up with a crash pig out, ie a whole pheasant yes the amout you feed it will be fine ,i woud,nt bother with any flash food i feed mine rabbit i caught the season before and a woody or dove every fortnight nothing shot gun though,,,,tarqs

Excuse my Newieness as i may be wrong and if i am then its something for me t know for the future but this does not seem right at all.

Like i say perhaps as i have not moulted a bird out yet i am wrong but this seems strange to what i have read.

[DeathFromAbove]

You're not wrong minty, as i said in my post i'd never treat my harris like that. leaving them in a festering room crawling with insects and thinking their companion they've trusted all season has just abandoned them - 's cruel in my opinion.

[Darren]

I handle my hawks daily during the moult as I would during the hunting season. I bring them out, weight them, feed them, perch them out in the yard, spray them down with water, etc. etc. With this activity, it maintains a calm bird when you want to start the season off again. It takes one or two sessions on the creance and I'm back out hunting. Don't know about ya'll, but I only like to man a bird once....when it's trapped.....

I done the same as above while he was moulting & he was flying within 2 sessions on the creance:supz:

Daz

[Tarqers]

your relationship with your bird is a simbiosis,for you to imagin for a minute that you are buddies is at best very misguided,ever imagined for a minute that the bird does not want to be bothered when its fat,,,tarqs good thread though. ps its that sort of sentimental bull which will stop you being the best you can be,,,,tarqs

[OutFlying]

once you have put it away just leave it alone,dont let it see you feed it each day,let it grow up and develope a wild side.let the beetles deal with the waste products you will be surprized how clean they will keep it,and once its weight is up with a crash pig out, ie a whole pheasant yes the amout you feed it will be fine ,i woud,nt bother with any flash food i feed mine rabbit i caught the season before and a woody or dove every fortnight nothing shot gun though,,,,tarqs

Sounds like decent advice to me.

OF.

[Sean]

thanks for the replies guys I was just thinking about tethering him once a week, for a little clean out of the mews, and weighing him. like in hollinsheads book. i also got some raptor essentials :)

[MickeyDredd]

once you have put it away just leave it alone,dont let it see you feed it each day,let it grow up and develope a wild side.,,,,tarqs

This is what I do also, although not bothered if they see me providing the food.

[BFC 007]

thanks for the replies guys I was just thinking about tethering him once a week, for a little clean out of the mews, and weighing him. like in hollinsheads book. i also got some raptor essentials :)

if he's high in weight sean he probably wont wanna be with you lol

[Sean]

what weight would u recomend to have him at? hes come to me at 1lb 8 but hunts at 1lb 5.5- 5.75 and his fat weight was 1lb 10. hes noisey, so i will be hoping he will shut up for a hwile during the moult lol

[ScotsFalconer]

some people put in an avairy and leave them. this is perfectly ok. it just mean that u will probally have to go in and catch him/her up to take her out again. i personally like to go in regulary and feed on fist in avairy. that way you can still clean them out and dont have much problem getting thm out again. either way both have there benifits. i wouldnt take out of avairy and teather tho just in case it bates and breaks sumthing or feather etc. you could still take it out and handle it etc. there is no need to weight it regulary. u can do to make sure thats its healthy and the like but u will be feeding it up anyway. i found that giving them the vitamins MVS 30 help speed up the moult and really help produce nice feathers.

[ScotsFalconer]

what weight would u recomend to have him at? hes come to me at 1lb 8 but hunts at 1lb 5.5- 5.75 and his fat weight was 1lb 10. hes noisey, so i will be hoping he will shut up for a hwile during the moult lol

i would not worry about what weight he is just feed him lots and good stuff. plenty of rat,quail, mice, rabbit etc all the good stuff

[Tarqers]

what weight would u recomend to have him at? hes come to me at 1lb 8 but hunts at 1lb 5.5- 5.75 and his fat weight was 1lb 10. hes noisey, so i will be hoping he will shut up for a hwile during the moult lol
he will be silent during the moult,dont worry.
if you allow him to go wild in seclusion during moult,the retraining will just be the same but shorter,one of the advantages is you get to iron out any little bad manner problems,free lofting suits me because i travel in summer,and others can feed,both ways have merits,whoever your bird is a wild animal and as such is intitled to its own space,,,,tarqs

[Jester]

what about leaving an imprint (owl or "proper" falconry bird)
im guessing that they would still need to be handled ??


i kept taking jester out and spending time with him but at a high weight so no flying. This year i might not let his weight go up quite so high (at one point he was 4lb 10oz )
he will fly in the garden at anything up to 4lb6oz but anywhere else he wont respond above 3lb15oz so i was thinking i could get him to do a couple flights for some of his food in summer to help keep him half way fit cos when he was done moulting this year it was a nightmare getting him down in weight and at the same time getting him fit again. any thoughts on this???

[Tarqers]

ive often though of making a perch scales,nothing flash just a chunky branch
fitted through a faily tight hole,when your bird is at the weight you want it stays horizontal,over weight and the outside branch goes up, when not in use put a prop under it and some weight on it,,,,tarqs

[MickeyDredd]

Jester

It may be difficult to do this with Jester due to the temperature i.e. he will not burn much fuel and also will overheat very quickly if flying so will not want to fly enough to burn off the fuel - if you get my drift!

[Jester]

overheat in aberdeenshire???????????????? surely you jest:rolleyes:


i see what you mean though Mickey. i was only planning on a couple flights just so he doesnt forget how to use his wings.
he burns up plenty food when moulting though.
give him a whole quail just now and he will gain nearly 1oz if not flying or hold weight if he is flying and chasing (ok its a dummy or carcass just now but one day ........:supz: )
give him the same size of quail when he is moulting and he drops nearly 1oz.

[Dave G]

sean the last 3 seasons ive put my bird up for the molt feed him up and just check on him but dont handle,as when your birds at fat weight they dont need you and if the feathers are in blood and you go in he bashes himself about this could damage his feathers,also can cause fret marks on his feathers,ive free lofted mine every year then once molt finished cut the food back then you will see he will start to come to the fist again ,then catch him up stick him on the bow a little manning then get him on the creance for a seession or two then off hunting

[Tarqers]

and i bet he still loves you,,,tarqs your hawk that is

[Dave G]

had him on the creance for about half an hour then he was free flown 1lb 7 1/4 oz without any probs ,hes a good hawk as hes a greedy pig ive flown him at 1lb 12 oz and he still comes for food

[MickeyDredd]

overheat in aberdeenshire???????????????? surely you jest:rolleyes:


Sorry mate, I thought you were flying him indoors with the heating on ;) :lol:

[Tarqers]

i have a little boy this year,1lb 1oz,,,tarqs

[Sean]

i would like to leave him in an open fronted avairy with no handling, as could he maybe shut up then permantly lol? releases whos the boss lol? but id be owrried about maggots and things on bones, and what makes em moult faster, handling or not handling. and also when do u takeyours out? my mate takes his out while theres a feather or two still coming out.

[Tarqers]

just give yourself enough time before the clocks go back ,that way your,ve still got the evenings,,,,tarqs

[IAmTheWeasel]

i would not worry about what weight he is just feed him lots and good stuff. plenty of rat,quail, mice, rabbit etc all the good stuff
I would worry about the weight during the moult. Being fat and sitting on perches ALL day long is simply asking for bumblefoot if they are too heavy. I have talked about this with several experts and they agree that weight control should be practiced during the moult to a degree. You don't want a porker of a bird for other reasons also such as taking weeks to bring the weight back down for the hunting season to begin.
I weight my birds every day with few exeptions to help identify any illness that may have set it besides plain old weight control.

[Chris S]

i have a little boy this year,1lb 1oz,,,tarqs
nice to see someone else still like the little harrises cant beat them.
all my birds are free lofted they see me about but are happy to do there own thing if you are that botherd about waste food go in and clean him out its a harris so i doubt if he will mind its not like a pr gos

[IAmTheWeasel]

Someone mentioned the bird bouncing around the mew damaging feathers. This is why I handle the birds every day. It's just like the hunting season routine with the exeption of no hunting and the bird has it's weight raised about two-three ounces above flight weight. I have a fast moult as I leave the lights on in the mews or the bird is kept indoors and the feathers are in perfect shape with no fret marks what-so-ever. I beleive that the social interaction with the bird on a daily basis provides for a much more steady charge in the field, plus it is good husbandry in my eyes since after all, this isn't a shotgun we're putting away for the season.
Cheers,

[HawkMan69UK]

i freeloft my pr female gos in an open fronted mews 10 foot by 8 i go in when she is in moult with no problems i never let her get obise and easy to judge by the food they leave as long as its quality and raptor essentials always speed up the moult and quality food meeans quality moult now she has had a first class season plenty of crashing in cover a few somersaults on hare and lots of head of game not a single broken feather:supz: even my musket in an open fronted mews and he has dropped a deck already... def makes it easier when you get them out for the season never takes me more than a week or so to get them back in hunting

[Sean]

and how often would use feed raptor essentials? a pinch everyday?

[HawkMan69UK]

yes sean but obviously quality food is a must:supz:

[DeathFromAbove]

your relationship with your bird is a simbiosis,for you to imagin for a minute that you are buddies is at best very misguided,ever imagined for a minute that the bird does not want to be bothered when its fat,,,tarqs good thread though. ps its that sort of sentimental bull which will stop you being the best you can be,,,,tarqs

Again I disagree, and i'm under no delusion that autringer and hawk are bozom buddies during the moult as i know there's no sentimentality with birds of prey toward their keepers, and if it were a more highly strung hawk such as a gos i'd be inclined to agree with you along the seclusion part (the non cleanliness side is a sure fire way to reach disaster leaving carcasses and rotting meat/bones in there all summer!! It's basic husbandry 101 and am shocked that you could possibly think that's a good idea?!?)...... but....... unlike other accipiters/buteos, harris's are naturally social birds and live wild in a social group and because of such like company or at least to see the day to day goings on, and by providing this you end up with a bird who's nearly as tame as when flying. I don't think it's sentimental bull at all and i don't think it will impede me from being as good as i can get in the slightest... if you think about it, maybe its that sort of callace attitude toward it that will stop you being the best you can be, after all that point is an equal argument both sides.

[Tarqers]

if you read my comments you will see not once do i surgest leaving flesh and bones is a good idea,i mearly pointed out that beatles, and other insects if left, do a more than adaquate job,in an ideal world im sure every body would love to keep ther birds in an immaculate state however the regrowth of accipitter feathers is a serious affair,animal husbandry when i learned it was about basing the needs of animals around you,not the other way round,but hey thats before the liberals took over,,,tarqs,,,,still a good tread,,,
ps callace ?????

[DeathFromAbove]

Just re-read the first posts and granted you don't mention leaving flesh so I apologise for that mate, altho it is insinuated, that is, gives the general imression that all should be left for the insects, but that's a moot point. And yes animal husbandry is very much still about basing the needs of animals around you, and I don't think for one minuite that what i do is the other way around, surely a cleaner environment is a healthyer environment....there's a difference between wiping your ass and tearing the skin off..... I would be a poor falconer indeed if I failed to realise how important clean, strong, quality feather regrowth is, and if there were any problem with what I did then I would change it immediately as the bird and her welfare is of upmost importance to me. My bird comes out of the moult feather perfect and with a well rounded temperament that makes it easy and a pleasure to get her up and going again having lost none of the killer instinct needed.... the results speak for themselves.

As I said, this is only how I moult a harris due to their social nature, more highly strung accipiters need a different approach.

[Tarqers]

peace man,,,tarqs

[DeathFromAbove]

:supz: agreed mate..... altho was a good debate tho hehe.

[Tarqers]

:supz: agreed mate..... altho was a good debate tho hehe.
thats what this site should be about ,absorbing knowledge through imformed debate,,,,tarqs

[DeathFromAbove]

absolutely, hit the nail right on the head there. nice day here today so with any luck i'll be 'playing' with the bunny population this arvo :razz:

[Tarqers]

weve got the rain you had earlier,,,,tarqs

[DeathFromAbove]

aye it was **** here yesterday.. rain, wind, dark moody depressing sky... least you know tomorrow should be good for ya mate... something to look forward to.

[Johnny Abbott]

sean the last 3 seasons ive put my bird up for the molt feed him up and just check on him but dont handle,as when your birds at fat weight they dont need you and if the feathers are in blood and you go in he bashes himself about this could damage his feathers,also can cause fret marks on his feathers,ive free lofted mine every year then once molt finished cut the food back then you will see he will start to come to the fist again ,then catch him up stick him on the bow a little manning then get him on the creance for a seession or two then off hunting
exactly the same as i do with my fhh and for the harrisis probably the best way she sees me every day and if she wants to come and greet me she will fly to the front as she does on most days.and if she doesnt she stays at the back of the avairy

[Osiris]

i agree with most posts replied.

When in moult, i like to keep a good manned bird, clean aviary/mews, maintain a good moulting weight and teather out most days and offer a bath everyday. Give suppliments few times a month too (i use Raptor Essentials). Dont like to just leave the bird in their aviary/mews till their fully moulted. Not fare on them i believe. Everyone has their own ways of doing things. Do whats best for your bird and not yourself :D

[Kennelre]

I free loft my FHH throughout the moult and go into the aviary every day to clean up, change the water and have a little chat (sad but true). I don't take her out at all whilst she's moulting but the aviary is built in the centre of things and she has loads of visual stimulus. Its my experience that if I sit on the low wall beside the aviary she will frequently hop down, sit on the pea gravel alongside and make little noises. I'm not doing some Disney routine here because none of this alters the fact that shes a demon in the field, but I honestly believe that she needs the opportunity to remain involved on her own terms.Shes very easy to get back into action at the end of moult,has a lovely temperament and is rock steady with everything except hot air balloons. You could start a motorbike next to her and she wouldn't move and I'll do everything I can to maintain that temperament. Also I ensure that her last flight of the season involves a well earned kill and I won't put her down to moult without that final sortie.

[Albie]

I handle my hawks daily during the moult as I would during the hunting season. I bring them out, weight them, feed them, perch them out in the yard, spray them down with water, etc. etc. With this activity, it maintains a calm bird when you want to start the season off again. It takes one or two sessions on the creance and I'm back out hunting. Don't know about ya'll, but I only like to man a bird once....when it's trapped.....
Me too, and this season my MHH was three times on the creance and then free.
I found he was a lot steadier this year too.
Albie..

[Coedhirion]

I free loft and go in almost every day to change the bath water and pick up fluff, feathers bones etc. that way there is no nasty smell and maggots in hot weather. I keep a milk crate which gets washed regularly inside and sit on this some times. This way the birds are so used to me they dont crash around damaging feathers. They often come down to investigate and can be caught up without fuss. I dont bother to weigh very often, just feel the keel, but I know the amount each needs to keep at fat weight. Feed rat or quail etc 2 times a week, but only feed 6 days a week so one day the system gets to clear out. Feed thro a hatch so they dont see me, but they know who is pushing that food draw through :lol: