What to do?

[Sokoly]

Yesterday I took one goshawk from a person who gave it away. The male goshawk is not in its prime health. Namely the owner has feed it cold meat from the refrigirator. The hawk has difficulties breathing and the inside of its mouth-beak is kind of blue ( like broosed). When it gets excited it's breathing hard and something is cracking inside the bird. What to do ? The goshawk is eating but not as much as it should.Bare in mind that there are no bird specialist vet's over here. So the health of this bird is enterely in my hands.

[PeregrinesUK]

id say first things first get some anti-biotics in to him, and some good food. not a lot more you can really do with no proper avian vet. Id also keep him away from your other birds .....

[Sokoly]

The hawk is well isolated. What anti-biotics would you suggest and what is the best dose for a 700 gram bird. The owner is an idiot who want's to be a falconer. And it is not appropriate to say it here on this forum what was he feeding this bird. Disgusting

[Dude]

tylosin, if things getting worst than amoxicylin B, but sprout will help ya PM him with this problem I just guessing... I hope the gos will be fine soon!

Dan.

[StormRider]

Have you checked the birds crop? Are there white spots inside its mouth also. depending on what it has been fed (as you say disgusting) it may have a compacted crop or even frounce. The cackling from within indicates some possible form of lung infection. To be honest I wouldnt even be ****ing about at the moment, I would get that bird straight to a vet. If you dont have a specialist avian vet any vet will do just for the sake of getting the antibiotics.
Good luck mate and keep us informed.
STU

[Sokoly]

The bird cannot swallow. It is trying to eat but cannot swallow the food. No frounce no trichinelosis it is something I havent seen befor. The crop is empty. I am becoming nervous because the bird flu is very close to my country. It is confirmed in Turkey. Thanks guys

[Dude]

if its bird flu the sinuses of gos have to swollen as a vet told me here in hungary what was the place like where the bird was kept before? can it be asper? eh we r just guessing...... PM SPROUT FIRST!

[Roel_Birds]

When you say the inside of the beak is bleu, this idicates cyanosis. The red bloodcells are loaded with carbondioxide and can't exchange it properly with oxygen. So there is something wrong with the gas-exchange in the lungs. The long itself could be damaged or full of fluid (pneumonia) or granuloma (aspergillosis). Or there is an obstruction of the airways of some sort so there is no descent ventilation.

Because it has so little oxygen in his blood, it choques immediately when it has a piece of food in his throat and he flicks it away. This is a reflex to survive.

Immediately start feeding the hawk with a croptube and add some glucose to the mixture. Go see a vet and have an X-ray taken so you can see if there is an obstruction in the airways. Then you can decide what to do further.

Good luck!!!

[StormRider]

How has this bird been transported about? Has it been in the back of a van where it is common for exhaust fumes to gather.
STU

[Scruff]

oh dear.. deffinately with the sounds you are hearing, seems respiratory to me with possible effect from a blockage or fungal infection. check for discharge at nares and dull/slitted eyes; but anyhoo: deffinately go with Roel Birds with this one! get to any vet first off, and go from there.

[Sokoly]

The throath hasswallen. The goshawk barely swallows the food, so I tube fed it, with glycose added. The root of the tonque is swallen and it is gasping for air. Please tell me what kind of anti-biotick to administer in the food.
Thanks

[Maxwell]

Just keeping this thread current...

[PeregrinesUK]

i like to use marbrocyl but i think you should take him to a vet and get a direct injection sounds like the sooner the better for the meds

[Sokoly]

Is there some substitute for marbrocyl? I can't find it here?

[StormRider]

Sokoly, by the time you've ****ed about trying yourself your bird could be dead. Just go and get some help from a vet and then take it from there. I dont see why you are holding out here. Lets not make the bloody bird suffer eh. We can all guess and provide details on how iot should be treated but we havent seen the bird. It can be more dangerous to administer the bird some form of drug that it doesnt actually require.
STU

[Renton]

Sokoly, by the time you've ****ed about trying yourself your bird could be dead. Just go and get some help from a vet and then take it from there. I dont see why you are holding out here. Lets not make the bloody bird suffer eh. We can all guess and provide details on how iot should be treated but we havent seen the bird. It can be more dangerous to administer the bird some form of drug that it doesnt actually require.
STU

Only too true. If in doubt get the bird to a vet, fast!

[Maxwell]

I know from experience - we are lucky to have not only well qualified avian vets, but most of our vets have a good general background anyway.

I would hope - if Sokoly had the option he would be there already!

Is there a vet worth consulting over there Sokoly? - If not, do you need any telephone numbers - vets in the uk - who could advise you?

Keep us posted Sokoly.

Whatever you do - do it sooner rather than later.

[StormRider]

Yo Sokoly,
How did you get on with the bird m8? Did you find out what the problem was?
STU

[Maxwell]

The bird didn't make it.

[Harrisii]

another gut wrencher.
if only people knew what they were getting themselves into.
i had a guy go to my mates tonight to tell him he wanted to buy a hawk.
he has read nothing, knows nothing, and thinks that you just buy a hawk and go hunt it.
whats that all about?? obviously he is away to think again.

[Maxwell]

He's not one of those builders is he?
Scarey - unfortunately Harris's and also a lot of owls are too readily available now and people are often not bothered/respectful enough to find out more about their future charges.
Breeders need to be more responsible in who they sell to.

[Harrisii]

He's not one of those builders is he?
Scarey - unfortunately Harris's and also a lot of owls are too readily available now and people are often not bothered/respectful enough to find out more about their future charges.
Breeders need to be more responsible in who they sell to.

no not one of the builders.
and i agree about breeders being more responsible. also. it aint such a bad thing about the apprecntice scheme. i wasnt in favour before but i am starting to slide towards a scheme where beginers have to meet standards.

[Maxwell]

Definitely - but surely legislation needs to be put in place to reinforce any such scheme - or will that come later?
I wondered how successful and worthwhile - those opting in to Varmints course - found it. Or have I missed an updated thread somewhere? I know the initial thread was blocked, but would be interested to see how folks rated it. Have they all earned their certificates???

[Harrisii]

i havent thought the whole proccess through fully, as it would hurt my head.
there are better than me who could come up with this.
it just appears that far too many numpties are out there getting birds without proper background and knowledge. shame as its always the birds who suffer.

[Graham Stuart]

One of the main problems is the availabilty of cheap bird be it owls or hawks if someone thinks they can make a quick buck by breading their birds then have trouble selling them the price goes down and you get the numpties buying it to show off to their mates and resulting in a lost bird or a dead bird, but what the hell they only paid pennies for them anyway, lets all club together and get some legislation in breeding birds, and being able to buy one as soon as possible...the G man

[Sokoly]

The bird is still being crop tube fad. I give her sumamed- a broad spectrum anti-biotick. The goshawk is feeling better. The swelling has decreased.Dear mates I allready wrote that there is no bird specialist vet where I live. Believe me I would have conntacted him/her even before I posted this thread.
Thanks for the advices I aprechiate them.
In consideration of how every other wannabe falconer is able to buy a BOP. I have wrote on another thread - Imprint falcon good and bad bits.Please visit it.
I was irritated by the person who gave me the sick goshawk, we were all posting about. My birds are completelly fine. I made that statement because not everybody should be allowed to become falconer. By allowing some people becoming a falconer we are degrading our second most important thing in our lives - falconry. This not responcible persons are a shame and they present falconry to the public in bad way.They call them selfs falconers but trust me, they don't deserve the title. A falconer should be responcible person who understands the nature of the BOP.Not somebody who didn't know what to do in his life - and suddenly decided to try falconry.

[Harrisii]

so glad she is hanging in there. well done. hope she comes through it, i really do.
i agree not everyone is worthy of the title "falconer". to my mind its a special breed and a special achievment. ive been flying my HHs for a few years and very successfully. i dont call myself a falconer. i prefer to say that i participate in falconry. i aint seen it all, and done it all so wouldnt claim it.

another thing barney. you are right mate. they cost so little.
however. there are millions of people out there with plenty of money and wouldnt think of paying £1000 for a harris etc. these people with spoiled kids, plenty on the hip that want to dabble in this and that. high prices wouldnt stop it.
i have been practicing falconry for a few years and i am rather successfull with my birds but if a harris cost £1000 or so i wouldnt have got into it. so it cuts off people who would otherwise treat it with the respect it deserves, but does not stop idiots getting involved.
an apprenticeship scheme would at least give people the background knowledge and most would realise it aint as easy as it looks and not even get started. only those with a deep feeling and love of raptors would chase it up and get more involved and stick at it.
PROBLEM IS FALCONRY COURSES COST TOO MUCH.
illinformed people who see a display etc, think thats it . you take out the bird and it does all that without asking. if only. when they realise the man hours, the cost, the equipment and the whole thing aint so easy they will pull out before getting far. falconry terminology is often enough to put some off.
because people dont know whats involved that they go out and get a bird, thinking its easy, realise it aint then then try to learn. result: dead bird

i heard of a guy who had a harris a kestrel and a buzzard. my mate asked him, what do they fly at (weight). he didnt know cause he didnt have scales and he didnt know that they had a flying weight. oblivious!! knew nothing!!!
the buzzards ate the kestrel, (housed together), and the harris died when the owner painted the inside of the shed with gloss and left the bird in there overnight. thats what we are dealing with here. for the sake of our sport and the birds we all love, this has got to stop.
i dont claim to know the answers, i dont claim to have the solutions. there are many great people out there who could come up with something to help prevent this type of scinario. (BHC) (BFC), ETC, ETC.

[Sprout]

Just found this thread. Especially with Goshawks and the signs you are talking about I'd be especially worried by aspergillus (could also be other things too). Ideally it needs swabbing and bloods/xrays etc but if vets are not available can you order from e-bay?? One thing that may help is to buy a nebuliser and F10 and nebulise the gos. If there is a large aspergillus granuloma then the only option is surgery but in early cases or diffuse spread then nebulisation will help. Of course it may be any number of other things which a diagnosis is needed for but without such diagnosis this may help??

[Sokoly]

Hello mates, I am proud to inform you that after all this period the Gos was constantly improoving his condition. Finally a week ago started to feed on his own. The coloration in the throaght became normal, and the bird got back it's normal stamina, and characteristick behavior of a goshawk - :-) It was a really close call. I want to thank you all for your advices it turned out they were of a lot of help. I plan to keep it for two more weeks and than after all it will go back to the wild - since it is a passage goshawk that was caught from a person who didn't treat it well. I am very happy to say that I managed to help this bird. Ofcourse to mantion it again I would not have done it without your unselfish advices. Thanks again :-)

[Graham Stuart]

good news mate:wink: