Longwing

[Luke Davison]

I have been doing falconry for 1 and a half years and i considered getting alongwing for a first bird, nothing to big but something to have a rewarding catch. a friend said either start with a harris or a red-tail. But i find them a bit dawnting but with for example a saker i feel much more in controll, however what do you think abot this?

[Tr1gger]

Well i feel that a harris or red-tail are far less dawnting then a saker, falcons are not recommend as a first bird. Harris' and red-tails are very nice birds and fantastic begginers and advanced birds

[Shaun Byrne]

I have been doing falconry for 1 and a half years and i considered getting alongwing for a first bird, nothing to big but something to have a rewarding catch. a friend said either start with a harris or a red-tail. But i find them a bit dawnting but with for example a saker i feel much more in controll, however what do you think abot this?

How do you mean "doing falconry"?

Do you already have a bird?

Any chance you could fill in your profile?

[Kiwanja]

I think i would stick to a harris or redtail for a first bird mate rather than a saker,you would stand a better chance of still having it at the end of the season.They will give you all you want from a first bird.
Hope this helps ,Mike

[JB29]

Luke

First thing to remember is you are never in control. Second flying a falcon you are closer to being totally out of control. Third they can all foot you. Sounds like what you need is a Male Harris, please don't start with a falcon.

[Luke Davison]

Thank you very much for all your replies, and i can safley say that in my case longwing shall have to wait till i am more experienced! for the time being its back to the Harris's.

:D

[Shaun Byrne]

Thanks for filling in your profile Luke, it makes it a lot easier for people to answer according to your age/ circumstances etc. Oh and thanks for the PM.

I agree that a HH or RT would be better for you to start with but as has been said dozens of times on here before, not until you are out of full time education and have the time to devote. Hope you understand the reasons.

[Coedhirion]

Sakers are great birds, and when you have learnt more and have some one with lots of experience to assist, you may find one would suit you well. They do have a draw back, they migrate!! so get the weight wrong and it wont just be in the next county it will be sunning itself abroad!!!
So find yourself a friendly local falconer or several and go out and enjoy yourself with them when ever they will let you, and let them have the headaches, vets bills and worries for the time being.
Have fun and hope some one takes you under their wing for plenty of flying fun. You will probably find a Harris or Redtail will take your fancy one day, watch them and you will learn for yourself which bird will fit best with your quarry, land and equipment. All the best

[Luke Davison]

Hawka,
I understand what you mean about devoting to the bird outside of school, but there is an oppertunity that i could perhaps keep a bird at school. My school is a boarding school in buckinghamshire in the countryside, with plenty ofrabbits that even ferriting cant subdue!
But i suppose you have to look at the future ( university and such).
what do you think?

[Osiris]

harris', red tails etc. are good for your first bird, depending on your circumstances etc. such as what you are going to do with it (hunting etc.) Falcons, i would not reccommend to anyone as a beginners bird. They are completely different to hawks/buzzards as you may well know!

Falcons are extremely agile and mysterious birds but excellent to fly and hunt with and to care for. Maybe in the future once you have had more experience in many aspects of BOP and Falconry then you may consider getting one and i wish you every success. Just please, take your time! :D

cheers, jamie

[Kentish Falconry]

Sakers are great birds, and when you have learnt more and have some one with lots of experience to assist, you may find one would suit you well. They do have a draw back, they migrate!! so get the weight wrong and it wont just be in the next county it will be sunning itself abroad!!!
So find yourself a friendly local falconer or several and go out and enjoy yourself with them when ever they will let you, and let them have the headaches, vets bills and worries for the time being.
Have fun and hope some one takes you under their wing for plenty of flying fun. You will probably find a Harris or Redtail will take your fancy one day, watch them and you will learn for yourself which bird will fit best with your quarry, land and equipment. All the best

Hi Luke Welcome to the Forum! I am glad you took my advice and joined up, as I said on the phone I am not against you taking on a Falcon as a first bird but given your curcumstances a Male Harris Hawk would suit you better but first you must get all your equipment ready and housing also read some good books for training try "Training Birds of Prey" by Jamima Parry-Jones, try and find a Falconry Club in your area and join it then you can get some experiance with the birds and see first hand which species would be best for you. DO NOT RUSH INTO ANYTHING!!! know what you are doing first.
Coedhirion you say Sakers migrate this is always said of Sakers and people tend to believe it but it is an old wifes tale, Sakers get lost when in the wrong hands, weighing your bird and what you think is the correct weight is not always correct, if you watch any good Arab Falconer, and these guys have flown them for centuries, you will see that when they feel the Saker for weight and fitness they use their hand open with the thumb under one wing and the fingers under the other wing, the reason they do this is Sakers sore fat under the wing, feeling the Keel bone as you would with a Peregrine will tell you little as I have seen Sakers come out of a Chamber with the Keel bone being very sharp and most Falconers would say they were ready to train. I have flown Sakers since 1967 and I can say with all honesty that I have never personally lost a Saker whilst hunting, I am not saying that you can't or I can't loose one as anything is possible but knowing the bird and understanding it's ways is important. Once trained and at the correct weight they are great birds and will take feather all day long but you can also fly them at Rabbits and we do hunt Desert Hare with them in the Gulf.

Hope this helps a little

Terry:supz:

[tawoodee]

Hi Luke Welcome to the Forum! I am glad you took my advice and joined up, as I said on the phone I am not against you taking on a Falcon as a first bird but given your curcumstances a Male Harris Hawk would suit you better but first you must get all your equipment ready and housing also read some good books for training try "Training Birds of Prey" by Jamima Parry-Jones, try and find a Falconry Club in your area and join it then you can get some experiance with the birds and see first hand which species would be best for you. DO NOT RUSH INTO ANYTHING!!! know what you are doing first.
Coedhirion you say Sakers migrate this is always said of Sakers and people tend to believe it but it is an old wifes tale, Sakers get lost when in the wrong hands, weighing your bird and what you think is the correct weight is not always correct, if you watch any good Arab Falconer, and these guys have flown them for centuries, you will see that when they feel the Saker for weight and fitness they use their hand open with the thumb under one wing and the fingers under the other wing, the reason they do this is Sakers sore fat under the wing, feeling the Keel bone as you would with a Peregrine will tell you little as I have seen Sakers come out of a Chamber with the Keel bone being very sharp and most Falconers would say they were ready to train. I have flown Sakers since 1967 and I can say with all honesty that I have never personally lost a Saker whilst hunting, I am not saying that you can't or I can't loose one as anything is possible but knowing the bird and understanding it's ways is important. Once trained and at the correct weight they are great birds and will take feather all day long but you can also fly them at Rabbits and we do hunt Desert Hare with them in the Gulf.

Hope this helps a little

Terry:supz:

Good answer Terry. The only thing I still struggle with, and this isn't by any means a personal dig at you I promise, is that of what is a suitable beginners bird. Is there such a thing? I still get this little feeling that when in doubt the best thing to arm yourself with is the poor old Harris' Hawk. I'm not sure any more if the common buzzard of yesteryear fills this gap as it once did (remember when the pecking order was something like; common buzzard - red-tailed hawk - goshawk or peregrine?). I guess it's a subject that will be argued over time and time again with nobody really drawing any conclusions. Realistically, being a novice to falconry in this day an age must be a bit daunting (when was it never you ask?). The common buzzard if opted for, and if you can locate one is still going to be 99% of the time a brief stepping stone to one of the 'bigger, faster, more aggressive, better hunter blah blah blah' birds that a novice will aspire towards getting his or her grubby gauntlet on! My point in all this is, how many people once they are armed with their newly acquired, trained or untrained Harris' Hawk will actually do the hawk justice. We are talking about a highly intelligent, adaptable, social predator that will give many hours of enjoyable commited hawking in the hands of a skilled falconer. How many people I wonder (even folk offering their services as 'teachers' of our art) advise the use of hoods when training hawks. Oh sorry, my mistake! Silly me, of course you don't need and never will need to hood a Harris' Hawk. Tosh. The hood has been and still is one of the finest and most useful pieces of equipment in any falconers or austringers (if you don't know what it means - look it up) armoury. It's like the idiots who will tell you that a Harris' Hawk can't be lost, or you don't need to use telemmetry if you fly one. There is an ever growing number of lost birds of prey (ask the IBR) including, yes you've guessed it folks, our good old friend the Harris' Hawk. I still don't think, and it is of course my personal opinion that there is a bird that fills the category of 'beginners hawk'. I've lost count of the number of badly mannered, unhappy, screaming, aggressive Harris' Hawks that I have been unfortunate to come in contact with. Sadly they have all been 2nd hand hawks, and the trend goes on. How many of these birds (like many others & including parrots!) get bags of attention in the first couple of weeks until the novelty wears off, or the budding falconer realises that he or she doesn't have as much time to devote to the sport as they would like. The poor old hawk (like many) ends up tethered to its bow for 24hrs a day, six days a week and in many cases will get a quick whizz around a local park. Anyway, enough ranting, you get the piccie. Why don't people sign themselves up to a good falconry course, weigh up the pros and cons, buy some good books on the subject, maybe (if they are deadly serious at this stage) start getting bits of equipment organised before they inflict themselves on MR or Mrs Harris' Hawk? We really should employ the strict legislation and tuition schemes that our friends across the pond have to go through in order to pursue this fascinating sport. A few years ago I encouraged an apprentice to train from scratch an eyass male red-tailed hawk. His criteria was to employ as many appropriate falconry disciplines as he saw fit, and under my guidance, from day one in the training of this bird. This also included the use of the hood. The result was a bird that is a delight to hawk with, and hopefully will be until the day he catches his last rabbit. He is a total credit to the bloke that started as a novice, dedicated himself 110% to falconry, and has since gone on to train from scratch a variety of equally good raptors.

Bye for now.