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  #21  
Old 13-09-2011, 10:25 PM
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Nick Freeman
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

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Originally Posted by HallBeck View Post
If by "Glaister" you mean Glasier - then you are right. JPJ is indeed Philip Glasier's daughter.
Lol
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  #22  
Old 13-09-2011, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

I don't think it is necessary to bash Bradshaw any more that Glasier (who made a few mistakes in some of his advice over the years, and who hasn't). What is far more important is to understand were this writers are coming from. Different methods with each having goals and progressive step to achieve those goals. It seems hard for some to accept more than one method can work. I appreciate loyalty to a countryman/women who is well respected but please don't be ignorant toward a writer you don't know. I still refer to some of your most popular writers as well as North American and I would read Spanish, German, Japanese, Arabic, etc if I could to learn how they dealt with common issues and also some of their unique issues. Most of us on this side of the pond were raised, like yourselves, on Glasier, Mavrogordato, Upton, Stevens, Hollingshead, Fox, Jones, Woodford, Ford, etc because their material was all that was available. But North American writers slowly come into their own. Beebe, Webster, McElroy, McDermott, Haak, etc and many of the opportunities, birds and habitat as well as the evolved methods and equipment is different yet works.

Now when it comes to the HH there are some American that really know their stuff (for the conditions they train for) and there are obviously some of your folks that have achieved great results with your birds for the conditions you have. I'm sure there are many more HH being flown in the UK than in NA but at the top end and no matter the training method great things are being achieved............... no need to slam the writers or the methods.

Bill
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2016, 02:29 PM
Airborne_Jeff Airborne_Jeff is offline
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

So, I stumbled upon this thread, and I really was kinda taken aback by some of the comments. Toby Bradshaw who? Um, how about one of the people responsible for the selective breeding of Harris Hawks, working with the Coulson's, and responsible for a majority of the bloodlines of Harris Hawks sold in the U.S. and abroad. Who also happens to be Biologist, with a focus in genetic trait adaptation. Oh, and who has flown Harris Hawks for 30+ years. And, also has a guest article in North American Falconry and Hunting Hawks.

His method says not to feed on the fist, to call to the fist. His method is to call to the fist, and toss a tidbit to the ground. When feeding up, do so on the lure, not on the fist. This is to show the falconer as a safe place, and hunting position, not a food source. This also helps in diverting young Harris hawks from becoming screamers and associating the falconer as a food source.

I am really surprised that so many people spouted off about someone they apparently know nothing about, instead of taking a few to maybe find out that the guy might actually know what he is talking about.
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  #24  
Old 07-07-2016, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

An interesting thread, over the years Ive trained harris hawks, goshawks & spars and would suggest when getting a young harris hawk thats been left with its parents for as long as possible (at least 18-20 weeks old) before controlling its food intake & starting to train.
All of my hawks I have trained to the fist also to a lure, which can be very useful on a cold winters day to tempt them down from the top of a tree. With food association its the Pavlovs dog routine, but I always feel that gorging on the first twenty or so kills marries the bird to the quarry.
You can see it with goshawks on fresh kills they have that pterodactyl glazed eye stare when feeding on warm blood, the alternative you have to offer is carrion.
What do we want to eat on a cold winters night a warm stew or a cold salad.
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  #25  
Old 07-07-2016, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

Further to my earlier post just looked at Toby Bradshaws falconry web page and noticed the following quote

'The hawk should come to see the falconer not as a direct source of food, but as a source of opportunities to hunt for its own food.'

Repeatability & food association will always come into play. At the end of the day we are servants to the hawk and a good dog is a good servant to make a good hawk, if a female press a ferret into service & bolt plenty of rabbits. HH are sociable & quite clever, they seem remember where they've brained your neighbours chickens!!!
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  #26  
Old 07-07-2016, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne_Jeff View Post
So, I stumbled upon this thread, and I really was kinda taken aback by some of the comments. Toby Bradshaw who? Um, how about one of the people responsible for the selective breeding of Harris Hawks, working with the Coulson's, and responsible for a majority of the bloodlines of Harris Hawks sold in the U.S. and abroad. Who also happens to be Biologist, with a focus in genetic trait adaptation. Oh, and who has flown Harris Hawks for 30+ years. And, also has a guest article in North American Falconry and Hunting Hawks.

His method says not to feed on the fist, to call to the fist. His method is to call to the fist, and toss a tidbit to the ground. When feeding up, do so on the lure, not on the fist. This is to show the falconer as a safe place, and hunting position, not a food source. This also helps in diverting young Harris hawks from becoming screamers and associating the falconer as a food source.

I am really surprised that so many people spouted off about someone they apparently know nothing about, instead of taking a few to maybe find out that the guy might actually know what he is talking about.
I have to agree with you JPJ and Phillip Glasier are well known and associated with starting and running the centre at Newent. I know that Mr. Glasier did a lot of hunting with his birds but Toby Bradshaw has devoted his life to hunting and breeding the Harris Hawk. He has way more in depth experience with the species that either Mr. Glasier or JPJ, in my opinion.
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  #27  
Old 07-07-2016, 09:32 PM
Shaun Bannister Shaun Bannister is offline
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

lol its amazing how something so straightforward can become or seem like rocket science,get them at the right age ,don't let them get hungry enough during the manning phase to even want to make a call ,if it was an accipiter i can see the reasoning behind TB's thinking but i do think it is overthinking, i've trained many many hh and all to the fist ,fed handled ,anywhere anytime etc because guess what ? thats where i want it unless i want it elsewhere ,don't let them get creance bound and get them chasing asap ,all very straightforward stuff and none of it you will be able to assess from any book as good as they are
try to have an experienced eye with you in the early days

And remember if in doubt give them food ,better a fat bird than a dead one or even a noisy one
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  #28  
Old 08-07-2016, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Bannister View Post
lol its amazing how something so straightforward can become or seem like rocket science,get them at the right age ,don't let them get hungry enough during the manning phase to even want to make a call ,if it was an accipiter i can see the reasoning behind TB's thinking but i do think it is overthinking, i've trained many many hh and all to the fist ,fed handled ,anywhere anytime etc because guess what ? thats where i want it unless i want it elsewhere ,don't let them get creance bound and get them chasing asap ,all very straightforward stuff and none of it you will be able to assess from any book as good as they are
Try to have an experienced eye with you in the early days

and remember if in doubt give them food ,better a fat bird than a dead one or even a noisy one
Lol yes that's it Shaun people look at it all too deeply I think. I have always trained every hawk of mine in the same manner call to the fist on creance a relatively short distance but once coming instantly get it loose then get it killing. Too many people waste a lot of time on the creance, in my opininion once the bird is killing for itself that seems to stop all these bad habits setting in.

The reason for my earlier post was that Toby Bradshaw has spent his life working with the species mentioned, akin to the Coulsons. However I find their information interesting but wouldn't necessarily train a bird to their methods entirely I have my own opinions.
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  #29  
Old 18-02-2017, 08:09 PM
Dannyg Dannyg is offline
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Some good points of view on here.


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  #30  
Old 19-02-2017, 03:33 PM
HCMcElroy HCMcElroy is offline
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Default Re: Harris Hawk training method

Dr. Bradshaw is well respected over this side of the pond but we call the HH to the fist both passage and domestically bred. We hawk quail from the horse and use tidbits about 3 times each hunt. Our hawks follow along but must be called forward now and again. Agree some hawks scream and others do not read comments by the Peregrine Fund in raising peregrines.

Harry.
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