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  #11  
Old 28-02-2015, 08:42 PM
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Graeme Neilson
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

I de yolk chicks due to the fat/cholesterol. I will use whole chicks (with yolk sacks) if I want to take up a birds weight quickly or if the bird is a bit under the weather - the yolk being a liquid is easy for the bird to digest so it will get energy quickly. I will also sometimes give the birds whole chicks if I know it is going to be cold once again the yolk will be easy for the bird to digest so quick energy.

I have heard breeders saying whole chicks are best for breeding and also feeding to young birds. Raises the question of what is a quality diet.

There is also the mess of whole chicks which puts me off from using them as a rule.

I also give the chicks a pinch of raptor essentials twice a weeks and where possible vary the diet.

Quick question. Has anyone heard that if giving too many whole chicks (with yolk sack) causes the bird beak to grow quicker meaning it has to be coped more. I remember hearing this years ago when I was first starting but I can't remember who told me or is it just an old wives tale.
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  #12  
Old 28-02-2015, 08:49 PM
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Rab Marshall Rab Marshall is offline
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

De-yolked they're fed as keek and don't even look like real food

Atb,Rab
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  #13  
Old 28-02-2015, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johny View Post
Hi Tony,

That'd be mine too, and a wise post you've written, if I could suggest it's so,

There can be debate neverending regarding the value/balance or not of specific nutrients, vitamins and so on, when feeding a hawk, or indeed people.

When common sense applies, there can be a much more adequate outcome and understanding of matters, not in that order necessarily. Not long after my recent kebab I performed exceedingly well, so it was said, and today I am supplementing myself with all manner of healthier treats, so as to retain my physical splendour and sustain myself at all, for a few more minutes.

All the best

Johny
Hi Johny,

I suppose this is another of those times when I bemoan a lack of, not common-sense, but hawk-sense.

I'm guessing that there's more common-sense than usual regarding what to feed a hawk, as common-sense is likely to lead the falconer down one of two routes.
One, that it's best to feed the nearest approximation to a wild hawk's diet, or two, to take very seriously the advice of an esteemed specialist vet.
To feed de-yolked (and largely skinned, as I do) DOCs, seems actually to be anything but common-sense.

Of course, the food itself is only a part of the overall management of a hawk, and whilst particular types of food have different properties, those properties will vary according to both freshness, and the physical and mental condition of the hawk itself.

One of the falconer's real skills is to know what to feed, when, and why. Until falconers have those skills, they're probably best to follow common-sense.

Best wishes,

Tony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony James View Post
Hi Johny,

I suppose this is another of those times when I bemoan a lack of, not common-sense, but hawk-sense.

I'm guessing that there's more common-sense than usual regarding what to feed a hawk, as common-sense is likely to lead the falconer down one of two routes.
One, that it's best to feed the nearest approximation to a wild hawk's diet, or two, to take very seriously the advice of an esteemed specialist vet.
To feed de-yolked (and largely skinned, as I do) DOCs, seems actually to be anything but common-sense.

Of course, the food itself is only a part of the overall management of a hawk, and whilst particular types of food have different properties, those properties will vary according to both freshness, and the physical and mental condition of the hawk itself.

One of the falconer's real skills is to know what to feed, when, and why. Until falconers have those skills, they're probably best to follow common-sense.

Best wishes,

Tony.
Haha, sorry Johny,

I didn't word that very well.

I was trying to say that good hawk-sense seems like common-sense to those who have it.

Best wishes,

Tony.
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  #14  
Old 28-02-2015, 09:15 PM
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John formerly It's Alright Ma
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony James View Post
Hi Johny,

I suppose this is another of those times when I bemoan a lack of, not common-sense, but hawk-sense.

I'm guessing that there's more common-sense than usual regarding what to feed a hawk, as common-sense is likely to lead the falconer down one of two routes.
One, that it's best to feed the nearest approximation to a wild hawk's diet, or two, to take very seriously the advice of an esteemed specialist vet.
To feed de-yolked (and largely skinned, as I do) DOCs, seems actually to be anything but common-sense.

Of course, the food itself is only a part of the overall management of a hawk, and whilst particular types of food have different properties, those properties will vary according to both freshness, and the physical and mental condition of the hawk itself.

One of the falconer's real skills is to know what to feed, when, and why. Until falconers have those skills, they're probably best to follow common-sense.

Best wishes,

Tony.
Common sense vs Hawk sense, I like it Tony, even if we don't get too hung up on the versus aspect,

These lines of yours I liked particularly,

'Of course, the food itself is only a part of the overall management of a hawk, and whilst particular types of food have different properties, those properties will vary according to both freshness, and the physical and mental condition of the hawk itself'

And this too....

'One of the falconer's real skills is to know what to feed, when, and why'

Although I will add (in my boldness ), that 'how' might have been included in such a remark, given the style of some feeding I have observed over the years (and I too can be a clumsy rascal in this regard!). The how of course won't affect what necessarily goes in, but it may affect or influence the relationship, and so then the overall performing picture, you'll know what I mean

Best Wishes

Johny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony James View Post

Haha, sorry Johny,

I didn't word that very well.

I was trying to say that good hawk-sense seems like common-sense to those who have it.

Best wishes,

Tony.
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  #15  
Old 28-02-2015, 09:27 PM
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Angie Rooney
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

Don,t use chicks now as lost one of my best Harris hawks, we had a PM done on him and the result came back a bacteria in the chicks, took some pictures of them for the vet.
PC260035.jpg

PC250032.jpg

Loads of people loose birds of mysterious circumstances and never find out why due to the cost of the PM a chap in Norfolk lost his female peregrine, fat bird in an aviary asked him what she died of he didn't know just put body in freezer, cost too much to pm.
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  #16  
Old 28-02-2015, 09:59 PM
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Tony James Tony James is offline
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johny View Post
Common sense vs Hawk sense, I like it Tony, even if we don't get too hung up on the versus aspect,

These lines of yours I liked particularly,

'Of course, the food itself is only a part of the overall management of a hawk, and whilst particular types of food have different properties, those properties will vary according to both freshness, and the physical and mental condition of the hawk itself'

And this too....

'One of the falconer's real skills is to know what to feed, when, and why'

Although I will add (in my boldness ), that 'how' might have been included in such a remark, given the style of some feeding I have observed over the years (and I too can be a clumsy rascal in this regard!). The how of course won't affect what necessarily goes in, but it may affect or influence the relationship, and so then the overall performing picture, you'll know what I mean

Best Wishes

Johny



Last time I'm listening to you

Haha, cheers Johny,

of course I know what you mean. A dying art sadly (the 'how' that is, not the 'know what you mean').

Best wishes,

Tony.
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  #17  
Old 28-02-2015, 11:23 PM
Alan29 Alan29 is offline
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

Hi Bradley,

You will always get a varied response on this subject. I agree with most of the above a varied diet makes sense. I if you feed a varied diet you will get a well balanced diet. A varied diet will also limit the need to cope a beak (in my opinion).I mostly feed chick and quail with the odd rabbit and pigeon for my falcon. The stronger thicker bones help keep her beak in shape the most natural way possible.

The only thing I have to add here is that in the hight of summer you will see a of posts on keeping a hawk cool/hydrated during the hot summer months. For most falcons/falconers all you need to do is offer a bath. I fly a Lanner falcon and despite having acces to water all the time she will not bath. leaving the yolk in the chick is a good way to make sure my falcon is getting fluid on a hot summer day.

Alan
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2015, 09:38 AM
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Perebrine Perebrine is offline
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

I've seen Falcons really look like they are enjoying the Yolk, almost as if they're drinking it & savouring the taste.
I have Kestrels & their diet is mostly DOC's, they do get the occasional Quail & pieces of Pigeon, during this time of year I try to feed a little more with the breeding season coming up & I tend to find if they leave any food it's usually the yolk & the small hard round bit (Which I believe to be the stomach).

I meant to add if they don't want it they won't eat it.

If I remove the yolk, I just pull the skin back & gently squeeze until a small portion of the yolk comes out & then pop it between my fingers, this will leave some yolk still inside, as I've found if you remove the whole yolk sac, normally the bits connected to it come out with it & you're probably throwing away bits they need.

Ps you have to be careful or the yolk will explode over everything.
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2015, 11:57 AM
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Wink Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

please peeps ...
All the 'toing and froing '.. but you really need to know how long the DoC's have been stored/frozen ....
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  #20  
Old 01-03-2015, 12:50 PM
Shaun Bannister Shaun Bannister is offline
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Default Re: Yolk Sacs In Chicks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony James View Post
Hi Shaun,

during the moult, any chicks I use will be complete with the yolk sac. But during the season, I rarely allow anything but a small amount of yolk, and then generally only when I think it may be beneficial.
In my experience, hawks rarely perform as well when they're allowed large amounts of yolk, and de-yolked chicks make a very good staple diet, when, as you say, it's supplemented with other food as required (required that is, to ensure the best performances and the best of health, rather than to conform with veterinary advice).

Best wishes,

Tony.

I've never noticed or observed a fall in performance of a bird fed yolk,but that may be due to the fact they pretty much always get it so ive no comparison ,i tend to use the yolk as a bonding aspect finishing off the meal be feeding off my fingers and wiping the beak etc before putting the hood on ,all the birds seem to really enjoy this aspect,i should add that i dont use doc's, i use turkey poults which hold together a lot better in the field,if i have any doubts as to the freshness of the yolk i simply remove it in situ,if i want to shave a tad of weight off i'll de-yolk ,too much blood of game is a different matter again performance wise (or should that behavior wise)
On the whole matter of diet and food as has been pointed out common sense applies ,ive met many blokes standing under trees that didnt figure out the impact of a moorhen kill
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