Falconry Forum (IFF)


Go Back   Falconry Forum (IFF) > EQUIPMENT & HOUSING > Bells & Leather Equipment

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-2016, 07:49 PM
Yusteyns's Avatar
Yusteyns Yusteyns is offline
Egg
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 7
Default I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-01-2016, 09:48 PM
John155 John155 is offline
Brancher
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: eastleigh
Posts: 347
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

Hi

Im not sure if there would be one as falconry is illegal in Australia !

Tom Olivia on here would know for sure !

ATB
John155
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-01-2016, 09:34 PM
Talon's Avatar
Talon Talon is offline
Kevin
Passage
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: north west
Posts: 2,652
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

Just get if of the internet in a country were falconry is legal
__________________
Blowing my candle out wont make yours burn any brighter
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-01-2016, 09:56 PM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
Haggard
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Formerly from God's country
Posts: 6,507
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

Things that are illegal must be clarified and defined in law. There is no definition of falconry, nor is it even mentioned anywhere in Australian law so we are coming up with our own definition.

Here it is.......(or something like this, not sure yet)

'Falconry', for our purposes here in Western Australia, is the art and practice and the use of free exercise training and techniques, and the use of related equipment etc, for all legal purposes such as rehabilitation and educational displays.

That is NOT illegal

I get most of my stuff from Mike's Falconry Supplies in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John155 View Post
Hi

Im not sure if there would be one as falconry is illegal in Australia !

Tom Olivia on here would know for sure !

ATB
John155
Statements such as this are exactly why the rest of the World, and many here in Oz think Falconry is illegal. 'Falconry' doesn't only have to mean recreationally hunting with a legally owned raptor.

What makes you think this John? Not getting at you, most people assume the same, but there must be a reason for it. Chees, Michael.

PS. If ANYONE can give me a legal statement on this, and why it may be either illegal or otherwise, I'd be delighted to hear from you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-01-2016, 11:27 PM
John155 John155 is offline
Brancher
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: eastleigh
Posts: 347
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomOlivia View Post
Things that are illegal must be clarified and defined in law. There is no definition of falconry, nor is it even mentioned anywhere in Australian law so we are coming up with our own definition.

Here it is.......(or something like this, not sure yet)

'Falconry', for our purposes here in Western Australia, is the art and practice and the use of free exercise training and techniques, and the use of related equipment etc, for all legal purposes such as rehabilitation and educational displays.

That is NOT illegal

I get most of my stuff from Mike's Falconry Supplies in the US.



Statements such as this are exactly why the rest of the World, and many here in Oz think Falconry is illegal. 'Falconry' doesn't only have to mean recreationally hunting with a legally owned raptor.

What makes you think this John? Not getting at you, most people assume the same, but there must be a reason for it. Chees, Michael.

PS. If ANYONE can give me a legal statement on this, and why it may be either illegal or otherwise, I'd be delighted to hear from you.
Hi Michael

I am sorry I may be totally wrong and you would know much better than I being out there.
I was under the impression that setting any animal upon another in any instance was illegal in Australia.
I believe that I have actually read this on this very forum.

Falconry how I see it is the hunting of wild quarry using a trained bird of prey,
Which would that not be setting one animal upon another ?

I really do appreciate what you are doing out there and understand that you use falconry techniques to rehabilitate and release but is it Falconry in the true sense of the word ?

I am in no way having a dig nor do I want to start a debate, these are just my own thoughts !
Indeed if there are loop holes as such then I too would use them.

ATB
John155
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-01-2016, 05:25 AM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
Haggard
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Formerly from God's country
Posts: 6,507
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

It's all interpretations and definitions John. Is it really possible to 'set' a BOP onto anything, other than within the confines of an aviary or by handicapping the quarry? (plenty of people do that, and my I-phone can prove it!). Sure, we can condition them so that they are likely to react naturally to fleeing quarry, and put up a chase, but 'setting' onto? I'm not sure that would stand up in a court of law, particularly because by attempting to rehabilitate a raptor that's exactly one of the main functions we're making sure is present and therefore what we're trying to get it to do, they hunt to survive, or they die. And anyway I'm not sure that particular terminology is used anywhere in Australian law with regard to raptors...perhaps with dogs though, because that seems possible, in fact likely..

Falconry to me used to be recreational hunting, although how the hunt ended didn't really matter and has never been a measure of what I considered success and enjoyment. I like how Ed Pitcher describes it...it's his way of reaching out and 'shaking hands with nature'. But now, it's just the word I happen to choose to describe the methods I use to rehabilitate Peregrines. What other description is there?

I concede though, that I suppose here in WA at least, that recreationally hunting, as the primary goal of working with a raptor, could be described as contrary to a couple of laws. The first one is that one is not allowed to keep any crown fauna without good cause. I have good cause under Regulation 28a of the Wildlife Conservation Regulations 1970 in that I can keep in captivity any fauna for the purpose of rehabilitating it back to the wild. 'Rehabilitation' by definition means restored to it's former condition and capabilities. So that one doesn't apply.
The other one is Regulation 54,8 which states it is an 'illegal means to take fauna with fauna'. Invasive introduced pest species, which are killed by the million in lots of ways, are not fauna as far as I'm aware and there are plenty of different species from rabbits to camels. There goes that one!

In Qld the official guidelines state that 'Falconry techniques may only be used for the final stages of rehabilitation' or words to that effect. What does that mean other than its OK in those circumstances.

I also am in possession of an email from a member of the protection unit at Parks and Wildlife that acknowledges that incidental kills made during the process of a rehabilitation are acceptable and would be seen as an indicator that the job is being done properly.

Come out and see what I do then ask yourself what it is, if there is another name for it that doesn't p*ss off Parks and Wildlife I'll be more than happy to use it.

Regards, Michael.

I meant that by the way....anyone's welcome here any time.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-01-2016, 05:43 AM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
Haggard
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Formerly from God's country
Posts: 6,507
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

Back to the first question and the reason for the thread.
Although there are no falconry equipment outfitters here in Oz, we are very luck to have one of the World's finest hood makers right here, and I don't say that lightly.

Check them out here http://www.macropusfalconryhoods.com/
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-01-2016, 09:09 AM
RenÚ's Avatar
RenÚ RenÚ is offline
Haggard
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Middle England
Posts: 5,508
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

Michael, some time ago you put up this link
Http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/re...ehabRaptor.pdf
In reading and responding to it (at an earlier stage in your negotiations over there) it seemed clear that it was not so much a matter of challenging the definition of 'falconry' but, rather, the perception of how a falconer worked directly with his hawk and his motives for doing so. The practice of falconry, as per the above link, is rather emotively described as:

'........ practiced for the perverse entertainment of killing other animals for fun or "sport"........'

'........ falconry techniques that relay upon imprinting and starvation.............'

As I understood it, whilst falconry was referred to as illegal it couldn't actually be proven to be so. But it might as well have been because you couldn't have a hawk in your possession without a licence and those licences were only issued to rehabbers who were expected to not use falconry techniques in the rehabilitaion process, since those techniques were perceived to be cruel, unkind and indicative of the perversity of those who practised them.
You, and your group, challenged the misinterpretation of what falconry 'techniques involved rather than the definition of falconry itself. You claimed, and rightly so, that the cruelty lay in releasing a bird back into the wild after injury without assessing its fitness to hunt. You stood firm in how essential it was to use falconry techniques in order to assess its fitness to hunt, because the alternative was slow death from starvation.

So, unless I'm wrong in what I'm saying, then you've lost me with all the re-definition of falconry thing.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-01-2016, 10:06 AM
Shaun Bannister Shaun Bannister is offline
Haggard
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: wales
Posts: 7,090
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

Me too, and I'm on your side!
Seems like your preaching to the converted!
To my mind without a shadow of a doubt the definition of falconry is
"the pursuit of wild quarry in a natural environment "

Anything else is either a means to that end or educational to the uninformed
__________________
what goes around ,comes around
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-01-2016, 11:48 AM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
Haggard
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Formerly from God's country
Posts: 6,507
Default Re: I want to ask where falconry equipment store in australia

It's simply a means to an end sort of thing Rene and Shaun, but not in the way you might think. We don't do falconry recreationally as per your and the accepted definition around the World, that would definitely be crossing the line in the sand although interestingly, no one that I'm aware of has ever been charged or prosecuted for 'falconry'. Regardless, I'd still rather not be the first!

We use 'falconry techniques' to restore raptors. We'd like to see the word 'falconry' kept in our constitution some way or other, and so do the IAF. The way I see it, knowing some of the misconceptions that we have to deal with here from one or two people who have some weight to throw around against us, we need to somehow moderate and broaden what falconry is, to them, in a way which doesn't concentrate on or emphasise the hunting aspect of it, specifically the killing, should there be any, and to include what we do....rehabilitation falconry, or we would have to drop the word or any reference to falconry. That would be taking a huge step backwards the way I see it....they want us to call ourselves 'specialist raptor rehabilitators' but that doesn't give any clue as to the methods we use and if we go with that then we may as well forget trying to get anywhere, or any credibility for falconry, even as a useful rehabilitation tool. The point of the whole thing is to try to eventually pry the thing open and get some acceptance that it's a valid resource. We are still a long way from that right now.

For some reason said persons seem to think that raptors can be restored 'bloodlessly', whereas I personally believe that's falling short and not ensuring they are appropriately equipped to survive back in the wild, particularly those that have had to spend perhaps a year or more in captivity. Is there any falconry at a falconry demonstration? You get my point hopefully.

So, if it were you, please tell me, would you try to moderate the meaning of the word, for our purposes here only, by coming up with a definition as it applies to our circumstances or would you just go with the accepted definition and risk getting nowhere fast, or perhaps you would just drop the whole thing and walk away?

Regards, Michael.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
australia, equipment, falconry, store

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.