Falconry Forum (IFF)


Go Back   Falconry Forum (IFF) > BIRD OF PREY TALK > Broadwings - Buteo > Harris Hawks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:09 AM
Goose-hawk Goose-hawk is offline
Egg
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 46
Default Cables or Bewits?

Hi folks,

Just after a general consensus really on what people prefer.

Cable ties for attaching bells or traditional bewits. Going with bewits myself but are there any advantages to uaing the cable ties?

Atb
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:16 AM
Dean York's Avatar
Dean York Dean York is offline
Haggard
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: bolton
Posts: 10,206
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Don't use cable ties to attatch bells round a hawks leg.

Dean
__________________
Too many cooks spoil the broth!!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:33 AM
Tony James's Avatar
Tony James Tony James is offline
Haggard
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 8,446
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean York View Post
Don't use cable ties to attatch bells round a hawks leg.

Dean
Absolutely not, even if the cable tie is housed within tubing of some sort.

But the most common way cable ties are used to attach bells, is by securing them to the anklet, normally through the eyelet. All very easy and convenient for the falconer, but awkward, perhaps even dangerous for the hawk, because the bell hangs too far from its leg.

Best wishes,

Tony.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:35 AM
Dean York's Avatar
Dean York Dean York is offline
Haggard
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: bolton
Posts: 10,206
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony James View Post
Absolutely not, even if the cable tie is housed within tubing of some sort.

But the most common way cable ties are used to attach bells, is by securing them to the anklet, normally through the eyelet. All very easy and convenient for the falconer, but awkward, perhaps even dangerous for the hawk, because the bell hangs too far from its leg.

Best wishes,

Tony.
That's the one mate. I use button bewits, not everyones cup of tea for various reasons. I have my reasons though.

Atb
Dean
__________________
Too many cooks spoil the broth!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:45 AM
AndyHawks's Avatar
AndyHawks AndyHawks is offline
Andy
Haggard
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Don't bother with leg bells just use a tail bell! Ring louder and last longer! Then I mount Telem on leg
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:49 AM
Tony James's Avatar
Tony James Tony James is offline
Haggard
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 8,446
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHawks View Post
Don't bother with leg bells just use a tail bell! Ring louder and last longer! Then I mount Telem on leg
Given the logic Andy, why put telemetry on the leg?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:52 AM
AndyHawks's Avatar
AndyHawks AndyHawks is offline
Andy
Haggard
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony James View Post
Given the logic Andy, why put telemetry on the leg?
To fiddly on the tail can never get the damn thing off ,I simply cable tie it on eyelet while he's on fist or in box!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-05-2013, 10:57 AM
EddieT's Avatar
EddieT EddieT is offline
Eddie Thorn
Passage
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 1,582
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Using cable ties to attach bells is just plain lazy and in nearly every way possible that they can be used to do this their use is down right dangerous.

Bewits are not that difficult to make and fit, if you have learned how. The laziness is in never learning how. Bewits fit the bell tight but comfortably to the leg, hold the bell firmly and just away from the leg and prevent the bell moving around and bashing the hawk's leg or foot. When they start to loosen off they are quickley and easily replaced.

Cable ties directly around the leg are so blooming dangerous that it should be within the common sense of even the most stupid of people to understand this.

Bells cable tied to the anklet grommets are held so far away from the leg that there is a lot of leverage and movement so that the bell is likely to hit legs and feet and interfere with footing. It is in everyway inferior to using bewits and the only reason why people do it this way is that they haven't learned to make and fit bewits.

The only exception that I can think of was demonstrated by a female pere/saker that I trained who was completely intollerant of the bell and was destroying bewits within hours of fitting them. Fitting a fresh bewit each and every day certainly honed my skills in fitting them! To get over this I did use a cable tie around the leg, however.... The cable tie was within a length of stiff rubber tube (no rubbing on the leg and stopped the bell from moving around) and I had destroyed the teeth on the cable tie closer in than the point at which the cable needed to bite to hold the tubing closed. The cable tie therefore could not be pulled any tighter ever. It was still not ideal as the bell was held right next to the leg and to get the fitting etc just right took more time and effort than making a bewit, so without the extenuating circumstances I am still at a loss as to why anyone would not use a leather bewit.

A few days of using the cable tie/tubing and the falcon soon gave up on pulling at it as it was more resistent to being constantly pecked/pulled (combined with the falcon being entered, which also helped focus attention!) and it was back to traditional bewits. I almost didn't want to type this as I fear that it might encourage someone to follow suit but without the care to alter the cable tie to prevent it pulling tighter than required, however it would be wrong to think that there is no circumstances where an alternative to a bewit may be required. However for 99% of the time if you must fit a leg bell then the ONLY way to do it is with a leather bewit.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29-05-2013, 11:01 AM
Tony James's Avatar
Tony James Tony James is offline
Haggard
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 8,446
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean York View Post
That's the one mate. I use button bewits, not everyones cup of tea for various reasons. I have my reasons though.

Atb
Dean
I've used just about every type of bewit, including button bewits which have a lot to recommend them.
I managed to find a picture of a bewit that was used quite regularly when it was taken (1979), but seems to have disappeared without trace. It was simply a traditional type bewit, attached by a little rivet. They were very simple to fit, and might be worth considering for some people.
I've settled in recent years for a thin traditional bewit.

Best wishes,

Tony.

Http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/attac...1&d=1369821703

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieT View Post
Using cable ties to attach bells is just plain lazy and in nearly every way possible that they can be used to do this their use is down right dangerous.

Bewits are not that difficult to make and fit, if you have learned how. The laziness is in never learning how. Bewits fit the bell tight but comfortably to the leg, hold the bell firmly and just away from the leg and prevent the bell moving around and bashing the hawk's leg or foot. When they start to loosen off they are quickley and easily replaced.

Cable ties directly around the leg are so blooming dangerous that it should be within the common sense of even the most stupid of people to understand this.

Bells cable tied to the anklet grommets are held so far away from the leg that there is a lot of leverage and movement so that the bell is likely to hit legs and feet and interfere with footing. It is in everyway inferior to using bewits and the only reason why people do it this way is that they haven't learned to make and fit bewits.

The only exception that I can think of was demonstrated by a female pere/saker that I trained who was completely intollerant of the bell and was destroying bewits within hours of fitting them. Fitting a fresh bewit each and every day certainly honed my skills in fitting them! To get over this I did use a cable tie around the leg, however.... The cable tie was within a length of stiff rubber tube (no rubbing on the leg and stopped the bell from moving around) and I had destroyed the teeth on the cable tie closer in than the point at which the cable needed to bite to hold the tubing closed. The cable tie therefore could not be pulled any tighter ever. It was still not ideal as the bell was held right next to the leg and to get the fitting etc just right took more time and effort than making a bewit, so without the extenuating circumstances I am still at a loss as to why anyone would not use a leather bewit.

A few days of using the cable tie/tubing and the falcon soon gave up on pulling at it as it was more resistent to being constantly pecked/pulled (combined with the falcon being entered, which also helped focus attention!) and it was back to traditional bewits. I almost didn't want to type this as I fear that it might encourage someone to follow suit but without the care to alter the cable tie to prevent it pulling tighter than required, however it would be wrong to think that there is no circumstances where an alternative to a bewit may be required. However for 99% of the time if you must fit a leg bell then the ONLY way to do it is with a leather bewit.
A good illustration Eddie, that hard and fast rules can be a little short sighted.

Best wishes,

Tony.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_3457.jpg (96.6 KB, 263 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29-05-2013, 11:17 AM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
Haggard
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Formerly from God's country
Posts: 6,508
Default Re: Cables or bewits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean York View Post
That's the one mate. I use button bewits, not everyones cup of tea for various reasons. I have my reasons though.

Atb
Dean

Same here Dean...my reason is that I can't stand the sound of jangling bells so I only put them on for a flight then they are straight off again when I'm done
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bewits, cables

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.